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We Want to Indoctrinate our Teens

Posted 5 months ago|37 comments|359 views
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On the tails of Truthbrary's RantRave "We want to 'indoctrinate children'" I have a further rant. I'm motivated to the subject because our children face the same emotional turmoil we confronted. And it isn't going to get easier for the next generation, either. Kids and teens get guidance from adults who create an educational system. This difficult issue of sex and education has happened in every culture, from the Plains Indians to Iran's version of democracy. Young grow up. Their culture indoctrinates and educates them into how to get along in their culture. Someplace along their growing path sex happens and their culture continues.

One of the issues has always been sex and we shouldn't expect that to disappear into thin air just because we have modern technology. My point here is this. Why don't we take a look around and find cultures that work pretty well in this area that Truthbrary rants about. And then copy those effective ways into our own culture.

This method of copying what works is done with technology and government and other things. China and Japan both reverse engineer products, technological products. With government and big business support, both countries take a piece of working technology and find how it works. And then they build the thing themselves. Democracy, the most common form of government today, originated in Greece, was refined in America and has been widely is copied. It more or less works, certainly better than dictatorships. People copy successful things. I propose we find a culture whose sex indoctrination or education actually works. And copy the things that work.

Fine idea, hey? But here is the problem with this idea. How do recognize good sex education? How can we look at a country or culture and see that its sex education works? What measurement can compare one country against another?

Teen births, sexually transmitted disease, and abortion rates, mental diseases spawning from early sexual experiences, child sexual abuse, quantity of young unmarried mothers, and early marriages that don't last, are indicators. All of these can be compared from one country to the next country if good statistics are kept. Good education might minimize all of these while poor education would have the opposite effect.

It is beyond the scope of this article to study these statistics. But it could make quite a good college paper. What I do have for you is a young reporter's statement. "European policies and programs have dramatically lowered teen birth, sexually transmitted disease and abortion rates." Melissa Harris is speaking of the period of time from 1968 to 2002, just after living and traveling in Europe for six months. Her article cites specific countries, gives some of its history and documented improvements. About The Netherlands she says: "In fact, parents were often among the first people Dutch children told when they became sexually active." She was speaking of Dutch teens, if you read her article the context is clear.

But wherever we have open dialogue between teens and adults, we have a better situation. Because the opposite of good communication with parents is bad communication, hidden and secreted teen actions. In America if a teen becomes pregnant, it is pretty much expected that someone be blamed and possibly punished. But ongoing communication with parents is an important indicator, but many things together make up a culture's attitude. The European system educates teens so they behave more responsibly. Blame and punishment are not part of the equation instead; a widespread and more wholesome communication exists.

A case in point that I know very well; a college freshman became pregnant, confessed in tears to mommy, and after a lot of emotional turmoil, had a secret abortion. If you have chatted on the Internet you have probably encountered similar situations. The solution I ask you to look at is at cultures that work. Where teen pregnancies are much less common, where there is a sunnier approach to sex education. So please, read the article and make a comment. Sex Education in Europe vs the United States
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5 months ago: Dude, the total birthrate in Europe has been negative for a very long time. It is not just the teens. Europe is losing its population everyday. Well at least in certain groups. I hear there is now a mosque on every corner.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
5 months ago: Very good post!

Ignorance is costly. Isn't it interesting that the attempts to regulate morals and restrict sexual activity have the opposite effect?

There are 7 billion people in the world now, and the earth is only capable of sustaining 2-3 billion indefinitely. The countries with the highest birth rates are those that are least capable and can least afford all of those new mouths to feed. A big reason for that is ignorance. Women have kids because they don't know about birth control methods. Men spread HIV and Aids because of ignorance. They think they can cure their Aids by raping virgins so they rape children who then get pregnant but their bodies are not old enough to handle birth, so when the baby comes it tears the young girl apart and these poor children are left with fistula, with a baby, and with aids.

A lot of that is the result of the abstinence only programs of the US, that forbade any aid money that was used for education or contraceptives. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/12/13/80...
5 months ago: Thank you, Altruist.
Abstinence only teaches that abstaining from sex is the only solution and it teaches that and only that. It doesn't include information about AIDS or sexually transmitted diseases. It doesn't include information about condoms and birth control. It isn't a complete education. It is more like, "Don't go there!" This, you see, is more a police type information than an education. It is more like someone standing in a teen's path, holding a stop sign and waving their arms, than a real education. Government money has supported this type of education for more than 20 years. Wikipedia doesn't think it is effective. Statistics show it is undesirable.

