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Abortion: Facts Not Propaganda

Posted 8 months ago|85 comments|842 views
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Abortion: Facts Not Propaganda

Less than 2% of the abortions that occur are due to health or some other horrendous circumstance. So, I'm not speaking here to extenuating circumstances like abuse, rape and danger to mother's life. That's a Rant/Rave for another day.

Unwanted pregnancies most often arrive based upon the willful actions of individuals who know the possibilities yet engage in high risk sexual behavior. What I am addressing here specifically is abortion as a means of birth control for convenience.

Most of the time the pregnancies could be avoided rather than circumvented if people conducted themselves responsible young people or adults. From a young age our children need to be taught and shown models of discipline and self-respect. That way when they become adults they will have the tools and the mind-set to act responsibly.

Our children are sexualized and exploited at earlier and earlier ages. It's unfortunate that we live in a society that promotes promiscuity and self-centered irresponsibility. Get rid of both of those and the abortion rate drops immediately.

It's unfortunate that all too often the fathers or potential fathers, abdicate their responsibilities and leave the females holding the bag. That should never happen. In those situations those individuals should have never hooked up in the first place. Bad choices again. Don't sleep with a loser and what happens to the chances of unwanted pregnancy?

Abortion should never be seen as just another simple method of birth control. It is far more serious than that.

It's reprehensible that there are organization out there that have a problem when folks want to talk women or couples out of having an abortion.

"Going by the names, Crisis Pregnancy Center, Pregnancy Aid, Birth Right, Open Door, CareNet, Life Choices, or Pregnancy Counseling Center, these groups want to be the first contact a woman makes when she thinks she might be pregnant, so they can talk her out of considering abortion."

What's wrong with that? Why is it that certain folks want abortion to be on the top of the list of "alternatives"? Why? Because of money, that's why. No abortion, no pay. Also - eliminate the undesirables. Why allow the birth of one destined to be on the welfare roll and suck up tax dollars in prison? Simple answer: Expunge before it even happens, right? That's the philosophy of many who have founded clinics around this nation.

Folks often will use this issue for political purposes, but politics has NOTHING ultimately to do with it. Also, this is not necessarily a religious issue. This is a issue Moral issue. All individuals have a mandate to moral responsibility and accountability. Period.

Atheists & Agnostics for Life
http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.htm...
Non-religious arguments and articles supporting pro-life principles

Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians
http://www.plagal.org/
A group with members from all sexual orientations committed to the pro-life cause.

Secular Pro-Life
http://www.secularprolife.org/
A staunch pro-life group committed to religious neutrality, with information on secular reasons to be pro-life.

Turn the Clock Forward
http://www.turntheclockforward.org/
Progressive, liberal pro-life blog that addresses pro-life liberalism and links to news articles on pro-life issues.

Fact is, if women and men would exhibit some self control, this issue would not be the problem that it is. Again, the problem is not politics and the problem is not lack of religion; the problem is irresponsible people that want an easy way out. I know not everyone has the same values. However we have all been dealt the hand of life. What we do with it is our responsibility. We reap what we sow.

Some use the cop-out or excuse that "It's my body. I can do with it what I want."

Rubbish.

Even on a liberal slant, first trimester baby is distinct individual from the mother. Baby has her arms and legs, own heart beat, own blood type, own DNA, own nervous system and own brain. The baby can feel pain.

It's amazing to me that some folks are still pissed at Michael Vick even after repentance and after him doing time, yet they have no problem killing their very own kids. Sick world we live in where dogs are more valuable than babies.

Legal murder is still murder. You may have the right but it is still WRONG.

It takes two to tango. Unwanted pregnancies CAN be avoided. It's a matter of lifestyle choices.

In either party has unrealistic expectations, lacks the ability or refuses to communicate value and vision, or turns a blind eye to the potential consequences of having sex in uncommitted relationships then there is no wonder we have this problem.

Again, most abortions could be totally avoided if the parties who were engaging in the activity that produces pregnancy were responsible. Irresponsibility on the part of either the man or the woman potentially puts an innocent life in danger.

There is a better way.

However, if we go with the flavor of the day rather than make good decisions and back them up with responsibility we will continue to have the same disastrous results.

I'm not mandating to anyone here what to do. You will have to answer for yourself. However I am telling you how it is, like it or not.

Thank you for reading,

HN


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAiSNd_vZ...
Birthright International

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjNo_0cW-...
Silent Scream - Full Version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRBGDgJKZ...
Your Daddy Loves You - Gil Scott-Heron
UPDATE - 8 months ago

"Just as a suicidal person is crying out for help when she tells others she wishes she were dead, so a woman who is distressed over a pregnancy is crying out for help when she tells others she is considering abortion. In both cases, the desperate person is reaching out in the hope that someone will announce they truly care, and will truly help them. They need to see the value of life, their own as well as their child's, reflected in the love of those who would help them preserve that life. They need to hear that they are strong enough to triumph in the life that is theirs, and that whenever they grow weak, we will be there to strengthen them and even carry them. "

David C. Reardon, Ph.D.
UPDATE - 8 months ago
WHY SEX EDUCATION FAILS

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Why-Sex-Edu...

More food for thought.
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COMMENTS
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: While abortion should not be used as a birth control method, it also is not anybody else's business what a women does with her body.

The primary argument comes down to a belief or understanding of when life begins. For most Pro-Life folks it begins at conception. For other people it begins at birth. I would say that both of these are incorrect from my perspective. Life begins when the fetus has a fully functional brain (this is also required for life outside the womb). A fully functional brain does not exist until roughly the 18-24 weeks (well outside the first trimester).

