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Is the Tea Party Dead or just Underground for 2012?

Posted 5 months ago|27 comments|415 views
Another NOPE to HOPE?
Written by
Has the GOP forgotten the Tea Party of 2008? It seems that the elitists in the GOP continue to consider the Tea Party as just a controllable fringe group of the Republican Party.

The 2012 elections will be the deciding factor which will either send the Tea Party to the dust bin of history or into the full control of the GOP.

Will the Tea Party show up in 2012 and make another change en masse to the nations political structure? Will history repeat and show a Tea Party landslide in local, state and federal election results?

Most certainly the answer is yes. However, it might not be from the top down. The Tea Party is working precincts, city, county and state wide to elect more Tea Party conservatives to office. The change needed is a fully conservative House and Senate. The White House win would be icing on the cake.

We will let you send all of your money to the Obama selection fund while we work locally to elect a unstoppable House and Senate.

Then the Tea Party plan will be to send all of the laws from Congress to the President for approval over and over until he submits.

It will be fun watching a President veto bill after bill that the American people want to pass. You think Obama has a few more grey hairs right now?

Wait until Obama has to deal with a possible super majority in both the House and the Senate.
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COMMENTS
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: I love your optimism, even though I don't share it. I think most people are too wishy washy to focus on a goal for that long. They cave to ridicule. They change their minds. Mostly it's just the fringe on either side that are unwavering in their resolution.

A lot will happen in the next year, the economy is going to improve due to natural market corrections, unemployment will go down, and the Left will be there taking credit that they don't deserve.

I know the TEA Party isn't dead, in fact it is stronger than ever. But I think it will be another split decision, so lawmakers can continue to facelock (pro wrestling term, as fake as the matches in Congress) each other, while the banks continue to haul off our national treasure.
5 months ago: Thanks Cypress.

I was figuring if Obama is reelected, that the republic itself is doomed to the trash bin.

I never thought beyond that.

Alas.

thanks... i guess
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
5 months ago: The Tea Party started with actual populist anger mainly at Obama's election. Then the anger of those poor losers were co-opted by the Koch Brothers and the Republicans to do the will of the 1%.

The Tea Party had it's 15 minutes of fame in the 2010 elections. Then when the people saw how counterproductive the Tea Party nuts were once they got in office their support disappeared.

They elected the Tea Party folk because they promised jobs, then they refused to do anything about that, instead concentrating on taking away people's rights. They showed they were willing to destroy the country with the debt ceiling debacle.

Even in Tea Party districts only 20% agreed with the Tea Party and favorable ratings went down 14 points since March. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/us/pol...

Clearly the Tea Party is going down the tubes while the 99% are ascendent. Come election time the Occupy movement will be at it's strongest while the Tea Party will be long forgotten. But first they will have dragged the Republican party down to defeat because of their intransigence and unwillingness to compromise.

Thanks Tea Party!
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: Nah, the occupy movement has already fizzled, like it or not. The party rock shuffle guys have gone in for the winter, and their short attention spans will have them scrambling for the next iphone upgrade before you know it.

There is no such thing as the 99%.
5 months ago: You got that correct. Most folks in the middle class do not relate to the so-called Occupiers. They are more or less a nuisance and do not represent the opinions, and views or even use the tactics that the majority would use or even support.

To claim 99% them to claim allegiance or for any group to claim to represent 99% of any people is a fabrication and lie shoved right into their faces.

Many wish the Tea Party would go away, but it will not. While the Occupy folks continue to look for government handouts, this particular party with strengthen and keep the Republicans on their toes and the hardcore Left-wingers up at night in cold sweats.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: I don't think they are dead at all. I also don't know where this idea that they "swept through Congress" is coming from. They have 51 members total in Congress. All of them ran as Republicans. I'm not convinced that they can run on their own (although considering how much on average each member of the Tea Party Caucus gets from the Oil Industry (about $25,000 each) they may have a shot.). The problem they face is the fact that it is much easier to run a campaign during the Nomination elections. The Tea Party only has to appeal to Republicans (this is true for the far left Democrats too) during this time. BUT, you cannot get elected by appealing to Republicans only. They need to have the moderates vote for them. To do this they have to find a way to sound like reasonable candidates, this makes it very difficult to be far left or right, the Tea Party struggles with finding this identity at a national level. On a smaller scale they will likely have a good year. Local and State elections are easier to run based on a specific set of values without bending at all. The Tea Party will likely continue to grow at the state and local levels but at the same time the best days have passed for them on a national level.
5 months ago: PH - I can agree what some of what you have shared here.

Politically I fall somewhere between Petey Green and Sean Hannity. That being said, I personally like the Tea Party option.

