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Rave

Requiring Candidate Birth Certificates?

Posted 38 months ago|136 comments|1,036 views
Written by
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
Bill Posey (R-FL) is making his name known to people as he has written and now proposed a bill that would require all future presidential candidates to present their birth certificates upon submitting their papers to run for the presidency. He claims such a law would make the controversies that still swirl violently around the Internet as to the legitimacy of Barack Obama's candidacy would be eliminated. Of course, the fact that Obama released the copy of his birth certificate given to him by the state of Hawai'i proving his birth in Hawai'i has done little if anything to quell the conspiracists, but surely this law would put the whole thing to rest. Apparently, the good people of Missouri are making their own law that would require candidates to provide the same proof before being able to be listed on the ballot in Missouri. The whole thing is rather preposterous, but if it makes people feel better then let's do it.

It should be lost on no one, however, that Obama is the first legitimate person of color to run for the presidency on a major ticket, and he is also the first being accused of not even being a natural born citizen. But, no, there's no racism at work here.
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COMMENTS
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: Well, i think the bill is a great idea. Although, i thought Obama gave a CLB? I don't know, honestly, even if that's true, that's good enough for me. It's not like he's on the Taliban's payroll.

Does the bill have a lot of support?
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: So far, the bill has no co-sponsor which is a requirement.

Second, every state calls their document something different and the name hasn't necessarily been consistent through time.

See this interesting, unrelated but related, answer to the certificate of live birth question on wikianswers: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_a_certificate_of_live_birth_the_same_as_a_birth_certificate_in_Florida_A_friend_may_be_adopted
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: C'mon people, CO SPONSOR!

the Wiki thing is interesting
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ----"In Hawaii even foreign born children can have their foreign birth certificates filed in Hawaii."----- only under very specific conditions, and ONLY SINCE 1982. Since Obama was born in 1961, it is kind of foolish to expect that this applies to him. Don't you think so, Becky?

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Oh, and, CR it is quite telling that Posey's bill totally neglects to make the same requirements for the Vice President, yet under the Constitution, the VP is subject to the same requirements as POTUS. I guess Posey isn't interested in Biden's qualifications.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: Thank you Alferd P, it really does need to be put to rest.

Regardless, it should have been dealt with earlier, and if the American people wanted to see it, they should have voted that way.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: By Law, the COLB that Obama has made available is perfectly acceptable proof that he was born in Honolulu.


Birthers are cranks.

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: So, Becky, where in those earlier statutes does it mention overseas births? It doesn't.

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: One more time. The COLB is legal proof that Obama was born in Honlulu.

Becky, any court MUST accept it at face value.

You lose.

TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: Okay ladies and gentlemen! CHILL!

It has been thrown out of courts, and last i checked Judges are there for a reason! So Becky, they did either take it at face value, or just said it was ridiculous. If the courts have thrown it out, obviously the issue is laid to rest.

Let it go, he's in office. Maybe you guys should fight to legalize rape, murder, polygamy, et cetera, maybe the WHOLE SYSTEM is wrong.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...Obama has never shown his birth certificate..the one on the interenet is phony,,Hawaii has never stated word for word anything precise...only that they are in accordance with state law..Obama sealed his certificate because on hus "vault copy"..it will say he was born in Kenya...why doesn't more americans show some balls and demand this be settled..this is our frickin CONSTITUTION!!

...just saying,,he"s in,,"oh well"...is a wimpy lame cop-out!...cmon people ..thats not the "True America way" I know!
38 months ago: I know this is a side issue here but I don't feel you can pin this conspiracy theory completely on racism Coloranter. Mr. Obama has a pretty gypsy type upbringing in the respects of travel etc. I would be interested in whether we have had a President in the last 50 years who had a similar childhood as far as moving to foreign countries etc. and if so were there any questions posed to his citizenship. I think this childhood traveling may be some of what makes people nervous about his legitimate citizenship. Though I have no doubt there is some racism involved to some degree also.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...the simple fact that Obama will not willingly show his vault copy and has had it sealed makes him appear like he's gottem away with a loop hole...

...this is insulting to our constitution and all americans in general ...what the higher level of thought now needs to be is how to how legally request Obama to show his vault copy so we will know for sure he was born in Kenya and we can then simply appoint a new president...it won't be the end of the world,,,we will just learn from this and move on.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ..I'm just glad all true americans really do give a rats behind about our Constitution..we don't just stick our head in the sand when it comes down to something that could jeopardize anything!,,thats important damn it!
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: This bill sounds like a great idea, however it is a bit sad that because some right wing radicals will do anything (claim Obama was born in Kenya) to try and get rid of a candidate they do not like would make such a bill necessary. That being said this would certainly be a simply way to resolve such issues from plaguing future elections (especially for non-white candidates).
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...and your type doesn't appreciate what and why our constitution is what has allowed us to become the great country that we are..why don't we just do away with birth certificates and maybe have Arnold Schartzenegger become president with out amending the constitution?..
...or why don't we all just think like you for that matter and just say F+ck "our" constitution!..its just a little psuedo-concern ...

sorry.....not so...its a little more serious than that..and any red blooded american would and should ,,as far as I'm concerned ,stand up for "our" constitution if they had any comprehension of what it means to us..
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Moreover, disregard of the Constitution, especially as it applies to the highest political office in the land, is a serious legal matter. Those same people are similarly outraged that a man who wants to govern as President should believe that it is not necessary that he end this controversy by simply turning over the documents necessary to ensure his eligibility. Hiding behind websites, the Privacy Act, and threatening to punish and sanction those who seek the truth is only stoking the controversy and heightening suspicions that his birth and schooling records are hiding something that is either very politically damaging or which might end his short-lived Presidency.


Section 1. The Founding Fathers wanted to ensure that America was governed by someone who understood the unique history and political culture of America – they rightfully feared foreign influences, having fought wars with Britain and France. The phrase "natural-born citizen" was meant to ensure that the Presidency was never occupied by someone who was not fully "Americanized" and who would be loyal to the Republic and committed to defending its independence and hard-won liberties.

