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Uh, Houston? We have a problem.

Posted 30 months ago|18 comments|1,716 views
Written by
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
The reason I am putting this in a Rave, and not a Rant, is the fact that this is a good place to acquire information away from the spin that the left and right media put on things. Hats off to all RantRave-ers.

The purpose of this particular post is to get information, not give it. So if you feel so inclined, dig around and get the skinny on these questions, which I feel are very important.

What is the Apollo Alliance, and what are its ties to Obama's green czar, Van Jones, a self-professed communist and black nationalist, who was put in jail for violence during the Rodney King riots.

What are the Apollo Alliance's ties to Wade Rafky, of the Tides Center and the Tides Foundation.

What is the link between the SEIU, the labor group pushing healthcare reform, Acorn, and the Apollo Alliance?


Why is the Apollo Alliance claiming that they wrote the Obama Recovery Act(stimulus bill) in 2008, before Obama was even sworn in as president? Why did Harry Reid thank them for writing it? Why are private groups writing legislation? Why are they writing energy legislation for individual states?

John Podesta, CEO of the Center for American Progress, is also on the board of directors for the Apollo Alliance.

Why is Obama attempting to distance himself from these groups?

These are questions I think may be important.
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30 months ago: I have got to find out who you're getting your facts from, so I can preempt some of this for you. You're being roped into the latest conspiracy theory that proves, proves I tells ya, that Obama is a socialist/communist/terrorist/whatever... at least until it's debunked and the next one comes along.

Let's start with Van Jones. I'm not sure why this falsehood won't die, but Van Jones wasn't put in jail for "violence." He was arrested during a police sweep of a protest, along with dozens of other volunteers acting as legal monitors - you know, watching the police to make sure they don't do anything illegal themselves, like arrest people without cause. He was never charged, and the police were forced to release him less than 4 hours later.

As for the communism thing, what is it with you guys about people being unable to change their minds? Is it "once a communist, always a communist, regardless of what else you spend the rest of your freakin' life doing?" Are you even aware that he's been writing books espousing green *capitalism*? Sigh...

OK, anyway, to answer the rest of your questions...

* The Apollo Alliance is a joint venture between a bunch of environmental groups, unions, and businesses to push for alternative and green energy sources.

* Van Jones is on its steering committee, along with some other notables like Maggie Fox, from the Sierra Club.

* I'm assuming you meant Wade Rathke? There's no direct connection, except in the fevered minds of conspiracy theorists. Rathke helped found both ACORN and the SEIU Local 100, the branch of SEIU that operates out of New Orleans. That association is probably where the imagined connection comes in; the national SEIU has voted to endorse the Apollo Alliance, because they have an interest in green jobs.

(To be continued...)
30 months ago: * So that's the extent of the connection between SEIU, ACORN, and the Apollo Alliance. That, and they probably all like each other. Environmental and labor advocacy groups tend to do that, in much the same way there is overlap between conservative interest groups.

* I can't find any evidence the Apollo Alliance wrote the stimulus bill. They have proposals for additional stimulus spending that results in green jobs. Do you have a link to where they make that claim? And please, no right-wing blogs *saying* they make that claim, I'd like to see the original statement the Apollo Alliance themselves made. In any event, I'm sure by the end of November, Obama was already thinking about and requesting input on how to deal with the economic crisis from various sources, so I wouldn't actually be surprised if groups that are members of the Apollo Alliance offered suggestions.

* Again, not finding any evidence of Reid thanking them for writing the stimulus bill. Maybe they wrote parts, and he thanked them for that. Which happens all the time, by the way. Might as well ask why oil executives got to write Bush administration energy policy.

* Can't find anything about Obama "distancing" himself from the Apollo Alliance, except on right-wing blogs. Near as I can tell, there's not much of a connection in the first place. They're just another interest group among many.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: Van Jones:
"I met all these young radical people of color -- I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was, like, 'This is what I need to be a part of.' I spent the next ten years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary. I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th. By August, I was a communist."

Here is a project page from the Tides Center (Wade Rathke of Acorn served on the board until this year), the parent group of the Apollo Alliance.
http://www.tidescenter.org/projects-impact/project-directory/project-directory-single/project/apolloalliance/index.html

This page marks the recovery act as one of their achievements, along with others:

http://apolloalliance.org/about/achievements/

So, Obama has nothing to do with Acorn, the Tides Center, or Van Jones, who sits on the board of Apollo Alliance, which in turn organizes and directs Acorn, SEIU, Greenpeace?
30 months ago: Uh, yeah, so what? Everyone knows he spent some time as a communist. In that interview, he's talking about what he used to - past-tense - believe. Did you even read my comments? The guy writes in favor of green private enterprise now. Unless you think he's lying for some reason, and is still secretly a communist, that's old news.

