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Baptism: (some say) unessential?

Posted 15 months ago|20 comments|770 views
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The following is a study on the importance of keeping "baptism" biblical. Baptism is for believers; and for those who repent; holding to the truth that our Lord's sacrifice and baptism covers all those who can not be baptized; yet covers none who will not be baptized as He commanded.

If the baptism of and in the Name of Jesus Christ is a "nonessential" how much less "essential" would the baptism by John the Baptist be? And why did so many including Jesus and His disciples follow in obedience to it? Jesus addresses this with the religious leaders of His day...

"(Jesus said) The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Then why don't you believed him? But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they are persuaded that John was a prophet. And they answered, that they could not tell from, where it was." Luke 20:4-7

Here the baptism from John the Baptist was of such importance that if it was denied, the people would stone those who apposed it... how much greater was Jesus than John the Baptist? But it would seem today that the baptism of Jesus the Lord is of little significance or importance... treating it as non-essential. It may be not essential for salvation, but a prerequisite for obedience to salvation.

"Don't you know, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Because if we have been "planted" together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old nature is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, so from now on we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." Romans 6:3-7

Again, if anyone calls the baptism in the Name of Christ the Lord a "nonessential"
how much less "essential" does one make the baptism by John the Baptist?
The Bible depicts John's Baptism as more than just essential...

1.God command the baptism of John
2.John's Baptism fulfilled prophesy in scripture
3.People justified God by obeying John's baptism
4.People "rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of John

(Jesus) For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist... And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. Luke 7:28-30

To read more on the life and testimony of John the Baptist...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...

I have found in my discussion on baptism that if opponents (in application or mode) to this biblical foundational principle cannot find enough evidence for their position, they site incomplete bible text or early "church fathers" tradition as the basis for their teaching. Thus substantiating their claim, and over-riding a lack (they claim) of matter on the subject. If it hasn't been obvious, the point I was making by looking at John's baptism is that if the forerunner's (or lesser's) baptism was indeed a prerequisite and a "fruit of repentance" ...and back in the day the denial of it brought the fear of being stoned by the people as blasphemous; then how the much more important baptism in the Name of Jesus (as is commanded and commissioned) by Christ Himself; is of greater significance and importance?

The correct method of Baptism is by immersion, putting under water. The word baptism in its original meaning simply means to immerse or put under, bury. One can conclude that most that hold to a non-biblical diminishing or unsupported method of Baptism fall into a few camps...

1. as [not yet saved] they err not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God
2. seeking for themselves teachers that promote and justify their belief
3. as saved, they compromise and abuse their liberty to accommodate their belief
4. as saved, they compromise and abuse their liberty to accommodate other's beliefs
5. or lost, some teaching the traditions of men to avoid the offence of the cross
6. as deceived or being deceivers, they knowing the commandment, exange it for a lie

The first method that deviated from the full-immersion method of baptism was in 250AD, until then it was preformed by all, including the Catholics by full immersion (putting under water). A man named Novation was on his death-bed and wanted to be baptized because he hadn't to that point, and feared ...unable to be immersed he had been covered by blankets and soaked by pouring water all over him. After he recovered many followed this manner of pseudo-baptism... he became a leader of "Novationists".

"Stephen replied that it would, yet pouring and sprinkling were not allowed except in cases of necessity. It was not till the year 1311 that the legislature, in a council held at Ravenna, declared immersion or sprinkling to be indifferent. In Scotland, however, sprinkling was never practiced, in ordinary cases, till after the Reformation - about the middle of the 16th century."
http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/vo...

(Jesus) "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and not do as I say?" Luke 6:46

And now why do you wait? get up, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16

As one lie inevitably leads to another of greater magnitude, so leaving BELIEVER's baptism (immersion) to infant (sprinkling, and NO belief), requires the greater heresy of sprinkling; for one cannot immerse an infant. The sin is in the mockery of what baptism is supposed to represent: the death burial and resurrection of Jesus our Lord… ...and Satan is sly to get us away from that would-be constant reminder of true history.

For whatever the reason or the motive to replace a commandment of God for a tradition of men it is wrong. It would be better NOT to be "baptized" (wrongly)
and have the baptism of Jesus (that fulfills all righteousness) ...cover the willing but "unable" ...than to change the word of God and give false hope to the "able"
solely for their convenience. Even Apollos was re-baptized like others by John's baptism.

Of course one might ofend someone who may have been sprinkled as an infant;
but what an offence it must have been to all Jews, in the time of Christ, called to repentance and then baptism by immersion, after being circumcised as an infant?
To them were given the Commandments and promises, and then to turn from that rich heritage, only to be marked with those outside their nation... that was a cost!

Our Lord's baptizm and sacrafice covers all of those who "cannot"
but covers none of those who "will not."
UPDATE - 1 month ago
"Don't Waste Your Life" by John Piper
http://dwynrhh6bluza.cloudfront.net/reso...
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COMMENTS
15 months ago: Immersion only huh?

Is dancing a sin too?
15 months ago: Only some dancing... and you already agreed that it was a sin..
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Tween-Scene...

We are only held accountable for what we know. I was sprinkled and a lot of other things, not by my consent or belief... baptism should be one's choice and in the form that everyone followed from it's inception.
15 months ago: Awright.

I went to a father daughter sock hop last night, and that was not a sin.

15 months ago: You did? You are the coolest!
I like dancing with my wife and kids too... loving one another is a good rule!

15 months ago: Of course! and having sex for any reason besides procreation. Birth control is too, any method except abstinence.

Gee, RSG, don't you know the rules?

So all those who got sprinkled are doomed to everlasting torment? When will they figure out that "differences" in interpretation are why there are continuing disagreements that cause wars?

