Science & Technology

Rant

US vs. China – Wining the energy race

Posted 8 months ago|13 comments|748 views
Thorium in its raw form
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Couple of weeks before Fukushima incident, China made a statement that it is going to build a safe, clean, and cheap network of nuclear reactors based on Thorium. This news passed unnoticed in US and most of the developed world. This move by China, if it succeeds, could change the entire energy outlook of the world.

What really gets me is the fact that China's Academy of Sciences said it had chosen a "Thorium-based molten salt reactor system" for its new line of nuclear reactors. Oak Ridge National Laboratory first designed and experimented with molten salt reactor using Thorium as fuel. From 1964–1969, their research revealed that Thorium has higher neutron yield than uranium, better fission rating, longer fuel cycles and it is far easier to process and separate from contaminants than any other nuclear fuel.

Even more important, they discovered that safety with this type of reactors is far greater. If it begins to overheat, a little plug melts and the salts drain into a pan stopping the nuclear reaction. There is no need for computers, electrical pumps or any other safety measure vulnerable to the tsunami or any other natural disaster. The reactor just saves itself! Once again, China is using US developed technology and in the years to come, they will probably sell it back at interest.

Why did we abandon this technology if it is so much better than uranium powered reactors? Well, in the early 60's, cold war was very much a reality and US needed Plutonium residue from uranium for its nuclear arsenal.

Why is US not pushing in this direction now? Is it because Nuclear Energy is often viewed as a GOP supported industry? The White House pledged $8 billion for nuclear development but nobody is talking Thorium yet!

Estimated reserves of Uranium are good for only 80 years at expected usage rates. Thorium is as common as lead. US have tons of it buried as a by-product of rare earth metals mining. One ton of Thorium produces as much energy as 200 tons of uranium. A single fistful of this metal could supply power to Washington D.C. for a week!

Thorium-fluoride reactors can run at atmospheric temperature and can be much smaller and far less expensive. There is no need for those huge containment domes because there is no pressurized water in the reactor. It is possible to build small, underground, pint-sized 600 MW reactors that can support smaller grids and pose almost no environmental hazard.

No environmentalists need worry. Thorium cannot be used for producing the raw material for atomic bombs. It cannot meltdown under any circumstances and after only 500 years, its waste will be no more dangerous than the ashes from a conventional coal-burning power plant.


The world is running out of fossil fuels. Renewable energy cannot replace them any time soon. Is US doing humanity a favor by stepping out of the race and letting the Chinese become leaders in thorium technology?
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COMMENTS
8 months ago: I'll take one. Don't need any bomb material as by-products so the fuel type is fine. Just a few billionaires have to be convinced that their way of life must change, no more fossil fuel need so they will just have to live on what they have already gouged out of the rest of us.
8 months ago: Exactly!
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: "Renewable energy cannot replace them any time soon"

It could if it were being properly researched and funded.
8 months ago: So... you are basically saying that it is better to pour money into Chinese-made solar panels and wind turbines than into original and available American technology that uses American resources?

I am not saying that renewable resources should be forgotten. I think that the government should use some of that borrowed money to invest into domestic production and exploitation of solar and wind energy.

I'm just curious why nobody is investing in domestically developed, cheap and sustainable energy production?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: Not at all. I said it needs to be properly funded and researched...where in that sentence do I say anything about China?
8 months ago: My bad. You are right. Research and development are truly lacking funding.

Still, don't you think that some money should be invested in domestic Thorium reactors since technology is already developed?

I think that developing new, renewable energy sources should have same priority as migrating away from fossil fuels by using cheap and available resources.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
8 months ago: I'm all for thorium reactors. Living in Illinois I speak from personal experience (we have a LOT of nuclear power plants) with Nuclear energy in general...I would much rather see steam rising up from the power plant than black smoke.

Honestly I would really like to see lots of research money spent on Geo-Thermal energy options.

Wind is a fantastic option, just drive down Interstate 39 in in Illinois or across US 20 and I-80 in Iowa...wind farms as far as the eye can see...and they have a small foot print so the farmers can continue to work the land around them.

Water...well 70% of the planet is covered in it...there must be an effective way to make use of it outside of Nevada.

Lots of options that are better and more efficient than coal and oil and gas
8 months ago: I agree with all that you listed 100%!

