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Let us reason together

Posted 17 months ago|45 comments|602 views
You will know the truth
VIDEOS
Written by
Edward Lee
Canada
The road of life, what is its purpose? Well, life is going from point A (Birth) to Z (Death), and there are many tribulations, you are like a breakable glass ball, traveling through a war for 80 or so years.

During the journey, you may perhaps be born into a good family who would love you, provide and train you to draw from the best of the opportunities, then will your parents remain together and love each other, or will one die or leave, so you would only have one to bring you up? Will you survive your teen years without an accident? Would you be one of the fortunate ones to avoid, Cancer, MS, Diabetics, an Auto crash, shot, knifed, a divorce, heart attack or a stroke or a depression, burnt in a fire, acid throw in your face........

80 years old 7.2% http://www.efmoody.com/estate/lifeexpect...

Then you have to die, now if at the end of life, there is a prize? Eternal Life.

My logic is, that I was always open to the fact God was a probability. When God revealed Himself to me, I knew that He existed, so I set out to know Him.

http://rantrave.com/Rave/I-was-a-SINNER-...

If I have been successful in business, not once but twice, don't you think I am aware that I would be liked more if I did not talk, preach or disclose that I am a Christian? On Rant Rave, and in socializing? Of course.

However, if I have discovered a truth, would I want to share it with you, or post something that would result in your liking me more? Should I be superficial, if you think it is foolishness to think that someone created the universe, and we just pop ed into the world and said here I am? Then you must be one intelligent dude,or something.

Must I be successful again at the end of the journey along, when I could take your hand and bring you into trouble free existence forever?

Some that took my hand:
http://rantrave.com/Rave/Saved-in-Las-Ve...
http://rantrave.com/Rave/SALVATION-IN-SI...
http://rantrave.com/Rave/SALVATION-IN-SI...
http://rantrave.com/Rave/karrezza-anothe...
http://rantrave.com/Rave/BORN-AGAIN-on-t...


www.refinedbyfire.ca
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COMMENTS
17 months ago: Your personal actions and attitudes should show others your true inner self. You should not need to mention your religious beliefs and as far as I'm concerned, it would not be in your best interest as I consider it a method to force your beliefs upon me. So yes, it has probably resulted in your being disliked by others you have met and spoken to about them.

If you could give me a trouble free existence, I'd let you hold my hand all day long. But we both know that what you offer has a lot more catches than just holding hands and I know that you don't have that power or knowledge on how to attain it, at least not in a way I would agree to because the first thing you'll want is for me to believe in your imaginary beings and that a book of stories was written by the top one (imaginary being that is).
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: But you have to admit that I don't only talk the talk, but also walk the walk.
Tell me what is the alternative?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...But you have to admit that I don't only talk the talk, but also walk the walk...

I don't consider pitching one's religion to be walking the talk - that's just talking or in this case, writing the talk.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Keep on, Edward.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: OOTB, would you being saying 'Keep on, Edward' if he was pitching a different religion besides your own? Let's say Edward was a devout member of the Chuch of Scientology and posted endless devotions to Dianetics and the bridge to freedom. Would you be saying, "Keep on, keep on?"

I kind of doubt it; I could imagine you saying something to bash the religion like calling Scientology the mafia of religions and that Scientologists exist to enrich their leaders. And you know what, I would be inclined to agree with that assessement even though it's "faith-bashing" to use your terminology.

Ohhhhh wait just a minute; I don't have to imagine you saying that. You did say the above about Scientology and you were arguing with proselyters for Scientology, like Jack Remington. See the following to jog your memory:

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Tom-Cruise-...

Of course you didn't tell Jack to "keep on, keep on" but when it comes your religoius sacred cow, it's "keep on keep on" and don't you dare bash my cow!

Does this picture remind you of anything?

http://tinyurl.com/27a53jx
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: I could wiggle around and say that I never disparaged their beliefs, rather only the methods of the CoS.

But I won't.

