Culture & Lifestyle

Rave

The Day Scientology broke 20,000

Posted 34 months ago|231 comments|2,874 views
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In July 2009, the Scientology.org web site broke through the 20K visits barrier. Scientology.org is shown as the 19,899th most visited web site by the status keeping web site, Alexa.com. At http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/scientology.org it says the visits to Scientology.org are up 299% over a three month period. When Anonymous created a denial of service attack on Scientology.org, that web traffic was less than today’s web traffic.

The increase in web popularity is most obviously caused by the Church of Scientology’s television advertisement campaign. But a number of things were put into place before the ad campaign began. One of these was video at the Church’s home page, instead of a standard web page. Another was an account at Youtube.com, with a number of videos. And the Church has done volunteer work at international disaster sites for some years.

As they say in Hollywood, any publicity is good publicity. The Church’s exposure has been enhanced by websites who are dedicated to exposing the organization, and newpapers running articles in series about the Church. This has helped produce a public awareness of the Church and the existence of its philosophy. While the recent advertising campaign doesn’t mention critic’s efforts, it builds on earlier exposure.
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COMMENTS
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: The Church of Scientology should consider going into the Reality TV Show business because when it comes to Sceintology the only thing people are looking for is a train wreck
34 months ago: ^^^^^^^^F**KING L-O-L

In so little words, you spoke so much truth Observer.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: We know Scientologists are addicted to statistics. But numbers aren't everything! Motivation plays a large part. You need to know *why* people are visiting that website. As an Observer stated, train wreck.

To make this statistic meaningful, you will have to show a spike in new membership. We don't think that is going to happen.
34 months ago: That's right, I'm not going to show you new membership statistics. The website's data is updated, the graph updated, it can be clicked. Anyone can see for themselves because the internet is free.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: Honestly, Denise, can't you focus on a topic? Your reply is non sequitur nonsense!

The internet is free? What does that have to with the fact that traffic statistics aren't relevant unless you can also show a positive result? People are going to scientology.org for the freak show, not enlightenment.

Of course you refuse to show new membership statistics. If that data would bolster your argument you would. Your refusal suggests I am right.
34 months ago: Honestly, Xenubarb, can't you reply to a person? Who is "Denise" whom you address, that no one else sees on this page?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Terryeo,

Of course you are not going to show us any new membership statistics. Why would you? You'd have to be crazier that Hubbard himself not to see the Church of Scientology is in serious trouble. Let's face it, an organization which is thriving does not allocate it's entire management's resources to to shaking down it's members for more money or spreading ridiculously meaningless propaganda such as your rave.

If you stopped and think about the time you waste promoting and defending your cult as opposed to the time your cult devotes to doing exactly what it is you join it for in the first place, you'd see the dysfunction of Sceintology just like the rest of us and find something more productive to spend your time on.
34 months ago: I think you guys are missing the bigger picture. To make people interested in scientology, they actually have to advertise.

I can't think of the last time i've seen a catholic, jewish, christian, muslim, buhdist, etc., commerical on TV or the internet.

Whats next, "Call now and you will get this $50.00 Dianetics package for $19.99 (plus S&H)!"
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: dangerranger,

I think what Terryeo was pointing out is there are plenty of people interested in Sceintology, however what she fails to realize is they, like us, are interested in it for the laughs. Sceintology has basically turned into the Jerry Springer Show of religion. At this point,the best they can hope for is to turn into a dysfunctional reality show and get into syndication.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
34 months ago:
There are more people into rested in Scientology today than yesterday. There are more people interested in Scientology this very moment than a moment ago. Every time the word "Scientology" pops up in a Google ad, every time its on the Discovery channel you get interest.

Does this translate into getting new members? I don't think so. Look at your empty orgs. Your stats are crashing! My postulates are in, where are yours?
34 months ago: I would not put it past the $cilons to use some bot to access their site in order to get some fake 'stats'.

$cilons are taught to tell an "acceptable truth".

If, in their twisted minds, it might help to sell $cilontology...then it's 'acceptable'.

It's very telling that there are no VERIFIABLE numbers on increase...or decrease...on Cult membership.

Anyway, hits on a site don't necessarily mean anything. Like I said, could be done with a bot.
34 months ago: Of course, a bot could be used to endlessly access a site.

Night and day. Day and night.

Just in order to show web hits.

It's easy to fake statistics.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: Denise Idda, aka "Terryeo. Wife of Gavino Idda, who was Tory Christman's handler before she left the cult.

Prove me wrong!
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, it's just not impressive. I was impressed with how the Jehovah's Witness related thread (Michael Jackson) pulled far more comments (pro and con) than any Scientology related thread on this site; there were more JWs putting up in defence than Scientologists and guess what, none of them were people who post all over other forums when ever JWs are mentioned - unlike the few people such as yourself.

Clearly there's more activity surrounding them than Scientology although then only claim 7 million members worldwide to your 8 million. Clearly many of their members are on the Internet and so they don't need dedicated people, such as your good self, to follow around all the forums that mention Scientology. You don't hear the JWs babbling on about how many site visits they've had. Nor do you hear them going on about how many new buildings they've bought recently. Beginning to think such things are a little like sex, those who talk the most about it are the least satisfied.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Jehovah's Witnesses are actually doing a little more than trying to empty your bank account. Scientology is more along the lines of

http://www.donstewartassociation.com/tabid/8135/Default.aspx

http://www.donstewartassociation.com/

It's a pure con
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: I click on banners containing Sceintology ads that take me to their site every chance I get. I have no problem spending their money for them.
34 months ago: How do you explain these statistics for Alexa?

Scientology.org users come from these countries:

* 23.4% India
* 8.6% United States
* 5.4% Pakistan
* 4.5% South Korea
* 2.9% Turkey
34 months ago: Because their bot software people operated from India?

Labor in India is cheap enough that they could hire a room full of people clicking on $cilon banners day & night.

Like I said, FAKE statistics.
34 months ago: Scientology lies and it hurts people.
AnonymousLausanne
AnonymousLausanne
Switzerland
34 months ago: ok alexa maight be reliable, but if it comes from a PR from the CoS we know how much they are reliable, especially saying their "acceptable truths".

and if this has made pple more aware of the CoS philosophy it's good, since the philosophy is scamming its memebers and sucking them to the last dollar for a tech which is complete BS.
34 months ago: Oh Terryeo. You are my favorite scilon, such a bucket of epic fail <3

Yeah, scilons have been running bots to boost their stats and stack polls. Reason? They think that somehow boosting these numbers will actually change public opinion and perception of them.

Keep humping that dream David Miscavige. Your days as a free man are numbered. BTW, keep Terryeo out of RPF. We like "his" antics.
34 months ago: Actually my local Church of Scientology is booming. Course rooms are full of people actually studying Scientology books and learning about themselves, getting better in their own estimation. That really makes some people crazy to think that people might be getting real help somewhere.

What the Anonymous creeps don't seem to realize is that when they are demonstrating in front of my church they are drawing attention to it that it would not otherwise get. And seeing a bunch of crazy people in masks demonstrating in front of a church is something of a draw.

I first heard about Scientology many years ago from a person who tried very hard to keep me from going and checking out myself. She was an ex-Scientologist. The more she told me about it the more interested I got. I didn't see her for a couple of months, and I started a course at my local church. When I finally did see her again, I told her what I'd done and how happy it had made me. She was appalled that I was doing so well and winning in life. Sad, but true. 40 years later, I'm still involved in the Church of Scientology and winning in life. If she were still alive, she'd be livid.

I don't need a license from Anonymous creeps to be happy applying Scientology to my life.

Scientology just keeps growing, because people get interested in it, try it, and like how it makes them feel.

Religious bigotry is nothing new. Instead of wearing white sheets and shouting epithets at money-grubbing "kikes", now they wear masks and stand in front of my church waving signs about "scilons" and talking about the "cult of greed".

And all the while, more and more people just get more interested in Scientology and what it can do for them, by the freaks wearing masks in front of my church.

Winston Churchill said it best: "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."


thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
34 months ago: The Church of Scientology is obviously in a "Condition of Emergency". The first action is to "promote". When you see lots of promotion you know they are having a rough time of it.

But then, maybe all that promotion will work for them.

34 months ago: You see - the crazy people in masks and all the internet natter are actually drawing people *in* to the Church more effectively than ever. How do you like that paradox, "Anonymous"?
Feralone
Feralone
Australia
34 months ago: 20,000 hits in a month. Wow, isn't the CofS claiming that they are getting that many new members per month, or more?

They must be to have jumped from there 6 mill(LOL) members to the current 10 mill(COUGH) since 1993.So they must be calling every hit on their website a new scientologist.

I hope the surfer bots in India know they belong to the worlds fastest growing religion!
bob dobbs
bob dobbs
Geneseo, NY
34 months ago: Don't you feel a bit naughty using reverse pscyhology, Mr Remington?

Here's an interesting story from a while back,
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192197,00.html
Tom Cruise's fans seem to have put a lot of effort into skewing a Parade magazine poll in his favor.

Parade.com recently conducted an online poll asking readers whether they thought Cruise was responsible for his disastrous public relations year of couch-jumping, sonogram machine buying and psychiatry bashing, or if it was the media's fault. Eighty-four percent of respondents said the media was to blame for his tough year and that Cruise did not bring his image problems on himself.

But Parade magazine found these results "a little bit fishy" — and they were right.

"We did some investigating and found out that more than 14,000 (of the 18,000-plus votes) that came in were cast from only 10 computers," Parade publicist Alexis Collado wrote in a press release. "One computer was responsible for nearly 8,400 votes alone, all blaming the media for Tom's troubles. We also discovered that at least two other machines were the sources of inordinate numbers of votes."

Parade also speculated how the results could have come to be.

"It seems these folks (whoever they may be) resorted to extraordinary measures to try to portray Tom in a positive light for the Parade.com survey. There is even a chance they wrote a special 'bot' program for the sole purpose of skewing the results, rather than casting the votes by hand on a computer. Sounds like a pretty devoted group of people, don't you think?"

Alexa is probably harder to fool, but there's such things like
proxies.
bob dobbs
bob dobbs
Geneseo, NY
34 months ago:
I forgot to add that those bots in that Parade poll blaming
the media, the merchants of chaos, is a dead giveaway.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Jack H Remington,

At times I am envious of the fantasy land you live in, but then I remember why you must live in your fantasy land, and that feeling goes away really quickly. I picture you running around in circles making engine noises with your arms out stretched, like a child pretending to be an airplane. Good Luck convincing yourself that exposing the cult is helping it.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
34 months ago: Jack H Remington;

You see - the crazy people in masks and all the internet natter are actually drawing people *in* to the Church more effectively than ever. How do you like that paradox, "Anonymous"?

I don't see a paradox Jack, I see a normal chain of events.

Folks protest Scientology, public gains interest, people start hitting web pages because they want to see what all of the fuss is about.

Scientology members evoke "sour grapes."
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: It's just another excuse to shakedown their members for more money.

I can see the emails now

Look at how effective our advertising campaign is, you can help keep it going with a donation, since it's not creating any new members to help pay for it.

Frederick
Frederick
Canada
34 months ago: Terryeo, we all know that ads help business. I imagine that some of the people who go to the Scientology site will take a course or buy a book. Some of those will become "do it for Ron" crackpots.

I will be very sad the day that they give Tom Cruise a script, quiet him down a little, and have him doing the commercials. Even more will join.

But if you want to get 100% of humanity to join, if you really want to clear the world, all you have to do is demonstrate OT abilities in an unambiguous way. Levitate something big in the middle of Time Square. That is all you have to do.

Ads make you seem like a cheap con on the level of a psychic hotline, which is what I believe you to be.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Frederick,

Sceintology will never be able to demonstrate OT abilities, since the imaginary states of "Clear" and "OT" are no more real than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Sorry kids, but those are the facts. Scientology has never produced a single "Clear" or "OT" and never will.
34 months ago: You know, Observer, it is perfectly wonderful that you post your opinion, your knowledge, your understanding, that you proclaim as you do.

However, that isn't what Clears and OTs in good standing with the Church say. To cite, possibly, the mostly widely known such person, Tom Cruise says that the Church helped him with a learning disability. And this is an understatement, not an overstatement because many people have declared.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: LOL, you don't know much about your own history, do you.

"Has anyone ever reached the state of Clear?

Several thousand people have been listed in Scientology publications as having attested to reaching Clear - see the Clear List Project for details. However, Hubbard described several attributes of being Clear, including having perfect memory, improved eyesight, and excellent health, and no Scientology Clear has ever demonstrated those traits.

When Hubbard introduced "the world's first Clear" before a public audience in the early 1950's, he (and she) were embarrassed by the lack of results. She was a physics student, but couldn't remember a simple formula asked by an audience member; when another audience member asked her to state the color of Hubbard's tie, she couldn't recall that either. Much later, in the 1960's, Scientology announced a new world's first Clear, John McMaster. Widely acknowledged as a charming, sweet man, he didn't demonstrate the alleged perfection of a Clear, either."

McMasters later died in poverty. Some demonstration of Clear, I'd say!~
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Terryeo,

Scientology has never produced a single "Clear" or "OT", this is an indisputable fact. Are you claiming otherwise?
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: Terryeo has to believe in it. Otherwise she'll have to admit she's been chumped by an elaborate con game.
34 months ago: Someone has to believe in a religion or cult to make it last, no matter how foolish they appear to those of us on the outside. No religion or cult can survive without bilking its members of their hard earned money, not a single one.

Scientlology might have a few good points like all religions do, but to actually put total faith in something man made is not what a wise person will do.

Believe what you want, all of you, I'm going to stay home.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: sixholdens,

You mentioned "faith" and that is precisely what makes Sceintology a fraud as opposed to other religions. Other religions such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are faith based, where as Hubbard claimed his material to be based on science research and fact with absolutely no evidence to back it up, in fact just about every scientific claim he has made regarding his body of work has been disproved. I'd have no problem with Scientology being considered a religion if it didn't make these bogus scientific claims and told it's members the truth.

Sceintology is a mind control cult, which relies on feeding it's members suggestive thoughts while in hypnotic trance-like states which they call auditing, or flat out hypnosis such as their communication course which happens to be the first step on indoctrination into Hubbard's mind control cult.

Sceintology starts out promising it's followers to make them more capable beings, and quickly turns them into slaves spending the majority of their time and resources battling Hubbard's imaginary enemies and building his totalitarian cult as opposed to working on the self-help which was promised.

After all is said and done, this simple fact still remains ... Sceintology has never produced a single "Clear" or "OT"
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
34 months ago: I know I am off topic but I still think this is worth mentioning. You don't go up the bridge, you go down it. When I was involved with the cult I looked up to OT's. Now I just think of them as the biggest suckers in the organization.
34 months ago: An Observer, you don't think Scientology is real, and you don't think Santa Claus is real.

These are two different things, but still, that's your opinion. I might not think Santa Claus is real either.

However, do you go round the malls at Christmas, ripping the beards off Santa Clauses and stomping on the kid's presents?

I have my suspicions that you might be yelling "Show me a m*****-f****** Santa." That would be great 'lulz' for 'anonymous', I'm sure, while helping those kids out of their oppressive mind traps.
34 months ago: In case you didn't know, Saint Nicholas is quite an inspirational figure, and yes, you won't be able to find him alive on the surface of this planet, but that doesn't mean he is not "real", or his example cannot help real people.
34 months ago: Difference, Jack, between Saint Nicholas and a Clear is that there actually is historical evidence of a Saint Nicholas upon whom the Santa Claus legend (that everyone except little children know is a legend) is based. There is no proof of anyone ever demonstrating the condition of Clear, despite the thousands that have attested to it.

Now, that would make you all a bunch of liars, wouldn't it? Saying you've flawless memory, improved eyesight, etc. but you really don't.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Jack, Jack, Jack,

No one is saying L. Ron Hubbard was not real or that the Cult of Scientology is not real, all that is being said is

Scientology has never produced a single "Clear" or "OT" , which is an indisputable fact.

I'm sorry stating this indisputable fact has made you want to run around the malls at Christmas, ripping the beards off Santa Clauses and stomping on the kid's presents, but I'm not the one lying about the the imaginary states of "Clear" and "OT", the Church of Sceintology is, blame them for your anger not me.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, sure Scientology techniques, which we have established are just a mix of common sense like looking up words you don't understand, and have a basis in early Jung and Freudian theories such as addressing and coming to unedrstand past traumas that are affecting the "now", work to some degree.

