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Trumped: Obama Releases Long-Form Birth Certificate

Posted 13 months ago|44 comments|726 views
Written by
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
According to Donald Trump, America has Donald Trump for getting the President to release his long form birth certificate. (source) (link to image of document previously authenticated) Of course, fervent birthers won't be persuaded by this new document either. First, they will claim, and even Donald Trump says he needs to see it for himself, the actual document to believe it because he's been told, "the certificate was missing" . (source), that this still isn't a birth certificate but, rather, a certificate of live birth which they have long claimed can and is issued to anyone who claims to be born anywhere. They will also claim it's a fake. They will also claim is was just released and adds nothing new but the physician's signature which could be fake. So, how has anything changed?

Nothing has changed because there was nothing to start with. Unless people still and genuinely believe that somehow Barack Obama's parents knew to fake all this stuff back when he was born, how were these things faked? The President has found this whole thing funny, which is rather polite of him. He very easily could take it to be racist. No one wants to go there because it is the new defense used by racists that non-racists always raise the race card against them. Duh! What else could it be? When was the last time that a white Euro-American was asked to go to these lengths to prove he or she was born in America beyond any shadow of a doubt? These issues never arose until we had a first generation African American running for President. With an open book on his youth and no viable skeletons in his closet to exploit, this birther issue became the only point of attack. If you cannot attack a man on his ideas, attack him on his birthrights. This made for a great story on neo-conservative talk shows for months on end. In a side-show effort to make himself relevant, Donald Trump takes up the mantle and makes wild claims and accusations against the President vowing to use his own money to get to the bottom of the birther issue. His people never turned up anything despite the Donald's vast resources. The arrogance of Donald Trump is mystifying as if to think that Rush Limbaugh didn't spend his resources to be the one to unmask the President. If Limbaugh couldn't find anything, who could? And, of course, there is no proof that Limbaugh spent any money on the issue, but he certainly could have and seems likely would have if he saw a smoking gun there. Now Donald Trump is challenging how Barack Obama attended Ivy League schools (Columbia and Harvard Law) suggesting because no transcripts have been released, the President's tales of college and grad school are just that. Why? No one asked George W. Bush to produce his transcripts? Or Bill Clinton. Or George Bush, Sr. The only logical reason in Donald Trump's case is that he's desperate for media attention and will say or do literally anything to receive it. Apparently, he doesn't see that the American people are happy to hold people accountable for their actions and words. He may not see that every false claim he levels chisels away at his exterior revealing what kind of person he truly is. Is this the kind of person you would want handling the office of the Presidency? Fortunately, despite polls showing Donald Trump is doing well among fellow possible GOP candidates, he has not been polling well against the incumbent, and the crazier he continues to come across, the more expeditiously his numbers and hopes for legitimacy will plummet.
UPDATE - 13 months ago
here is a link to the President's news conference on why the long form has finally been released

video

Please listen to the video and pay attention to the President's words. It is difficult not to be inspired. He accepts that there are about to be huge disagreements ahead which he says are what make a democracy great! isn't it really time for those on the right and far right to give the President a chance? No? You just want him out and someone else in? Ok, why? Because you believe talking points and right-wing neo-conservative rhetoric more than you believe the man himself? What if, given a chance, Obama and our Congress really could get America back on track? Are you really willing to waste two more years after wasting the previous two plus 8 years of Bush so an entire decade spinning out wheels based on half truths and lies? Are you really willing to just give up and roll over on the hope and change? Honestly, I don't see what people have to lose by giving America a chance to work.
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COMMENTS
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: I have long questioned Mr. O's birthplace - and with it the lawfullness of his holding the office he now holds. What was released today would appear to settle the issue. Of course, in the age of PhotoShop and other such tools, seeing is far from believing. It is far too easy to counterfeit any image.

BUT

Now the burden of proof would seem to be squarely upon the shoulders of the persons who would claim that BHO is not a citizen. As Carl Sagan said,
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
The burden of proof to support any claim of BHO's not being a citizen or that the certificate presented today is not, in fact, genuine falls solely upon those making the claims. It is not necessary for BHO to prove that the document presented is genuine. It is prima facie genuine. Anyone who asserts otherwise must present evidence supporting that assertion.

I still find it troubling that Mr. Obama spent so very much time and money fighting the release of this document. But that said I have no reason now to doubt his birthplace.

