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What if you & I...........

Posted 25 months ago|43 comments|583 views
Written by
What if you & I are the targets of the next Holocaust?

I just read an Email that invoked that possibility. No it was not from a pessimist nor a fear monger, just someone who wants to keep the memory of the Holocaust alive. What inspired the question was this line taken from the message:

“Imagine yourself in a land where your countrymen followed the voice of political extremist who didn’t like your religion.” Wileyink@earthlink.net

We are there!

Think about it…… We as Christians are being slowly, methodically persecuted in this country. Our Rights have been eroded away. Our children are controlled, our guidance of them diminished. We, as employees, can no longer voice our Blessings or give a Wish of Merry Christmas. We are forbidden to display or make any reference of God in/on public land. The list goes on. We have only to open our eyes to see the parallels of the world today to the pre WW II world. How much closer will we get before we wake up?
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COMMENTS
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: As far as I know, Jon, there ain't really anything we personally can do about it. The fact that everyone is seeing it, indicates that we are indeed awake. As time rolls by, the writings of your namesake will continue to unfold, as they have been already unfolding. The only thing we can do is be ever watchful, and be always ready, and God's will will be done, despite the persecutions of the world. You will be asked, and then commanded to renounce your faith in Jesus Christ, and it will be decreed that all must worship a false god, and many Christians will be beheaded for their faith.

It's amazing that, all those years ago, John saw that the false religion that would take over the world was so fond of beheadings. More amazing, is that he saw it 500 years before the religion was even formed.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
25 months ago: Well, what makes you think that we are NOT, all around the world, in a racial, or financial and/or religious Holocaust?

We don't have a Hitler right now, but we have thousands of CORRUPT little tyrants in every government of the world.

We are in a mess and its not getting any better for a long time.

Genocides keeps popping up every once in a while. As if it were a new fad.

The people of the world, are suffering as never before.

The world climate and weather has changed and has caused thousands of lives or more.

We are having a hard time feeding our families. And more people are going to jail than ever before.

So, yes we are in trouble. Call it a Holocaust or call it a mess.

The end result is the same.

We have no way out and must let the end come helplessly.

Why? Because people are apathetic and are refusing to protest and fight for their constitutional rights.

WELCOME TO THE NEW HOLOCAUST.

THE RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: So you're comparing the holocaust to the Dominionist's difficulty in appropriating the power of our secular state to impose the political and religious agenda of conservative evangelical Christians?

In addition to being preposterous, it "diminishes and trivializes the extent of the Nazi regime's crimes against humanity and the murder of six million Jews and millions of others in the Holocaust."

How on earth do you compare the legality of placing proselyting religious symbols on public land with the holocaust?
25 months ago: OTB, I agree with you. Only it goes back more than a couple of thousand years. The Israelites did not become slaves overnight. Written history on the time period is scarce and what there is of it is only available to a few. IMHO most if not all of the true unbiased accounts were either destroyed, never documented or twisted into falsehoods. I once was a student of a minister that taught that we are the new Israelites. The longer that I live the more accurate his teachings become.
everthecynic
everthecynic
25 months ago: Classic evangelical victim mentality. Until your boss, your neighbor, the governator...whoever starts lining up evangelicals and their families, stripping them naked, shooting them and letting their lifeless bodies fall into a mass grave, then it's not even in the same chapter as what happened to millions of innocents before, during, after WWII. Yes I'm sure it's pretty bad for them, having to live in a world where their bandwagon hits a bump and several fall off, and don't wanna climb back on, but as Markbyrn said, how on earth do you compare?
Yes, times are extremely hard.
No, it won't get better for awhile.
Hold any belief system you want if it gives you comfort.
Pray about it if you want, but learn something from the pagans if you will...make sure you're asking your supreme being for the right thing. Let me elaborate, ask for him/her/it what to do rather than resting on your laurels and praying that your problem will get solved on it's own. That's a mistake many make...sitting around waiting for an answer instead of getting off your rear and looking for one. And last but not least.
Just don't try to cram what you think is right and proper down everyone's throat then play the victim when they spit it back.
25 months ago:
Markbyrn, do you think that there will never be another event such as the Holocaust? The Holocaust is not the subject of the comparison. I refer only to the events that led up to the the Holocaust. Those events are well documented. History shows that they have been and are being repeated again.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Jon,

The events leading up to the Holocaust you say?

