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Judge Throws Out Obama Citizenship Suit

Posted 18 months ago|94 comments|1,259 views
Written by
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
Bravo to U.S. District Judge James Robertson who through out a Colorado Springs man's lawsuit proclaiming that Barack Obama cannot serve as president because he is not a natural born citizen of the United States. The judge said the lawsuit is frivolous, and unless he can prove otherwise he will be liable for court costs and legal fees to President Obama's lawyer in the case.

Again, bravo. Still, it's very disconcerting that there are nut jobs out there with enough spare money to bring such obviously insane court cases to trial and lawyer that are willing to take on such cases. It's also odd to think there are people who still adamantly believe that Barack Obama was not born in the USA. They believe that a woman from Kansas going to college in Hawai'i in the 1960s who married an student from Kenya, somehow flew back to Kenya to give birth so her child would not only not be a US citizen, he'd be a citizen of Kenya. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of women from Kansas to me. It's so illogical and preposterous as to defy basic common sense.
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GregoryB
GregoryB
Golden, CO
18 months ago: Your are a fool, who is obviously incapable of component reporting.

The conjecture that Obama is Kenyan, is NOT due to his birth place, but rather the fact that Obama was born as a Son to a Kenyan/UK Citizen at a time when his Mother was too young to confer her US citizenship upon him, according to law AT THAT TIME !!

The conjuncture that Obama is Indonesian is due to the fact at 5 years old he was adopted by his Step-Father, an Indonesian. Obama lived in Indonesia, attending school at a time when the Indonesian government would only allow Indonesian Citizens to attend grade school. When Obama returned to the US , before he turned 21, Obama could have retained his US Citizenship by taking an oath, but would be a Naturalized Citizen NOT Natural born !!

I'm curious how Obama said in his book that he found his birth certificate amongst his Fathers belongings, but does not seem to know where it is now.. The Certificate of Live Birth first posted on Snopes.com and adopted by Obama as 'real', is NOT even acceptable to the State of Hawaii as proof of Hawaiian birth, nor valid for a US Passport !!

I'm curious how Obama reported to have traveled to Pakistan in 1981, at a time that Pakistan would NOT allow entry to ANYONE with a US Passport, and to do so was considered an overt act against the US according to the US State Department.

Coloranter Raver, you give a bad name to Net Blogging, due to your inaccurate and inept reporting. You should be ashamed for putting such fictional dribble out here for others to read.

www.ObamaKenyanOrIndonesian.com
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
18 months ago: Hi Greg: You're kind of new to R-R aren't you? You probably don't know that our community of divergent minds is not too fond of people who open up with name calling and accusations of fraudulent fact-checking etc. If you'd like to come back with something polite and well-researched, you'll find you're in better company.

In the meantime, as you craft your response...

For anything related to doubts about Obama's birth certificate: read this...http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Second, the points you 'bring up' about conferring citizenship, etc. are complete nonsense written a person who cannot intelligently pick up a law book and read a few pages. A person is a citizen of the USA if he or she is born in the USA period. The points you raise only have to do with people who were born outside the USA to one or more citizens of the USA.

read this: "A BRIEF HISTORY OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP LAW AND AMERICANS OVERSEAS"
http://www.aca.ch/hisuscit.htm

Of course, the irony of all of this is that our first seven presidents were British subjects by birth having been born before there was a USA. But, that's just a little trivia for you that you obviously already knew.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
18 months ago: Also read this very careful analysis which refutes the rest of your many erroneous and factually incorrect points...

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2009/01/time_to_accept_obama_and_get_on_with_it.html

Finally, I did a comprehensive search and can find no evidence anywhere that there has ever been a time when US citizens were barred by the State Department from travel to Pakistan. I'm happy to look at your evidence. That, uh, site you provided as your source, well, I could have made that in under three minutes with one hand tied behind my back. It has no sources and is factually in error. Most Americans, for example, do not doubt Obama's citizenship. If they did, he probably wouldn't have won the election.

You know, I got to hand to a guy who could pull of this kind of fraud including getting people to put his birth announcement back in the newspaper in Hawai'i just after he was born just in case he ever ran for the presidency. Pretty slick stuff there!
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: A copy of the travel requirements to Pakistan in 1981

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/travel/cis/southasia/TA_Pakistan1981.pdf

Also, The U.S. and Pakistan were very close allies in 1981. Due in large part to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

The U.S. sent tons of money and military aid to Pakistan at that time as well.

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)

The following shows that acquiring dual citizenship does not abrogate the natural born status of a US Citizen.

--- And the mere fact that the plaintiff [Elg] may have acquired Swedish citizenship by virtue of the operation of Swedish law on the resumption of that citizenship by her parents does not compel the conclusion that she has lost her own citizenship acquired under our law….

The court below, properly recognizing the existence of an actual controversy with the defendants [page 350] ….. declared Miss Elg “to be a natural born citizen of the United States,”---

Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
18 months ago: Thank you Alferd P. I tried to find proof that travel to Pakistan wasn't banned in 1981, and I didn't think of checking the UIC Library which tends to have copies of every legal document in the world! Good call.

I continue to be amazed by this entire controversy. It's outlandish.
18 months ago: Someone answer this.Why doesnt Hussein just end this by simply allowing all documents to be released?Instead of spending hundreds of thousands to keep it all sealed.Somethings amiss,only the foolish cant see this.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: ---"First of all, the document shown is not a birth certificate. It is a COLB (Certificate of Live Birth) which may be issued willy-nilly to anyone no matter what their real birthplace, by the absurd government of that (ahem) state."---

Stupid nonsense. Do you really think that the State of Hawaii hands out U.S. citizenship to anyone who comes in and asks?

Smarter, you definitely aint.

18 months ago: It is amazing to me that people will readily accept conspiracy theories about Bush,but will not hear of such about Hussein.Id like to know how this man went from a self admitted drug user to a ivey league student.Where did this money come from?Can you get a scholarship for smoking pot?And I see no one can answer my previous question.Come on people,you dont have to take the red pill,but at least hold it in your hand and look at it.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: ----"yeah, Hawaii does, indeed, confer COLBs on anydamnbody)"----

Please that is just stupid, beyond belief.