Mr. Obama regularly insults our intelligence by permitting campaign hacks to mislead the public with postings on websites that purport that his COLB (Certification of Live Birth), not even accepted by Hawaiian State authorities as evidence of a birth in Hawaii, is the same as an actual Birth Certificate (which like mine, typically includes a doctor's signature and a hospital, neither of which are on Mr. Obama's posted COLB). Mr. Obama's campaign fliers frequently touted his co-sponsorship of legislation with conservative Republican Sen. Tom Coburn – Mr. Obama, where is that spirit of transparency and openness when it comes to the raging dispute about your own birth and school records?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...your song is not only done ,,its over too,,for you and Obama,,its been a pleasure educating you about what the issue is here,,I'm glad you understand who the real "Massa" is here..its the people...and with these new laws,,,Obama will never see a second term because he will be forced to show proof...lets face it..I was born in america.I would show proof(vault certificate)...and if you were born in america you would gladly show it too..Obama will never show it and he also had it sealed...so when 3 years go by ..Mr. Obama will just have to hit the road ,,,ha ha ha
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: The COLB is indeed accepted as legal proof that you were born in Hawaii. It says so right n the document.

Dufus.

johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Alferd P. Einstien...thats the point Einstien..nobodies ever seen his colb...thats wat this is about,,that one floating around the internet even Hawaii said they cannot say for sure it's even a copy...MORON!
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Let me see if I can make this so simple that even you can understand it. --1--Independent observers from FactCheck examined the document and verified that it is indeed a stamped and signed document. --2--It is against the law in Hawaii to alter a certified document or to falsify a certified document. --3-- The director of the Department of Health, and the official state Registrar have the authority to examine any record in the files. --4-- The governor of the State of Hawaii is Republican. --5-- Every right-wing nutjob has been calling them noon and night claiming that the document posted on the Internet is a fake. --6-- Under your scenario, the state Registrar, the Director of the Department of Health and the Governor of Hawaii are all part of this vast conspiracy by Obama, otherwise why haven't they charged him with violating ---§338-30 Penalties. (a) Except where a different penalty is provided in this part, any person who violates this part, or neglects or refuses to perform any of the duties imposed upon the person by this part, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Any person who wilfully makes or alters any certificate or certified copy thereof provided for in this part except in accordance with this part, shall be fined not more than $1,000, or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Hope this helps.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Alferd P. Einstien.....well its a good thing your conclusions are correct..and since everybodies seen it and if fact check says it its true,,it must be true then...

...but just to make sure..its also a good thing Obama had it sealed.. just too satify you even more..

...thank you once again Einstien for your amazing insight ..ha ha ha...I guess we can just forget about our constitution and become communists like you would hope..

...
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: no one "sealed" anything. Privacy laws protect EVERYBODY even the President.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: .Alferd P. Einstien..Einstien,,you are a real genious..it looks like like your starting to get whats going on..but you might want to educate yourself a little more about what happened when Obama left Hawaii seeing his granny for the last time in 08 before she croaked

...think about it...my Colb isn't sealed and I'll bet neither is yours????...Obamas had his "sealed"..check it out for yourself...
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: please elaborate on this. How exactly is it "sealed?"
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Johnny, does the State registrar have the authority to inspect the vital statistic records under his controll?

What about the department head?

Don't they have the authority to inspect the records that it is their duty to maintain?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...yes..they have the authority,,,but ,,like you said,,due to the privacy acts,,,and Obama has made them very clear on this before he left Hawaii..they do not have the authority to disclose the information thats contained on it(vault copy)
Hawaii has covered there **** legally in this situation..and if you read word for word what they"ve said..or more importantly "haven't said"..All the Gov/State dept has stated word for word..is that "they have it"..and that "they are in accordance with all state laws"
Usually the title of an article will say "Obama born in Hawaii"..when this is read by some one...they assume automatically ..that is not what Hawaii has said..they have said everything but that,,
Now I hope I don't have to go into explaining about bablies born to U.S. parents outside the country and brought to the U.S. and obtaining a birth certificate..all states have these "provisions" in there state laws..
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Its really obvious by now that Obama does not constitutionally qualify by being a natural born citizen

..the problem is the longer this goes on ..the more things that will have to become "null" and void while he's in office..let alone our troops in the military now that are starting to revolt against a commander in chief that isn't even qualified
Like I said earlier..its not the end of the world,,he'll (Obama) either resign, or have to be impeached under the circumstances. a new president(not Biden) will be appointed in a situation like this.. and we will all learn from this and make sure it doesn't happen again is all.
But the sooner the better so theres less that has to be "undone".
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: So, you agree that they have the authority to examine the original document.

I think it is pretty obvious that hundreds of people have contacted them asking if the COLB posted on internet is accurate or not.

While they can't publicly comment on that, I think it is safe to say that they have looked into it.


If Obama has posted a fake or altered COLB, then they would know it, right?

In this case, Obama would be guilty of a crime under Hawaiian law, don't you agree?

Why hasn't the Republican governor and her appointed head of the DOH said anything about this?

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---"Now I hope I don't have to go into explaining about bablies born to U.S. parents outside the country and brought to the U.S. and obtaining a birth certificate..all states have these "provisions" in there state laws.."---


As a result of federal laws passed in 1980. These provisions did not exist in 1961.

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: You still haven't elaborated on how the document is "sealed."
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...jeez,,do I have to educate you on everything?..do a google search on "hawaii seals obama cerificate"..and draw your own conclusion

..in response to your question about why the governor hasn't exposed Obama. ,,and I think she should.Its because it is a "legal" matter,,birth certificates are a privacy issue..she'd get in a load of sh*t if she violated the law. She wouldn't risk it..and think about it,,Obama is from her state...so regardless of partisan viewpoints,,it wouldn't be the politically correct thing for her to do.
Even I think it should be the Supreme court Justices who should show some balls in this situation.
Let me ask you something..are you ok with the
Obama not being a natural born ,,and possibbly an indonesian citizen from where he went to school in Indonesia under the "Alias" name of "Barry Sutturro?..do a google on that one!.. Obama admits it himself in his book!..I think America really needs to wake up on this one!
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: You people are crazy.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html


Just read it. what more do you people want, would you like him to mail it to one of you, and then allow you to mail it on and on like the traveling pants? i think not.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ..yes were crazy..crazy enough to not be fooled

...what people want to see is his "vault" copy...this is a written transcipt by the doctor who issued the cerificate..this will state that Obama was born outside the country to a U.S, ctizen got it?