Secondly you say that abortion is equivalent to murder, it simply is not. Something must first be alive in order to be killed. Murder is also defined as the killing of a person. In order to be a person there needs to be some level of self-awareness, which again requires fully functional brain activity which again...does not exist during the first trimester. If an abortion takes place within the 3 or 4 weeks of pregnancy there is not even a brain cell developed yet, and therefore no human is being killed (or murdered).

Your efforts to convey your point are commendable, however far too emotional (the "your murdering babies" thing is overplayed).

If a person is opposed to abortion because of moral/religious values that is an easy thing to deal with...DON'T HAVE AN ABORTION...kind of like how if you are anti-gay marriage the easy solution is to not marry a gay person. But this country is founded on the basis of liberty, and if a person has no such objections to abortion and decides that they want to have one then that is their business and their business alone. There is no Constitutional grounds on which a ban could stand, and there is existing Supreme Court precedence which makes abortion legal.
8 months ago: PH,

I agree with this small statement you made that it is nobody... "else's business what a women does with her body" ...if a woman wants to cut her arm off that's her choice! However aborting a premature baby is not her body plain and simple.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: Again, your religious beliefs convince you that life beings at conception. Scientifically a functional brain is required for human life...being that no functional brain is present in the first trimester there is no life being ended.
8 months ago: At one time it was legal to lynch people too. That did not make it right.

Most people in this country know that abortion is wrong.

However there are groups that are out there that are determined to brainwash folks into thinking it's a valid option just because it is legal simply so they can get paid and kill off undesirables.

Many don't even know that the entire genetic code is established at conception, 18-25 days after there is even a discernible heart beat. The beat of the heart is a very significant consideration in the determination of human life, isn't it? We all need to understand that.

Within 8 weeks, very early in the first trimester, brain waves and fingerprints are present. At 12-13 weeks she sucks her thumb and recoils from pain. That's significant, isn't it?

This is no undifferentiated mass of protoplasm. That is a biological lie. It is a mass, a life, which is already genetically differentiated from mom.

We are not dealing with domestic sewage. I have never seen sewage with a heartbeat and brainwaves. This reflects an extremely low view of life altogether. And that my friend is a problem that spills over into all other areas of life.

If a person feels a fetus is not a baby then they should have no problem with visuals. Yet the abortion industry keeps the truth hidden to line their pockets. No sonograms, no visuals allowed. Why? Because there would be fewer abortions, that's why. Plain and simple. The industry cannot make money if folks are talked out of abortions and that they will not tolerate.

As for the functioning brain argument: A person who is brain dead has NO CAPACITY to revive himself. But the developing embryo has the natural capacity to bring on the functioning of the brain. So what happens in an abortion is the death of what would be the natural growth of a unique individual. An individual which from conception is independent though connected to the mother's body.

Call it potential life if you will, but potential life is no less potential at 1 week pregnancy that it is at "viability" or afterwards. Life that should be protected. That's the hypocrisy of Roe v. Wade.

Supreme Court decisions have been overturned in the past. No reason to believe it can't happen again.

Of course it's going to take a fight. There is too much wealth to be made in the in-utero extermination of babies. However, with proper education of ALL the facts, coalitions, and revolutionary fervor, this blight can and will eventually be done away with to the chagrin of the industry.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: There is no evidence that the recoil to pain is not simply reflexive action. Fully functioning brain wave activity does not exist until at the very least 14 weeks. Prior to that any activity in the brain cell area is just electrical impulse.

Heart beat does not imply "Human" life. Human life requires self awareness, not present without fully functioning brain, well outside of the first trimester. Bugs have beating hearts too...we kill them all the time. Other mammals have beating hearts and we kill them too. People in a coma with no brain activity have a beating heart but they are allowed to die without the loved ones being called murderers.

If a woman wants a sonogram before an abortion she can go get one from a doctor that provides those services...are you seriously trying to regulate what equipment private practice doctors must have on hand?
Content Removed by Huey Newton
8 months ago: "Other mammals have beating hearts and we kill them too."

It's a big problem when human beings, in terms of ultimate value of life, are lumped in with cows, sheep and bugs.

That statement just further proves the point.

It's thinking like that which has shot the suicide and murder rates through the roof.
8 months ago: Good Post Huey!
8 months ago: A quote from David C. Reardon:

http://afterabortion.org/1999/david-c-re...

"Just as a suicidal person is crying out for help when she tells others she wishes she were dead, so a woman who is distressed over a pregnancy is crying out for help when she tells others she is considering abortion. In both cases, the desperate person is reaching out in the hope that someone will announce they truly care, and will truly help them. They need to see the value of life, their own as well as their child's, reflected in the love of those who would help them preserve that life. They need to hear that they are strong enough to triumph in the life that is theirs, and that whenever they grow weak, we will be there to strengthen them and even carry them. "
Felix Mannow
Felix Mannow
England
8 months ago: What are your views lets say if a teenager or lady was raped and then wanted an abortion.
There has to be set in stone rules you cant have it both ways you either have abortions or you dont.
If you then pick and choose thats where the confusion starts.
Felix have spell checker it good.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
8 months ago: It's a screwy world, when people say "a woman has a right to do as she pleases with her own body".

It's legal for her to remove, or have a doctor a remove, the organism that she caused to exist, yet if she tries to commit suicide from the feelings of despair or guilt, she can be forcibly restrained from doing so.

It's her body, why is she not allowed to kill it if she wants? The answer is simple. Because it is our moral responsibility as a civilized people to try our best to help her.

The second strongest urge built into our species is the need to procreate. Who are we to say that it's ok for a young woman to saddle herself with the knowledge that she deliberately murdered one of the most basic reasons for her own existence? Like suicide, abortion is a permanent irreversible solution to what may be only a temporary problem.

