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The Death of the Donkey Will Bring Life to the States

Posted 26 months ago|98 comments|718 views
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Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
The new tone for change the "No's" to "Yes's" among the party of the jack@ss is, "you are going to lose the election now anyway, so you may as well vote with the rest of us jack@sses." Death to the donkey!!!

Well thew good thing is they realize they are done as thew majority party. The bad news is they will have probably killed the federal legislative process.

But, I'm a positive thinker and the bad news will hopefully become good, and States will not only demand their rights, but take back the rights the Central Federal government usurped from them through the legal process of "Nullification." Life to the States!!!
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COMMENTS
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Well, like Kusinich, who either bargained his "no" into a "yes with benefits" or was blackmailed into "supporting the president", there are several other notable Democrats who have "seen the light" in recent days.

I don't believe the Sunday vote is going to be the end of this debate over health care reform. Keep your eyes peeled for other events not so visible in the limelight.
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: Yea they did a pretty good job ensuring the majority of seats for the next election, didn't they Billy? I was young when Carter was president so I don't recollect all his screw ups. I know one for sure and that was creating the Dept of Education.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: And the seeds are being sown for Ron Paul in '12. Just like Carter did in'76 for Reagan, who ironically was asked to run as a 3rd party candidate in '76, just like Paul was asked in '08
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: Ron Paul is okay - I thought he was pretty good in the Bruno movie.
26 months ago: Amen to that Billy, Ron Paul is one of the few who actually has the education, experience and most importantly the untainted record. It is I guess an indication of our condition that so many Americans place so much importance on a pretty face (open to opinion) and sweet sugar coated promises rather than what is actually important. Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
26 months ago: Funny thing about predictions of the death of the party, If you look at the individual issues, the vast majority of the people still side with the issues that Democrats champion.

Thus far half of the people in the polls are disgruntled with the Democrats because they are spineless and don't go far enough to the left.

If they can grow a pair and pass Health Reform then people will realize that the reform does a lot of good and will save them and the country money, and that all of the false demonization by the republicans are nothing but BS.

Then they will boot out all of the Republicans because they have done nothing but obstructionism.
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: Yea I know Al it is all a facade. The whole Tea Party movement was a bunch of loud mouths too just like the press portrayed them.
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: "obstructionism"

You mean the obstructionism when we see the Admin strong arming the votes and behind closed door meetings? Or was it the obstructionism that we have to pass the bill before we find out whats in it?
26 months ago: Al, you do live in a very closed circle. Admit it. You might want to walk the middle class suburbs while collecting your data.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: Are you saying the donkeys will join the forgetful elephants who are already impotent if not dead after the Moon Beam Bush regime imploded the GOP? All they can do is yell from the bleachers while the donkeys decide what to do.

As for nullification, dream on - it's not 1833 although it would probably end the same way.

Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: So mark, are you one of those progressives that beleives when you can't rewrite history, you ignore it by saying "its not 1833".
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: I'll have to give you an RSG response: huh?
Colorado
Colorado
Westcliffe, CO
26 months ago: Come on, have you forgotten that the party in power spends regardless and suppresses states rights. Both parties are the same, Republicrates.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: My vote for the most intelligent comment on this page lands right here.
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: That is why I don't like talking politics because each party is a dismal failure. It is the norm to run for one party, getting elected, then during their mid term jump sides. Their is no backbone in politics anymore.
Gregoire
Gregoire
26 months ago: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: It's actually unlikely that the Democrats will lose the majority in either house. When people realize the advantages that they will gain from the new health care bill they will likely vote for the people who got it done.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: Hope you're right Perfect but it seems to me the Dems are rolling the dice on a corporate approved three-card Monte and simply mandating insurance sans a public option doesn't seem like a formula to reduce premiums for those who are already insured.

