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It is hopeless to not be a Scientologist

Posted 38 months ago|118 comments|1,442 views
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Many people regard Scientology as the greatest of Founder L Ron Hubbard's many gifts to humanity.

Scientology has been the key to spiritual freedom for millions of Americans. These adherents use Scientology to improve their lives, daily.

So, why is Scientology attacked so vehemently by psychiatrists, criminals and the insane?

L Ron Hubbard put it this way :

"If Aunt Ermintrude each night went through your change purse and extracted divers coins without your knowledge, and then if she found you had joined a group that could discover secrets, her immediate and passionate reaction would be to damn the group and you as well."

The key is that criminals fear Scientology. But Scientology wins out.

For example, the state of Victoria Australia, was founded by the lowest criminal classes of England. This convict state enacted unconstitutional laws against the practice of Scientology. You could have gone to jail for learning how to improve conditions or reading a book.

Scientologists used their technology to see to it that these laws were overturned by the High Court. As always, Scientology wins out, and continues to go from strength to strength, delivering workable solutions and total freedom to thousands of former criminals in Australia.

L Ron Hubbard said:

"It's as simple as that. We do not treat the sick or the insane. We break no laws. We do more good in any ten minutes of this planet's time than the combined efforts of all social ministries on Earth to better mankind.

Stated that way, however, it looks pretty hopeless and even dangerous to be a Scientologist.

Except it is totally hopeless and fatal not to be a Scientologist. "

The world's worst criminals, such as Ted Bundy, and Osama Bin Laden, have been not been Scientologists, and most of them have been influenced by psychiatrists.

The world's greatest leaders, scientists and artists, such as L Ron Hubbard, Sky Dayton, Tom Cruise, David Gaiman, Kate Ceberano, and Lord McNair, have been Scientologists.

All over the world, people are clamoring for Scientology technology. Individuals and libraries all over are begging for more copies and new editions of all of L Ron Hubbard's works on Scientology.

Scientology is well on track to clear the planet.

To find out about the greatest proponents of betterment on the planet, or to try it for yourself, check out the links.

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COMMENTS
38 months ago: Lol, troll thread fails.

BTW, one of the 20th centuries greatest lunatics, Charles Manson, recieved scientologist training. You can add that to your famous list of people.
38 months ago: dangerranger

That is a myth and distortion about Charles Manson.

"Scientology critics like to present Charles Manson as a typical Scientologist. Manson, however, only dabbled into Scientology for a short time, alongside many other subjects. Scientology had nothing to do either in the horrible murders he pushed his followers to perpetrate. This does not prevent critics from presenting a completely distorted picture of the reality. This page provides all the facts necessary to understand the situation in a correct perspective."

http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/charles_manson_and_scientology.htm
38 months ago: Remember, Scientology is the greatest thing in the world right now. You would be completely stupid and ignorant not to become one of us.

We're clearing the planet, several hundreds of clams at a time!
38 months ago: Ok, add David Miscavige, your leader, to your list, who has confirmmed reports against him from witnesses and victims who suffered his abuses and beatings.

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/dm.htm
38 months ago: You also forgot to add Reed Slatkin who funneled money out of the cult into his ponzi scheme.
38 months ago: For those who don't know, we humans evolved from clams, not monkeys or from adam and eve as those evil psychiatrists that Nazi Germany aided by Xenu invented and implanted in our heads, as the great L. Ron Hubbard said so himself.

http://cgi.amazing.com/scientology/clam-faq.html
38 months ago: So, why is Anonymous and anyone who speaks out against Scientology attacked so vehemently by Scientology?

L Ron Hubbard put it this way :

"If Aunt Ermintrude each night went through your change purse and extracted diverse coins without your knowledge, and then if she found you had joined a group that could discover secrets, her immediate and passionate reaction would be to damn the group and you as well."

hmm...
38 months ago: dangerranger

I don't think hate sites are a good source of information. Mr Miscavige is one of the world's most effective humanitarians and dedicated to preserving the technology of L Ron Hubbard. This is the very opposite of a criminal.
38 months ago: Look Jack, I swear if you tell us how you are really feeling, Miscavige won't pop out of the shadows behind you and start beating on you.
38 months ago: Because no one's allowed to speak out against us. It's a hate crime and we've killed, kidnapped, intimidated, and sued people over it in the past.

We are and will always be above the law. We're in your Governments changing your laws, we're in your police departments enforcing them and harassing our critics, we're in your hospitals throwing away all medicine and replacing it with our own tech, and we're in your schools indoctrinating your children to become future scientologists.

You cannot stop us, we will become the world's single most powerful entity and those who oppose us will die.
38 months ago: Ooookaaay. Let us begin shall we?

"Many people regard Scientology as the greatest of Founder L Ron Hubbard's many gifts to humanity."

That is not a sentence.

"Scientology has been the key to spiritual freedom for millions of Americans. These adherents use Scientology to improve their lives, daily."

Recent polls put scientology's numbers in the US at around 60,000. Worldwide it's estimated that there are maybe 100,000.

"So, why is Scientology attacked so vehemently by psychiatrists, criminals and the insane?"

Annnd so the adhominims begin. You still haven't shown how everyone attacking scientology is criminal, much less insane.

"The key is that criminals fear Scientology. But Scientology wins out."

Has been banned outright in Russia, is being tried for fraud in both France and Belgium. Is under investigation for child abuse in Australia (NOT Austria) and has a criminal record in Canada.

Hardly winning, oh and nice adhom against Australia btw.

"The world's worst criminals, such as Ted Bundy, and Osama Bin Laden, have been not been Scientologists, and most of them have been influenced by psychiatrists."

Citation please, on all of that including how Ted Bundy ranks up there with Osama Bin Laden.

--PT1
38 months ago: --PT2

"It's as simple as that. We do not treat the sick or the insane."

You won't let psychiatry either.

"We break no laws."

Yes you do, wikipedia fairgame, operation snowhite and operation freakout.

"We do more good in any ten minutes of this planet's time than the combined efforts of all social ministries on Earth to better mankind."