Against professional opinion and contrary to citizen's desires, schools must teach abstinence only, or not receive certain kinds of federal money. It sucks; if a school teaches broad sexual education, that school does not get some of the federal money that abstinence only schools get.
5 months ago: The complete education needs to come from the parents, not the state or the federal government. Unfortunately many have abdicated that responsibility to so we get anything goes education being taught in schools.

Our young people are being taught to live like animals. The natural outcome of which is rampant and irresponsible sexual relations among our people, along with diseases of the body and mind that are seemingly incurable. It's no wonder the suicide and murder rates are through the roof among them.

Abstinence programs do in fact work, when they are worked properly. Contrary to the opinion of some, topics like birth control (from condoms and pills, to blood clots, cancer and unwanted pregnancy), STDs, the medical and psychological ramifications of abortion, the destruction of the nuclear family and societal consequences, should all be included and taught in proper context in those programs.

I am not naive and I do not believe that abstinence is the only solution. However abstinence is the BEST SOLUTION.

http://rantrave.com/Rant/Why-Sex-Educati...
It is the best solution to preventing unwanted pregnancy, STDs, failed relationships, and a litany of other psychological and physiological and societal traumas and ills.

We need responsible and disciplined adults who do wave their hands in front of the young people and admonish them to slow down. Help them to grow up and be responsible in all aspects of their lives.

The young people need to be taught. They need to be taught to treat sex as something special, that requires great discipline and responsibility to handle properly. That it is something where you wait, not run into it. Where when you experience it is not just meaningless and careless recreation. Remeber we are talking about our youth. Anyone who falls for that bait of Satan will pay the price.

This culture in America seeks to sexually exploit and use our young people to its own end. They want to strip their innocence and get them out there as soon as possible. Any person with a brain has to acknowledge that and any parent who just allows that to happen to their kids is sleep, stupid or both.
5 months ago: "In America if a teen becomes pregnant, it is pretty much expected that someone be blamed and possibly punished."

Blame and responsibility can be two different things. There is an aspect where that young person (or better) those young people be held responsible. Abortions should not be seen a simple things or simple solutions.

Also, eugenics should not be seen as solution to population control in civilized cultures. Nor should it be arrogantly foisted upon those who others deem "uncivilized." Education on all fronts is necessary.
Teaching abstinence, teaching and training our young people to wait, having virginity for young people looked upon as something normal and to be expected and accepted is the way to go. That is by far the best solution to our problem.
"But ongoing communication with parents is an important indicator, but many things together make up a culture's attitude."
True. The on-going and open, honest, dialogue between parents and their kids are the key success factors in generating healthy young people. In raising kids who are responsible and have the self discipline and self-esteem to handle their lives responsibly.

We, as responsible adults, must give them the ability and tools to approach serious subjects and serious choices with serious understanding and responsible decision making. That's our job.

When information is hidden and topics shunned rather than addressed it's no wonder we end up young and adult sexual deviants who exhibit no self control and who eat away at the basic supports of our families, society, and culture.

When the home breaks down; when mommy and daddy don't do what they have to do to have a successful and happy home; when they break the rules and show no discipline, morals, or common sense, baby is in trouble.

5 months ago: BTW - Terryeo - I love the picture you chose for this piece. Beautiful.
5 months ago: Excellent post!

There are difficulties with the entire concept as there are so many different opinions in what constitutes a better method or indicators of success. Huey very clearly and comprehensively presents his position, that is shared by many, but not everyone. Other would hold that a well-educated teen who has a comprehensive understanding of the issues, biology, and potential consequences and makes rational decisions is an indicator of success.

I do agree with Huey that parents need to be involved, however, too often, parents aren't equipped to lead a comprehensive discussion as they often don't have the information needed.

I believe young people need 3 things to become sexually healthy individuals:

1. Objective, comprehensive, varied information that covers a variety of perspectives and is as broad as possible.

2. Moral definition and perspective. This is something that needs to come from parents and family members.

3. A loving, accepting, and forgiving environment that helps ensure the young teen that they will always be accepted and loved, even if they make choices that are not always consistent with others' expectations.

If we could get to this place, we would be a lot better off than we are today.
5 months ago: Nice input. I follow where you are coming from.

As to the parents not having the information, then they need to educate themselves. When you bring children into this world it's a whole new ball game. Any parent worth his or her salt should be CONSTANTLY educating themselves on how to love, communicate with and nurture their children.

