News & Politics

Rave

Vindication !

Posted 20 months ago|50 comments|454 views
Libyans celebrate end of Gaddafi
Written by
Altruist
Eugene, OR
The deaths of Osama Bin Laden and Now Muammar Gaddafi are a vindication of an American foreign policy that actually works. For too long now we have been the cops of the world. After the fall of the Soviet Union there was no alternative. We were the sole super power.

Often our self serving imperialistic policies often angered our allies and incensed the Arab world. http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.h...

This is a situation no one voted us into and it has caused a lot of resentment. After 9/11 the world was in solidarity with the United States. People in foreign lands said "We are all Americans now". Most nations were willing to help us to track down the terrorists.

From the very first of the Bush administration there was more interest in invading Iraq than in terrorism. In Paul Oneil's book "The Price of Loyalty" President Bush's very first National Security Council meeting is one of O'Neill's most startling revelations.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," says O'Neill, who adds that going after Saddam was topic "A" 10 days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11.

"From the very first instance, it was about Iraq. It was about what we can do to change this regime," says Ron Suskind. "Day one, these things were laid and sealed."

He got briefing materials under this cover sheet. "There are memos. One of them marked, secret, says, 'Plan for post-Saddam Iraq,'" adds Suskind, who says that they discussed an occupation of Iraq in January and February of 2001. http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/02/06/bush-ru...

He really had little interest in the pursuit of Bin Laden and instead pursued a neo conservative agenda that had little to do with terrorism. He invaded Iraq, a nation that had not attacked us, had no terrorists, and had no weapons of mass destruction. As Alan Greenspan said it was about the oil, but there were also personal and ideological reasons. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociop...

The Project for a New American Century laid out the Neo Con agenda of American Imperialism and world domination. This agenda was hostile to Europe, it was hostile to the United Nations, it abhorred the International Criminal Court. The PNAC called for a vastly increasing the military in America, but it said that wouldn't be possible without a new Pearl Harbor. 9/11 was bush's Pearl Harbor. Bush doubled the military budget and passed the Patriot Act severely restricting personal freedom. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociop...

The rest of the world opposed the invasion of Iraq and UN inspectors would have soon proved that there were no WOMD which is why Bush pulled them out and rushed the invasion. Pretty much everyone now recognizes that the invasion of Iraq was a huge mistake. It was a costly diversion from our pursuit of terrorists and the diversion allowed the Taliban to gather strength.

"Jim Lobe's article provides a useful summary of why Bush's focus on Iraq (under the clearly false and fear-mongering excuses of weapons of mass destruction and links to terrorism), instead of tackling terrorism, was "perhaps the single-most disastrous foreign policy decision by a U.S. president in the past decade, if not the past century." This is because it allowed the Taliban to regroup in Afghanistan leading to more expensive military operations and strengthening Al Qaeda's resolve further. Meanwhile, various US actions in Iraq and elsewhere damaged its reputation around the world." http://www.globalissues.org/issue/245/wa...

When Obama came in he switched the focus back onto containing terrorism. While announcing the withdrawal of troops from Iraq he boosted troops in Afghanistan. Obama's redirection has resulted in uncovering several attacks, and the policy was vindicated with the death of Osama Bin Laden. http://swampland.time.com/2011/05/02/pol...

Arab Spring introduced a new period and a new way to fight tyranny to the world. Tunisia and then Egypt were able to successfully remove their tyrants through peaceful protest. When the rebels in Libya tried the same thing, they were less successful. When Qaddafi was getting ready to slaughter protesters, Obama thought that it should be the policy of America to help the helpless. Many people on both the left and the right thought that we already have too much on our plate. Obama thinks that instead of unilateral action, most military action should be done by the international agencies. In the case of Libya all of the pieces came together which may prove to be the new guidelines for military action in the future.

As the president put it: "It is true that America cannot use our military wherever repression occurs. And given the costs and risks of intervention, we must always measure our interests against the need for action. But that cannot be an argument for never acting on behalf of what's right. In this particular country – Libya; at this particular moment, we were faced with the prospect of violence on a horrific scale. We had a unique ability to stop that violence: an international mandate for action, a broad coalition prepared to join us, the support of Arab countries, and a plea for help from the Libyan people themselves. We also had the ability to stop Qaddafi's forces in their tracks without putting American troops on the ground. To brush aside America's responsibility as a leader and – more profoundly – our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are. Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different. And as President, I refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action."