In that case, perhaps you should read a book by the great Protestant reformer and German Christian, Martin Luther. It's called, "On the Jews and their lies" You can read many of the noxious and incendiary quotes at:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

And how did this book first published in 1543 influence the Nazi's?

"In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on the "Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther." The first physical violence against the Jews came on November 9-10 (1938) on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed. In Daniel Johah Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, he writes:

"One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol..and he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.'"

Lets also remember that Germany was a Christian states and state tax was collected to pay for the Christian Churches and the clergy.

There's also a timeline of events leading to the Holocuast at:

http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust/TIMELINE/nazifica.htm

and

http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust/TIMELINE/ghettos.htm

Perhaps you can tell me what the parallels are between people not wanting to be force fed evangelical Christianity at the behest of government to a German government law that required Jews ten years of age and older having to to wear the Star of David on armbands or pinned to the chest or back?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Markbyrn

Your statements are historically accurate, however irrelevant. In the days of Martin Luther, there was a tendency to blame the Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, in the same manner today that modern white people are blamed for slavery. As for Hitler, he was a madman.

To try and draw inferences from the actions of Hitler regarding Christianity as a whole would be the same as trying to hold you personally culpable for the enslavement of black people around the world. No, it would be even more of a stretch, due to the fact that Hitler had no offspring, and you might be descended from someone who was involved in slavery.

To try to hold all Christians responsible for the misdeeds of others which came long ago and far away is erroneous logic. But it will be a fact of life, that there are those of you who will try to blot Christianity out. And just about the time you think you will do it, Jesus will return with his army and defeat the army of Satan.

I know you try to think it is just a fairy tale, and that this is all there is. But I think somewhere inside, you wonder. But then again, maybe not.
25 months ago: Thank you Markbyrn for the additional references. Is there any difference in being "forced fed" to not display and being "forced fed" to display? The point is that our forefathers fought and died so that you & I could, without fear, display our beliefs. Now the sons and daughters of our founding fathers are being "forced fed" that they cannot display or offer good wishes of Christmas, as employees,and therefore are afraid of retributionjust as the people were leading up to and after the Holocaust. Have you ever heard the saying "Two wrongs do not make a right"? What happened before the Holocaust is just as wrong as what is happening now. Are you find vindication and rejoicing in what is happening now?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Jon,

It perfectly fine to debate the balance between freedom of religion, freedom from religion, and separation of Church and State. My concern was your use of gross hyperbole in comparing your alleged 'persecutions' to the holocaust (or events leading up to it) and you have yet to show any equivalency. As long as you're making holocaust comparisons, start backing it up with specific incidents of evangelicals being treated as Jews or other oppressed groups were before or during the Holocaust.

If your complaint is that you can't install proselytizing religious symbols on government property that we the people collectively own, or you can't proselytize your co-workers or subordinates while at work due to a company policy that prohibits divisive and unproductive work behavior, it don't wash.

As far as getting Merry Christmas wishes at Walmart, I think there's a tendency to hyper-sensitivity and political correctness, but why should you assume that every stranger you meet is a Christian and celebrates that holiday, or is it merely another opportunity to proselytize?

We don't need a law in this respect but do we do need mutual respect and that doesn't happen when somebody is hawking their god like a used car or demeaning other religions at every inopportune moment.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: OOTB,

I don't want to repeat our discussion from the the Hitler - Champion of Socialism topic but you're implying that Martin Luther's invective was restricted to that of calling out Jews as the crucifiers of Christ. That's not true and his calls for violence against the Jews were used by the Nazi's to perpetuate and intensify the anti-Semitic notions that Luther had pushed long forward. Quotes from Martin Luther:

Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:

First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...

Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...

Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...

Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it...

Most agree that Hitler was a madman but was not Martin Luther a madman who planted the seeds?
25 months ago: I agree that there should be mutual respect from everyone to everyone. To assume that someone is "hawking their god" when someone is bidding good will toward someone is truly an assumption on your part. For anyone to come to the United States of America,my country, through birth or immigration, and force their desires on me or anyone in my country including the guest of my country IS being grossly disrespectful to ALL.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: ...you're implying that Martin Luther's invective was restricted to that of calling out Jews as the crucifiers of Christ...

I did not mean to seem to imply that. Martin Luther had a misguided sense of loyalty to Jesus Christ, and suggested that man take on the retribution that belongs only to God. In this sense, yes he was insane. He failed to take into account that his own sins were equal in the sight of God to the sins of everyone else, including the Jews of old who advocated the death of Jesus.