As men, we could only dream of knowing what that torture is like.
8 months ago: I am thankful that there are agencies and programs that will give women actual and relevant information and choices that are alternatives to abortion. If more real and sincere education was taking place, this crime against humanity would end.

As it is, the days are numbered.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: Could you provide evidence that "the days are numbered" please.
8 months ago: PH HELLO...

Today is the 22nd !:]
8 months ago: Good one.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: Bazinga
Jennifer Kellog
Jennifer Kellog
8 months ago: Love it!
8 months ago: They have been taught to think of a fetus as a tumor.
8 months ago: Check this out...

"Hundreds of pro-life supporters rallied Tuesday as part of a drive to make Ohio the first state in the country to pass a law effectively banning abortions once a fetal heartbeat is detected.
"This day signals the beginning of the end of abortion on demand," Janet Folger Porter, president of Faith2Action, told the rally in the Ohio Statehouse in Columbus.
People have seen bumper stickers saying "Abortion stops a beating heart," she said. "What I want to tell you, though, is when the heartbeat bill becomes law, we're going to reverse this: And it's going to mean that 'a beating heart stops abortion.' "
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: Now you are making sense...States have the right to do this...the Federal Government does not.

Allowing states to handle state issues is a big step forward for this country.

If states handle the abortion issue there will likely be about half the states would have it legal and half would likely be illegal.
8 months ago: PH,

OK, say the State makes a ruling and then Obama uses his trump-card and bypasses the State and pushes it anyway... like Planed Parenthood funding??????
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: Apples to Oranges.

New Hampshire decided that they were not going to provide tax funding to Planned Parenthood, they did NOT make abortion illegal in the State of New Hampshire. The federal government can provide funding to them if they find the health services they provide to be necessary to the well-being of a group of people (Planned Parenthood does a lot more than abortions).

If New Hampshire was serious about instilling its morals on the people of the state they would/could have just banned abortion in New Hampshire. They did not/could not do this.

On a side note: World Net Daily? Seriously? They are more biased than Fox News...why don't you try reading something from an objective source. (I didn't read the article as it is not news worthy nor is it reliable as a source; it is just a smear site.)
8 months ago: The only folks that don't call a woman with child first trimester are those who see no problem with killing the baby. If you check out the parenting publications, family magazines and such, the baby is not called fetus but "baby."

The psychology of the situation is this, if you are 3 months pregnant and you "choose" to follow through = baby. Three pregnant and want to abort = fetus.

The problem really comes in with regard to the psychological damage and scarring that takes place to the potential mother. None of that is seriously looked at for the most part because it really has nothing to do with the mother's reproductive rights. What it has to do with is making money.

The very first rebuttal to my post has to do with a woman having a "right" to do what she wants withe her own body. Well it is not her own body. What is growing in her is a unique life of its own.

Again, just because something is government sanctioned does not mean its right. Also there are a plethora of doctors and trained medical professionals that see the fetus as a baby physically, morally and ethically before the end of first trimester.

Any thinking person should realize that abortion for birth control is wrong. Study the long-term trends and consequences that go along with it and you will see far more that just the taking of innocent life. You will also see the pain, anguish and suffering, both mental and physical, that go along with having done something that could have been avoided had there been a true acceptance of responsibility.

Folks want to destroy the nuclear family and then cry about there being no support for pregnant mothers. Men are taught to be perpetual adolescents, sowing wild oats with no accountability. Schools teach children that they cannot control themselves sexually and frown at even the mention of abstinence programs. It's all a set up.

Bottom line - Abortion is BIG BUSINESS and there are those who intend to make sure it stays that way. Many of them could care less about a woman's re-productive rights.

They want MONEY, POWER, and INFLUENCE. This messed up industry gives them all of the above. It is not run by honest people, especially at the top, and the sooner folks wake up, the better.

I am all for protecting women and their rights. I am married and I have kids of my own. The proper guidance should be in the direction of LIFE not DEATH.

I also believe that when the choice is death, that it should not be whitewashed and candy coated. We will all have to answer for ourselves and playing these types of games causes more harm and no good long term.

http://afterabortion.org/2011/abortion-r...

People, we can do better than this.
sunny2
sunny2
8 months ago: Bravo, Huey.
I called mine by name from the very beginning. I don't believe these people that abort will ever know what ultimate joy is. They themselves are missing out on a God given experience. If a Mother doesn't have a loving nature to begin with, she shouldn't get pregnant. If a father is abusive and uncaring, this is where great problems manifest. Its a domino effect. If parents themselves were never given love, they can't love.
I see problems arise when the child isn't wanted after birth and that lack of emotion by either parent is carried out through its innocent young years. The long lasting effects of this causes many adulthood problems. Not having the gentle physical touch of a parent from birth is devastating. There are plenty of people out there that will gladly step in.
8 months ago: Huey. I really think this is an important statment by you...

"Most of the time the pregnancies could be avoided rather than circumvented if people conducted themselves responsible young people or adults."

Sorry to the RR community if you think the TCG has been avoiding you.

We have been real busy for the last month in Scouting. This week was "Rally" week and our Scout Unit more than doubled in size.

Looks like some of the RantRavers will get a prolonged reprieve from TCG as we now move on to the induction of the new Scouts (and scout family) phase.

Enjoy it while you can.
8 months ago: Way to go. I run a Royal Rangers scout program too. Great working with kids.