If the middle class gets squeezed by rising premiums and/or health care quality stats take a dive, Obama and the Dems will undoubtedly suffer major elecotral consequences, and I'd hate to see the GOP regain parity, much less a majority in the Congress or the Presidency in 2012.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: What advantages will they see? Immediate Tax increases for the next 4 years to pay for benefits they will not receive until 2014 and a few more in 2016. If that's "change you can believe in," then why wasn't Bernie Nadoff on the ticket as VP. At least he hid his scheme from the people for 20 years.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: What advantages will they see? Immediate Tax increases for the next 4 years to pay for benefits they will not receive until 2014 and a few more in 2016. If that's "change you can believe in," then why wasn't Bernie Nadoff on the ticket as VP. At least he hid his scheme from the people for 20 years.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Well, as a Graduate Student I think being able to be covered until I'm 26 via my parents is pretty big. I won't get a tax increase...the rich will (and they should...make more pay more). People not being dropped when the get sick, people not being denied because of pre-existing conditions. These are real changes that happen now. The bigger stuff has to wait a while but small changes now that effect millions of people will ensure the democrats that they retain control of both houses of Congress.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: Don't you think it should be pay less, get less, ohh wait you are a grad student, and you probably have that being paid through govt. grants.
And my question to you is, When people stop "Making more" because sloth is being incentivized, and the American Dream is just being taken from them to give to others who don't work for it, who will then pay. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs ("make more pay more" your paraphrase)is Marxism.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Well I receive a tuition waiver...and that waiver is paid for by the University. So yeah I do. I also work for free for the University so they make their money back 3 fold over a year.

Yes it is Marxist...Now before you continue please read a book and understand the difference between Marxism and Communism before you continue.

The American dream is taken from people every day by conservative religious whack jobs...but thats ok. Its only when someone tells those same people that they have to give up something that it becomes a problem.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: And where does the University get the money for your waiver...The Government.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: As a matter of fact I have read numerous books, I study on my my own, because I wont take a hand out, Austrian Economics, so I do know the difference so get off your "I'm a Grad Student" hobbie horse and learn, don't get indoctrinated
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: And yes I do get my study guides and materials at a reduced price. Not because of govt. handouts, bu through private donations. Something you and your fellow Marxists are trying to eliminate.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: I don't get indoctrinated. Perhaps you should think for yourself more often instead of spouting the same B.S. that O'Reilly and Beck tell you to.
scotmanster
scotmanster
Content Removed by scotmanster
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: "And where does the University get the money for your waiver...The Government."

Billy I like how you pointed that fact out PH had nothing to say about it, it just shows you what double standards society now lives by.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: And if your parents choose not to carry you until you are 26? And you won't get a tax increase? Wanna bet? There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, buddy. If the rich get a tax, you can bet it's rolling down to you. All Robin Hood did was increase the tax load on everyone to cover what he stole.
26 months ago: He has no idea since he lives with mommy and daddy and relies on them to pay his bills, house him, feed him and protect him. Why would they not insure him until he is well beyond the age of majority? Sounds perfect to me.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: I actually don't live with "mommy and daddy". I have an apartment, and a job and I am a full time student.

The fact is that it costs my parents nothing to have me on their insurance but costs me thousands of dollars a year to have the same coverage on my own.

26 months ago: ...The fact is that it costs my parents nothing to have me on their insurance but costs me thousands of dollars a year to have the same coverage on my own...

So if it does not cost your parents a cent who pays for it? Besides if you don't live under their roof and are a dependent on their taxes how do you even justify that fraud.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: I haven't seen the policy yet where "kids eat free". Not saying it doesn't exist, just that usually there are three catagories, You, Your Spouse, and Your Children, with a price tag attached to each combination of categories. Two options spring to mind. You are the older of children still eligible for coverage, or your parents' coverage through their employer includes all children. In that case, although its free for your parents it increases the overhead load of their employer(s), thus driving up the price of services and/or goods.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: I'm not a dependent, I file alone. I live where I go to school (I know you are uneducated beyond belief but this is the way college works...my parents don't live at my college with me).

