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The Expansion Theory

Posted 18 months ago|45 comments|1,136 views
Where is the expansion expanding into?
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Written by
Paper Tiger
England
Expansion Theory

The expansion theory of the universe states that the Galaxies found throughout space are flying away from each other, as if from an explosion 'the Big Bang'. Nothing too difficult so far. Astronomers can measure the speed at which the galaxies are travelling by studying the red shift in their light. This I can still get my head round.

They have found that this speed increases by about 15 miles for every extra million light years of distance. This roughly equates to, one light year equaling 8 million million miles. I know this is called Hubble's Law. This all began 15,000 million years ago, again I have no problem understudying that also.

What I don't understand is what the universe is expanding into? If it is expanding into somewhere else, then the somewhere else must be getting smaller.

I also don't understand what caused the 'Big Bang'. Was there a place for the 'Big Bang' to go off in the first place? If there was where did it come from?
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COMMENTS
18 months ago: If you first got a really really vast amount of space. And then you got a particle that explodes so hard that it continues to expand and expand for billions of years, then the theory kind of makes sense.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: It does not matter how big or how small something is. The principle is the same. If something is getting bigger, then it is taking up more space than it first did. The only way it can do that is to take that space from something else, so that something else is getting smaller. If the accomadating extra space is smaller, then infinity does not exist. If infiity does not exist is there is an end of space. What happens when you get to the of space? Do you hit a wall? If that is so whats behind that wall. Explosion and expansion are cause and effect.

I am goingfor a lay down for an hour.
18 months ago: PT,

Amen! "cause and effect" and ID Intelligent Design. You are proving that infinity does exist... and if you have design and order you have a designer and organizer.

I find it interesting that the reference in the Bible uses a verb "stretches" when describing the heavens... like it is still stretching... and how true the Earth is hanging on "nothing."

"He stretches out his heavens (or Northern sky) over empty space. He hangs the earth on nothing. Job26:7
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Hi Mr T
5000 years ago, civilisations used to answer all there unanswerable questions by making up a god. Some races worshipped gods of the sun moon, and anything else they could not explain, and build henges, shrines to respect their ignorance. Because I understand why the sun comes every morning the science is common knowlege so there is no need to build a shrine. I have to believe that infinity exists, because that leaves my mind open and enables me to question what I do not understand.
18 months ago: Paper.

Pretty cool stuff, huh?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Sure is Red
18 months ago: Nice post.
18 months ago: Also, as long as you say ANYTHING other than a Supreme Being possibly brought the universe into existence you can keep your tenure at the univiersity and continue to get grant money. What a wacky world we live in.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Hi Huey
By asking the questions that do not always apply to religeous intervention. You can still find a God, by a process of elimination. You can get a point across and still get grant money
18 months ago: True, but not if its a point they don't want to hear. You say the wrong thing even once, you can lose the tenure and grant money.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Maybe they think if you do question the Almighty too many parents may think their offspring are being taught by an atheist. You said to me once Huey that education is very important to you, after all this time I figured out why.

18 months ago: We never arrive in this life to a point of total understanding of the eternal.

However as we grow there are certain things that we should look to settle along the way. We live, we love, we learn.

Strong convictions from an established heart.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: It's a bubble. Most likely Hubba Bubba, from whence the Hubba telescope gets its name.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: Seriously, the universe is full of dark matter. The stars we can see on the edge of the observable universe are already 14 billion years gone from where they appear to be, to us. We see what they looked like 14 billion years ago. We see where they were 14 billion years ago. So, these stars that we see now that are 14 billion light years away were actually in that position 14 billion years ago.

Science says the universe is 14 billion years old.

Does anybody see where I'm going with this?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: Before you go saying that matter traveled faster than the speed of light in the moments after the "big bang", remember that it is theoretically impossible.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: I believe the speed of light is our Holy Grail of measurement. If we fully understood what the speed of light is, how we could use it, we would probably realise it is the begining of a dimension that would lead to another dimension. I cannot believe there isarestriction on time or speed.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Hi Box
Matter is all the matter in the universe. There are several states of matter. Astronomers can only detect matter in the universe directly if it gives off light or some other form of electric radiation. The matter that cannot be seen in this way is called dark matter. It can also be detected by it's gravitational pull on other things. Because we have limited tools to explore matter, and there is alot o fdark matter around. But because we can only study dark matter by using something tangable, it does not mean that all dark matter is the same.

Yes I can understand the 14 billion year time delay for light to reach us, and now you have given me a head ache.
18 months ago: Explosions do not create order. Light can be created in motion. Nothing cannot create something. Chance has no creative power whatsoever.