Steer them right, less chances of them going wrong.
8 months ago: Yeah. We are scrambling over here right now as we already have 2 campouts scheduled in the next 2 months. We now have to factor into the mix that our medium size Scout Unit (45 scouts) has grown into a large Scout unit (90 Scouts) overnight. It is a going to be a fun project for the next 2 months.
anonymouse
anonymouse
Swaziland
8 months ago: OMG
Double OMG
Cypress is sounding like Sunny all this helping people,well ill be damned.
8 months ago: "ill be damned." Why would any intelligent person want that?
sunny2
sunny2
8 months ago: Some never have a good role model, so they don't know the difference.
You are giving them a chance by setting an example.
Very cool.
Jennifer Kellog
Jennifer Kellog
8 months ago: Mr. Newton, being a woman, I find your comments very impressive and honorable. You have obviously given this matter great thought and expended more than half a minute on your research. I commend your reasoning, we have too little of it this day, and your ability to coherently express what all decent human beings know and what the indecent will always deny.

Thank you for being another voice for the millions of innocents that have been and continue to be, murdered every day in this most reprehensible practice. May God have mercy on our souls.
8 months ago: Hear, hear. Huey is the honerable one. Me? I'll just punch them in the nose if need be.

Welcome to the site.
8 months ago: Thank you Jennifer.

It's encouraging to hear another like-minded voice on this subject. Especially the like-minded voice of a woman.

With lots of work, we can continue to get more folks educated to the truth of this abominable industry. Over time, we can all strive to make an even more profound impact in giving hope where there is none, and continue to save lives that would have otherwise been destroyed.

Thanks again.

Also -- Welcome to Rant/Rave. I hope you hang around for a spell.
anonymouse
anonymouse
Swaziland
8 months ago: Its a womans choice as she has to give birth and men should have no say in this subject at all as you cant give birth so you have no experience of any of the feelings involved and what we go through.
You base your judgements on hearsay.
8 months ago: You're hiding behind a mouse. Take the hood off.
8 months ago: If that's the way you feel then you must also feel that it is the woman's sole responsibility to raise and care for the child. You can not have it both ways.
8 months ago: Human life is sacred and should be preserved at all costs.. Or it's not. There is no longer any room to maneuver.

If life is sacred, then we simply must stop capital punishment. We must also prohibit our service men and women from killing our enemies. We may want to take a look at sky diving and other frivolous activities that could result in loss of life.
8 months ago: I thought about skydiving for fun once and then I came to my senses.

I have a family and jumping out of an airplane for fun just does not fit into the equation. Very unnecessary risk.

I personally believe all life is sacred. I'm not a fan of capital punishment. However, I do feel we all have the right to protect ourselves and the obligation to protect our families from those who would directly attempt to do us harm physical otherwise.

Devaluing the worth of a human being is a tragic mistake. When life is devalued all types of terrible things can come into play. It opens the door to disaster.
sunny2
sunny2
8 months ago: When you have a family, they come first.
If single, you can tempt fate more.
That is the part of life that brings adventure.
Those that would devalue life have no place on this planet.
sunny2
sunny2
8 months ago: Slim, I understand what you are saying.
My point is doesn't society have to be protected so that life will go on. If criminals had no fear of God in them, we would be overrun and maimed. There would be violence and no law.
There has to be rules in every society. There has to be law to preserve the Peace for the masses.
I don't believe in war but the soldiers fight to protect, not just for the sake of killing. You talk of sky diving being a risk. Going out every day is a risk, so life itself is a risk right from birth.
I think that humans are born with a spirit of adventure that's why the greatest adventure left is traveling into the last frontiers of the universe. I don't know that's just my take on it.

8 months ago: I'm not sure if society needs to be protected. I'm thinking perhaps we as individuals need protecting against society. We are constantly passing laws "for the greater good" without bothering to enforce the laws we have on the books or at the very least removing those that no longer fit the situation.

I don't believe in war either and I think we have a real problem in this country with our military stance. We have become the worlds army. And for what? A Veto in a flyblown idea that is the United Nations. We spend billions on inflated contracts for infrastructure in other countries yet couldn't, in a timely fashion evacuate hurricane victims. We are fighting and dying for the rights of people who last week were burning our effigies in the streets.

I am not anti-choice nor am I anti-life. I am pro humans being able to live a good life even unborn baby humans. Sometimes that is simply not possible. I'm sure we all have heard the horror stories of state run orphanages and other atrocities where children are handled like livestock. or worse simply abandoned to the winds.

I know people that for all intents and purposes are walking abortions. Abandoned by parents to grow up in the streets with the rats, who think nothing of the value of human life or property who live their lives looking for trouble or merely have such disregard for the rest of us that they cant be bothered to act in civilized fashion.

People should have the liberty to make up their own minds based on their own beliefs. It really is that simple. It should however in no way be funded by the federal government. If the state wants a program to pay for them then its up to the state to set it in motion and deal with the consequences.
sunny2
sunny2
7 months ago: Huey, I think Gov. passes these laws for the "greater good" to act like they are doing something. They are too scared to cross the line and actually do something that is worthy for fear of stepping on someone else's' toes. There are no individuals left that will fight the battle for honor or justice. Again I don't believe in war, but in WWII they were right off the coast ready to come in and take over. It is either survive or be wiped out. Society will only care if they are on their own trying to survive.
Society has bad problems. I think about these kids in the service of our country losing their lives and limbs for a society that's ambivalent. These soldiers come home broken, disabled, and maimed. It's a joke because you can see some of the remarks right here how the soldiers are disrespected by society. I don't believe that it will ever change. How do we stop wars and conflicts globally? No one ever agrees on anything that concerns peace.
As far as pregnancy in some cases, woman have to deal with post partum depression. Killing children is on the increase with mothers which you see in the news on a daily basis. Children from broken homes bear the risk of unhealthy and dangerous environments. These people are gutter rats as you mentioned, but I don't believe it can be fixed so easily.
I don't believe that people will ever control themselves enough to love or want an unborn child if it is against their nature to. They have bad character on a whole which leaves them with no conscience and don't care. They are plain stupid. That's why I think abortion is a difficult and hard problem to resolve on a straight and narrow way for most. Even the unlikely innocent looking people can be cruel and abusive to children after they are born. They shouldn't have kids because they hide who they are for the sake of society's acceptance. These people have problems and secrets underlying their character. People have devalued life. One time family meant something to each and every American.
sunny2
sunny2
7 months ago: I apologize Slim. I didn't see that you wrote this.
Yes, I agree with you. There isn't enough done for the people right here at home. The problem I find with a great many people making their own decisions is that they are incapable. Many are not of sound mind. You've seen a lot and have experienced a lot of situations, so you know first hand. Someone close to me had said one time that they didn't want their 3rd child. I was sick over it, but I couldn't do anything about it. This child was born thank God. Turned out to be self-sufficient, raised a bright family, has a business, and has a good
life. Every child should have a chance.
Jennifer Kellog
Jennifer Kellog
8 months ago: @anonymouse
Dear Friend, I AM a woman, I could easily have made this choice and dear, dear friends of mine HAVE and live every day with the pain of their choice.