18 months ago: Well having lived in Indonesia I believe I can strike the Indonesian citizenship to go to school suspicion from GregoryB's case. There are very few government regulations in Indonesia that cannot be circumvented with a monetary payment to the right government official. I was once held on the false charge of working in Indonesia without the proper paperwork and then offered to pay a bribe for the accusation to be dropped. Things are slowly getting better there but I am sure at the time Obama was there getting into a public school would only require a small bribe somewhere.
18 months ago: If Obama needed a reason not to procure and display his original birth certificate for all to see, it's here in this thread: those who demand that he do so and attempt to shift the onus onto the President look like completely insane conspiracy nuts. That the #tcot posts on Twitter are still infested with this nonsense in early March, 2009, is a further sign of the decline of the grassroots American conservative movement.
18 months ago: If there were people going around saying that Bush was somehow debarred from the Presidency because of his time in the Texas Air National Guard, those people were also acting in a ridiculous manner. If Obama were Republican, it would not bring his birth into question--the very notion is preposterous.

I'm astounded by the lack of self-awareness displayed here. There is no evidence to support allegations that Obama is not an American born in America.
Sally Hill
Sally Hill
Lubbock, TX
18 months ago: Might want to re-read the Elg finding. The judge rightfully found that Elg was a Natural Born Citizen, as she was born to 2(count them - two) US Citizen parents. Both parents had naturalized PRIOR to her birth. Her mother naturalized through her father's naturalization which was historically the way it occurred in that time period.

A quick read of the case could give someone the sense that the case helps Obama, but a thorough and in-depth read, understanding historical citations, reveals that it hurts Obama's case to the core.

US Citizen is not the same as Natual Born Citizen.

And by some historical text, (which were used by the Framers as reference in writing the Constitution) Obama would have NOT even been considered a US Citizen.

Overall - ACTIONS speak much louder than words. You could dismiss the fact that he was born with dual-allegiences/ dual-loyalites, and he lost them when he turned 21 (although the Constitution is more interested with his status BY BIRTH, than at his 21st birthday). However, well AFTER his 21st birthday he travelled to Kenya (on the taxpayers dime) to campaign for a paternal relative who believes in Sharia Law. The question then is this: Did Obama campaign for Odinga out of paternal LOYALITY and/or because he too believes in Sharia Law? Either answer is devistating. Either answer is EVIDENCE as to why the framers did NOT want dual-allegiences for POTUS.

He MIGHT have been able to say he no longer had dual-loyalities; however, his actions say something vastly different. For me - that's all the proof I need.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
18 months ago: The nutcases are still around. Obama's mama was NEVER in Kenya. There is not one shred of evidence that she was there. The Kenyan government could not find a record of it.

He was NOT adopted by his stepfather. No proof has ever surfaced.

Americans were not banned from traveling to Pakistan. The U.S. State Department Travel Advisory to Pakistan in 1981 confirms the newspaper account:

"NO. 81-33A
Travel Advisory
Passport Services/Bureau of Consular Affa[irs]
Department of State/Wahington. D.C. 205__
AUGUST 17, 1981

TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN

BEFORE TRAVELING TO PAKISTAN, AMERICAN CITIZENS SHOULD BE AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING UPDATED VISA REQUIREMENTS:

30 DAY VISAS ARE AVAILABLE AT PAKISTANI AIRPORTS [FOR] TOURISTS ONLY. AS THESE VISAS ARE RARELY EXTENDED BEYOND THE 30 DAY TIME PER[IOD,] TOURISTS PLANNING TO STAY LONGER SHOULD SECURE VISAS BEFORE COMING TO PAKISTAN.

These are just some of the braindead claims by the Obama haters who swear they love the Constitution and that we must stick to every word. If we did that, blacks would still be 3/5 of a person. These so-called lawyers should be sanctioned at the very least.
18 months ago: Ah, so now, all else having failed, we have the novel contention that in order to be a natural-born American citizen a person born in the USA must have two American citizens as parents.

Granted that the meaning of "natural born citizen" has always been rather vague, this last desperate sally is unlikely to find any takers in the District or Appeal Circuit courts, much less in the US Supreme Court. Tin foil hats again, I'm afraid.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
18 months ago: President Obama requested his birth certificate from the State of Hawaii and was furnished a short-form laser copy. He submitted it and its authenticity has been verified by the State. In Hawaii, they have not distributed long-form or vault certificates in roughly 30 years as state policy, and the short form is sufficient to get a drivers license, run for office, etc. We verified this policy with the Recorders office. Obama followed the proper protocol.

This is what the State Department asks for for proof of citizenship:

1. PROOF OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP

a. APPLICANTS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES: Submit a previous U.S. passport or certified birth certificate. A birth certificate must include your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.

Obama's certificate includes all of this. It also includes "the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records". This idea that Obama couldn't use this certificate for any legal proof of citizenship is unfounded, just like all of the other claims.

The COLB does, in fact, state a 'Place of Birth' -- Honolulu, HI. For a time, you could get a Hawaiian BC if you were born somewhere else, but it would be a COLB *issued* by the State of Hawaii and the 'Place of Birth' would read 'Paris, France' or 'Ontario, Canada' -- it certainly wouldn't list Hawaii as the 'Place of Birth.'
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
18 months ago: Finally, On November 3, the Chicago Tribune's Swamp reported that Ms. Okubo (Health Department Spokeswoman, per the Press Release) confirmed in both e-mail and telephone interviews that Obama was BORN IN HAWAII:

"Seeking to squelch persistent rumors that Sen. Barack Obama isn't eligible to become president because he allegedly was born outside the United States, a Hawaiian official has confirmed she has "personally seen and verified" that the state "has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate" - meaning Obama was born in the Aloha state, and is therefore an American citizen.

Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

"YES," said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. "That's what Dr. Fukino is saying."

CASE CLOSED.

TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Moderator
 Havertown, PA
18 months ago: Oh boy Greg (and a few more of you Coloranter did not call out) Welcome to rantrave, and play nice, or mommywing may yell at you.
Sally Hill
Sally Hill
Lubbock, TX
18 months ago: First of all, I have no problem believing Obama was born in Hawaii. I believe the COLB is accurate and true (not a forgery). But that doesn't negate the issue that Obama himself proclaims to be true - he was born with dual-citizenship / dual-loyalty. If you dispute this FACT, then you would have to call Obama a liar.

However, on the issue of Kenya and Indonesia. I don't believe you can unequivicably say OB's mom was NEVER in Kenya or that he was NOT adopted by Lolo. The FACT is that we don't know for sure either way. To state definitively one way or the other doesn't make it true.

Secondly, I don't own a tin-foil hat, I do have a pink fuzzy one, but I'm pretty sure that is not a qualifier for being a tin-foil hat groupie. :)

I agree - he was born in Hawaii - CASE CLOSED. That is basically a no brainer, BUT changes nothing with regards to his eligibility issues.
Sally Hill
Sally Hill
Lubbock, TX
18 months ago: Is he a Natural Born Citizen? - CASE STILL OPEN
The problem with wanting to dismiss this issue is the fact that it is NOT going away. The sheer fact that it is being discussed on this blog gives it credence and gives rise to the possibility that Obama is not a NBC and therefore not eligible to POTUS. Of course, I still want to acknowledge that perhaps he IS a NBC and is eligible as well. I believe we MUST look at and evaluate this situation with an open mind.