As you have rightly said over the past few weeks they are not unusual or special. Although the results are not great the fact they can be effective in helping Tom Cruise and others to some degree is no surprise.

It isn't the techniques so much as how they are dogmatically applied that forms part of the damaging aspect of the organisation calling itself the church of scientology, aside from the motivations of the leader, David Miscavige.

Tom Cruise is helped. Tom Cruise is fawned over by David Miscavige. David Miscavige spares no expense in providing Tom Cruise with lots of love and support, lavish birthday parties, adulation, awards, relationship advice and help and recognition - everything a person like TC needs to feel good. Of course Tom Cruise is helped.

If only everyone could have that special attention, that amount of money spent on them the world would truly be a better place, but it isn't going to happen because others must sacrifice in order for the few to benefit. Still always the next life.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: Clear = "the name of a specific state achieved through auditing, or a person who has achieved this state. A Clear is a being who no longer has his own reactive mind, and therefore suffers none of the ill effects the reactive mind can cause"

Clears do not suffer from "the painful, reactive, uncontrolled emotions". They do not get angry, upset or feel fear, nor do they grieve; all reactive negative and painful emotions.

A lot of people have testified to being clear and yet still exhibit these emotions despite the definition of "clear". There is of course a rationalisation for this, perhaps you can enlighten us Terryeo?
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo OT = "An Operating Thetan (OT) is able to control matter, energy, space and time rather than being controlled by these things. As a result, an OT is able to be at cause over life."

The OT levels lead to OT but they are incomplete so there are no true OTs. Of course those heading up the OT levels testify to improvements as they go up. Many have testified to being OT 1 - 7 and a fair few are now on OT 8.

There have been a lot of people who achieved a high OT level but then lost it and had to do it all again.

We all suffer set backs in life but actual basic improvement should be sustainable because it affects how we deal with life; you come to understand something you don't then loose that understanding, you can only come to the realisation that you never understood it in the first place.

Never the less there is a rationalisation for OTs loosing their understanding, perhaps you can enlighten us Terryeo?
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Jack, you remain an exemplary source of amusement. :-D Thanx for the lulz.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
34 months ago: Jack Remington;
"However, do you go round the malls at Christmas, ripping the beards off Santa Clauses and stomping on the kid's presents?"

First off Jack, your analogy is backwards. It seems Scientology members systematically go around ripping masks off of protesters. It's only happened in about 20 cities according to my recollection.

Second, correct me if I'm wrong Jack but Santa is not in the habit of luring people (including small children!) into stores with free psychological tests. Santa does not tell their victims that they are mentally ill, then physically drop an overpriced book into their laps claiming that it will solve all of their "problems." Santa does not have registrars trained to hard-sell people into mortgaging their homes for courses to "fix" their mental illnesses. Santa does not import people from other countries under "religious visas" then have them do menial labor under the guise of "religious counseling." Santa does not start shouting "bigot" at people if they criticize his bad behavior. Santa does not flip out and attack people if he doesn't like what they are saying. Santa does not hire PIs and lawyers to harass people as a matter of policy. Santa does not have intelligence people devoted to digging up dirt on people. Santa does not "seek to "ruin people."

If Santa did all of those things I'm sure there would be plenty of folks running around ripping his beard off.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Hi JayMCL, welcome to the fray. I had expected a few more people popping up to support Scientology since I pointed out that the Jehovah's Witnesses, claiming a mere 7 million members world wide, gets more coming on line to support them than you guys. Never the less glad you could make it.

I believe what you say but where is your local ORG? I know some orgs are still active, Plymouth UK for instance, despite flagging book sales, is positively buzzing with around 10 staff and a few dozen active public.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Regarding that imaginary 8 million member number ...

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...03-421,00.html

Scientology spokeswoman Vicki Dunstan said the organization has more than 240,000 members in Australia with numbers growing.

But the 2006 Census identified only 2507 Scientologists.

Scientologists seem to be reality challenged when it comes to simple mathematics too. In Scientology terms 8 million equals about 50,000, to everyone else on the planet it equals 8,000,000.

34 months ago: Hey, I want to thank all of you for driving this Rave to the top.

Alexa.com rates internet sites. As an example, it rates Google.com number one, with about 1/3 of all internet traffic. If Google published how many people visit, we could multiply by 3 (by about 3) and know how much total internet traffic exists. But individual sites are reluctant to publish their traffic.

Fortunately, some of the United Kingdom's government is not so bashful. Both Tameside.gov.uk and brighton_have.gov.uk have published their website traffic. And Alexa.com graphs their traffic.

In any event, the 20,000 figure is a percentage rating and says nothing at all about how many people visited the site.
34 months ago: Terry, you need to go back and take statistics. Apparently your study tech has failed you yet again since you have numerous misunderstoods and errors.

The 20,000 figure is not a percentage, it is not a rating, it is a RANKING. saying that X many sites are more popular than you based upon their formula for determining popularity.

There is no rating going on at all. A rating is a subjective determination of quality. A ranking is an integer based numerical system for determining a hierarchy. They do not say that a site is good, or bad, merely that it has attracted attention. What kind of attention can not be inferred.

Unless we look at a fun statistic that IS tracked! Your pageviews/user is in decline. That means these hordes of people are not viewing many pages. In fact, the average user is viewing 1.5 pages. Let us compare that to whyweprotest.net which has an average of about 4 pages per user. We may get fewer visitors, but our visitors actually STAY. Twice as long, since your page has an average visit duration of 2.5 minutes but WWP.net has an average visit of 5 minutes.

Isn't statistics fun?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Terryeo,

You are very welcome, and I'd like to thank you and the rest of Sceintology too, for the endless streams of foot bullets and train wrecks which provide us all with such wonderful comedic entertainment. Please keep it coming it is very much appreciated. It makes for some of the best entertainment of the internet.

Did you happen to catch the story of "Sceintology and the Carpet Dudes"? Here is a link if you didn't get a chance to read it yet. It's pure comedy gold.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gen1/gen00231.htm

34 months ago: A witness or two can get someone convicted of murder. Yet, thousands of people attest to the state of Clear, and that's not enough for some flat-earthers.

No one should be surprised that only one in a hundred Australian Scientologists stated their religion on this census you mentioned, An Observer.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: still not interested in your statistics, especially when you compare yourselves with such low volume sites as Tameside.gov.uk and brighton_have.gov.uk.

You haven't provide the rational for clears exhibiting the negative emotions which by your organisations' definition of clear they shouldn't exhibit.

Nor have you provided your organisations' rational for OT's loosing understanding and dropping back down the OT levels so they have to do them again.

Perhaps you realise that denying these phenomena would be denying something you know to be true while presenting the explanations provided by your organisation would leave them open to logical analysis demonstrating their fallacies, fallacies you know deep down exist.
34 months ago: Is that so? Well then I saw you kill Lisa McPherson! So did some other random person who will attest to that!! Wait, you're still here and not in jail? How could that be...unless a cross examined statement in court under oath IS NOT THE SAME as a random person's statement in a magazine!!!

Bring me any, nay, EVERY person who has attested to the state of Clear. Bring me the definition of a Clear, and allow me my cross-examination. Let me cast doubt and aspersion upon their statements, shine a big bright light upon everything they've said and throw down evidence to the contrary. Maybe then you'll have your proper comparison.

Until then, they are nothing more than the required statements needed to pass the course, false claims made to move up the Bridge.

Also, the Earth is round. You're the religious fanatics making wild claims in the face of truth. That makes YOU guys the flat-earthers. Duh, LRN 2 Galileo.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
34 months ago:
Jack Remington;

"A witness or two can get someone convicted of murder. Yet, thousands of people attest to the state of Clear, and that's not enough for some flat-earthers."

It's not enough Jack. A million people could attest to Clear, it would not be enough...

You-have-classes-on-how to lie effectively! Then, when a person takes a course and it doesn't work, what do you do? You force them to pay for the course again! After a few times of that, you really expect them not to lie?

They lie Jack, they lie just like a Scientologist.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Mecca Anon: Jack realises that by themselves a couple of witnesses cannot convict someone of murder, well in any reasonable court they can't; in fact it wouldn't even get to court with just two witnesses and no other evidence to substantiate the claims. There always has to be something more tangible. He knows the statement is specious. (got the right spelling this time!)

He also knows that prior to scientific proof that the Earth was a sphere (a kind of squashed one for those pedantic types) that many people attested to the Earth being flat - way more than attest to being clear in fact - and yet it simply wasn't so. In this way he's actually taking the urine while trolling in quite an intelligent way, which is why I find him amusing. :-)
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: you still haven't explained how clears can still exhibit those negative emotions which by your own organisations' definition they shouldn't have.

Nor have you explained why when going up the OT levels one is meant to achieve better understanding and yet so many OT's "lost" it, meaning they must have "lost" their understanding. In other words how can one loose understanding, surely one can only realise one never understood it in the first place?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Jack, Jack, Jack,

Not only does your logic not stand up to reality, it's actually quite comical . True there are many people serving sentences for murder which were wrongly accused by false testimony no one is disputing that, nor is anyone saying the states of "Clear" or "OT" are states such as Heaven, Hell or an Afterlife which are based on the faith of testimony. We are stating that they are states specifically defined by Hubbard and are very provable, yet the cult refuses to validate these states under any and all circumstances.

The imaginary states of "Clear" and "OT" do not exist, this is a fact which no one disputes nor is stupid enough to try and disprove even yourself judging by your silly comments. If anyone did try to prove these states existed as defined by Hubbard and were obtained as claimed, the entire house of cards known as Sceintology would collapse.

34 months ago: The 2010 census is coming next year. It will be interesting to see how many people volunteer their religion on the census forms. As you know, religion is voluntary on our planet and not required. As you know, religion is a thought in the mind of man, although it may be accompanied by physical trappings. As you know, religion is a practice, a series of voluntary actions. And not, as some here insist, an enforced series of physical motions.

Our planet is large and life abounds. We have sufficient air and water, space and sunshine for our game of life. If some of us enjoy hiking and camping, others of us enjoy religion. And this has been so from earliest times.
34 months ago: Terry, stop being a child and stick to the topic at hand. I swear, you have the worst case of Attention Deficit Disorder I have ever encountered in an adult. You can't seem to focus on one subject for more than a few minutes.

OT and Clear are lies, false states of existence made up by L Ron Hubbard under the pretext of scientific research. There is not a single shred of scientific documentation to back any of these claims, and all attempts to demonstrate the state of Clear have met with utter failure.

I find it amazing that Scientology is apparently the only underrepresented religion on every single census ever taken. Reported statistical numbers for every religion match what those religions claim as membership...except Scientology. And your statistical deviation is not just a few percentage points here or there. It's exponential.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, no one cares how many people put scientology on their census forms except your organisation. I know that thanks to the fall out from your own organisation there are quite a few independent scientologists who will likely put it on. I gather a bunch of the Chans, a sizible group numbering in the 10's of thousands world wide plan to put scientology on their census forms too, just because they can and just for the lulz. I will be putting scientology on my form too. :-) Jedi is expected to make a come back too, IIRC it beat Scientology last time.

Anyway, what is the rationalisation provided by your organisation to explain why clears exhibit emotions which by your organisations own definition they shouldn't have?

How does you organisation rationalise "loosing" ones understanding (having to redo OT levels)? Simple questions you are clearly not able to confront.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Terryeo,

Do you actually believe there are anywhere near as many Scientologists as the cult claims? Let me be more specific, do you actually believe there are even 5% of the Scientologists as the cult claims? If so can you give us a hint as to where they are all hiding?

Also you never answered the question,

Are you denying the simple fact that in it's entire existence Scientology has never been able to produced a single "Clear" or "OT"
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: The funny thing, Terryeo, is that every person gets to fill out exactly one census form. And since your fail cult counts anyone whoever bought a book as a member...let's just say a great number of people you consider Scientologists don't share that identification. There will be more Jedi Knights than Scientologists. And the followers of FSM will outnumber you as well.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: There is never any data to back up any of the claims made by Hubbard or any of the members of his cult, but there is never a shortage of excuses as to why Scientology's claims always come up short when actual data is presented, and the reasons are conveniently always someone else's fault other than Hubbard's or his cult. If you know anyone looking to buy a bridge to nowhere, I accept all major credit cards and paypal ... but cash is preferred
thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
34 months ago: Anonymous:

Hello. Clear is clear thinking, and minus the psychosomatic pains that sooooo many people suffer from. I'm 79 years old, have been Clear since 1958. You can take the label away if you like, but the gains remain. I've had a happy, long and pain free life. I didn't have a cold for 50 years. I never had perfect recall, but I don't have alzheimers either.

So give the tech a break. It works. If it didn't Scientology wouldn't survive.

I don't know if the Church will survive--if it would apply the Policy re: disconnection is no longer necessary they could turn their future around.

freezoner
34 months ago: @thetagal

Glad you're healthy, but are you sure it's "the tech," and not good genes, luck, and healthy lifestyle, like it is for anyone else who reaches your age? You talk like no one ever gets that old, but they do. And most of them aren't Scientologists.

Oh, and forgive me, but here's a bit of skepticism: This is the internet, and you could be anyone. Heck, you could even be Terryeo on a good day for her spelling, grammar, punctuation, and syntax.
34 months ago: I congratulate you, thetagal. However, Alzheimer's does not automatically onset with age but is in fact genetically linked. Yes, there are steps that can be taken to keep your mind sharp, and occasionally inducing an alpha wave dominant state (typically achieved through meditation, or auditing) can have some benefits when used properly. Another is omega-3 fatty acids, which are crucial to sustaining brain tissue.

I hope you continue to experience wins, just realize that the Church of Scientology definition of "Clear" is not "clear thinking" but involves elimination of the reactive mind, a condition that is supposed to impart...amongst other things, a perfect recall of memory. So yes, I'm sure you're improved, but you are not Church of Scientology "Clear".

But, you're a freezoner and do things a little differently. Be safe and well.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
34 months ago: Thetagal, without the perfect recall you are not the Dianetic Clear as described in Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health. Hubbard makes dozens of other claims that you don't mention in your paragraphs. In my country, Canada, 79 years old is not that old. The average woman dies at 81 so I can't factor the tech into your age. Hubbard died at 74 so it doesn't seem the tech did him much good, at least for longevity. I am glad that you have had happiness and health, for what ever reason, but I must remain skeptical about the validity of Hubbard's tech.

You didn't deal with the OT phenomenon at all. If you do have OT powers is there any way you can demonstrate them? James Randi at randi.org will give a million dollars to anyone who can. It could be an easy way to pick up some cash. If I had OT powers I would be there in a flash.

If you have only the Dianetic powers (and only some of them) and not OT powers, why didn't you pursue OT? Did Hubbard tell the truth about Dianetics, or some of Dianetics then make up the Scientology stuff out of thin air? Why did you leave the organization?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: thetagal,

Scientology has never produced a single "Clear" or "OT" this is an indisputable fact.

I'm glad to hear you are clearing thinking and healthy, but you are not a "Clear" as sold by L. Ron Hubbard. It is an imaginary state which he used to hook people into his cult, it never existed. You can try to redefine it if you like, but that still does not change the fact that Sceintology has never produced a "Clear" as defined by L. Ron Hubbard.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
34 months ago: More for thetagal-- This is a casual observation, not fact, not something I have spent years studying. I realize that my sample space is small and that my observations are bias. Still, I see Scientologists dying young. A dear friends wife, who was an OT, died at a very early age from cancer. My wild guess is that she tried to have it dealt with through auditing. By the time she got to the doctor's and the drugs that Scientologists do their best to avoid, the cancer was too far gone. A study on the average life expectancy of Scientologist would be complicated but interesting. Hubbard predicted in Dianetics that Clears would live longer than normals but I have seen no evidence to suggest that.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: When it comes to longevity Scientology didn't help Hubbard's own son Quentin, he was being groomed to take over the helm of Sceintology, but unfortunately killed himself at the age of 22 in 1976

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Hubbard

It's very unfortunate he did not get his son the professional help he needed.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
34 months ago: Mary Sue Hubbard-- Dead at 71. The royal family didn't do so well.
34 months ago: If you think 'life' is about clocking up as many years as possible in a flesh body, then you'd probably prefer being a cedar, Galapagos tortoise or some such thing.