My parents employer covers whole family health insurance; not really that complicated to figure out (you should try to think a little more often, I know thats painful for you but still...use a little logic for once).
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: My parents employer covers whole family health insurance (Mind boggling to you I'm sure...rich people actually trying to help people instead of be greedy aholes all the time).

The companies prices have remained stable for almost 2 decades (the owner eats the costs so he can treat employees like actual human beings).
26 months ago: My family plan at work also covers all of my dependents that I claim on my income tax. So how are you getting a free ride while not living at you parents home and getting free insurance from their employer while filing you own income tax? I ask again. Fraud? Why don't you do this. Call your parents HR department and tell them you don't live with your parents, you have your own job and you file your own income taxes and claim yourself as a deduction. Let's see what they say.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: They know all of that information. They send me my insurance card at my school address.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Once again...the owner actually cares about people more than money...He eats the cost to give me insurance. And several other employees at that company that have the same situation.
26 months ago: Hate to tell you this buddy. It is people like you that have driven up the cost of health insurance for the rest of us. You just can't face the fact that you are frauding the system.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: I disagree. It is corporate monopolies and a complete lack of regulation that drives up health care. My insurance premium is paid for by an employer. It is still paid for, just because Mr. Bossman pays it doesn't mean its driving up costs...it just saves me money.
26 months ago: ...He eats the cost to give me insurance. And several other employees at that company that have the same situation...

Oh a select few get special treatment. Nice to know he ''Eats the Cost'' without passing it on to his customers. Right.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Its a relatively small company. He does this for all the employees with college student children. Again...try to think...I know it hurts you to use your brain because you are really dumb...but its becoming obnoxious to just listen to you spout nonsensical responses just to be confrontational.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Wow, how childish we get. Is that some more of that liberal empathy and nurturing compassion I keep hearing about? Maybe you cold read Al's rave
http://rantrave.com/Rant/Why-Red-State-G...
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: Name a corporate monopoly that has caused the rise in the price of health care...
Give an example of the lack of regulation that has raised the price of healthcare...

I can say that the one monopoly that has raised the price of health care are Unions. Yes unions are a giant monopoly that control Labor, and the lack of regulation of them has raised the cost of everything across the board. So why don't we lift the Anti Trust exeption for unions, so we can regulate them???
26 months ago: I'm dumb? That is rich. I'm not being confrontational except to point out I don't want to pay for your insurance. To say the pool is not is a lie. What happens when you get your Masters? You sign up for post grad and work on a Ph.D.? Then turn around and teach this crap to new students? Please. You are the one that needs to get an education in life. Hate to say it but you need a real hard life changing experience that cuts off your dependency and easy availability real soon.
26 months ago: I doubt that they know it or have not relayed the information to the parties involved. It is clearly Fraud. Period. You my friend have helped break the system for the rest of us.

Not a dependent on your parents Income Tax?

When does a dependent child lose eligibility?

A dependent child may lose his or her eligibility under a parent's health plan in any of several ways. Depending on the health plan, a child may no longer be classified as a dependent when:

The child loses status as a full-time student. The child may have graduated from either high school or college, dropped out of school or cut back on his/her college class load.

The child, despite full-time student status, reaches the plan's maximum dependent age limit. This is typically between the ages of 19 and 25. It varies by insurer.

The child moves outside the United States.

The child is eligible for group health insurance through his/her employer or the military.

It's a good idea to check your health insurance plan's requirements to determine which of these scenarios apply before the child loses dependent status. Once you know the time frame for making a decision, you can begin to search for alternate health insurance coverage.

http://www.insure.com/articles/healthins...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Labor Unions should be illegal...I despise everything about labor unions.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Teaching people to think critically is not crap.
26 months ago: Wrong. Allowing people to think critically is not crap. Teaching them to think in your opinion is crap.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Who is teaching anyone to think my opinion...I love people who have no idea what a college education is (because they never went) criticize it.
26 months ago: Funny. That you love people while taking away their rights and money to pay your bills. Since your on the topic of higher education and what your getting with reduced tuition or grants while holding your parents health insurance card. Who is really paying for your education and health care? Mostly those you distain.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Funny...You claim to love liberty and freedom and rights for all while only allowing those who meet your moralistic ideals have it.

