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Socialized Healthcare Is Defeated

Posted 29 months ago|38 comments|363 views
Written by
Siempre's and other rantrave.com fellow raver/ranters have seemingly been suggesting that anyone critical of Obama and his healthcare plans is a racist.

At first, I was a bit bemused by that response.

It has now occurred to me that when someone has no defense to a particular position and has been defeated, they take unsupported positions, such as yelling "Racism!"

When someone does not have a legitimate defense of or valid arguments in support of a position (ie. Socialized Health Care), they show their hand.

They yell "Racism".

I suggest Obama's attempt to socialize healthcare is finally doomed.

Phew! That was close.
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COMMENTS
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
29 months ago: I've no idea about the situation in the USA these days but having lived there for 5 years around 10 years ago I'd be surprised if Socialized health care ever got started. Seems to me too many people would loose out, medical insurance and drugs companies being the main two.

Am I right in thinking the average American believes that socialized health care would rob them of choice? Seem to recall it not being a very popular idea 10 years ago for all sorts of reasons.
29 months ago: Dean:

Socialized medicine is going down in flames, and the liberals are now left with saying all those opposed to it are racists.
29 months ago: Siempre:

When did you ever run away from an issue?

You are today.
29 months ago: Siempre:

Are you guys going to yell "Racism!" when we oppose cap and tax or raising taxes, etc.?

You guys are being disingenuous with the vacant refrain of "Racist".
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: The lack of a public option is not because of the powerless minority of windbag Republicans in the Congress. It's the fact that key power Dems are in the pockets of the insurance industry. Congratulation RSG, you got your wish and you'll get to pay more for your health care.
29 months ago: Mark:

That's another one of Obama's lies. I will not have to pay more than I already am for my health care. That is a flat out lie.
29 months ago: Mark:

I agree completely with your first sentence. You are probably correct with your second sentence.
29 months ago: Mark;

The "key power Dems" are also remembering what happened to them in August.
29 months ago: "That's another one of Obama's lies. I will not have to pay more than I already am for my health care. That is a flat out lie."

No, redstateguy. Sigh... Do you even pay attention year over year as your benefits go down and your premiums go up? Because it's happening to everyone on private insurance.

Or are you, by any chance, a veteran? Are you using socialized insurance right now?

In any event, the public option has a good shot of getting added back in during reconciliation. The progressive caucus is demanding it, and in the next stage of the process, they're the biggest players.
29 months ago: Why?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: The majority of Americans feel that their health care costs are going to go up which ever way it goes, public, semi public, or private. So they see no reason to give government bureaucracy more power for less service.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: I forgot to add,
At least with private health care, the only thing going up is health care. With government health care, everything is going up in price.
29 months ago: No kidding. Fire them all.
29 months ago: Heynnnnn.

No, my health care benefits are not going down. Period.
My health care costs have not gone up one penny. (I think, but I am unsure about that.)
I am not a veteran, and I do not (thankfully) receive VA medical benefits. (In Tennessee, the VA exposes veterans hepititis and HIV with dirty instruments. It is archaic.)
Yep, there's some socialization in my health care, and everything other part of my life, and it is sickening.

I understand you are correct about the public option being in the final law. Yep, I'd say you are correct.

29 months ago: Siempre:

Hhhhmmmm.
I thought it was Jimmy Carter, Heynnnn, you and others calling us racists. I do not remember saying "I am a racist. I am a racist."

My bad.


Your specific allegations about me being a lunatic may be correct, but how do I know?
29 months ago: RSG, only in their minds.......????

Let me clarify.

Your a NASCAR driver.
29 months ago: "The majority of Americans feel that their health care costs are going to go up which ever way it goes, public, semi public, or private. So they see no reason to give government bureaucracy more power for less service."

pretty much sums it up for me....

29 months ago: Wait, wait... redstateguy, you're on socialized health insurance and assistance right now, and your costs haven't gone up one penny? And it sickens you? Why don't you get off the government assistance rolls, then?

Oh, wait, are you in an economic situation where you couldn't afford to? What would happen to you if the socialized services you apparently don't hate enough to stop using disappeared?
29 months ago: heynnnn.

I would, but the government will not go away from health care.....at least until Sarah Palin is president.
29 months ago: Now redstateguy, that's just not true. You could turn down the financing and pay for every cent of your medical care out of pocket.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
29 months ago: RSG

The technical, out of the book action is "marginalize" right out of "Rules for radicals".

And why should RSG pay out of his pocket, when the Govt. already confiscated his money in the form of taxes.

"You take what you can from the Governmnet, when it has already confiscated from you." That is why Govt. run health care will fail, because everyone will run to the doctor because they feel it is owed to them, not because they are sick.

Not to say RSG you are milking the system, but how many millions of people will, just like they "milked" the welfare state the "War on Poverty / Great Society" during the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's.

They say they are gonna pay for it through stopping "fraud and waste." Well, why don't they stop it first?? Answer they can't, they won't because that is how they pay themselves, through plundering the Medicare coffers.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Hope you don't have long hair.


Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Fraud and waste. The only way I see that it can be stopped at this point is to make everyone jump through multiple hoops, and clear multiple hurdles to get any health care. The bad part is, we have to pay for the hoops and hurdles before we get the pleasure of jumping through them and over them.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
29 months ago: redstateguy: what exactly is it that you have against socialized health care?

I know why the drug companies and insurance companies would be dead against it but it would be interesting to understand why you're against it, assuming you're not a primary beneficiary of a drug or insurance company.
29 months ago: @DeanFox

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's the beneficiary of socialized medicine. He's said as much higher in this thread. I think he resents being on public assistance, and imagines he could afford the medical services he needs if he didn't pay taxes. Doubtful, to say the least.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
29 months ago: I suppose the question is open to anyone without an obvious self interest such as being a director or major share holder in medical industries that benefit from not having a social health care system. Why are you so against socialized health care?

What do you think will happen if everyone could have access to "free at source" medical care such as happens in the UK and many other countries? (Not that I think the USA could ever have such a system because there are too many self interest groups who would shoot it down before it got started).
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: "What do you think will happen if everyone could have access to "free at source" medical care such as happens in the UK"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123210

DeanFox
DeanFox
England
29 months ago: @ Out of The Box. A fair comment the NHS is not perfect, not by a long shot. One aspect of this story though is that the NHS, as a Government (tax payer) sponsored body, is under constant scrutiny. When scandals occur such as this action is usually taken. We also have a legislative body to deal with such issues.

Incidentally when in the USA I was looking at buying a fixer upper. Turned out this ram shackled house in Houston Texas, with holes in the floor and roof was occupied by 10 bed bound elderly people and a couple of live in carers. When we enquired as to what would happen to them if we bought the place we were told they would be gone. They owed $32,000 in property tax hence the "sale"; on contacting the right people the property tax was waived and they were allowed to stay. I digress.

Anyhow I guess you're suggesting standards of health care in the USA will drop if social health care was introduced.

Not sure how this can be the case since social health care will provide for those who cannot afford health care at the moment and therefore do not get any or they get sick and end up owing money for the rest of their lives.

Social health care will give people to option of "free at point of delivery" treatment verses a premium service which they can pay for; anyone with the means to pay extra can of course benefit.

The fact many do not do this in the UK, where private health care schemes provide a premium service suggests that for most the NHS is adequate for their needs.

Of course I've already stated a system such as exists in many countries like France, UK, Canada, is unlikely in the USA simply because too many self interest groups would loose out.

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