,,,and yes,,,I wish they would mail it...but,,as you know,,,Obama has had its been "sealed"...how convenient...
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---”...jeez,,do I have to educate you on everything?”---

I don’t want you to try to educate me on anything. What I want is for you to educate yourself. I want you to think this through and argue your position based on your own thoughts, not those of others. Present you case in your own words. If you want to cite specific statements, made by others, laws, statutes, etc. go ahead. Indicate that they are quotations, and link to your source.

Otherwise you are coming across as a dittohead, parroting back what you have heard without thinking about it. Prove to me that you have though this through and understand the issues you are talking about.

---“..do a google search on "hawaii seals obama cerificate"..and draw your own conclusion”---

My conclusion is that there are a bunch of lemmings frequenting those echo chamber sites that are unable to think for themselves. They blindly echo back nonsense from circular logic and fail utterly to convince me that they understand what they are talking about. Are you one of those, Johnny?
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ----“..in response to your question about why the governor hasn't exposed Obama. ,,and I think she should.Its because it is a "legal" matter,,birth certificates are a privacy issue..she'd get in a load of sh*t if she violated the law. “-----

She would get in a lot more trouble if it came out that she blindly ignored the law. It is against the law to alter or forge a certified document in Hawaii. If Obama did that, then the Governor is duty bound to prosecute.

She doesn’t have to publicly release the original to do so.

So why doesn't she?


Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---“and possibbly an indonesian citizen from where he went to school in Indonesia under the "Alias" name of "Barry Sutturro?..”---

Why don’t you google up “Perkins v. Elg,” read it and get back to me afterwards so that we can discuss this issue further.

Or just read it here:

http://supreme.justia.com/us/307/325/case.html


Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---“...what people want to see is his "vault" copy...this is a written transcipt by the doctor who issued the cerificate..this will state that Obama was born outside the country to a U.S, ctizen got it?”---

According to the state, he was born in Honolulu. Why would the “vault” copy be different?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...well..again,,if you don't understand the "vault copy" thing than I guess this will never make sense too you..all I can say is your in for a rude awakening!

..as far as the alien thing in Perkins vs elg...theres a few other things about his mothers age etc that are a requirement also,,same thing ..a rude awakening

johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Elferd P. Newman.......According to the state, he was born in Honolulu

......WOW..OK I guess that settles it then...Einstein,,,you are a genious
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Heres a link to a radio interview of Attorney Berg who explains the age requirement of his mother when it comes to babies being born outside the U.S.
...hopefully if you listen to law and educate yourself this issue will make more sense..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Mg9gW7Pq8&annotation_id=annotation_557589&feature=iv
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...just to add..I am fully aware Bergs case has been dismissed due to "standing"..which is really just a judges way of saying ,,I need more info..

...well trust me ...more lawsuits are comming..and its my prediction that it will take our troops in the armed forces to revolt against Obama on the grounds he is not qualified and therefore is not the commander in chief.

...if more americans would unite on this and simply request Obama to show proof..his orig "vault" cirtificate from the doctor that certified it,, he is qualified,,,we will not have to jeopardize our security with our men in uniform refusing yo follows orders!
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: OK, Johnny, if you're so smart, then please explain to me why you think the COLB will say anything different than the "Vault" copy. Since the information on the COLB was taken directly from the "Vault" data, transcribed to the COLB, and certified as true by the state, what's wrong with that?

Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Jakarta99 wrote: "I think this childhood traveling may be some of what makes people nervous about his legitimate citizenship. Though I have no doubt there is some racism involved to some degree also."

Hmm, I don't see how that's possible. McCain was born in Panama and no one questions his citizenship. Why would traveling abroad have anything to do with anything? Your citizenship in almost every country is based on being born there. Many countries even have laws that state if you are born there even by foreign parents, you are a citizen of that nation. Some of these countries allow dual citizenship and some don't. The ones that don't force the person to choose upon reaching the age of majority.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Johnny from Sacramento wrote, "...Obama has never shown his birth certificate..the one on the interenet [sic] is phony,"

Uh, dude, the COLB posted on his website is real and authentic. It has been verified time and again by people who've actually touched it. Is the only thing that would make you believe it is if you could be taken by Air Force One with Obama to Hawai'i into the vault to see it with your own eyes? Come on, this is pathetic.

Johnny Wrote: "Hawaii has never stated word for word anything precise"

Also not true. If you get your facts from real news sources instead of shadowy blogs you would see that this is not true.

Johnny wrote: "Obama sealed his certificate because..."

If it was sealed it was probably to ensure that nut jobs could never get in and try to either destroy it or alter it. Think about it!
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Uh, no, Johnny, the founders wanted the nation to be ruled by people who would be loyal to the USA and not some other nation. Given that the first 11 presidents were not born in America because there was no America when they were born, this was especially challenging to ensure they were loyal to the USA and not Great Britain. Now days? Do you honestly think that Obama is not loyal to America? Even if you believe that this poor, college student mother was so brain damaged as to want her son to be born in Kenya and somehow raised the funds to fly there for him to be born all of which is pretty illogical, do you really believe that Obama isn't loyal to the USA first and foremost? I think he's more loyal to American than Timothy McVeigh ever could have been. Your comments are passionate, but misguided.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Actually, given the paranoid isolationism and extreme nationalism of the Suharto years, it is highly unlikely that Barack would have ever qualified for Indonesian citizenship. Certainly not at the age of 6.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Johnny wrote: "Alferd P. Einstien...thats the point Einstien..nobodies ever seen his colb...thats wat this is about,,that one floating around the internet even Hawaii said they cannot say for sure it's even a copy...MORON!"

Johnny, I don't know from where you're getting your facts? Again, are you getting your facts, since you don't cite links, from shadowy fringe blogs? Real government officials and real journalists have seen the real document! But again, it seems the only way to convince you would be, as I say, fly you to Hawai'i on board Air Force One with Obama, and go with him to see the document since they'll only show you the original with him there.