DeanFox, you plainly write a lot of upside-down twaddle while pretending to have expertise. I make good and thoughtful points that you attempt to invalidate with ridicule. Yet, you accuse me of 'trolling'. I should be honored, I suppose.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: I personally do not think life is about clocking up as many years as possible in a flesh body. Thetagal was the one who brought up age, she also happens to be the only one in this thread who stated she attested to the state of Clear. She did not seem to me that she was aspiring to be a cedar, Galapagos tortoise or some such thing, in fact I felt she seems very comfortable in her skin and with her age, but I'm not going to speak for her. I simply pointed out that L. Ron Hubbard's son Quentin also attested to the state of "Clear" and killed himself at age 22.
34 months ago: If someone is a squirrel-zoner (not a Scientologist in good standing, but someone who has turned their back on Source and Standard Tech, and the Church founded by L Ron Hubbard and who doesn't really follow Scientology), has reached a not-unusual age with her faculties intact, and self-asserts to be clear, but doesn't actually have the attributes that L Ron Hubbard stated that a clear would have (big suprise), how exactly does that surprise anyone? The Nazi war criminals who are still being rounded up seem to be pretty old and have their suppressive wits intact, too. That doesn't make them clear.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Jack,

Do you think you can help understand what any of what you just stated has to do with L. Ron Hubbard's own son Quentin killing himself at the age of 22, after he attested to the state of "Clear"? I'm trying to understand why a Clear who recieved his Tech from "Source" himself would kill himself at 22?
34 months ago: I don't have any data on what you are talking about, An Observer. I suggest that you don't either.When did he "attest to clear" etc etc etc. Where did you get your information, 4Chan?
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: "If someone is a squirrel-zoner (not a Scientologist in good standing, but someone who has turned their back on Source and Standard Tech, and the Church founded by L Ron Hubbard and who doesn't really follow Scientology), has reached a not-unusual age with her faculties intact, and self-asserts to be clear, but doesn't actually have the attributes that L Ron Hubbard stated that a clear would have (big suprise), how exactly does that surprise anyone?"

Hard to believe it, but that is one sentence! And a damn long winded one, I might add. You broke the irony meter here Jack!
Or should I say, "L. Rony Meter?"

Since DM is totally rewriting Hubbard's work and lying about "transcription errors" when the old man was known to be obsessive about his writings, it's really funny you call the people who cling to unadulterated Source as squirrels.

I suppose you bought the lies about transcription errors, and a whole new set of volumes, didn't you? DM's the head squirrel, and you're buying his nuts.
34 months ago: And you are the guardian of the tech are you, barb?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: I realize you are trying very hard to avoid this subject, but be serious Jack, there are many people still alive who knew Quentin and were audited by Quentin he was not only a Clear but he was also a Class XII auditor, any of them will tell you. I can only go by what people who were audited by Quentin himself have stated. I'm still trying to understand why a Clear and Class XII auditor who was the son of "Source" and was being groomed to take the helm of Sceintology by "Source" himself, would kill himself at 22? If this is too much for you to deal with then just say so, I'm really not interested in watching you dance around these questions anymore it's getting pretty boring
34 months ago: You can try to make any crazy points you like, an Observer. Don't expect me to validate them.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: No, that would be the Freezone, Jack. Anyone but a deluded DM follower knows what he's doing to keep money flowing uplines. And if it means altering the tech, he's gonna do it.

That's a High Crime in Scientology! DM is your SP!
34 months ago: Alexa says Scientology.org users still come from these countries:

* 24.2% India
* 8.9% United States
* 5.4% Pakistan
* 3.8% South Korea
* 2.8% Turkey

The increase in web popularity is most obviously caused by users in India padding your statistic, Terryeo.
34 months ago: @Jack Well hell, a reply is more than TerryEO has the balls to give. She's so afraid of us she's completely unable to confront and shatter our suppression. I'm sure at the end of her time spent spamming the Internet to counter entheta, trying to rack up her stats, she's so damn enturbulated she needs David Miscavige himself to audit the evil body thetans from her. And I bet he does it at a reasonable rate, too.

See, Jack, the point isn't for you to validate what we're saying. We'll leave that critical thinking to the masses of folks who are still on the fence. Every time we bring up a point like "Hubbard's own son was a Clear and he killed himself at 22. Clear is a lie," and you guys just sit there dumbstruck cause the tech isn't helping you, we're proving a point to the masses. That you don't have the answers, that it's all a fraud, that the Church of Scientology is corrupt to the very core and must be dismantled.

Sure, we hope that you'll sit here, read that sentence, and maybe just maybe a light will click on in your head. That little tiny lightbulb that auditing has worked so hard to destroy, unwire, and disconnect from its socket, that little thing called "thinking for yourself".
And you'll use it, and you'll start to wonder, and you'll ask questions and demand answers that actually make sense. Not make sense because you sit there and look up the words one by one, over and over until you FORCE it to make sense, because it HAS to make sense. No, an answer that makes sense the first time you hear it.

So go on, Jack, ask yourself. When was the last time you had a thought that was truly yours, and not planted there by the Church of Scientology?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: lol, Jack are you now trying to claim that L. Ron Hubbard's son Quentin did not kill himself? I realize you are reality challenged, but living your life with blinders on in the introverted world of Hubbard's vision of Scientology will leave you blind just as Hubbard intended.

You are a perfect example of the Hubbard's Tech and why anyone who chooses to think for themselves considers it a failure. When confronted with reality you turn into a curled up ball on introverted mush just as Hubbard intended.

At least Hubbard deliver on that promise, Scientology is a cult of slaves who leave all the thinking up to Hubbard and only Hibbard just as he intended.

Try reading Hubbard's Aberration and The Sixth Dyamic 5611c13 to see what Hubbard's excuse is for making you so introverted.

Here is a link to the audio in Hubbard's own words,

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C74OANKE

but I doubt someone as reality challenged as you would actually listen to what Hubbard has to say about Sceintology making you so introverted regarding reality
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
34 months ago: Jack, thetagal brought up her age, but here is why I commented on it:

""...it can be predicted with confidence that the deletion of engrams from the reactive bank has a marked effect upon the extention of life. A hundred years or so from now this data will be available but no clears have lived that long as yet." L.Ron Hubbard said that in Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health.

I won't tell you the page number. If you are clear you'll remember it.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Talking of web statistics Terryeo, there is one serious set of stats that cannot be ignored, those produced by Googlefight under certain conditions.

Googlefight is serious business because it compares the factual point references of two search terms across the Internet to determine which is the most popular.

Even Anonymous bow down to Googlefight's verdicts when they are agreeable.

Now what do we have here:

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Marc+Headley+&word2=David+Miscavige

Marc Headley: 109000 (No longer a scientologist)
David Miscavige: 31600 (Still a scientologist)

And here:

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Anonymous&word2=Scientology

Anonymous: 33300000 (Protestors)
Scientology: 1220000 (Cult)

I think that is pretty much a slam dunk Terryeo, take your paltry "20,000" Alexa web hit stats, hang your head in shame and slink off in to a corner to have a cry. :-D
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Jack, indeed. ;-)
34 months ago: When your web traffic is up 300%, it is a poor time to slink, instead it is a time to promote, to live up to your promises and deliver.

No, it is pretty clear. Quantity does not equal quality. Marc is attempting to prevent people from exploring, While David is attempting to make a situation where people can explore. Marc is building a wall, David is paving a road. Marc is throwing tomatoes, David is causing books to be distributed. Marc is stifling knowledge, David is disseminating knowledge. Marc is called wise and bearded, but those who don't follow him, don't bother with him. David is widely described as "intense" in private conversations, as quick and bright. He is so obviously able, while Marc is obviously bunk. Yes, compare success and compare bunk, do it many times and satisfy yourself that success wins, persists and leads. While bunk is ground in the dust of history.

34 months ago: An anonymous Quibble - di - jiggle,
a fat mind.
Went to protest, a quibble to find.
Found a motion in guilty head,
Disturbed thereby the mind does fly.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: DeanFox,

xenu gets far more hits on Google than "L. Ron Hubbard" or Dianetics,

What does that tell you? other than when it comes to Hubbard and his cult, people are only looking for a freak show to entertainment them.

They are even too mentally weak to acknowledge Hubbard's son Quentin killed himself.

It's actually gone from comedic to just flat out sad. I'm sure most of the people on Hubbard's hamster wheel are decent people, unfortunately they are lost audit junkies thinking Hubbard is going to help them.
34 months ago: It is like, any critic's post self-contradicts. I've tried to explain this many times.

-"thinking Hubbard is going to help them"- No, Hubbard assumed his creation would be used by able people (not by weak minded losers) who would use it to make themselves and other people more able. Instead of sitting around on their hands, hoping for help from the Blue Sky Above. And, just as an aside, Observer, the man, Ron Hubbard, passed in 1986. Life goes on, do you know what I mean?
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: "In July 2009, the Scientology.org web site broke through the 20K visits barrier."

"No, it is pretty clear. Quantity does not equal quality."
--Denise Idda, aka 'Terryeo'

LOL! The Elrony! Nicely played, 'Terryeo!'
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Terryeo,

The only thing Hubbard assumed is he'd find enough weak minded suckers to become dependent on his regressive hypnosis and wild goose chase for imaginary Body Thetans to create a self-serving cult out of, and he was correct in his assumption. It's too bad he didn't get professional help for his own mental illness, so he could have enjoyed the wealth his cult generated instead of dying as a dysfunctional hermit in hiding.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: "An anonymous Quibble - di - jiggle,
a fat mind.
Went to protest, a quibble to find.
Found a motion in guilty head,
Disturbed thereby the mind does fly."

So you fancy yourself as a poet,
Like the fat fraud you seem to revere,
A Vogon writes better,
In meter and letter,
That isn't a compliment, dear.
34 months ago: "it is a time to promote, to live up to your promises and deliver. "

YET YOU CAN NOT DELIVER A SINGLE CLEAR!! I don't care if you get a million people to publicly declare "I AM CLEAR!" because you can just as easily get a million people to declare that the sky is an intense shade of red reminiscent of candied apples. IT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

Hubbard outlined specific qualities that a Clear would possess. Every time he tried to present to the world his "first Clear" (and there was more than one) he met with utter failure and disaster. One person had such a lack of total recall she was unable to even remember the color tie that L Ron Hubbard was wearing.

You can not deliver, you can only lie and cheat your way into brainwashing more people through your mediocre hypnosis. There has never been a Clear in the history of the world. A TESTIMONIAL IS NOT SCIENTIFIC.

Also, Marc Headley is not Mark Bunker. We care not if Marc (WITH A 'C') has a beard or is wise because it is irrelevant as he is a former Scientologist. Mark (WITH A 'K') is Wise Beard Man. Terry, when you open your mouth, you are living proof that Hubbard was wrong. The more you post here, the more you do to disprove that the state of Clear exists.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
34 months ago: Yep Hubbard's entire body of work has not produced a single "Clear" or "OT" as defined by Hubbard himself, this is an indisputable fact that the Church of Sceintology itself will not deny. You are not paying for Hubbard's tech to get you to a this imaginary state of "Clear" you are paying to claim you have achieved the imaginary state of "Clear". The Church of Scientology and it's staff will avoid this subject at all costs, they are not stupid enough to deny the fact that Hubbard's Tech does not deliver and has never produced a single "Clear", they are not about to publicly make direct false claims that Hubbard's tech can produce "Clears" and "OTs".
34 months ago: I'm still stuck on Santa Claus. I mean where else could you go but to a mall to find little kids and Santa Claus? Certainly not an org since scientology considers Christmas a wog dramatization. LRH didn't find God in all his "research" so God's son's birth would be a big fat lie.

Oh, and upper management forces all Sea Org females to abort their babies if they go out ethics and have sex (omg!) and get pregnant. So you don't find many kids at Sea Org Orgs for sure.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: An Observer: you cannot infer anything from any of these statistics because none of them are scientific. I was being deliberately obtuse in making a point for a reason which will become clear (not I hasten to add in any scientology sense of the word) in a moment. :-)

I believe Terryeo is a descent person who is simply misguided by the cult, no reason to believe otherwise; they're probably an audit junkie too based on the simple fact most members of the organisation calling itself the church of scientology are - evidence taken from many testimonials of how auditing gives you a buzz.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: thank you for admitting "quantity does not equal quality". I expected to have to drag that out over at least another 2 posts. You did rather better than I expected in getting that point and admitting it so succinctly. Precisely what I wanted you to say. Good performance. Well done. Give yourself a pat on the head from me for that one.

Like I said before, all these statistics are meaningless fluff and in your world it's the fluff from the wool pulled over your eyes. I don't find this funny though.

We see through the wool because we're very critical of statistics. We question what they really mean if anything. We don't let them bamboozle us in to accepting anything unquestioningly. This is not just your statistics it's all statistics 8 out of 10 cats included.

You on the other hand make great leaps in belief based on what you are told to believe by your organisation about the statistics it spouts out. You see growth in terms of buildings rather than members. You see progress in terms of how many books, pamphlets etc. MEMBERS BUY rather than in terms of membership growth. You see library campaigns in terms of books sent to libraries rather than in terms of books on shelves.

You see it all wrong because that is how your organisation makes you see things, in terms of things it can control like: number of buildings it owns, number of books it can get members to buy, number of books it can send to libraries.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: Now that you've had the cognition, "quantity does not equal quality" are you prepared to apply it evenly by analysing all statistics or will you contradict this understanding in only applying it when told to do so by your organisation?

Incidentally I do contract myself, when I do there is always a reason.
34 months ago: Anonymous is a Scientology front group - See this
http://jwmadison.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/anonymous/
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: Wait...I thought we were working for Big Pharma!
I'm so confused...WHO DO I BILL THIS MONTH????
34 months ago: I got it! Scientology is a front group for Big Pharma. Anonymous is a front group for Scientology. So we really ARE working for big Pharma!
34 months ago: The statistic continues to improve as Scientology's television ads and public works continue to impinge into society, raising awareness. Today Scientology.org is ranked 12,398, its internet traffic up more than 600% in the past three months. Critics, who have attempted to inform the public for years about Scientology (their view), might rejoice, as their hard work as laid the groundwork for increased public awareness.
34 months ago: Increased public awareness that $cilontology is an Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT.
.
Yes, more people than ever are laughing at the nutty $cilons.
.
Tom Cruise did a pretty good job for public awareness of The CULT with his insane video from some $cilon Nuremburg event.
.
That kept comedians busy for at least a year with that little gem.
.
Elron the Con never suspected that the internet would come along.
.
$cilons can't continue to con people as easily...or the same way...when so much information is readily available.
.
It's just a matter of time before the Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT goes the way of all the other wacked out CULTS before it.
.
$cilontology works so well that it founder, Elron the Con, ended up looking like Howard Hughes.
.
Elron the Con ended his days in a beat up motor home with long straggly hair, on psych drugs, paranoid, crazy as a hoot owl, on the run from the law, 'nine inch nails', etc.
.
Elron the Con never invented or discovered anything.
.
Everything in $cilontology has been taken from others and Elron the Con renamed it and acted as if 'He' was "Source".
.
Much...or most...of $cilontology techniques are strict hypnosis and/or typical brainwashing as practiced by the Communists Chinese, pimps, con men, hustlers, etc.
34 months ago: While I understand how you might mistakenly arrive at what you think is valid information, I very much doubt that you think any other opinion than your own, has any validity.

