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What if you are wrong?

Posted 45 months ago|47 comments|1,272 views
Written by
Dwayne Johnson
A few years ago I was handed a missionary tract by a smiling old woman who was sitting opposite me on a public bus. She was smiling, motionless at me the whole time, up until I got up to leave at my stop. It is then when she abruptly grabbed my arm and handed me the tract. I smiled back and said thank you as
I walked away. The title of this little leaflet was , "What if you are wrong?" I will spare you the details but the essence of its message was that a persons personal beliefs of what happens after they die may not be the truth and because of that that the reader should espouse a belief in and profess a faith in Christ as an insurance against this day because as the tract's title plainly stated: What if you are wrong?

But that question haunted me for a long time after that despite the fact that I already was a born again Christian whom professed a faith in Christ. I had no doubts about what would happen to me after I die because much as the tract encouraged me to do I already had confessed my sins and believe in Christ. No what haunted me about that question was: What if I am wrong about my Christian faith? We Christians usually push our religion on others with that premise in mind and new converts usually buy into it because they see something wrong with their own religious beliefs.

But Christians are not the only ones who proselytize. Many groups religious or otherwise vie for the attention and life long devotion of it's prospective converts. Many are the people who will ask the Christian that very same question that we ask them: What if you are wrong? What is a Christian then to think? Most Christians I'm sure dismiss that question because we are a self-righteous arrogant bunch whom could never be wrong, right? No, we don't even entertain that idea because that is doubt and fear, and true godliness casts out all doubt and fear, right?

But here is the thing. The other groups argue the exact same point! They say have faith too. They say do not doubt! They say to just believe, but in the end how does one actually know that he or she is actually right? Show me a person alive today whom God has talked too and I will show you a liar. God does not talk to people, that is why we interpret dreams and read the Bible. Because God doesn't talk to people not anymore anyway. So ultimately we can't be for certain exactly what will happen after we die! So all is hopeless then, right? Wrong!

By my estimation what happens after we die is of no consequence to the living. It may be of consequence to the dead but certainly not to the living. However what is of consequence to the living is how the living live their lives. Some where it says that faith without works is dead and perhaps that could be the key to this whole dilemma. Faith should be reserved for the time of death whereas work should be done now. Life has an urgency about it whereas death is still and timeless. What if you are wrong? Encourages doubt about something we have no control over. We should not store up wealth for tomorrow if we have not even eaten today.

Today is open with opportunity for success and failure, for salvation or damnation. Today is the acceptable time and if each one of us considers that as important than the immediacy of living today to its full potential will permeate the membrane covering our frontal lobe and we will truly live free of fear. Nobody has to ask you what if you are wrong because everyday life teaches by experience. Whether you learn from it or not is up to you. You yourself will determine your fate upon death by how you live. So that the question: What if you are wrong doesn't have to haunt you either.
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markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
45 months ago: ...Show me a person alive today whom God has talked too and I will show you a liar. God does not talk to people, that is why we interpret dreams and read the Bible. Because God doesn't talk to people not anymore anyway...

So everybody who makes a claim that God spoke to them today is making a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive (a lie)? That's an astounding and baseless accusation. As such, why should be believe you when it comes to your statement about how God operates? In fact, the question in your title applies equally to you, does it not?
justlogic
justlogic
45 months ago: God talks to me everyday, directs me and shows me many signs, when I have questions or just feel like talking to God, I talk to God and I ask God questions and I get ansewrs.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
45 months ago: What happens after the money is gone is of no consequence to the spendthrift.

I think I get what you are saying, though. You are stating that it doesn't matter what a person believes, as long as they live a good life. Why store up riches for tomorrow (in heaven) when we haven't eaten today (lived life to its fullest).

Just because some people don't listen doesn't mean God isn't speaking.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Mark,
Respectfully I must completely disagree with you because people may talk to God but God does not talk back. We may wish for him to talk to us but he doesn't. If he did then we would all know about it. He simply doesn't. I have no doubts that once upon a time long, long ago that he did speak to people. But I am certain that he no longer does that today.