Citation please. Simply saying something does not make it so!

38 months ago: Scientology buildings are Hate sites? I see the Opression at all the buildings, I've SEEN their game in action. MANY have seen their crazy criminal actions. Many more will. The more your cult attacks anyone critical of it, the more your cult looks... Culty. Like Organized Crime.
38 months ago: To learn more about scientology google:
Whyaretheydead.com
xenu.net
exscientologykids.com
Operation Freakout
Operation Snow White
scientology's Fair Game Policy
OT3 - scientologists, save yourself $340,000.00+ to get to the higher OT levels - its all on the internet now.

This should keep you busy for a while and then decide if L Ron Hubbard and the current management of this cult run by David Miscavige aren't the biggest criminals.

dianetics/scientology is a trap - stay free.
38 months ago: --PT3

"The world's greatest leaders, scientists and artists, such as L Ron Hubbard, Sky Dayton, Tom Cruise, David Gaiman, Kate Ceberano, and Lord McNair, have been Scientologists."

LRH was a convicted fraudster. Cruise's career took a spectacular nosedive when Paramount fired his crazy ****. David Gaiman was an unindited co conspirator in the concerted attacks against Paulette Cooper, wherin Scientology tried to drive someone to suicide and framed her for making bomb threats. Sky Dayton is an entrepaneur who despite being a scientologist doesn't actually give you any cash and hasn't for years. Kate Ceberano... A singer no one outside of Australia has ever heard of and finally, Lord McNair, who doesn't seem to exist.

All in all, a pretty pathetic bunch. hardly the worlds greatest, by any stretch.

"All over the world, people are clamoring for Scientology technology."

Which is why globally stats are flatlining.

"Individuals and libraries all over are begging for more copies and new editions of all of L Ron Hubbard's works on Scientology."

Ahh the library scam... Tell you what chum, each of these libraries were supposed to receive a full set of basic Scientology books (Dianetics, Way to Happiness etc). Many of these libraries show their inventorys online. Go see for yourself how many actually have received this set.

"Scientology is well on track to clear the planet."

Which is why this year at the LRH birthday bash, Miscavage didn't talk more then 30 seconds on booming stats, a far cry from say, 2000 where every other sentence was "This org produced X amount of Clears and a new OT"...
38 months ago: ScientologyLover87

You have not have read "Scientology: A History of Man" correctly. The book simply provides a factual account of incidents over the last sixty trillion years.

Anyone interested in history would do well to read it.

Clams are simpler genetic entities, precursors to apes and humans, but relevant to the whole track of experience of present day humans.
38 months ago: Lol, if only Scientology had been around for Hitler, the Black Plague, slavery, Salem Witch Trials, Ghengis Khan, the Dark Ages, Stalin, and more, then none of the world's problems would have ever happened.
38 months ago: "Scientology is well on track to clear the planet."
... Of Scientologists...
38 months ago: How the fwuck does a book provide a factual account for the last 60 trillion years if the universe has only been here for 13 billion.

Quote from "Scientology: A History of Man", "60 Trillion years to 13 billion years - nothing at all."
38 months ago: Also how dare you critisize ScientologyLover87. This guy loves scientology, he obviously knows his stuff. If YOU loved scientology as much as this guy Jack, you would have changed your name to Scientologylover-Jack-H-Remmington. I'm going to have to listen to the lover and not the guy posing as one
38 months ago: DO NOT QUESTION OUR SAVIOR'S WORK! NOTHING COMPARES TO HIM! ESPECIALLY NOT THAT PEDOPHILE JESUS AND NOT THAT KANSAS SALESMAN MOHAMMAD!
38 months ago: Ya, no one make fun of Tom Cruise, just like scientologylover87 said.
38 months ago: Our savior's words on that man from Kansas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbfDKf2lG-0

And that pedophile, Jesus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk03n7rMJ1o

38 months ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeosYvdUuxQ <-- and his written words on Jesus being a pedophile and being a false man.
38 months ago: Yep, any religion that critisizes Jesus of being a pedophile sure makes me feel hopeless for not joining.
38 months ago: "You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself a nigger; that's what they're born for."

–Written by L. Ron Hubbard, in a letter to first wife, Polly Grubb
38 months ago: "You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees. Get yourself a nigger; that's what they're born for."

A man who wants to reinstitue slavery, wow he sure is a gift to humanity.
38 months ago: More inspiring quotes from our Great Leader, L. Ron Hubbard.

http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/deny.htm
38 months ago: L Ron Hubbard was an acknowledged master of more than a dozen disciplines. He was an accomplished mariner, author, aviator and musician.

All of this is apart from his accomplishments in bringing us Dianetics and Scientology.

As a great man, he has attracted a lot of made-up criticism.
38 months ago: Don't forget that he was an acknowledged master of pulling things out of his a-ss.
38 months ago: and putting them in others, I'd assume.
38 months ago: "L Ron Hubbard was an acknowledged master of more than a dozen disciplines. He was an accomplished mariner, author, aviator and musician."

Prove it.
38 months ago: By mariner you must meen where he chased an invisible submarine around the cost of San Diego and Mexico, almsot insiting conflict betweent US and MX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Military_career

Or by Mariner do you meen the later part of his life where he escaped criminal persecution on the high seas in his boat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Legal_difficulties_and_life_on_the_high_seas
38 months ago: *coast
not cost.
38 months ago: "musician"

Yes, I've heard his music. I use the word music in the loosest possible sense however. His music was produced at the same time as things like Woodstock were going on. In comparason, his tunes (if they could even be called that) were rank amateur, possibly the sort of thing you'd expect a five year old to produce when first introduced to a piano.

Musician he was not.
38 months ago: Commonsense

I am glad you are interested in L Ron Hubbard.

http://www.egnet.co.uk/halloffame/hubbard.htm
http://www.lronhubbard.org/
http://www.lronhubbardprofile.org/
http://www.ronthepoet.org/
http://literary.lronhubbard.org/
http://adventurer.lronhubbard.org/
38 months ago: ya, go to the propaganda sites for the truth!
38 months ago: Got anything written by someone who isn't just quoting Hubbard or scientology shill?