You know what? I wish I had the money and the political clout to arrange just that. I'd pay big money to see the look on your face when you see the actual document and realize how foolish you've been. Come on, really?
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: CR- Even if Jesus Christ himself were on that flight, Johnny still wouldn't believe it.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...cmon..lets face it..Obama will never show it,..he would of by now,,

...you would show it..I would show it,,Even McCain showed his,..any natural born citizen would show it,

..well I forgot..your Einstein,,maybe you wouldn't show it.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Johnny, how many times do I have to tell you this. The COLB is the ONLY document that the state issues these days. He has shown it.

Why can't you accept that simple fact?

It's all right if you don't like the man or his politics, but do not try to legitimatize your hatred based on this nonsense.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: Johnny i have a suggestion for you, write your own rant, lay out your arguement, back it up with evidence, and then lets see how you do.

Now i am by far not a dem, actually i'm a registered rep. and voted for McCain, but i think you should understand that the country voted for him. I think at this point, if you made death threats towards the president it may legitimize your argument more then you have done here. Which is scary, since death threats have nothing to do with COLB.

Anyway, take my advise, write your own rant, laying out all of your evidence (cite it from scholarly sources) so we can all follow and understand you irrational and common point of view.

Cheers

(incase you were wondering, this nasty comment was spiked from the 20 emails of your rubbish Mr. Johnny going back and forth with no coherent aim except irrational hatred).
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Here, here Tom Wing! I agree, Johnny should write his own rant with citations from scholarly sources. Except, he won't be able to cite any scholarly sources because there are none that believe that Barack Obama is not a citizen.

Look, Johnny, seriously, do you think that a Military Hero, and former POW, long-time Senator and several time candidate for President, the honorable Senator John McCain would have allowed in no uncertain terms for a non-natural-born citizen to run against him? Do you not think he has powerful enough allies in this government to have found and released proof that Obama was born in Kenya if it existed? How on earth could have Obama have orchestrated this? How could a little known Senator from Illinois have convinced the power forces in the right wing to over look this little detail just this once? My gosh, Rush Limbaugh has over $400 million. With that much spare cash in hand wouldn't Rush Limbaugh have spent what ever it took to prove Mr. Obama was not born in the US if he could have? How about Bill O'Reilly? Wouldn't they have pooled their resources if they could have? Honestly, this is so silly.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ..At least Bill Posey's bill will hopefully make sure this doesn't happen again..

..we will have to wait 3 and 1/2 years for Obama to "put up"..or step down

I beleive even Obama knows he constitutionally does not qualify, thinking its "just a minor thing" ,now he has the privacy law to protect him.

...like I said,,it will be the Armed forces ultimately revolting enough to pressure Obama or the supreme court justices on this

..I'm ashamed that you as americans(I'm assumming you are) wouldn't at least want a justice to look at this and make sure!

...why don't you just go live in some other country and be a good nice loyal communist,,
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ----"At least Bill Posey's bill will hopefully make sure this doesn't happen again"----

That bill is DOA.

He can't even find a co-sponsor.

Fugettaboutit
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---"we will have to wait 3 and 1/2 years for Obama to "put up"..or step down"

No, in 4 years the GOP will run a Palin/Jindal ticket and lose again.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---"...like I said,,it will be the Armed forces ultimately revolting enough to pressure Obama or the supreme court justices on this "---

You are seriously out of touch with reality, my friend.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...do you really think this is going to go away?

...Fugettaboutit
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Oh, I hope not. I hope you birthers continue to amuse the rest of us for the next few years.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: (hee hee)...alright,,,we'll do the best we can for ya'
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Oh, here is something you should look at.

http://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/birth_certificate_2.jpg

the best image I have seen of it.

Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Wow, Alferd P, that's the best image of it I've seen as well. Good find.

So, Johnny, I take it you're not going to publish your post with scholarly citations that both Tom Wing and I have asked? Why not? I say you put up or shut up. You cannot put up any scholarly citations though can you? Because the only evidence you have for your case is out there in conspiracy-hypothesis blog-land.

Let's play a game. Let's pretend I'm your boss, and I hold the keys to your life-long dream job. But, to get it, you must prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt, you are a natural born citizen. So, you give me a copy of your birth certificate, and I say, "Nope, I want the original, not a copy." And you say, "Um, Sir, well, they won't give me the original. It's at the Vital Records Bureau from my home state. But they tell me that the raised seal and special paper is proof of its authenticity." "Well, too bad, it's a fake, I want to see the real thing. Get it unsealed and brought to me or you'll never be hired."

See where I'm going with this. But worse, I sit here right now in complete belief as I wrote above and to which you have not responded, that if you had the original in your hand, you would say it was fake. You would say Hawai'i made it up. You would still swear that Obama was born in Kenya. Which leads me to the question, of why? Why do you think that? Do you think that because you cannot believe that Barack Hussein Obama II could ever be elected president? Would you feel the same way if he were a dyed in the wool red Republican elephant? Is it because he's biracial and you never thought a biracial person could be elected? Is it because you don't like the fact he as to kids? Is it because he was born in Hawai'i, and you don't recognize their statehood? Is it because you have irrational fears that someone else is in control of the world? What? What is it? I want to know why you are so convinced of this point.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Say Johnny, do you believe in the existence of Jesus Christ?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...yes..thats a beautifull picture...now go to to this website and see every discrepancy..these are the exact facts being presented to the courts...your going to love it!

http://www.obamacrimes.us/Web%20pages/thebirthcertificate1.html
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: It really sounds like you have everyone that didn't vote for Obama or thats questioning his qualifications made out to be some kind of racist or hater,,,thats too bad for you..(remember,,Attorney Berg like lots of others are lifelong democrats)

..I think Obama has been the best thing for america and I actually agree with Colon Powels statement that Obama represents a "new type" of president that will be of the future

...believe it or not ..my real beef is twofold,,first and foremost,,I'd like to know the truth!...this is the
fr+ckin President of my country for cryng out loud!...and secondly,,my beef is with the enforcement of the constitution which I think supercedes everything else. I could elaborate on how important it is but I realize most people are not educated enough to realize how its gotten us to this point,
If everybody wants to vote to amend the constitution,,Im fine with that,,thats the american way too,..but for now,,it is the way it is.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: The answer to "What's on Barack Obama's real, original birth certificate" ranks right up there with some of the great mysteries of our time -- and that is really hard to swallow. That a man has been elected to the highest office of the greatest superpower in the world without ever having to prove who he says he is! That is not "nutty," that's just plain insane!
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Hawaiian officials have confirmed they have a birth certificate on file for Obama, but it cannot be released without his permission, and they have not revealed the information it contains
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Johnny, you ignore my comments and questions. Do you get your training from the man himself, Rush Limbaugh? Rather than answer my questions, you ignore them and move on with your train of thought. Why is that? Is it because you know you have no case?