If you want to poo-poo NBC status, then do you even consider Anchor babies as being eligible to be POTUS? If not, where do you draw the line as to who is eligible and who is not? Personally (again, this is MY opinion - last I knew I was entitled to have one - at least for now) I believe the framers wanted to guard against a POTUS who has dual-loyalities.

It would appear that no one else here has a problem that Obama CONTINUES to have loyalities to Kenya and/or believes in Sharia Law (as evidenced by his own actions). I have a MAJOR problem with both of these issues! Perhaps if he would open his records and documents, there might be perfectly legitimate answers to his actions, which I could then understand and alleviate my misgivings about him. Of couse, that still wouldn't solve the issue of whether he is NBC or not. :)
Sally Hill
Sally Hill
Lubbock, TX
18 months ago: You can dismiss my thoughts on NBC as desperate, but I get my information from A Law of Nations by Vattel. It was read by many of the Founders of the United States of America, and informed their understanding of the principles of law which became established in the Constitution of 1787.
"§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country."

Vattel only acknowledges two kinds of citizens - Naturalized and Natural Born; therefore according to Vattel BO wouldn't even be considered a US Citizen, let alone a NBC.
yerbrojoe
yerbrojoe
Philadelphia, PA
18 months ago: Hawaii said they have seen his certificate, not that it's American. They refuse to elaborate. Sun Yat Sen had a Hawaiian COLB and WAS born in China. He didn't come to the US until he was 14. Factcheck has not said he is natural born. The font used in his COLB was 'invented" 1 year after the date of issue of his COLB. The border and seal on Hawaiian COLBs change every year. Obama's are from 2 different years.
yerbrojoe
yerbrojoe
Philadelphia, PA
18 months ago: Hawaii said they have seen his certificate, not that it's American. They refuse to elaborate. Sun Yat Sen had a Hawaiian COLB and WAS born in China. He didn't come to the US until he was 14. Factcheck has not said he is natural born. The font used in his COLB was 'invented" 1 year after the date of issue of his COLB. The border and seal on Hawaiian COLBs change every year. Obama's are from 2 different years.
18 months ago: Pam Hill: Vattel? Good grief. Next you'll be citing the minority opinion in United States v. Wong Kim Ark!

yerbrojoe: the director of the State Department of Health confirmed nearly five months ago that Obama was born in Honolulu, but then again that doesn't fit the conspiracy theory so you must ignore it.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: yerbrojoe wrote: ---"The font used in his COLB was 'invented" 1 year after the date of issue of his COLB."--- Wow, The Stupid, It Burns!!!! You do realize, don't you that the State of Hawaii prints out ALL birth Certificate requests from a digital database. They no longer send out copies of the originals. The data has been entered into a computer database and the COLB is printed off of that. Obama's COLB was printed out in 1997.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: in 1862, The United States Attorney General, Edward Bates, offered his opinion on the citizenship issue. AG opinions are considered precedence and are relied on by courts, although they are not binding. ---"And our Constitution, in speaking of natural born citizens, uses no affirmative language to make them such, but only recognizes and reaffirms the universal principle, common to all nations, and as old as political society, that the people born in a country do constitute the nation, and, as individuals, are natural members of the body politic.

If this be a true principle, and I do not doubt it, it follows that every person born in the country is, at the moment of birth, prima facie a citizen; and he who would deny it must take upon himself the burden of proving some great disfranchisement strong enough to override the “natural born” right as recognized by the Constitution in terms the most simple and comprehensive …

And so strongly was Congress impressed with the great legal fact that the child takes its political status in the nation where it is born, that it was found necessary to pass a law to prevent the alienage of children of our known fellow-citizens who happen to be born in foreign countries. The act of February 10, 1855, 10 Statutes, 604, provides that “persons,” (not white persons,) ” persons heretofore born, or hereafter to be born, out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be deemed and considered and are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States: Provided, however, That the rights of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers never resided in the United States.”---

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: He also said:---"I am quite clear in the opinion that children born in the United States of alien parents, who have never been naturalized, are native-born citizens of the United States"---
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: In Perkins v. Elg, SCOTUS found: ---"And the mere fact that the plaintiff [Elg] may have acquired Swedish citizenship by virtue of the operation of Swedish law on the resumption of that citizenship by her parents does not compel the conclusion that she has lost her own citizenship acquired under our law….

The court below, properly recognizing the existence of an actual controversy with the defendants [page 350] ….. declared Miss Elg “to be a natural born citizen of the United States,”---
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Lynch v. Clark, 1844: - - - "By the common law, all persons born within the ligeance of the crown of England, were natural born subject, without reference to the status or condition of their parents…

The term citizen, was used in the constitution as a word, the meaning of which was already established and well understood. And the constitution itself contains a direct recognition of the subsisting common law principle, in the section which defines the qualification of the President. “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,” … The only standard which then existed, of a natural born citizen, was the rule of the common law, and no different standard has been adopted since. Suppose a person should be elected President who was native born, but of alien parents, could there be any reasonable doubt that he was eligible under the constitution? I think not."- - -
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
18 months ago: I would like to take a moment to address Sally. Sally, you are making some points that are inconsistent with both the Constitution of the United States and reality. I need more data to understand your contention.

The Constitution

Article II:
"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the Unite States."

There is no definition of "natural born citizen" in the Constitution, but Constitutional experts reasonably ascertain that the key term is that the citizenship be established at birth. The rest of the information on the topic leads any logical person to the conclusion that the point was to prevent people foreign-born people from becoming President of Vice-President. There were never any provisions made against any person being born in the USA to be excluded.
Sally Hill
Sally Hill
Lubbock, TX
18 months ago: Who is Pam? I'm going to assume you were directing that comment to me. Next, I would NOT point to the Ark decision as I feel it has the possibility of being tainted. The judge writing the seminal opinion in that case was appointed by the ONLY other POTUS usurper - Chester Arthur. So, no, I don't consider Ark as a viable source.

I don't doubt for one minute that Obama was born in Hawaii; although, not due to what a Hawaiian official DIDN'T say. You must read the words carefully - being sure not to 'read into' their words that which is not there. The words were chosen carefully so as not to confirm or deny. However, it stands to reason that he was born in Hawaii.