I agree that the Tea Party will need the support of moderates. Absolutely. But they can court moderates but not sell out the platform. They will still have to rid themselves of some of the unfortunate stigma an inane and calloused few has foisted upon the image of the overall party early on. Further in the rear view mirror the better.

The party must grow at the state and local (grass roots) levels and that is going to take time, persistence, consistency and a message of appeal to the masses of folks who are disillusioned with both the Dems and the Repubs.

They can, and probably will do this in time. I firmly believe they are a necessary dimension to American politics and the more short-sighted folks chime in against them, the more they have my support and encouragement.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: The presence of more parties in America is a necessary thing. Unfortunately it is also highly unlikely that we will get one or more new parties (I wrote a post on this site about this very topic). The Tea Party is in a unique position, in my opinion they would be take more seriously if they would actually separate from the Republicans, but those of them who have dreams of being in/staying in Washington DC need the money that the Republican party grants them. On a national stage they really have no hope outside of the few districts which they already have claimed in for the House of Representatives and a few select Senators. Take a look at this image: http://tinyurl.com/824ea82 This is the problem the Tea Party faces in terms of winning national based elections.

As far as a local and state level party, they have a totally different problem to deal with. The Tea Party runs more or less as the Constitution party (I will address this shortly). The majority of their claims/campaign points/platform are based on their perceived issues with the Federal Government. Ask yourself "Do I really care/do I really think that a State Senator/State Representative/Mayor/Town Board Member can do ANYTHING about the size/scope of the Federal Government?" More importantly, what candidate running for a local or state level office is going to campaign on Federal Issues? The Tea Party is a Federal/National level party, that has basically no way to achieve success on a large scale with or without the Republican party (This is not unique to the Tea Party, it is also true of the Green, Libertarian, Constitution, etc. etc.).

On a national level, The RNC doesn't care much for the Tea Party. They have tried to allow them to self destruct by selecting unelectable/undesirable candidates. Because the Tea Party is reliant on the RNC for funding they are handcuffed to candidates that are not going to be able to win. Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Herman Cain, Tim Pawlenty...these people cannot win an election. The Tea Party needs people who are articulate and have a deep enough understanding of the Constitution to be able to stand up to the questions that will be asked of them. They have yet to find this candidate. Ron Paul, who knows more about the exact wording of the Constitution than pretty much anyone would be the candidate that could justify the direct interpretation of it in such a way that people could understand it. Unfortunately for him, he also refuses to adopt a national level campaign that is anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-drugs and pro-Christianity (he says, and I agree, that these are state level issues according to the Constitution).

Being disillusioned with Democrats and Republicans is a good thing, but trying to convince people that to fix this they should turn to more Republicans, oops I mean Tea Party...oh wait...(see the problem here???)
5 months ago: Thanks for the input guys...

Just so you know where I stand...

I would vote for a Constitutional Conservative Blue Dog Democrat before voting for a Status Quo Liberal Republican in name only.

Those days are long gone.

We sent many home last cycle and still the elite GOP does not get the message.

2012 might be our last best hope to return the party to being one that serves the people by following the Constitution as written.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: "We sent many home last cycle and still the elite GOP does not get the message."

Exactly, however, as I said in my post above, unless they separate from the Republican Party they have no chance of winning large amounts of ground in the future. The RNC controls the money...the "elite" Republicans will be protected at all costs (the elite politicians in both parties are the ones who bring in the money). Greed driven political systems have a history of these same issues.

I hope there are some candidates that would follow the Constitution as written, I have not seen more than 1 in the last 12 years that actually knows what the Constitution ACTUALLY says, not an interpretation based on moralistic viewpoints.
5 months ago: PH. Why would we need to seperate from the Republican Party? It is the Republican Party that has seperated from its core beliefs and needs to be taken back by the people. Maybe just maybe if we can get enough Constitutional Conservative skin in the game the backroom, cigar smoking, golfing, lunch and dinner meal tickets, personal drivers and personal trips on the taxpayer dime, might turn into a future pink slip without unemployment benifits.

You want to clean it up in a hurry? Cut off their non-Regular person pensions/medical/insider trading/health club/vehicle allowance/postal allowance/travel allowance/per diems and all additional perks a common Joe on the street does not receive from the government.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: That would certainly work too. The larger point I am making is that the Tea Party and the Republican Party cannot exist as one. I simply suggested the Tea Party separating because it is the only way that the context of the word Republican can be separated from what it has become and what the Tea Party represents.

The pay scale and benefits of being a senator/representative in the Federal Government (and at the state level for those that operate a professional legislature/government such as Texas, Illinois, New York, Florida, Arizona etc) is absolutely ridiculous. One of the biggest pitfalls of the Constitution is that it allows the elected officials to control their own pay and benefits.
5 months ago: Are you saying that you would be a Tea Party member if they lost the tag of being Republican? How about I pose this question to you. Would you be a Republican if the party was controlled by Tea Party Constitutional values?