Documentary evidence. Use it.
38 months ago: Shalashar Dekeres

You are wrong there. Many of the world's best contemporary musicians acknowledge owing a lot to L Ron Hubbard's insights into music and creativity.

http://www.ronthemusicmaker.org/
http://www.lronhubbard.org/profile/music.htm
http://www.ronthemusicmaker.org/listen.htm
http://www.lronhubbard.org/Special.htm
38 months ago: L Ron Hubbard the "musician":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBuZh76CnoY

You can listen to the whole thing or start at 2:30. Either way I advise you to keep all sharp objects locked away.
38 months ago: meh, i looked up the poetry, i've seen better on live journal by emo 14 year old girls.
38 months ago: "You are wrong there."

No, I'm not. The crap that was claimed to be the best thing since sliced bread in terms of music was utter utter trash.

"Many of the world's best contemporary musicians acknowledge owing a lot to L Ron Hubbard's insights into music and creativity."

Name one that has used Hubbard's "music" as the basis for their own hit singles.

And again. Using Hubbard quoting himself is not proof.

Have you ever heard his stuff?!? It is a crime against music to call his crap such!
38 months ago: Jack H Remmington wrote:

"Commonsense

I am glad you are interested in L Ron Hubbard."

Interested in L Ron Hubbard - Hell no, he left me dry.

38 months ago: L. Ron's music is the only music I listen to. It might be expensive then all the other music psychiatry puts out to brainwash the world, but it's worth it!
38 months ago: Using Jack's Logic:

Dangerranger quotes,"I am the greatest man ever. LRH might of invented scientology but I created LRH. I also created poetry, music, song, dance, speach, language, the theory of reletivity, the moon, the interent, and twinkies."

Thus it must be. Bow before the ruler and creator of the twinkie. Bow to me.
38 months ago: I'm not really interested in arguing about tastes in music. If you are not interested in it you don't have to listen to it. I don't think any of the commenters have taken time to read the links I provided before making nonsensical comments.

Kate Ceberano is THE FOREMOST female vocalist in Australia.

Tom Constanten is an outstanding keyboardist.

Doug E. Fresh is an amazing rap artist.

Chick Corea is a GRAMMY winner.

Isaac Hayes is a LEGEND.

John Travolta topped the charts ALL OVER THE WORLD.

If you don't like it, so what?
38 months ago: Ya, but i invented music so by defualt, all those awards and honors go to me.
38 months ago: And you have yet to prove that Hubbard was in any way responsible for any of the above.

I am judging his music not on personal taste, but on technical merit - it has NONE.

38 months ago: dangerranger wrote:
"Ya, but i invented music so by defualt, all those awards and honors go to me."

All hail dangerranger! We are not worthy! ;)
38 months ago: Well, maybe we can cut LRon a tiny bit of slack seeing as he couldn't devote too much time to his music because in 1978 LRon was convicted in absentia by French authorities of engaging in fraud and sentenced to four years in prison. Its so hard to be up on the tone scale when you're running from the law and other ports of call don't want you or your boat with its faux navy a callin'.
38 months ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDd9fW7g4Y&feature=related
^ Hubbard in his own words about Christianity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6fwzOYoAfY&feature=related
^ Hubbard in his own words calling Alister Crowley his very dear friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUm50ujYiCo&NR=1
^ About the Casbah and Muhammad...
38 months ago: Poor Jack, he tries so hard to win, but facts just keep making him lose. If only there was a place where facts didn't matter, that place would be perfect for him. Oh wait, its called scientology, my bad. No one why he joined.
38 months ago: Correction:
Isaac Hayes WAS a Legend.
Scientology did him a great service...
Making him end his Profitable Career as Chef on South Park,
And later again failed him by making him think his medicine was bad. Ihn effect, killing him... or did he go on to further OT research like Hubbard?
38 months ago: Wow, I didn't know Isaac had died. So he died like Travolta, by being taken off of his medication? That really sucks.
38 months ago: So I guess its also hopeless to be a scientologist if you need medication.
38 months ago: Dangerranger wrote:
"Poor Jack, he tries so hard to win, but facts just keep making him lose. If only there was a place where facts didn't matter, that place would be perfect for him. Oh wait, its called scientology, my bad."

He must be desperate to get his stats up this week and its not even Thursday! If you want to know what scientologists really worship its STATS! Remmington, how do you live with this constant pressure? Why do you live with this constant pressure? Is this what you got into scientology for?
Can you read anything you like? Visit any websites you like and not lose the critical thinking skills you had before you joined scientoloy? How is your circle of friends and family these days? Getting smaller? Afraid you might have to disconnect from them if you can't handle them and their critical thinking skills? Afraid to admit to new people that you are a scientologist? How many times have you been regged for money so far this year? Taking out loans for more auditing? Worried about where you are going to get the money? Are you tired of not being able to talk yet? Can't discuss scientology with other scientologist and can't discuss scientology with the general public either. Did you ever imagine that you would allow a group to do this to you, that you allowed yourself to do this to you?
38 months ago: THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.. (best album ever)
I WRITE THIS JUST FOR YOU.. (all the best musicians)
BUT OTHERS HEARING THIS MIGHT FIND.. (like lrh, chick and JT)
THINGS THEY WOULD ARGUE... (you worship this guy?)
38 months ago: I like it, nice article. There IS something you CAN know about your own spirituality. It IS a subject, it is not a nothing. There is something to know.

Ron Hubbard spent a good deal of the 34 years he wrote about Scientology, filling in the missing steps of the subject. He made the gradient a more gentle slope. He made the steps of understanding spirituality, smaller and easier to comprehend. And David Miscavige's management continues this same effort. That effort creates an easier path to understanding one's own spirituality.
38 months ago: I do not believe that David Miscavige nor L Ron Hubbard have made the steps easier. Freezoners are not condoned by the church, the use of disconnection if anything causes personal strife and inhibits one's personal understanding of spirituality. The thought of labour camps such as Gold Base furthering one's spirituality is simply unfathomable. Making one pay for classes instead of being taught freely decays the spirtuality of the organization by only giving access to the teachings to people who are rich enough to afford them. For these reasons, and even more unlisted ones, LRH and DM have not facilitated the path to understanding one's spirituality.
Anon612
Anon612
Clearwater, FL
38 months ago: "And David Miscavige's management continues this same effort."