It's unfortunate that we have those who do not. It's also unfortunate that when they then turn their kids over to the sex ed programs of the public schools we end up with young people who are lied to and duped. The kids many times end up confused about their sexuality, develop sicknesses in their bodies and minds, and live morally depraved and narcissistic lives. Makes for a lost generation.

Again, parents need to wake up to what's going on. If we don't raise our kids, you better believe someone or something else will. That's not a good thing.
5 months ago: Don't take it wrong Huey.

My grandmother always said...

You raise corn, chickens, pigs and cows...

You rear children...

Maybe we are too busy raising the kids like vegetables and livestock instead of rearing them.
5 months ago: TCG - I like that point. That's a fine way to put it.

Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
5 months ago: In an ideal world every child would have two parents that were educated and who could instill the moral fiber and information necessary.

Unfortunately few families have these ideal conditions and the kids, driven by hormones and teen age insecurity, often experiment and trade sexual favors for popularity. In most situations it becomes the responsibility of the schools acting in Loco Parentis to transmit the sexual education and moral guidance that is lacking at home.

Abstinence Only is foolish. Telling kids that sex is bad and that they need to wait till marriage doesn't work, and there is no evidence that knowledge and access to birth control and condoms, promotes promiscuity. In fact the reverse is true. When kids understand the consequences of their actions they are more liable to act responsibly.

As Terryeo has pointed out, we already, we know what works and what doesn't. Having intelligent open discussions and public sex education allows young people to behave much more responsibly, as they do in Europe and the Scandinavian countries. Likewise nations like ours, where sex and talk about it is repressed ends up with much more promiscuity, pregnancy, and social diseases.

Another aspect is that of sexual equality. In repressive societies the women are treated as commodities and rape is common. Women are not allowed to learn anything or to use contraceptives. The results are disastrous. In open societies where women are treated as equals, they are much more likely to act responsibly and to have fewer children, less disease etc.

There is also an economic aspect of the entire question. In poverty ridden countries like Africa, where ignorance and superstition runs rampant birth rates are way too high and the death rates of children are also way too high because they cannot afford food or medical care.

On the other hand, as nations develop and form an educated middle class where the basic needs are met, birth rates naturally go down, promiscuity is decreased as are STD's. Therefore it seems logical that if people are concerned about all of the immoral behavior, that we concentrate on increasing education, improving social conditions, and promoting sexual equality and human rights.
5 months ago: Al? Did this really come out of your mouth? You say...

In an ideal world every child would have two parents that were educated and who could instill the moral fiber and information necessary.

Please tell the world what you consider the appropriate level of education that will help instill moral fiber.

I'm sure both of your parents were PhDs.....

You looking to curtail population growth to those that you consider to be educated?

Sounds like your promoting "Jim Crow" to me.
5 months ago: I love this post! I think that Americans have such a warped view of sex. My sociology classes in college taught me about something called the "Madonna/Whore Dichotomy." This is the concept that is generally applied to women, but I think it is generally applicable for the purposes of this discussion. As the theory goes, an individual is expected to be sexually "pure" and even naive, but is also supposed to enjoy sex, and be good at it-- behind closed doors of course.

This dichotomy is deeply troubling, and I argue that it is at the root of America's troubles regarding teen sex and STD's. The girl in the article told of her experience in Europe and how she saw things that shocked her. She reported being "very curious and a little disturbed." Is that not how most Americans grow up? While sex is so often on television and seems to be prevalence in US culture, the dichotomy persists. Sex is a common topic in US culture, but we are taught to be ashamed of our sexuality, and it is regarded as one big secret leaving youth to feel very curious and a little disturbed.

So many studies, including this article about Europe's sexuality, find that sex education is far more effective than abstinence only education. However, this is a constant fight in the US. We are far too worried about the moral implications involved with our teens learning about sex (never mind the fact that most 16 yr old kids already know about sex) and less focused on taking measures to fix the sexual problems of our society. It's a psychological issue.

Make sex less shameful, and we will see the number of pregnant teens and STD stats drop dramatically.
Content Removed by Huey Newton
5 months ago: "In most situations it becomes the responsibility of the schools acting in Loco Parentis to transmit the sexual education and moral guidance that is lacking at home."

And that is exactly why we have the disastrous results that we have today. We live in a society where many parents have abdicated their responsibilities and are letting the local school systems, social media and the children's peers raise them rather than the parents themselves rear them (Thanks TCG!).

No mystery we have the problems that we have. The adults are not doing their job and the government and local education system is leading the kids down the paths of destruction and death.