As for those that claim they have heard God talk to them, yes they are liars! Not delusional, not confused, not inspired but bold faced liars! I, just like everybody else reads the bible and looks for instruction in the lessons of nature and the world around me to learn what is right and wrong but at no time do I claim that it is the voice of God! Nothing that I say has come from God! He did not tell me anything I've read it or observed it or down right fabricated it out of thin air but God did not speak to me through spirit mediums or tarot cards or signs or mysterious wonders. I did not hear the voice of God through messengers or angels.

Nor has anyone else. To say they did is a sheer bold faced lie! Granted some people eventually come to believe their own lies but that does not detract from the fact that it is a lie nonetheless. Do you want to believe what I say? Then do so at your own risk because I am not God's messenger, prophet or preacher. I am just a man who has never seen God or heard God or felt God. I believe in God because it is logical to believe in him. Life makes no sense without him. Humans make no sense without him. Believing in God to me is as logical as believing in the stars in space. But I do not pretend to have heard him speak to me nor do I attribute mushy feelings to him either. The day I hear his voice I guarantee you that you will hear it too. Not a single soul will have to ask another what he said because we will all have gotten the message loud and clear.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
45 months ago: After I read your response and esp. the third paragraph, I can see where you're coming from but I still can't buy your blanket accusation and you reemphasized it with:

...As for those that claim they have heard God talk to them, yes they are liars! Not delusional, not confused, not inspired but bold faced liars!...

As a rational sceptic, I'm of course disinclined to believe somebody when they say they had an audible discussion with a deity, but I'm not disinclined to believe their sincerity unless there's evidence of deceit. I would more likely attribute it to extreme religious fervor and indoctrination, hallucination, drugs, hypnotic suggestion, and neurological disorders before I would consider they're lying and that of course is a possibility.

In fact, I've had people tell me they have spoken to God in the same manner that we would speak and knowing a few of them quite well, I detected not a hint of deceit, and if could have hooked them up to polygraph, I'm quite sure they would pass. Of course, if they were proselytizing, I have asked them to prove it and so far, nobody has but that doesn't mean that they're insincere.

From my perspective, your caustic statement that calls out these people as bold faced liars is an irrational religious judgement.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Mark,

Caustic? Yes! Religious? Definitely! Judgment? Absolutely! Irrational? Not likely! Because I've been "religious" for quite some time and I see the development of a religious experience from beginning to end all the time. Everybody starts out as agnostic, even if it is as a child. It is natural to doubt the existence of what one does not see. It is in fact irrational to believe in God! Believe it or not this is a biblical doctrine.

The bible says that the natural mind is enmity against the things of God. Belief and faith is cultivated over a period of time. Just look at any religious leader that has accomplished good in this world. They all have the factor of time in common, in as much as it took them time to develop faith in a deity they can not see, hear or touch! Now compare that to all the frauds and rip of artist. They in turn emphasize sudden spasmodic conversions.

A trail of deceit and dishonestly inevitably surfaces behind these. Do you think this is a coincidence? This is a direct result of believing the lie that they themselves peddle. Sure they seem sincere, even to the point of tears but it is because they have been given up to their own delusion. It should not surprise you here that the Bible also has a doctrine on that!

You are a committed skeptic. Deconstructing religion has become your faith. At the start all people are skeptics so it stands to reason from your perspective that people wouldn't intentionally lie but people intentionally lie for a far lot less so lying about God should not surprise you.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
45 months ago: MB - *TWEET*TWEET*
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
45 months ago: ...Everybody starts out as agnostic, even if it is as a child. It is natural to doubt the existence of what one does not see....

You've got to be joking with me here Dwayne - small children are of course inclined to believe what they are told - whether it's Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Ghosts, Goblins, x, y, or z religious deity, and magic. Only as they mature, will they rationally discern (e.g. there's no such thing as magic - only tricks, sleights of hand, and illusion) but unfortunately, some never graduate to that point.

...It is in fact irrational to believe in God! Believe it or not this is a biblical doctrine....