Additionally, the state may very well print out COLB in response to a request; however, they are fully capable of making a certified copy of the vault BC as such is needed and necessary to obtain a passport. And you know what? I'll betcha if the Ogreatone asked Ms. Okubo, pretty please with sugar on top could I have a certified copy of the vault BC - I'll just betcha that he could get it - don't you? However, it would do nothing to prove he is NBC.

I don't understand why people keep bringing up Elg. Elg's parents (plural) meaning both were naturalized PRIOR to her birth - therefore, what possible consideration does it have if you are arguing that Obama is NBC? It doesn't help him at all!

By Coloranter, I think you have it! That is exactly my point! There is NOT a clear distinction made as to what exactly constitutes a NBC. It needs to be clarified.

You see it as meaning foreign-born people, I see it as meaning foreign-loyalties.

His actions speak directly to his continued loyalties. Do you not have a problem that he campaigned for Odinga in Kenya and that apparently he belives in Sharia Law?
18 months ago: Sally, I apologise for misremembering your first name when drafting my last response.

Now you've just raised a ridiculously old "bogus President" theory, that of Chester A. Arthur. I only engage in these discussions to the extent that I want to make sure no person unaware of the situation might be misled, but at this point I think my involvement is superfluous. You can be left to get on with your self-discrediting conspiracy theories.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Sally Hill Wrote:

-----"Next, I would NOT point to the Ark decision as I feel it has the possibility of being tainted. The judge writing the seminal opinion in that case was appointed by the ONLY other POTUS usurper - Chester Arthur. So, no, I don't consider Ark as a viable source. "----

1) There are nine justices on the Supreme Court. (Although in the Ark case, only 8 justices participated in the decision.

2) It was a 6-2 decision. Even without Grey's vote it would have been decided in favor of Ark.

3) Grey was the ONLY Arthur appointee to the court at that time.

4) Chester Arthur had been DEAD for twelve years prior to the Ark case reaching SCOTUS.

Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Sally Hill wrote: ---"
I don't understand why people keep bringing up Elg. Elg's parents (plural) meaning both were naturalized PRIOR to her birth - therefore, what possible consideration does it have if you are arguing that Obama is NBC? It doesn't help him at all!"----

OK, then how about the this one?

Musata v. U.S. Department of Justice United States Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit (1999)

"Petitioners Marian and Lenuta Mustata are citizens of Romania. At the time of their petition, they resided in Michigan with their two minor children, who are natural born citizens of the United States."
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Or, what about the SCOTUS case, Luria v. United States, 231 U.S. 9 (1913)


---"Under the Constitution of the United States, a naturalized citizen stands on an equal footing with the native citizen in all respects save that of eligibility to the Presidency."---

That is pretty straightforward, is it not?
Sally Hill
Sally Hill
Lubbock, TX
18 months ago: When Obama is found not to be a NBC and possibly not even a US Citizen, you be sure and start screaming Mustata vs. US while he is asking not to be deported. But just between you and I, I wouldn't use that case or Luria to try and help Obama out. The fuhrer might not take kindly to it. :)

Well - it would appear that I am asked to take leave and since no one is going to touch my question of Obama's continued loyalty to Kenya - I too am wasting my time.

I like a lively debate where name-calling can be checked at the door. It was a challenge while it lasted. Take care everyone and best wishes. :)
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Buh Bye.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
18 months ago: Jalbuena was a natural-born citizen of the United States who moved to the Philippines and, by operation of law, became a Philippine citizen. His action in applying for and receiving a Philippine passport after subscribing to an oath to support the Philippine Constitution, it was held, did not constitute renunciation of his American citizenship

http://altlaw.org/v1/cases/801489

read it and weep.

18 months ago: Well from the pretty much the outside looking in I have to say I thouroghly enjoyed this debate. I would have liked to jump in more but simply had very little ammo on this subject. Hope you guys and gals all bring your toys back to play again soon.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
18 months ago: So Sally, you actually believe that a pregnant 18-year-old white girl living comfortably with her parents in Hawaii, travelled to Kenya WITHOUT HER HUSBAND (he was in Kenya in 1960, but not again until 1965) during the late stages of the Mau Mau uprising just to give birth, then returned home alone? Come on, let's get a little reality into this. Even the Kenya govt. could find no record of her ever having been there.

Obama knows he was born in Hawaii and knows he is a natural born citizen as this term has evolved via Supreme Court decisions over the years. After all, he did teach Constitutional Law. Anyone born on US soil is now considered a natural born citizen. He knows that. There is no definition of natural born citizen in the Constitution that everyone seems to cling to so passionately. If we honor the Constitution word for word, blacks are 3/5 of a citizen.

I know it won't go away because there are many people desperate to discredit Obama, but I also know that it will go nowhere in the Courts. And what a crime that Obama continues to have loyalty to the country where his ancestors were born.
18 months ago: For anyone interested in the Natural Born Citizen question, I have accumulated what I call the Great Mother of all Natural Born Citizen Quotation pages at
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/the-great-mother-of-all-natural-born-citizen-quotation-pages/
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Moderator
 Havertown, PA
17 months ago: Figured i should put this on here too.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Read that, what on earth do you loonies want? he gave it up. Let it rest!
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Dude, Xinusus, you need to read through this entire thread! There is more proof that Obama was born in Hawai'i than that Jesus Christ lived. Come on! Get a clue.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Xinunus wrote "HAWAII in the 60's GAVE OUT LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATES TO BABIES BORN OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES."

Uh, sorry but that's not true. It's a myth being spread by people like you.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Moderator
 Havertown, PA
17 months ago: Xinunus, name calling is not welcome, and i won't have it. I have flagged your comment.

Coloranter is one of the most respected, intelligent, and compassionate writers we have in our little community and i won't have you walking all over him.

Go to hell (SORRY ALEX! you can remove mine too, but this person is driving me nuts)

Personal attacks are not welcome here.
Alex Layton
Alex Layton
 Administrator
 Seattle, WA
17 months ago: Xinunus, really, you should settle down. Your message seems to get overlooked when you call everyone "idiots" or "morons." You remind me of Dwight Schrute.

Tom, I'm willing to step in, when there's profanity involved, or if comments have absolutely nothing to do with the post and are just personal attacks. But, beyond that, I wouldn't want to interfere with someone's freedom of speech.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Xinunus, thank you for your apology.

I respect your right to your opinion.

Howeve,r I cannot and will not condone your name-calling nor your unsavory comments directed toward Tom Wing and Alex Layton. Your comments were crass and totally out of line. They too deserve a direct apology and you should ask to have your comment removed rather than having it be censored.

I have now read a few of the links to the laws of the state of Hawai'i to which you refer. Most of them, at least to me, don't apply.