I don't recall ever having made fun of their beliefs in Xanthan Gum Arabica, or whatever it is they go on about. But poke around, I'm sure someone petty enough could find it if he put enough effort into.

As for Edward, I meant keep on doing what works for him, what makes him successful and happy, and continue to ignore the detractors.

Obviously what he is doing is working much better for him than whatever it is some of his detractors are doing, by their own testimony.

Sorry about the bullet paragraphs. Just wanted to make sure the scan button was off.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...I could wiggle around and say that I never disparaged their beliefs, rather only the methods of the CoS. But I won't...

That's followed up by wiggling:

...I don't recall ever having made fun of their beliefs in Xanthan Gum Arabica, or whatever it is they go on about. But poke around, I'm sure someone petty enough could find it if he put enough effort into...

So bashing doesn't mean bashing anymore - it means something else that you hope you didn't do and hopefully some "petty" person like yours truly won't poke around and make you eat your own words again. Well just call me petty and to quote you from http://tinyurl.com/37ybawe

"Jack is not a Scientologist, or at least he does not believe all the crazy stories propagated by the Church of Scientology."

You know OOTB, I have to agree with on that one - they are crazy stories but maybe we just don't get it and we don't got their faith. But and a big but, when they're selling their faith, I, like yourself will pull up the hood and kick the tires. They might not like it but that's my right and if they want to call it bashing, that's suggests to me that they have some defects to hide and/or don't want to talk about it. Also, frankly, I don't understand why a 'real' good product (especially a deity) needs a salesman in the first place and I've never got a rational answer on that one.

..As for Edward, I meant keep on doing what works for him, what makes him successful and happy, and continue to ignore the detractors...

I mostly agree - Ed isn't required to answers detractors but can choose to. He can take your direction to 'ignore the detractors' with a grain of salt.

...Sorry about the bullet paragraphs. Just wanted to make sure the scan button was off...

what scan are you talking about?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Spin it however you want, it's no skin off my nose. I'll let my record speak for itself in its entirety.

Scan button> long paragraphs with few breaks lead to skimming by bored readers.
17 months ago: More reading between the lines and forming false conclusions by our esteemed site sheriff (UH, Bounty Hunter). I don't think Box mentioned religion. He might mean keep on with your right to speak your mind. Then again. The Sheriff (UH, Bounty Hunter) knows best what we think and mean. He will gladly explain our concept to us.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: No Frank Dalton, I wasn't reading between the lines - I was quoting. And I was pointing out that one of your posse is doing the 'keep on keep on' when it comes to somebody pitching his sacred cow but when somebody else is pithing a diferent cow, it's time to pull out the six-iron and bash, bash, bash. To quote OOTB on the Hawking God topic, "Faith-bashing is just as despicable as gay-bashing, in my opinion." yet in the referenced Scientology post above, he was doing just that.

When you have a religion that requires you to proselytize and bash other religions as being false, mafia like, money-grubbing, etc., you can't very well start shedding crocodile tears about 'faith-bashing' when somebody turns around and bashes your religion. I'm sorry Frank, that pig won't fly and one's sared cow is somebody else's dinner.
17 months ago: My posse? You give me way too much credit. Although it might be fun to run the Sheriff out of town.

Great idea though.

Who is up to join the "RantRave Outlaw Posse Express"? Maybe I should post that as a rave? We can call it RR.O.P.E.!

We don't need a rrope. They give us plenty that we can use.
17 months ago: So your saying there were "crooked cops" way back then?

One son, Frank, was a Deputy US Marshal who was killed in the line of duty in 1887. Frank had been the most stable of the brothers, well grounded and mature, and by all accounts Frank kept his brothers in line. They respected him, and had at times ridden with him in posses.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: You and the posse are endlessly entertaining & engaging - If you want me to leave, just be boringly dull or to use RSG's terminology, be a squishy moderate.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: As are all you on the other side of the fence, whether just leaning on the fence or abjectly terrified of the fence, keeping as much distance between yourself and the fence as possible.
We have pretty evenly been chosen for sides, by you. How bout we all meet up for a game of flag football?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...As are all you on the other side of the fence, whether just leaning on the fence or abjectly terrified of the fence, keeping as much distance between yourself and the fence as possible...