I, for one, am grateful for the men in this world who understand that this issue is not about taking a drive in a park, it's not about a woman's right to vote, it's about ending the future of a potentially awesome individual and creating a life of regret for another.

It's about ignorant women who remain uneducated about alternatives and about the horrid facts of their choice or who choose to put their heads in the sand because they think it's the easier thing to do.

It's about the murderers who perform these killings every single day. Oh the blood on their hands they will have to answer for one day, and those who agree with it... you will answer for that too.

Huey and Slim and others are quite right. How pompous of a woman to think that just because she is the one that God has blessed with the ability to birth a child, she should somehow be the sole decision maker on whether or not that child should be exterminated. How selfish! As if she... is the only one affected. It baffles the logical, reasoning mind... How utterly small in the thinking process...
8 months ago: Word up.
8 months ago: Huey (Lee) Newton... Nice Profile Pic !:]
sunny2
sunny2
8 months ago: When a woman is aware of that child being part of her, she can visualize the child as a person and can see its future. For me, this child than has a place in life set aside for them. We don't own these kids, they only come through us.
Therefore, any woman carrying a life force such as this has the responsibility to give life, not death. If the child is unwanted by the mother or father, there are plenty of people out there who can't conceive and would gladly take it as their own.
sunny2
sunny2
7 months ago: I don't know who is referring to what I said.
A normal woman or man, a Mother and a Father, who wants their child can visualize that child's life. My having given birth as a healthy parent is a phenomenal experience and a blessing.
That child is wanted and loved before birth. That's a big difference from those who have no desire for children but get caught in it and think nothing of getting rid of it. They aren't meant to be parents and "no" education or videos or physiatric therapy will change them.
Others who have no sense of parenthood can't foresee raising a child. It's human nature to love a child.
sunny2
sunny2
8 months ago: We are doing our part, too bringing in educational programs to a few hundered orphans.
It costs but who else is going to do it for them. You guys have worthy programs, and I commend you.
7 months ago: "Most people in this country know that abortion is wrong.

However there are groups that are out there that are determined to brainwash folks into thinking it" (end quote) is wrong.

Actually you should have said: Most people in this country know that other people in this country THINK abortion is wrong and are bound and determined to force their "supposed" morality upon all the rest.

You can stand on your soapbox and shout "It's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong" till the cows come home for all the good it will do. Abortion has been around since man learned how to cause it by external action and since the human body developed the ability to self-impose it. You and those like you who want to make a public issue out of each and every individual female who entertains the idea so as to "shame" them into going full term regardless of their ability to care for a child through 18+ years of life are just busy bodies working another avenue to impose your religious or moral doctrine upon others and if you can get the courts to side with you, the happier you will be. So what if it means enacting more religious based laws without a shred of logical reasoning behind them, those of your ilk think that that is how it is supposed to be, laws passed to support "your" religious beliefs. Strange that our country is fighting a war on terror against like minded people of a different religion than most of the "right to lifers".

"The beat of the heart is a very significant consideration in the determination of human life, isn't it?" Actually the heart beat is a poor indicator of human life. Most all critters have one; even plants have a life-blood system if not an actual heart. Brain activity is a much better determining factor. Is it not the human brain that sets us above the other critters? Opposable thumbs are neat but not that big a deal if you have a brain that can work around difficulties without them.

Yes young people who become sexually active should take precautions but who said that most of the abortions were being performed on teenagers?

http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/... this chart seems to put the age group a bit older than the parkers and back alley necking teenagers. In fact the age group is young voters, not teeny boppers.

As for those groups who want to talk to women who are considering their options ( and many of them want to make it the LAW that they get first dibs), what is their real agenda? To help or to get access so they can intimidate? I think they really want to know who these women are so they can bring the power of shaming a person into doing what someone else wants rather than what the person really wants.

"If a person feels a fetus is not a baby then they should have no problem with visuals." What are you getting at? Do you want to force a woman to view videos and photos of aborted matter? That is just sick, even sicker than forcing someone to watch a video of their parents having sex. Sure it would cut down on the abortions; it would probably cut down on sex in general, even between spouses. If every person who underwent a surgical procedure had to watch videos and see photos, there would be a lot less surgery too. How about this, for all the poor women forced to watch videos of abortions, those who talked them into it (watch the video), those who helped pass laws to require it and those who make it their life's work to try to change the law so that abortion will be forced to back alley's and other countries again, force them to watch videos and view photos of all the murdered children and young (and not so young) women who someone insisted should not be aborted or were forced to have babies they didn't want because an abortion was just too difficult to obtain due to laws passed to prevent them even though the US Suprem
7 months ago: Like I said, MOST people in this country KNOW abortion is wrong.

