John Dewey IV, Professor of Education at Teachers College, with more than 25 years of experience, speaks eloquently for his profession. Interview conducted by John Q. Public.
JQP: Everyone is wondering what's wrong with the public schools?
Dewey IV: Nothing at all. Everything is right. As right as things could be given the draconian budget cuts.
JQP: What are they trying to achieve there?
Dewey IV: Achieve is too strong. We don't believe in achievement. We want children to be comfortable with themselves.
JQP: How do you arrange that?
Dewey IV: We give them positive reinforcement. We build their self-esteem by praising the efforts they make.
JQP: What if they don't make any efforts?
Dewey IV: Try not to miss the point. There is always something to praise.
JQP: What about reading, writing and arithmetic?
Dewey IV: These traditional activities are vastly overrated. Arithmetic, in the age of calculators and computers, is nearly obsolete.
JQP: Suppose somebody is in the woods and he needs to work out a problem?
Dewey IV: I hardly think we would want to design curriculum around an atypical situation. Children usually have their phones. You can waste so much time on antiquated pen-and-pencil techniques. It's like an American learning British currency and how many pence are in a pound. You do not need to know.
JQP: What about reading?
Dewey IV: We have to be suspicious of one-size-fits-all approaches. Perhaps Ann, who's going to college, needs to read. Perhaps Arnold, working in a factory, does not. We want a future where learning to read is no more valuable a skill than learning to cook or sew.
JQP: Seems to me everyone needs to read.
Dewy II. Not at all. Professor Stanley Hall, exactly 100 years ago, expressed the matter so well: "The knowledge which illiterates acquire is probably a much larger proportion of it practical. Moreover, they escape much eyestrain and mental excitement, and, other things being equal, are probably more active and less sedentary. It is possible, despite the stigma our bepedagogued age puts upon this disability, for those who are under it not only to lead a useful, happy, virtuous life, but to be really well educated in many other ways." See?
JQP: Well, if they don't learn math or reading, what do they do all day?
Dewey IV: Their days are rich and varied, full of developmentally appropriate activities. We build on prior knowledge, and we cater to diverse learning styles. Children, following the precepts of constructivism, invent their own new knowledge. Schools are so much more textured and interesting than the dull ones that you know about.
JQP: But what are they actually learning? What knowledge?
Dewey IV: Again, you overvalue practices that were appropriate for an elitist, aristocratic society. That society fortunately is gone now. What do we want for the great mass of children? We want them to work together, to be comfortable with each other as they are with themselves. Could we reach this goal if we allow differences to creep in?
JQP: Differences? You mean, one can count to 100 and one can count only to 50?
Dewey IV: Yes, that's an example.
JQP: So nobody can count to 100? Which means we'll always be settling for the lowest common denominator.
Dewey IV: Excuse me. If it's the common denominator, it's not the lowest common denominator, by definition. Ordinary--that's whatever most people can reasonably do. Which is quite acceptable.
JQP: I'm still not clear on whether these children know anything? Isn't there any basic knowledge that children should know? How about the names of the oceans?
Dewey IV: Why would our children need to know that? Where is the higher-order thinking?
JQP: There are only three oceans. Seems like a simple matter to learn those names.
Dewey IV: Facts are vastly overrated. You can look them up. That's why we have the Internet.
JQP: What about 4 x 6?
Dewey IV: Again, we have calculators and Google.
JQP: So what do you teach instead?
Dewey IV: Critical thinking, collaboration, digital technology. There is so much to teach and we have entered a new world where every child must have 21st-century skills. In particular, they must be able to work as members of a team.
JQP: Didn't people always work as members of teams?
Dewey IV: Perhaps people were in groups. The important thing is that they have the same goal. They work together to reach a common goal.
JQP: Can you give me an example?
Dewey IV: Well, there are thousands. Suppose you want to know that the steps in the school building are in compliance with the fire code. That's the real world. The children work together to find what the laws are and what the measurements on the steps are.
JQP: Seriously? Six kids are going to sit on the dirty steps measuring them?
Dewey IV: They are involved in the nuts and bolts of a real world dilemma. Is the school in compliance with city and state law? It teaches critical thinking.
JQP: What is that exactly?
Dewey IV: That's when you think critically.
JQP: Can you give me another example?
Dewey IV: We had students working on the most interesting project. Compare Chinese society in the second century to Roman society in the second century.
JQP: That sounds impressive; but do the children know enough to do that in any realistic sense?
Dewey IV: You are a negative person. You wish to disparage the efforts of the children. Our sensibility is entirely different. We want to praise every effort made by them. Historical details are hardly germane.
JQP: But then you have a situation where they might be learning nothing and accomplishing nothing, but have a very high opinion of themselves.
Dewey IV: In a way that is our goal. The low level of accomplishment is a non-issue. As I told you specifically, achievement is an outmoded concept.
JQP: Roughly speaking, children are in school about 1000 hours each year. You would think that in all that time they could learn anything. But you're telling me that they learn a few, what, politically correct opinions?
Dewey IV: Well, those are the important ones. If the child is to be a good citizen, he must embrace the proper attitudes.
JQP: Who's to say what they are?
Dewey IV: That's the primary job of the school administrators. Which is why these are the most important public servants we have.
JQP: Let me try this again. Is there anything that children -- every one of them -- should know?
Dewey IV: How to avail themselves of appropriate government services.
JQP: You mean welfare? Is that a joke?
Dewey IV: I'm an educator. I don't joke.
JQP: Big Business and the military constantly complain about the poor quality of our high school graduates.
Dewey IV: Business and the military? They're quite obsolete. We haven't listened to them in years.
JQP: Any advice to parents?
Dewey IV: Pay your taxes and try not to interfere.
JQP: Meaning what??
Dewey IV: Parents always imagine they should meddle in the education of their children. What do parents know about real education?
JQP: You seem like such a quack to me.
Dewey IV: It seems your own education was defective. You'd be much happier if you were re-educated.
(For more on the Dewey clan, see "25: Phooey on John Dewey" on
Improve-Education.org.)
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