In re. your added paragraph, CR, I think we have given Mr. Obama all the chances he deserves. It has nothing to do with "talking points" - which are much more a fixture of the left than the right - and everything to do with him taking our republic in a direction with which I utterly and completely disagree. It is my strongly and closely held conviction that Barak Hussein Obama is leading the republic down a path which can only end in civil war and most likely the collapse of western civilization.

But I do so very much hope I am wrong.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
13 months ago: BC, I would be curious if you could outline the specifics of the "wrong direction" you feel we are being led. Often when I ask this question, I get Glenn Beck bites such as socialism, wealth redistribution, and so forth. I don't get anything real that he has done. I also don't get any real solutions. The only person out there giving solutions now, is Donald Trump, and his solutions may be real, but I don't know how realistic they are. Does Donald Trump really believe we should have gone into Libya to take it's oil? Does he really think that a giant tariff on Chinese products would accomplish anything but drive up the cost of goods in the US? Still, I applaud him for, at least, giving out some ideas lately unlike him compeition who simply bash liberal ideals.

We need less ideal bashing and more problem solving, in my opinion.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: OK. But for the record, I "feel" this, I believe it.

1. In general the country is heading (as it has been for decades) towards increasingly centralized government in DC.

2. The whole conversation from the left uses Marxist/Socialist terminology and paradigms.

3. The Administration has shown what I believe to be a singular disregard for the rule of law. For example: when GM was bailed out secured creditors were sent to the end of the line in favor of unsecured creditors in direct contravention of U.S. law.

4. Increasing attacks on the wealthy and an increase in "class war" type rhetoric.

5. While publicly stating his support for the 2nd Amendment, the President has appointed what I - and many similarly minded - believe to be two of the most anti RKBA Justices in history.

6. The administration has openly called meetings with various anti-gun to groups explore ways to circumvent recent SCOTUS rulings (Heller, Macdonald) and the now Republican dominated House to proceed with the disarming of the populace. In this effort they have invited people who openly advocate the Government being the only one to be able to apply deadly force.

7. The administration has increased handouts from the government thereby producing an increasingly dependent populous.

Why is it wrong to "bash" ideas you perceive to be patently wrong headed?

I believe that the major, structural changes BHO promised during the election and which he has pursued assiduously for the past 2+ years have pushed our republic past the point of no return and that a civil war is now inevitable. I am actively preparing for that war - not to participate in it but to survive it with my family as intact as possible.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: Errata: The first sentence of my previous post should have been
"OK. But for the record, I do NOT "feel" this, I believe it.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
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markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
13 months ago: Huckster Trump supported Obama back in 2008 and than he went full tilt birther to drum up interest for a potential Presidential bid. Even if Obama hadn't show the long form (the birthers won't believe it anyway), Trump permanently smeared himself as being part of the lunatic fringe, ala Jesse Ventura truther style.

It would be nice to see somebody elected who isn't already an entrenched Dem/GOP politician.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: I think, as I pointed out in a previous Rant, that this will be a unifying move by the President, one that he should have taken years ago. I'm not so sure Trump hadn't already seen the birth certificate on file, but that he just wanted to end the purposeful divisiveness carried out by the current administration.

I mean, think about it. For a guy with Trump's money, getting a peek would have cost 50 grand, tops.

True, the hard core birthers will never be swayed, just as the Apollo hoaxers will never believe, even if you took them up to the moon to show them the footprints..... Heck, there are still people who believe we only invaded Iraq in order to steal their oil!!! Go figure.
13 months ago: But Trump understands "the Blacks."
13 months ago: If your talking about a set of books...

He has also been found to "know a few Reds".
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: While I never jumped on the birther bandwagon, being somewhat fact oriented in my world view, I'm also not jumping on the "racial prejudice is the only reason people don't like Obama". I'm sure that if Phan Dang Truong came onto the political scene with a somewhat murky history, he would be checked out just as thoroughly. If he couldn't produce the proper credentials, do you think even the Democrat Party would vet him? I think the same could be said for Vladimir Nicolai Popoffanovich.

Be honest with yourself. The chance of everyone who detests Obama as president because of his skin color is just as good as everyone who supports him for the very same reason, because he's part black. Are you one of the people, admittedly in good company I suppose, whose reasoning included the thought "It's high time we had a black president. Let's give this guy, whoever he is, a chance."

BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: markbyne wrote:
"It would be nice to see somebody elected who isn't already an entrenched Dem/GOP politician."
Didn't they try that up in Wisconsin a couple of years back? Some former pro wrestler it was, if memory serves, named Jesse Ventura. I could be mistaken, but I don't recall that being terribly successful.

Sad to say, but I believe there is NO solution to our current situation. From where I sit, the Republic appears to be well and truly FUBAR. I used to think we could - metaphorically speaking - "reboot" the republic; take things back to a pre Marbury v Madison state and proceed from there. I used to think that but I no longer do so. I am convinced that the only hope for liberty in our chunk of North America is to effectively wipe the hard drive and completely reload the operating system. In fact we need to reload the operating system with some significant patches. It must be stated in the preamble that the central government has no powers NOT EXPLICITLY GRANTED in either the body of the document or in its amendments - PERIOD. It should contain language that specifically prohibits any other interpretation of the constitution than that which a reasonable person would derive from reading it. And any public official knowingly going beyond the explicit bounds of the new constitution shall be guilty of an impeachable offense. It should also explicitly define - in plain, unequivocal language - what constitutes the different levels of citizenship given as requirements to hold various public offices. It should also explicitly affirm the right of the people to to throw off the existing government - by force of arms if necessary - and to provide new guards for their future security and that no law shall be made at any level that IN ANY WISE abridges the right of the people to maintain tools and supplies to effect such an end.

Unfortunately, "wiping the hard drive" would likely cost the lives of millions.
13 months ago: What was the name of that Hospital again?
13 months ago: Not to mention these new questions...

How is it that those numbers and dates are our of sequence?????

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105347
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
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BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: (Oops. Forgot the quote before. Trying again)
"How is it that those numbers and dates are our of sequence?"

I cannot stand the man but I can think of a possible explanation. If I am not mistaken, those numbers are assigned at the registrar's office. Apparently the hospital did not send documents to the county every day. If the stack was in the order the documents were generated, then documents from the 5th would very likely be on top of documents from the 4th. This could easily lead to documents from the 5th carrying a lower sequence number than documents from the 4th.

But BHO STILL does not qualify as a "natural born citizen" according to the standard ruled upon by SCOTUS on multiple occasions. BHO Sr. was a Keynan citizen when Jr. was born. Jr. might well be a citizen but not a "natural born citizen". Hence he is not eligible to hold the office he holds.

That being said, the likelihood of him being removed from is vanishingly small. No way the Senate would vote to convict (even IF Boehner suddenly grew a pair and got him indicted) and there is question as to the precise mechanism to remove someone unlawfully holding office. If it requires the DOJ to do it, I figure a snowflake in a blast furnace has a better chance of surviving than BHO does of being removed from office.

Ain't happening, folks.

Reboot the Republic!
13 months ago: Maybe that is why they love "Anchor Babies"?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
13 months ago: Other Birth Certificates issued from the same hospital with the same name:
\
http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/04/14/l...

Francis Booth was born in 1949 in that hospital and the hospital name is clearly shown as "Kapiolani Mat. & Gyn. Hospital"

Another one:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...

Susan Nordyke was born one day after Obama and her certificate says "Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital"

There's the answer to the name - it's the same.
13 months ago: and the registration sequence number???
13 months ago: Too little too late. Then again who would benefit by releasing this fairy tale tid bit at this time? Yep. Why would Obama spend millions of dollars in court to not disclose and then at this time release a fairy tail rendition? Could it be that...

"It's not just Obama's original birth certificate at issue. WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records."
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: You're beating a dead horse here, CG. This is a serenity issue.

Or as Kenny Rogers sang "You got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run."
13 months ago: BC, I'm just laying out the ground work for a future statement from the correct thinking crowd.

It goes something like this...

The Bible is a fairy tale......
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: I still think the whole thing is a clumsy ballet. Is the Donald a viable candidate? Not by any stretch of the imagination, in my humble opinion. So only now that Trump has turned his theatrics toward the limelight of politics, Obama decides to shed light on his basement copy of the original birth certificate. Any forward thinking leader would have put the matter to bed long long ago.