I am on an academic scholarship. I work for the university for free in exchange for a fee waiver. I have federal loans that I will have to pay back after I graduate.
26 months ago: Uh, Good for your Scholarship. You work for free? Really? I suggest you contact the labor board if required to work without federal mandated compensation. Student loans? Do we really need to look at the stats of repaid student loans? I'm guessing a quick default clause on student loans will be the next your tribe orders.
Colorado
Colorado
Westcliffe, CO
26 months ago: Ohhh, wrong! Trust me, I went to the same school as Perfect Horizon and we both paid, our family paid, our private scholarships paid, and continue to pay in loans for many, many years to come.

This is true in both private and public colleges.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: HAHA...yes indeed sir...yes indeed. Especially fun was the fact that tuition was nearly $10,000 higher my senior year than my freshman. BUT, I wouldn't have traded a minute of it. It was a great school and a great place to learn.
Colorado
Colorado
Westcliffe, CO
26 months ago: Agreed, totally worth it even if I am broke for the next decade.
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: Who gave you the means to pay for that upfront? You think the Government can lend out loads of money without alot defaulting on those loans? Here is what was slide in on the Health care plan another step giant step towards socialism. All fronted at the taxpayers expense. If you want to pay for college go get a job like the rest of us and pay for one semester at a time instead of being a burden to society.

http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=201003...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Right, but my income tax isn't going up. I really don't care if the relative cost of goods goes up. If you are talking about other tax increases such as sales tax...I already pay the highest sales tax in the country so I am pretty much over that as well. I really don't mind paying taxes for better services.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago:
Right, but my income tax isn't going up. I really don't care if the relative cost of goods goes up.

What difference does it make then in the long run where it hits your pocketbook? Unless you plan on not making any purchases, like fuel, clothing, food, dining out, theaters, etc. then the rich are not paying, you are still paying for it. And most of the people you supposedly champion cannot afford another unneeded increase in the cost of goods, on top of the mandated compulsory insurance coverage they are now going to have to pay for.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Because you are over-emphasizing the increase. It will be small if it exists at all on the low end of the spectrum. An income tax hike on the wealthy will not have the drastic effects that conservatives are trying say it will. Its just more scare tactics because they have no more real arguments to make.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Two of the four main criteria for inflation are being introduced by this legislation:

Taxation on production of goods and services
Taxation on the actual services

The other two criteria have already been met:

Government printing excess money
Excessive borrowing

This unjust taxation of our economy is all that it will take to lead to hyperinflation. Get ready for some 80 hour work weeks.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: But the unjust war in Iraq was ok even though it did the exact same thing???
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: What do you mean "was"? Last I heard, we have just as many toys over there as ever, and twice as many in Afghanistan. Nothing but empty words and broken promises so far.

Did I ever say that it was ok?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: "Did I ever say that it was ok?"

Not directly, but I don't hear you decrying all of the things the Bush administration did. And much of what they did was exactly the same thing as what the Obama administration is doing now: Implementing programs that we have no way to pay for, the only difference is that with Health Care there are at least benefits to millions of Americans in terms of having insurance, whereas the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has only cost us vast amounts of money, killed thousands of our troops and left the United States as a laughing stock for the rest of the world to point at and say "Well at least we're not them".
26 months ago: ...all of the things the Bush administration did. And much of what they did was exactly the same thing as what the Obama administration is doing now...

Which you have and continue to rail on Bush about while praising your exalted one for the same practice.