I'd agree that it might be irrational to believe in the deities that were imagined by the Bible writers (considering the human like barbarism and sadism attributed to them) but it's not irrational to conceive of a higher power or intelligence that created the universe and or the spark of life. In fact, as I see it, an Atheist and a religious fundamentalist are are of the same cloth in that they both claim to absolutely know what they can't possibly know or prove.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Out of the box,

That interpretation you gave to what I wrote sounds irresponsible. I'm sorry if what I wrote gave you that impression. What I was trying to say is that people tend to establish a belief first and work out the details later. This is wrong. We should work out the details first before establishing a belief. This life is for working not daydreaming. "What if you are wrong?" is a question that detracts the attention from me to someone else. If I establish my belief first and then go around asking that question to others it leaves me with a sense of satisfaction while at the same time I've done little or nothing to make my own life's actions count. Another way of putting it is "Stop minding everybody else's business and mind my own."

The result of focusing on living a useful fulfilling life where I'm not just seeking to give meaning to my life but actually doing meaningful things will ultimately shape the faith of my works. In my opinion it is a proactive approach to faith. People develop complex theologies to explain the mysteries of the unknown and in so doing they neglect the necessities of this world. They think they have laid up treasure in heaven but what they have done is squandered their resources on daydreams. Old folks used to say that an Idle hand is the devils workshop. Well there is truth to how much godliness there is in observing a useful and fruitful life. It by no means replaces faith but hard work definitely defines it!
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Just Logic,

You don't actually hear voices do you? Well, then he hasn't talked to you. The whisper of the wind is just that a wind, not a hidden cryptic message.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
45 months ago: There are many ways of communicating other than words. One thing many people mistake is the fact that God doesn't live here. He is an outsider, and won't come to you unless invited. If you don't believe He can and will communicate with you, why would He bother?

If you knew for a fact that someone you wanted to talk to wouldn't answer the phone or come to the door, would you?
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Out Of The Box,

I'm sorry but that is a bunch of religious boloney! I hear it all the time from people who firmly believed the lies they were told by other misled religious leaders that God would talk to them. There is a Garth Brooks song that says "Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers." If that is the kind of communication you are getting from God then you are delusional. God does not need to wait to be invited anywhere.

He creates and destroys at his own will. If he made your faith possible. He will grow it to fruition also. No invitation needed. Besides it is nonsense to believe that God who created perfect singing voices would result to signs and wonders in order to communicate. That is not God talking. It is wishful thinking.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
45 months ago: "If he made your faith possible. He will grow it to fruition also. No invitation needed. Besides it is nonsense to believe that God who created perfect singing voices would result to signs and wonders in order to communicate."

That's where that pesky little called free will comes into play.

And I believe it was you who was talking about faith. Now, how much faith do you suppose you would need if everyone was awakened by a booming "Good Morning, my children!!"

God talks to those who aren't so busy blithering that they can't hear over the din of the snakes in their head. I'm not going to be as pretentious as to say I know everything about how God behaves. But I do know that when I pray in the manner taught by Jesus, (do NOT use the English Standard Version bible) and put myself in a position acceptable to God through that prayer, God answers my prayers. Not in words, not in lightning bolts, not in a disembodied finger writing on the wall, but in ways obvious to only me. After all, it was a private conversation, why would he shout my business for everyone to hear?

But I'll give you one clue as how to tell if someone is lying about a specific thing that God told them: they are telling you about it. God says that a man who prays in public has received his reward already, and that reward is for others to see him pray and think how pious he must be. God says that to pray you should go into a private place and pray to the Father in secret, and He who sees you in secret will reward you.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Out of the box,
Faith is not necessary to know he is listening. I never said he doesn't hear us. Nor have I said do not talk to him. I simply said that he does not talk to us, not anymore. He doesn't need too. Everything he needed to say he has already said it. The ball, figuratively speaking is now in our court. Faith is needed to act! I know he lives because there is life. I know he cares because that life is sustained. I know there is hope because there is opportunity and so if trust is required of me to take the next step then I will have faith. Why? Because the evidence is all around me that I can make the right choices. The way to understanding has been made plain and Faith or Trust (they mean the same thing) is needed to proceed forward. We must be believers that he rewards those that live justly. See? We don't need to hear him talking. We need now to act!
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
45 months ago: Ok. I'm happy that you have it all figured out, and you don't need to listen for God in your life. Me, I don't have everything neatly arranged. I believe that God is unchanging, and if He talked to his children thousands of years ago, He continues to talk to us today.

But more accurately, I think you should say that you have never experienced God speaking to you, not "God never speaks to anyone." I don't think you are in the position to speak for everyone on this subject.