He also failed to reason correctly that only a handful of Jews (long dead at the time of his writing) were involved in the death of Jesus, and that without the sacrifice of Jesus, Martin Luther himself would have had no redemption. Most importantly, he chose to ignore the scriptures that he fought to restore into the hands of the people, that clearly state that the Jews are God's chosen people.

The founders of all religious sects are given a small piece of inspiration, and try to build an entire mission upon that one small piece. That is why I abstain from any organized religion.

We see small pockets of this anti-Semitic phenomenon recur periodically, such as the recent grumblings after the release of Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ". Knowing human nature, I am inclined to believe in the possibility that these sentiments were known to be a likely occurrence, and could have possibly been the motive for the making of the film in the first place.

That's why I chose not to watch it, I don't need to be visually and musically indoctrinated with someone else's imaginative account.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Jon,

...For anyone to come to the United States of America, my country, through birth or immigration, and force their desires on me or anyone in my country including the guest of my country IS being grossly disrespectful to ALL...

I assume that admonition applies to yourself since you were born or immigrated here, or do you have special ownership rights? I was born here so it's my country
too.

...To assume that someone is "hawking their god" when someone is bidding good will...

I never made that assumption - you know what happens people assume. When I say hawking their god, I mean it literally. as in for example, a Mormon missionary comes to my door and endeavors to sell his religion to me. Of course he has a right to do that and I have a right to tell him that I don't subscribe to 'gods' that need to employ a sales force, and to politely tell him to get off my property. Free speech works both ways, doesn't it?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: OOTB,

Oddly enough, I can essentially concur with your last post but how do you define organized religion or better yet, how do you define a religion that is not organized and presumably one you subscribe to?

Of course it doesn't obviate the fact that the 'organized' religion of Martin Luther was a factor in planting the foundation of violent anti-Semitic behavior and to which the State of Germany (with an official state religion of Martin Luther's Christianity) would later carry out the persecution and extermination of Jews using Luther's own words as part of the propaganda in that effort.
25 months ago: Yes Markbyrn I do include myself amonst the by birth population. This Rant was inspired by my thought that we could be the next targeted group. Those who do not learn from history resign themselves to repeating the errors of past. My intent is not to promote one over another. My intent is only to make aware that we may be about to repeat a horrendous part of our history.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: What do you want Jon? A Christian State to enforce the mighty hand of God ala Islamic Fundamentalist style? Because Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world and that those who follow him would suffer persecution. So what do you want? I like a secular state that looks down on religion especially Christianity because Traditionally Christians have been very mean people to all their neighbors and a big dose of humble pie is what we need! What do you think? Sounds about right. Doesn’t it?
25 months ago: Not at all Siempre Solo. Live and let live, to a point. Should I stop wishing people well just because someone misunderstands my intentions and is offended? Are we to give up our belief in a forgiving, Loving God because someone doesn’t believe in God. Or even because another believes the one might be an infidel? Even thought those who do might believe that we should be put to death?

I digress; the subject is the possibility that we could be the next victims of genocide or worse.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: So you digressed and didn’t answer my question. Don’t you think that some humble pie in the form of persecution is what Christianity needs? Too many people can say they’re Christians but would do nothing to represent the faith if it came down to it. I think that Christianity is in trouble but in trouble from within. Nobody is chasing us. We are dismantling ourselves by getting involved in politics instead of being busy doing the Lords work.
25 months ago: Your question was answered.

So you want humble pie. Sounds like you are one of those persecutors that I refer to. You are right about the trouble from within if you are claiming to be Christian.

Be abusive and attack, is that not what you were trained to do?
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: So you flip the script and call me the problem ? From the Crusades to the modern times there have always been Christians persecuting someone else. Do you deny this? If you are a Christian then you have no choice but to admit this is part of our history. A history which is not in harmony with the words of Jesus. A major reason why so many Agnostics refuse to accept Christian Charity at face value. Because we deny our dark history and then we tell others that if they don’t change Jesus will burn them in hell for ever. That my dear rant raver is not nice. It is hypocrisy. It is a far cry from the light set atop of a hill that Jesus said his disciples aught to be. If you want power and strength you are not going to get it from the doctrines of Jesus. Jesus way led to the cross dude! It led to the cross. I expect nothing else but that! So what do you expect? Hum? Because you did not answer my question.
25 months ago: Do you blame all Christians for the sins of a few? Or is this more of your instructions? Why don’t answer my questions? Abusing & attacking does that make you feel better? Go ahead play the blame game. Your just exposing your true self.
25 months ago: “We as Christians are being slowly, methodically persecuted in this country.” By whom? Those that don’t agree with your ideas of how they should live their lives and are finally taking the initiative to stand up for THEIR rights to be free from YOUR beliefs?