Abstinence needs to be taught in a context where the young people have all the information available. That includes information on birth control, STDs, risks and horrendous dangers of abortion, sexual abuse, all of it. That way the young person will have a better handle on the potential damaging and life changing consequences of having recreational sex.

The kids need to be taught to delay gratification and have self control. Big picture thinking, not what makes me feel good right now but WHAT IS BEST FOR MY FUTURE regardless of what my teacher thinks, the school system thinks, my buddy thinks, the pop star or sports hero thinks. The truth that the parent conveys should far outweigh any of that tripe. That's the ticket.

They are not just animals and they need not act like it. They should aspire to live better than that. Anyone can live a morally raggedy life. It takes a special individual with high self-esteem, conviction and guts to live above the mess of this world and above the ethical cesspool that society tries to drag them in to everyday.

The only folks who would fight against abstinence education being taught in schools and in the overall context of sexuality would be those who would endorse unrestrained sexual promiscuity amongst our young people. And there are plenty of those perverts out there. There is big money to be made in selling of the sexuality of and to our young people.

To say that our young people cannot control themselves is a LIE. It is to sell them down the river and leave them at the mercy of the moral relativists that would use, abuse and exploit them. What they need is to be loved. They need to be loved enough to be properly educated, communicated with, land held accountable. That should come first from mom and dad. Without question.

Unfortunately we live in a contemporary American society that does not even know what a family is anymore. In an effort to re-define what has already been perfectly defined we end up with a monster and not a family.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3hAPgQDXnlc/Sy...

The monster is a freakish thing that spits out confused, suicidal, and hopeless young people on one side and hedonistic, narcissistic kids who thinks the world revolves around them and their pleasure and convenience on the other.

Both are products of the influence of the monster not products of the influence of a true, healthy family. A family where the young people are actually nurtured and taught discipline and responsibility from day one.

"Telling kids that sex is bad and that they need to wait till marriage doesn't work" You've got that half way right.

Sex is a beautiful expression that two committed individuals share with each exclusively in covenant relationship. Outside of that it is cheapened and polluted.

Sex is a wonderful expression and folks SHOULD wait for marriage. That way there are zero problems with STDs and ZERO unwanted pregnancies. That is the ideal. Anyone who shoots for less t
5 months ago: Continued....

Sex is a wonderful expression and folks SHOULD wait for marriage. That way there are zero problems with STDs and ZERO unwanted pregnancies. That is the ideal. Anyone who shoots for less than that is irrational at best or just plain dumb.

I know some don't like that, but that works. So stop lying saying it doesn't or it can't. It's worked in my life. There are plenty of other examples out there where it can be seen to work as well if folks would just take the blinders off.

Again those who fight to have no abstinence education taught at all are the same ones who want to warp and exploit and use our children to their own insidious ends. Any parent who sits by and allows that to happen is a fool.

Some others may want to sleep around and play house. It's their life and that's their prerogative, but that is not the best situation by any stretch of the imagination and we have the fallout in this society to prove it.

When our young people see sex as something dirty or bad, that warps their brains. It also warps their brains when "grown-ups" teach them to have sex as much as they like just make sure they take the pills (blood clots and breast cancer anyone?) or put a rubber on it (pop goes the weasel). And of course "if you get knocked up, just flush the baby. It's a simple and totally harmless procedure." Those are lies people and they come from the father of it.

Give kids all the facts at home. Everything. Teach them to be responsible and make responsible choices. Help them to understand that you just don't do things because they feel good. Sexuality is an extremely important part of everyone's make up. It needs to be honored and respected, not degraded and seen as mindless recreation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fs5ziMI1...

Wake up people.
5 months ago: How does that over the counter emergengy contraception pill that juviniles can purchase work again? Strange that a juvinile can purchase a drug that is multiple times stronger than one that requires an adult to have a prescription from their Doctor. Last time I looked you couldn't even purchase a good over the counter cold medicine without being over 18 with valid I.D.
5 months ago: TCG – lots of these folks don't care about the kids. They want them to have access to the "morning after" pill but don't want to teach them to keep their pants up and expect them to do it.

What kind of madness is that?
5 months ago: Huey, I like the way you put it. I completely agree that parents have dropped the ball when it comes to educating their children on these matters. Kids should have all the information available and THEN be encouraged by their parents to wait.