But what is the result of this delayed reverse psychology?
Well, more conspiracy theory, and the revisiting of things grown tiresome in years past. In other words, more division. If the man cared a whit for the health of our nation, he would release the records in question, all of them. If he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to lose, except an easily ruled divided nation.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: I think I know why BHO has been fighting all this time to keep from showing his Birth Certificate.

Ask me nicely and I'll give you my take. Tomorrow.

Coming down with something bad in my chest. Going down for the night.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
13 months ago: As has already been stated, the folk who hate Obama will find other ways to rationalize their hate.

Wouldn't it be a lot more productive if we started discussing the many problems we face and what the solutions might be instead?

One of the best researchers and writers on the R/R site, Hey Noni Noni, wrote this nearly two years ago. It seems particularly apt today. http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/News-Flash-...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: Now Al, instead of just glossing over the events with a pat answer, why not delve into a bit? Why do YOU think it took Obama over two years to release a simple document that would prove his citizenship once and for all?

Wouldn't it have been to his, nay, to every American's benefit to have quelled the fears that we might be infiltrated by an outside malevolence? Put yourself in his shoes. If you were elected to the highest office in the land, and treason was suspected of you, would you not do your very best to allay those suspicions?

And besides, all Noni's piece said was "nonny nonny boo boo, we ee ee won"
13 months ago: Thank goodness you never hated President Bush.

Huh?

markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
13 months ago: The problem is here once you start feeding conspiracy trolls, they claim victory just by virtue that you acknowledged their issue and they keep the conspiracy ball rolling.

For example, the first birther response here was to suggest it's a forgery because of the hospital name. So you provide examples where the the same name was used. Ooops, okay - what about the birth certificate sequence, why didn't he respond to the birthers earlier, what about his college grades, what about this, and what about that?

It will never end although I do believe that Buzz Aldrin came up with an effective answer to a moon hoaxer conspiracy kook:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaUqaVj51...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: Well, we already know why he didn't respond to the birthers earlier. Taking away that piece of contention, division, is not in the best interests of the ruling elite. But, the best way to end it once and for all is to refute each claim as it comes up. To simply ignore it is what lends credibility to the conspiracy theorists.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: I think the whole birth certificate issue was a red herring to keep us from looking at the real issue of his eligibility - is he, in fact, a "natural born citizen" per SCOTUS definition. The birth certificate confirms that BHO Sr. was a Kenyan citizen and thus a subject of the British Empire at the time of the birth. Per SCOTUS, that fact alone would preclude BHO Jr. from being POTUS - period. His adoption by Lolo Soetoro would appear to me to further muddy the waters.

However

All of this discussion is utterly moot. There is no chance he is going to be removed from office. We out here in the hinterlands can squawk all we want but in the end nothing will be done. It is a "serenity" issue now. BHO is there, he will STAY there, and I have every reason to expect that he will be handed a 2nd term on a silver platter. Thus he will have every opportunity to continue his major structural changes.

Excuse me now. I need to order supplies and a couple of things to make my FNAR better at long range. NOT to rebel, Al, but to protect my family's freehold when the rebellion erupts.

Oh and, Al, I do NOT "hate" BHO. I do not know him. I bear him no animus what so ever. His ethnicity could not be less relevant to me. I have 2 nieces and a nephew with his same sort of ancestry and I love them dearly. I dislike his politics, Al. I am not a socialist nor am I a stateist. I am, however, a strict constructionist when it comes to the Constitution and believe what the left is doing is wrong for the country. I also believe that the left is pushing this country in a direction that can only result in civil war.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
13 months ago: I think that the entire conspiracy was fed by Fox and Hate radio because the entire right wing is driven by hate and by misinformation and lies.

Much of the propaganda fed to the minions is economical. The Koch brothers and the many other billionaires that run the propaganda machine do so because they benefit when 75% of the Republicans don't believe in Climate change even though 97% of climatologists reached consensus that it is happening and human caused.

They have a ready audience of impressionable people who will believe their lies because the evangelical Christians already doubt science and evolution because they would rather believe folk tales.

It was very simple to convert this propaganda machine and make it personal.

This propaganda machine threw all kinds of things at the wall, that he was born in Kenya, that he is a socialist, that he was a tool of Bill Ayres, that he was a communist etc. etc. etc.