Is that why he's squirrelling the tech? I mean, Hubbard releases the "perfect" and "final" form of something, and the Dwarf comes along and releases an edited form of it....
38 months ago: I'm still curious as to why L Ron Hubbard, a man who was so absolute in his condemnation of psychology, psychiatry and their associated medications, had been taking Vistaril, an anti-depressant medication shortly before his death (the coroner's report found traces of it in his body, and Dr Denk, a local physician, testified that he'd administered it on several occasions.
So much for the magic OT powers that negate the need for medication of any kind. And while we're at it, why has there NEVER been any demonstration of any of the OT "superpowers" that LRH promised? Telekinesis, perfect total recall, "clear" of any and all aberrations, permanently Cause over Life, real-life Cause over MEST, etc.... You'd think Scientology would publicise anyone who'd achieved these things, to show that the tech works, wouldn't you? But they haven't, for the simple reason that it's nothing more than a load of made-up nonsense by a pathological liar who wanted nothing more than to get rich.
ChanologyAgent
ChanologyAgent
Beverly Hills, CA
38 months ago: I'm disappointed. Jack isn't playing ball anymore? What happened to "shattering suppression"? You'd think all that Auditing would let him handle mere psych-drug addled teenagers, hmm?
38 months ago: If scientologists have control over M.E.S.T. why are there critics of scientology? One would think that if scientology had even one "clear" that they should be able to get rid of any criticism.
38 months ago: "I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form, even if all the books are destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned."
~L. Ron Hubbard
38 months ago: I'd like to know why the Church of Scientology promotes hatred and religious bigotry towards me and others like me for practicing our beliefs. I am a Scientologist and a former member of the Church. I was raised in it since childhood. I've seen the abuses with my own eyes. The threats, friends who've been forced to have abortions in the Sea Org, the low wages and genuine human suffering, the constant intimidation for asking question and the scam to get more and more money from people. I couldn't be a part of such a suppressive, criminal and abusive organization so I left.

I still believe the tech works and that it's useful. I am still a practicing Scientologist who joined the Free Zone, part of several organizations around the world where people can study and practice Scientology outside of the criminal abusive Church. As a result, I've been threatened by Church officials. I've been stalked and harassed and declared a traitorous criminal. I've been disconnected from my friends and family. I and many who are like me have been threatened with malicious litigation and harassed by the Church of Scientology who seeks to prevent me from practicing my religion or having access to religious tech books they claim to own.

They have engaged in a persistant campaign of religious hatred, illegal threats, and bigotry against my freedom to choose my spiritual path and worship as I please. They're the real criminals here. I am not an EX Scientologist, I am a current Scientologist. Why are you, the Church of Scientology, and RTC continuing your terroristic campaign of hatred and intolerance?
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: I knew i should've kept my mouth shut, and now here we go, three posts about Scientology.

ugh.
38 months ago: TheLegendTomWing wrote:

"I knew i should've kept my mouth shut, and now here we go, three posts about Scientology.

ugh"

Why have any regrets? Posting your original rant may one day save a person and their family a life time of pain and suffering.

Google ExScientoloyKids.com "I was born. I grew up. I escaped"
Google WhyAreTheyDead.com - sadly, its too late for these people
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
38 months ago: Watch this: http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

Quite unnerving and cites scholarly sources
38 months ago: google Kyle Brennan
google Kaja Ballo
google Martine Boublil and see how very close Ms. Boublil was to becoming the next Lisa McPherson.
you don't know who Lisa McPherson was?
by all means, google Lisa McPherson...
Anon612
Anon612
Clearwater, FL
38 months ago: Google Shawn Lonsdale.
38 months ago: Yes, Isaac Hayes died. I don't think he was forced off the medication, Rather, scared off it.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
38 months ago: "All over the world, people are clamoring for Scientology technology. Individuals and libraries all over are begging for more copies and new editions of all of L Ron Hubbard's works on Scientology."

Poor Jack! He's bought the baloney, and swallowed the terminal tackle! You poor goof, I am on several library boards here in Socal. Yes, we have received big boxes of Scientology materials, paid for by the gullible twerps who really think we have shelf space for this garbage. Oh by all means, let's throw out Bradbury and Asimov to make room for Hubbard!

You know what we do? Those books go straight into the "for sale" pile, if they're lucky. Other libraries, well aware that they won't even get a nickel for the sets, stuff them in the recycle bin.

Please don't send us any more books! We don't need them, we don't want them, and if you believe people are "clamoring for Scientology" you've been hoodwinked, gulled, scammed, conned, tricked, defrauded.

Yes, I have a thesaurus. No, I won't replace it with Battlefield Earth or the egregiously laughable 'History of Man.'

SNAP SNAP SNAP!!
Moneen
Moneen
South Africa, Republic of
38 months ago: Scientology is merely a reinvention of other religions including psychology.
Hubbard merely brought out a considered modern model of his reinventions.
U can if u look find a reinvention of almost every religion, philosophy & ideaology in Scientology.
Putting a considered scientific face to Scientology is the impression that it is scientific.
This is reinventing science via science fiction.
Hubbard was smart & he knew what his market needed & wanted.
He even reivented his own gestapo or ideaological police that can be a reivention of the Spanish Inquisition in its quest for pure Catholicism. This would be his religious police.
I was in Scientology a very long time & my conclusion is that Hubbard could not equal or supercede good old Jesus & for this reason the higher a person goes in Scientology the more are the implanted to hold Jesus in contempt giving all of reverence to Hubbard.
Anyway give Scientologists what belong to them as long as they don't interfere with the democratic rights of others.

xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
38 months ago: Unfortunately, the Scientologists seem to think they have the right to violate the basic rights of others.
The right to speak out against Scientology abuses.
The right to speak out without fear of retribution.
The right to speak out without being harassed, interfered with, lied about, or intimidated.