Moving on to the next paragraph...

The professional Texas legislature has a ridiculous pay scale? Please provide the information you rely on while making that statement.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: I would never "be a" Tea Party Member, or a Republican, or a Democrat. I would support whichever candidate supports and represents the most knowledge about the Constitution. The Tea Party at this time is controlled by the Republican party and therefore cannot truly represent the Constitution effectively.

Texas legislatures are paid on avg during their biennial terms with allowances $34,000. This is far less than Illinois or Ohio or California for example, but is still a lot more than Nevada ($137/day during session) for example. Professional legislatures have a direct correlation to larger government and bigger government spending.
5 months ago: Right....I have a feeling your a Democrat that think they are Independant. AnyHoo, It would be appreciated by the dumbards. Like me that can't seem to figure out big words, if you would dismount from your high horse. I like big words but they have a time and a place. This site is neither. You can't seem to grasp the fact that people just don't have time to read a freaking book when they come to RR.

"Texas legislatures are paid on avg during their biennial terms with allowances $34,000."

WTF? Next time just say...

Texas pays 17,000 per year. That sounds like they get those really big bucks for being professional politicians.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago:
2011 Compensation Table


Texas

$7,200/year

Additional Per Diem
$150/day (U)nvounchered set by Ethics Commission.

Nevada

$137.90/day maximum of 60 days of session for holdover Senators, $146.29/day for all other legislators.

Additional Per Diem
Federal rate for Capitol area (U). Legislators who live more than 50 miles from the capitol, if require lodging, will be paid Hud single-room rate for Carson City area for each month of session.

Illinois

$67,836/year

Additional Per Diem
$132/per session day

http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=2...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: For Texas, that works out to $99.31 per day regular pay, and $150.00/day per diem, for a total of $249.31/day, or $36,149.95 per year. Average session is 145 days every other year.

Nevada, which meets for 120 regular session days every other year, it would be $16,548.00/year regular salary, plus $80.00/day, or $9600/year per diem. Total Cost- $26,148.00/year

Illinois: Meets for about 140 regular session days. $67,836.00/year plus $18,480 Per Diem = $86,316/year
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: Why should I bother answering you if you are going to put words in my mouth?

I have never voted for a democrat in an election for a position in the Federal Government. I have voted locally and in my state for Republicans, Democrats and Independents.

I wasn't using a big word. That is how my research described the texas legislature. As OOTB pointed out...Texan legislators make 36000/year
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: I actually would rather a complete split between the Republicans and the TEA Party. That would give an idea of the true ranks, and would put the politicians that ran on a TEA Party platform on the spot. I also believe the TEA Party would pick up some fiscally responsible Democrats that embrace Constitutional government.

It would weed out the imposters that are running as TEA Party conservatives.

5 months ago: Does that include Libertarians that run as shadow Republicans?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: Yes, I would think so. And also the Progressive Party and Communists that are hiding in the ranks of the Democrat Party.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: The conception of a 3rd party would be great, it's also pretty close to impossible.
5 months ago: It's only impossible for those who think that it is.

At one time the concept of having a black man as the president was seen as an impossibility as well. With enough time and determination, a true muti-party system is possbible.
5 months ago: Hear, hear... Seems like the GOP was founded in 1854 with their first President elected after a short 6 years... The elite GOP must have forgotten that fact...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: We are talking about relevant parties, right? There are a couple dozen political parties, including the Marijuana Party, the Libertarian Party, The Green Party, and on and on. Why do they get no political coverage? Because the media wants them to remain irrelevant. Why does the media want this? Because they don't want the real voices of America being heard. And why is that? Because the media, along with the two major parties, is controlled by people who would like to take everything America has.
5 months ago: Correct. Relevant parties.

Some of those you mention Box, hardly qualify as parties at all and have a snowball's chance of ever having any significant impact.

The situation at present is not amicable to competition. It may take serious time, but something has to be done and those with real vision and conviction can get it done.

In the long run though, politics and human government are not the ultimate answer to humankind's dilemma. However, a better and more honest system of government is what we should all strive for.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
5 months ago: I wrote a post on 3rd parties in America. It's listed on my profile page. I did research on 3rd party politics in graduate school. Just have a look at it, I think it would add a lot to this conversation.

I don't want to re-post the whole thing here, but the summary is that a 3rd party cannot have success in a country like America. It would require a change to several systems that simply will never occur. First we would have to completely get rid of the Electoral College AND we would have to move away from winner takes all towards a proportional representation system.

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