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Is religion a force for good?

Posted 28 months ago|29 comments|584 views
Written by
DeanFox
England
Is religion a force for good?

The knee jerk reaction from most people who hold to a religious belief is "yes, of course it is." Then when you point out that religion is used to motivate people to commit suicide bombings they will likely concede that this isn't always the case.

In one instance though someone said religion is always a force for good because the intentions are always good, even those of a suicide bomber. My reply was that "the path to hell is paved with good intentions".

However the question got me thinking, is religion actually a force for anything?

There are many definitions for religion around, one is:

"A collection of practices, based on beliefs and teachings that are highly valued or sacred"

My own take is that religion is the beliefs and teachings that are highly valued or sacred. The practices are seperate.

There are many religions and many churches.

I believe that while humans always have free will that it is the church and the way they encourage members to act that determines whether or not the church becomes a force for good or bad and this is regardless of the intentions of the church leaders of the individuals within the church.

Take Islam. The teachings of Islam include concepts of peace, love and many other upstanding moral values and yet certain extremist sects, churches if you will, manage to use it to "radicalise" people and turn them in to suicide bombers. Islam as a religion is neither a force for good nor evil rather it is how the church teaches it that determines the acts of the attendees.

Thoughts?
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28 months ago: Religion is kind of like money.

The same money that can be used to feed your family can be spent on dope or a prostitute (or dope and a prostitute).

Good religion will have a moral barometer that is consistent with giving life, not bringing death. The negative should be an anomaly, not the norm.

Angels of light claim to speak in the name of a deity or deities, yet their motivation and their purpose is far from righteousness.

Matthew 7:15-21
15 “Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.” 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."

I personally believe that God is committed to caring for the powerless, defenseless and oppressed, including the poor, the alien, the fatherless and the widow. Since the needs of such people are on God's heart, he expects that same heart to be in us.

Any so-called religion that does not express a heart of love or compassion to all ain't worth crossing the street to get to.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: I do not fault your arguments scotmanster. The question is though is it religion that motivates a man to don the suicide vest and go out and blow himself up or is it the specific teachers of the religion?

My point is that regardless of the justifications, whys and wherefores the religion of Islam itself is not a force causing good or evil. Rather it is a tool or catalyst to enable others to motivate others to commit acts they may not other wise commit, like the laying down of their life.

By the same reason Islam is not a force for good or evil nor is any other religion.

Churches on the other hand, being organisations based around a religion can be forces for either good or bad regardless of the religion, which depends on the leaders of the church and what they encourage their followers to do.

There is also no connection with the intentions of the followers with respect to whether the church is a force for good or not; followers will likely believing they are doing good even when they are not. (The path to hell is paved with good intentions).
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: Heuy Newton: "Any so-called religion that does not express a heart of love or compassion to all ain't worth crossing the street to get to."

Totally agree, although most churches will proclaim love, compassion, tolerance and family values as core to their beliefs if asked, even those whose practices beg to differ.

Then again some churches who are perhaps more "spare the rod and spoil the child" shall we say may not be a force for bad just because they are less compassionate.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: Scotmanster: "I don't think it is the religion that is wrong. Islam is not wrong. I think it is the people that use that religion to promote Islamic Extremism."

Exactly what I am trying to say in my fumbling way. :-)

I also agree that if there were no religion something else would likely take its place and that religion, just happens, to be used as a crutch.

I like the idea of separate state and religion.

While I agree with religious freedom I am wary of religion being "protected" from the state because there are dangers in protecting some groups above others. I believe all groups deserve equal protection from the state as do individuals.

I don't think the founding fathers were thinking they wanted to protect religion from scrutiny, rather they wanted to ensure the people had the freedom to believe what they wanted.

As organisations though churches should not be afforded any more protection than say a corporation and the state should not have to **** foot around churches when it comes to investigating allegations. Likewise I don't think churches should automatically get religious status. We have religious freedom in the UK and yet not all groups professing themselves to be a religion are automatically granted charitable and tax free status; there is a requirement to demonstrate a benefit to others of a charitable nature before one can achieve this.