Scientology has, in the past, done all these things to people. Scientology executives have directed campaigns to destroy the lives of people like Paulette Cooper, who wrote a book entitled 'The Scandal of Scientology' back in the 70s. Google her name. What they did to her was quite horrific, and not the only such story.

Then, when they're busted, these egregious piles of squat whine about intolerance and religious bigotry.

They're pretty despicable people.
38 months ago: No-one's saying Scientologists don't have the right to believe what they want, Moneen. It's the criminal, dangerous and unethical practices of the cult (and yes, it is a cult masquerading as a religion) that we object to.
38 months ago: So tell me, where is my crime in my story here?

I was the course supervisor for the Org and started a relationship with a staff member. The woman ended up getting pregnant. I was put on mest work and sec checked. The women soon became very, very critical of Scientology.

After all the mest work, sec checks and doing lower conditions, My Ethics officers were both the Snr C/S and ED.

The child ended up being twin girls! I was ready to route off staff and take care of my responsibility in this matter. Okay, you won't let me route off, I will go to a foundation schedule while I take a job so I can handle this. No go.

I was made to w/c HCO PL “Ethics, Justice and the Dynamics”, HCO PL “The Basics of Ethics” and then made to do a bunch of RPEC. I had previously had 1 long term girlfriend and I was like 21-22 when this went down. So having a messy 2d was just not something I was use to having.

After all the conditions, the RPEC and oh, did I mention “Conditions and Exchange by Dynamics”? I had to do that too, It was decided the only solution was for me to give up my rights as a dad. Man, I didn't want to do that. That was the only solution I could come up with after all the “ethics actions” done on me. Hell, it had to have been 100 hours of Sec Checks.
After leaving staff, me signing my rights away always, always and still does burns a hole in my heart. I just can't stand it sometimes.

If I ever meet them how the F---- do I explain this to them? Makes me so freaking mad and sad.

But now back to why I started this thread:

I gave up my rights as a parent, I do not thing if I were a woman and I got pregnant that I would have agreed to an abortion. I say that but heck I don't know. I also don't want anyone here to think I think any less of them or making them wrong or anything as at this point I am pointing to the Church as the cause.

my story is true
38 months ago: I became a very productive Course Supervisor ( i averaged over 3 Auditors Made a week over a 3 year period in a Class V org) as, again, I was convinced that the only way out of this mess was to make Auditors and get Auditing done so Mankind can once and for all know the answers on the 8th Dynamic.

I eventually became an ED and kept my Org in the top 20 of the B-Day Game for 5 years running. The Org had NEVER been even close to that.

Yep, I'm a "Crim" as Scientologist would say.
38 months ago: Hmmm, let's see . . . Let's come up with a short list of some people who are NOT Scientologists and see how they stack up against the examples held up as exemplary examples of Scientology.

Barack Obama. President of the United States of America. NOT a Scientologist.

Paul McCartney. Former Beatle and music legend. NOT a Scientologist.

Bill Gates. Founder of Microsoft. Made so much money he's gone off to cure malaria. NOT a Scientologist.

Richard Branson. Founder of Virgin. Another one of the richest men on the planet. NOT a Scientologist.

Prince. Music legend and, while admittedly moonbat insane, still NOT a Scientologist.

Andy Warhol. Hugely influential artist. Absolutely NOT a Scientologist. (Ruthenian Catholic, actually. Nifty trivia fact!)

Want me to keep going? I'm just coming up with names at random, on impulse. I don't have to dig to come up with names of prominent NON-Scientolgists the way you have to stretch to come up with names of 'prominent' Scientologists. What's your answer to that? If Scientology is so wonderful, how come the success stories of those few NON-Scientolgists I came up with pretty much mop the floor with any success story you can come up with for Scientology--up to, including, and especially, their founder, L. Ron Hubbard?
38 months ago: How many Sea Org Members have had abortions so they could stay in the Sea Org?
38 months ago: Ultrapoet, you forgot that every leader of every nation, since the beginning of time has been NOT-been a scientologist.
38 months ago: Well, 'the beginning of time' would be pushing things, since Scientology didn't come into being until the 1950s. Even then, if I were to list all the world leaders who were NOT Scientologists, well, we'd be here all day. To say nothing of Nobel Prize winners, writers and performers of #1 hit songs, Olympic Gold Medal winners, Pulitzer Prize winning authors, hell even Academy Award winners. There might be some Scientologists in that mix, thanks to the active recruitment efforts in L.A., but if there are, they're heavily outnumbered by NON-Scientologists.
38 months ago: pokerplayer - I'm sorry you had to go through all that. scientology likes to lie about there not being a disconnection policy but we all know it exists. They like to go on and on about Human Rights via their front group CCHR (Citizens Commission on Human Rights) but don't give a damn about their own members and their families and friends.

Other scientology front groups:
WISE - World Institute of Scientology Enterprises - they go after businesspeople, dentists, chiropractors, etc., and milk them for all their money
Narconon
Criminon
ABLE
The Road To Happiness
Applied Scholastics - yes, they try to get into your children's schools.
You can google for a complete list.

Also, beware of scientology Volunteer Ministers - more like vultures as they prey on the sick and dying.


38 months ago: Good start Ultra. You didn't list Judge Roy Bean though.
I have always had a problem trusting anyone that has an initial for a first name.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
38 months ago: But...but...
What about the Dianetics Racing Team and the Dianetics NASCAR?

Oh wait...they don't win. But, they attribute their success to Dianetics. /me wanders off, mumbling.
38 months ago: One of the keen observation that L Ron Hubbard makes is that the level of reason of a person is dependent on their emotional tone. For example if you try to reason with an angry man his level of reason will be low. Some one that is conservative will weigh things cautiously while someone who is high toned as in enthusiasm will think almost instantaneously and come up with solutions. You see this in sports and the arts. Those ranters who are in negative emotions will only reason to a point and to the limitations that their emotional tone allows.

