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The vanishing world of L. Ron Hubbard

Posted 37 months ago|89 comments|3,524 views
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It has been more than 40 years since Granada Television of England broadcast a show titled "The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard". Back then Scientology was still a hot new things among the hippy culture and those looking for something new outside of mainstream religion. L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction author, created Scientology in the 1950's claiming it as an alternative to medical science. When pressed by the FDA in the US, he changed it into a religion and began pulling in followers by the thousands.

In 1968, after several controversies, such as media backlash against the policy of "Fair Game", the new movement began to falter. During the late 1970's Scientology was rocked by allegations they had infiltrated both the IRS and the FBI and burglarized several government offices. The code name for the project was Operation Snow White and several top ranking Scientologists, including L. Ron Hubbard's current wife, Mary Sue Hubbard were convicted of a number of crimes and sentanced to prison sentances. L. Ron Hubbard and his top lawyer Ken Moxon were both named as co-conspirators but were not indicted in the case.

In the 1980's, things were starting to look better as they launched new campaigns to bring in new members and a new generation of kids began growing up inside. However in 1986, L. Ron Hubbard died while in hiding in California, leaving the future of Scientology a question. Shortly after his death, David Miscaivage, one of L. Ron Hubbard's right hand men took charge of the organization and launched it into a new prosperity going into the 1990's. Scientology become a force in Hollywood, buying up buildings along the star studded Hollywood strip and launched a takeover of the city of Clearwater, Florida, which remains a major hub of Scientology to this day.

It looked like Scientology would finally reach the heights of power that L. Ron Hubbard had dreamed of until the internet came along. With the internet came the power for anyone in the world to publish information anonymously and to broadcast it to millions of people at once. Before Scientology had controlled their reputation with an iron fist, going after Time Magazine in 1991 for an unfavorable article and sending the rest of the mainstream media into a cowering silence. However now individuals who had been victimized inside or concerned citizens who were worried about the misuse of Scientology's raw power and money could be found with just a single search. As more and more stories came out about abuse, manipulation and exploitation inside more people began to balk at joining. Today, when nearly everyone who wants to learn more about something will simply type it into a search engine and hit enter, the full story about Scientology is available to anyone who wants to read it. Both the Scientology website as well as critical sites are freely open for the curious reader or potential new member. With this new knowledge available, many have began to turn down offers to join and membership has fallen drastically. In 2000 the number of Scientologists in the US census was around 55,000. Today some estimates place their membership at fewer than 20,000 members. In 2008, a wave of internet driven protests began and continue to this day against Scientology presences around the world. The media and internet activists have turned the word Scientology into both a word whispered in scandalized tones as well as a punchline. Several of their "orgs" have now closed, including the one in Las Vegas and ex members have been begged to return. It would seem that the 1968 predictions of the demise of Scientology are finally starting to come true. Scientology saw the dawn of the 21st century, but will they even be remembered by the time the first quarter of it is over? Right now it would seem that the answer is probably a negative.
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37 months ago: Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, good-bye.
37 months ago: There are way more than 20,000 Scientologists.
37 months ago: Sure there are. And the tech works, despite absolutely no non-scientologists ever seeing it do so. Also, they could prove it worked if they wanted to but they don't wanna.

That cover it all Jack?
37 months ago: Also, OT powers exist despite never having been demonstrated in any kind of recorded or scientific setting.
37 months ago: "There are way more than 20,000 Scientologists."

Ya, 20,0001, maybe 20,0002.
37 months ago: Hi Jack, where are they then?
37 months ago: Well you know how the moon is pretty big? The square footage of all the ideal orgs would go all the way around the moon.
37 months ago: Keyword: "ideal"

to bad this is only a delusional fantasy.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
37 months ago: Give us the diameter of the moon and the square footage of all the ideal orgs combined.

We'll put our best mathematicians on it. And we will ask them how to figure out the number of members based upon the square footage of ideal orgs and the diameter of the moon.