A Fraud and a Hypocrite to boot. Shame on you and your parents. Shame, Shame, Shame.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Soooo, if we're the butt of said finger pointing jokes, then you are saying the liberal answer is to not only double down in the "unjust wars", but further heap more money on the fire. I get it.

If we're in the toilet already, might as well pull the handle.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: When did I praise Obama? Never. I clearly stated they are doing the exact same thing...the difference is that one is marginally advantageous and one is grossly disadvantageous.

Fraud and Hypocrite? How are either of these true? Do you admit that you are a hypocrite as well? You claim to love freedom but will not allow people to have it because you hate America, you hate the Constitution and you hate people because they are different than you.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: What strange religion causes you to think the provision of health care as an entitlement is the equivalnet of flushing money down the toilet?
It certainly wasn't the religion of Jesus or was it?

Disciples: Master, the government is demanding taxes to pay for universal health care.

Jesus: That is an outrage!! I will only bless America if they spend the treasury on war with the infidels in Iraq.

Disciples: But didn't you say for your followers to sell all their possessions and give the proceeds to the poor, to give to those who ask it, and to love and pray for our enemies, to bless those that curse us?

Jesus: Do you dare to question me? Health is for the old and dying, and you will always the poor around. The treasury is for the equipping of the young saints to spill their blood and the blood of the infidels!! After all, the shedding of blood leads to salvation!

Disciples: Yes Master, we will communicate your commands to your media pundits and Saint Glenn Beck will show your way on his chalkboard.

Jesus: Onward Christian Soldiers
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Now THIS is a straw man. Perfect example.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Liberals: WE must stop these unjust and horrific wars in lands where innocents are being slaughtered daily!

Obama: I'm your man. I can stop those wars and bring our evil troops home as soon as you elect me!

Liberals: OK, Mr. President, lets bring our boys home and end the suffering we are causing millions of people and the unjustified draining of our resources!

Obama: Uh, well, ya see, its like this. I'm gong to need about three more years, and another trillion dollars to do that.

Liberals: All righty then.
26 months ago: ...Fraud and Hypocrite? How are either of these true?...

While shouting to the world the system is unfair then turning around and abusing it for your gain. That is not being a fraud and hypocrite?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: And, we pay relatively low taxes in this country.
26 months ago: What percentage do you describe as relatively low?
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: Relative to what?
26 months ago: and relative to who?
scotmanster
scotmanster
26 months ago: Relatively low now that is funny try living in NY. That is not even taking into account how high taxes will rise after they put through the trillion dollar healthcare bill and not including our astronomical debt we incurred over the last two presidencies.

When these socialist programs that liberals pushed into existence over the last 100 years go bankrupt you can bet we the taxpayer will pay dearly for it. Intelligence is not only learning from and about history but the scale is balanced when the person has common sense, which is a trait that can not be learned from any textbook. Either you have it or you don't.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Try living in Chicago...we pay higher taxes than NY. Compared to other industrialized nations we pay very low taxes.

Its funny how conservatives whine about taxes. Do you ever drive on a road? Do you enjoy it when that road is plowed? How about when the trash man comes to take away your garbage? All of these are public tax funded services that you enjoy all the while ****ing about paying for them.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: Where I live we pay a private company to take our trash? It is cheaper, no govt bureaucrats or unions to pay
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: That is the way it should be. Government get out.
26 months ago: Billy, everything and everyone in Illinios seems to be a Union or Government employee or service.
26 months ago: Why am I not surprised. Coming from someone that probably gets more back than paid. Why wouldn't the cash cow look good when your now the owner of the cow?
26 months ago: WAIT... I just figured it out... Allowing ''children'' to remain on parents health care until 26... Means the Social Security retirement age will be increased from 65 to 73 real soon. Somebody will have to makeup those 8 years of increased free coverage.
26 months ago: NP and BO just flushed the country if you didn't know what that sound was.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: Two observations.