If that were not the case there would not be the outcry when folks present the evidence that an abortion is the ending a life that is quite distinct from that of the mother.

Like I also stated, this issue transcends religion and politics.

It is a moral problem. True, not all folks have the same morals. However MOST people do have a high value for human life. That's why its very important for all parties to understand the nature of what is happening when an abortion occurs.

Many people do not know what it's all about. Also there is a persistent lobby of individuals and groups that don't want them to know. That's the problem.

The abortion industry's biggest concern is not the right of a woman. It's the making of MONEY. That's a FACT

Planned Parenthood itself, though it has changed somewhat, was originally designed to kill off specific portions of the population. That's a FACT.

The women who refuse to see the ultrasound when offered are those who know in their heart that what they see on that monitor will more than likely PREVENT them for making the choice to have an abortion. That's a FACT.

When in-utero children are aborted a potential world changer is flushed out of existence. That needs to end. There would be no need to change laws if folks would change their thinking. That's what I'm shooting for.

An abortion is a horrendous thing. That's pretty much agreed upon by folks who have any type of moral values or put high esteem on human life. Abortion is a tragedy.

It's doubly a tragedy when it is done by folks who live irresponsibly and could have avoided getting pregnant in the first place.

The abortion clinic should not be the first line when pregnancy occurs. It's not a matter of shamming anyone, either. It's a matter of dealing with the truth, getting to the root of the problem and helping eliminate the mind-set that sees abortion as trivial and a first-line option to human irresponsibility.

Where I come from a heartbeat is very important. Without it you are dead.

No. I am not advocating that everyone who considers an abortion be FORCED to look at videos of aborted matter. That thought never crossed my mind. However, I think it would be a good idea to offer at least an ultrasound before a woman makes a choice that could destroy the rest of her life.

If you don't want babies don't have sex. If pregnancy occurs, take responsibility, don't make excuses, don't shift the blame and don't cop-out.

That is the point of the post.

7 months ago: It looks like it's a worldwide problem that people can have abortions so easily.
Now I believe it should not be allowed unless there are horrific details like rape etc.
It needs to be managed tightly to make sure people do not try and exploit the system,
Perhaps try them for murder if they lie about there details and have an abortion.
Stern sentences and education are the way forward
sunny2
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7 months ago: I read what everyone says. I understand what you are writing.
There is one thing missing here that is a little disturbing.
Woman have the babies. Yet, when one speaks know one listens or cares and woman are silenced by a lot of rhetoric.
Men do not know everything about childbearing. You have many good points and some I don't agree.
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7 months ago: Go ahead blast me.
7 months ago: You don't need blasting Sunny. You have a valid point.

Women are the ones who have the babies, this is true. But they are not alone in the baby making process. Not the baby making process, nor the ultimate decision making process either.

What is twisted and unfortunate is that often times the women are coerced into having abortions by the men that impregnated them. On the flip, sometimes it is the women who lack the commitment and guts, while the men stand by seemingly helpless and watch their progeny get flushed without any seeming leverage at all because they have swallowed the lie that they have none.

That should never happen.

That should never happen, especially when the man is ready, willing and able, to do the right thing by the mother and his anticipated offspring.

This issue is complex.

The last thing I intended to do by writing this piece is to take a stance of seeming moral superiority over anyone or any stance. That I have not done. I simply recognize what is going on.

I care.

And I have taken a stand for what I believe is in the best interest of all of us.

I have not mandated anything but I have clearly expressed where I am coming from.
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7 months ago: So true, Huey.
I didn't think you were trying to be superior. You're o'kay.
I was trying to get a word in edgewise to express myself.
The issue is complex when one or the other parent is not on the same page. There is a lot of ignorance out there and how much out there is normal and sane.
On the other hand, there is a lot of stuff going on out there and the unborn and the birth children are victims of it. There is no choice at all when it comes to situations of out and out crime when abortions are obtained illegally or a mother tries it on her own. I wonder how many really do have a choice for pro life or abortion the way society is showing its evil face. You hear and see so much these days you lose faith in society.
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7 months ago: I hope we aren't going back to the dark ages dealing with abortion. No one can come up with any kind of a solution because of the complexities.
7 months ago: Huh? "because of the complexities"?

Really? It is not that complex.

Boys need to keep their pickle in their pants and girls need to keep the lemon between their knees.

It's that simple.
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7 months ago: Big Guy Cyress.....I hope you read my explanation to you.
Complexities come from illness and adictions that the parents may have which effect the unborn child. That's my take on it.
7 months ago: "Do you want to force a woman to view videos and photos of aborted matter?"

Here's the deal. If we are looking at pieces of a thing that was never alive in the first place, what difference does that make?

It's just parasitic, inhumanic waste. Right?

Anyone.....?
7 months ago: It is the manner and intention of those who would make it a law that a woman seeking information about or an actual abortion that is more objectionable. Far as I know, there is no other medical procedure that people who are not concerned with anything but interfering in other peoples lives are attempting to get laws passed to force the patient to view all the gory details before making the decision.

The manner: as gory and as many formed parts as possible, no matter that some of those videos are of post 3 mo medical abortions.

Intention: to make the woman decide to NOT have an abortion.
7 months ago: You didn't address the question.
7 months ago: Again, I'm not saying anyone should be forced to view it.

However, if it was never alive what difference does it make? It's like a toe nail clipping or a hair cut. Shouldn't faze anyone. Right?
7 months ago: The wording of the question made it one that expressed an opinion that I don't agree with.