How do you think they feel when everytime they do something that doesn't adhere to YOUR beliefs, they are riddiculed and belittled by the religious "fanatics"? Persecuted you say?
25 months ago: “Our Rights have been eroded away.” Since when? Your “kind” have been eroding my rights for as long as I can remember. I personally have lost my right to NOT have to drive 35 miles one way for the beverage of my choice. The religious fanatics voted this county dry while I was still too young to vote. You may think that is petty but I don’t see them driving 70 miles to buy a can of very addicting coffee or a case of soda. My right to clean air and decreased pollution and less wear and tear on my car is trumped by religious groups ganging up on the voting booth to force 100% of the adult population to travel outside the county to buy liquor. That is just one thing, there are many, many more that aren't as obviously religious based censuring of others rights or as wasteful of petroleum products.
25 months ago: “Our children are controlled, our guidance of them diminished.” HUH? No one, no city, state or federal government has taken your child away from you, you still have full control of them, full responsibility to guide them from baby to adulthood. But if you are like most religious adherents you forget that they become teenagers and start to rebel against the yoke you have saddled upon them without their asking for it. Sure it’s your job to instill in them a sense of right and wrong and to teach them, but it never was your job to force your religion upon them and in doing so, force it upon all around them. That is what you are wanting, the right to force your religion upon others by claiming that you only want to raise your children under your religious tenants and to do so, those around them must abide by them too or you complain that you’re right to raise your children as you see fit is being taken away. My advice, move to a commune.
25 months ago: No one, no government official, no law enforcement officer, not even a citizen can stop you from standing on the court house steps and saying a prayer, as long as you do it in a manner that does not block traffic, cause a disturbance, interrupt the proceedings or in any way appear to be for the purpose of forcing your religion upon another. No, you can’t set up your recruiting table there, no you can’t protest without a permit specifying what, when, where and why and HOW and if it appears that you will be preaching from the courthouse steps….. a big maybe. Yes there are limits about what you may and may not do on public property. The atheists can’t set up camp there anymore than religious groups can, neither can the KKK, Jews, the ACLU, Black Panthers, Muslims, Buddhist, or any one else that has an agenda that is not inline with the business that those buildings and grounds are set aside for. The rest of us are not paying taxes so your church group can gang up on the citizens and shame them into siding with their repressive ideas of what is and isn’t proper.
25 months ago: No one, no government official, no law enforcement officer, not even a citizen can stop you from standing on the court house steps and saying a prayer, as long as you do it in a manner that does not block traffic, cause a disturbance, interrupt the proceedings or in any way appear to be for the purpose of forcing your religion upon another. No, you can’t set up your recruiting table there, no you can’t protest without a permit specifying what, when, where and why and HOW and if it appears that you will be preaching from the courthouse steps….. a big maybe. Yes there are limits about what you may and may not do on public property. The atheists can’t set up camp there anymore than religious groups can, neither can the KKK, Jews, the ACLU, Black Panthers, Muslims, Buddhist, or any one else that has an agenda that is not inline with the business that those buildings and grounds are set aside for. The rest of us are not paying taxes so your church group can gang up on the citizens and shame them into siding with their repressive ideas of what is and isn’t proper.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: "And The Beast will wage
War with the saints for
Forty and two months and
He shall overcome them".
(Rev:13:7)

And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
(Revelation 13:15)

"And I saw the souls of
those beheaded for the
witness of JESUS who would
not worship the beast and
receive his mark on their
right hand and forhead."
(Rev:20:4)

"And I saw a great
multitude, greater than
any man could number come
out of the Great tribulation,
having washed their robes in
The Blood of The Lamb."
(Rev:7:14)
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: And actually, it's the leftist atheist do-gooders that are behind the prohibition movement.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Six,

Greats sets of posts - those are keepers.

25 months ago: OOTB, then or now? I seem to remember a lot about a Bible and an ax.