As Vice President Biden said, we only spent $2 billion and we didn't loose one American soldier. And now Libya is free to form their own democracy, and we may get another democratic ally that also has oil.

Now that Qaddafi is dead, other tyrants are looking over their shoulders thinking they will be next. Now the oppressed all over the world have successful models for change that doesn't involve terrorism. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-20...

This small investment that saved lives may have damaged the terrorists more than all of our predator drones, because it is capturing hearts and minds, – Finally!

The right wing was wrong to invade Iraq and they were wrong to oppose helping the people of Libya. As a matter of fact they have been wrong in almost everything they have done.

Perhaps the arm chair quarterbacks who have been criticizing Obama and blocking everything he tries, did not have all of the information that our commander in Chief has. Perhaps these critics are also wrong about Jobs, The Economy, Energy, Health Care and everything else they have screwed up.

Wouldn't it be amazing if we could all pull together and do what is right for America instead of having half the country pulling in the right direction while the other half wants to steer us off the cliff again?
UPDATE - 20 months ago
President Obama was elected because he promised to end the war in Iraq. Now he just announced that all of the troops will be home for the Christmas season. Another promise kept.
EMAIL|FLAG THIS POST
COMMENTS
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Bush pulled out the UN inspectors? You sure about that? My understanding is that Saddam Hussein kicked them out after non-cooperation in the inspections.

"When Qaddafi was getting ready to slaughter protesters, Obama thought that it should be the policy of America to help the helpless."

Hmm let's see....

Recent headlines:
"Yemen Protest: Government Forces Kill Nearly 50 Protesters In Sanaa"

"Bahraini regime kills teenage protesters"

"Syrian government kills 24 peaceful protesters"

Oh this one should be a favorite, seeing as how it was such a popular uprising:

"Egyptian Regime Kills Dozens of Christian Protesters...Monday, 10 October 2011 16:34

The military regime ruling Egypt is under fire after it responded to weekend protests by Coptic Christians in Cairo with deadly force, leaving hundreds wounded and dozens dead.
....The army was very violent in dealing with all these demonstrations ... and they are being very violent as they know they will not be held accountable and will use such protests to increase repression in Egypt," Gamal Eid of the Arab Network For Human Rights Information told the Reuters news agency.....
The Obama administration also offered its condolences to those affected. "Now is a time for restraint on all sides so that Egyptians can move forward together to forge a strong and united Egypt,"....

Obama offered condolences. How special. When an authoritarian government starts murdering its citizens, I thought Obama said it was time for the world to take up arms against that despotic government. You know, for the people.

I guess that only applies to .... what?
20 months ago: Obama offered condolences? Was that because his hands were caught in the (black ops intel) cookie jar with the attack on a convoy by drones without "knowing" who they were attacking? Really? If that is the case I suggest a few dozen drone placements on the southern border of the U.S.

Box. Your list didn't include...

Obama - executes Head of State
Obama - executes American citizen

I wonder when Obama will grow enough heuvoes to walk the street of one of his liberated tribal towns. My guess is never as he can't even walk the streets of Detroit. He will probably blame that on being a "Bears" fan next.

Altruist is not an Altruist. His opinion is proof.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: The left will never admit that the domino effect from the democratization of Iraq is happening right before their very eyes. That was the main objective.

Ghadaffi, the most staunchly Communist leader of the Arab world, is having his death celebrated. My Arab friends are having parties toasting his demise.
20 months ago: Bush Lied - People Died....

Is that not a chant of the writer?
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: The right wing is very good at re writing history to make them look better. Too bad it is all lies. Bush did lie and 4500 Americans died & at least 100,000 innocent civilians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvDe7Z-yk...

OOTB are you blaming Obama for all of the unrest in Egypt, Yemin, Syria, and all of the rest of the region now? Egypt is still controlled by the military which was once trusted by the people. Now they have become increasingly autocratic and repressive.

All of the unrest in the world is because of the Oligarchs, the rich and powerful wanting to keep all power in the hands of the 1% and out of the hands of the 99%. Democracy takes time but there has been incredible movement in the right direction in the past year. All indications are that this will continue.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Al.
I told you eight months ago what to expect in Egypt. Why is it that the current situation isn't getting the same coverage, or practically any coverage at all, as the original ruckus? I would guess that the people who encouraged the people of Egypt to give control of their government over to an unchecked military regime are eating a bit of crow now.