Bottom line: This universe did not always exist and it did not jump into existence by itself. This is not an accident. It is on purpose.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: What about randomness, if a fly splats on my winscreen is this part of purpose? Sorry to sound trivial, but if there is a reason and purpose for the universe, then that has to include everything in it. If it didn't, the big picture could be changed by something very small. If you agree that everything is part of the a plan, then by default we have no free will. We cannot have free will in a strutured set of plans as that would lead the plans in diferent directions hence chaos.
18 months ago: The big picture can be changed by something which is seemingly very small. What part are we playing?

I commend you. Most are not even thinking in terms of an eternal purpose. What difference does that make? Can I touch it, smell it, see it, test it? Does it give me what I want? No? Then it doesn't matter or it doesn't exist.

Does it require anything of me? Yes. Then not only does it not matter, but I rebel against and am hostile to the very idea it.

Self determination is very real. It is not the denial of freedom; it is the essence of it.
18 months ago: PT,

"We cannot have free will in a strutured set of plans as that would lead the plans in diferent directions hence chaos"

Unless there was a controlled forum for free will to be demonstrated (Earth)... allowing a certain (prescribed - controlled) amount of TIME and SPACE before it all fell apart. We do have free-will, we do have chaos, and we do have a certain amount of time... in this state... that means even our free-will was taken into account by the Creator.

However, if people choose to exercise free-will lived out in mutual agreement on eternal principles... no chaos. It only becomes chaos when there is a deviance from such a plan... he Word of God calls that sin.

Romans 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to seven angels. Go your ways and pour out the vials of wrath upon the earth.
Revelation chapter 16.
Is this what happens when we use our free will?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Self determination is very real. It is not the denial of freedom; it is the essence of it.

Then why in 'the big picture' is it easier for some people to be better than others. Is it not easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a poor man? The poor man has to stray sometimes to put food on the table, while a rich man can do it with ease. A poor man is more likely to break the rules than a rich man, to achieve the same goal. Unfortunally our society would respect a person more if that person donated 1000 dollars which to him means nothing. But id apoor man saved all his life and gave 100 dollars, society would praise the rich guy. I have mentioned this before. In a local church, when the television is telvising the service there are special seats for 'important people' the dirt class have stand outside their normal place of worship as there in not enough room. Is heaven going to be likethat?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: When you confuse religion with God, it may seem that way. The fact is, Jesus said the exact opposite of what you said.
18 months ago: PT,

"A poor man is more likely to break the rules than a rich man, to achieve the same goal"

Not so, I have traveled through the poorest places in Central America and it is the opposite. The poor know what it is like to starve, so they have compassion... The rich on the other hand are greedy and have no pity on anyone and break every rule they can get away with.

As to some "churches" they would make Jesus sit outside! Again, not Christian.
18 months ago: Like Box said.

"Is it not easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a poor man?"

No, it is not. The rich man has the tendency to trust in his riches rather than in his Lord (Matthew 19). The poor man is less likely to do this yet a poor man can be just as, if not more greedy than the rich. There is neither inherent virtue in being poverty stricken nor necessary blessing in having riches. Both can operate under a curse.

Our society acts on a totally different value scale than the Kingdom. Unfortunately the local church has become relativistic just like the society around it. To the point in it's entirety it does not properly represent THE Church.

"Our society would respect a person more if that person donated 1000 dollars which to him means nothing. But id a poor man saved all his life and gave 100 dollars, society would praise the rich guy."

I'm glad the LORD is not like that. Mark 12:38-44.

Wheat and tares grow together until harvest. Sheep and goats are eventually separated.

You quoted Spurgeon on at least one occasion. Do you listen to or read his sermons on the regular? Just curious.

There will be no partiality in the kingdom based on class, that was rebuked on earth (James 2:1-13) so I have total confidence that it will not be the case in eternity.
18 months ago: TB gets it too.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Hi Box
I know Jesus said it the other way round. My point is, is that it is easier for a rich person to do good deeds than it is for the poor person. The rich have the ability to delegate time so they can free up their time and do some rightious things. A person on minimum wage would find it more difficult to create spare time as he does not control his destiny.
A poor person with a family may feel obliged to give money to a church and by doing so he and his family have a tangable drop in their life style. A rich person could give stuff away and would be thought of as a saint, but it makes no difference on their life style whatsoever.

Whichever way you look at it, it's easier to be good when you are wealthy.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: 'Unfortunately the local church has become relativistic just like the society around it.'
But are we not the church? The man with the collar is just the manager? And Box is spot on that I confuse God with religion, are we not made in His image?
18 months ago: Who starts and perpetuates the wars? Who exploits the poor? Who attempts to control the world?