Thanks, mark, I get a word in every now and then.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Yeah, I was talking about now. We have covered this ground before though, in our discussions of the RJWF, which likes to get "grassroots" cover groups to pose as thumpers, and dry up wet counties.

http://www.rantrave.com/Rave/Truth-From-the-Grave.aspx
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: OOTB / Six

The following study, "Religion and the Demography of "Dry"Counties in the United States" can be found at:

http://tinyurl.com/ydu7ow3

To quote:

"Analyzing contemporary county-level data from over 3,000 U.S. counties, we find that the strongest factors associated with dry status are the religious composition of the county, especially the presence of Evangelical Protestants. Conversely, the presence of larger concentrations of Catholics is a powerful factor inhibiting the adoption of prohibition in a county."

Considering where the preponderance of dry counties are, is that really surprising to anybody? And to suggest that liberals giving to causes like MADD is somehow proof of being crypto-prohibitionists is amusing to say the least. The mission of Mothers Against Drunk Driving is to stop drunk driving, support the victims of this violent crime and prevent underage drinking.

Now are there members of MADD who are for prohibtion? Yes and we'd call them Rebiblicans. In fact, here's an article on the top 10 Republican Counties of 2008 in terms of smallest percentage of people voting for Obama. Not surprising, most all in Texas and half are dry.

http://tinyurl.com/yb6ebgj

OOTB, perhaps you give me a list of all the liberal Democrat blue counties that are dry? Maybe there's a few small towns in Massachusetts that are dry and mainly Dem but even than, I'd wager that the populous has a high concentration of religious teetotaling types.
trish
trish
West Fork, AR
25 months ago: markbyrn,you are the kinda of person that lives on being politacially correct all the time,you talk about religion separation,but you want 2 knock people of religion,how are you any different,then what you think you argueing for,you are basically stating that christians get upset about things being changed aggainst their christinity,isnt that what gays do about their right,people that want abortions & so on,as christians we have the right of freedom of religion but people like you throw a fit & fight aggainst our rights because its not what you beleive,what harm is it really doing 2 you,and what makes you better then us atleast we are announcing our beleifs,i think whatever u beleive in makes you threatned by christians,its really all about disagreeing about religion & not politics,and i think that if christians arent involved in politics,they will be very limited 2 spread the gospel in public& thats not freedom for us.
25 months ago: Trish, BINGO! There-in lies the big problem for me. You want to take your religion to the voting booth and ensure that certain concepts of your religion are incorporated into laws that EVERYONE has to abide by. That is not freedom FROM your religion. It is actually a slow method of ensuring that YOUR religion becomes law.

I have no problems with you basing your decisions upon your religious beliefs. I have a BIG problem being forced to base my decisions on YOUR beliefs. That is why I "knock" people of religion, they can not separate their beliefs from their vote, they think that because they believe it to be the proper path because their religion says so, that EVERYONE should have to follow that path BY LAW and some of them will go to any length to get a law passed that conforms to their religion.
trish
trish
West Fork, AR
25 months ago: well sixholdens i can agree that i wiil take my beleifs 2 the voting booth,dont you,we vote on our own beleifs,you may or may not have a religion,but almost everybody has some form of way of thinking & beleiving and we live by those beleifs ,even if were not christians.for my self i dont want laws changed for my own beleifs ,i want 2 keep laws that have already been made,its other people that have disagree ,only because its a christian beleif,not because its a bad law ,what are actual laws that make u disgusted with us?
25 months ago: It's when your religious beliefs conflict with my personal freedoms and you and your fellow religious adherents join together to pass or change or keep a law that is steeped in religious doctrine that I get peeved. Your desire to KEEP a bad law because it is good for you, says that you don’t care that it is bad for me, if all our law makers felt that way we would be in real trouble.

Right now, "blue laws" or in other language "anti-sin" laws really get my goat. They were not passed for public safety or anything other than to prevent the non-religious or other than Christian believers from doing something on Sunday that is legal on any other day of the week. Selling alcohol is one. Forcing bars to close on Sunday is another (they aren't the same law). There are more. Sunday is the Christian holy day, not the Jews or the Muslims, why do they have to adhere to Christian tenants in a country with religious freedom? Because the law was written by Christians who didn’t care if they were restricting the rights of fellow Americans, in their mind it was ok to take someone else’s rights away because it conformed to “their” religion.