What if you are wrong?
justlogic
justlogic
45 months ago:
Dwayne, Mosses and a Pharaoh had a similar conversation.
You base my knowledge and experience of and with God, with your own confessed lack of knowledge and experience of and with God.

You said, you are just a man who has never seen God or heard God or felt God.

You said, you have not seen, heard, or learned anything from God.

I have seen, heard and learned from God.

I could tell you I hear voices, see Angels and we have dances and party's every night and the Angels make chili that would knock your socks off, but no response given you, will satisfy you and that may be your whole problem, but your problem is with God not me.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Just Logic,

I've got no problem with God. I believe all that I have understood and try diligently at times and half heartedly at others to be practice what I've learned. God has been my greatest comfort and logic and reason his greatest gift (after Christ of course) What I have a problem with is pompous liars, people who make claims that simply have not occurred! In essence you told me that my doubt confirms your belief. Seriously! You don't see what a bunch of nonsense that is?
Leah Healthnut
Leah Healthnut
San Jose, CA
45 months ago: I believe the person credited to first asking this question lived several hundred years ago (though I don't remember who it was, it was someone of scientific note, such as Galileo or Newton if I'm not mistaken). And "What if you're wrong?" is actually only half of the question.

In your post, you seem to be decrying people for pointing a finger at others and asking a question to make them question their beliefs while resting arrogantly secure in their own. The original question was not asked with this intention.

The second part of the question was, "What if I'm wrong?" The whole point of the question is to point out that the atheist may very well be correct in his assertion that God does not exist, or I may be right in my assertion that He does. The question points to the inevitable conclusions of each assertion: If you are right, I am wrong but in no way in a bad position after I die. If I am right, you are wrong, and you are in for a world of hurt.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Leah Health Nut,

If you read carefully the original rant, The question that haunts me is not "What if you Are wrong ?" but what if I am wrong? Religious Christians don't usually ask themselves this question because they are to busy trying to convince others when they themselves harbor doubts. Doubts that exist because they spend to much time speculating what God has told them instead of spending the precious gift of time on constructive work that will shape their faith and belief to utterly cast out any doubt that might be harbored. In other words a profession of faith does not substitute a working knowledge. Those who have experience in service will most benefit from having faith not those whom just profess it!
Leah Healthnut
Leah Healthnut
San Jose, CA
45 months ago: And, seriously, what's up with the picture? Is that a half-naked vampire?
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: LOL! Yeah, I think it is. I thought the picture was fitting since (to me at least) Vampires represent the condition of a confused human race. We are half clothed, alive but condemned, powerful yet frail, victims of our own conditions which we have created. This particular Vampire seemed to evoke a sense of helpless supplication a condition that I can definitely relate to.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
45 months ago: Had a couple of Jehovah's Wittnesses come to my door yesterday. They asked me if I wanted to live forever. I answered, "Heavens no! Why would any sentient being DESIRE to live forever???" Taken aback, they blinked and repeated their question. I again answered in the negative. I advised them that I had no desire to continue existence after the cessation of my bodily processes. I consider eternal life to be a curse and bestowing it the mark of a supremely malevolent deity.

Then I told them to put me on their "don't call" list and advised them that the next ones to ring/knock are highly likely to be met with a loaded and cocked .40 cal. handgun and a curt "You got a 10-count to clear my property line before I start shooting. 2, 4, . . . "

They promised not to bother me again. They also left rather quickly.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
45 months ago: Aw, man. I love the JW's that come around. Had one nice young lady of about 75 years named Mrs. Peebles that came around every Thursday for about two years. She said she had to in order to secure her salvation. Far be it from me to impede anyone's salvation. And...I'm the same in person as I am here. I love a good discussion/argument. And Mrs. Peebles, well, bless her heart...
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
Auburn, NY
45 months ago: Dwayne,
you do write like Siempre Solo.
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
Auburn, NY
45 months ago: Dwayne,
you do write like Siempre Solo.
justlogic
justlogic
45 months ago: Dwayne, I have a friend that speaks in tongues and says they are speaking Gods word.
I have not experienced speaking in tongues myself, meaning, I have not spoken in tongues. I do not doubt my friend does indeed speak Gods word in tongues.
I do not believe my personal experience is the only true experience.
Could you please define pompous for me.