An organisation with tax free status is being subsidized massively by the people, regardless of whether they subscribe to the organisation's goals or beliefs or not. It's only reasonable then that there should be control over which organisations are afforded this.
28 months ago: I actually got reprimmanded once by a pastor when I made the statement "the last thing I ever want to be is religious and I don't play church." He thought it might offend others to hear me say such a thing.

That told me a lot. It told me to find a REAL church to worship in and leave their "church is a social club" mentality behind.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
28 months ago: I don't look at any religion as bad or good, or any cult as bad or good. But where they differ is in their policies written today by church staff towards their fellow man.

A religion is a fictitious entity,has no life of its own. The members can be bad and they in turn will make the religion look bad to others.

So look at what they (MAJORITY)collectively do to determine if it is a force for good or bad.

There is no such thing as a corporate or ficticious entity being evil. The evil comes from the men and women who control the church or religion.

Don't blame the religion for the actions of a few.

That is wrong way thinking, just as it IS when neurotics blame the GUN as the source of all evil.

There is always a true source of evil and it comes from the heart of evil men and women.

THE RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
28 months ago: Islam got off on the wrong path long ago.
28 months ago: Religion, is it good or bad? Religion as it was originally conceived as a local, group (read clan, tribe, community, etc.) function that was preformed, celebrated or otherwise recognized as something everyone in the group participated in for the good of the group, was and is a good thing. Everyone is of one mind and goal, or very near so and if there are any who have different ideas, they can discuss them as a group and work out their differences as survival of the group is paramount to survival of the individual.

It is when religion is used as justification for doing something to another group or even a single individual that it becomes a bad thing.

Islam gets a bad reputation because the extremist are constantly using it as the scapegoat for what they do to other people. The extremists are not the true representatives of Islam’s teachings but they are the most vocal and as I’ve said before, until the rest of the believers rise up and stop the extremists, Islam will continue to be considered a bad religion, or maybe better said; Islam will continue to be considered a religion that teaches bad things.

Christiainty has also had its bad moments and in some ways, still has a negative effect on some populations and, at its worst, nations.

If you consider religion just as a belief in a way of life that is benevolent, does not teach harm to others, does not condone immoral acts and allows free will, then religion is a force for good. Otherwise, it should be outlawed.
28 months ago: I know I am going to shock some people on here when I say that for the most part religion is a joke.

While I appreciate the fact that it does instill a sort of "moral code" in a society, it is riddled with way to make you feel guilty and worthless when you don't live up...

I deal with god on my terms...
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: Sixholdens. I agree with your comments entirely, my question is a bit deeper though. Is religion in as of itself a force for good or bad?

Most, such as yourself concur that religion can be good or bad. Indeed this was my thoughts until I started thinking a bit more about it My take is now that religion is neither.

Having looked at religion I see that very few religions are inherently bad because of what the "sacred" texts behind them say. People it seems tend not to believe in something they PERCEIVE as bad.

The Koran contains core values of peace, charity, good will etc. just as the Bible does. The same is true of the Torah. When you look at any of the damaging acts and practices of the various sects based on these texts you sometimes wonder if you perhaps missed something.

It would seem that regardless of what the texts say it is the interpretation by the church that matters as to whether the church is a force for good or bad.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: I am currently of the opinion that religion is a tool or catalyst.

Religion I see as beliefs and teachings that are highly valued or sacred.

How the tool is wielded or what reaction is facilitated by the catalyst depends upon the church. The church being the organisation built upon the religion.

The organisation has leaders who encourage a particular understanding of the texts and teachings. Ergo, the church as an organisation driven by leaders and subscribed to by followers is "the force" not the actual religion. And churches can be good or bad.

Hence why the same religion, texts and teachings, can spawn good and bad churches. No doubt why the same religion can have many splinter groups who add to or amend the texts and teachings according to their interpretation.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: I've sparked this debate off in a variety of theological forums, ones that are specific to a religion and ones that are interface.

I must thank Terryeo, who believes me to be quite insane, for raising this question (is religion a force for good?). It's something I'd not thought very hard about before and would have previously answered religion can be good or bad.