[§338-17.8], for example, states that people who are born of Hawai'i residents that were living out of state at the time of a child's birth can receive a Hawai'i birth certificate.

But the birth certificates will not state that the person was born in Hawai'i. They will state that the person was born whereever he or she was born.

The implication you are making is that Hawai'i was taking on people from anywhere and giving them a birth certificate that said they were born in Hawai'i, and that's simply not true.

TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Moderator
 Havertown, PA
17 months ago: The part Coloranter forgot to mention is that he will accept cash, certified check, or pay pal for that 5 grand you now owe him ;0)

Cheers!
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Also wondering how Obama's parents knew to put in this birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

scroll down to see it

Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: So, if I got you the name of the doctor and the hospital, you'd give me $5K. I wonder if the President's people would give me that info just for that reason because who couldn't use $5K.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Unfortunately, I have a feeling if they did give it to me, and I told you, you would not only not give me the $5K, but you'd come up with some other conspiracy theory about how I was drugged by aliens and told these lies to keep the cover going.
Alferd P
Alferd P
Washington, DC
17 months ago: xinunus posted: -----------------

[§338-17.8] (snip)
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]


---------------------------------

xinunus, do you see that part at the very end of that statute?

The part that says: [L 1982, c 182, §1]

That is the legislative history of the statute.

It was passed into law in 1982 and has not been revised since. That statute did not exist in 1961 when Obama was born.

So please explain how this applies to Obama.

Thanks.


Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
17 months ago: Get over it folks. He was born in Hawaii which makes him a natural born American. The two parent baloney was only done at the start of the Union for obvious reasons -- everyone was from another country. Over the decades, the accepted definition simply means born in the USA. Hawaii is in the USA and his birth records say: HONOLULU, OAHU, HAWAII as the place of birth. PERIOD. Get over it.
17 months ago: "Also wondering how Obama's parents knew to put in this birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser "

Short answer is that they didn't. Birth notices came from a news service who got them from the Health Department. Obama's announcement appeared in both Honolulu newspapers (along with the same babies before and after).
17 months ago: Xinunus quotes HAWAII LAW 338-17.8, but fails to notice the "L 1982" down at the bottom, the year the law was passed. Given that Barack Obama's birth certificate shows he was registered August 8, 1961, that law was not operative for HIS registration.

But even if the law were operative, it wouldn't allow Hawaii to write "Location of birth: Honolulu" for someone who wasn't born in Hawaii. Do you realize how crazy it would be to do otherwise?
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Thanks, Doc Con. and Alferd P. You two are on your toes when getting to the root of the false conspiracy.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
17 months ago: xinunus,

All caps is yelling and you are the King of that. What you don't seem to realize is that Obama's submission of his laser copy short form is just like a bank book. It shows what is contained in your account. In this case, it simply shows what is on your original vault certificate -- you know, genius -- the one that states he was born in Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii.

It's true about the old law that said it was OK to register an out-of-state birth but they ALWAYS listed the correct locale of birth. If he had been born in Cairo, Egypt, it would state that, It does not. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference what hospital he was born in, he was born in Honolulu.

Since you seem to insist he was not born in Hawaii, the alternative is Kenya. Big problem for you, Little X, his mama was never in Kenya; his papa was not in Kenya in 1961, and you want us to believe that a pregnant 18 year old white girl from Kansas would leave the comfort of her parents' home in Hawaii to go to Kenya WITHOUT HER HUSBAND, in the late stages of the great Mau Mau uprising, just to have her baby in that country, then immediately flew back to Hawaii to register his birth in case he wanted to run for President in another 47 years.

Natural born has evolved to born in this country and I'll give you $5000 cash if you prove he was not. Innocent until proven guilty in this country, you know.

The only pathetic thing here is your cognitive rigidity in the face of overwhelming evidence. You are a raisin in a bowl of rice.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
17 months ago: One more little point for Mr. X. Obama's parents didn't place the birth announcement in the newspaper. Those announcements only came from information supplied on a regular basis by the Health Department in Hawaii. That's how it works. Nice try.
17 months ago: xinunus wrote:

"Nice try on the date but 1982 isnt [sic] when it was created it was when it was updated last. "

xinunus, why do you persist in making stuff up like this when it would be so easy for you to check things for yourself and perhaps maintain a little credibility in the discussion.

Hawaiian law citations on the current law web site include ALL the dates, including the original law, and the ALL the updates, not the last one only. You can readily verify this for yourself:

For example, visit this page on Certified Copies:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm

This is the footer:

[L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

See all the amendments?

One of the very first things I did when the "L 1982" footer was pointed out to me by a lawyer on another forum last summer was to check the context of other laws to see what it meant for sure.

This is the difference between an honest researcher and a hothead. Honest researchers check their facts.
17 months ago: Let me add that there hare half a dozen other dodges that the anti-Obama crowd use to try to discredit the birth certificate (all of them equally invalid). There are even some of these in the lawsuits, like the infamous block 7c in Keyes v Bowen. These dodges are covered in depth on my web site here:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/not_born_in_hawaii/
17 months ago: Mountain Jack said:

"These so-called lawyers should be sanctioned at the very least."

Mr. Hemenway in Hollister v. Obama was officially reprimanded and the judges order made it fairly clear that of Phil Berg had actually signed the complaint, he would have been sanctioned. In federal court, a lawyer cannot lie in a complaint they sign. There are many lies in the lawsuits.

Given the opportunity, I expect more sanctions from the courts, and in particular I would expect to see some in Keyes v. Obama.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
17 months ago: You are suffering from cognitive rigidity. NOBODY gets an original long form in Hawaii. Nobody has touched the actual birth certificate and nobody ever will. Hawaii does not release original vault certificates to ANYONE. They release a laser copy or short form. Even if Obama made the request it would be denied.

What you fail to realize is that the laser copy WHICH IS AN EXACT COPY of the original states that Obama was born in Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii. If he were born in Paris, France, it would say so.

It is a Certified Copy.

§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a CERTIFIED COPY of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the SAME AS THE ORIGINAL, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Hey Xinunus! Can I get $2500 from you...

Conservative FrontPage magazine columnist Andrew Walden wrote, "Barack Obama was born in Hawai'i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu."

I'm still working on getting you the name of the Doctor. But, there's the proof you requested about the hospital and from a Conservative source!

Here's the link:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=68E5BBDC-1697-4DAC-88E6-3375428AD0D7
17 months ago: Xinunus said:

"What is posted on Obama's 'Fight the Smears' website as well as the FactCheck.org website is the abbreviated short-form 'certification of live birth' that could have been issued for a child born overseas, and thus does not prove he was born in Hawaii. What is so difficult about this to understand?"