1. The overwrought hyperbole of the religious right will be boiling over as they eat a huge serving of sour grapes and spin tales of Armageddon.

2. David Frum who is a resident fellow of the American Enterprise Institute and a former special assistant to Moon Beam Bush back in 2001 has cogently explained how the Conservatives and Republicans "suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s."

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

"we (the GOP) would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama's Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton's in 1994."

"Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton's 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94."

"This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none."

"Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law."

"No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed."

"We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat."

"Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother?"

"Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests."

"So today's defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it's mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it's Waterloo all right: ours."

Enjoy your sour grapes teabaggers and birthers - you have only yourselves to blame.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Well, there's still time to bury a couple more mason jars on the back forty.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Lawmakers intend to challenge the constitutionality of the bill based on the liberal's claim that government has a right to regulate interstate commerce. While that is true, they don't have a right to force anyone to buy something they don't want.

But wait? What about car insurance? That has been forced upon many many peoples in a lot of states!!

Only as a condition of using state and federally paid for roads, bridges, etc. I can drive my car on private property all day long, and have as many wrecks as I want, and there ain't a thing anybody can say about it.

Soo, I think you can see where I'm going. If I choose to go to a PRIVATE HEALTH CARE FACILITY, then the government has nothing to say about how I pay for it.

If there is any regard left at all for the Constitution, this bill will be struck down.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: I can also go as fast as I want, drive as recklessly as I want, do U turns and donuts, and generally make an @$$ of myself if I want.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: You should read the Constitution before preaching about it.

Two Words:

Supremacy Clause
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: The clause establishes the Constitution, Federal Statutes made in pursuance of the Constitution, and U.S. treaties as "the supreme law of the land." The text establishes these as the highest form of law in the American legal system, mandating that state judges uphold them, even if state laws or constitutions conflict.


Note the words "in pursuance of the Constitution". The Constitution still trumps any laws made in contradiction to itself.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Originally yes...however that is not the interpretation of the precedent set by the Supreme Court.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: Please cite the Supreme Court decision you are referring to.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: If a Law is passed and signed which is Uncostitutional, it is Null and Void. That means it never happened, just like this will be judged to Never Happen
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: This bill is not un-Constitutional. It is going to be the law...and you and me and everyone else is going to have to deal with it.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: I won't comply...And in my state I will have protection from Fed Authorities, with in weeks.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: LOL. Have fun in prison...Remember to beat up the biggest, baddest guy on the yard right away.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
26 months ago: The IRS will be the enforcement arm for the mandated insurance and they don't need to send out Sheriff Tucker with the paddy wagon - liens on the property, levys on the bank accounts, repo man collecting the car and furniture, and you suddenly find yourself having to live back at daddy's house or on the streets. Than he can do a Ronbot and declare his sovereignty with the admirality rights, and bluster on about FEMA camps, yada yada. It's easy to bluster on in the virtual world.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
26 months ago: WE had a similar situation on the local level here. Counties started charging each homeowner monthly for trash pickup and told them they had no choice but to pay it, that it was a new county ordinance, and they would have to pay for trash pickup whether they liked it or not. Well guess what? Turns out the county has no authority to force citizens to subscribe to a mandatory service. Only a few disgruntled home-owners, my father-in-law being one of them, know that they have a choice, because the county quietly agreed to let them handle their trash own disposal.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
26 months ago: Turns out the individual mandate the 14 states claim is unconstitutional is one of the many Republican ideas that were incorporated into the plan. See: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/15...

It is all the Republicans fault!

The experts say that the states will loose their suites because the 200 years of precedence gives the congress tremendous leeway to provide for the common good, but you never know with the irrational right wing Supreme court majority.

If they decide to rewrite history then we can always go back to the Democratic plan that most of the people in the country would prefer, and that has been proven to be simple and much cheaper in every developed nation in the world.

Single Payer health Care, Half the Cost, simple, effective and Constitutional Too!

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