Same thing in Syria. One Communist despot gone, and nobody knows who will assume power, and whether the people will be better or worse off than they were before.

No, I'm not blaming Obama for the unrest in the Middle East. The two go together like peas and carrots. I'm blaming Obama for his duplicity, and his shoddy handling of the situations.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Correction: IN th previous post it should have read "Same thing in Libya..."

But never fear, Yemen is next, and then Syria.
20 months ago: Your update reeks (literally) of your "Hope" for 2012.

PAAAlease spare us from more Altruistic "Hopes" from non-Altruistists.

Your underwear is starting to show its stains.
20 months ago: Albert. Your stains are showing more with your second "cover my Altruistic and Obama" rear.

Educated you are by how many shingles you can show people?

Right.

How "Smart" are you?

Does it not steam you when the low lifes in your world make you eat your own words, politics and theology?
20 months ago: Come on Albert. You can do better than 20 views in 14 hours.

Need my help?
20 months ago: Guess not. So. In the future I'll be reminded not to help your posts get views as I have in the past.

That is until. I get a request from Altruist, Perfect Horizon and Sunny in the same post that needs help. Yep. That would include a public display from all of them in every post that needs views.

Until then. They can die on the vine.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: OTB The people of Egypt will determine their own fate. Probably the same in Yemen Syria etc. I hope we don't orchestrate revolutions any more. I don't know who tells the corporate media what to cover. Violence sells.

TCG I am unaware of how you can increase readership. I naively thought that people just stumbled on the site and read what was there. When we were hooked to Google we could bring in additional readers.

If you know how to rope in more readers why not do that for the entire site? Seems like there are only about a hundred that visit the site. It would be good to gather a lot more but I don't know how and I don't think it fair to only help those who come begging for help. Why not help the entire community and get more female readers while you are at it?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: "Many people act as if there's something instinctive and natural about democracy, that if we just kick the bad guy out, democracy will instantly bloom out of nowhere. As Egypt has shown, democracy; isn't easy – especially in areas that aren't used to it.

The Egyptian people put a lot of faith in the military to guide the transition to democracy. So far, it seems like the military has taken advantage of the people and abused their faith. They've reinstated martial law and clamped down on protests.

Activists, many of whom were the same people chanting in Tahrir Square back in February, have been arrested. More than 12,000 people have been sentenced in military trials – secretive, closed-door trials where defendants have no access to a defense attorney.

There have been reports of the Supreme Council's military torturing protestors, beating them with clubs and electrocuting them with cattle prods. A YouTube video showed Egyptian soldiers shocking two handcuffed men with tasers. Another video depicts a group of riot police beating an unarmed protestor in the street.

The Egyptian people wanted democracy and free government. Instead, it seems that they've traded one dictator for another."
http://www.thedaonline.com/opinion/colum...#.TqKiinLp8wR
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: They are enslaving the people taking away their freedoms and right to life with brut force. What's the answer? Who has the answers? It sickens me. USA can only do so much. It's as if a Hitler copy cat is in power.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Hi sunny.

You can see as well as I how easy it is for people to be tricked into doing the hard work, in the shortest amount of time, for the very people who want to enslave them.
Liberals around the world, who didn't take the time to research who was behind the uprising, applauded the overthrow of Mubarak and just assumed, in their naivete, that justice and democracy would prevail.

It's that hopey/changey thing again. They think that change is always good, and they just hope that it turns out alright. The same thing is happening here, subtle though it is, and the divisions (class, political, social, religious, racial, tribal) used as control tactics in Libya, Egypt and Iraq are being employed here too.
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: Yes, Box. This is what is so frightening that there are country is changing. People are naive and oblivious to this sort of takeover sneaking up on them. They want change so badly they can taste it and fall under the spell of promised freedom. People from other countries that are use to division of class come here and treat Americans in that same fashion of thinking. You can work all your life and experience the greatness of American freedoms and the fruits of our labor until you see the lack of understanding of our ways in the eyes of outsiders who mock Americans and make very big money in our Country. We are being short changed in every way. Little by little if Americans don't get off their couches and fight back, our standards will be lost forever.
20 months ago: Is that a request or a challenge? Where do you think most of your views have been coming from? Would you like another demonstration? Name the time today and watch the view count. Hurry though. I have to leave the house in 2 hours and need your requested time. Yes, you can even request a time from Noon to 4 when I'm not by the computer. Your time request must be posted before Noon (central).
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: Go take your nap.
20 months ago: Your too funny. You forgot to include my stalking you.
20 months ago: Since Al has not requested a "Prove It" time. I'll select 1:00 pm central. I won't be here to watch so let me know how it goes. At noon the view count is 58.
20 months ago: Talk about Vindication! 6:30 PM view count is 134? Can that be right? Who again was it that made that happen?
20 months ago: Yea, Bush's strategy to defeat Saddam was brilliant.