The difficult thing to understand is that if the document is for birth in a foreign country, then why does it say "Location of Birth: Honolulu" on it.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Xinunus wrote...

"I GUESS WE WILL NEVER KNOW WILL WE BECAUSE HE WONT RELEASE HIS LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE."

Like I wrote in the other thread, if Barack Obama is powerful enough to get an altered short form certificate of live birth as you call it, he's powerful enough to have had the original you seek destroyed.

"HE IS PLAYING EVERYONE FOR A FOOL AND KOOL-AID DRINKERS LIKE RAVER EAT IT UP. WHY? BECAUSE HE IS PROTECTING HIS SAVIOR."

I take offense to this on many levels. If we are drinking Kool-Aid®, you are drinking Kool-Aid® of a different flavor. Barack Obama is no my savior. He is the duly elected and sworn in president of our nation. Until someone proves otherwise, we have a presumption of innocence guarantee in our Constitution which you claim to hold so dear. You cannot pick and choose the parts to which you want to adhere on any given day. The burden, actually, in our legal system is upon you to prove that he wasn't born in the USA. With the vast resources of the right wing, Limbaugh has over $400 million himself, ought not they be able to hire a team of Private Investigators to find the proof? Imagine the 'heroic' status of a person who could find such proof and save the nation from the tyranny of foreign rule. This person would become more famous and beloved than George Washington himself. You think Rush Limbaugh doesn't have the 'cajones' to be that guy? You think Rush Limbaugh cares if he goes down in history as the person who lifted the veil off America's first bi-racial president as long as his loyal followers see Him as the savior?
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Xinunus wrote: "RAVER DOESNT CARE ABOUT FACTS. YOU CAN SLAP HIM IN THE FACE WITH FACTS AND HE WILL STILL FIND AN EXCUSE TO DISMISS IT."

You are the one that doesn't care about facts. Let's see:

Fact: Barack Obama's Certificate of Live Birth, a document verified and authenticated by officials of the state of Hawai'i, states that he ws born in Honolulu, Hawai'i.

Fact: To date, no one has been able to prove an alternate birth site.

You are the one shy of facts and a long list of garbage posted on smear sites like that he paid millions to seal his records. I can find that "fact" no where.

Xinunus wrote: "THIS IS THE WAY LIBERALS THINK WHEN THEY CANT DEBATE FACTS."
For the record, I'm an independent who voted twice for Reagan and twice for Clinton, but you can call me a liberal all you want. Calling me names or assigning me labels doesn't change the FACT that you are, again, the one shy of facts, and I'd assert now, shy of logic.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Xinunus: "HELL I CANT EVEN GO GET A HOME LOAN WITHOUT SHOWING MY LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE BUT IN THIS COUNTRY YOU CAN BECOME PRESIDENT WITHOUT IT."

I've applied for and received 2 home loans for the purchase of a condo in Chicago and a town home in Seattle. For neither did I ever have to provide a copy of my birth certificate long or short. I guess they do things differently there in the Catskill Mountains of New York.

Xinunus: "THE BOTTOM LINE IS UNLESS YOU KNOW THE DOCTOR AND HOSPITAL THAT DELIVERED OBAMA YOU KNOW NOTHING."

Really? Because I was born in the city and county of Denver. The birth certificate I requested so I could get my first passport says so as does my passport as approved and created by the Department of State. But it does not say the name of the hospital where I was born nor the doctor. So, I guess I should be worried that I might have been born on Mars.

Xinunus wrote "$5000 DOLLARS IF YOU CAN PROVE, I SAIDDDDDDDDDDD PROVE TO ME WHAT HOSPITAL AND DOCTOR DELIVERED OBAMA."

Again, if Obama was able to orchestrate the falsification of his COLB, why would he not have been able to falsify some paper that would state his hospital and doctor. If that is the only "PROOF" you will accept, why would you accept it? It could have been made up a year ago on paper that was chemically aged, using ink that was chromatographically found to test as if from the 1960s, and so on. It could just as fake as you believe the short form to be, couldn't it? So, then where would you be? If this is the vast conspiracy you believe it to be, it's more vast than the alteration of the info on the COLB. It would include the death of anyone who could prove he was born outside the USA. It makes for a great plot for a thriller film, but it would be pretty hard to carry out in real life, wouldn't it?
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Xinunus wrote: "YOU WOULD FIT IN BETTER IF YOU LIVED IN RUSSIA OR CHINA..THIS IS THE KIND OF GARBAGE THEY FEED THEIR CITIZENS.."

Is the caps lock key on your computer stuck? All this yelling and animosity. It's senseless. But, your comments are an affront to the Chinese and Russian people. Your xenophobic tendencies are despicable. Nonetheless, I am a prideful citizen of the United States of America. I did not even ask for proof of Obama's citizenship because, after all, I had no reason to doubt it. Had he been a movie star and well known for having been born in Austria, that would have been different. Instead, all available evidence shows he was born in Hawai'i. Then he kindly produced a government issued certificate verifying his birth location as Honolulu, Hawai'i. Since this document is good enough for the department of state for the issuance of a US passport, I don't need anything else. You are the one with doubts, therefore the burden of proof is upon you. You have no proof that Obama was not born in the USA, and I have the proof of the certificate issued by the state of Hawai'i.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: You can argue until you are blue in the face as you have in the past that anyone can get one of these, which may or may not be true. I don't know if an inmate on Riker's Island serving live for murder can call Hawai'i and get a COLB. But, your use of the English language and its nuances are unrefined, so, perhaps, you meant that any couple of American citizens with a child born outside the USA can get a COLB. Which is true. I have a good friend who is a geophysicist. He and his wife are both from Wisconsin. They were doing research for the Norwegian government when their eldest son was born in Oslo. He has a COLB as proof of his citizenship, but guess what? It says he was born in Oslo, Norway. His parents didn't get to pick his place of birth. "Oh, let's say, he was born in Honolulu, yeah, that's nice and warm. He'll grow up so proud of his birthplace." Ding dong, nobody home. Get a clue. You can be an American Citizen and be born outside the USA, like John McCain, for example. The definition of Natural Born is hotly debated anyway, because a lot of people, I'm assuming like yourself, state that it means a person has to be born in the USA. Whereas John McCain was not born in the USA, he was born in Panama. However, the generally accepted definition is that you have to be born of American Citizens, but you can be born anywhere, which is why John McCain would fit under that definition. There have only ever been questions of citizenship when a person is born outside the USA with one parent a citizen or when the other nation allows dual citizenship. As for people who are born in the USA, anywhere in the USA (not sure about the reservations of the indigenous people but that would be an interesting question), you are a natural born USA citizen...period, even if both your parents are foreign.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: If two German tourists were visiting and had their baby in Disney Land, the baby would be a citizen of the USA. It would be up to German law and the parents to decide with the kid later which nation he would choose because the USA and Germany do not allow dual citizenship. But, if that kid picked USA at age 18, he could run for the presidency. He would be a natural born citizen. I'm sure you don't like that example, but it's a fact.
17 months ago: xinunus said: "I BET YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT OBAMA CAMPAIGNED FOR ODINGA EITHER DONT YOU? "