Would a world without religion be a better place? (another rave perhaps?) I don't think so, as someone on a Latter Day Saints forum rightly pointed out something else would take its place.

Conversely does religion make the world a better place? (a 3rd perhaps) again I don't think so. Without religion humans would still have their own views and form groups around those views. There is unlikely to ever be an absolute consensus among humans, life would get very boring I would imagine if there was.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: RedStateguy: "Islam got off on the wrong path long ago."

There are several churches based on Islamic sacred texts and teachings. Regardless of whether you believe what they believe in terms of being good or bad some churches are good others are bad based on the acts they encourage people to commit in the name of their religion.

Of course all those who practice Islam may get a shock when they arrive and Jesus says. "Guys, I was not a Muslim and I was the son of God not just a mere prophet, you've offended me deeply so it's fire and brimstone for you and damn your good deeds."

Of course most Christians may be shocked to find the Jehovah's Witnesses were right and sadly they've taken up all the slots so it's off to the bad place for them too.

The Catholics may be upset by the lack of Harps and clouds and being forced to attend daily Evangelical raves or, perhaps worse, the opposite. "Yes OK you got it mostly right you just worshipped me all wrong."

No one knows for sure, though I dare say many would profess to, but somehow I don't think your fate in the afterlife, if their is one, will be based entirely on which church you attended or religion you followed so much as what you actually did.

I don't see why people like Harshaw should receive eternal damnation simply for dealing with God in his own way.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: Heuy Newton: "That told me a lot. It told me to find a REAL church to worship in and leave their "church is a social club" mentality behind."

Interesting. While living in Houston Texas I was told that the best way to socialise and the only way to network was to attend a church. I also saw an advert for a church on TV that proclaimed their social and networking possibilities as a reason to join. I even had a girl approach me at a bus stop to ask me if I'd like to attend her church; those Texas girls are quite forward aren't they?

My experience in Colorado Springs was totally different however, church was rarely mentioned.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: THE RONBOT HUNTER: "There is no such thing as a corporate or ficticious entity being evil. The evil comes from the men and women who control the church or religion."

Yep, totally agree.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: Harshaw: "I know I am going to shock some people on here when I say that for the most part religion is a joke.

While I appreciate the fact that it does instill a sort of "moral code" in a society, it is riddled with way to make you feel guilty and worthless when you don't live up..."

Yes, it is unfortunate that the practices of many churches seem to be based on the "put down" rather than the more positive.

Many churches play on guilt to secure donations to fund their worthy activities. I'm not sure if this on its own makes the church as a whole bad but it is certainly a practice I find abhorrent.

Benny Hinn bugs me with his faith healing. He often tells his congregation that while they may be healed today if they think bad thoughts or watch bad things on TV God will take the healing away. Good way to secure repeat business and mitigate the possibility people realise they only felt better because of the environment they were in.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
28 months ago: THE WAY TO FIND OUT IF THE CULT OR RELIGION IS A BASIS FOR GOOD OR BAD, IS TO LOOK AT HOW IT TREATS ITS OWN PEOPLE.

DON'T LOOK AT WHAT SOME OF ITS MEMBERS DO AS THE REAL GUIDE.

Use Some Logic To Locate If Your Religion or Cult Is Bad Or Good.

Look at what it does to its own, and from that you will know its true soul.
Does it break families apart?
Does it mistreat its younger members?
Does it pay its staff starvation wages?
Does it have guards to keep others out and its members in?
Does it have bias and racism against minorities in and out of the cult or religion?
Does it beat, hurt, kill, sue, slander and stalk its own members or ex-members?
Did its founder, creator or head priest declare himself a God or Saint?

Does its members look upon the founder, creator or inventor of the group, cult or religion, as a God or a Saint, but yet the world rejects him as a scam.
There are many other indicators to use to find evil intentions to the world.

The behavior of the cult or religion to its own members, is your best guide to find good or bad within that religion.

Always look to the people in control to decide if religion is a basis for good or evil.