Remember those blue fingers Al?

Huh?

Other Arabs wanted their fingers painted blue too.

Can't twist that one Al.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Earlier this year, the Obama administration had pushed to keep thousands of American troops in Iraq for years to come, on the condition that the US would be granted immunity from any lawsuits resulting from that occupation.

Only only reason he is able to guarantee a complete withdrawal by Dec. 31, 2011 is that the Iraqi government would not agree to the US terms.

And a "promise kept" is only valid when it actually happens, not when somebody re-promises the same promise.
20 months ago: Yep. The reason Obama is pulling out is because U.S. soldiers will be subject to Iraqi Military Code after that date.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: Box is right that people think that just because the vast majority of people agree that something should be a certain way that that will come about in a democracy.

It doesn't. It takes money and organization to get stuff done. That is why in this country and the rest of the world those with the power and money get what They want done and the other 99% are left sucking the hind teet.

The revolution in Egypt was called the Facebook revolution and on facebook the vast majority of people opposed the Constitutional reforms proposed by the Supreme Council. In addition to the majority of people the best known presidential candidates, former Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa and Mohamed el Baradei also supported the people, so the people were confident they would get their way.

The Muslim Brotherhood on the other hand aligned themselves with the Supreme Council and with the military. When the vote came the Councils reforms won by 77% to 23%.

The Muslim Brotherhood is the only organization that is organized and combined with the power structure they won easily. Democracy did not prevail. The rest of the people in Egypt - the 99% need to get organized.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/10...

That sort of thing is what the Occupy movement, and all of the other protests throughout the world are protesting about. Those with the power and money are able to organize and get things done for their benefit and the rest of the people get screwed.

The Tea Party in this country were angry for the same reason but the organization of the Republican party with it's vast propaganda machine and the unlimited funds from the corporations and the rich were able to channel the anger of the Tea Party which was mostly anger at loosing the election to Obama, into a movement that supported what the rich and the corporations wanted most. No taxes on the rich and less regulations. They were able to use the hatred of Obama to convince people to support policies that are harmful to themselves.

The occupy movement reflects the values and policies that roughly 2/3rds of the people in the country want, but they are disorganized and have no money or power behind them. The Tea Party advocates policies that are only supported by about a third of the people but they have all of the power, the propaganda machine, the organization, and all of the money, so they were able to take over the Congress.

The 99% need to get organized for democracy to work here.

20 months ago: Al. Take a good hard look at the picture you included. Any idea where those weapons came from? Take a guess.
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: I wonder if any of them really understand what democracy is all about. It is always a twisted version.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: The US is the biggest weapons supplier in the world. Most foreign aid is in the form of weapons.

On the other hand at least one of the weapons looks like an AK-47 Kalishnakov which was originally made in the Soviet Union but then China made cheap copies. This has become the most popular weapon since it is pretty foolproof and rugged.

Now that we are no longer hated by the people there, we can increase our trade (in exchange for their oil) No doubt more weapons will be part of the bargain, although it would be best if the new government started getting rid of most of the weapons out there.
20 months ago: But Al? The new government has already started getting rid of weapons. What will you say when commercial airliners start falling from the sky from those 20,000 missing SA-7 SAMs? You think they have not already found a home and a target?

What about the missing SA-24's? What else is missing?
20 months ago: Goooodness Gracious Cypress.

If toooo many people think like Al, our country is doomed for the history trashcan.

Holy cow.

