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Death Penalty Given To Arsonist!

Posted 35 months ago|13 comments|743 views

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Raymond Lee Oyler , Arson , Murder , Death Penalty

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http://tinyurl.com/cor43k FLAG THIS LINK

Written by

TheLegendTomWing

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA

Wednesday, today, is a victory for 5 firefighters' families who lost their loved ones in blazes set by Raymond Lee Oyler in Southern California in 2006. A jury took less then one day to recommend the death penalty for the man who had once trained as a fire fighter.

Thank God for Jury Trials that give scum-bags what they deserve.

_________
Here's the original article: http://tinyurl.com/cor43k

What do you think? Does someone who kills 5 firefighters in the line of duty deserve to live, if a jury decides he or she doesn't?

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Jakarta99

35 months ago: I think if this person has been proven to do this. Has and uses up an adequate appeal process to be sure he is the one which did this crime. Then I feel it is the right punishment. Capital punishment should be considered a deterrent action not an act of revenge. By giving this person a death penalty it will hopefully make other thrill seeking arsonist wanna be's stop before starting a fire such as this person did. It has been noticed that very often the one important thing to people who care little for others is preserving they're own skin. Capital punishment for this criminal could be the only good thing to come from the whole terrible situation if it saves future unnecessary deaths.

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Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO

35 months ago: Throughout my lifetime, I've vacillated as to being pro or anti-death penalty. Finally, I've reached a conclusion.

I believe the Death Penalty should not be used.
(a) It is too expensive costing tax payers more than keeping a person in prison for life.
(b) It allows 'escape' for a guilty person rather than a life of enduring the knowledge of one's guilt.
(c) It has been used to put innocent people to death as shown countless times in Illinois where DNA evidence after the fact proved innocence for someone who was put to death or exonerate just before so.
(d) It is not for humans to serve as the final judge for humans. Let the powers of the universe decide the fate.

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Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO

35 months ago: This just in, New Mexico bans death penalty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/18/new-mexico-bans-death-pen_n_176666.html

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TheLegendTomWing

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA

35 months ago: I think you both are right, ish. We need some reform on HOW we conduct the death penalty, lets do it like China, one bullet. Cost: About 25 cents. I would pay for the execution myself.

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Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO

35 months ago: LOL, Wingster, but the cost is not due to the method of execution as much as the legal procedures / court costs / lawyer fees since every death penalty case must be appealed by law all the way to the Supreme Court. So, the arsonist in your story already cost the State of California gigantic fees. Now it will have to be appealed to each court between that court and then on to the Supreme Court of the United States. Each court can take its own sweet time and then eventually refuse to hear the appeal, in which case then the person gets executed, but at and point if the justices need or want to hear arguments, then that's more court time and more costs.

For example, "In California the current system costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty."

source: http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/page.do?id=1101084

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Rudi Stettner

Moderator

35 months ago: My thoughts are a bit complex. I think revenge is wonderful. It is lynch mob revenge that is revolting. The more horrible a crime is, the more important the certainty of guilt is. I feel that everyone who enters prison should be offered the benefit of DNA and other forensic testing to establish innocence. Everyone deserves the opportunity to prove innocence, not just the rich. I am not talking about finding legal loopholes for guilty people. The taxpayer should also not be paying to inflict punishment on the innocent.
Also, those who rape and murder IN prison should be put to death. Too many people go in half way normal and come out scarred by abuse in prison. Jail should be an austere and punitive environment but it should be safe.The prisoners are there to be punished and rehabilitated, not to be tortured. Also prison should provide restitution and education opportunities for those who will eventually walk free.
A first offender who gets convicted of murder and pleads innocent should probably get natural life. That way he can at least be compensated if he is later found innocent. A friend of ours was murdered by a guy who left his handprint in the blood of our friend. He is still alive at taxpayers expense. That is a total waste.