TCG- Juveniles SHOULD be able to purchase the "morning after pill." However, I think the law currently requires them to be 18, though there has been talk of lowering the age limit. The law set age 16 as the "age of consent." The age at which a child is deemed old enough to be able to consent to sex. If a person is old enough to have sex, don't you think they ought to be old enough to prevent a pregnancy? That isn't to say I advocate 16 year old kids engaging in sexual activity, but the fact of the matter is that it happens. Wouldn't you agree that there should be preventative measures available to those kids? Of course there are always forms of contraceptive that don't require pharmaceuticals, but those can fail. And kids should have access to a back-up plan. I find this to be preferable over an unwanted pregnancy and the options and hardships that accompany such a situation.
5 months ago: SugarPop. That is archaic and you know it. The age of consent set as 16 was dated when?

While your at it using that logic....

16 year olds should...

Vote,
Purchase Alcohol,
Purchase Cigarettes,
Purchase Prescripitons...
that are prescribed by the Doctor of their 16 year experience,
Pay taxes,
Pay for a car,
Pay for a home,
Pay for utilities,
Pay for food,
Pay for insurance,
Pay for school,
Pay for......

How many 16 year olds could handle that?

And you want them to make decisions about aborting something that was probably a mistake by their 16 year old brain?

Maybe you should think about rearing your 16 year old instead of shipping them off the the farmers market for life experience.
4 months ago: You're kidding me right? Since when does being deemed old enought to consent to sex have any relation to being mature enough to vote, pay for a home, etc.? Slippery slope fallacy.

Setting the age of consent at 16 is fairly recent in a lot of cases. It used to be much younger.
5 months ago: "Kids should have all the information available and THEN be encouraged by their parents to wait."

I can appreciate the sentiment Sugar Pop. I am glad you are with that. You are wiser than most.

However, with regard to the "morning after pill", I would like to know why you think such a powerful and dangerous drug should be readily available to young people?

That pill is designed for paranoid folks who have unprotected sex. The ones who take it, have no idea as to whether they will become pregnant or not. They are scared and they have not even given themselves time to think. They are so scared they are willing to risk their lives to prevent something that may never even occur in the first place.

The whole situation would not even be an issue if they had used their brain and considered the true ramifications of what they are doing THE NIGHT BEFORE rather than looking to do damage control the morning after.

Seriously. Think about the psychology and the thought process behind that. I'm talking about our kids. Our young people. Our future leaders.

The grown-ups should know better. I don't feel sorry for them. For them it's just pretty damn sad that they don't know any better.
5 months ago: "Juveniles SHOULD be able to purchase the "morning after pill."

Sugar Pop – again, are you really sticking to this position? Did you read the list of side effects I posted?

http://www.morningafterpill.org/is-emerg...

I really want to know why think THIS particular form of birth control would okay to dispense to children.
4 months ago: You're completely right, Huey. The morning afterpill can have harmful side effects, just like any other form of birht control. And I'm not entirely comfortable with it being available over the counter, to adults or teens. It would be wise to consult a doctor and be made aware of the possbile risks, as with any other medication. That said, yes firmly believe that minors should have access to the pill. Again, a doctor should probably be consulted, and regular use would be unwise.

You know what is dangerous? Giving birth. Teens giving birth is EXTREMELY dangerous. If you look up the stats, deaths resulting from childbirth are a far more likely possibility than death resulting from use of contraceptive. Side effects are a danger with any medication, which is why it is important to look at the facts and make an informed decision. It is also very necessary to way the risks of the medication against the risk of inaction. Is it really safer for a teenager to become pregnant and risk childbirth and avoid contraception? Additionally, having a teenage mother poses health risks to an unborn child. Take a look at theese stats.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/professional...

Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
5 months ago: What people fail to realize is that teen pregnancy and STD rates are a direct reflection of society as a whole.

STD rates are on the rise again, with young people accounting for more than half of all new cases. Apologists and agendaists would like to blame abstinence only programs, and would never even consider blaming the ones who are openly promoting wanton and risky sexual activity.

The music industry has gone buck wild with it, promoting sex with all the glitz and glamor hollywood can muster, music videos make it look so darn fun, and never touch on the downside, the heartache, disease, and broken dreams that result. I would say that over 95% of the teenie bop music is sexually related.

Young girls are being trained that in order to be cool they have to present themselves as sexual beings, and guys are being trained that girls are objects of physical gratification.

