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I.O.U.S.A. Solutions on CNN

Posted 25 months ago|23 comments|2,019 views
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Altruist
Eugene, OR
There was a great documentary on television today about the National Debt.

The program will be repeated tomorrow April 11, 3:00-5:00 p.m. EST on CNN

This is a short version of the original video that was made several years ago when the National Debt was "only $8 trillion" The new program has been updated to illustrate the current nearly $13 trillion debt. See the 30 minute old version at:
http://www.pgpf.org/newsroom/press/IOUSA...

The program has a huge panel of noted economists that discuss the problem and the solutions.

I had some problems with some of their figures and wonder if the stats were taken from the original outdated video. For example they say that interest on the National Debt was only something like $221 billion , but in 2008 interest was $451 billion and that was before the trillions of stimulus and bailout money was borrowed.

The problem of course is that the American people are spoiled. They refuse to cut any spending on any entitlement programs. They think earmarks are terrible unless it is their congressman bringing home the bacon, and they refuse to even discuss any taxes. Several of the panelists stated that Health Care and Medicare spending was the greatest threat to the future debt, yet even the Republicans screamed bloody murder when modest medicare cuts were discussed.

They also discussed military spending and how no one wants to threaten America's security even though we spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined.

Today the budget is about equally divided with Military being about 1/4th, Health Care about 1/4th, the interest on the National debt about 1/4th, and everything else combined about 1/4th. If China decides to invest in something more profitable than our debt (which they are thinking about doing) we will have to increase the interest on our T bills which are now at record lows. The interest on the debt may be as much as 40% of the budget in 12 years.

http://www.federalbudget.com/

The program talks about the need to cut the budget and government programs, but military spending accounts for about 65% of discretionary spending and few are talking about cutting that. Most of the rest of government spending is already stressed. Schools are shutting down, bridges need to be replaced for earthquake safety and our water sewer and other infrastructure is crumbling. Where are the cuts going to come from? Benefits of entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, will have to be gradually reduced while the revenues are increased.

This year's huge deficit was necessary to stave off another depression and paying it off may seem insurmountable but it is smaller than the debt after WWII and the Great Depression as a percentage of GDP. But then people were willing to sacrifice.

In my opinion there are several factors that caused the debt. Ronald Reagan is guilty of starting the recent trend in growing the debt with his tax cuts and military spending, but he is even more responsible for the debt because of his trickle down economic theory and the myth that cutting taxes raises revenue. Another big part of the problem is that 172 Congressmen and 35 Senators, almost all Republicans, have signed Grover Norquist's anti-tax pledge at Americans for Tax Reform.

Republican Congressmen have vowed never to raise any taxes for any reason, war, economic collapse, it doesn't matter. To them tax cuts are the answer to any problem. Americans for Tax reform funnels huge amounts of money to Congressmen that honor their pledge and cut off funding and actively work for the election of opposition if they break their pledge.

Middle class people are very angry today because they think taxes are already too high, but half of the people in the country and two thirds of the corporations pay no taxes at all, and the richest of the rich are only paying 17% of their income in taxes, even though the top tax rates have historically averaged 70% and have been about 90% during times of war (like now). http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/24/...

The problem is not that people are taxed too much. The problem is that the middle class bears most of the burden, because the rich and the corporations are not paying their fair share.

But then that is just my opinion.

Please see the documentary tomorrow and see what the experts think.

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COMMENTS
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
25 months ago: Do you know who the national Debt is owed to?

It is to the International Bankers behind the Federal Reserve, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.

They bought you, your kids, our country, our land and everything else.

But did you know that we the American People do not owe them anything?

Yes, the debt is owed ONLY by Federal Subjects!!!

Are you a Federal Subject? Corporate Entity?

Most of you volunteered to be one, without full and complete disclosure -- Did you know that?

When we go back into the Constitutional Common law, the National Debt to these Foreign Agents goes away over night.

The American people's money will stay here after that day.

The American people will benefit from this fact.

Just wait and see.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://freedom-school.com/law/prison_tre...

http://freedom-school.com/keating/how-a-...

Gregoire
Gregoire
25 months ago: You know Ron...somewhere in the deep recesses of my mind I have a sense that what you say is perfectly true.
Somehow there's a complicitous buy in that requires me to agree to owing that money.
Maybe it has to do with agreeing to handle all my debts, public and private by defacto use of the dollars issued.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: I look at it like I owe the money just as I would if my wife took the credit card I gave her on a wild shopping binge. First thing I would do is chop up the credit card.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: TRH,
The United States Government in their deal with the devil promised to stand behind our debts and act as mediator and guarantor between us, the people, and the Federal Reserve Bank. As soon as the US can't make its payments on the loans against us, the Fed will repossess everything that has been secured using US currency.
The very second we reclaim what has been stolen, our birthright and our heritage, our land and our possessions, we will be fighting a war financed by the same bankers running the Fed, here on our own soil. If anyone thinks the Fed is going away quietly, they are mistaken. Are you ready to fight and die for your sovereignty?
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
25 months ago: You will soon learn of the truth of all the claims of the Sovereigns.