Most of this nonsense did not resonate as well as the birther lies because of the inherent racism or distrust of the "Other". The right wing is dependant on fanning the flames of fear of the others. That is how they got us into an illegal war in Iraq., a country that did not attack us, was no threat and had no WOMD. They fanned the flames of islamaphobia. That is how they fanned the flames of fear and racism against Latinos, even though when Obama got in he severely reduced the number of illegals coming into the country.

The hidden racism against Obama is what is drove the Jim Crow laws that kept blacks economically enslaved for a hundred years after they were supposed to receive their freedom. Today the right wing is using the same tactics with the voter ID laws that will deny the right to vote to many minorities.

They make everything sound reasonable (to the whites) but the actuality is they make the minorities jump through more hoops and more red tape to get the same freedoms given to whites.

Never before in the history of the nation has any president or candidate have to prove that he was born here. Why now? The only logical reason is that Obama` is one of the "Others" he doesn't look like all of the other white rich guys that became president. So he had to jump through extra hoops. The official birth certificate wasn't sufficient he had to get extraordinary permission to show the long form.

What really gripes me now is that the Republicans are blaming Obama for the entire conspiracy.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: "...Never before in the history of the nation has any president or candidate have to prove that he was born here...."

Martin Van Buren - 8th President
Van Buren's first language was Dutch. Born December 5, 1782 in Kinderhook New York, he was not only the first President not of English decent, he was also the first President to be born in the United States of America. A smear campaign was run, claiming that he had in fact been born in Europe, to account for his Dutch Accent.

Chester Alan Arthur - 21st President
His father was an Irish Preacher, and his mother of Native American descent. Born in Fairfield Vermont in 1829, Chester's father only became a citizen in 1843 (during his son's Presidency). This raised questions about Citizenship, because Chester could had just as easily used his father's heritage to become a subject of Great Britain himself, and even run for office in London.

Both of the above mentioned presidents were considered white.

The entire conspiracy was fed by Obama ignoring it, and him pretending he was not the President of those who doubted him. By refusing to even address the issue, through arrogance or petulance or hurt feelings or whatever, he allowed it to go on and become a much wider dividing point than was necessary.

No matter how much arm waving you do, and "Hey look over here", the fact remains that Obama could have ended this discussion three years ago.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: Also this article from Feb.28, 2008, raising the question of McCain's eligibility.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/pol...

As it happens, McCain was born of two American citizens, and on an American military base, which is considered to be sovereign U.S. soil. But the question was still raised. I guess that was all hidden racial prejudice as well.

I'm thinking that those whom still think that any opposition to a black man has to be racially motivated, have some racial issues of their own left to work out.
13 months ago: Funny how liberals can change the subject with just their superior intellect.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: "...The right wing is dependant on fanning the flames of fear of the others. That is how they got us into an illegal war in Iraq., a country that did not attack us, was no threat and had no WOMD. ..."


How soon we forget the way things REALLY went!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBch...
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
13 months ago: Just one point of contention here, but a U.S. Military base is NOT considered U.S. Sovereign soil. The only soil out side actual US territory that is considered sovereign soil by US and international law is embassy soil. Therefore, McCain was not boing on US soil. He certainly was not born in the embassy in Panama, and actually was born in Panama to two US citizens. A popular misconception perpetuated by the ill-informed run at the mouthers is that the intent of the framers of the Constitution was that the person had to be born in the US. What they really wanted was for the person to be a US Citizen from birth. There is no way on earth they would have considered John McCain ineligible to hold the office. Likewise, their intention was not to block anyone actually born in the United States no matter the citizenship of their parents. Their intention was that all persons born on U.S. soil be automatically considered natural born.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
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Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago:

Sovereignty of a US military installation depends on the agreement made between the US and the host country. If the base is not subject to the jurisdiction of the host, it is considered sovereign. However, neither consulates nor military bases meet the requirements of US soil as laid out in the 14th Amendment.

Another point of contention you may have missed was my mistaken assumption that Ann's citizenship would have automatically bestowed citizenship on BOII. As it turns out, had he been born outside the US, he would not have automatically inherited citizenship. The the parent in question has to be a resident of the USA for at least ten years, with those ten years not beginning before the age of sixteen. Obama's mother was eighteen when he was born.

That is why the birth certificate was such an issue. Without it, he would definitely not be a natural born citizen.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
13 months ago: The official Hawaiian certificate of live birth IS the official document of record. That should have satisfied all but the nutcases.
13 months ago: There are different grades of nutcase.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: And different flavors, too.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
13 months ago: If we accept the newly presented (minted?) as genuine, then we have irrefutable proof that Barak Hussein Obama is NOT lawfully President of the Republic of the United States of America.