My point? Scientology has a lot to offer and if you don't or can't get it sorry it may have something to do with your own attitude. Anonymousers check your head.
38 months ago: "My point? Scientology has a lot to offer and if you don't or can't get it sorry it may have something to do with your own attitude. Anonymousers check your head."

Ahh, going with the "critics are insane" line of attack. Perhaps, and this might be an uncomfortable realisation, but those who have a beef with the practices of the CoS have legitimate reason for doing so. You know, like the way they "handle" their critics for instance.

Or forced abortion. Or the exploitation of those within the Sea Org - working 85 hours for 50c an hour...

Child abuse.

Or their infiltration of government offices as a means to shut down investigation.

And so on and so on.

These are all perfectly legitimate reasons, yes some might be angry, many more however are simply quietly determined to work toward a day when either the abuses stop, or the CoS as a functional corporation is shut down.
38 months ago: Doug E. Fresh? Seriously Jack, you've got C-list celebs in your cult, tops. Travolta and Cruise used to be A-list, but with their bizarre behavior over the last few years, no one wants to see their movies anymore. Valkyrie, anyone?

Let's try a list of a few random celebrities who aren't Scientologists. Let's see, in movies you've got Harrison Ford, Johnny Depp, Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie, Julia Roberts, Gerard Butler, Nicole Kidman (heh), Reese Witherspoon, Daniel Craig, Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and just about ALL OTHER MOVIE STARS except the ones on your list.

In music there's... Oh hell, not even gonna bother here. It's almost everyone except Beck and Mr. Fresh. Whether you're talking about classic rock like Led Zeppelin and the Doors, grunge like Pearl Jam and Nirvana, or whoever, the bands and the music we listen to are largely populated by NON-SCIENTOLOGISTS. Johnny Cash? Wasn't a Scientologist. Trent Reznor? Isn't a Scientologist. Madonna? OK, she's a little kooky, but she's not a Scientologist.

Shall I keep going? The list of celebrities who aren't Scientologists is a lot longer than the list of minor and former celebrities who are.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
38 months ago: Judy, Judy, Judy!
L. Ron Hubbard was the master of stating the obvious. You can't reason with an angry man? Oh, let me find a reaction to that brilliant observation. Ah, here it is. DUH!
This is the same guy who "invented" Tone 40. Any kid with a fork near an electrical socket knows Tone 40. It's what your mom used to yell, "GET AWAY FROM THAT PLUG, YOU IDIOT CHILD!"

Hehe, and Hubbard actually went to the trouble of writing that down, like nobody ever noticed it before.

Actually, it's one of those things that is so very obvious, nobody bothered to point it out. What is fascinating is the subset of people like yourself, who actually think this is a "keen observation." It's not. It's stating the obvious. There will always be people around who will think this is innovative thinking. And many of them will pay big bucks to join the fruity little club started by Hubbard. Happily I am not one of them.
Moneen
Moneen
South Africa, Republic of
38 months ago: Hubbard was like in the story Walter Mitty requiring having been what he was not.
He invented his early life story having made it appear much more glamorous than how it really was.
He came from lower middle class background which is not a crime but he could not confront this so he invented how his grandfather had been rich & powerful.
He invented so many lies about his early background requiring having been a hero and which he had not been.
I believe Hubbard was a bit of a coward having allowed females including his then wife to have paid for his crimes against the IRS.
He wasn't totally bad & had a very cunning mind especially in copying religions & other knowledge that he reinvented under his copyright.
He was quick witted but not clever enough to know how in the future the Internet would find him out.
Admit it Scientologists Hubbard has been found out for the lies he told about his past.
It is no good staying in denial about this.


38 months ago: Beanbrains and bubbleheads refuse to understand for a very, very good reason. They prefer the emotion experienced when criticizing, arguing, and antagonizing. And when joined in a group, enjoy the emotion of associating with like minded people. Thus, some refuse to understand BECAUSE they prefer to feel what they are feeling. Rather than making an effort to understand.
38 months ago: "Beanbrains and bubbleheads"

Ahh the good ol Ad Hominim attack, when you just can't find a flaw in your opponants case - attack the person!

"They prefer the emotion experienced when criticizing, arguing, and antagonizing."

Argumentum absurdium? Got anything to back this up?

"when joined in a group, enjoy the emotion of associating with like minded people."

Citation, now. Because as it stands your assumption is based on nothing more then baseless assumption.

"Thus, some refuse to understand BECAUSE they prefer to feel what they are feeling. Rather than making an effort to understand."

Faulty conclusion based on a false assumption. Scientology's convictions are well documented, its "secret" texts leaked into the public domain for all to see. Its actions against critics plain for the world at large.

We know who, and more to the point "what" scientology represents. We know how it'll react. We know it, and its creators history. This is why we protest.

Any takers that he won't address a single point in this thread with his next comment either?
38 months ago: Huh? beanbrains and bubbleheads? WTF was that? You need to try to understand it's a Two-Way street - how about looking inward.

I still think it's funny that a Dodo made the intro-pic.
tells me alot.
38 months ago: Poor Terryeo, he thinks a first person source for all his arguments are his head and logic is what pops into it first.

(Source - DangerRanger's left temporal lobe)
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
38 months ago: The two main axioms of Scientology were actually written by W. C. Fields and P. T. Barnum and not by L. R. Hubbard

"It's immoral to allow a sucker to keep his money" - W. C. Fields

And

"There's a sucker born every minute" - P. T. Barnum
MikeMercer
MikeMercer
Glenn Dale, MD
38 months ago: I Read Hubbards "Dianetics" in like 1975. He said it could makie people super smart and immune to all disease. Next thing I know, 30 years later everyone is calling it a scam. Where are all the super smart disease free people to prove them wrong?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
38 months ago: The Super Smart, Disease Free people are not allowed to show off their powers. They are only allowed to tell you about their accomplishments after the fact, there accomplishments range from bringing down the Berlin Wall to keeping the Earth on it's axis. This short video which explains it very well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUG7q4pccqU
38 months ago: Well, Mr. Mercer, first of all, there is a missing element that you go past. People would have to, you see, make some personal effort themselves. They would have to be willing to do Dianetic activities and this requires confronting things that are not always comfortable and easy. Then, if you find you have greater personal freedom, more free attention, are better able to deal with the physical world and your income increases, and so on. Well, then you find you are a little bit smarter and a little bit less disease prone, a little less problem prone. You see how this follows? But don't take my word for it Mr. Mercer. For a modest cost you could walk into a Church and take their first course. You would see some of the people you reference.
38 months ago: "Well, Mr. Mercer, first of all, there is a missing element that you go past."