Everything will be made clear.

The truth will be out soon.

Then you will know all that I say is true.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://freedom-school.com/law/prison_tre...

http://freedom-school.com/keating/how-a-...

Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Good post Al.

Which entitlements should we cut? We just keep adding more, with the full support of the lower class that pays no taxes.

Did you know that the top 1% of income pays 39% of all income taxes?
The range between top 2% and top 50% pays 59% of all income taxes?
The bottom 50%? Well, what have we got left? 2 or 3%?

So what we hear a lot of is "I'm poor, I need more government help, but I can't pay any taxes, because I'm poor. We need to tax the rich more, to pay for me."
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
25 months ago: The American people have been strangled and suppressive by a tax system that has been based upon fraud.

Yes the people need to pay for the services that they receive, but to pay out more than 70% of your wages is too much and must stop.

The IRS has to be removed as the destroyer of families.

What is fair and what is not fair is our national problem.

THE RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
carguy4414
carguy4414
Omaha, NE
25 months ago: You know if I was allowed to run my check book in the negative in the amount of 13 trillion dollars....I might have a new plasma TV... or more importantly shoes for my kids, food for my family or just the things needed in life like shelter, utilities, clothing, even a long over due vacation.... but since I can't...I guess I will just get my taxes done and write that check to the IRS so some Idiot can Piss it away on another foolish idea in Washington. You know maybe another nuke, we dont have enough of those!!!!!
25 months ago: Great contribution AL. I agree a big part of the problem is that Americans in large part now feel an entitlement simply for being Americans. Welfare was suppose to lift the poor from their poverty, didn't work. Now we have had welfare so long that there is an entire welfare class in our country. Not only do many of these people feel that government owes them a living but now they have demanded and received their "right" for medical care. I am not against having a basic safety net to help people who have had problems and need assistance to get back on their feet but for the most part our welfare and now health care have become pure socialist redistribution of money.
Expansion of government is easy. Creating a government job is pretty simple. The government creates a job for someone to count squirrels in a tree and presto an unemployed person is now employed. However when money becomes a problem (such as debt now) and the government tries to cut unnecessary jobs, suddenly that person counting squirrels becomes an angry citizen and the evil government is trying to take food from his or her families mouth. So the government backs off and after some time (such as now) we have not only massive bureaucratic fat in our government but in the case of our current administration we have officials who's plan to fix the problem is to add even more government.
I am a registered Independent voter and I feel the Republicans have not done much better than the Democrats in respect to managing our money but government has always done a poor job handling money (but health care is somehow going to be different? yea right). At least Republicans however "say" they are for limited government which is something, be it ever so small, to try and hold them to. Democrats have bought the socialist cow and I have little doubt when and if they get what they want change will come. Once the government has enough control it is very simple to make cuts. It's called "do or disappear".
My 2 cents.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Great point, Jakarta.

Once they have their hooks in us deep enough, it would be all too easy to cut the apron strings, so to speak, and eliminate or seriously reduce the entitlements that got them where they are in the first place. They could even place the mantle of patriotism on the cuts, much as the rationing during the world wars was accepted as a patriotic duty. The only difference would be that the people brought this one upon themselves.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: ...At least Republicans however "say" they are for limited government which is something, be it ever so small, to try and hold them to...

JAK, did you actually look at the chart before you made that incredulous statement? The Republican insanity of 'cutting taxes' to promote personal wealth while quadrupling, doubling, and doubling the national debt is no less a charlatan's trick than that of a phony televangelist calling down a windfall from the gold vaults of Heaven while he's enriching himself with his followers money.

The last time the debt ratio was moving south was during Clinton's second term and it was none other than Ronald Reagan who made a permanent mockery of his political party and previous administrations since Truman in reducing the debt ratio. The party of fiscal responsibility is now a riotous joke and yet they have the gall to point their fingers when the Dems are doing the same thing they done since 1980 - Eisenhower must rolling over in his grave. To hold the Republicans to what they say is like telling the televangelist to deliver on his promise of heavenly wealth - they can't and they won't.

As I see it, the only pipe dream solution is a Constitutional Amendment to cap the debt ceiling and impose fiscal responsibility since there is no political party that actually has any serious intent to be responsible.