Yes it is human tissue. Yes it is "parasitic", same as all parts of a body that can live without it. You really don't need two arms, two, eyes, not even two legs, but I wouldn't advocate cutting them off just to prove it.

As for it being alive, the tissue is living but is not a "person", it is not an individual yet. It has the potential to become one if allowed to continue to develop.

What purpose would be served to force someone to watch abortion videos other than to "hurt" them, cause them mental pain/upset, emotional turmoil (like they don't have enough of that already), possibly enough to change their mind? Would you have someone watch other surgical videos before going through with elective surgery?

Not all abortions are simply for birth control, that is just the end result and would be extremely expensive as well as very hard on the woman who used that method. Many times it is the best way out of a bad situation. Yeah, sure, there should have been other methods used prior to sex to prevent conception, very few are 100% effective and until after the pregnancy test results are positive, many women don't know that the method being used is not effective.

If you can't imagine a situation that is bad enough to use abortion as a method to correct it, then you have lived a very sheltered life.

Don't take "you" as a a direct reference to yourself, it is actually directed to all who read this.
7 months ago: "it is not an individual yet. It has the potential to become one if allowed to continue to develop."

Genetics decide individuality. The baby/fetus is genetically unique.

BTW - Most abortions ARE for birth control. Some women abort so many times that later they can no longer carry a baby to term.

It's a sad day when folks make a choice that prevents a unique, developing life to be snuffed out because of convenience. That's just sick.

There needs to be more education to all the facts and the abortion rate would plummet. It's unfortunate that this money making machine of an industry will not allow that.

7 months ago: Six. Might not be a "medical procedure". But it's not unheard of the government requiring folks to "view" the gory details. Were they not requiring gory pictures to be plastered on every pack of cigarettes?

Will you say that in that usage it is OK?

To answer Huey. Most folks don't want to view the extracted tumor. They just want the Doctor to say all of it was removed.
7 months ago: I do not agree with the practice of forcing someone to view photos or listen to some horror in order to follow their desires.

Be like forcing someone to watch bloody videos of car crashes just to get your drivers liscense renewed.
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7 months ago: What is anyone's opinion on Stem Cell Research?
I've seen plenty of videos on that procedure which has made me sick.
There is great controversy over this.
If it takes the cells from an unborn fetus, and brutally from what I've seen,
how is this any different? Could someone write on this subject? I'm honestly interested.
7 months ago: Another Rant/Rave for that question.

Lots of medical research is unpleasant to watch being preformed. Shall we stop it all or will someone step up and be the judge of what is and isn't to be allowed? Will you?
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7 months ago: I believe, Six, that medical research has to move forward.
I don't think it should be at the expense of taking a life.
Doesn't seem right. Save a life by taking a life.
I just saw that they are growing live tissue in research labs. Who knows?
That's my point maybe there will be a way around it if they look hard enough, so, then we won't need anyone to be a judge of who has the right to live and who is less and can be wasted and thrown out. It will be for the good of mankind if they find another way.
Until then, we wait and argue it all.
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7 months ago: I think abortion to some may be easy because of the lack of the emotional ties. Some people aren't paternal anyway to begin with. If they lack that feeling for children, why would they care at all? They lack the instinct to love the unborn child; therefore, child doesn't have a chance. I don't believe in abortion. I hate when a child is unwanted. For most people, the child is loved from conception.
7 months ago: Those you speak of are rare. The ones with no feelings and children are not the only thing they have no feelings for.

Usually it takes time to become emotionally attached to a child, the instinct to unconditionally love something that you have yet to see is something that is not universal, not everyone has it. They have a desire to care for it, but other than that, only time will tell.

"For most people", since most people don't abort their offspring, that is a true statement. Only catch is, most people who desire children and make the effort to have them also have reason to love them from the start. Those who weren't "of a mind" to have children are not predisposed to love them when they come unexpected.

You disagree with abortion. Does that make it right to deny it to those who don't?
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7 months ago: Six ...I respect your opinions and comments just like everyone else who has one. Yes, most don't abort and most do love them. Quote: Those who weren't of a mind to have children are not predisposed to love them......" Look at the people who want kids so badly and want to give that love.
I don't know if you have children, but if you do, what is the first thing you feel when you are told that you are going to be a father. I would say excitement, antipation,joy, love for this new person. Those are real feelings that you would express for a new life.
When I see and hear the atrocities that are happening all over the map which are becoming more common where people are killing and murdering their offspring, things have gotten out of hand. I think when will it stop or will it get worse and more freely utilized. We don't own our kids, they only come through us;therefore, we have no right to condemn them to death. The only thing I can say about "Does that make it right to deny it to those who don't." I'm just talking here, Six. We have laws to protect the innocent and the vulnerable from being victims. These children can't fight for their lives but laws are made to equip society with the necessary laws in place to preserve it. I actually disagree when the little one has no voice, but we do, and it our duty.
7 months ago: We have four, two girls, two boys, youngest is 19.

Laws are tricky things. We try to protect everybody but sometimes we end up taking rights away from some while giving more rights to others. As a society, we have to "attempt" to make the laws fair to all. This is hard to do in a society that is supposed to be free of religion based laws and this subject is heavy on the religious zealots interference in the making of laws that govern the how, why and when. Since the general consensus is that 18 years is old enough to be considered an adult, the end subject of this discussion (the fertilized egg) has no vote or voice, only the women that it affects are allowed to speak for them. Changing the law so there are no abortions will remove those women's right to determine their own lives, forcing them to bear unwanted or rape babies as there can be zero exceptions except impending death of the mother, and even that one is questionable due to the rich being able to buy that diagnosis while the poor are left to full terms.

