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Who Took Femininity Out of Feminism?

Posted 7 months ago|13 comments|456 views

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Femininity from Feminism , Feminism without Feminity , Feminine without Feminism , Feminism not Feminine , like man, or manlike

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Truthbrary

Feminism: is that like man... or manlike? Equal to doesn't have to be masculine does it" I heard a man say... "I like my women... WOMEN!" Does femininity somehow diminish a woman's equality to a man? Does a man's masculinity somehow diminish his equality to a woman? Just the other day I was flying back from Victoria after selling my bus, and my daughter and I had the "pleasure" of sitting just in front of a couple of career women, boasting the ground they have taken from men. I was interested and listened carefully (as if I had a choice) to their sacrifices on their way to the "top".

Both came from differing backgrounds, one from a law degree, the other political science... each to a similar present work in politics. As they described their boring (their words) duties in their prior works... before hitting the big-time, each declared it was hardly worth the "trip" ....as they compared horror stories and bashed men that stood in their way... I hoped my young daughter was listening to their gripping and the price each had to pay to be where they were today. One of the ladies stated that she "hated" our Premier's wife, because she had no aspiration to a career, thus sending women back a few hundred years! I doubt their menial tasks today are hardly the attraction they though they were in for... fantasy may have been a driving force to keep them steady on track.

As I listened to each perspective, I noticed that "love-life" wasn't mentioned... before you think that was a decision of tact, think again... each were as crude as you could imagine; anyway each seemed to console themselves with their own success... and I guess "success" is a matter of perspective. Each are by far greater in education than me, and each are greater in authority than me... yet there seemed a competition the loud conversation was nudging... a competition in an area that I myself had the edge... MASCULINITY. You see I needed nothing more than what I was born with, to give me that edge... so why did it seem they wanted to compete with any living male? What would that prove? With what greater good would that impact society?

Trust me, I wanted to say something to the ladies behind me on the plane, indoctrinating their immediate company... it made me understand how people must feel when I am preaching a point to someone less interested... and more determined to escape the shrill of my voice... well, it was something like that for me. I just couldn't wait to get off the plane and take my daughter with me... back to the loving feminine arms of my HOTTIE WIFE!
IF a picture is worth a thousand words; the one where both these ladies seeing me hook-up with my sweet wife carrying our new-born foster child was worth a lot more! As we embraced in family love and excitement that time apart can bring...
it didn't seem that a lonely career was much of a comfort.

So a special thanks out there to all the women that make equality something we can take for granted... however I would caution the "successful" ones though...
it is not your success that is intimidating to a man, it is just your masculinity!

UPDATE - 2 months ago

John Piper - "Don't waste your life"
http://dwynrhh6bluza.cloudfront.net/reso...

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Altruist
Eugene, OR

7 months ago: It is unfortunate that for a woman to succeed in business they have to be even more aggressive than the males they are competing with. They are placed in a position where if they look hot and sexy they are accused of using sex to get ahead, but if they are aggressive then they are ****y.

It is difficult for the women today, but it is getting better. More women are completing higher education than men, so in the future more may be hired to upper management and more important positions, because they are better qualified than the men.

Men are more aggressive but women adapt better to new situations. Women make better managers. Women make better leaders. Women invest more wisely. http://www.bnet.com/blog/business-books/...

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Truthbrary

7 months ago: Altruist,

I agree women in general are more cautious and that makes them better managers and more stable... great multi-taskers also makes them in-touch with other dimensions most men overlook. In general men are better risk-takers and more decisive when it comes to making those hard decisions... yet each group has their pros and cons and complement each other in the work force. What I am referring to is the loss of a woman's femininity (not necessarily ability to be sexy) that seems to have them trying to be men... instead of being women doing the same job (even better if you will). Power trippers in any gender loose my vote.

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Out Of The Box

Moderator

7 months ago: Equal but different. Why is that such a hard concept? Of course, there are going to be those women in which the familial instinct is not as strong, or even non-existent. The same thing goes equally for men.

One of the major setbacks to the feminist movement is the griping such as TB pointed out, and them trying to make women whom actually want a more traditional role feel like they are somehow less for not wanting to go out into the workforce. The women who want to do their best to raise their children and provide support for their working husbands are made to feel like they don't have a "real" purpose in life. Like they are missing out on something. Well, the career women are missing out on something also.

Everyone is different, and sexist generalizations just don't hold water.