And Ron Paul being kicked to the curb? He's a Libertarian crank sprinkled with some religious right goofy and here he is putting his ideological foot in his mouth when he says mall security guards are just as good as US Marines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFhaH-6QL...

More on Ron Paul's Libertarian lunacy:

http://www.amateurscientist.org/2008/01/...

Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Markbyrn

You can't really count Clinton as a democrat, he was one of the NEW Democrats, an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush.

1996-01-24 04:00:00 PST Washington --A confident and upbeat President Clinton staged a return to his centrist roots last night, calling on Americans to take more responsibility for themselves and declaring that the "era of big government is over."

"In an election-year State of the Union address clearly aimed more at voters than lawmakers, Clinton positioned himself squarely between the Republicans who took control of Congress last year and the Democrats who dominated it for the four decades before that. "
25 months ago: Okay Mark, so it has taken so long to get back to you.
First, as far as the Republicans handling our finances goes I will reiterate that I do not have any miss conceptions on the failings of our government to be efficient. In fact I believe most conservatives look at the short comings of our government, both Republican and Democrat, and are amazed that Liberals want to hand more over to such an inefficient system of administration. Conservatives are not anti-government (though liberals sure try to pin that on us), we are just anti-big government, i.e bigger is not always better.
So since you are obviously already aware of the fact that our government is not the best administrators. Though you may think Democrats are better it does not matter unless you either want a totalitarian system in which only Democrats hold power. Or it could be that liberals are just oblivious to the fact that all the power they hand over to the Democrats in charge will sooner or later be handed over to Republicans. Point being all the failings the liberals claim Republicans make and all the failings that conservatives claim Democrats make are still all mismanagement by government. I think of it as "government, you can't live with it and can't live without it".

Now as far as whether Republicans do any worse than Democrats at management. Well that is easy enough as I can find as much evidence that it does better than Democrats as you can the other way around. In Democratic circles Reagan sucked and Clinton was great. In Republican circles Clinton sucked and Reagan was great.

http://www.allbusiness.com/accounting/bu...
25 months ago: Now as for Ron Paul. I would like for you to take another look at the you tube link you sent. Look at all the videos on the side which are made by Ron Paul haters. Notice the foul and hateful words used. Are these the people that you relate to? Now as for the video itself. On fact is that this person is putting words into Ron's mouth in an obvious effort to find a way to discredit him. But lets consider this just for fun. Why is it we will stand by while someone gets beat to death. We may call the "proper government authorities" but we dare not intervene for the most part. Why is this? A teen girl was beat into a coma recently while hundreds of school students stood by and did nothing except wait as they have been trained to do for the proper "authority" to arrive. This was not always the case in America. We did not always stand like sheep to be slaughtered when a nut came in and jumped on a table, yelled "God is great" and commenced to slaughter the mindless zombies until the "proper authority" arrived. In this case by the way the proper authority was a "security guard". We have been well trained to do nothing to help others in need. That is our masters job our big governments place not ours, so we don't think or act to help each other because we depend on government to do that. There are however still occasions in which people still act to help rather than stand by idle. There are people who are not even "security guards" which were quite able to defeat terrorism. Just a few months ago it was passengers who stopped a terrorist on a plane not a Marine or air Marshall.
The second link is of course just a "random basher". I did not even notice a name anywhere. Zero credibility.
25 months ago: As for Ron Paul's Libertarian ideals. I think you and many others who ridicule Ron Paul are playing this "naive" card but it just seems silly to me. This idea that Ron would just come into office and change everything with one wave of the wand and our country would collapse. Strange how liberals place everything into "literal" context unless it is a Democrat and then it is always a "generalization". The fact is to me that we should be in the position which Ron calls for. We should not have the depth of government involved with every aspect of our lives which we have now. But to get anything in Washington one must push for way more than he or she expects to get. If one wants a billion dollars for something you push for ten billion and settle for one billion. I'm surprised you are not aware of this Mark. I feel if Ron got into office and pushed for what government should be then we might and I mean might, get a few positive changes. Though I suspect Americans are to far indoctrinated to allow any real cuts or changes which will get us back on the track we need to be on.

You might look into the fact that when Obama and Mcain were peddling sugar coated nothings to America during the presidential campaign Ron Paul was warning of an economic collapse. That however is not the happy, happy, joy, joy that we wanted to hear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3sUtmoMx...

Also you should look into the fact that our leaders are maneuvering us into a one world government which will eliminate Americas sovereignty. Though it seems so many Americans prefer their indoctrinated ignorant bliss state in which everything is going to be wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVuQ4NNMw...