It's your fault if it doesn't work for you...

"People would have to, you see, make some personal effort themselves. They would have to be willing to do Dianetic activities and this requires confronting things that are not always comfortable and easy. "

You would have to submit yourself fully to the cult, allow it to subsume your will.

"Then, if you find you have greater personal freedom, more free attention, are better able to deal with the physical world and your income increases, and so on."

Oh no you don't. The state of clear comes with very very specific claims on what extra abilities you gain as a result, none of which have ever been proven.

Case in point: If even one "Clear" or "OT" existed, Anonymous would cease to exist upon that Clear or OT postulating it so.

"For a modest cost you could walk into a Church and take their first course."

Yes, you too could become a book one Auditor, but to get the "real" benefits, you'll have to take it all the way up to clear, for only a few tens of thousands of dollars! And of course, once you've gotten there, with little or nothing to show for it, you'll have to go onto the OT levels to get the "real" benefits.

It's a con, with the promissed reward always just over the next hill.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
38 months ago: Yep it's a well orchestrated scam. You get a few benefits from the pop psychology Hubbard slapped together, through the hypnosis of the TRs and regressive therapy of auditing, which you can do yourself. Then you spend the remainder of your time and money in Scientology chasing gains which never progress and states which do not exist, until you finally wake up and decide to get on with your life by leaving.
38 months ago: LOL. I follow your reasoning, Shalashar Dekeres. The advanced areas are utterly unreal (to you). Hence, there is no reason to understand Book One Auditing. Or to take a first course for a modest donation.

Mr. Observer, a scam is where you give to someone, something of value. And get nothing in return. Scientology's Churches intend to better society by improving the life of individuals. Therefore, an individual donates for a course of study (or auditing), does that and is then free to quit or do more. Does the individual receive something of value in exchange for their donation? There is the question. And you've stated your opinion, that sounds uninformed. Have a nice day.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
38 months ago: I like how the cult sends itself bomb threats to "prove" to the indoctrinated that they are being persecuted.

If that sort of dishonesty is part of Scientology, it brings everything else under question. Also the false promise of Sooper Powerzz is clearly a fraud, because if such powers existed, we'd see evidence of them.

Instead, we see a bunch of semi-literate, illogical adherents using grade school attacks and hyperbole rather than reasoned debate. You might think that's valuable. I tend to disagree as to the value of having one's critical thinking skills diminished as demonstrated by the Scientology supporters posting here.
38 months ago: "LOL. I follow your reasoning, Shalashar Dekeres."

Oh I highly doubt that.

"The advanced areas are utterly unreal (to you). Hence, there is no reason to understand Book One Auditing. Or to take a first course for a modest donation."

As evidenced by this reply.

As for it being "unreal" to me. No, the old meme of whats true for you is true for you is a logical falacy. There are no OTs with the abilities that Hubbard promised, not one. Proof? That Anonymous continues to picket churches week in and week out. If even one OT existed they would have ceased to exist the first time that person postulated it so. If even one person who had attested to clear actually was, Scientology could prove it. They've had nearly 50 years and so far nada.

"Mr. Observer, a scam is where you give to someone, something of value. And get nothing in return."

Bingo!

"Scientology's Churches intend to better society by improving the life of individuals."

By forcing them to disconnect from their families, forcing them to have abortions in order to maintain good standing. By working children as young as 10 sixty hours a week and denying them an education. By imprisoning people into forced labour camps for as little as looking at Miscaivage the wrong way. By making doubt a criminal act.

Orwell's 1984 was NOT a how too guide on creating a society.

"Does the individual receive something of value in exchange for their donation?"

Does having your critical thinking skills demonstratably damaged constitute value for money?

"And you've stated your opinion, that sounds uninformed."

Hes a former Course Supervisor who's done all the hatting required for that post. His opinion of the reality of the CoS is coloured by the fact that he was treated inhumanely by Scientology, but no less true for that.
38 months ago: "LOL. I follow your reasoning, Shalashar Dekeres."

Oh I highly doubt that.

"The advanced areas are utterly unreal (to you). Hence, there is no reason to understand Book One Auditing. Or to take a first course for a modest donation."

As evidenced by this reply.

As for it being "unreal" to me. No, the old meme of whats true for you is true for you is a logical falacy. There are no OTs with the abilities that Hubbard promised, not one. Proof? That Anonymous continues to picket churches week in and week out. If even one OT existed they would have ceased to exist the first time that person postulated it so. If even one person who had attested to clear actually was, Scientology could prove it. They've had nearly 50 years and so far nada.

"Mr. Observer, a scam is where you give to someone, something of value. And get nothing in return."

Bingo!

"Scientology's Churches intend to better society by improving the life of individuals."

By forcing them to disconnect from their families, forcing them to have abortions in order to maintain good standing. By working children as young as 10 sixty hours a week and denying them an education. By imprisoning people into forced labour camps for as little as looking at Miscaivage the wrong way. By making doubt a criminal act.

Orwell's 1984 was NOT a how too guide on creating a society.

"Does the individual receive something of value in exchange for their donation?"

Does having your critical thinking skills demonstratably damaged constitute value for money?

"And you've stated your opinion, that sounds uninformed."

Hes a former Course Supervisor who's done all the hatting required for that post. His opinion of the reality of the CoS is coloured by the fact that he was treated inhumanely by Scientology, but no less true for that.
38 months ago: Sorry for the duplicate.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
38 months ago: lol @ modest donation.