THE RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: To RONBOT HUNTER - I think perhaps the point is that when determining the merits of a church you can ignore what they proclaim to believe and their scriptures and concentrate on what they actually do.

All your questions are valid although the last 2 are more subjective and the answer would bear little relationship to the acts the church are likely to commit.

I know where you're coming from but being more general those questions are neither here nor there. Basically does it cause more harm than good or is there a preponderance of harm caused by the church is a good general question.
28 months ago: Hello.

Don't get me wrong, there is a social aspect to attending church or other "religious" institutions. It's a great place to meet new people and fellowship. The problem comes in when the organization becomes a "bless me club."

When the congregants ignore the needs of the people around them, when the sermons become candy coated tripe that challenges no one, and when the leadership accepts spiritual mediocrity something is terribly wrong. I think that is disgusting and and stinks in the nostrils of God.

If we do not have a servant's spirit and look to help others in need we are just copying the world's narcissism and self-centeredness.

I am pretty much what could be called a Christian militant. I believe that the church should be an avenue where the congregants are ministered to and built up so that they can go out and be of service to others.

Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, ministering to and loving the outcasts. Setting high standards for Marriage and being a relevant, accepting and dynamic role models for our children and the youth should be the order of the day.

A church that does not impact it's community is a waste of real estate.

As far as dealing with God on my own terms, I found out a long time ago that that does not work. The Almighty has standards that are way above those of mankind.

If we don't approach with a contrite heart and a humility that is born out of the fact that forgiveness has been provided for us, I believe we err greatly and are deserving of judgement
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
28 months ago: Scotmanster: agree with everything you say. Sad thing is the response to the fear (preemptive detention et al) serves to reinforce the Islam extremism.

Before 9/11 extremist Islamic groups had a recruitment problem, they were on a holy war but few could see it. Since 9/11 there is a war on "Terrorism" (let's not forget one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter), which is effectively a war on extremists and something the extremists can point to and say look it is a war it says so on TV.
28 months ago: If more prominent Muslims were more vocally outraged behind the things the extremists do, there may be a change in the collective atmosphere.

There is a lot of anti-Muslim mania due to the deliberate and unrepentant targeting of civilians by individuals who claim to be Muslim. Very easy for ill will to develop in that environment.

How do you defend against a rocket launcher that is stationed in a residential neighborhood?

If the Muslims who are practicing "Islam is a force of good" would openly, loudly, and consistently condemn acts like these, maybe things would change.

BTW - A Mosque or Temple that does not change the neighborhood for the better needs to be made into a a library a food market, or a Starbucks.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
28 months ago: To DeanFox, and separately to scotmanster, Huey Newton

DeanFox, I am referring to the fact that the church staff of a religion may not follow its holy scriptures or in the case of one cult, that it does follow its own policy letters to hurt its own people.

That this cult does look upon its creator as a GOD. Which is an insanity within this cult.

The non-use of the holy scriptures or evil use of policy letters that are meant to hurt, harm and kill is the indicators I am pointing out for you to look for.

That will give you more proof of its true indicator for good or evil.

Because as I see it, the church is a fictitious entity only alive in the hearts and minds of mankind. Alone it is dead even when only in print.

The scotmanster and Huey Newton are correct in the way that they think. I totally agree with them.

But what people should do is get away from targeting Islam, if they do not really know it on a first hand basis. The individuals creating problems believe they are fighting for their freedom. They are not their religion in any way. Their religion is not to blame.

The Federal Government of the USA is NOT blameless and has caused many countries to hate and mistrust it. We have psychotics in our government just as deadly to us as these so called terrorists.

As people here and on the web know, I only target the Cult of Scientology, because I have more than 18 years of firsthand knowledge of its true intent for evil.

I know how evil it is and I will not condemn any other religion or cult for the actions of a few.

This is to me an insanity of wrong target thinking in our nation, created by our media that is controlled by the very same people that have started all the wars in our lifetime.

P.S. have you noticed that the Ronbots in this website have very little to say to you about this topic. Think about why they avoid it?

THE RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

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