And yup, I'm familiar with the Tides Center. Again, did you read my comments? I pointed out that Rathke was a founder of ACORN. I haven't found information about him being associated with the Apollo Alliance, though.

As for those URLs, none of them reflect what you wrote: "Why is the Apollo Alliance claiming that they wrote the Obama Recovery Act(stimulus bill) in 2008, before Obama was even sworn in as president?" They're claiming credit for policy proposals, not writing the legislation themselves.

Finally, of course Obama has something to do with all these organizations peripherally. They're environmental, social, and labor interest groups. He's going to listen to them a lot more than, say, the NRA. You're looking for some kind of evidence of sneaking around that isn't there. You say, "But Wade Rathke is associated with several different groups that Obama has been involved in," and I say, "Yup." You say, "Why are they trying to hide those connections?" and I say, "They're not. The connections are slight and tenuous, but they're there, much like you'll find overlap between, say, Greenpeace and AFL-CIO. So what?"

Wake me when you have evidence of anything more interesting than "these people know each other."
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: Yes I did read your comments, however your say-so alone is not sufficient, however hard that may be to fathom.
I realize your own arguments make perfect sense to you, and you can't imagine someone not seeing things your way, since after all, your way is the only right way. You should try looking over the fence once in a while and question your own belief structure, the way all true thinkers do.
30 months ago: The reason I asked wasn't because I feel like my "way is the only right way," but because it appeared you hadn't actually read them. You brought up the quote about communism after I specifically pointed out that he's not a communist and hasn't been for a long time. Now, is he a liar when he says he's not a communist? That's a different question.

But it made me feel like I was talking to a broken record when you did that. You said he's communist, I said he used to be and isn't anymore, and you rebutted that with a quote that... proves he used to be. It made me genuinely wonder if you'd missed that part of my comment.
30 months ago: Which side of the bacon is cooked more?
OOTB will get it. HNN will ponder.
30 months ago: Don't you dare answer OOTB! Let's see if HNN can come close.
30 months ago: I sleep better when they are on their heels.

Heynn, you're good for hanging in there.

Where are all your comrades?
30 months ago: OOTB, just curious, why the interest in Obama's associations with liberal and progressive interest groups? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it - on the contrary, I'm glad people on both sides of the aisle want to know who the politicians are connected to. But to me, it sounds like a hunt for another conspiracy theory, when the Apollo Alliance is pretty open about its goals. Where's the malfeasance, here?
30 months ago: I notice that HNN won't lay out an answer to the question

Which side of the bacon is cooked more?

It's because there are three possible answers and each will explain to the world your own philosophy.

So, HNN which side of the bacon is cooked more?
Come on guy it's simple question.
30 months ago: TCG, here's a fourth answer: Which side of the bacon is cooked more has nothing to do with the Apollo Alliance and Obama's connections to people involved in it. I'm a lot more interested in whether there are any accusations of malfeasance or shady dealings than bacon, however delicious it might be. I'm a lot more interested in why the outright lie about Van Jones' arrest persists in the right-wing blogosphere than I am in tasty pork products. I'm a lot more interested in what the connections between various liberal groups mean to conservatives than I am in the other white meat.

Although I will admit, now I'm hungry.
30 months ago: HNN there might be other realms or shades to the answers but there are only three that are real.

There is only one correct answer though.

Neither side is cook more because is is the same piece of bacon.

That would be the American answer.
30 months ago: You've gotta be pulling my leg. I wanna talk issues, you come up with a weirdly jingoistic homily about bacon? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the stuff, but... bacon? Could we please talk about something on-topic?
30 months ago: You've gotta be pulling my leg. I wanna talk issues, you come up with a weirdly jingoistic homily about bacon? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the stuff, but... bacon? Could we please talk about something on-topic?
30 months ago: Democrat
American
Republican

There is always on side that gets more heat but both seem to forget they are all one and the same entity. No matter who is in power by statistics the middle is always forgotten even though it is the core of both sides. The sides need to realise that only make up a percentage of the whole.
30 months ago: Democrat
American
Republican

There is always one side that gets more heat but both seem to forget they are all one and the same entity. No matter who is in power by statistics the middle is always forgotten even though it is the core of both sides. The sides need to realise that they only make up a small percentage of the whole.
30 months ago: Deja Vu all over again.

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