There is more proof that Obama is a natural-born citizen of the USA than that Jesus Christ existed. But, you choose to believe what?

Second, thanks for directing us to yet another Ron Polarik site. The man, not just his work, has been debunked. And, the image that Alferd provided for you is not the one that Polarik attempted but has been proven time and again wrong in his points of analysis, it is a newer one.

What neither you nor Polarik, who apparently is your source of information, and thanks for actually admitting it, is that Polarik has never had his hands on even the copy that was scanned. He's only had his eyes and computer on the scanned image. Actual, real, fact-checking people have had their hands on that real document. They've seen and felt that raised seal. They've seen and verified the paper. You can read their stuff if you'd visit the links we've given you. But, rather than believe people who will come out of the closet and admit who they are, you prefer to believe the nonsense of this Polarik person. A shadowy figure, who's got zero credentials and even has no credibility among the right-wing news outlets.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: What's on Barack Obama's birth certificate is what's on his birth certificate which he has provided you with a scan of. What more can he do? You do realize it's impossible to get a legal US passport without a birth certificate? You do realize that states require you to present a bc to give you a drivers license. And so on. You do realize that the people of Illinois would have been the first to know if he wasn't a citizen when he ran for state and then federal senate. Long ago, any one of his opponents would have come up with the proof if there were any that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen.

Finally, there is one person on this planet who, if there is proof that Obama is not a natural-born citizen would have spent more money and done practically anything to prove it if she could have, and that is Hillary Clinton. No one would had more to gain than she. Don't you think she would have proved it if she could? Don't you think she wanted the nomination badly enough that if Barack Obama was not born in Hawai'i she would have found a way to prove it? I can think of no better proof than that.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: And lastly, I resent you implying that we don't care about the Constitution. I am the one who wrote a rave about the Constitution which actually implored every person in our country to read it before they fly off the handle on rights issues that aren't even in it. I was born in the city and county of Denver. I love this country and the Constitution. And I wouldn't want it changed so that Arnold could run. And I wouldn't want Barack Obama to be President if he weren't a natural-born citizen. But, so far he's gone way above and beyond the call of duty to prove it. We never saw George W. Bush's birth certificate. How do I know he wasn't born in El Salvador?
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: Coloranter your comment on passports has spiked an idea from me.

Security for the President is crazy, right? Yep, so, when he travels to another country (With passport in hand), I'm sure they need to make sure it's him. Right?

You need a SS#/Birth certificate, etc to make sure!
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ....We never saw George W. Bush's birth certificate. How do I know he wasn't born in El Salvador?

...good point..we don't know...duh?..now you get it?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...sounds like your of a common thinking that goes something like "they must have checked" or "it was checked"

..well read my lips!...knownody ever checked !

..a phony birth certificate is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands,..you might even be able to become President of the united states,

...you of all people sound like you would want to know for sure,,

It is simply untrue that WND ever "authenticated" the document on Obama's campaign site. First of all, we would have to examine the original document, not a web posting, to do that. Second of all, assuming it is not a fraud, which is more than I would assume, it proves nothing about Obama's actual place of birth, for the reason stated above.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Xinunus wrote "HAWAII in the 60's GAVE OUT LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATES TO BABIES BORN OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES."

Uh, sorry but that's not true. It's a myth being spread by people like you.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Either way..the Doctors long form will say for sure, and thats what this is all about,,

...So continue being proud of your Kenyan born President and supporting the constitution like the true american you say you are..ha ha ha
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Barack Hussein Obama could put the issue to rest right now by simply releasing his ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE!

But he WON'T release his ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE. In fact, he is actively RESISTING efforts to compel him to release his ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

He's dug in his heels. He has teams of lawyers fighting efforts to get him to release his ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, while his underlings look down their noses at the American people. (that includes you Coloranter)

And the one pivotal question that those who attempt to dismiss the controversy cannot answer is:

If Barack Hussein Obama has nothing to hide, what's the problem? The more he resists, the more you have to wonder
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Please understand, no one is saying that Obama is NOT a "natural born citizen." What we're saying is we just don't KNOW, BECAUSE BARACK "MR. TRANSPARENCY" OBAMA WILL NOT RELEASE HIS ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: here it is, Johnny

http://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/birth_certificate_2.jpg

If it's good enough for a court of law, then it's good enough for me.

I believe in the rule of law, not mob-ocracy.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: here as well

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_2.jpg

johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ..great..I guess factcheck is your god..so what?

...heres what a real hawaii COLB would of looked like in 1961,,ask factcheck about that...what a sucker you are!,,.ha ha ha

http://www.cfourstrategies.com/colb.jpg
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: You do understand when I tell you that the State of Hawaii only issues COLB printed from their digital database.

No matter when you were born.

All the data is in the database. It is how they do things now and will do so in the future.

No more hard copies from now on.

The data is entered into a computer at the hospital itself.

Everyone who requests a BC will recieve a COLB just like Obama's

EVERYONE

It is the only form that they issue.

It is acceptable in ANY and EVERY court proceeding requiring a BC.

You lose again, Johny
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Oh really?...but we don't want to see the COLB Heferd (the orig would be nice)..its the vault copy that will have the natural born info.

...do you see...you already lost my friend,,ha ha ha
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Everybody knows that Mr. Obama's legal team is doing everything that it can to make sure that no one has access to his college records also!