United States Constitution Article 2 Section 1: "No person except a natural born Citizen . . . shall be eligible to the Office of President;"

In multiple rulings the Supreme Court of the Republic of the United States of America has defined "natural born Citizen" as being a person born in the United States (or its territories) whose parents were both citizens at the time of his birth.

The birth certificate presented clearly shows that Barak Hussein Obama Sr. was most definitely NOT a citizen at the time BHO Jr. was born. Clearly and unequivocally, Barak Hussein Obama Jr. was not eligible to run for president and does NOT - LAWFULLY - hold the office he now holds. And, Al, CR, it could not possibly be of less import to me that one of BHO's parents was Black. As I have written before on numerous occasions, I have nieces and nephews whit one - or more - black birth parents and I love them dearly - one of them fiercely. At issue is not BHO's race but his qualifications - as set out in the constitution - to occupy the office he now holds.

To continue the base canard of racism - at least in so far as applying it to me - is an outright lie and a mortal insult.

Over to you, Al, CR, et al.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
13 months ago: Not the one you would be expecting this from, probably, but precedent has been set in the case of Chester Alan Arthur, 21st President, whose father was a subject of Great Britain until after Arther was elected president.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
12 months ago: But since then SCOTUS has defined "natural born Citizen" as one whose parents were BOTH citizens at the time of the citizen's birth. Taken at face value, based upon most recent SCOTUS rulings, BHO is not qualified to hold the office he does.

Please note that I do not expect this little fact to matter one whit. BHO WILL get a 2nd term and he WILL complete the major part of the change he promised and that can only lead to civil war.

So be it.

Reboot the Republic! ¡Viva la Revolución!
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
12 months ago: One of the things the Tea Party Nutcases would like to repeal is the 14th Amendment: Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
12 months ago: Actually, what we "Tea Party Nutcases" would like to do is to have it interpreted more strictly. There is a great deal of legal thought that someone here on, say, a tourist visa, while functionally subject to the laws of the U.S., is not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S. Similarly, someone here illegally is arguably not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. As I understand it, children born to diplomats serving here would not be considered citizens under that interpretation.

The problem is that the 14th Amendment was written by lawyers and employs technical legal language.

The bottom line is that the only reason the 14th is applied as it is today is as a result of a SCOTUS ruling. There are a great number of countries who do NOT confer citizenship upon a child due to the mere fact that they were born in that country. That would seem to be a valid precedent for not automatically conferring citizenship upon a baby born to persons here temporarily, or under diplomatic credentials or illegally.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
12 months ago: Oh no, BadCyborg. The left only looks to other countries as a role model when they have have more liberal policies than ours, not less. The Netherlands do not provide for automatic citizenship for children born to foreign parents.

http://www.extrapassport.com/netherlands...

Sweden is the same. "In general, children born in Sweden to foreign parents do not acquire Swedish citizenship at birth, although if they remain resident in Sweden they may become Swedish later on."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nat...

And you know how big the TEA party is in Sweden.

Altruist is always talking about how we need to look to Sweden as some kind of liberal utopian paradise. Why don't we start with their immigration and nationalization policies, and work our way up from there?

I'd also love to see a US woman's child born in Mexico try to fight for his rights to automatic Mexican citizenship. Ain't gonna happen.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
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BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
12 months ago: Al, are you there? What do you say to the assertion that while BHO IS (at least for the sake of argument) a citizen, the very birth certificate proves that he was not eligible to run for President and is not constitutionally eligible to hold the office he now holds?

This has nothing to do with the 14th amendment, my good Altruist, but with the constitution and settled law. To qualify to be president a person - man/woman, caucasoid/negroid/asian/australoid/whatever - MUST be born in the United States and BOTH his parents MUST be citizens at the time of his birth. SCOTUS is very clear. BOTH parents must be citizens at the time of the child's birth. According to the birth certificate, BHO Sr. was a Kenyan national and NOT a U.S. citizen at the time Jr. was born in Hawaii.

Or do the qualifications in the constitution mean no more to you than the rest of the wording?

Over to you, Altruist. Have you the stones to answer this? I suspect not. Please prove me wrong.

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