Our poor children.
20 months ago: Al,

Is it "Vindication" to murder a POW?
http://rantrave.com/Rant/Gaddafi-capture...
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: Nothing that has been done has ever been innocent and never for the reasons we are made to think. It is always about power and money. There has always been propaganda that is so obvious and people fall for it. Edward R. Murrow had a big influence on broadcasting. Lots of propaganda has always been spoon fed to the public. The people are lucky to survive these political embattlements and secret espionage capers that are carried out. Is the truth ever really known what is going on between the almighty powers of the world? Withdrawing the troops, and standing up there on a podium and speaking as if it is done for the people is not exactly what I would have liked to hear. He should of just come out and said the real reason because it is found out anyway. I suppose we are fortunate at least that the troops are called back home. Makes you wonder what uprising is next that US will get involved with and our troops will again be called to meet whatever it will be. People are used as pawns. I don't have much sympathy for Gaddafi, Saddam, or any of thost that are power crazy. They live by the evil sword and die by it.
20 months ago: Murder POWs....

If there are suspicions that Gaddafi was summarily killed, already raised by Amnesty and UN human rights officials, they have been deepened by the death, too, of his son Mo'atissim in even more dubious circumstances. He was filmed alive but wounded smoking a cigarette and drinking from a bottle of water, before the announcement that he also had died.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3qomz8a

sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: As long as there are weapons floating around out there and used for bargaining power and threat, there will be wars. Weapons are meant to kill. It's crazy.
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: I think there is some truth in everything that is said here.
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: This is my gift to all of you today.
And to Paper if you are seeing this. As I said the little bird looks up to his freedoms.
http://www.andiesisle.com/creation/magni...
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: There may be missing missiles and the Libyans may have assassinated Qaddafi and his son. That makes me glad that we never had combat troops on the ground there.

This way the Libyans are responsible for their own fate and only the total nutjobs would think of blaming Obama or the US.

I am glad we won't have another ignorant Texan cowboy in charge of our military any more. We should have learned a lesson from the last one.
20 months ago: But Al. we did and still do have troops on the ground in Libya. They might be "Black Ops" but they are still "Troops on the Ground".
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: A US drone drove Qaddafi into the drainage ditch where he was captured.
20 months ago: Hey Box. I have a question. Which would you prefer?

Waterboarding by Bush with a Doctors supervision?

A bullet to the head by Obamas hit squad?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Hmmm, that's a tough one, ... a real puzzler......auh, give me a minute to think about it.....................................................................can I just get put in some medium security prison in upstate New York? No? Hmm, well then I'll take the waterboarding. At least then I'll have a chance to speak for myself, unlike Qaddafi.
20 months ago: But Albert? Obama and his foreign policy is "Vindicated" by the Assassination of a unarmed, wounded, POW Head of State.

You said it. You can't take it back. Hilarious Clinton is even giddy when talking in front of cameras.

You for one need to rethink your selective "passive" theology.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: As I said only nutcases would blame Obama. The Libyans did this and it was a NATO air strike that stopped the convoy and forced Qaddaffi into that culvert.

Unlike Bush, Obama respects the rule of law and would have preferred that he stand before the International criminal court.

Your guys are calling for military action in Syria now. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...

I hope that if Obama bows to pressure from the right, that all of the same conditions: an international mandate for action, a broad coalition prepared to join us, the support of Arab countries, and a plea for help from the Syrian people themselves, No American troops on the ground, are in place.
20 months ago: Al,

"Only nut-cases would blame Obama" ...what do you think of leaders of a country praising the illegal murder of a prisoner of war? You call Bush an ignorant Texan, and praise the likes of Hillary... that's Hillaryous!
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Here is how it works.

You never do what is the right thing, like toppling the regime of a madman who has already killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, unless it is popular, easy, safe, or self serving.

Here is a list of the countries that sent troops to Iraq during "Bush's War".