Of course what you say is nonsense, and funny. And as time goes on and the Church grows larger, its methods improving society, as it receives commendations from many established groups, law enforcement, governments, and others, you might consider re-evaluating your information. :)
34 months ago: Yeah, right.
.
Another 1,000 year reich. Sure.
.
Be sure to let us know how that works out for ya.
.
Anyway, for the...sane...people:
.
You'll find a lot of the $cilontology Mind Control tricks here:
.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/psychopolitics.html
.
The rest is in any hypnosis course you care to research.
.
Elron the Con was a HYPNOTIST.
.
You don't need to go further than the initial $cilon "TR's" to see HYPNOTIC MIND CONTROL in action.
.
Also,they keep files of all your confidential 'deepest/darkest' secrets so that they can blackmail you later if you leave.
.
Also, Google "Fair Game Scientology".
.
This is 'doctrine' by The CULT founder, Elron the Con.
.
It's a mafia like Mind Control CULT scam.
.
"Ron is gone, but, the con goes on."
.
It's all a Mind Control CULT scam for M-O-N-E-Y.
34 months ago: Terry!! Welcome back! Were you on vacation? (Are you allowed vacations?) I was growing so worried when you simply stopped posting. I know the Church of Scientology has such strict measures of punishment for staff members who are downstat, and I know we were doing such a good job of using factual evidence to disprove your conjecture and wild, baseless claims here that I thought you'd been placed in the Rehabilitation Project Force. Good to know you're still not on the beans and rice diet, forced to run everywhere you go?

"And as time goes on and the Church grows larger, its methods improving society, as it receives commendations from many established groups, law enforcement, governments, and others, you might consider re-evaluating your information. :)"

Oh Terry, you stop, so we stop, and thus you think you can get away with this false data you've conjured up. Yes, more people are visiting your site. 22% of them from India, only 10% from the US. Those are your top two sources for hits. Pageview time is still abysmally low at 2.2 minutes per visit. No one is taking the time to stay and read. They just show up, look around, see that your website is all flash and no substance, then leave.
34 months ago: Your Orgs, all of them, are empty of public. Where are these new members you're claiming? Anonymous is constantly protesting outside your Orgs, yet we never see any new faces. Ever.

The Church of Scientology makes only one claim to helping the world, and that is exposing people to Scientology. Unlike other organizations which state they help people, no actual charity work is ever done by anyone within the organization. No money is donated ever to help the needy, no time volunteered running shelters, no food drives are sponsored. Because that involves spending money, not making money, and L Ron Hubbard demanded that you ALWAYS get paid for your services. Real charitable attitude. *sarcasm*

Also, you've received no commendations. None. The claims to the firefighters award following 9/11 have been shown to be fraudulent as the award is specifically FOR firefighters and your group is not eligible to receive it. The only "awards" received have been for mass producing and mass translating L Ron Hubbards works. Many of these awards are suspect in their validity as well as they never originate from major organizations that are well known. They're always small, tiny, and often insignificant.

So, there we go. You make up lies, I disprove them. It's good to have you back, Terry. :)
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
34 months ago: Terryeo;

"When your web traffic is up 300%, it is a poor time to slink, instead it is a time to promote, to live up to your promises and deliver."

I agree completely! Its high time Scientology quit lying to the public and start doing a bit of house cleaning. You need to confront who and what you really are!

Getting rid of the unworkable tech would be a start. Dump KSW, ditch the HMJ. Dissolve OSA, the Sea Org and the RPF. Get rid of any courses that talk about space cooties or aliens. Dump all of the rhetoric about smashing the “psyches” and “clearing the planet.” Stop harassing critics, fire all of the lawyers, stop hiring PIs. Muzzle Tommie Davis; stop importing people from third world countries as cheap labor. Start paying your bills on time, stop bugging your public for yet more donations to purchase empty buildings. Stop using slave labor. Stop buying guns, stop running license plates, stop filming every street corner in Clearwater, finish the Super Power Building and make it into a world class convention center instead of a cult hideout.

If Scientology could find a way to do all of these things and many more I have not mentioned, you might gain the respect you people so mightily crave. You won’t be more than a self help group with religious pretensions, but at least you won’t be the social pariahs (SPs) that you are now.

(The rest of Ms Terryeo’s ad-hom has been ignored.)
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, those commendations you speak of have been evaluated. Some it turns out are from organisations associated with yours, the one calling itself the church of scientology. Others said they didn't realise they were commending your organisation; many gave commendations to individuals not realising the connection with your organisation. The commendations are like your statistics, empty because they are mostly from mutual ego stroking groups, partners to your organisation or misguided groups or individuals.

More and more people are coming to understand the true nature of your organisation, even those Central American places like Honduras.
34 months ago: The $cilons just con and con. On and on.
.
If there was anything REAL to the $cilon con game, they wouldn't have to constantly scam, con, spin, twist, lie, etc.
.
Why would any reputatable organization even want to fake 'statistics'?
.
Still trawling for the few stray suckers out there, I guess.
.
The Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT is a house of cards.
.
All smoke and mirrors. No substance.
.
With the exception of a substantial con game, that is.
34 months ago: Oh dear Oswald, don't you see:
Scientology definitions hold the key?

Simple in appearance, (compare to a rock or a rill)
a definition's meaning when viewed from the top of the hill,
is quite different than from bottom looking up.

So then, one must get the whole definition,
as the author means to communicate position.
Position and placement within a context,
the idea, the meaning, is placed within framework.

Ron Hubbard's framework define came before 1959.

That idea is that a person can help another. That idea requires communication. That idea is; when you talk about difficulties with a friend, you might resolve those difficulties. This is that framework, his work fits within.

Good men embrace this, abberated, hate this. Because it is valid and true and real, no one rejects it. The possibility exists, always exists, you might resolve a difficulty while talking with a friend.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
34 months ago: It's easy to see through your simplistic logic, which is designed to weed out those who would question, criticize, or speak out.

What's left to continue up the bridge are the easily led, mentally lazy people who never question or think for themselves.

"Good men embrace this, abberated hate this." LOL! Newsflash there, Terryeo, nearly everyone rejects Hubbard's inflexible, 50's brand of "modern science." The 50s and Hubbard are long dead, Terryeo. His elaborate scam is based on a few common sense truths, as are all good cons; a smattering of truth surrounded by a framework of lies and fantasy. Those lies are being exposed as never before. Your orgs are empty. Scientology is bleeding members at an unprecedented rate.

By the way, the word you were trying to spell was 'aberrated.'
If you're using Windows, that little red line under a word means it is misspelled. Select it, right click, and a flyout menu will appear, containing a selection of words in your system's dictionary. Learn to spell check. Writing at a fourth grade level and spewing poorly crafted poetry isn't exactly an endorsement for the study tech. Nor is it a way to get your message taken seriously.

It almost seems like Scientology is a haven for the incompetent who need something to make themselves feel superior to the rest of the world. And yet, your inadequacy still shines through in your dogged, mindless acceptance of the droolings of a drug addicted college dropout, the failure of adherents such as yourself to perform even the simplest quality check of your work.

The black and white thinking within Scientology is another curiosity that stands out in a world with a million shades of gray.

"Good men embrace this, abberated,(sic) hate this." This is a great example of black and white thinking. All nuance is lost.

Scientology may make you feel special. But special rides the short bus.
34 months ago: Terryeo,

I'll restate:

"Elron the Con ended his days in a beat up motor home with long straggly hair, on psych drugs, paranoid, crazy as a hoot owl, on the run from the law, 'nine inch nails', etc."


This was the end result of the very 'best' that $cilontology could offer.

Elron the Con was supposedly "Source".

The miserable end of a miserable low life con man shows what $cilontology REALLY is.

The founder of the Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT ended up in a worse condition than a skid row bum.

THAT shows how $cilontology 'works'.

Sign me up. Yeah. Sure.
34 months ago: "Scientology definitions hold the key" You mean redefinition. You're taking words and assigning new meanings to them as a means of control over language, and thus over the people who speak it.

Then you ramble on with some nonsense.

"Good men embrace this, abberated, hate this" Such absolutes are why Scientology is doomed to fail. Either with us, or against us. Embrace our ideas or we destroy you as an enemy. Time and again the us vs them mentality arises. As a wise man once said, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes".

" Because it is valid and true and real, no one rejects it." You JUST SAID "abberated, hate this". That means someone rejects it. Look, if you're gonna argue something, you tend to come across as INSANE AND DERANGED if you can't even stick to your own established points.

"The possibility exists, always exists, you might resolve a difficulty while talking with a friend. " Yes, and that has nothing to do with Scientology and NOTHING to do with what we're discussing. In fact, it is counter to everything Scientology teaches, which is that only in auditing can issues be resolved. You are then forbidden from discussing your auditing sessions with anyone outside of the session.

Unless of course you speak critically of the Church of Scientology, then your "confessional folder" will be used to blackmail mail you into silence.
34 months ago: "Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky."

-- Elron the Con


With an ethos like this, it's no wonder he died in worse shape than a skid row bum.
34 months ago: This is one of the reasons that $cilon net hits are up.
.
.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1023717.ece
.
.
People are wondering about the wierd Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT because of stories out of publications like the St. Petersburg Times like this:
.
.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/article1023717.ece
.
.
More and more people that have escaped The CULT have admitted that Miscavige beats his staff.
.
Read the article to find out what $cilontology REALLY is.
.
They SELL YOU a chance to chase after "a piece of blue sky".
.
You'll never get it, though.
.
Never.
.
You will only find, one day, that the years and all your money are gone.
.
When you are no longer of any use to The CULT, they will "off load" you.
.
They have already moved on to new suckers.
34 months ago: When a statistic obviously increases, and you want to know the reason why it increased, you look for something that has changed.

Critics have railed for years and newspapers have written articles. Some use lies. Others ignore important facts to present valid, often unimportant information. News happily represents minor things as being terrifically important. News exists to sell yet more news. And this is done by presenting any attention getting bit as wonderfully important.

Another thing you can be sure of, Scientology has bee very helpful to me, and to many other people. You don't begin and donate a few hundred dollars, which then uses up some of your time, when you do the service you donated for. And press on and donate yet more dollars, yet more time, without gaining something. I've found it wonderfully helpful. Other people have, likewise. Movie stars who donate large amounts, and do the services that use larger amounts of time, don't do it to waste time. Their time, like yours and mine, is valuable to them. They get something from it or they wouldn't do it. And I get something from it, or I wouldn't do it.

What is there to get? There is "feel a little better" to get. There is "become a little more capable" to get. Life gets a little bit easier, is a little more fun. And this is a step at a time, a step at a time and life really can improve.
34 months ago: If $cilontology REALLY works...

Then how come your first furher, Elron the Con, died in worse condition than a skid row bum?

And on psych drugs to boot?

Why have some many former top $cilons blown?


You are like the heroin addict that thinks things are better off while he is using (and his life is going down the drain).

Stay stoned on $cilontology for a while longer and enjoy your illusion...because, when reality does hit,...it's gonna be like nothing you have ever experienced before.

When that day comes, just blow. Don't rout out. Just get out...as fast as you can.

There are many ex-CULT members that are recovering very well from their ill spent time (and money) in the Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT.

As to the question of why would people continue on in The CULT (or any other unhealthy addiction - e.g. heroin - for that matter)?

It's called M-I-N-D C-O-N-T-R-O-L.

Remember, Elron the Con was a HYPNOTIST.


"Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky."

-- Elron the Con

DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, I don't doubt you believe you're doing good. Your organisations' main M.O's is to usurp people's desire to make a difference and make it work for its own ends.

You scoff at the idea that you're under some kind of mind control, after all you'd know right?

You believe your organisation is in a mission to reverse the downward spiral in world humanity, a mission to save the humanity no less. You are part of this mission and your life is dedicated to this mission. This mission is of paramount importance. This mission warrants personal sacrifices.

This mission has provided you with a meaning and direction in life. Your organisation facilitates you pursing that meaning and direction; it supports you in pursing that meaning and direction, albeit perhaps sometimes quite harshly when it comes to encouragement.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: The organisation provides you with training in the skills needed to pursue this mission, it gives you self worth. It provides you with auditing, more on this later though.

In order to pursue this mission you must work hard to disseminate the tech, counter any and all opposition and get people on to the bridge to total freedom, to join you, for this is their only true hope of salvation and of reversing the downward spiral of humanity.

Your organisations' mission involves using a lot of consumables. You need books, pamphlets, DVDs, e-meters, a plethora of items necessary to set up missions, yellow tents, various course kits etc. All kinds of consumables are necessary to "keep scientology working".

Your organisation produces all of these consumables in house; even the furniture for many of the plusher Ideal Orgs is produced in house.

All in house production uses in house labour; labour provided by members. Some members perform this labour to make amends, others provide it voluntarily as part of their efforts to help with the mission. All of it is provided very cheaply.

Labour costs are the biggest on going cost in most production plants, why do you think many production companies like to have factories in developing countries where labour is cheap and plentiful.
34 months ago: The Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT preys on people.

Some people that they prey on are 'True Believers'. People that really do want to improve themselves and contribute to helping their fellow Man in a meaningful way.

The CULT cynically plays upon some peoples' true and honest desires to be of service, conditions them through MIND CONTROL and them sucks them dry of money, time, energy and anything and everything else they can get out of them.

When the victims are sucked dry, they are unceremoniously gotten rid of.

DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Your organisation's production plants have some of the lowest actual overheads in the world, comparable to labour provided by children in developing countries; these are bumped up by various more ephemeral costs like licence fees but it doesn't matter too much because as a tax free organisation it isn't like anyone will audit the myriad of sub companies and quasi-independent entities surrounding it.

Despite having very low overheads for the various production industries your organisation dabbles in (largest DVD production plant in the world IIRC), the materials produced do not reflect this in price.

Subscribers to your organisation pay for these products not at true cost but at retail prices. The profits are nickel and dimed away though through those various ephemeral cosst, like licence fees, distribution etc.

Subscribers pay for these consumables because they believe in the mission and believe they are forwarding that mission by either buying consumables for their own use or funding their distribution else where.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: As far as mind control is concerned, all your organisation has to do is convince someone looking for direction, meaning or help in life that their direction is the right one, one that will provide them meaning and that they will give them help. Having done this the person will do what the organisation wants, which is to donate their time and money to it.

The mission gives direction and meaning, the feeling of inclusion in the mission provides some help and "auditing" and courses fill in the gaps.

Auditing can produce emotional rushes. These can be quite profound and when experienced are quite addictive. Indeed to someone inexperienced in how to induce such states themselves they can become obsessed with repeating the process that produced the state in the first place, namely auditing.

The TR's have already been examined, these produce an altered state of conscience in which the subject is more accepting of what they are being told, critical thinking is broken down.
34 months ago: The TR's are HYPNOSIS.

There is no mystery there. Just everyday garden variety hypnosis.

Go check out any basic introductory material on hypnosis and you will see that that is what the TR's are.

************

Many people have very deep desires. When The CULT holds itself up to be that which people most deeply desire, many people will give everything to realize that desire.

When people believe "their dreams are coming true", they understandably get euphoric.

Everybody has had the experience of wanting something or someone so bad that they disregarded their own inner warnings and the warnings of others.

The truth does eventually become apparent after the euphoria has worn off.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Totally agree with you Oswald2001. Terryeo really strongly believes she is benefiting from the organisation.

In a way I suppose that by providing her with structure, meaning and direction in her life she does get something out of the deal but total devotion to the cause is quite a price though; you find at the end of your life you have lived it for someone else and worse it could have been a lot better had you done otherwise because it involved giving up so much. (The worst "what ifs" are those you knowingly sacrifice for someone else because you willing take the toughest path only to find it leads no where).

Thankfully most subscribers to the organisation realise early enough to salvage a sizeable portion of their lives. A benefit is many often appreciate their remaining life more having wasted so much in the organisation. For the rest, well there is always denial - it will be better the next time.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Public scientologists who *really* benefit tend to be those who find ways of selling services to other public and staff scientologists; usually vitamins and tonics to help with purif run downs like the famous tonic sold around Clearwater for a while that helped with "floating the needle" because it contained naturally occurring lithium Orotate.
34 months ago: I've seen that opinion so many times and it is exactly backward. "The Church has benefited so-and-so". The Church has done this, has done that, has cured a learning disability, or straightened toes or made hair grow curly. That opinion is exactly, precisely backward.

That opinion assumes that everyone is effect, is the effect of forces large and powerful. In the same way everyone "knows" that a country's government is much too large and powerful to be effected by a individual, that opinion insists individuals are small and weak. Helpless before the grand and glorious Church (which critics say is declining like mad) the individual could only be a weak and helpless effect, say critics. Therefore people such as myself are "benefited", somehow. We take pills or mumble incantations or suck down cold pressed oils, and because we "believe", we are benefited.