As an example of religious interference, our former governor denied ALL abortion requests that would have used money set aside for that purpose by the legislature and the medical program that is administrated by the state. Not one dime was spent during his tenure even though the law stated that it was an approved procedure when requested. His reasoning: It was against his religious beliefs so he wouldn't approve the expenditure and because the religious zealots wrote the law the way it was worded, he could legally force his religious beliefs upon all those women who requested state help.

Laws are tricky things, do we really want to mess with them? Look what happened to school prayer. Used to be an ok thing but some people wanted it to be a certain way, you know, just like THEIR religion did it, and they wanted everyone to be required to participate. What did they end up with? Forced religious freedom in public schools. No choice now. Of course you can still pray in public school, you just can't force everyone else to participate or allow it to interfere with those who aren't interested.
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7 months ago: Six ...Nice family. It is balanced well with 2 boys and 2 girls.
There are 4 in mine, also, but 3 to 1.
I agree the laws are tricky. The problem is that not all people are rational and have good judgment. Some people are ruthless and cruel and couldn't care less.
I am aware of the different issues and decisions woman have to make because I have seen it in my family. I saw my young cousin with 7 kids, when it came down to her life or the baby's life, they saved the baby. They followed their religion to make that decision. Her husband went on alone to try and raise those kids without a mother. It was very sad. I don't know how this can be resolved or what the answer is. I still feel that life, no matter how small is that light in the universe that is entitled to live. It is so precious. Then you have all the other issues that exist and have to be dealt with. It is a problem of great magnitude because of the different thinking and concepts. It is very political and a big money making scheme no matter which way you look at it. I think an 18-year-old is only interested in their own life and can be very selfish so how can they make a decision of life or death for a child. I think that age is too young. They can get themselves into trouble because they think it is cool at the time, and then toss the baby away along with their 18-year-old so called adult responsibilities to make decisions. That isn't right. I've seen that, too. There has to be a middle ground because of the masses of people and differences in opinion. I don't believe any child unwanted, or otherwise, when there is someone else out there willing to love and raise it should be condemed by the birth parents because of their own emotional trials. I'm thinking more towards the emotional problems that exist in today's society, and these are the ones mostly that I would not trust with decision making. With so many out there and our society today dealing with drug usage and cold-hearted killers, this subject is something that is not cut and dry. Sex is the most important thing to some age groups, and they are out of control, the last thing on their minds is bearing kids. Not fair for the unborn. I don't know how this can be resolved. In the end the mood of the population will create the laws governing this issue.
7 months ago: It's good to be zealous. We just need to be zealous about the right things.

There are plenty of folks out there that understand and acknowledge that when an abortion happens, human life is exterminated. They have this understanding regardless of gender, ethnicity, political affiliation, sexual orientation, etc. They know the scoop.

Again the issue transcends religion and politics. Transcends.

Unborn babies have no voice. They are defenseless. A mother's womb should not be seen as a place of danger. How sick of a society have we become?

Someone must step up and defend the unborn. If we don't, we end up in a situation like China or worse.

I'm all for keeping the government out of our bedrooms and out of our most personal of decisions. However when it comes to matters of life and death, if the gov't is going to be involved at all, I would rather that involvement should be on the side of life. Life of the mother. Life of the unborn child.

Abortion should not be seen as a legitimate escape hatch from situations that could have been avoided in the first place. PERIOD.

7 months ago: Think of it this way. I disagree with the bottled water concept, I really don't think people should be drinking so much of it since the water out of the tap (in the US) is perfectly good and if you don't like the taste or chemical additives you can filter it some more. I think it is wasteful and very harmful to the environment and to people's financial state, and to some, their mental state because they panic if they can't get it. It should be illegal to sell it in smaller than five gallon bottles that are reusable. Shall we outlaw it? Many don't see a problem with it, many don't care and many don't have a clue either way.
sunny2
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7 months ago: I see your point. Did you know if you freeze plastic bottles of drinking water it changes the chemicals in it which isn't good for you.
Did you ever drink the water from the tap in a few States when they tell you not to drink it when you visit their State?
That is why we have Leaders for those who don't give a darn about the environment or drinking water. Our reservoirs are very vulnerable to anyone who wants to damage the water. Great minds are aware and see it while the masses indulge in being carefree. Our Leaders are the ones that have to be on the watch and that is why they are elected to protect the ones that don't see the problem with it and don't care of have a clue.
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7 months ago: I think this world is getting pretty sad if those beautiful children's faces are no more. Or those wide-opened eyes won't see the light of day or have the precious gift of life that has been bestowed on us.
I loved mine from the first. Nothing has matched that feeling.
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7 months ago: Thank you, Huey. Ditto.
7 months ago: Generally speaking...

When is the last time you heard - "I executed my 4 month in-utero baby due to the fact that I did not feel my income was sufficient to support her."

Or

"My boyfriend and I agreed to have the baby destroyed and removed from my body because we never intended to have a child and this would just complicate things too much."

If you ever do hear statements like that, at least you would know you were dealing with honest people. Killers, yes. But honest.
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7 months ago: Huey this was on aol today:
Bridget Wismer allegedly tried to sell her newborn son, Christian, for $15,000 so she could take her other two children to Disney World.

Who tipped police off to the deal
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7 months ago: Huey they aren't honest people, they are just blatenly arrogant.
I don't believe in abortion, but you are dealing with a lot of different kinds of people. Like the one I just posted.
7 months ago: The reason I say they are honest Sunny, is because at least they admit that they are destroying life based upon their own selfish convenience.

There are other folks who faced with the exact same circumstances, take the exact same actions, and then try to absolve their consciences by acting like what they did was not morally reprehensible.
sunny2
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7 months ago: Imagine giving these kind of people a free reign to do whatever they wanted.
They can't make choices for themselves, let alone a child.
Something has to be done.

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