We do know that Dr. Jerome Corsi traveled to Kenya to see if he could find a birth certificate for Mr. Obama, but was detained by Kenyan officials!

The voters of the United States have the right to know whether Barack Hussein Obama is a "natural born citizen," as REQUIRED by the U. S. Constitution!

It's a question that MUST be answered!

Simply stated, if an unqualified person were to be elected President of the United States, our entire form of government could be compromised!

Why? Because, if Barack Hussein Obama is not eligible to serve as President of the United States, each and every act that he takes will be null and void! That's right, each bill that he signs, every Executive Order that he signs, and each nomination to his Cabinet and to the federal courts that he makes will have no legal effect!

I don't make that statement lightly. It's not an exaggeration.

Liberty and freedom are not the rule in this world. And it is up to each and every one of us to do all that we can to protect OUR liberty and OUR freedom in this great country!
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: ---"Everybody knows that Mr. Obama's legal team is doing everything that it can to make sure that no one has access to his college records also!"---


I don't "know" this. I have never seen any proof to back up this claim. Got any?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ....lets just say...Everybody but you knows then,,get a life would ya?..besides..Knowbody cares what you think,, it isn't the issue..so run along ..and continue to be a good little commy..ha ha ha
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: You miss the point. You have no proof of what you claim "Everybody" knows. All I know is that you are a kook.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: yea right...only a real kook,,or some wimp of an american like you that wouldn't want to know for sure if Obama was born in Kenya,,..he (Obama) would of coughed up the docs by now if was a ntural born citizen and you know it..,,so what are you so afraid of a "constitutional crisis" ?...woop -de -do..we appoint a new president and move on..its not the end of the world now is it?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: Johnny, I understand that you do not like Obama. I did not like Bush, but guess what, he was the president and I had to deal with it...just like the millions of other people that couldn't stand Bush. Barack Obama is president, and will be president for the next 4 years at least...deal with it
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ..theres where you and I differ..this issue got settled with McCain in the primaries when it came up he was born in panama., by MCain showing his vault copy more than willingly..
I like Obama,,and actually think he's come along at the right time also,,the problem if I like Obama or not or anything,,its that I know the story of when the DNC tried to pressure Obama about this,,his people told the DNC.. "tough cookies"...its a "non issue"...and then all the sudden this COLB copy surfaced,, then after a few months when Obama was nominated in Nov. ..somebody noticed some discrepencies, and his sister stated he was born in a different hospital in hawaii than the one on his certificate.
My point is Obama is a lawayer himself..he knows the laws when it comes to privacy issues..odds are he will never willing show his orig COLB/vault copy ..what the deal is that if the military decides not to follow orders thats really going to be bad,,,already another soldier and a retired colonel have filed lawsuits, claiming it will be treason to fllow orders from Obama unless he proves he's qualified..this isn't going away..Obama needs to show this info or it could really get ugly..thats what I don't want.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: Would you mind linking the article or court documents about the soldier and retired colonel filing lawsuits claiming that following orders from Obama would be treason
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Like I've been saying,,you can believe me now or believe me later,,,its just a matter of time till the right people take the right angle at this,,
I actually like this guys angle,,he's going right past asking for "proof"..he's going right for throat and has filed a camplaint that flat-out just directly accuses Obama of being foreign born ,,so much so that the secret service showed up just to make sure he wasn't a physical threat to Obama,,,ha ha ha
,,,your gonna love this one too,,I'm tellin ya,,its gonna get answered,,,one way or another,,so again lets face it,,,he would of shown it by now if he were natural born,,,,you know you would show it..I know I would show it,,Duh???

johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ,,,heres the link:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92835
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...targeted at Obama,,"I identify you as a foreign born domestic enemy," he wrote...oh my god ,,,you gotta love it! ...ha ha ha
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: This guy really defines what a true american is and what the constitution means to us..my hats off to the man.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: Do you suppose that this guy acted like a "True American that loves the constitution" when the Bush administration committed what this guy defines as "treason"? Barack Obama was born in the United States, and is the president...and any real true American would STFU already and respect the highest office of this country.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: Do you suppose that this guy acted like a "True American that loves the constitution" when the Bush administration committed what this guy defines as "treason"? Barack Obama was born in the United States, and is the president...and any real true American would STFU already and respect the highest office of this country.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
38 months ago: Don't bother, PH, Johnny's mind is closed to facts and realities.

Hey Johnny, Did you know that Obama's real BC was in a safe of the 54th floor of the World Trade Center? It's true, I read it on the internet.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...yeah? and what about watergate before it was exposed?..
...knowbody would of believed that either..

...did you know the internet is now where people get there info?..you could say its "the new" mainstrem media.,,you better wake up to that fact and reality,,,.duh?

...can you say..OBAMA-GATE?...I new you could,something tells me by your curiosity and questions you keep asking that you realize now you should of asked and had answers to these questions "before" Obama was elected..that even you,,in you own way are suspect of Obama on this,..just drop your ego for a second and just do your best for the answer! In a situation as serious as the president of your country,,you owe it too your fellow man to take a little more responsiblity don't you think?.
Igormarxo
Igormarxo
Roswell, GA
38 months ago: Difference between USSR Communist media and USA "mainstream media"

In Russia government make media say what they want - even if lie. In USA "Mainstream media" try make government what they want - even if lie.......eventually they become same thing?!

I Igor produce Obama birth certificat at www.igormarxo.org
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Ha ha ha ,,I like it..thats a good one Igor...well welcome to america,,,it apears you can think for yourself and can see the bull after only being in this country for a year..I congratulate you

and how about that Biden nut?...knowbody cares where that guys from but its probably Mars!...ha ha ha


What an insult and a disgrace to freedom these other forum members can be ?...ha ha ha
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Johnny: Please provide evidence link for, "MCain showing his vault copy more than willingly" because I did a search for it and couldn't find it.