Scientology's "benefit" is too simple for the critic to understand. It would require the critic to abandon his whole philosophy of life. Study of Scientology and its application bring you to a better state of awareness. You are a little more aware and life is a little bit easier. All of your attention isn't used up all of the time and you can deal with a little more. Instead of hitting the baseball 300 feet, you hit it 310 feet. Instead of work at minimum wage, you get a little better job. Instead of poor communication, you find yourself communicating more effectively. Instead of studying 20 hours a week to get along in school, you study 18. Get the idea? This "benefit" happens because you put personal effort into studying Scientology. And is quite contrary to critic's "float your needle by drinking more tonics". HA! to that drivel.
34 months ago: "Scientology's "benefit" is too simple for the critic to understand. It would require the critic to abandon his whole philosophy of life."

-- Terryeo - Cult Shill

Yes. You must give up awareness and become HYPNOTICALLY MIND CONTROLLED in order to see the $cilon 'reality' than up is down and green is pink.

***********************************


"In addition to violating and abusing its own members civil rights, the organization over the years with its 'Fair Game' doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in [Scientology] whom it perceives as enemies. The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder [L. Ron Hubbard]. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements. The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egoism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile."

-- Judge Paul G. Breckenridge, Jr., 6/20/84 (Scientology v. Armstrong, affirmed on appeal 232 Cal.App.3rd 1060, 283 Cal.Rptr. 917.)
34 months ago: Here is a link to the article about $cilontology that is entitled "The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power":

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html

The $cilons tried every dirty trick in their book of dirty tricks and spent Millions of Dollars to try and suppress the truth about their Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT, but...FAILED.

You just have to Cut & Paste the link into your browser.

34 months ago: If ever there were an opposite of hypnotism, it would be Scientology's activities. Its methods are designed to counter hypnotism. For example, the Training Routines, which say: "Be there comfortably and confront".

What does "Be there comfortably" mean? Well, it means what the words say. Sit there in a manner so that you are comfortable.

"And Confront". What does "confront" mean? Well, it doesn't mean go to sleep. It doesn't mean that you should be entranced or in a trance or hypnotized. A good coach would spot that immediately, stop the performance, make sure you were awake and perceptive, and begin the routine, again. Confront means what any common dictionary says it means, for example; "To bring face to face with", but not with hostility because the "be comfortable" is part of the training routine instructions. It means to be aware of, to confront.

Yet what critic accepts that a confrontation can be peaceable? The idea is beyond the critic's comprehension and is yet another reason that critics, although meaning to accurately present information, are incapable of presenting accurate information about Scientology.
34 months ago: Terryeo,

Go find any basic course on HYPNOTISM.

You will find the HYPNOTIC CONDITIONING OF THE TR'S in it.

Also, check out any basic breakdown on classic BRAINWASHING. You will find the HYPNOTIC CONDITIONING OF THE TR'S in there too.

Elron the Con was a HYPNOTIST that used it in MIND CONTROL in order to suck the resources out of as many people as he could.

If you are gonna lie straight out, you will never be able to con anyone.

Are you just posting for OSA stats?

The only one buying your BS are fellow psychotic $cilons that are as HYPNOTISED as you are.

Basically, the entire $cilon 'tech' is HYPNOSIS...and nothing else.

34 months ago: Good video about TR's as HYPNOSIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgtvp7RIdg
34 months ago: Here's another video about $cilontology and it's use of hypnosis (which uses some of the same footage as the previiously noted video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHiSEulMnsQ

The reporter is a well known English hypnotist.


Notice, at the end of the video, how Elron the Con says he's been married twice. Yet he "...never had a second wife".

Not only a sociopath, but, a pathological liar as well.

All HYPNOTIC conditioning (MIND CONTROL) will wear off if not reinforced. The $cilon TR's are designed to establish HYPNOTIC CONDITIONING and then reinforce the HYPNOTIC CONDITIONING.

Even the use of 'special language' is calculated to reinforce HYPNOTIC CONDITIONING.

$cilontology is simply MIND CONTROL via HYPNOSIS for the sole purpose of sucking as much money from as many people as possible.

DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: as always I understand what you are saying, this time with respect to TRs. Oswald2001 is correct though, you do not understand hypnosis.

The hypnotic state (trance) is not one of sleep, It is one of extraordinary relaxation in which one is still aware of one's surroundings, though you can be later told to forget what's happened.

The brain goes in to a "quiet" mode during which it does not critically analyse what is going on, hence you feel "detached" from what is happening. This will be induced during TRs for most people given demands of the exercises; those who do not experience it during TRs give up and leave.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: It should go without saying but when your brain is in a "quiet" mode you become passive. Ergo you achieve the state you said, you confront with passivity, an extension of the christian "turn the other cheek".

You believe this makes you impervious to verbal abuse, it doesn't. Sure you can ignore, feel detached from, the verbal aggression and insults but in the same state you're receptive to verbal command abuse. After a while you will even accept physical abuse passively too.

Given the practice you get on TRs I suspect you enter this state almost immediately you are shouted at, especially by an authority figure with your organisation; perhaps this is why David Miscavige throws so many tantrums because he knows his staff are programmed to be passive and just do as they are told.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo: "I've seen that opinion so many times and it is exactly backward. "The Church has benefited so-and-so". The Church has done this, has done that, has cured a learning disability, or straightened toes or made hair grow curly. That opinion is exactly, precisely backward."

Quite a clever twist here, the logical reverse of "the church has benefited so-and-so" is "so-and-so has benefited the church". While this is undoubtedly true for 99% of "so-and-so"'s it isn't what you understand is it Terryeo? (No of course not.)

Your understanding is that the church provides you with understanding that allows you to benefit yourself, and indeed others. It's like a hardware store, they sell you a chain saw and you benefit yourself by being able to cut down more trees. (Others, if that statement seemed a little clunky it's because there is a problem with it)

You say this is "simple", well anything is simple when you understand it but to an outsider this statement is logically flawed, to an educated outsider this is an example of double speak; a subtly twisted form of thinking that creates apparent differences where none exist.

This is going to be tough to explain to you Terryeo, since being afflicted by double speak causes you to automatically translate statements incorrectly unless precise terms, ones you recognise, are used. Bummer really it's another part of the mind control mechanism; you translate based on presumptions about the source. Me, I translate what you say both as an outsider would and as someone who understands how you think.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, I've given it some thought and to be honest I doubt I will be successful in getting you to grasp how you are afflicted by double think, however I owe you a shot at least so here goes.

You say:

"Study of Scientology and its application bring you to a better state of awareness. You are a little more aware and life is a little bit easier."

Others would say:

"Scientology benefits me by improving my state of awareness so life is easier." To which I would say Scientology has benefited you; Scientology has benefited "so-and-so".

Your more reasoned arguments always come down to semantics because your syntactical logic is different; this means you perceive misunderstandings where often none exist because critics don't use phraseology you can comprehend.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: It goes without saying that in order to do anything, including study scientology, requires effort.

Anyhow, you believe you've benefited from scientology and you quantify the benefits for us as being:

instead of hitting a baseball 300 feet, you hit it 310;

Instead of studying 20 hours a week to get along in school, you study 18;

So you're saying having studied scientology properly you can realise small improvements.

There are far cheaper ways of getting the same improvements, so why would anyone choose scientology? Why does the planet have to be cleared?
34 months ago: ". . . though you can be later told to forget what's happened."

A man is standing before you, the two of you are talking. He says, "forget what has happened". Do you forget? Of course you don't forget. Anyone on the planet, except a handful of psychs and mind control experts AND CRITICS OF SCIENTOLOGY do not want to "forget what has happened", do not want to be unaware. Rocks are unaware, Plants are unaware, some animals are somewhat unaware. You don't survive by "forgetting all that happened". You don't get through college or paint, or create music or art or construct buildings by "Forgetting all that happened". Get a clue, hypnosis would be the opposite of what you want, a method to control individuals and populations. Popular in Communism, touted by psychs and sought after by media people, these methods of crowd control become less and less as Scientology's methods become more and more popular.

"TRs are hypnotism" is another of critics outright lies. Having given up with deceit, critics resort to outright lies. HA! When scientology.org breaks 10,000 then I'll write another article, and when it breaks 5,000 then a number of people might write articles. Get on board or go to sleep, up to you.
34 months ago: Terryeo is writing for all the other brainwashed $cilon Zombies.

How about Elron the Con saying he has been married twice, yet...somehow..."...never had a second wife."?

Care to answer that?



*************
Apparently, Terryeo didn't watch the videos. I post them again.


Good videos about TR's as HYPNOSIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgtvp7RIdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHiSEulMnsQ

The reporter is a well known English hypnotist.


Notice, at the end of the video, how Elron the Con says he's been married twice. Yet he "...never had a second wife".

Not only a sociopath, but, a pathological liar as well
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Terryeo, you see you latched on to a sentence of little consequence regarding hypnosis and blew it up because everything else I stated you have no answer to. Why? Because I am correct, not only with respect to how you feel when you are under going TRs, you become disconnected to enable you to "passively confront" but also with respect to my other post regarding your double speak logic on "The church benefits so-and-so" being the "exactly, precisely backward".

Myself and Oswald2001 have stated TRs use hypnosis techniques. Your counter to our logic is basically to grasp the simple statement "though you can be later told to forget what's happened." and come back with TRs can't use hypnosis techniques because that is the opposite of their intention.

I merely said you CAN be told to later forget what happened while under a hypnotic trance, this was intended to illustrate how suggestible you are while in a hypnotic trance.

I DIDN'T say you WILL NOT remember what happened which is premise upon which your last post is based. (See how you fail at comprehension because your ability to comprehend has been corrupted by your double speak programming?) - perhaps not eh?
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
34 months ago: Suffice to say the TR exercises induce a state of concious detachment from external stimuli; this is your state of passive confrontation - being aware of what is happening but reacting passively - like what everyone in your organisation does when David Miscavige gives them a good slapping.

This state of concious detachment is a hypnotic trance state. Your brain has gone in to "quiet" mode as it were and has shut down critical thinking - it is no longer responding to the alert signals from the limbic system.

I watched an episode of Derren Brown's "Trick or Treat" in which he conditioned a subject in to a detached reality state in which the subject came to believe he was a ventriloquists dummy. He used similar techniques to those employed in the TRs, although it might be too subtle for you to recognise.

Suffice to say you really do have a problem with the double speak programming your organisation has given you. You repeatedly demonstrate fundamental flaws in logical thinking and comprehension; while you may be able to communicate better within the group you communicate worse outside with those outside the group.

It's only because I have extra understanding of you Terryeo that I can understand what you are trying to say.

When presented with: "The Church has benefited so-and-so". The Church has done this, has done that, has cured a learning disability, or straightened toes or made hair grow curly. That opinion is exactly, precisely backward." would automatically assume you're saying "So-and-so benefits the church" because they would take your statement "the opinion is exactly, precisely backward" and say ok, so lets "exactly, precisely" reverse it so it goes forward.
34 months ago: Elron the Con was married 3 times and 'erased' the memory of his 2nd wife via HYPNOSIS.

Though he admitted being married twice, he said he "...never had a 2nd wife.".

C-R-A-Z-Y

Elron the Con was such a loon that the only way people could overlook his obvious lunacy was because he used MIND CONTROL via HYPNOSIS.

**************

Elron was a pathological liar also.

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

- L. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418

thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
33 months ago: Terreo: Good for you for bravely looking at one Freezone website! Freezone is "buyer" beware, because in the Freezone we are free to apply the tech we were trained in.

Not every person in the Freezone applies tech standardly. You have to get to know who is who. The Rons Orgs in Europe apply tech standardly through OT III, then do their own thing.

You call the Golden Era of Tech Gat Tech. In the Freezone we refer to it as Goat Tech. For example, as soon as LRH died in 1986 a "new" bridge was made that took out four OT grades, the Original IV, V, VI, and VII. Now how to you expect to go OT with the OT Grades removed?

That is your Gat Tech. (See I'm being polite).

The last news out of the COS is that 95% of Dianetic Clears are now no longer considered Clear. That is Gat tech.

Gat tech is set up for "perfection" and everything takes a very long time. I knew of one person on E-Meter Drills for 6 months--come on, you will never get auditors that way. And how about the fiasco where Flag auditors couldn't see an f/n because they were trained with a machine that gave them f/ns to look at. Wow, that was great tech.

So we need auditors to clear the planet and training has to be done to perfection, so auditors train, retrain, and this all takes a very long time. The system is totally designed to slow the progress of anyone wanting to go free.

How many people have actually done BOTH sides of the bridge, through Class VIII and OT VIII? A handful.

So now OT IX is being released? I hope it doesn't turn out to be our missing OT grades under new packaging.

Good luck with Gat Tech. I'll take my chances in the Freezone.

Freezoner


33 months ago: $cilontology...literally...wants to 'sell you a bridge'.

Do you need a more obvious con than that?

$cilontology has been meticulously tweeked to become and remain a perpetual 'carrot on a stick'.

You will never arrive at what the $cilons promise since they cannot get you there...and never could...under any circumstances.

You are only supposed to spend all your money, time, energy, hope, etc. before you inevitably discover that YOU HAVE BEEN CONNED.

Elron the Con and, now Slappy Miscavige, only wanted the system to string you along until they got everything they could from you.

Also, after decades of trying, you are supposed to be so demoralized that you won't seek retribution for the crime of FRAUD that has been perpetrated against you.


The 'oldest' con in the world?

Why, it's 'selling someone a bridge'.

I think that is Elron the Con's giant joke to himself.

It was his way of giving all the following fools a giant middle finger and symolically shouting, "SUCKERS!".


"Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky."

-- Elron the Con
33 months ago: DeanFox says: "the TR exercises induce a state of concious detachment from external stimuli"

However, the printed word on the page that describes the exercises don't say that. Don't imply that. In fact, if you did that and your coach (your TR twin) didn't flunk you, he would be doing you a disservice.

Critics misunderstand the simplicity, provide complexity, and then state their complexity in the simplest possible way. But that isn't what the actual printed word on the page says.

I notice that Scientology's popularity doesn't cause any of the RantRave critics any pause. Not the slightest hint of "well, possibly I do misunderstand something, since many people understand it differently than I do". Not the slightest quaver from a straight ahead criticsm. Well, what can I say, today 20,000th, tomorrow 10,000th, and so on. Meanwhile Las Vegas is getting a Scientology Celebrity Center, larger organizations are springing up across the planet, public outreach grows more and more. Because it works, because people improve their lives.
33 months ago: I've noticed, Terry, you have a selective attention span. It is very reminiscent of Attention Deficit Disorder, wherin an individual has trouble focusing. I'm quite certain that with therapy and practice you can overcome this minor disability, possibly without medication depending upon the severity.

Terry, you're arguing minor semantics to again distract us from the actual argument. That's what guilty children do when they know they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Terryeo: "I've seen that opinion so many times and it is exactly backward. "The Church has benefited so-and-so". The Church has done this, has done that, has cured a learning disability, or straightened toes or made hair grow curly. That opinion is exactly, precisely backward."

Quite a clever twist here, the logical reverse of "the church has benefited so-and-so" is "so-and-so has benefited the church". While this is undoubtedly true for 99% of "so-and-so"'s it isn't what you understand is it Terryeo? (No of course not.)

Please address the above, failure to do so will be taken as an admission of inability to refute the above statement.
33 months ago: As far as the organization's popularity, I think that I find several Alexa stats particularly interesting. I cite Alexa as that is TerryEO's preferred method of tooting her horn.

For the past 3 months, the average time on site for viewers has been in decline. The only significant rise in average time on site was in May, preceeding the ad campaign and purely linked to the activities of Anonymous. Following that, it dropped and returned to its previous state of less than 2 minutes per visit.

Pageviews per user jumped in April, and declined after. Again, preceeding the ad campaign and purely Anonymous at cause.

Are more people coming? Undoubtedly. Is it the ad campaign? Evidence is not conclusive. Do visitors have a positive, negative, or neutral attitude before/during/after their visit? The stats Terry uses has no indication of any of that, but a decline in views/user and visit time to me indicates a negative attitude.

What DOES indicate the populace's perception of Scientology? How about a survey of their perception of the ad campaign!
http://www.mediacurves.com/Religion/J7477-Scientology/Index.cfm
Interesting how people's opinion DRASTICALLY declines the first time they see "Scientology" appear. The causal link is quite clear, people are NOT favorable towards your organization.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: Terryeo - "....However, the printed word on the page that describes the exercises don't say that. Don't imply that."