Wealth is no virtue. If anything the temptations increase in direct proportion to wealth. Man has the tendency to TRUST in the riches rather than the God Who gives the ability to produce it.

That is why Jesus said what He said.
18 months ago: I don't like religion, because it is deceptive. You can learn from it but it is an illusion and often times very manipulative. It is man's attempt to make himself pleasing to God. You either end up believing a lie or end up a hamster on a treadmill.

Yes, we are all made in His image, but that image has been corrupted by sin and we all need redemption. That redemption which is a work of God and not of man.

What about Spurgeon? I'm still curious.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Spurgeon writes it as it is but I am not a follower. Jesus died on the Cross for us and that was a truely unselfish thing to do. Without sounding like a crank, the way I see is that this, and worse is happenening everyday to people who could be helped, and they do not get a mention. My personal view is that some people use religion as an excuse not to get involved when somebody really needs help. ''I gave to this, I give to that, why should I worry about starving children I give to charity I am doing my bit, so his civil rights have been abused etc. etc. etc.'' Sadly I still remember the old black and white films where good was always the winner. My hero would by John Wayne, not some black hearted devil.

To me that sort of religion would justify walking past somebody being beaten on the street, right in front of you, and that person could walk past, appease their consience, and sleep at night with no shame or remorse because he pays for a police service to do that job. That is how they see religion, I've paid its not my problem.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: I's easier to be perceived by the world as good if you are wealthy. And the wealthy will receive recognition from the worldly.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Hi Box

About it being easier to get to heaven if you'r poor? The Fat cats tell you all this so you leave their wealth alone.
Content Removed by Huey Newton
18 months ago: Yeah, but you start with a really, really vast amount of space. Then, after you got all this space full of nothing at all. Then you can have this expanding theory because the particles within the vast, space are moving away from each other. But that isn't what the theory says. Instead, the theory says that Space, Matter and Energy are all expanding. Bosh. Space was there first. Then Matter and Energy, it is the matter and energy that we can measure. We got no real clue about whether the space was already present, or not.
Abelink
Abelink
Carbonado, WA
18 months ago: There is no such thing as nothing, if the universe is expanding then it is moving and going someplace. Sooner or later, you will understand that space and time is infinite. When you can understand the meaning of infinity, you will understand that everything exists. It is the only logical answer.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: If everything exists then nothing must exist.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: That's what the astrophysicists are trying to say. That space itself is expanding, and that explains how we can see objects that were 47 billion light years away in a universe that's only 13.7 billion years old. They say that with every segment you divide the universe into, you can multiply the distance light travels in a light year by around 1.56.

But the question here is, if the universe (everything in this physical reality) is expanding, what is it displacing as it expands? Is there another universe or universes that are not anything like this one, therefore un recognizable by our senses? Or are they intermeshed with ours?

What would happen if we sent a space ship to the edge of reality and beyond? Would it simply disappear into another dimension, or would it drag our reality along with it, causing the universe to expand even faster?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Whatever sort of boundry there is, be it another universe a brick wall, another dimension. It does not matter what bits are expanding there must be a change somewhere. Even if everything is infinite, infinity cannot expand because it is infinate. If infinity could expand then there would be a boundry on infinity, therefore it would not be infinate.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
18 months ago: Oh, my bad. I thought you talking about the universe, not infinity.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Sorry box I got sidetracked.
18 months ago: Space doesn't have to be as big as infinity and as old as eternity... it just has to be bigger than your comprehension.

"He (God) has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end." Ecclesiastes 3:11
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
18 months ago: Hi Mr T
Space doesn't have to be as big as infinity and as old as eternity... it just has to be bigger than your comprehension.

OK Mr T, let me rephrase that. If space is not as big as infinity, or as old as eternity, the bits that are left over after space and eternity, what are they? The book of Revelations speaks of a bottomless pit. What does bottomless mean and If Satan was thrown down a pit for a thousand years, why was he let out again?

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up and set a seal upon him, that he should decieve the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation, chapter 20

How deep and what is this bottomless pit?
18 months ago: PT,

"Bottomless" pretty much means bottomless. Judging (what we can observe of Space) and the fact that what God says about everything is true, mankind can't disprove it. The term also may be given to make a point based on our perspective... so weather it is "bottomless" or not in our estimation, it remains exactly that, bottomless. Tomato/tommato the point is God is in charge.

I think the reason that God lets the Devil out again is for those blow-hards that think that they were duped into accepting option "C" the 1000 year Reign of Christ, and weren't given their option "D"...
17 months ago: Paper Tiger,

You may have an appreciation for this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FejsqHQsx...

Title: Sister Andrea
Artist: Mahavishnu Orchestra
Album: Between Nothingness and Eternity

Jazz Fusion

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