BadCyborg, what is the proper response to someone approaching you with concern, kindness and compassion. You seem to greet them with aggression, guns and threats of violence. I have noticed this in multiple posts of yours. Are you afraid of something? Or just very angry? I am very curious why you consistently bring guns and violence into peaceful conversations.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
45 months ago: Justlogic,

Your friend may be just fine. Tongues is a legitimate, biblical expression. There are two types of tongues mentioned in the Bible. One if for witnessing to the non-believers and the other is a prayer language.

Some people may not understand it or like it but that is their problem, not yours or your friends.

Don't let other folk's bias sway you. You maintain your faith and conviction and study.

You keep hearing the voice of God speak into your life and ignore any nonsense that tells you that you cannot hear from God personally on your own issues.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
45 months ago: Here's a definition JL -

POMPOUS - Self absorbed or arrogant. Self-righteous and condescending. Disparaging and full of pride and excessive self-importance.

Hope that helps.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
45 months ago: Justlogic asked of me
"what is the proper response to someone approaching you with concern, kindness and compassion. You seem to greet them with aggression, guns and threats of violence."

Actually I was very respectful. I did not threaten THEM in any way. I just made it crystal clear that I did not desire their attention or advances.

Why do you feel competent to judge me? Or "diagnose" me? You know, it is a crime in most states to act as a psychiatrist or other mental health professional without a license.

I do not act this way out of anger or fear. I'm not angry at them nor am I in any wise afraid of them I am merely annoyed. This was the third time I had requested my address be put on the "do not visit" list. It becomes annoying after a while.

I simply do not sugar coat things. I prefer to be entirely - perhaps even brutally - honest with people. While I have no problem with individuals, I do not like people in the aggregate. I consider most of our species a serious waste of protoplasm. But I do not go around bothering people and offering to "share" my worldview. An invasion is an invasion. These cultist wish to invade my intellectual space and impose their worldview upon me. I have tried multiple times to get them to go elsewhere but to no avail.

Ultimately, it is my property. So long as I do not engage in behavior proscribed by the Texas Penal Code, I am free to conduct myself on that property as I see fit.

By the way, your nom de net here seems highly inconsistent with your posts. Not to be too blunt about it, I seldom see much of "logic" in your writing. I see tons of emotion and world record jumping to conclusions, but precious little logic.

Why is that?
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
45 months ago: Justlogic,
Are you aware that there mathematical tools that can determine whether a data stream - even an encrypted data stream - actually contains information or if it is the equivalent of gibberish. This has been applied several times to possible "AHA!" recordings from Project SETI and to date none of the recordings has been determined to be a message.

Back in the sixties this algorhythm was applied to recordings of "glossalalia" - i.e. people "speaking in tongues". In every case - I say again EVERY CASE - the utterances were demonstrated to be gibberish and not language. Dolphin utterances pass the test for language - glossalalia does not.

Also, glossalalia has been reproduced under laboratory conditions by NON-BELIEVERS and the result was indistinguishable from the "authentic article" by believers familiar with it. I would question whether something reproducable in the laboratory can truly be said to be a manifestation of the divine. I have also observed "workshops" where people were taught how to " speak in tongues". No evidence of that exists in the New Testament.

I have been in worship services where people spoke in tongues. I have some observations and conclusions I will not share here.

I once observed a devotional where one would "speak in tongues" while another would "translate". It looked really good until one of my schoolmates stood up and recited the first 10 verses of the Gospel According To John in koine Greek. When the "translator" began a short homily that had nothing to do with the beginning of John, we knew it was a fraud. A pious, well-meaning fraud, but a fraud none the less.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
45 months ago: BC - at least you were able to break it down and state the reasons for your skepticism without being condescending and judgemental. Not everyone apparently has that tact or ability.

That being said, I do believe there are legitimate expressions of tongues based on the NT. It's unfortunate that some feel the need to fake it.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Just Logic,

You've got access to a dictionary, don't you or do you believe I am misusing the word pompous because I don't know what it means? It means self important. People can believe whatever they want. Believing doesn't change anything. Acting upon a belief however does change things. Wouldn't you agree? This is why people consciously or unconsciously claim to hear God, directly or indirectly, because it tends to lend credibility.