To paraphrase a popular cliché, "Well it wouldn't say that, wouldn't it?".

Obviously an exercise to subvert you in to a passive state of acceptance isn't going to say that's its intent. It merely gives you instructions and a plausible pretext to carry out those instructions.

Terryeo - "In fact, if you did that and your coach (your TR twin) didn't flunk you, he would be doing you a disservice."

Indeed TR twins are meant to flunk you if you appear "spaced out" or "not there" sometimes such things occur and they don't but the state to which I am referring is not that obvious externally (no dilated pupils of the junky for instance), except to the trained eye. Your TR twin would simply see you being passive, relaxed and non responsive, which is what you're meant to be doing after all.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: Terryeo - "Critics misunderstand the simplicity, provide complexity, and then state their complexity in the simplest possible way."
As a critic it is flattering that you feel the critics communication skills enable them to introduce "complexity" and then explain it in the simplest possible way.

I thought about complexity and decided that yes, I have provided it to you.

You understand how to do the TR routines. You understand the organisations' simple explanation of the benefit from doing these exercises: improved ability to confront without flinching, which in turn improves handling, which in turn improves communication.

I come along and tell you that L Ron Hubbard was a practised and very accomplished stage hypnotist. I tell you that the TR routines employ various methods hypnotists use to induce a "trance", which I explain is not quite the sleep state you imagine it to be, during which you become open to suggestion.

I further state that through repetition the brain becomes accustomed to going in to this state when presented with similar confrontation stimuli as used during the various TR routines.

I go on to explain how this works as part of the indoctrination process, why you don't notice how it's affected you and how it makes you both compliant to the organisation and insistent that the organisation is right.

Of course I've added complexity for you.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: You have a misconception though - "provided complexity" = wrong. This often derives from a misunderstanding of the Occam's Razor principal, which some wrongly believe is "the simplest answer is usually the correct one".

Occam's Razor is a principal for selecting from two or more otherwise equal hypothesis to explain the same thing. In its simplest form it says the simplest explanation is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account. Which is not the same as saying the simplest explanation is the best.

We're not comparing two equal hypothesis. Even if we were then the idea that Hubbard employed his demonstrable skill in hypnosis techniques when creating the TRs is not an assumption because you can compare the TRs to the hypnosis techniques Hubbard knew and see them employed through out.

Suffice to say the idea that what you perceive as provided complexity makes the data wrong because of your perception is false.
33 months ago: $cilontology has bilked hundreds of millions of dollars from people over the decades.

The CULT has many off shore bank accounts (like drug dealers).

The CULT could be paying for the Las Vegas org with TAX FREE funds that have been transferred back to the US.

The CULT is buying up property cheap during the Recession with TAX FREE cash.

The fact that the $cilons are attempting to build a Las Vegas org DOES NOT mean that $cilontology "helps people".

$cilons are constantly trying to spread...like CANCER.

CANCER spreads. And it DOES NOT "HELP PEOPLE".

$cilontology is a CANCER.
33 months ago: Also, 4cilontology is a massive PARASITE on society.

Imagine how much property you could have amassed if you had NEVER PAID TAXES.

How well would you be doing if you, like $cilontology, were LEACHING off society instead of paying your fair share?

$cilontology is a scam to get MONEY. It is NOT a 'religion' and never was.

"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."

- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384

"Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky." - L. Ron Hubbard to an associate in 1950, soon after the opening of the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation. (via Jon Atack, A PIECE OF BLUE SKY: SCIENTOLOGY, DIANETICS AND L. RON HUBBARD EXPOSED, Lyle Stuart/Carol Publishing Group. 1990)

33 months ago:
"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is."

- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in OVER MY SHOULDER: REFLECTIONS ON A SCIENCE FICTION ERA, Donald M. Grant Publisher. 1983



"Scientology...is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion."

- L. Ron Hubbard's "Creation of Human Ability" p251
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: Terryeo: "I notice that Scientology's popularity doesn't cause any of the RantRave critics any pause. Not the slightest hint of "well, possibly I do misunderstand something, since many people understand it differently than I do". Not the slightest quaver from a straight ahead criticsm. Well, what can I say, today 20,000th, tomorrow 10,000th, and so on. Meanwhile Las Vegas is getting a Scientology Celebrity Center, larger organizations are springing up across the planet, public outreach grows more and more. Because it works, because people improve their lives."

Oh please Terryeo we've covered this already. Your organisation's explosive growth is really a demonstration of a very rich organisation spending lots of money on buying more buildings, publishing more books, so on and so forth.

Hubbard left a good $450B - $850B (yes billion) laying around in everything from off shore accounts to holes in the ground; old romantic buried more than a couple of treasure chests early on "just in case" - well he was concerned about how he'd survive after a nuclear war.

Pretty sure Miscavige knew where most of the organisations' money was - even the huge sums Hubbard syphoned off - cos Hubbard took a shine to him when he was just a kid.

Wouldn't be surprised if the old goat hinted at or even out right told David Miscavige where he'd buried some of the larger deposits of gold, diamonds and other "primitive tradeables". Perhaps regaled the young Miscavige with fanciful tales of treasure in far off lands or some such. Then again Hubbard never really trusted anyone as far as I could tell so perhaps not.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: Anyhow, even if Miscavige only got his hands on the traceable readies and was a complete moron he would have a hard time frittering all of it away. Give him his dues he knew he was on to a good thing and managed to KSW for him.

Even now the money the organisation spends it claws back from members Terryeo, all that money needed to do all these things NOW for PLANETARY SALVATION.

Fact is most of your orgs are pretty much empty. Staff levels are at an all time low, which is why staff are being shipped all over the place for events. The principal executives featured in Freedom Magazine don't make loads of public appearances to refute the allegations of critics because, well they can't really.

Your organisations' recently purchased "Ideal Orgs" are mostly clapped out shells which require extensive renovation by members on the cheap, none of which has started in the UK incidentally; we watch them all and they're still dumps.

All your organisation is proving is that it has wads of cash, which it has obtained from members over the years; it's proving just how good it has been at reg'ing money out of members and how good it is now at getting even more out of it's dwindling membership.
33 months ago: What if $cilontology made a Truthful Video?

http://paidpublishing.com/what-if-scientology-actually-made-a-truthful-infomercial/
33 months ago: Very Well Done for the expansion!
Another step towards a cleared planet!
Justin Lake
Justin Lake
New York, NY
33 months ago: No response regarding my suggestion that the stories out of the St. Petersburg Times from June and Aug. 2nd-- documenting that the COS "Pope" David Miscavige is a violent lunatic that runs the COS like Goodfellows, with regular beatings of staff members-- is the reason for the alleged jump in statistics? The silence is telling...

In fact, time and time again Denise and her fellow COS staff members ignore the factual issues, lodge personal attacks and cast false assertions. Can't answer any direct questions at all, even concerning their belief system. Sounds like a cult to me.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
33 months ago: Terryeo is a classic example a obedient mind-slave Ronbot. Good Boy!!
LRH's own words prove the world's claims against Scientology.
"Scientology...is not a religion." - L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251.
Here is just .oo1 percent of the stuff you are not told.
LRH used God's Natural laws to make slaves of mankind!
"So long as a physiological phenomenon remains the knowledge of a few and is denied to the many it can be utilized to control the many." LRH (from Journal of Scientology Issue 4-G from Oct. 1952)
"This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we've got some new ways to make slaves here." LRH (from PDC tape lecture #20 "Formative State of Scientology, Definition of Logic", given on 6 Dec 52)
"All men shall be my slaves! LRH
All women shall submit to my charms! LRH
All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!" [L. Ron Hubbard, "Affirmations", late 1940s] Affirmations, exhibits 500-4D, E, F & G. See Church of Scientology v Armstrong, transcript volume 11, p.1886.

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM". You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them." - L. Ron Hubbard,

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
33 months ago: Ronbot Hunter just summed up the REAL purpose, thrust and intent of the Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT.

One of the best posts I have seen concerning The CULT.

It's all about MONEY, PU**Y and POWER.

Nothing else.
thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
33 months ago: LOL, all out of context!!

#1 is true. So long as the physiological phenomenon remains the knowledge of a few...etc., well of course, that is why he is making it well known!

#2 He was joking.

And god only knows what Ron did in the 40's --that was before Scientology. He never claimed to be perfect and he never claimed to be a god.

Geeze, bet you said something just as awful when you were young.

Freezoner
33 months ago: Elron the Con was not to young to know what he was saying when he is quoted.

Hubbard was born in 1911. He was a full grown man in the 1940's and beyond.

The quotes above give a very clear insight into his motivation and intention.

The fact that he developed a Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT in order to achieve the exact aims noted in the preceeding quotes, futher substantiates their validity.

He was a pathological liar and sociopath all his life.

Are you really a Freezoner or just another $cilon liar?

You are either seriously deluded or a bald faced liar.

The pathology regarding Elron the Con is very well established.

Do you believe in Xenu too?
33 months ago: What I actually believe, Oswald2001, is that you are unable to recognize help. L. Ron Hubbard achieved many things. One of them was an understanding that if you listen to a friend talk about his problems, he might resolve his problems. People do this all the time, don't you know?

The difference, and it did not begin with a huge difference but with a small difference, was the Mr. Hubbard defined listening, so you could listen to your friend and be helpful to your friend as he talked out and worked through his problems. Mr. Hubbard's ways of listening, when and what to ask, became auditing. And that was the foundation, ways of helping people, by listening to what they say. Not so different from what you might do, if you had a friend, Oswald.
33 months ago: Terryeo,

There is no 'help' available from a Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT.

If you have an REAL FRIENDS, they have told you that already. Trouble is that The CULT trains you to believe that anyone that tells you the truth must be a PTS or SP.

Let me tell you...there is no 'Bridge to Freedom'. Elron the Con is, even in death, still "selling you a bridge". One of the oldest cons there is.

The CULT people you hang out with are under the same delusions as you due to Mind Control. They are NOT real friends.

As it turns out, it is YOU that is "unable to recognize help". Hopefully, that will change.

Almost all, but the most psychotic and/or sociopathic, end up leaving The CULT eventually. Don't you ever wonder why?

Mike Rinder blew. He was right up there with Slappy Miscavige.

Marty Rathbun blew. He was also right up there with Slappy Miscavige.

The ONLY OT VIII in Norway,Geir Isene, just blew. What does he know that you don't?

Here's a nice message from Geir:

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/24-fair-game-reports-personal-experiences/norwegian-ot-viii-geir-isene-leaves-cos-due-its-corruption-lrh-tech-51083/


You didn't answer my question: Do you believe in Xenu?

33 months ago: Here is a Cut & Paste from Geir:

"To: relevant parties

Geir Isene's Doubt writeup on the Church of Scientology, 2009-08-07

My name is Geir Isene. I am a Norwegian public Scientologist. I became
a Scientologist in 1984. In 2006 I attested to OT VIII. I have had an
enormous amount of spiritual gain from my 25 years in Scientology. I
have seen similar gains in my family and friends and in countless of
others I have met and helped with the teachings of Scientology. The
gains are there to be had but can be suppressed by malpractice and
suppression of free will. After two years of extensive research, I
have decided to leave the Church of Scientology. I am not leaving
Scientology, only the church. In fact, I consider that the present
management is not practicing it's teachings, and that in order for me
to continue practicing Scientology, I need to leave the church and its
suppressive management. The management of Scientology is creating
massive bad PR for the technology developed by L. Ron Hubbard and
others. By equating the Church of Scientology with the Scientology
Technology, the church is lending it's bad PR to the technology
through its oppressive acts.

I acknowledge and validate the many good staff and public
Scientologists that are working assiduously to help others with
Scientology. I acknowledge that great results are accomplished. It is
hard work indeed. It is made harder by mismanagement."

Continued on next post.

33 months ago: Geir's message continued:

"Contrary to what we are led to believe, the church is not the fastest
growing religion on earth, there are not 8 million Scientologists and
the PR for Scientology is not good. It is in fact among the worst of
all religions {1}. This is not caused by "someone else". It is caused
by the church management. As one knows when studying Scientology and
attaining spiritual freedom, one is causing one's own enemies. It's
time to stop the technology of L. Ron Hubbard from being dragged down
by misapplication and the ensuing bad PR.

I hereby submit my writeup on sorting out my own doubts regarding the
church. I am a Scientologist. I will continue to help people with the
Scientology technology, but I am no longer a member of the Church of
Scientology. The following is a valid WOIM list. For explanation on
markup,see the WOIM definition page {2}. References in Appendix A."
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
33 months ago: Terryeo,

Talking to a friend is free.
Scientology is not.
33 months ago: Yep, talking to a friend is likely, free. And if you wanted to add to your methods of listening, you could buy, read and understand Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. Or get a copy from a public library. Or any psychologist could. How can you listen to a friend .. to better help them solve their problem.

That's how Dianetics begin and that information continues to be available for use. The book costs little. Your choice.
33 months ago: The $cilon approach is like the heroin pusher. "The first hit is 'free'".

Terryeo, you are AGAIN being manifestly dishonest.

You are LYING. You know that $cilon doctrine does not allow for "The Bridge To Total Freedom" (another $cilon LIE)by simply reading Dieuretics.

All $cilons MUST be dishonest since they are shilling for a Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT that is only a SCAM from the very beginning.

$cilontology is designed to start with reading Dieuretics and then to go on to further indoctrination as it is all part of the Mind Control to get the 'results' (which don't ever materialize).

Jason Beghe spent over a MILLION dollars following Elron the Con's SCAM and came up EMPTY.

Here is what Jason, someone with FAR more experience in The CULT than you, has to say about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok
33 months ago: "I never knew Hubbard, he was quite a good writer but I am afraid he went crazy and turned other people crazy"

- Sir Arthur C. Clarke
33 months ago: But the subject you address, Oswald, has nothing to do what what Scientology is. If Scientology were that blue wall over there, you would not be talking at all about that blue wall.

The subject you talk about is failure. And in doing so, you make every effort to bad mouth the wall.
33 months ago: Your entire CULT is a failure. And it is definitely 'off the wall'.

If $cilontology works so well, why did your founding fuhrer die with long straggly hair, unwashed, with long finger nails in an unkempt motor home with psych drugs in his system while on the run from the law?

If $cilontology works, why did Elron the Con end up in worse condition than a skid row bum?


Did you watch the Jason Beghe video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok
thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
33 months ago: Oswald, you are so bitter about Scientology. Perhaps we should be discussing earlier practices to Scientology?

It is hard to imagine how you could feel that strongly just from reading other's experiences.

We always hear the bad about Scientology, but even though I'm not connected to the COS anymore (away for 25 years) I have to admit that the most FUN I had in life was going to AOLA and doing the upper level auditing solo!! It was such a GOOD experience. Changed my life, too.

Opened up new vistas that I hadn't had before. I left the city, moved to the country. Truly a new life.

I will never quit Scientology. Only the Church.

Freezoner
33 months ago: Why assume I am bitter? That's certainly presumptuous on your part.

Quite simply, I am just running down exactly what The CULT is.

I have no problem with Freezoners.

I most certainly have a problem with The CULT of $cilontology.

More specifically, I have a problem with sociopaths and/or their minions dragging innocent/vulnerable people to their doom in that Evil CULT.

The Freezone can be a good...and positive...way to decompress in stages from the Hypnotic Mind Control of The CULT.

You will most likely feel far differently about the Freezone in the years to come.

Deprogramming generally occurs in stages over many years, decades or even an entire lifetime.

If you don't recognize the fact that the founding fuhrer of $cilontology was a stark raving mad sociopath and megalomaniacal pathological liar...your deprogramming has a ways to go.

I understand that CULT conditioning tends to be a 'super saturation' condition. Freezone can help in some cases, though not all.

BTW, Elron the Con did not discover one single thing. Including use of galvanic skin response (E-meter).

Elron the Con stole from others, renamed things in $cilon-speak and took credit from those things as 'his inventions'.

And he twisted and perverted their uses to further Hypnotic Mind Control in order to gain Power and Money.

Find an example of something that is 'new' or 'unique' or a '$cilon only' discovery that the Freezoners find 'positive'.