I was at the skating rink in our small, predominately Christian town last weekend. I noticed that a lot of the songs they played had a lot of words edited out. Then about halfway through the evening, after the races and contests, all the kids customarily took their skates off, and gathered center rink for the dancing portion of the evening. Monkey Swang was one of the milder songs, and I had to look away, I felt dirty just being there. When you have a troop of young girls, age seven to seventeen, letting everyone see how well they can make their monkey swang, it's disheartening. Especially when the guy's voice coming out of the loudspeaker is egging them on.

Thankfully, my daughters so far have listened to me, because I make sure I talk to them often and have drowned out most of the outside influence. When my youngest goes out (9), I'm right there with her. That way when she is "curious and slightly disturbed", I'm right there to answer any questions she might have.
5 months ago: Check these out.

http://www.morningafterpill.org/is-emerg...
The Truth About the Morning After Pill

http://www.yazsideeffectslawsuit.com/
Yaz Side Effects

Now, do you honestly think that this information is being given to young people? Do you really think the folks at Planned Parenthood and the like, or the local school Health/Sex education class is giving out all this very important and pertinent information? No way, Jose.

Contrary to the opinion of some, young people need to be taught to cherish their virginity and not look at it as a curse as they become older. It not to be taken lightly and should not be thrown in the toilet like a used tissue.

http://cfocstore.aosoft.com/Merchant2/gr...

Many kids are being forced to grow up and experience things at a pace that many of them simply cannot handle. They are not getting the guidance at home and they are being misdirected by the education system and society as a whole. There are plenty of predators out there that are just waiting and looking for opportunities to abuse, exploit and eat our young people up.

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.co...

Self-disciplined, responsible adults who are secure and disciplined in their own sexuality, who actually step up to the plate are their best examples and best defense.

Every responsible adult who reads this should look for teachable moments in the lives of their kids and family. The issue is too important to be asleep at the wheel. We must advocate for our children and family first, but we must not be afraid to speak out in public either.

Also if we talk it, we have to walk it. A parent who has multiple sexual partners cannot realistically expect the children to have sexual self control nor should they expect that. It takes guts and determination for the parents and guardians of these kids to practice it if they are going to teach it.

Success is possible but it's not going to just happen by dispensing information. More than that is required.

Consistency in our lifestyle as well as teaching what one lives and knows to be best is what programs the youth for success in this very important area. Sloppy living leads to sloppy results.

These kids need our love, help and support rather than our making excuses for our lack of educating them in all the truth, and then our making more excuses for their lack of discipline and self-control.

We just can't look the other way and pretend these dangers are not present and let the young folks continue to lead lives that will inevitably end up off the tracks.

If we do that, than it would be better off that we were not even on the same planet with them.
5 months ago: We tend to post our personal opinions and defend our personal opinions. This is one of the great elements of Rant Rave's format. I, for one, am glad to see thoughtful points of view posted on this important issue. As you know, a whole culture's attitude is really founded on individual opinion.

Mellisa Harris' article, Sex Education in Europe vs the United States tells how she is astounded how European parents communicate freely with their children about the subject but also, goes much further. Ads appear in public for birth control materials and government money supports the ads. Schools teach the subject with an eye toward teens understanding all there is to know about the subject. Condoms are available in machines, the only restrictions for various birth control pills are for heath reasons, not controlling reasons. The whole attitude of the culture treats sex and its results as a subject to discuss, to talk about, to understand and live with. Rather than a unreasonably significant, shameful, or suppressed activity. Educational institutions could make significant progress in this area. And it would help if our State and Federal Congresspersons would remove the stuck-in-yesterday laws about that!
5 months ago: TO - Just curious - what do you mean by "unresonably" significant with reagrd to the sexual activity of minors? And also, what stuck-in-yesterday laws would you have our State and Federal Congresspersons remove?

Thanks.
5 months ago: The stuck-in-yesterday laws just mentioned about abstinence only education. Where grant federal money goes to schools that teach abstinence only sex education, and do not give a teen the broader education needed to live as an adult. Modern biotechnology has given is a range of birth control methods, in addition there is real world information about venereal disease that any adult should know about. In addition to the federal grant requirements, some states have impractical laws about what can and can not be done in the privacy of the bedroom.