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sunny2

7 months ago: I never was one to believe in the feminist movement.
I always worked and did my part and never questioned it. You have your ups and downs but basically it should be about living life.
Some men will say right in the beginning that they expect their wives to work to bring in another salary. What I disapprove of is woman not getting an equal opportunity to make the same salary as a man when they do a good job. I've worked for some of the worse woman managers in the world. They were plain stupid and the same goes for men managers and did not have the skills to manage anyone. Their egos get in the way, and they want importance of looking like they know what they are doing, when they don't because they are on a power trip.
You have a situation like this: A woman gets a job which is below her skill level and degree because of the economy. She's smart and educated and winds up being ignored and overlooked by managers and bosses who are mostly play a role and know nothing about the job or care about the people that are hired. They are lazy and can't do the job and push the work on the woman who has been running the whole show all along, but is not given the job when the manager is fired. All along the Manager will take the credit for everything done by the employee. When she has a chance to work in the same company with another person who asks for help with his work, and it is an opportunity to learn something worthwhile and new which benefits her because he recognizes her work. When she tells her boss, he steals it from her and brags to her that he is doing it. The only woman who get ahead are very smart. When all of this nonsense is over, you look at this as a learning experience, they move up and forward and find themselves in a good place with a high salary after changing jobs. Brains do count and they are to be congratulated for using them.
The only woman I knew on jobs where they had to be sexy and dress that way to get ahead were woman who were cougars and brainless and wound up with every boss in the company. It doesn't get them anywhere.
When a husband wants his wife to work and agrees to it, it is easier if they both work together and have goals.
If work and career get in the way of the marraige, then there are problems. With woman it has to do with educating themselves enough, to feel self-esteem about themselves. I know woman who are power woman who are in business and succeed, and they are married and have children and run their homes and do fine. I prefer ones own business then you avoid all the problems and can achieve as much as you want without being pushed around.

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Out Of The Box

Moderator

7 months ago: Thanks, Sunny. Nice to have a woman's input and perspective. You can't get that out of some book, especially one written by a man. Lol

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sunny2

7 months ago: I suppose, Box, I've been there over and over again.
I won't sugar coat anything when it comes to Corporate behavior. I always stood my ground. The larger the company, the more of a fight you have on your hands because the torture is dragged out by lower staff and higher staff to look good as if they are doing something for the company. The higher protocol gives orders to the lower management, and they coin the phrase "she/he is nobody" and then proceed to diminish that person, usually woman, especially if they show potential. In smaller companies you are dealing with cliques and egos, where woman who have been on the job for years, will undermine a new person coming in until they are out. I've been in companies where you work and work till you are dog tired and think you are doing something worthy, and a boss will turn and say "you are a brainless typist", or something to that affect or refer to women in one area of an office as the "cow pen." It's savage because there are many who aren't qualified, without experience, who see a person's job as a step up for them and feel they should have it. If you are lucky to have a good boss, which is rare, they see through it. I have found woman to be the worse in Corporate.

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Altruist
Eugene, OR

7 months ago: Good comments Sunny! I think that a lot of the successful businesswomen have to be superior to the men to get the same rewards.

The nature of the job determines the behavior. If women succeed in the cutthroat, ruthless, competitive business world, then she needs to have those qualities which are seen as unfeminine.

Men consider business to be like war and they read Musashi and Sun Tzu to learn how to be even more ruthless. Not very feminine, but women can be much more devious than men.

I think the nature of business needs to change. Instead of corporations being interested in nothing but profit, we need to have more of corporations which are more concerned with the well-being of the community and workers. In the future the qualities of a Bcorp might demand the nurturing qualities that come more naturally to women. http://www.newarkmetro.rutgers.edu/essay...

If the purpose of a corporation was to provide good jobs, a living wage, good health care, day care for children, apprenticeship and education to train new workers, inexpensive housing, etc. then a feminine and/or matronly demeanor would be more appropriate.