That sounds like something a Scientologist or other proselytizing cultist would say to mind play a critic but terror has nothing to with it. That would be like saying I'm terrified of an Astrologist, Psychic, Ghost Hunter, or the Tooth Fairy; only a superstitious and irrational person would be terrified of supernatural powers that don't exist and religion is in the same class when they pretend they have supernatural powers and claim to know a deity.

...How bout we all meet up for a game of flag football?...

Why not, we've been playing chess for the past year.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: There you go with your one-track mind again. Once again, I never mentioned religion, but your mind immediately jumped there.

What I was referring to was you and the crew, on your side of the Liberal-Conservative boundary that you seem to have constructed with your comments about posses, whether fence leaners or far left (far out, man. this tree is talking to me) , bristling over anything that challenges your way of life or lifestyle.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: There you go again playing a feint. The topic is purely religious and I replied to the subject, you counter-replied, and we had a discussion about religous double standards, TCG weighed in and my reply included your statement on 'faith-bashing' and suddenly you meant it's just about our division on non-religious political issues and I'm suppose to read your mind on the change? There was no mention of Dems, GOP, Obama, and Bush here.

If Siempere Sole was still around, he'd be on the pro-religious 'posse' side even though he's not a political conservative. Superstition isn't reserved to the political right.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Oh, sorry, I misunderstood . Nevermind.
17 months ago: Frank Dalton. That is funny. Since you as Sheriff would be out of work without the Frank Dalton's. Now back to point.

OOTB said " Keep on, Edward. "

You read religion into that if you must since you have only a one track mind. Don't play that he said in another thread game. You said what in other threads?

Somehow you have reached the point where you think someone is addressing your comments when in fact they are not even related.

Please explain how OOTB telling Edward to keep on was an answer to your comment. You think OOTB is not smart enough to hit the reply link on your comment?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: You don't know history - Frank Dalton was a deputy US Marshall and honest lawman with an outlaw family called the Dalton Gang. So I'm the Sheriff and you're the deputy with a posse. You keep one stern eye on the Sheriff and one blind eye on the posse that runs wild. So maybe not quite as honest as Frank Dalton but close enough for analogies.

'Now back to the point' after you carted out the sheriff bounty hunter smack, I'm just trying to understand how somebody can bash one religion, and than later claim that the bashing of their religion is despicable and the same as gay bashing. And why does this religious post get a "keep on keep on" and a religious post about a different religion get a mafia money-grubbing hammer stamp.

..You think OOTB is not smart enough to hit the reply link on your comment?...

Of course not Deputy - even though you're trying, I don't expect you to answer a question that was given to OOTB. Deflect all all you like.
17 months ago: Mark, I don't need to deflect. Now your Sheriff, Professor, Philosopher, Scientist and a Monk? Dang. Must be nice to have all of those shingles. I stand corrected by the imperial SherProfPhilSciMonk. Do I need to throw a gold piece your way? Wait. I'll throw a ceramic jug that you can turn into gold. Not being beholding tho any Almighty and all it should not be a hard task for you.

..You think OOTB is not smart enough to hit the reply link on your comment?...

Of course not Deputy - even though you're trying, I don't expect you to answer a question that was given to OOTB. Deflect all all you like.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Man, (Thawok on the forehead)!!!!

Thanks for setting that straight Cypress. All this time I thought the esteemed Mr. Byrn had a problem with me telling a fellow human being to keep on doing what makes him happy. Especially since what Edward is doing harms no one at all.

But now I read in the chronological order of posts that Mr. Byrn was merely pitching a hissy fit because he thought I was reacting to his snide Moderator-like comment to Edward. If I were referring to MB's comment, I would have referenced it. Like you said, this ain't my first hog-calling.