33 months ago: BTW, how many Freezoners believe in Xenu?
thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
33 months ago: Ok, "bitter" maybe isn't the right word. But certainly you have strong feelings against those you perceived to be harmful. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: how many "believe" in Xenu in the freezone--sorry, I haven't done a survey!

Personally I believe in Xenu the same way I believe in Jesus. Each existed. Each did some things and left their imprints on mankind.

I didn't meet Jesus, and I didn't meet Xenu. So I really don't have much to say about that.

Pat
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
33 months ago: You didn't meet Jesus or Xenu. Well, that's nice, nobody alive today has met Jesus, yet it is likely he is at least a kludge of historical figures who achieved mythic status.

Xenu, on the other hand, is a confabulation from a science fiction writer. You're telling me you hold a Galactic Overlord in the same regard as Jesus? Amazing.

Word clear 'gullible.' For pete's sake, the whole Xenu/OTIII story was the plot of Hubbard's 'Revolt in the Stars' book.

He just repackaged it to sell to gullible people for hundreds of thousands of dollars!

If you cannot discern any difference between Xenu and Jesus, there is no hope for you. Critical thinking skills, you have none.

It is at least possible that a Jesus-like figure existed. It is certainly bogus that a Marcabian Galactic Overlord brought frozen aliens to earth in DC8s that had rocket engines and blew them up in volcanoes 75 million years ago. Indeed, the volcanoes mentioned were on the Hawaiian Islands, which didn't even exist that far back in time! That is a scientific fact, whereas DC8s with rocket engines are merely an example of Hubbard's stunted imagination.

Hard geology vs. a second rate pulp fiction hack...anyone with even a moderate education can see through the scam!

It always amuses me that Hubbard urged his followers to "think for yourself" while utterly removing the ability to do so.
33 months ago: LOL. In reading to gather a handful of factoids that are beyond belief, Xenubarb, you have ignored the foundational strata upon which the supposed factoids rest. That the factoids are presented as supposedly stolen, supposedly unaltered, but supposedly legal should give you a clue, but you (and other critics) seem to read them as important, because they are not published by the Church of Scientology.

As Hubbard said in Fundamentals of Thought (an basic book): Scientology does not teach you. It only reminds you. For the information was yours in the first place.

These unbelievable factoids that you know to be critical Scientology beliefs, have really, nothing to do with how people gain by the study of Scientology. Because Scientology is about increased awareness, it is rationality applied into past events that were temporarily hidden in the trauma of past moments. You always had the data. Scientology helps you to view it, understand it, and re-categorize it.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
33 months ago: Um, it is not a "factoid" that the Hawaiian Islands did not exist 75 million years ago. It is fact. Scientific fact.

So when we find such a glaring error in your pulp writer's "doctrine," we cannot help but challenge it.

The DC8s with rocket engines are part of OTIII. That, too, is a fact, and one that demonstrates just how limited Hubbard's imagination was. Pity he didn't conceive of an Internet, as some of his contemporaries did. Because if he had, he could have taken steps to prevent the dismantling of his creation. Instead, he only has silly gits like you to hold the line with your sneering, arrogant nonsense.

Yes, your Whole Track stuff is funny. Of course I always had the data, lol. From my millions of lifetimes, I suppose.

It's an amazing demonstration of Scientology doublethink that you can dismiss scientific fact while talking about awareness and rationality.

BTW, have you heard? The Greensboro NC org has shut down for good. And Anonymous helped them with that.

The customer base for bad 1950s sci fi is waning, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, sure, DM can revise Hubbard's work even more, squirreling Source and getting the 50,000 or so remaining True Believers to buy the "improved" set of books.

And I bet you just can't wait to kick down $$$$ for the "new, improved" e-meter you will all have to buy to properly utilize the books, right?
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: Terryeo, care to comment on quote from Geir's doubt declaration as provided by Oswald2001?

Geir is one of a growing number of independent Scientologists, people who practice scientology according LRH for self improvement and to help other individuals attain self improvement outside of the organisation. To remind you Geir states:

"Contrary to what we are led to believe, the church is not the fastest growing religion on earth, there are not 8 million Scientologists and the PR for Scientology is not good. It is in fact among the worst of all religions {1}. This is not caused by "someone else". It is caused
by the church management. As one knows when studying Scientology and attaining spiritual freedom, one is causing one's own enemies. It's time to stop the technology of L. Ron Hubbard from being dragged down
by misapplication and the ensuing bad PR."

You should know my views of scientology itself do not coincide with Geir's but he is but one of the many who have left your organisation who will put scientologist on their census form in 2010. I suppose it's a form of graduation as a religion when you spawn your own disaffected splinter group, likely to be more popular than the mother church too by all accounts.
33 months ago: Well, I think that Thetagal and Terryeo have put the final 'nail in the coffin' in this thread as far as any credibility goes.

There should be no interest in the $cilon CULT or it's Freezone offshoots from here.

Excepting Raelians, of course.

But, then...they already have their own Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT.

All ya gotta do is keep $cilons talking long enough.

Eventually, they expose themselves.

Thanks, Thetagal and Terryeo.


Xenu is the biggest footbullet that the $cilons have.
33 months ago: The $cilons and the Raelians both have $pace Alien CULTS.

Why is it that the Raelians have not "pulled in" world wide protests while the $cilons have?

It is because of KARMA.

You can delude yourself and others as long as you like, but, The Laws of The Universe are still in place.

"As ye sew, so also shall ye reap."


Even Elron the Con realized that you "pull in" your own resistance when you are Out Ethics or Entheta...basically out of alignment with the truths of The Universe.


And you can't get any more out of alignment with the truths of The Universe than setting up a Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT for the sole purpose of bleeding as many people possible dry of their MONEY, time, energy, dreams...and their very souls.



And CULT member reading this?

BLOW! Go to the Freezone or Ron's Orgs if you like.

Better there than the 'church'.

You can leave the Freezone/Ron's Org's when you realize than you don't need them any longer.
33 months ago: Here's a good insight into the INSANITY of The CULT and it's minions.

Check out their definition of "reality":

***************************************

reality: that which appears to be. Reality is fundamentally agreement — WHAT WE AGREE TO BE REAL IS REAL.

***************************************

Really? All you have to do is agree? Hmm...that's convenient.

So, if the $cilons 'agree' that 1 + 1 = 9....so be it. To the $cilons, it is 9.

That's why Xenu is 'real' to $cilons.

That's why Elron the Con "never had a second wife" (even though he was on his third wife when he said that).

There is no sense arguing with CULTISTS that are so clearly psychotic.

This definition of 'reality' comes from a narcissistic/sociopathic mind...or far worse.



This $cilon definition of "reality" was taken from a $cilon site here:

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part14/Chp50/pg1023-b.html
thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
33 months ago: Hey xenubarb:

Oh, yes, Jesus is the good guy and Xenu is the bad guy. I know the difference. I still never met either one so it is all hearsay.

Religions have God/or Gods and devils or bad guys or enemies. One can expect that.

So how come you are so sure that Jesus existed but Xenu didn't?

Just because a science fiction writer mentioned it first doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Who in Christianity first mentioned the Devil? Word of mouth before much writing. You can't pick on a religion for their beliefs.

Pat
33 months ago: Pat, don't play the victim here. As Elron the Con noted, you "pulled it in".


Even though I am not a science fiction writer, drunk, drug addict, sociopath or pathological liar...I still think that will start my own religion.

I am going to base it on Calgon. Yeah, that's right...the line of bath and beauty products.

See, 76,000,000 years ago (before Xenu), Calgon - an evil Galactic overlord filled all the volcanoes on Teegeeack with his line of bath and beauty products and allowed all the inhabitants of the planet to have a good soak.

Then Calgon left, promising that he would one day return and take all the good Calgonologists to a big golden bath tub.

To this day, all Calgonologists cling to this promise which to found on the entire line of bath and beauty products, "Calgon, take me away!".

I plan on having an F-meter too. It's better than an E-meter. (And you can turn it up to "11".)

I'm gonna be using well known brainwashing tactics to ensure slavish devotion, fake 'church' tax breaks and maybe even a fake 'navy'.

The only question is...how can I hide all the money I'm gonna scam from the Suckers?

Well, I can always consult the $cilon model.
33 months ago: Here's a good insight into the INSANITY of The CULT and it's minions.

Check out their definition of "reality":

***************************************

reality: that which appears to be. Reality is fundamentally agreement — WHAT WE AGREE TO BE REAL IS REAL.

***************************************

You can make up anything...ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING...use hypnotic techniques to make yourself (and others) believe it...and it is 'reality' according to $cilon doctrine.

I have never met Calgon, but, you can't prove he didn't exist.

The $cilons can do this with anything! LOL!

The 'Son of Sam' killer tooks orders to kill people from his neighbor's dog. Hey...he BELIEVED it.

According to the $cilons. It was 'reality'.

Pat, use some $cilon tech to convince yourself that you can fly, get on top of a garage and jump.

Let me know how "WHAT WE AGREE TO BE REAL IS REAL" works.


A $cilon only has to 'agree that something is real'.

No matter how far fetched.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
33 months ago: You certainly can pick on a religion for its beliefs. Do you think the world rides on the back of a tortoise? That Earth was formed by the beating wings of Thunderbird? Or created by giants having a boulder fight? Or perhaps was formed from the rotting body of an Egyptian deity?

There is historic reference to biblical times. There was a great flood around the time of Noah. King Solomon existed, as do the ruins of the great cities and roads of the time. There is archaeological and geological evidence to support some of the tales in the bible. There is none to support DC8s with rocket engines and nonexistent volcanos.

It's also geologically unfeasible that some magic deity created the earth in seven days, or that the earth is only a few thousand years old.

Science disproves that. It also disproves Hubbard's Xenu story.

You have a brain, learn to use it. While scientists are working daily to uncover the truth about some of our oldest mysteries, you're wasting my time arguing about a sci-fi writer's fictional galactic overlord, which, if you missed the point, starred in Hubbard's Revolt in the Stars before he figured out people like you could be conned into spending six figure on the story! It ain't rocket science. But it is logic!

Looking at the Xenu story logically, your clues might be the nonexistent volcanos, DC8s with rocket engines, etc. But your big clue would be the fact that Hubbard tried to sell the story first as a novel, before making it part of his "religion."

But, the number one thing you should be asking is, "What is it a science fiction writer does? What is his nature?"

Another thing you should consider but won't, L. Ron Hubbard's own history of petty cons, false war hero claims, bigamy and lies. The fact that his own record is full of pathological lying should get your attention.

The sad thing is, it doesn't seem to.
33 months ago: "I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false."

- L. Ron Hubbard Jr.


"I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys."

- Elron the Con


"Benzedrine often helps a case run."

- L. Ron Hubbard


"[Scientology®] clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements."

- Judge Paul G. Breckenridge, Jr.
33 months ago: Ok, here's an update.

I have got off to a good start on my new Calgon religion.

I am also going to start an offshoot religious branch that worships kitchen mops. And brooms, but, mostly mops.

Kitchen mops can give you clear concise and unerring guidance through life. They can remove all obstacles in one's path.

With the proper use (and worship) of a kitchen mop, you will have 20/20 vision, perfect recall, no ties to the past and become a HOMO MOPPO NOVIS.

After all, according to the $cilons (members of a CULT founded by a sociopath, raving lunatic, drug addict, pathological liar, con man, etc.):

***************************************

reality: that which appears to be. Reality is fundamentally agreement — WHAT WE AGREE TO BE REAL IS REAL.

***************************************

You can make anything up and, as long as you believe it's real...it is real.


Wait a minute. Doesn't that sound delusional?

33 months ago: Once my Calgon and Kitchen Mop scam get going, I am considering a CULT based around toe nail clippings.



"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"

- Elron the Con


"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

- Elron the Con


Make money. Make more money. Make other people produce so as to make more money."

- Elron the Con
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
33 months ago: So, in Calgonology, how much does it cost to attest to the State of Clean?
thetagal
thetagal
Elma, WA
33 months ago: Hi, Oswald. Very clever comparable.

But LRH never said "you pulled it in." That was manufactured by staff Scientologists.

Methinks I am talking to a former staff member.

Just delete any past inference of "you pulled it in." It was a lie.

freezoner
33 months ago: "So, in Calgonology, how much does it cost to attest to the State of Clean?"
******************

Xenubarb, I'm thinking that I could charge something like 20% less than the $cilons to become Clear.

That would be a substantially savings when compared to The CULT.

With my Kitchen Mop scam...er, uh...religion...I would only charge 50% of the $cilon rates. In shameless appeal to the more budget minded.

The Kitchen Mop 'church' would offer a state of "Clean" vs. the "Clear" state of other 'churches'.


Thetagal, 'Staff' is an infection in more ways than one.

Also, you claim the 'pulling it in' was never said by Elron the Con.

To you, as a $cilon minion, 'reality' is whatever you "agree to be real".

So, YOU could be telling ANOTHER lie and, as a delusional space CULTIST, you wouldn't know the difference. Would you?

In order for you to believe in Elron the Con, you MUST be fundamentally DISHONEST.

You'll have to do better than that for those of us that live on the real earth.

33 months ago: At the centre of Crowley's teaching is the notion that we can control our own destiny: "Postulate: Any required Change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner through the proper medium of the proper object" (57), further "Every intentional act is a Magical Act" (58), "Every failure proves that one or more requirements of the postulate have not been fulfilled" (59). Hubbard taught that everything is down to the intention of the individual. He called such intentions "postulates". The victim of any negative event is said to have "PULLED IT IN". Hubbard taught a contempt for "victims" and regarded sympathy as a low emotional condition (60). As Crowley put it "Man is ignorant of the nature of his own being and powers...he may thus subjugate the whole Universe of which he is conscious to his individual Will" (61).
***************************

The above quote was Cut & Pasted from here:

http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/lrhoccult.htm

33 months ago: Thetagal, how much do you know about Elron the Con's use of many drugs, The Occult and Black Magick?

He was a follower of Aleister Crowley.

How does one, in good conscience, follow a loon like that.

Loon: Crowley or Elron the Con
33 months ago: "Postulate" does not equal "intention". Alas, these are different ideas. The English language uses different words for these different ideas. I use dictionary.com, but understanding is always personal.
33 months ago: Terryeo, skip the double talk.

What do you have to say about Elron the Con's use of The Occult, Black Magick, his association with Jack Parsons and hero worship of one of the world's worst scum bags...Aleister Crowley?

The "pulling it in" principle, was only one thing that Elron the Con stole from Crowley and others.

Elron stole everything he ever used or said. He usually renamed it and then tried using it in double talk.

Like you do.
33 months ago: Teenybabble, doublespeak, goodthink; spin and spam.
Run the gauntlet, become a ham.
Life abounds on planet Earth,
help another to know your worth.
33 months ago: "Teenybabble, doublespeak, goodthink; spin and spam.
Run the gauntlet, become a ham.
Life abounds on planet Earth,
help another to know your worth."

Awww, that's so cute, Terry! You have nothing to contribute to the discussion so you babble on in a poor imitation of spam. You string together a bunch of nonsense words, just like L Ron Hubbard (or like David Miscavige when he changes the words already written), and throw it up there. It's like a crappy imitation of Dr. Seuss.

Except your cult leader is still beating people, you're still engaged in child labor and human trafficking, your organization lies every time it opens its mouth, and the only reason people visit your website is because negative attention draws them there so they can laugh at your failure.

But hey, you're ignorant of the crimes, so you can remain in your blissful, childlike state-incapable of intellectual expansion or critical thought.

Have a nice day!
33 months ago: "Help another know YOUR worth"

Yeah. Well, that's a Freudian slip that reveals a egomaniacal self-centeredness.

A more enlightened approach would be 'Help them to know THEIR worth'.


This is a good insight into $cilon thinking.

The Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT is set up to suck out every bit of time, money, energy and the very LIFE out of as many victims as it can.

The 'worth' of an individual to The CULT is no more than what The CULT can GET out of them.

The CULT scam cannot be like it was in the past when they could much much more easily twist (like Terryeo and her babble), doublespeak, spin and spam.

Too bad $cilons. Your wretched scam is doomed.

Information is FREE.

The Internet is here!

With every transparent con attempted, with news of each abuse, with every story of a life ruined by The CULT...the world is becoming aware and informed about The CULT.