25 months ago: Here is an example of religious interference in the law: Many decades ago the people of Arkansas passed a law against selling alcohol in each county unless each county held an election to be wet or dry. Within that law were provisions on how to circulate a petition to get a wet/dry vote back on the ballot at a later date. The number of signatures of registered voters required to get a dry vote on the ballot was less than half as large as the number of signatures required to get a wet vote on the ballot (can't remember the exact numbers but it was around 20% of registered voters for a dry vote and 45% of voters for a wet vote). How fair is that? To go from wet to dry took a lot less effort to get the opportunity to put the question to a vote than going from dry to wet. It stayed that way until just a few years ago (2006 I think). Mind you, that is just to get it on the ballot, you still have to get it passed one way or the other but the religious supporters of taking alcohol out of the county had to work a heck of a lot less than going the other way.

Why did nobody fight it? They did. It just took 60 or 70 years to get people to speak up, they would rather "pretend" they didn't drink so didn't care if the county was wet than admit to their neighbors that they did and would like to see the playing field leveled.
25 months ago:
Bad laws are ones that restrict another person’s freedom or that put an unnecessary burden on them while not restricting your own because your religious beliefs negate your desire to consume a legal product or do a certain activity. Forcing a person like me to drive 35 miles one way just to purchase the beverage of my choice because it is against YOUR religion to consume that beverage is wrong any way you slice it. Public safety does not come into this in any way, shape or form. I know you MAY want it to but this is a question of religious interference in the lives of people not of that religious mind set. This is hypothetical/factual discussion, not an attack or condemnation of your beliefs.
25 months ago: Trish, re-read you post and thought I should say this. You asked if I took my beliefs to the voting booth and of course I must answer yes I do. I like to think that I weigh the consequences of the effect of my vote upon others before I cast it. Is my vote a vote to take away someone else’s right? Am I forcing someone else to spend money that does not need to be spent? Am I just helping clutter up the courts with victimless crimes? Why does the other side of this issue feel the way they do and should I be on that side instead? Does my vote infringe upon someone else’s religious freedom because it helps enact MY religious beliefs into law?

They recently voted to allow Bingo for money in my state. I voted against it. Why? Because the very same people who wanted Bingo are the very same people who vote against legalized gambling every time it comes up on the ballot. They fight very hard against it, yet they voted to allow it (Bingo) so that their religious organizations can profit from it. Do you see the contradiction? They want to gamble in their houses of worship yet they deny others the opportunity to gamble outside of them. And no, it doesn’t matter if you think gambling is right or wrong, what matters is the hypocrisy of the whole issue.

We did finally get a statewide lottery. Times are changing, but I doubt I’ll live long enough to get a beer at the corner store in this county; it is way overloaded with hypocrites and no, moving is not an option, can’t dig up the land and take it with me.
24 months ago: sixholdens, evendently you are a minority already when it comes to voters. What are you going to do in 15 to twenty years when, acording to the experts, white population will be the minority race in this country? You think it is dry where you are now, Just wait till the new majority is of voting age! Who do they predict will be the new majority? I will give you a hint there birth rate is 8.7 in the USA & Canada. In Europe they will be the majority in just six years. So quit your ****in about about the Christian majority that did not vote your way and wake up! Guess who will be the controlling population will be? You will not be happy. Acording to the census bureau majority will be made up of that middle eastern group that believes that all infidels........ Now go ahead **** about not having alcohol available, but please take it to another rant. The rest of you who want to bicker amongst your selves adiouse amigos. Anyone staying?

For those of you who want to ponder the subject at hand I repeat the topic:

“Imagine yourself in a land where your countrymen followed the voice of political extremist who didn’t like your religion.” Wileyink@earthlink.net

We are there!

Think about it…… We as Christians are being slowly, methodically persecuted in this country. Our Rights have been eroded away. Our children are controlled, our guidance of them diminished. We, as employees, can no longer voice our Blessings or give a Wish of Merry Christmas. We are forbidden to display or make any reference of God in/on public land. The list goes on. We have only to open our eyes to see the parallels of the world today to the pre WW II world. And now we are being displaced by people that swears to be our enimy. How much closer will we get before we wake up?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
24 months ago: ...What are you going to do in 15 to twenty years when, according to the experts, white population will be the minority race in this country?...So quit your ****in about about the Christian majority that did not vote your way and wake up! Guess who will be the controlling population will be? You will not be happy....Think about it...

Fascinating! I didn't realize Christianity was the religion of the whites.
24 months ago: Your right Markbyrn, sorry that I lost my focus.

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