And they wonder why there are people like me who don't buy into the program.
15 months ago: Six,

Sex was made for pleasure... otherwise it wouldn't feel so good. And from a biblical perspective, haven't you read the Song of Solomon... God preserved that for a reason!

As to "doom" that can only happen by rejection of the Messiah... not by slipping on a banana peal! Following a "form" of any command... cannot save anyone, if they care less about the one who commanded it... and being found WITHOUT the "form" and appearance of obedience, yet having a willingness to obey, if they would have known, will never be counted as sin against them.
15 months ago: You need to talk to your other Christians, they are sure that sex is not for pleasure, it is just pleasurable while you are making a baby and shouldn't be used for enjoyable entertainment. Why do you think Americans as so screwed up about sex? It has been drilled into our heads from birth that it is a dirty, nasty, immoral, sinful act that can only be practiced under matrimonial edict from a religious group and is only done to make babies.

But that wasn't' the topic so we better get off this tact pretty fast or you need to write one dealing with it.

"Form" as in interpretation of scripture. Gee, what a concept, everyone reading the words and getting the same meaning from them. Too bad it doesn't work that way in the real world, if it did there would be one "Christian" religion, not a few thousand. My take on it is that if there was a God, He would make sure that the words were written in a manner that left absolutely zero chance for more than one interpretation and He would influence the readers mind in a way that ensured they couldn't get a different idea about what he said. THAT would be divine intervention in the writing of the Bible, not the crap that gets spewed out ever since the Bible was assembled into one book.

Too bad the early missionaries didn't believe that last bit. They would have left the "savages" alone and not FORCED them to become Christians thus giving us even more screwed up religions like Santeria, Voodoo, and who knows what else and they all would have been "saved" without any effort to convert them. But no, they had to preach to them that first time in order for them to hear the word thereby condemning them to Hell if they didn't believe. Worst part was, they didn't give them a choice nor did they explain the reasoning behind their actions, just herded them all together, made their little speech and (according to scripture) condemned them all to Hell, if they didn't repent and tithe.

Quite a racket I'd say. Lead 'em on, hook 'em and then land 'em in the deposit tray! No wonder there are so many absolutely huge churches around, that would be buildings, the actual body count isn't enough to fill many of them.
15 months ago: Six,

I hope you know I agree with you on how faith is made into a racket... but I hope you also know I'm not talking about religion... but a personal encounter with God. Sex just happens to be one of the experiences that can bring us to the closest thing to heaven on Earth, and the falling apart of a loving relationship... the closest thing to hell.
15 months ago: "It has been drilled into our heads from birth that it is a dirty, nasty, immoral, sinful act that can only be practiced under matrimonial edict from a religious group and is only done to make babies."

Maybe someone else's head, but not mine. I've been married to the same wonderful woman for 19 years and it's still spectacular! As a matter of fact, it is because of the spiritual aspect that the physical has so much more meaning.

The devil always tries to twist what was created GOOD.
15 months ago: True Story!

I have been married for over 25, and I can say all aspects of our relationship has been growing more exciting every year... without saying too much.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
15 months ago: Truth, amazingly I agree with you here - an infant should not be baptized, especially by immersion:

"Priest accused of drowning six-week-old boy during a BAPTISM as family looked on" - see:

http://tinyurl.com/4rxfzea

Of course my reasoning is based on humanitarian grounds not theological. From a theological perspective, like every other religion, Christianity is a human invented religion and there is no ground truth or universal agreement with respect to any doctrine. There is no rational or Scientific means to determine which method is "correct" and thus, you have thousands of denominations of Christianity who claim they have the essential truth over the others. My suggestion is for you to take the red pill.
15 months ago: Mark,

I like your take "on humanitarian grounds" ...see there is some "scientific" grounds for this teaching... baptize only "believers" and nobody gets dead!

And it's too late on the pill thing... what I have now is incurable, and wouldn't want to go back now anyway !:]
15 months ago: Mark,

I must say I am really enjoying the agreement we have over not baptizing infants!
I hope you don't think I'm weak, for savoring every moment. Ha Ha !:]
15 months ago: Quote

REVEREND BOYCE HUBERT: Just because a baptism turns into a little drowning, everybody's gotta blame somebody.
-- King of the Hill, TV show

Don't baptise infants at all. They know even less than some of the adults who participate in it.
15 months ago: Huey... great point!
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
15 months ago: ..Don't baptise infants at all. They know even less than some of the adults who participate in it...

It looks like we have a rare convergence of agreement here but just for argument sake, we could make a similar case for circumcision, and in honor of that, here is the link to perhaps the most commented post in Rant Rave history (813 comments) and the subject was circumcision. Truth wasn't here at the time but the rest of us were and it was quite the debate:

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Mass-Bill-W...
15 months ago: United Methodists baptise infants. The whole congregation joins in and promises to help support the child in Christ.
15 months ago: RSG - I personally think that's cool.

We should all dedicate our children to the Lord. All present should be charged to set a godly example and support not just the child, but the family as well.

There will be a time though where that child is going to have to grow up and believe for them-self based on their own faith, not some one else's. That is the time when the baptism takes place personally and intimately between that person and their God and everyone else just witnesses what they believed for and supported from the beginning.
15 months ago: Red,

The problem with "baptism" instead of dedication, is that it presents a sort of vaccine to the real thing... a false hope of protection or salvation, and those like myself grow up without the necessity of baptism. Dedication is the way to go, and no confusion over terms or responsibility.
15 months ago: Simply put, the word "baptize" was transliterated from the Greek word baptizo, which means immerse... had they just translated it instead we would never had this problem.

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