Johnny: "We do know that Dr. Jerome Corsi traveled to Kenya to see if he could find a birth certificate for Mr. Obama, but was detained by Kenyan officials!" Kenya like any other country would not be allowed to give bcs to other than those to whom they belonged, so kind of a moot investigation isn't it, if it ever even happened which is highly doubtful.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Johnny: One of the biggest problems with your comments, with all due respect, is that you never provide links to your evidence and then when others do provide links to their evidence, you simply blast their links as in "oh your factcheck.org god". You are rude and dismissive. If you want people to listen and follow you argument, you must provide your sources and let people make up their own minds. That's where you're failing to persuade because, so far, you are the only source of your information.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Ok, Johnny, congrats, you finally published another link from World Net Daily. Unfortunately, when you visit that site, um, well, yikes. I don't even know what to say. You don't like factcheck.org, well, I don't like WND. It's the most right wing propaganda-ridden site I've ever seen. It makes FOXNews look like "The View". Wow.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Here's some things that WND won't answer...
(a) Why wouldn't the multi-millionaires Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly not spend every spare dime proving Obama was born outside the USA if they could?
(b) Why wouldn't the rich and powerful Clinton's provide proof of Obama's Kenyan birth if it were possible? Nobody stood to lose more than Hillary Clinton and you'd think nobody would have had more power to get the 'truth'?
(c) Why would a college student fly to Kenya in the 1960s to give birth to her son?
(d) Why wouldn't John McCain provide proof that Obama was not born in the USA if there were any?
(e) If WND is so great at investigating and finding the truth, why cannot they produce Obama's long form bc and show that he was not born in the USA? Why? Good journalists get the truth.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: well at least you know what its like then to have questions unaswnered,,its just your order of priority thats a little screwed up,,heres what I think..
...the "big dogs" like rush have too much flack to catch if Obama never shows proof...the irony is due to privacy issues and him being President and a lawyer,,theres some law on the books that says somethinhg like "you cannot sue the President of the united states" anyway,,Obama could use that defense if he had to that would tie it up in court forever??

...Even I'll admit we will will probably never know the truth for sure as long as americans like you keep being ****'s about this.
The best hope is like predicted that it will take someone from a military background to push it into a "miltary stand-off" with Obama
And Dennis Miller,,on his radio show is being the first just to be the first to predict there will be an "impeachment by summer"...we can only hope..ha ha ha
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: Obama was either born in the U.S. or he wasn't. However, where he was born and what we know about where he was born are two entirely separate issues.
For an example that even you might be able to understand, my car is of a certain color. If you look at it you can see what color it is, and you can assert that it's that color and not another. However, unless you see the car or have some other form of definitive proof, you don't know what color it is.
What color my car is and your knowledge of what color my car is are separate issues. Both of those are cut and dry: my car is a certain color or it isn't; you definitively know what color it is or you don't. And, in the current case we have no definitive proof of where Obama was actually born.

.....you got it?...duh?
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: OK..heres the latest court case in hawaii..this guy is really being creative to get Obamas certificate released for "scholarly" reasons claiming the original certificate should be released for historical reasons?..who knows..if it gets to the truth..who cares!

http://www.pr-inside.com/hawai-i-court-is-asked-to-expedite-r1148147.htm
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: The fact of the matter is that states can issue COLB to people not born in that state, HOWEVER THEY CANNOT CHANGE THE LOCATION OF BIRTH.

you and Johnny need to get used to the fact that Obama is president and will be for 4 years...vote against him in 2012 if that is what you see as the best decision.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Hey Xinunus, you gonna pay up the $2500 you owe me or not?

Conservative FrontPage magazine columnist Andrew Walden wrote, "Barack Obama was born in Hawai'i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu." So, there's the hospital you've been requesting.

Here's the link:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=68E5BBDC-1697-4DAC-88E6-3375428AD0D7

Everyone and his monkey has been telling you that your COLB argument doesn't hold water. Like PH wrote, "states can issue COLB to people not born in that state, HOWEVER THEY CANNOT CHANGE THE LOCATION OF BIRTH."

So, basically what you're suggesting is that either bribes were made to change Obama's location of birth from where ever you think he was born to Honolulu? Why would Obama run for President and take the oath of office he he knew he were ineligible? As a law student, you don't think he read and studied the Constitution? Or did he and suddenly realize his dream of becoming president would be dashed if he didn't suddenly fly to Hawai'i and bribe someone to change his place of birth to Honolulu on his bc.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Johnny, I cannot find your Dennis Miller reference. Please supply a link to where Dennis Miller predicts Obama impeachment by summer. I want to see that for myself.

Xinusus: Your answers to each of my scenarios about others having motivation but lack of information to stop Obama from Limbaugh to Clinton are hilarious, even more so than this entire thread. Yeah, I'm sure that Hillary Clinton was willing to just turn her cheek on Obama's Kenyan birth in exchange for being selected to be the Secretary of State. Does that make any sense to anyone? If she knew that Obama was ineligible for the presidency, she would have revealed it. She wouldn't have blackmailed a cabinet position out of him. After all, if he had been rendered ineligible by some real proof rather than your conspiracy hypotheses, she would have been gotten the Democratic nomination, and she'd be President. Meanwhile, your silly excuses for Limbaugh/O'Reilly and McCain clearly illustrate the pinnacle of irreverence. To your questions, I'd say, "Absolutely, they would have wanted to be the ones who brought Obama down. Do you know what that would have done for their credibility and their ratings?" You are silly to use the arguments you use because they defy common sense. But then so does this entire thread.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Finally, Xinusus wrote: "YOU WANT JOURNALISTS TO BREAK THE LAW AND STEAL DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN SEALED? THAT WILL PUT YOU IN PRISON SO FAST YOUR HEAD WOULD SPIN. THE FACTS ARE THAT OBAMA HAS SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN HIS OWN MONEY TO SEAL THIS INFORMATION. ITS A FACT. "

Yes, yes I do want journalists to break in and steal documents that have been sealed. That's exactly what GREAT journalists do. They find the truth and they reveal it. They do so at the risk of their own freedom. They see a bigger picture. Honestly, do you think that the journalists that proved Obama was born in Kenya would go to prison? I believe they'd be held up as heroes. Of course, the reason no one is willing to risk this is because they know what they'll find. They'll find, in the vault, a birth certificate proving Obama is a citizen which has already been proven? So, that's why they don't bother. It has nothing to do with a fear of going to jail.