By "unreasonably significant" I am interpreting Mellisa Harris' article. In the USA we have an impractical attitude about teen sex education. But in Europe the culture has a more practical attitude about it. We adults think of sex with a certain amount of significance, but our thinking is based on experience and a broad range of information. Teens, on the other hand, do not have our information and do not have our experiences and yet, we expect they how significant sex is to a human being in his daily life. This is not practical. A teen sees adults eating cake and his school tells him he must abstain from eating cake and gives him no other information about eating cake. So, for the teen, eating cake takes on an unreasonable significance. He doesn't have the information he needs to give it a reasonable significance. And when parents do not easily talk with him about cake, then where can he turn to find out how important, how significant it is in life, this eating cake? Without enough information sex (or cake eating) is unreasonably, that is, not appropriately significantized in the mind of the teen. What does he see on TV? Well, he sees woman getting breast enhancements, he sees sexual appeal to many common TV ads. So he gets an unreasonable attitude about how significant sex is in the real world around him. What can we do? We can treat sex like we treat any subject and encourage good communication about it in home and at school.
5 months ago: Cool.

Let me absorb what U have stated and I will be back. Thx.
5 months ago: Hi TO - in re-reading your last comment I've gotten a better understanding of where you are coming from.

"We adults think of sex with a certain amount of significance, but our thinking is based on experience and a broad range of information. Teens, on the other hand, do not have our information and do not have our experiences and yet, we expect they how significant sex is to a human being in his daily life"

Correct. Teens do not have that information. To a large degree they are ignorant about certain facts and real life ramifications of certain attitudes and actions. That is exactly why they should be encouraged to WAIT rather than run headlong into sexual or even worse, multiple sexual relationships at their young age.

As far as the cake analogy, there are plenty of activities and interests that mature adults participate in that should be held off from minors. This should be done simply because the young people do not have the capacity to understand or appreciate the risks and responsibilities associated with participation in these activities. It would be more appropriate to wait. That is what should be encouraged rather than enablement and damage control.

Like TCG stated, voting, driving a car, buying alcohol and tobacco are all things certain adults choose to do but are off limits to minors. And SHOULD be. These activities could be seen as being cake as well.

The situation is not so much that they kids now place an unreasonable significance to having sex as much as they now need to be taught to delay gratification until they have enough information, discipline and maturity to handle the responsibility of making adult decisions.

Sexuality and sex are significant. They are an extremely significant and powerful part of every normal person's make-up and if more folks though of sex as being a significant versus trivial they would have far fewer problems in relation to it. Many moral failures with the family and amongst those who would play house come about because of not keeping sexual appetite disciplined and kept in proper perspective. If that were the case, there would be tremendous drop in STDs, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, family break-ups, sexual assaults, etc.

So, bottom line is many of these problems could be avoided entirely if more people associated a MORE SIGNIFICANT level of honor to sex and sexuality rather than seeing it as some base and animalistic form of physical gratification.

That education needs to come from home. Unfortunately, when it does not come to the youth from home first, we have to deal with the fall-out catastrophes that result when that education comes from the schools, the media, their peers and the streets.
4 months ago: Huey, I think you're missing the point. I think we can all agree that it is not a good idea for 16 yr old kids to have sex. However, I think the point TO is trying to make is that sex is so glamorized, and that image is readily available and even forced upon society. Yet we don't teach our kids WHY. We teach them that it's fun and great, but don't worry about it until you're older. Shouldn't we tell them why? Shouldn't we tell them that it's fun and great and that's WHY they should wait? Rather than introducing them to the idea and then brushing it under the rug. Americans spend a lot of time skirting the issue when time should be spent addressing it.

Let me emphasize that it would be best for teens to abstain. But we must provide them with the information. Society does place significance on sexual activity, yet fails to invite teens to understand why that is. And what is a teen to think when confronted with glamor of all the sex in the media, school, etc. added to their basic biological urges, and all adults can do is tell them not to worry about it. "You'll understand when you're older" will not suffice. That method has clearly failed. And in doing so, we fail our kids.
4 months ago: "Huey, I think you're missing the point."

Not at all. I've nailed it here repeatedly.

Young people need to be given the information and empowered to abstain. Period.

There are far too many people making excuses and encouraging the kids in poor decision making and than selling them out to the abortionists and the pharmaceutical industry. Not to mention the adult perverts that are out there stalking our teens and pre-teens. All these parties have a vested interest in seeing to it that our young folks are out there screwing around.

Young people should be taught to keep their zippers zipped and their pants up. Not only that, there need to be like-minded and disciplined adults who set the proper example and then holds these kids accountable. The "whys' I have broken down earlier but will do so again.

The benefits of a closed, committed relationship far outweigh promiscuous irresponsibility.

NO unwanted pregnancy, NO abortions, No single-parenthood, NO financial problems due to bringing a a baby into the world when unprepared, NO "baby mamma drama," NO STDs, NO hangovers and mental problems from previous, bad sexual encounters, NO getting "used," and the list goes on and on.