When you talk about driving, according to some scientists, 8 grams of Thorium would be enough to take a Hummer 960,000 miles. And since it is nowhere near uranium, it's radioactivity could be contained using simple aluminum foil.

Now, Geo-Thermal has great potential but I don't see that there is much research going on there. I really wonder why?
Felix Mannow
Felix Mannow
England
8 months ago: Now Darko Yu makes it sound like USA doing world favours by letting China do science.
Usa not making rule China does what China want not be allowed by Usa to do thing.
Yu shuld refrase some of what yu say.
As wrong.
Usa not making sciences waves anymore as spend all dollar on wars in other people countrys and no money left.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
8 months ago: Thorium reactors may operate safer but the processing is more dangerous. Using Uranium tetraflouride as coolant does not sound perfectly safe, and there are still dangerous radioactive materials we need to get rid of. The other thing is cost.

I would prefer to go with safe renewable energy. The sun and wind isn't going to kill that many people. Solar Natural gas hybrids could be on the grid in a year or two. It will be a long time before thorium floride reactors can get on line and by then solar and other renewables might make it obsolete or unable to compete economically.

I think that renewable energy could replace our fossil fuel use if as Perfect said it was properly funded.

I like the use of small Thorium reactors for spacecraft power as opposed to plutonium reactors. Plutonium is the most toxic element known and one pound if evenly dispersed could give everyone on earth cancer. In some of our pluto missions we put 24 lbs on top of a huge rocket. If that had exploded in the upper atmosphere it would have been a major disaster. http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/re...

Thorium would be much safer for spacecraft going to the outer planets - a use that can't use solar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs2Ugxo7...
8 months ago: Where did you get that Thorium reactor uses Uranium tetreafluoride as a coolant and that it's processing is more dangerous? You are talking about regular uranium powered reactors.

Here are just a few facts:

Thorium reactors use liquid fluoride thorium as a fuel which expands under heat and throttles the reaction which self-prevents overheating. Thorium cannot sustain a nuclear chain reaction without priming, so fission stops by default. There is no need to stop Thorium reactor for refueling!This is a great safety advantage, since no emergency cooling system is needed,

Thorium produces up to 10,000 times less long-lived radioactive waste. An accelerator-based systems can operate at sub-criticality and require no Uranium or Plutonium for start-up.

Thorium comes out of the ground as a 100% pure, usable isotope, which does not require enrichment, whereas natural uranium contains only 0.7% fissionable U-235. Also, preparation of thorium fuel does not require isotopic separation. This spells much easier processing! As for the dangers of Thorium, common Zircon can contain up to 0.4% of Thorium!
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
8 months ago: I got that from Wikipedia (I know - sorry) Apparently the second paragraph is not referring to the first.

"One kind of a MSR is the liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR), recently described by Kirk Sorensen at Mount Royal University.[1]"

"In many designs the nuclear fuel is dissolved in the molten fluoride salt coolant as uranium tetrafluoride (UF4). The fluid becomes critical in a graphite core which serves as the moderator. Fluid fuel reactors have significantly different safety issues compared to solid fuel designs; the potential for major reactor accidents is reduced, while the potential for processing accidents is increased.[2]"

Your facts makes this type of reactor sound immeasurably better than any of the other fission reactors I have heard about.

The uranium nuclear power industry was started to provide fuel for our nuclear weapon systems. Is that why we haven't heard about them before? The military industrial complex wasn't interested because they aren't lethal enough?

If Thorium reactors are that safe and efficient, why aren't we pushing them as power sources in third world countries so we don't have to worry about them making bombs.
8 months ago: Yes, the second paragraph is definitely wrong since it talks about molten salt reactors using Uranium as a fuel and not Thorium.

The major reason that further development of Thorium reactors was discontinued is that it is extremely difficult to get any weapons grade nuclear material from them. This made them uninteresting for the military industry that needed Plutonium for nuclear weapons!

Regarding third world countries, China is making the push in this direction while India should have first Thorium reactor operative next year. Those countries already have developed nuclear programs. The trouble is that if we teach somebody to make Thorium reactor, they get enough knowledge to build Uranium one too and it would definitely create a mess.

Thorium is best for domestic use since its much safer than Uranium and, according to USGS, United States have one of the world's largest reserves of this material.

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