I'm stunned. You are CORRECT!
17 months ago: xinunus said:

UNTIL OBAMA PROVES TO USE [sic] WHAT HOSPITAL AND DOCTOR DELIVERED HIM HE HAS NOT PROVEN HE IS NATURAL BORN.. [sic]

YOU KNUCKLEHEADS WANT TO CHANGE THE RULES AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DONT [sic] WANT TO ADMIT YOUR [sic] WRONG.

END OF STORY. OBAMA IS A PRESIDENT THAT IS UNCONSTITUTIONALLY [sic] ENELIGABLE [sic] TO BE PRESIDENT.

Asking for the doctor and hospital is changing the rules on your part. I checked the Constitution and found nothing about either doctors or hospitals.

Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
17 months ago: Good points, Dr. C.
16 months ago: xinunus,

Embossed, signed, paper Certification of Live Birth — "Not released"

So what is this, chopped liver?

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_7.jpg

Note the words "Certification of Live Birth", Signature and Seal. And that is the only document that has any relevance to Obama's qualifications to be president. Do you have some kind of fetish about prying into people's private things?

One Lawsuit dismissed?

Ankeny v. Daniels dismissed
Berg v. Obama et al dismissed
Berg v. Obama et al SCOTUS appeal denied
Brockhausen v. Andrade dismissed
Broe v. Reed - dismissed
Cohen v. Obama - dismissed
Connerat v. Browning - dismissed
Donofrio v Wells - dismissed
Donofrio v Wells SCOTUS appeal - denied
Ealey v. Obama - dismissed
Essek v. Obama - dismissed
Herbert v. Obama et al - dismissed
Hollister v. Soetoro - dismissed
Hunter v. Obama - dismissed
Keyes v. Bowen - dismissed
Keyes v. Lingle - dismissed
Lightfoot v. Bowen - dismissed
Lightfoot v. Bowen SCOTUS appeal - denied
Morrow v. Barak Humane Obama - dismissed
Neely v. Obama - dismissed
Roy v. Obama - dismissed
Schneller v. Cortes - denied
Stamper v. US - dismissed
Strunk - Federal NY - dismissed
Strunk - 2nd circuit - denied
Sullivan v. Marshall - dismissed
Terry v. Handel - denied
Welch v. Mukasey et al - dismissed
Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz - dismissed
Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz SCOTUS Appeal - denied

So that's 30 losses, zero wins and less than a dozen on appeal or awaiting a court date (when they too will be dismissed as frivolous).
16 months ago: Oh, and

Thomas v. Hosemann - dismissed
Greenberg v. Brunner - dismissed
Neal v. Brunner - dismissed
Marquis v. Reed - dismissed
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: 1. Factcheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Univ of Pennsylvania ("APPC") Obama has never been ““heavily associated with” or "served on the board of" the APPC.

2. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 “to create a community of scholars that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.” Obama has never been “heavily associated with” Walter (or Leonore) Annenberg.

3. The Annenbergs, also established The Annenberg Foundation, which funds the APPC and issues grants worth $100M.

4. Leonore Annenberg endorsed McCain for president.

5. The Annenberg Foundation, which funds the APPC and issues grants on a wide variety of issues, worth $100M funded the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Sen. Obama served on the board .

In the 1990s, Obama served on the board of an organization that received funding from a foundation, which
(a) was established and funded by a couple, the surviving member of whom expressly, publicly, endorsed McCain; and
(b) now provides 100s of millions of dollars of grants to a wide variety of public interest organizations, including the organization (APPC) that runs Fact.check.org.

Nice try. You lose.
16 months ago: xinunus,

"Nice try, Doc."

Obama never worked for the Annenberg Public Policy Center, and the Annenberg Public Policy Center was not founded by Bill Ayers.

I will be expecting an apology and and explanation for your false statements. You DO believe people should be held accountable for their actions, no?
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
16 months ago: Xinunus: You are nothing if you are not amusing.

You blast factcheck.org, a sit funded by GOP supporters, but then cite nothing but WND as your source of info? Talk about a site run by radicals. Wow. I don't know how you sleep at night with all these WND conspiracy theories running rampant in your mind.

I note that you continue to choose not to address any of my facts and your lack of them. You continue to cite half truths and so on. But, as I wrote you are nothing if not amusing. Keep it up. Someday, maybe someone will turn your lunacy into a Broadway Musical.
16 months ago: xinunus said:

"BOTH FACTCHECK.org AND THE Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) GET/GOT THERE MONEY TO BECOME INTO BEING FROM THE Annenberg Public Policy Center THROUGH THE Annenberg Foundation. "

And that is the essential mistake that makes the rest go awry. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge did not get their money through Annenberg Public Policy Center. The connection you made is a fake.

The connection between Obama and FactCheck is a fraud, a lie, a smear and deserving of 20 lashes with a rotten noodle, a smelly rotten noodle that will properly mark the person so lashed as not worth of interaction with the general population.

16 months ago: The very smelly xinunus said:

"Supreme Court asked to cooperate with FBI
Attorney investigating Obama's eligibility reports cyber attacks "

More accurate version:

"Supreme Court asked [by nutcase Orly Taitz] to cooperate with FBI Attorney [she wishes was] investigating [her mad fantasies about] Obama's eligibility reports cyber attacks "
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: Orly Titz isn't even an American. You can always tell a fraud when they use titles incorrectly. For instance, no real doctor uses "Dr. Orly Titz, M.D." It's either Dr. or MD, not both. She uses Dr. Orly Titz, Esquire. Now that's funny. This KGB import is an affront to Americans everywhere. She should be sent back to Russia.

Interesting that this "movement" has one supporter on this site, xinunus, which is Latin for ****.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: You MUST be brain dead. NOBODY gets a long-form certificate anymore from Hawaii and nobody ever will. They stopped giving them out about 30 years ago. Sure Obama has his birth certificate. He got it from his father long ago before they stopped giving them out. He knows he is a legal citizen. That's what is so funny about this. If he requested a vault copy now, he would receive a laser short-form copy. That's exactly what he did and it is that copy he received that created this mess and served as a real distraction to you nutcases.