Elron the Con set up his Con Game in the 40's. He didn't know The Internet was coming.

The CULT cannot stand The Light Of Day.
33 months ago: No, Oswald, I'll stay with my created statement. Help another, know your worth.

But sure, I can see it, a person unwilling to help another would be unable to consider the consequence of helping another. And it follows, unable to see that helping another is a definition of their own worth.

But to sane people I would say; Help another, know your worth.
33 months ago: I can see how you'd stick with YOUR 'created' statement.

As with your sociopathic CULT founder, self-centeredness and general narcissism runs rampant within the overall CULT membership.

That is your weakest point and how the 'con goes on'. Your are enticed, caught and trapped by your own selfishness and self-centeredness. It's a ham fisted approach to your ego, but, it works well. No matter how clumsy.


As far as sanity goes...

YOU are in a Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT.

Hello?

Anyone home?

33 months ago: I can see that when name calling begins, you'll be right there, shouting loudly. Fortunately, today's internet allows many points of view. Bullies, unable to think clearly, have less audience than ever because they can shout more broadly. Goodbye. Anyone home?
33 months ago: Of course, your pathological liar training as a $cilon kicks in. Typical $cilon response. Lie. Twist. Spin.

Goodbye is good.

And don't come back as a $cilon.

Just because you have chosen to throw this part of your life away in a Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT, it doesn't give you the right to try to spread that sleaze to others.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

IF you ever leave that quite obvious SCAM CULT, maybe you can...

1.) Make amends for the people you misled
2.) Do some actual good


Until you wake up and leave that SCAM CULT, you really shouldn't post here...or anywhere else.

You lack even the most basic honesty.

The only people who buy the $cilon BS, are your fellow CULT members.

When the rest of the world isn't horrified by your Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT...it's LAUGHING AT IT!

$cilontology is a laughing stock.

Your posts are one of the reasons for that.


With all that said, I do hope you GET OUT...BLOW.

Hopefully, you will.

Until then, don't spread the CULT BS around.

It stinks to high heavens.
33 months ago: So often on the internet, we see someone creating an emotional statement. For those who understand your specialized words, Oswald, you appear to create such a statement.

But your message has little impact because it is couched in a specialized use of the symbol $ and peppered liberally with emotionally invective words.

Still, it might be possible you have an actual issue of the intellect to discuss. Governments and courts of law, after careful examination, have found the invective language that you use freely use, has little or no representation of reality. And so then, rule in favor of the Church practicing its religion.

Perhaps this explains to you why it is that I, or sometimes other Scientologists, reply to you (and other critics). I'm perfectly willing to discuss issues. But find no reason to see who can shout the loudest. Or whose phrases carry the most anger or hate. These kinds of things are simply "my emotion is stronger than yours!". War and strife have played that game for centuries. Religion has a more fundamental basis.
33 months ago: YOU LIED AGAIN. Like your pathological liar founder.

You're still here with your babble.

Here's a little something from your sociopathic pathological liar SCAM CULT founder:

"ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or LIED TO or destroyed."

- L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967 [SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]


Now, as far as the courts ruling in favor of your SCAM CULT, how about Elron the Con's own wife?

How many years in PRISON did Mary Sue do? Hmmm?

And why did she...as well as other SCAM CULT members...go to PRISON?

Care to explain that?


You said you were leaving. So leave.

Your pathetic attempt at spreading your pathetic Predatory Evil $pace Alien Mind Control CULT is NOT working.


More and more ex-$cilons are going public about your current fuhrer physically beating his staff.

What is it about your SCAM CULT that attracts so many sociopaths?
33 months ago: Here's some more legal opinions "after careful examination".



"Scientology is evil; its techniques are evil; its practice is a serious threat to the community, medically, morally, and socially; and its adherents are sadly deluded and often mentally ill... (Scientology is) the world's largest organization of unqualified persons engaged in the practice of dangerous techniques which masquerade as mental therapy."

- Justice Anderson, Supreme Court of Victoria, Australia

And yet another:



"[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific theories... and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with their sect.... The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard."

- Judge Breckenridge, Los Angeles Superior Court
33 months ago: Yeah. The courts just love the $cilon SCAM CULT "after careful examination".

Here's more. (There's soooo much.)



"Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious...It is corrupt sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based on lies and deceit and has its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard... It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestionably and to those who criticize it or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people and to indoctrinate and brainwash them so they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living, and relationships with others."

- Justice Latey, ruling in the High Court of London



"When a person is subjected to coercive persuasion [as in Scientology] without his knowledge or consent ...[he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide."

- - California Supreme Court, United States v. Lee [455 U.S. 252,257,258 (1982)*/:
33 months ago: Remember Wallensheim? The courts ruled in HIS favor to the tune of Millions of Dollars against your SCAM CULT..."after careful examination".


"Substantial evidence supports the conclusion Scientology leaders made the deliberate decision to ruin Wollersheim economically and possible psychologically.... We do not mean to suggest Scientology's retributive program as described in the evidence of this case represented a full scale modern day "inquisition." Nevertheless there are some parallels in purpose and effect. "Fair game" like the "inquisition" targeted "heretics." "Other testimony established Scientology is a hierarchal organization which exhibits near paranoid attitudes toward certain institutions and individuals---in particular the government, mental health professions, disaffected members, and others who criticize the organization or its leadership..."

Continued on next post.
33 months ago: Continued from previous post.


"During trial, Wollersheim's experts testified Scientology's "auditing" and "disconnect" practices constituted "brainwashing" and "thought reform" akin to what the Chinese and North Koreans practiced on American prisoners of war." "A religious practice which takes place in the context of this level of coercion has less religious value than one the recipient engages in voluntarily. Even more significantly, it poses a greater threat to society to have coerced religious practices inflicted on its citizens." "Using its position as religious leader, the church and its agents coerced Wollersheim into continuing auditing even though his sanity was repeatedly threatened by this practice... Thus there is adequate proof the religious practice in this instance caused real harm to the individual and the appellant's outrageous conduct caused that harm... Church practices conducted in a coercive environment are not qualified to be voluntary religious practices entitled to first amendment religious freedom guarantees." "We hold that the state has a compelling interest in allowing its citizens to recover for serious emotional injuries they suffer through religious practices they are coerced into accepting. Such conduct is too outrageous to be protected under the constitution and too unworthy to be privileged under the law of torts."

- California appellate court, 2nd district, 7th division, Wollersheim v. Church of Scientology of California, Civ. No. B023193 Cal. Super. (1986)
33 months ago: So, Terryeo...what are ya gonna LIE about now?

Here's some of the reasons the courts rule AGAINST the $cilon SCAM CULT.

United States v. Article or Device, Etc., 333 F.Supp. 357 (D.D.C. 1971) [regarding Scientology's "E-Meter"]:

"The bulk of the material is replete with false medical and scientific claims devoid of any religious overlay or reference." (333 F.Supp. at 361) "The Court's opinion directly and forcefully confronts the issue of claimed First Amendment protection by Scientology. The Court then held that the practice of Scientology was secular." (333 F.Supp. at 359

Commissioners of the City of Clearwater, Florida, public hearings, May 5-10, 1982. The Commission received documentary and testimonial evidence with respect to the operation, activities and conduct of Scientology. Based upon the sworn testimony of witnesses, affidavits, state and federal court decisions, and miscellaneous documents reviewed and considered, the Commission made the following factual recitation:

"Evidentiary fact:
The Church of Scientology is currently engaged in a nationwide conspiracy to impede and obstruct municipal, state and federal taxing authorities, by adopting a religious and charitable guise to avoid payment of taxes.
"Scientology's internal policies state: "They (the public) want ministers. We will show them what ministers look like" (Vol. 1 p.41). "Churches are looked upon as reform groups. Therefore, we must act like a reform group" (Vol.1 p.196).
"Scientology has nothing to do with religion. The Church did not adopt the religious guise until it was necessary to seek First Amendment protection (Vol.4 p.405).
"Scientology uses a religious image checklist designed to falsely portray a religious image to mislead officials (Vol. 2 p.238,239). "Church policy instructs members to lie to inquiring officials (Vol.1 p.226,227).
33 months ago: Terryeo, note the last line of the last quote.

"Church policy INSTRUCTS MEMBERS TO LIE to inquiring officials (Vol.1 p.226,227).

See? $cilons are known...trained...LIARS.


Just like you are, Terryeo.

It's the lying $cilon way.
33 months ago: Lying $cilons? You bet!


"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

- L. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418


"Scientology...is NOT a religion."

- L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251
33 months ago: Documentary evidence in Church of Spiritual Technology vs U.S., November 22, 1989
"The goal of the department [of governmental affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by a high level ability to control and in its absence by a low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control suchagencies." -- LRH
"The purpose of the legal officer is to help LRH handle every legal, government, suit, accounting and tax contact or action... and to bring the greatest possible confusion and loss to its enemies." -- LRH

"Guardian Order 060971" seized in FBI authorized search of Scientology headquarters:

"The vital targets on which we must invest most of our time are:
(T1) Depopularizing the enemy to the point of obliteration.
(T2) Taking over the control or allegiance of the heads or proprietors of all news media.
(T3) Taking over the control or allegiance of key political figures.
(T4) Taking over the control or allegiance of those who monitor international finance..."

Documentary evidence in the Armstrong case:
"You can be merciless whenever your will is crossed and you have the right to be merciless." -- LRH

California Supreme Court, in United States v. Lee 455 U.S. 252,257,258 (1982):

"When a person is subjected to coercive persuasion [as in Scientology] without his knowledge or consent ...[he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide."
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
33 months ago: According to Scientology "Reality" and "Facts" are the belief and real life experiences of the majority and opinions are the belief of those who have no firsthand knowledge.

Therefore, many people with no first-hand knowledge of Scientology can be made to believe any lie. In this website the RONBOTS will swear that the cult never hurts or abuses its own people and make many other claims, because each person that they bring in gives them a cult style referral fee.

Since the majority of Ex-$cientologists tell you that Scientology is a Godless evil cult, a scam and a fraud upon mankind. These RONBOTS will lie and deny this when you have no first-hand knowledge of the truth to know better.

There are more ex-scientologists now than RONBOTS, that overrules their "opinions" about Scientology being a religion.

Being an ex-scientologist myself for too many years, I have firsthand knowledge of these facts.

Scientology does kill, harm, destroy, hurt, abuse and totally ruins the lives of many within and without.

But since the tech has many merits it also helps many, until they can no longer stand the abuse and lies within the cult.

THE RONBOT HUNTER
All Rights reserved
33 months ago: There's nothing in the SCAM CULT that Elron the Con didn't steal from others...and then LIE...by claiming them as his own.

Anything 'positive' in the SCAM CULT can be accessed outside the SCAM CULT for FREE.

Anyone can know more about any aspect of the supposed 'tech' than Elron if they want.

Elron simply took pre-existing principles and used them as MIND CONTROL so that he could take take take take...all he could.

Elron used some "bait".

ALL aspects of the tech were stolen and can be found for FREE outside the SCAM CULT.

You can research for FREE on the Internet and find enough text, audio and video to last several lifetimes.

It doesn't have to cost $350,000+, ruin your life and the lives of others.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
33 months ago: Terryeo: "I'm perfectly willing to discuss issues."

Me: "Terryeo, care to comment on quote from Geir's doubt declaration as provided by Oswald2001?"

Terryeo:

Terryeo, as my posts show I don't get involved in name calling, nor do I become overly emotional despite my passion for this subject. We have discussed various aspects of your belief in what the organisation calling itself the church of scientology has you say do and think quite amicably. I don't believe I can nor intend to "convert" you, I simply seek to understand you.

I would very much like to discuss with you and get your views on Geir's doubt declaration, as an example of many.
32 months ago: Geir is free to declare anything he wishes. Today's internet provides means, feel free to tell him so, won't you?

Do I wish to comment on what Mr. Geir declares, according to Oswald2001's "quote"? No, first of all I didn't find Mr. Geir's declaration of doubt. And if I had, with only the one document and no knowledge of Mr. Geir, a comment would not seem appropriate. Removed from actuality by Oswald quoting an alleged snippet, it would be even less appropriate to comment on Oswald's comment, which (according to him) reflects Mr. Geir's comment. No, bathroom walls would just as reliable.

As I said before, I understand Ron Hubbard's words and his audience reactions quite differently than you.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
32 months ago: Thank you for your response Terryeo. You are correct Oswald2001's quote from Mr Geir's deceleration could be a fabrication. Oswald2001 could have fabricated it or someone else could have fabricated it and Oswald2001 merely faithfully copied it.

The difference between you and me in this instance is I know Geir Isene and have seen evidence of his involvement with the organisation calling itself the church of scientology, his certificates etc. Of course I could be lying. Indeed you believe I am trying to control you so I must be lying. No matter.

Fact is that in this instance unless Mr Geir came up to you physically, presented you with unequivocal proof of his identity and his involvement with the organisation and told you everything he said was what he believed you won't believe it. Even then I suspect you would be wondering if the man was merely an actor whose identity was based on false documents.

Even then if someone from your organisation came and explain how Mr Geir was always a trouble maker in the organisation, he lied, cheated and stole from it say, you would jump on that to invalidate his statements.

So when David Miscavige tells you something why do you accept it so blindly?
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
32 months ago: David Miscavige tells you your organisation is the fastest growing. He bangs out figures related to number of books published, number of buildings bought, etc. All of which I've tried to get you to look at objectively and to realise don't actually mean anything more than the organisation has a lot of cash, which given the huge amounts of cash Hubbard had stashed away when he exteriorized is not a surprise; Miscavige would have to be a complete moron to blow all the liquid assets Hubbard had laying around even in 24 years and I don't believe the guy is a moron.

Managed wisely your organisation should be financially self sufficient even if no one else gave it money the earnings from the assets alone could keep it ticking over.
I digress.

Fact is you don't applied the same rigid, some would say paranoid, degree of questioning with what your organisation tells you as you do with anything that goes against what you believe about your organisation.

This is because of how the organisation has condition you. You believe that anyone trying to convince you to leave the organisation is trying to control you and that people who try to control others lie to them to do so. Ergo you believe anyone trying to get you to leave the organisation are lying to you.

It's a masterful control mechanism, a brilliant piece of twisted logic that is practically impossible to unravel. Even by pointing out it's obviousness to you it doesn't make you think about it, it simply has you dismissing the idea as a lie by someone trying to control you.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
32 months ago: Terryeo: "As I said before, I understand Ron Hubbard's words and his audience reactions quite differently than you."

We're polls apart on this aren't we? You're on the inside having done everything according to how the organisation has you do it. I've never been more than on the fringe, along for the ride perhaps in the early years. I am not what Hubbard would say a "sheep".

In this respect and in these views I have a lot in common with Hubbards' surviving relatives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmq9nZnlnNQ
32 months ago: DeanFox, you consistently represent me as being inside, as mindlessly repeating what Scientology's CEO utters, and similar. Frankly that's offensive, as is "sheep" and similar drivel.

In general my postings are informational. Not intended to convince anyone, but to inform. People can take or leave information, that's up to them.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
32 months ago: Your "information" isn't worth the Telex paper it came in from RTC on. If we compare your offerings to those from Scientologists on other forums, there is a mindless, sheeplike, tedious sameness about them that alerts those of us who pay attention that another Scilon is spewing lies.

It's notable that you and your ilk never, ever recommend that people look at both sides of the story, only yours. That's a funny little tendency of cults, don't you know.
32 months ago: My,my... Terryeo has had the dictionary out again and yet, accuses others of using emotional words while writing about "mindless, sheep-like, tedious, spewing of invective and drivel." Quite a bit of emotion found in those words.
Also, I'm sure that Terryeo can probably find anything on the internet except Geir's doubt formula. Let me help with that:http://www.isene.com/files/Geir_Isene_doubt_COS_2009-08-07.pdf
A bit more than a "snippet" found there and so well written by the OTVIII that it is certainly more suitable for a place other than a "bathroom wall." That was particularly insulting to something so thoughtfully and well written.
32 months ago: The only "information" put forth on these pathetic $cilon propaganda attempts is to clearly demonstrate how delusional the $cilons are.

The $cilon baloney only flies with other hypnotized mind controlled $cilons.

The world's only Norwegian OT VIII woke up.

So...maybe some other poor $cilon will wake up too.

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