I was lost as a goose there, because I actually do have a life, too.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Now here's where Markbyrn steps in and tells us what I really mean. After all, isn't that a moderators job, reinterpreting everyone's comments to fit his views?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: You know on further consideration, I think it more closely resembles the job description of hatchet-man. What do you think, Cypress? Think the management has plans to trim down the contributors list? Maybe make it a bit more main-stream?

Nah, that's just delusional.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Instead of deflecting it with a conspiracy tale how about just admitting you got a double standard when it comes to your religion, and demanding that it be treated as a sacred cow as opposed to other religions. That was my point to you and I believe I offered evidence from your own words.
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: No conspiracy and as far as sacred cows, I eat them. I have written so much in truth. I think that you should relax at look at my recent post and video (Rio).
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Ed, you eat sacred cows? I thought you were a vegetarian? :)

And I did see your post and video about Brazil; that's definitely on my list of countries to visit someday.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: "... how about just admitting you got a double standard when it comes to your religion..."

Got no double standard. I believe everyone has a right to their own beliefs, and I don't try to un-convince anyone of their religious beliefs. The quote you gave about the church of scientology was about the methods of a "church". It had nothing to do with their beliefs.

I was not, as you constantly do, trying to destroy the members' faith. I have the same problem with a certain baptist church that wanted me to sign a legally binding tithing contract. If you read my profile, you will see "i don't espouse organized religion."

"...and demanding that it be treated as a sacred cow as opposed to other religions."

You offered no proof that I ever made any remark to this regard. Looks like you've got a busy day in front of you. Which religion am I again?

markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...Which religion am I again?...

A Baptist who doesn't goto Church or in the parlance of Christian fundamentalists, a backslider? Actually I do know the answer because you confirmed it to me in another post:

http://tinyurl.com/2vmn3dg

I said you spoke like a like a true Christian supremacist and you replied, "Thank you. I'm not conceited, just convinced."

So the answer is you're a Christian supremacist that doesn't attend an assembly over a minor theological nitpick. That's not to say that money is a minor issue in religion - quite the contrary.

...i don't espouse organized religion...

Ditto but I do know that many proselytizing religionists artfully say they're not a member of an organized religion or they're not religious because in their terms, "they have a personal relationship with God." They're simply employing a euphemism to differentiate themselves as somehow having the ultimate truth as opposed to mere religions of which there are countless numbers. But of course it's still religion and no different than the countless other religions that claim ultimate truth.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: I've been to many, many churches, and yes, a Baptist church was one of them. I've also been to a Lady Homemakers Meeting, a black family reunion, and a rodeo.

I still am what I am. I am a Christian, and I let God speak directly to me, and don't feel the need to let a church interpret what they think God is saying to me. Do I believe my choice in JHVH to be the only true God? Well, of course. That should go without saying, given the nature of the matter.

Money isn't the main reason I haven't chosen a permanent church home. I mainly don't want my children exposed to incorrect theological interpretation by persons of good intent but bad knowledge.

And unlike you, I don't set out to destroy, especially when it comes to something as delicate as faith. I state my case, and everyone is welcome to take it or leave it. I don't consider them inferior just because they don't believe as I do. You are welcome to your own beliefs and I hope your belief system makes you happy. Just quit with the trying to tear others' down all the time. It makes you seem like an angry, bitter person.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...And unlike you, I don't set out to destroy, especially when it comes to something as delicate as faith...

Hello pot, this is the kettle and that's what religious zealots do (inc. yourself as noted above) and I'm merely rattling their cage when I observe it. It's the religious zealots who go out of their way to condemn and belittle other religions as false while promoting their own religion as the one and only way to truth and heaven. For example, Ed wrote a topic about how the Jews were condemned because they don't buy his particular brand of Christian theology.

So if people have a religion that requires them to condemn other religions or non-religions as false and/or Satanic, it's comically absurd if those same 'delicate' zealots turns around and point fingers at people who are doing the same thing to their religion or calling them on the carpet about it.