Take your friend for example who speaks in tongues. Who understands him? What tongues does he speak in? If nobody understands it then what use is it? Then to say it is a "secret" language to connect the speaker to God is as believable as the Great Spaghetti Monster! Yet if it is sufficiently moving or inspirational then he might get a few converts, no? You are giving him the benefit of the doubt because you claim to be sincere yourself about hearing God's voice and I'm supposed to believe the both of you? Why? Because you said so?

God has not spoken to me! He has not spoken to you! He has not spoken to your friend! There is a collected work of thousands of years of God's relationship with humans. The Bible. It is sufficient evidence for me to know what kind of life God excepts me to live. I don't need to hear God tell me anything. If he wants to talk to me I'm sure he will let me know. He won't rap on somebody's wall…

… and have him speak in a made up tongue at some random preachers church where that minister will charge me 50 bucks to hear what God wants to tell me only to condemn me to an eternal burning hell if I didn't believe this random minister from a random church who claims to have gotten a random message from another random person who claims to have received this message in an unknown tongue, translated from a rapping on a wall.

I get your point. Don't judge people because they may be sincere. I am not judging them. They can profess to believe they speak to whoever they want and I will pass no judgment as to the outcome of their soul. What I will do is be discerning. I will call out folly for what it is when I believe I've seen it and I refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt. I expect no less from others. When they hear me. Dissect my words till you are satisfied that I am right, wrong or not worth the effort.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Amish King,

So I've been told! If I can be frank with you though, I find that a bit disturbing. Because (unless it's a collective prank) I've got quite a few convinced that I am him. I feel like I've got something to prove that I'm not. Because some people like Cypress for example seem like they've got an axe to grind with Solo and I seem to get it because Solo is not around and they think I'm him. Although I do kind of like the attention even if it is because I'm a look alike.
45 months ago: Good to know that you're one of those that question and actually entertain doubt rather than follow blindly.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Implicit,
Doubt is healthy if it is mixed in with action, reason, purpose and character, otherwise it makes one cynical and bitter!
45 months ago: Why are you so certain that God does not talk to people today? Why would he talk to people of the past, and forsake the rest of us. When did this communication stop? Do you not believe in personal revelation, in signs, and that evidence of God and his actions are in the world all around us? Would that not be God communicating with man?
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Communication is a skill that takes time to develop. The more time we spend on it the better at communicating we become. The reverse is true with human communication with God. In the beginning God and Humans communicated freely with each other. But as sin entered the world and got progressively worst that communication diminished more and more until all that is left now is the traces we find in the Bible's holy books. It's true that we can learn a lot about God through nature but that is not God talking that is the lessons written by God that hasn't changed since the dawn of time. Humans today are to corrupt to hear God speak.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
45 months ago: Sorry you feel that way. That's exactly what the enemy would have you believe. That it's too late, that we've come too far, that we can't be redeemed. And I'm sure that is what grieves the enemy the most, the fact that he can no longer hear God's voice, that his rebellion has shut him away from the Light forever.

I won't be deceived by him. I know for a fact that God speaks to and through his children, to carry on His work here on Earth.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Don't go jumping to conclusions Out of the Box. I never said It was to late to be redeemed or that we are beyond God's saving grace. If that were the case Jesus would have returned along time ago. We still have hope. It's called The Holy Spirit. God will still here our prayers through the Holy Spirit which is the Gift of God to us.

God has never cut the line of communication off completely. He just isn't saying anything new. Everything that needs to be said has already been said. If we refuse to obey Gods simple instructions from his written word what makes you think that speaking it out will do any difference? Did it help Moses and The Children of Israel under Mount Sinai?
45 months ago: markbyrn, God has spoken to me many times, I have testified to that fact in my articles, but tell me do you have a plan or a cave at the end of 2012 or a few years later?
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Edward Lee,

31 comments ago Mark Byrne wrote:

"but it's not irrational to conceive of a higher power or intelligence that created the universe and or the spark of life."

And hasn't written since. Is that the statement that you are responding to? Or did you mean to respond to me?
45 months ago: No I was responding to markbyn wrote, .Show me a person alive today whom God has talked too and I will show you a liar. God does not talk to people
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
45 months ago: ...No I was responding to markbyn wrote, .Show me a person alive today whom God has talked too and I will show you a liar. God does not talk to people...