Further proof of his birth in Hawaii is the newspaper birth announcement in both Hawaii newspapers in 1961. Both newspapers certify that they only printed announcements received from the Department of Health and not from any private citizen.

You need a new issue. You lost this one.
16 months ago: xinunus continues his uninformed rant thusly:

"LET ME CLARIFY THIS FOR DR DORK

THE Annenberg Public Policy Center IS A PLACE THAT PROVIDES GRANTS WORTH TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THROUGH A FOUNDATION CALLED THE Annenberg Foundation"

xiunus shouts so loudly that he seems deaf to the facts which I document for him one last time:

He has it backwards. The Annenberg Foundation is the main organization that funds the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania (which in turn funds FactCheck.org, but is not involved with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge).

Here's how it works, right from the Annenberg web site:

http://www.annenbergfoundation.org/other/

There are nine organizations listed there (other initiatives are on other pages on the site totaling $1.2 billion in grants and support):

* Annenberg Media

* The Annenberg Center for Communication at the University of Southern California

* The Annenberg Center for Health Sciences at the Eisenhower Medical Center

* Annenberg Challenge (Chicago Annenberg Challenge is one of the eighteen (18) sites funded by the Annenberg Challenge)

* Annenberg Foundation Trust at Sunnylands

* Annenberg Institute for School Reform

* The Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania (which funds projects including FactCheck.org)

* The Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania

* The Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California

Now I hope that clears up the Annenberg organizational structure. President Obama was chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, one of eighteen sites of the Annenberg Challenge which was Funded by the Annenberg Foundation which also funded the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania which funds, among other things, FactCheck.org.
16 months ago: I wish I could draw an organization chart for the Annenberg Foundation here and show how totally unconnected President Obama is from FactCheck.org.

Obama was long gone (and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge shut down) before FactCheck.org ever came in to existence.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: Orly Titz is exposed by another right wing nut:

MommaE writes:

The complaint is filed with the Bar Association to Disbar her and she damn well needs to be disbarred! There is NO excuse for what she has done and I only hope that her donors finally take her to Court and make her open the 2 PayPal accounts that she has. One is on Ed Hale’s site and it is her script that she sent to him for people to make donations to. They thought that is was going to her Defend Our Freedoms Foundation, like the one that was on her site, but it isn’t, it is going to her Personal Account.

There are NO “Naturalization” documents that can be found to prove that she is a “Naturalized Citizen” of the USA. There is NO Voter Registration for her to be found and the only State she has lived in since 1987 is California.

She has never had a legal case except to defend herself against more than a dozen Malpractice suits against her. She said she got her Dental Degree in Israel in 1989, but unfortunately she was in California having a baby. Does she even have a REAL Dental Degree/License is my question, or something she got online like her Law Degree? Maybe that explains all of her Malpractice suits. Her husband was arrested for Fraud and Assualt and he hired someone else to defend him. I wonder why?? She is now saying she is a Constitutional Law Expert, I find that LIE amazing, since she has never written a Legal Pleading in her life and did not attend an Accredited Law School.

Love and Hugs to All,
MommaE

Comment by Exploring the Natural Born Citizen Clause | April 19, 2009
16 months ago: xinanus said:

"AS FOR DR. DORK..

AND YOUR POINT IS?"

My point is that you had your facts about Annenberg all twisted up, and your comments relating Obama and FactCheck.org have been proved invalid. FactCheck.org remains a credible reporter and fact checker. Their examination of the COLB is valid and worthy of trust.

[Note the style: upper and lower case, punctuation, good grammar and spelling.]

If a trial were ever held and some evidence (not known today) should arise calling the Hawaiian birth registration into question, the court would give considerable weight to the newspaper publication of births from the department of health. It would be a contemporary record and carry significant weight.
16 months ago: MommaE wrote:

"They thought that i[t] was going to her Defend Our Freedoms Foundation, like the one that was on her site, but it isn’t, it is going to her Personal Account. "

I got an email from Orly this afternoon saying that all the PayPal accounts had been closed and that she no longer accepts contributions via PayPal. She said to mail all donations (tax deductible!) to:

Save The Whales
1192 Waring Street
Seaside, CA 93955

Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
16 months ago: Xinus, the time has come to challenge your patriotism.
Do you believe in defending the Constitution of the United States of America?
If so, do you believe that a man is innocent until proven guilty?
If so, where is your proof that Barack Obama is not a citizen? Your lack of proof is what's holding this whole thing up and causing judge after judge to toss out these baseless lawsuits. Obama has produced proof acceptable to the Dept. of State as evidence of his citizenship. You choose not to accept it, well, you might choose not to accept that the earth is round and not flat.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: He is stunned. He believed it was flat. You'll have to provide the name of the doctor who turned it into an orb. Unfortunately, X is a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic and his comprehension skills are iffy at best.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: He's screaming. USING ALL CAPS. Falling apart at the seams. Obama is President and now he'll get to make the first of probably several Supreme Court appointments that I'm sure will thrill little X baby. Oh, I forgot, he can't appoint anyone ... he's not the real president. Ha ha.
Mountain Jack
Mountain Jack
Sedona, AZ
16 months ago: Stay in school and learn to spell. Denial? You have the lock on that one.
16 months ago: Xinanus:

"WHAT IS HOLLARIOUS IS OBAMA SCARING THOUSANDS OF MANHATTAN RECIDENTS LMAO.. "

X's remark, not to be confused with truth, is totally off base. Obama was not informed in advance of the stunt, and the person who did it has lost his job.

And while on the X misinformation trail, the judge did not dismiss the case BECAUSE the issue had been "twittered"; he only commented that it was. I read the whole decision (which was quite informative, referring in the main to Judge Surrick's "scholarly opinion" in Pennsylvania in the original Berg v. Obama).

Xinanus probably doesn't have the attention span to complete a paragraph, much less a lengthy legal opinion, but the Surrick opinion is a real education on why the courts must dismiss these suits. For others who are interested in bettering themselves, here's the link:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/28/
15 months ago: In a major breakthrough xinunus has discovered the 26 lower-case letters. This will make communication easier. To the list of 20 objections the COLB, I would say two things. First xinunus probably has no idea as to what some of them mean, and therefore is unaware that some of them are just plain false. The other is that he ignores the close up photos of the COLB done by an independent fact checking organization. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html . These photos include the back, and show the certificate numbers.

To xinununs list of documents, I would just say that the "pattern" is Obama opponents asking for irrelevant documents. Of course, some of the documents about which xinunus says "no real documents" have actually been published.

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