If you don't like the source the information is out there in many places. I am sure most of the left media will spin it as a wonderful thing though.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
25 months ago: All of the States have to balance their books by law. All of Europe requires member States to have a debt no more than 60% of GDP. We would no longer be qualified to join this group that Red would call Socialist countries. The Dems just passed paygo but it is real weak and has a bunch of exceptions. We are going to have to start paying for the benefits we get.

So how do we do that? Right now Hedge Fund Managers are making Billions making the same sort of risky trad es that caused the economy to crash. Why not tax those transactions?

My Representative is sponsoring a bill to do that: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=we...

A simple Carbon tax would generate revenue which would allow us to start paying off the debt, and it would also discourage use of pollution causing fossil fuels that help fund terrorism, and give clean renewable power a boost.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago:
Pay-go gets passed, then it gets bypassed
By Walter Alarkon - 02/16/10 09:33 PM ET

The ink is barely dry on the pay-as-you-go law, and Democrats are seeking to bypass it to enact parts of their job-creation agenda.

Democratic leaders said extensions of unemployment insurance and COBRA healthcare benefits should be emergency spending that isn't subject to the pay-as-you-go statute, which requires new non-discretionary spending to be offset with spending cuts or tax increases.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: "Oregon Representative Peter DeFazio and others in Congress are pushing a new concept that would fund spending programs by taxing securities and derivative transactions."

"Fund spending programs". What's going to pay the debt down?

And then the carbon tax, adds more to the prices of products, all products.
And then the value added taxes, doing the same thing.
And then the unhealthy choices taxes.

Al, your 1200 a month ain't gonna buy much after all those taxes get rolling good.

But I'm willing if you are. If you can prove to me that these tax increases are going to help secure my children's future by paying off our debt, and not just enslave them more in a government stranglehold on their livelihoods, I'll stand behind each and every one of these taxes.

But if we get taxed more, and wind up just blowing the money giving it away like it was free...there is no telling what might happen.
25 months ago: I agree completely OOTB. Most if not all of these taxes on the "evil rich people and businesses" that so many Americans get excited about will get passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Right now in America, it seems to me anyway, we are burning the candle at both ends. The government officials who get elected are those which promise government hand outs. Those such as Ron Paul who was telling us we needed to take immediate action or be faced with a financial train wreck was kicked to the curb by America. All those handouts however cost dearly and we just don't have the money to live so extravagant. So we continue to elect those which add more government and taxes which will certainly come down to the individual in one way or another. We will not accept cuts in our government services and in fact expect more. Where will it end? I noticed most liberals point to Europe with glee (yes even as you have done here AL). Yet as we see Greece is in major financial hot water. Greece's so called advanced and progressive population is ready to riot if any of it's "rights" of entitlements are cut. Though there seems to be a temporary reprieve for Greece there are several other countries not far from its predicament. I am sure the committed progressive minded person will find a way to blame all of Greece and other socialist countries woes on capitalist America. Europe however has a very horrible track record as far as governing goes. It amazes me that anyone would want to emulate a continent that has had nonstop political unrest for as far as we can recall. But hey the French get thirty days vacation a year, so let all jump on that band wagon!!
Colorado
Colorado
Westcliffe, CO
25 months ago: Good post.
scotmanster
scotmanster
25 months ago: Al you sit here for the last few months pushing to increase our debt 1 trillion more dollars but then are worried about how much debt we are incurring? We had enough damaging change and you and your cronies will not hold a seat for another 20 years.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
25 months ago: Scot I am glad that the stimulus was successful in avoiding another great depression. Without that spending unemployment would have been about three times worse than it is.

I have always warned about the harm the National Debt could do and I have always advocated starting to pay it off after the economy has recovered.

Well it looks like the economy has recovered for the super rich. One hedge Fund manager pulled in $4.3 billion last year. The rich get considerably richer while the rest of us suffer. These guys should be paying 90% of there income to pay off the debt, and they would still have more millions than they could ever spend to live on.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
25 months ago: OOTB If a simple carbon tax were revenue neutral, (meaning the money collected was given back to the people to offset higher fuel costs), then it would be very effective at reducing pollution, green house gases, and boosting alternatives, but if half of it was dedicated to reducing the deficit and the debt, then all Americans could contribute to reducing the debt relatively painlessly. (We poor folk will drive our bikes and electric vehicles powered by our photovoltaic panels a lot more).

Obama can only propose things though it is up to Congress to actually pass bills and since Congress is owned by the fossil fuel industry I doubt a simple carbon tax will happen soon, even though the people prefer a simple carbon tax to the complicated cap and trade fiasco by a two to one ration. see:
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/201...

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