No Ed, that's what Dwayne wrote and I disagreed with his religious based branding of people as liars. If you believe that God has talked to you, than your beef is with Dwayne and to quote a second comment he made, "As for those that claim they have heard God talk to them, yes they are liars! Not delusional, not confused, not inspired but bold faced liars!"

I can understand why you think I might of said that but alas, it's one of your fellow Christian believers and it doesn't surprise me at all. As I've said before, about the only thing Christians universally agree on is how to spell Jesus.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
45 months ago: Dwayne it is good to question your faith. There are about 1000 christian sects which each claim that if you do not believe in their particular fairy tale then you will go to hell.

All religions have some common precepts. They all have something similar to the Golden Rule and they all pretty much agree on what it means to be a "Good Person". Basically help others and don't kill, lie, cheat, etc.

If there is a good and just god she will not punish "Good Men" just because they didn't buy into a particular belief system.

You should concentrate on doing good in the world and that will bring it's own reward. Whether that gets you a big pair of chicken wings after you die is not relevant.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Thanks for weighing in Altruist. I'm not worried at all about the afterlife. One must have faith to believe that God is love and will take care of business when that time comes. The present life however is often wasted. The ultra rich hoard their wealth in toys they don't need and neglect creating infrastructure which they have a responsibility to do. The poor crowed the tables of the rich waiting for handouts. The fat and lazy wait for bailouts instead of getting up and being creative. The whole world is falling apart and nobody gives a BLEEP and then all the worlds religious especially Christians think they have a Get out of Jail Free card by saying I believe in Jesus. Be honest with me Altruist. I know you don't believe in God but if you did, do you think God would call such hypocrites his children?
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
45 months ago: Dwayne how do you know I don't believe in god? I'm an agnostic but I think that the major religions with the possible exception of Buddhism think too small. If there is a god I believe she would probably be very unlike Jesus or his bearded old man, because she wouldn't think some cruel obscure desert tribes were the chosen people as the Judeo/Christian/Islamic religions believe. These religions do more harm than good. A real god would be responsible for billions of planets and millions of other civilizations and wouldn't demand that you stone your kid to death if they gave you some lip.

For that reason I favor Pastafarianism, and I think the 8 "I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts" are far superior to the 10 commandments in providing a guide to life.
http://fsm-consortium.com/more-info-on-t...

I think that half the people in this country have gotten fat and lazy and more people are into materialism and greed than they are into the real teachings of Jesus ""For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in, Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. "

The conservatives especially seem to preach family values yet they would deny the hungry any aid or health care, and would rather place them all in prison, and the short sighted are helping destroy the planet.

Yet despite that, conservatives give more than liberals. Outside of this country people are not nearly as inhumane and most developed countries are doing things to help their citizens and stop the destruction of the earth. There is even a few countries that measure the wealth of the country in happiness instead of spending. http://www.grossnationalhappiness.com/

Sometimes the narrow minded hypocrisy of Americans are depressing, but then when you see the outpouring of concern and care when disaster strikes, it is uplifting. The point is this is only 5% of the people in the world.

It will be interesting in the future to see how the 1.3 billion people in China view life, since officially they are a nation of atheists. (In fact they are very superstitious, and animism and Confucianism (as well as the major religions) is very common).

Still if these kids grow up doing what is right because it is what is best for the community, instead of being coerced to do what is right with threats, I think it will be an improvement.
Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne Johnson
45 months ago: Your response made me think you did not believe in God especially a Christian God, Forgive me! I believe that Christians especially are very narrow minded. They apply their religious lessons to the world around them but not to better the planet and its denizens but to ensure prosperity for an immediate few. I tend to think on the large scale first. And one of the most significant questions I've asked myself about religion is this: If God loves his created creatures including humans why would he place us in an isolated marble in space?

This seems cruel considering how we humans consume each other and everything around us with no regard to the fact that we are all still stuck in that marble. And then it occurs to me that people made in the image of God would think there way out of that dilemma. So how do we think our way out of that marble? Easy! Cooperation. At some point we will either learn to share, cooperate and live in harmony without the labels of class, gender, partisanship or religion or we will all destroy each other. This is the most logical way for humans to take charge of our birthright without destroying all in our path.

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