Second, it is NOT A FACT that Obama has spent millions to seal his birth certificate. I don't know where you get your FACTS, but they don't even make sense. On the one hand you say that Obama has spent millions to seal his record and on the other you say he's a lawyer who knows that his records are private. Which is it? Did he spend millions or did he just rely on privacy laws? If you read your own stuff, it's just too hilarious to believe that people actually believe this stuff.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: You won't have to worry about voting for Obama in 2012,,because he'll be impeached by then,,besides,even he knows he doesn't technically qualify according to "our" constitution, he would of shown his credetials by now, so you can be sure he's not going too.
I think the guys(Obama)is doing a great job so far considering what he's up against, I'd even be for amending the constitution, but at this point I'd really just like to know the truth!
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: Johnny, I have said this to you before and I will say it again. You claim to love the constitution...but I do not see it in your writing. In the constitution you love a person is innocent until proven guilty of a crime, so either show the proof that he is guilty OR admit you really do not love the constitution as much as you say you, but rather only love it when its convenient for your argument.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: I think perfection is not attainable, So neither is our constitution or anything else perfect. I prefer to view it (a more perfect) constitution as just being enforced now for a direction in which to head towards is all.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
38 months ago: Well that is actually a very good point. However that does not change the fact that even if Obama did take the office of president without being natural born, he is still entitled to due process, which means that until you or some other person can actually PROVE that he was not born in the United States of America then it is assumed under the law that he was.
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
38 months ago: ...maybe this wil get the truth!,,finally

Washington, DC) The first National Conference on Barack Obama's missing birth certificate and collegWashington, DC) The first National Conference on Barack Obama's missing birth certificate and college records will be held in Washington, DC April 3rd and 4th. Conference Executive Director Andy Martin has reserved space at the Capital Hilton, 1001 16th Street NW, but final space arrangements will depend on attendance. The conference will be taped professionally for later posting on the Internet.

"The American people are entitled to a serious discussion on the total absence of Obama's fundamental historical records, and that's what we intend to deliver," says Martin. "Can anyone honestly say that the original typewritten birth certificate of a U. S. president should not be public? Likewise, his high school and college records? Missing? I don't believe these absences are defensible. Obama owes us full disclosure."e records will be held in Washington, DC April 3rd and 4th. Conference Executive Director Andy Martin has reserved space at the Capital Hilton, 1001 16th Street NW, but final space arrangements will depend on attendance. The conference will be taped professionally for later posting on the Internet.

"The American people are entitled to a serious discussion on the total absence of Obama's fundamental historical records, and that's what we intend to deliver," says Martin. "Can anyone honestly say that the original typewritten birth certificate of a U. S. president should not be public? Likewise, his high school and college records? Missing? I don't believe these absences are defensible. Obama owes us full disclosure."
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: Xinunus,
You say I'm "becoming a complete joke..". You, Sir, are causing me to question your ability to read. The link I provided was not to a liberal journalist, quite the opposite, a card-carrying, right-wing, conservative activist. If you actually visited the site and read his essay, you would see that his hypothesis is, in fact, one more intriguing than the idiocy of yours. He believes that the left knew the right would be distracted by this issue spending months and millions on it. Therefore, they did nothing to stop it; and, in so doing, they diverted energy that could have been used to more properly work toward getting McCain-Palin elected. This conservative writer asserts that Obama was born in the Kapiolani Medical Center, not I. I don't know in which hospital Obama was born. I just know it was in Honolulu, Hawai'i because that's what it says on his Hawai'ian birth certificate issued by the state of Hawai'i. To my knowledge, that's the only proof any of us has to our location of birth since there's yet been a baby born that was conscious of his or her location of birth. My mother told me I was born at a specific hospital in the city and county of Denver, Colorado. But, I had no such proof of this until I was required to submit a copy of my birth certificate to the State Department to acquire a passport for the first time. It was the first time I had proof of where I was born. The form did not supply the hospital, so I could have been born in a cab on the way to the hospital for all I know. But I do have proof, in my State of Colorado issued birth certificate. I cannot see what more proof there should or could need to be that I was born in Denver, Colorado. I do not know that the State has kept my "original". I do not know if I could get a copy of the vault copy that you and Johnny insist upon seeing. (continued)
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
38 months ago: However, it really doesn't make any sense because you are implying that somewhere the original exists and it will say he was not born in the USA. But, this is preposterous because if you had the power to get an altered birth certificate released by the state, you'd also have the power to have the original destroyed so there would never be any proof to the contrary, right? So if your hypothesis is correct, Johnny is right, we will never know because the original would have been destroyed. If the original hasn't been destroyed, then guess what?, it says he was born in Honolulu, Hawai'i. Your argument splits hairs and says that you won't believe it until you know the name of the hospital and the doctor who delivered him. If he provided you with this information, I have a feeling you'd then want to meet the doctor and see the hospital records. You would create and endless series of convoluted hurdles to jump before you will finally be convinced. Because, after all, again a person powerful enough to get his place of birth altered on his official birth records, would be powerful enough to ensure the hospital records if they even keep them this long disappeared along with any doctors or nurses who might know or not know. That's why your path of reasoning doesn't add up. If you are right, we will never know because the conspiracy is so vast and powerful to have wiped out any contrary information. On the other hand, it's far more plausible that baby Barack Obama was born in Honolulu. Isn't it?
Igormarxo
Igormarxo
Roswell, GA
38 months ago: Old Russian saying...You can tell same lie 1000 times but not change truth!

Difference between USSR Communist media and USA "mainstream media"

In Russia government make media say what they want - even if lie.
In USA "mainstream media" try make government what they want - even if lie..
.....eventually they become same thing?!

I Igor produce Obama Birth Certificate at www.igormarxo.org
johnny
johnny
Sacramento, CA
37 months ago: Its obvious by now..Obama was born in Kenya, and is technically still an Indonesian citizen where he went to elementary school in Indonesia because that country does not allow "dual citizenship" to attend school there,,his alias name in that country is "Barry Satoro"

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