You claim Scientology intend to better society by improving the life of individuals, when in reality Scientology intend to generate as much income as possible by making individuals believe Scientology can improve their lives by allowing them to reach states which have never been accomplished through Scientology. I won't deny the hypnosis of the TRs can have therapeutic effects and the regressive therapy you call auditing also can have therapeutic effects, of course exposing repressed emotions can be very positive when administered correctly, this is called common sense not Scientology, but even so it is not the answer to every problem a person experiences and the states of Clear and OT are nothing but myths. Have a nice day
38 months ago: Lol, I am not sure if i'm glad if i was the first person to say "have a nice day." I was sincere about it but then Terryeo turned it into a caustic catchphrase. DAMN YOU TERRYEO, turning good things into insincere caustic catchphrases of evil!!!
37 months ago: lol. You raise an interesting point, dangerranger. We all talk, and we all use the same words. But when you view it, you see sarcasm where I mean honesty, and I probably see sarcasm where you mean honesty.
37 months ago: I said it with no sarcasm.

Then you had to misinterpret it as sarcastic becuase i assume you think no one would wish you to have a "nice day"

You then had to go and use a nice pleasentry as a catchphrase of hurtfullness.

Im just saying that you turned something nice into something evil.
Moneen
Moneen
South Africa, Republic of
37 months ago: It can be interesting disagreeing with & being critical of Scientology for the simple reason that they don't like this.
It is a button of Scientology that is a very raw nerve.
In any religious & political context where these don't like anyone been in disagreement with & critical of them they are easily stimulated to respond or react.
Often they respond & react in a nasty way when obviously they are in control.
Otherwise they complaim about been made victims waiting hopefully for their day to come when they can be in control.
People who don't like disagreement with them or don't like criticism of them can be like dictators always presuming that they are right & good & who can oppose them are wrong, bad or evil.
The world has inherantly been dominated by such outdated types with their religions & politics.
it took a great deal of sacrifice to rid the world of them replacing them with democratic rights.
MikeMercer
MikeMercer
Glenn Dale, MD
37 months ago: It is hopeless not to be a scientologist because anyone who disagrees with scientology gets beaten!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvHpFtjNg_c


Remember that everyone!
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
34 months ago: Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, as long as it doesn't interfere with my right to be happy. I happen to be very comfortable in my own skin, and don't need anyone to come along and tell how unhappy I must be without their brand of happiness. You keep yours and I'll keep mine.
I don't know of a single worthwhile cause that requires me to try to convince someone they have a problem, just so I can help them with it. People like that have a need to be needed, and therefore are still sick.
Moneen
Moneen
South Africa, Republic of
34 months ago: I can understand Scientologists because I have been where they are at.
I once upon a time would have defended Scientology in every possible way.
It was because I had been identified with the words & how these are arranged in Scientology to keep their converts on the hook.
I never at such time felt the pain of the hook & merely took the bait.
Then one day I saw clearly how I disagreed with alot about Scientology & found truth of spirit through my own mind.
I decided I no longer had any need for Scientology but realized that they have a great need for people in their shops to increase their power base.
As a consumer I like everybody else have choices & rights to shop where I choose & to no longer shop where I don't wish to shop whether Scientology likes this or not.
The idea that it is hopeless to not be a Scientologist is another choice of words to catch more fish as there are plenty of fish in the sea but often Scientology acts like it is desperate for people in their shops.
Louanne
Louanne
Los Angeles, CA
33 months ago: Jack H Remington is a troll, not a scientologist. He utterly fails to trick a real Scientology member.

- L
33 months ago: With the massive weight of evidence of the crimes $cientology commits, it is beyond the pale that the $cilons still try to convince people otherwise.
The only good that these discussions are for, is to educate those who are considering joining the cult. And to those, Anonymous says NO!! Do not consider joining this bunch of loons. Google "Scientology", read all the info and then decide whether you want to lose your personality, your mind, your freedom and all your possessions. It's just not worth it.
33 months ago: "It is hopeless to not be a Scientologist". Jawellnofine!!

If any $cilon can tell me of any event where $cientology actually made a difference, which is published in a website, newspaper or other form of publication (which is NOT a $cilon publication), I will cease and desist from any further criticism of the cult.
Go for it Jack, Terryeo, Louanne and other $cilons, here is your chance to rid yourselves on at least one Anonymous.
33 months ago: Scientology scuppered the Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act, Provocateur, thus saving the USA from having a communist-style gulag. You can read about that in newspapers.

One Anonymous down.
33 months ago: Denying people decent up to date mental health care?

Yeah that was totally in the public's best interests...

Mark Tomles
Mark Tomles
FPO, AE
33 months ago: "Jack H Remington is a troll, not a scientologist. He utterly fails to trick a real Scientology member."

Wasn't this provocative statement posted in multiple threads? Isn't that part of the definition of a troll? (Kidding, Lou, I kid because I love!)

The funny thing is that the act wasn't actually defeated. It was passed in the 80's as Senate Bill 2973 after only 10 minutes of debate. In fact, multiple senators said, on record, that they just couldn't figure out how anyone could think that the bill oppressed any group.

However, opposition was successful before this time, and resulted in the illegal (as determined by the Alaskan Supreme Court) abolution of the land trust, which resulted in at least one lawsuit for the lack of mental health care in Alaska. The certain groups that pushed so hard to abolish this plan were winning, at the expense of the ill and suffering.

There's no reason one should have to expose themselves to care that violates their own beliefs, but denying others care because you feel you know what's best for them? That's a different thing all together.

Fortunately for Millions, Alaska does not have a comprehensive mental health program, due to the passage of this bill. Unfortunately, self-interest forced those same millions to, potentially, suffer while waiting.

Interesting note: It wasn't scientology that started the opposition to the bill, nor the group that led the successful letter-writing campaign. This is attributed to a small anti-communist women's group in southern California called the American Public Relations Forum (APRF), which was part of an anti-psychiatry group that stalled the passage of multiple related bills.

So, despite the best intentions of a few small groups, the people of Alaska now have affordable mental health care, which was an improvement over the private (and expensive) care offered previously.

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