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Jakarta99

35 months ago: Some good points here. I think however that the argument could be made that abolishing the death penalty would not alleviate mistakes in the judicial system from being made. In fact it could be argued that when there is no capital punishment the judicial system could lapse into a false sense of security i.e. that if mistakes are made in the prosecution process they can always be corrected in the appellant courts. In reality though with an over worked judicial system this may or may not actually happen.
Innocent people will be convicted falsely and sent to prison for life whether the death penalty is in place or not. They will languish in prison suffering the realization that they're life has been stolen from them. Innocent peoples lives will be taken from them by judicial mistakes regardless. I feel the best thing to do is to try and minimize these occurrences regardless of the penalties in place.
I like Rudi's notation that the more horrible the crime is generally the more evidence available to be certain the correct person is facing this possible punishment. I realize many persons feel good about themselves by opposing the death penalty. I feel however that for many persons that commit the worst form of murder etc. life in prisons could be as much a reward as a punishment. If one of my family members were brutally murdered I am not naive enough to believe I would be a noble and civilized person and say "I don't think this person should face the death penalty" and if I can't say that for my family members how can I say it for others family members.

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TheLegendTomWing

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA

35 months ago: Good points all around!

I think the death penalty needs to be kept around, but obviously we do need some reform in how much prisons cost. Hard Labor?

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kingbtd
Germany

34 months ago: It's funny but it seems like you pro-deathers think the problem is in the individual. Someone brought up China but failed to mention that the USA still executes more prisoners then the entire world combined - you know, including all those backward, radical-fundamentalist, Neanderthal, ignorant, stupid countries... Do you think America is just really unlucky when it comes to crazed, violent killers or murder that has a direct and proportionate relationship to economic issues? It's funny but you all sound like Americas Bankers and CEOs: No one wants to take responsibility for the problems. Some of you even believe that places like China and Cuba, as example, have 'good' prisoners or the 'political-freedom fighting-god loving-righteous-individuals who because of all of these wonderful virtues were sentence to death by the evildoers, despots, dictators, faulty ideologies, goblins, gremlins, ghosts, devils and so on. America, home of the Super Ignorant. 'Oh my gawd, a girl was stoned to death in Iran! Barbarians!' Jeesh, if only ignorance was grounds for the death penalty the world would be doing pretty good right now.

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TheLegendTomWing

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA

34 months ago: Kingbtd, your facts are incorrect: Top 6 countries for most executions in 2006
China over 1,000
Iran 175
Pakistan 80
Iraq 65
Sudan 65
United States 50

Here's the source, also the department of justice:
http://www.antideathpenalty.org/statistics.html

Cheers!

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kingbtd
Germany

34 months ago: I apologize for the incorrect statistics. The following is taken from Wikepedia:
"At least 3,000 people (and probably considerably more) were sentenced to death during 2007, and at the end of the year around 25,000 were on death row, with Pakistan and the USA accounting for about half this figure. China carries out by far the greatest number of executions: Amnesty International has confirmed at least 470 during 2007, but the true figure has been estimated at up to 6,000."

I was confusing the number of actual prisoners with those of executed prisoners. I stand corrected. The USA has more people in prison then the rest of the world combined.

I lived in China for a number of years... it's nowhere near is violent as the USA. Not even comparable. Apples and oranges. As for the 'true figures' that's a relative issue. We still don't consider 'Columbine killings' a political act, so our method of figuring 'statics' is a 'god given' choice of perspective. It's still a story of 'the ignorance and the horse we as Americans ride in on.'

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TheLegendTomWing

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA

34 months ago: The true figures represent people executed by the government within the country, so columbine would not count since the psychopaths that killed all of those students were not employed by the government.

As for the death penalty, i stick by it, look at Singapore and their non-existent drug problem. Drug dealers are hanged. we need that everywhere, it's a huge deterrent.

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Jakarta99

34 months ago: You know kingbtd I find your logic almost identical to the far lefties we have here in the America. You spout off a bunch of "I'm such a great humanitarian" gibberish that makes you some how feel so good about yourself yet fail to ever notice that your reasoning is only based on pure emotion and little else. In one comment you rail the U.S about it's capital punishment and how terrible we are. The Legend points out that the facts are China is the leading county in criminal executions. In your very next comment you praise the same China for it's lack of violence. Do you have the "logic" to identify the common denominators here? In a "free" country people will abuse freedom and do bad things. They will also take advantage of freedom and great things will happen. In a country where people are more afraid of the government than anything else you may have less violence but the abuse will begin to come from the government which is suppose to be protecting it's people. There's a little lesson in common sense for you. Try using a little more logic than emotional socialistic propaganda. All Americans haven't quite become indoctrinated brain dead morons yet.

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