The biggest problem is that we have so-called adults that are living just plain nasty lives and they don't set the bar at the proper level to engender the responsible behavior the young folks could easily emulate if they had proper role models of chastity and responsibility.

Empower and expect. Too bad there are still a slew of individuals and industries that could care less. They would rather vacu suck the baby or dope and poison the mother rather than set an example and teach self-control and responsibility.
4 months ago: I attempted to say, our attitude in America is not ideal for teens, so why not find a culture whose attitude is more, well, fruitful in this area of stress and difficulty. Europe has been longer civilized and more densely civilized than America, it is a reasonable place to look. My conclusion to http://www.sex-education.net/ is that if people are easily communicating with each other, and with friends, then the situation is more positive. Yet this is exactly what abstinance-only education thwarts.
Content Removed by Huey Newton
4 months ago: Yet this is exactly what abstinence-only education thwarts."

I'm still not exactly sure of precisely what you mean by that statement.

Do you mean that abstinence should not be taught? Do you belive that waiting until marriage or serious covenant commitment is not possible or should not be desired by our youth? That it cannot and should not be reasonably expected among our children?

If that that case, that's a pretty poor perspective and gives very little credit to the potential, intelligence, and power of our younger generation.

Abstinence, when taught properly, includes ALL the information that will enable the young person to make and keep the decision to be abstinent until the proper time. It also gives the tools and empowerment to make it so. The "WHY" is always to be taught in this type of education or one is programming it for failure.

Another "WHY" that I have yet to mention is that folks who don't sleep around before marriage tend to stay married. That shouldn't come as a surprise. Multiple partners before marriage often lead to infidelity in the marriage and the destruction of a family.
Be sure to tell that to the kids. Tell them that IF they ever plan to marry, they would be better off waiting because it ASTRONIMICALLY increases the chances of them staying together versus if they have had multiple sexual experiences with multiple partners before marriage.
http://www.marriageromance.com/stories/1...
"Reality proves different from what you are being taught by media and "safe sex" education. "Contrary to pop-culture wisdom, those who do choose to save sex for marriage are not doomed to a second-class sex life. Rather they typically report higher levels of sexual satisfaction and marital contentment. Moreover, early sexual experience has been linked to marital dissatisfaction, low self-esteem, and greater incidence of Divorce." Hooten, Jeff. "The New Virgins." 16 March 2004.
They need to know that, don't ya think?

There is a big difference in this type of superior sex education. It's the absolute best way to teach the value and establish moral bedrock in our kids. Will all heed it? Nope. Should it be consistently and properly taught? You better believe it should. Should it be modeled by the adults? Chastity and fidelity? Yep. The only way to program for success instead of moral failure.

Delay of gratification in this area empowers the individual involved. It give them confidence and builds self-esteem. It is the best way.
Give the kids time, rear them and teach them well. Help them to avoid the whole psychological, financial and societal disasters that they can become by participating in adult activities that they are in no way ready to fully handle.

Some may consider this a naive position, but it is not. Of course, this does not mean all will execute well or even try, but that is the context in which real sex education should be taught.

Anything goes, put a rubber on it or kill it if it grows is not education. It's programming and enablement for failure. Our young people deserve better than that from us.
4 months ago: Hey Terry... Can I ask you a straight forward question?

Since you feel that Tax Dollars should fund Abortions....

How about you agree to cut those funds in half and allow Tax Dollars to fund Anti-Abortion programs?

Would you agree to meet halfway to start?
4 months ago: Apparently these questions will remain unanswered too TCG -

"Do you mean that abstinence should not be taught? Do you belive that waiting until marriage or serious covenant commitment is not possible/plausible or should not be desired by our youth? That it (abstaining) cannot and should not be reasonably expected among our children?

I NEVER leave my posts in limbo.
1 month ago: Abstinence-only sex education is a form of sex education that teaches abstinence from sex, and often excludes many other types of sexual and reproductive health education, particularly regarding birth control and safe sex. This type of sex education promotes sexual abstinence until marriage and avoids discussion of use of contraceptives. Comprehensive sex education, by contrast, covers the use of contraceptives as well as abstinence. Wikipedia

Cypress Gang, Programs already in place, such as Medicare and Medicaid provide various health care funds. As I understand this particular health issue, those battles are fought in legislatures. There is no clear "this much to abortionists", "that much to anti-abortionists". My take is, News services will provide all the anti-anything that anyone could possibly want!

Sorry to be so slow, people.

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