United Kingdom: 46,000 invasion (withdrawn 5/11)
Australia: 2,000 invasion (withdrawn 7/09)
Romania: 730 peak (deployed 7/03-withdrawn 7/09)
El Salvador: 380 peak (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 1/09)
Estonia: 40 troops (deployed 6/05-withdrawn 1/09)
Bulgaria: 485 peak (deployed 5/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Moldova: 24 peak (deployed 9/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Albania: 240 troops (deployed 4/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Ukraine: 1,650 peak (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Denmark: 545 peak (deployed 4/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Czech Republic: 300 peak (deployed 12/03-withdrawn 12/08)
South Korea: 3,600 peak (deployed 5/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Japan: 600 troops (deployed 1/04-withdrawn 12/08)
Tonga: 55 troops (deployed 7/04-withdrawn 12/08)
Azerbaijan: 250 peak (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Singapore: 175 offshore (deployed 12/03-withdrawn 12/08)
Bosnia and Herzegovina: 85 peak (deployed 6/05-withdrawn 11/08)
Macedonia: 77 peak (deployed 7/03-withdrawn 11/08)
Latvia: 136 peak (deployed 5/03-withdrawn 11/08)
Poland: 200 invasion—2,500 peak (withdrawn 10/08)
Kazakhstan: 29 troops (deployed 9/03-withdrawn 10/08)
Armenia: 46 troops (deployed 1/05-withdrawn 10/08)
Mongolia: 180 peak (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 09/08)
Georgia: 2,000 peak (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 8/08)
Slovakia: 110 peak (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 12/07)
Lithuania: 120 peak (deployed 6/03-withdrawn 08/07)
Italy: 3,200 peak (deployed 7/03-withdrawn 11/06)
Norway: 150 troops (deployed 7/03-withdrawn 8/06)
Hungary: 300 troops (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 3/05)
Netherlands: 1,345 troops (deployed 7/03-withdrawn 3/05)
Portugal: 128 troops (deployed 11/03-withdrawn 2/05)
New Zealand: 61 troops (deployed 9/03-withdrawn 9/04)
Thailand: 423 troops (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 8/04)
Philippines: 51 troops (deployed 7/03-withdrawn 7/04)
Honduras: 368 troops (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 5/04)
Dominican Republic: 302 troops (deployed 8/03-withdrawn 5/04)
Spain: 1,300 troops (deployed 4/03-withdrawn 4/04)
Nicaragua: 230 troops (deployed 9/03-withdrawn 2/04)
Iceland: 2 troops (deployed 5/03-withdrawal date unknown


Then on the other hand you have a madman like Qadaffi, who might have killed thousands of his own people if left to his own devices. Here is a list of countries involved in that regime change.

Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Qatar, Spain, UK and US and seven other counties with extremely minor roles. The British and French led the bulk of the effort, with NATO controlling only the no-fly zone for a short while and the arms embargo. The targeting of ground units remained under the control of the coalition forces, namely France, UK and US.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: So you have 40 countries that backed the toppling of the murderer Hussein, and 17 countries that were involved in the toppling of Qadaffi.

Hussein was hunted down, captured, and went to trial and summarily executed with respect and dignity, legally.

Qadaffi was hunted down, captured, and murdered on a dusty road without due process.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: That's not what I would call vindication. Hey, but at least it didn't cost much, and we didn't put any Americans in harms way. So what if we are now complicit in breaking international law? The end justifies the means, right?
sunny2
sunny2
20 months ago: He should of been treated like a POW no matter what or who he was.
It is difficult to say that, but that would have been the correct way.
I wonder what is next.
20 months ago: Al I am going to have to call you out as a hypocrite...

You said... "The deaths of Osama Bin Laden and Now Muammar Gaddafi are a vindication of an American foreign policy that actually works" ...but in a response to an earlier rant of mine you also said... "It is neat though that wit the internet we can see what other countries are saying. Wish a major station would broadcast Al Jazeera though" ...I just spent a few days with a couple of middle-eastern fellas that broadcast Al Jazeera and they think what the USSA is doing is terrorism!
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Meme-World-...

I seems most all of the world is giving place to the US because it carries the biggest stick (for now) and have to walk on eggshells by choosing their words carefully around this bully. They said that Gaddafi just wanted his money back from the ones he lent it to.... furthermore, they said if Gaddafi was such a bad guy, why wasn't he taken out years ago? You can't have it both ways...
20 months ago: Really Truthie? Al is a Hypocrite? Isn't it Al that alwarys blames Bush. Isn't Al against U.S. waterboarding? I wonder if Al has the guts to look at this info which containes very graphic pictures of what his Islamic brothers do to POWs before the final bullet to the head without due process.

Patriot Act Al?

Hilliary fell short in her comments and laugher... We know what she was thinking though...We came, we saw, (we sodomized), he's died...Hillaryious laughter...

Come on Al. Got the guts? Here is the link...Warning very graphic...

http://tinyurl.com/67fdvof

Post a Comment
Sign in or sign up to post a comment.