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sunny2

7 months ago: Al, Thank you. I've been there. This is why women who have that potential should take on the challenge of their own business. I don't believe there is a place for them in corporate unless they are as you describe. That's selling your soul. One day when corporate wants to get rid of them because of age descrimination or to save money on their pay, these people are hanging out on a cliff.
I worked for companys many years, and I've been aware of the problems women have out there. One boss I knew who had reached a certain age and contributed to the company for years had the title of Director. One by one I saw these high-powered women fall at about the age of 50. Some of this woman showed that nurturing side of them to protect the employees and tried to instill a program where the people at the top were more conscious of those on the bottom by approaching the little guy as being important and the actual glue that kept the company running. They were looking at them as the foundation of a well run company. It was going to be a complete reversal in an attempt to change the field of scope to thrive. Of course, these women were let go from their jobs shortly after. Nothing changed, and the company continued their old practices.
I don't trust any corporation. When a woman is smart and years pass, and she isn't making any headway, then she should go out on her own to achieve her goals. It isn't worth the battle. It takes a lot out of you and years are wasted until it is too late. I believe one would be much happier than looking back at the time that was wasted wishing and praying they will be recognized. Usually, they are nickeled and dimed the entire time when they pass a certain age. They have less to do. There is more than corporate in this world to succeed in a profession. The way this economy is going it is getting more ruthless.
I was raised in a business family from a very young age, and it was community based and geared to helping those around town. When I went into corporate, I was astonished how badly things were run. I was astonished at decisions that all turned out badly and were worthless, and yet these people were given big salaries and bonuses for it, and then moved on wrecking everything in their path.
I was floored that HR was purely for the good of the company, not the employee. I saw a lot of good people unfairly treated. When you have principles, it is the recognition of the worth and dignity of ever person. There are rules to follow, but nowadays that has fallen away to reveal cold-hearted practices. The laws and rules that people fought for have taken that hit. Companies from the small, medium, large aren't following the basic rules governing employees rights. I had a woman who graduated from the same school as I went to given a major position in my company. She didn't earn it. One day she called me down to show off her red power suit and huge office with windows and gave me a hard time. That was the day my job was outsourced. They sell out and in the end they get it back.

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sunny2

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sunny2

7 months ago: Truth it isn't so much as women appearing to be masculine because they have a head on their shoulders and have ambition to achieve in life. Their conversation seems to me was the only thing they had in common, and it is boring. These people could have gone to college and felt that they had a chance when they started out but look what they face. Their discussion was probably all pent up anger. Men usually find these women who are independent as threats and there goes the prospect of marraige out the window. I would never want to be subservient to any one just because I get married and have to play the role. It should be equal. Look at the women politicians out there who are relentless and will walk on anyone to get their way, and so do men. You do what you are born to do, only you have to have respect for yourself and others. This is a place where everyone should have an opportunity but something is lost in the translation. If a women wants to stay home and has that privelege, it is what she wants. When kids grow up and move out, it is hard on a woman. She can find herself thinking about what comes next and a harsh reality sets in. I believe what you said about woman competing with men that's from getting kicked around a lot and being stopped from getting ahead by men. It is all about character and being able to hold on to it. In the end, who you are as a person and what you practice is going to get you to where you want to go and where you belong..
Again, there aren't that many nice people out there anyway.

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Truthbrary

7 months ago: Sunny,

I too believe these women are smart, and maybe they have had a tough go... it is the illusive search for validation that some of these women are set on. Men take appreciation differently than women, and somewhat demand it... whereas women feel that they deserve it too, however are merely resentful when they don't get it. All in all we are different and need to accept those differences... it is when we can't be satisfied until we get what the other person has, is where it gets dicey. Being satisfied with who we are and what we have accomplished for ourselves, without constant comparison, will bring the contentment we need.

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sunny2

7 months ago: Very true...
I could never stand the drama.
If someone has talent, eventually that quality shows itself. It has to be where it belongs, otherwise it will go unappreciated.
Most people who are out to get the best of everyone are wantabees both men and woman and resent others.
I found them all to be very boring.

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Altruist
Eugene, OR

7 months ago: It is unfortunate but true that corporations discriminate in many ways. They judge women by looks and fire them when they age. They fire people when they get fat. They fire lots of people when they get close to retirement.

People should be judged by their abilities and skills. and paid accordingly. Women are still getting only 77 cents on a man's dollar. Lots of male managers are paid bundles of money when their secretaries do most of the work.

There is a lot of injustice in the corporate world. Sounds like they should organize and unionize to prevent inequality.

It used to be that 85% of the people actually made stuff and the other 15% were paper pushers. Now it is reversed and only 15% make anything and the other 85% are paper pushers.

During that transition, union membership went from 55% down to about 7% in the private sector. Why do just the workers that actually do something have unions? Shouldn't all of the paper pushers of the world also have union protection?

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sunny2

7 months ago: Al
The economy made it more difficult because people are dying for any kind of a job and employers know it. There is no fairest in the Corporate world.
There are too many of the big guys trying to look good and will step on anyone and will keep getting the gravy.
I don't like corporate. You left out that they fire people and harass them to death for being good workers, and they keep people down that have skills and are progressive. You can't win in that field. You have to play up to everyone to keep your job. I never would do that.

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