As I've said before, when somebody posts about the supremacy of their religion, calling out other religions as cults (e.g. the pot calling the kettle black), or selling their religion, I'm of the mind to rattle their cage until they prove it or fall off their sanctimonious perch.

And if one's faith is 'delicate' even as they vociferously call out other religions as false, maybe their faith is pure vapor.
17 months ago: I hope this shows up where intended Mr. Kettle Sheriff.

...religious zealots...?

Don't you mean religious bigots?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Thanks for the correction Deputy - I know you got my back.
17 months ago: Thanks for confirming your a bigot.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: You're welcome Deputy Bigot
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Markbyrn, We weren't discussing Ed, we were discussing you and I. Talk about deflecting by diverting attention! What you have done is stereotyped every person of faith into the same mold of your own perception. Nothing more, nothing less. You are closed minded, and there's really no point in discussing it with you any further.
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: Going to church does not make you a Born Again Christian, anymore does going to MC Donald makes you a hamburger, the reason someone goes to church is to hear the Word explained, and to fellowship with others believers.

If the Church someone goes to preaches incorrectly, then it would be better that you read and research the Bible yourself, but God looks at your Heart, if you talk to Him and ask Him for guidance He will do it. Read the books of a creditably Christian, (Billy Graham)
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Okay Ed, here's a video that features an interview between Robert Schuller and Billy Graham. If you want to get right to the interview itself, it's at 1 minute 20 seconds into it.

So if Graham is credible is in your eyes and he says that non-believers are saved, than maybe you should check what you've posted in the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bL...
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: My friend, if I can call you that? It is not my way, there is only one way. some 70 or at least 60% believe that what the Bible says in the truth. "I am the way the truth and the life"

If I ask you the way to New York, and the directions you give me take me to Boston. well that would be incorrect.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...My friend, if I can call you that?...

Ed, call me Mark - no need for formalities.

...some 70 or at least 60% believe that what the Bible says in the truth...

I don't see truth as a measure of popularity. If you asked people a hundred years about our prospects for going to the Moon, I imagine the majority would have laughed it off as fantasy. Conversely, a minority of people might still believe that the Earth is flat. How many people believe something doesn't make it so.

...If I ask you the way to New York, and the directions you give me take me to Boston. well that would be incorrect...

Yes but I could give you several different routes to New York from Boston. If you replied that there can only be one route, I'd have to say you're incorrect.
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: I looked at the video, what Billy is saying is that God looks on the heart, if you really seek God, and everything that is good then the grace of God will abound, some people that may of different religions, did not choice them, but at the time they really had a heart for the true God, if God looks at their hearts then they may make it to Heaven. Meaning that they did not make a choice to say yes to Buddha, and no to Jesus, the choice never came up, they thought that Buddha was the true God. they just wanted the true God.

But that is speculation, I would prefer to make sure by going by the instruction manual.

Grace means unmerited favor, something that was given freely, not earned.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: So you agree with Graham's statement, "And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: I am afraid that Bill's statement may result in many becoming complacent, we have to keep this in mind "The road to Heaven is narrow and few shall find it"
17 months ago: Here on Earth our main concern of course, has to do with Human Life. However, Life existed long before Humans. Early Earth didn't have a nice, breathable atmosphere and it took a whole lot of micro-organisms a whole lot of time to create enough carbon dioxide that plants (also living things, right) could live. Then, after a long while those living plants created enough oxygen so animals could live. Then after a long while, we finally have Human Life.

Worth noticing is this little fact so easily ignored. When there were no people on Earth, what was Life doing? Well, Life was surviving, Life was creating a situation where more complex Life could survive.

Then, finally, along comes man. Life has not only survived so that man could live, but Life has conquered the bare rock of Earth, turning it into a garden he can live within.

So isn't the question really; "How can we continue this established path?" How can we apply intelligence and make Life survive better, here on Earth?
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
15 months ago: Make Jesus your Lord and Savior.

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