And also how cheese figures into the equation...
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: Jack,

Here on planet Earth, Outside of Scientology, we use square footage to measure area not distance. Can you please explain what you are trying to say, in actual mathematical terms, not in Scientology's propaganda?
37 months ago: "If all the square feet were made into tiles, and all the tiles were touching end to end, they would reach the moon" is what i think he is trying to say. I am not defending him, and also i would like a source stating the amount of sqr footage to check it myself.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: Okay since we know the moon's diameter is 2160 miles and we know their are 5120 feet in a mile, and the circumference of a sphere is D*PI, therefore Jack is claiming Scientology will have 34,743,501 sq ft on floor space. I think Jack needs to put the crack pipe down
37 months ago: Jack: Even if that's true, and its probably not, empty buildings are not the same as members. $ciontology still has some money in the bank to be sure, but from all the accounts I've heard, these Orgs stand largely vacant. DM needs something to brag about at each large event. Things are not going well, so, they build a bunch of useless facilities to put on a show for the true believers. That's all.
37 months ago: ^don't be too harsh An Observer. Maybe it's not a crack pipe but some really good scientology vitamins if you know what I mean.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
37 months ago: Pinks and greys and lots of rum?
37 months ago: The cult of scientology may be buying big buidlings and renovating them but the truth is that these buildings remain empty of people - where are all the scientologists? Blowing the cult.
37 months ago: If this were English class, I would say that the expensive, empty building symbolize the cult: It seems nice on the outside, but on the inside it is empty and hollow. Followers or the blood of a religion and without pumping blood, you are simply a corpse.
37 months ago: The first law of LRH is, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. If you read any credible bio of this guy, that's his M.O., from a very early age. The Co$ follows its master.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: Even if they remain completely empty, I'd still like to see how he came up with Scientology having 34,743,501 sq ft of Org floor space.
37 months ago: Well, you can bet the square footage of the annonymous club-house wouldn't stretch around the block.

40 years ago they said Scientology was shrinking. Wrong. Old news.
37 months ago: Wow Jack, big man. Damn that hurt. Saying that we don't have a club house. I bet you feel validated right now, don't you? Shoot, do you write these comebacks yourself? I'm sorry that we don't scam our followers out of money like Scientology does to be able to buy a clubhouse.

"40 years ago they said Scientology was shrinking. Wrong. Old news."

You're right. It was 45 years ago. Also you're right that the cult shrinking is old news too. At least one scientologist is rational enough to admit it.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: Don't count them out yet. I think the two movie stars are holding them up. I think the cult will continue to fish in the suckers until one or both of the movie stars stands up and says, "It's a big scam. I messed up. I am really sorry.

A much younger John Travolta spoke harshly of the cult in a Rolling Stone interview which can be found on the net. The story goes that they made up a dead agent package on him that included information on his homosexuality and he clammed up, but I don't know that for sure. Anyway, I can see this cult carrying on a long time. I can also imagine the higher ups putting the money into Swiss bank accounts and disappearing tomorrow, an FBI raid on their headquarters tomorrow or the organization going into backrupcy, tomorrow. But if I was to bet, I would bet that they will be around for a long time so it is good that so many people are being vigilant to assure that decent people don't fall into their clutches.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: For Jack-- When I was in the cult, forty years ago, their literature claimed 15 million followers world wide. Today they claim 8 or 10 million depending on who is doing the claiming. Do any of the numbers have any validity at all? Is there anyway to tell how many members really exist?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: Jack,

I wouldn't know anything about an annonymous club-house, I've never even met a member of annonymous. I'd just like to know where you came up with this number
37 months ago: So what else about scientology disappearing. There gold base operations sure is getting exposed. Do any internet handlers care to explain the fence and why the part that keeps people out is facing IN and not OUT. This makes it so that people in the base could not get out.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
37 months ago: Hehehe...our clubhouse doesn't have square footage.
Our clubhouse is the internet. There's no point in trying to play "mine's bigger than yours," Jack.

A few paltry empty buildings can't measure up to our domain.

And Scientology spokesthingies have been claiming they're expanding with the 8-10 million membership number for a decade.
Ten years ago, ten million members. Today, ten million members. Exactly how is that expanding?
37 months ago: I just came from the Anon clubhouse. The furniture is ratty and it smells. And the bills are piling up. And we're outa beer. Damn...

We're still gonna outlast $cientology. Expect us...
37 months ago: Yea, instead of comparing who is the most moral organization, they compare who has the most things. You can buy power scientology but you can't buy ethics. However you can buy videos that say that you have ethics.
37 months ago: Frederick, the actual statistics of simple member numbers are not kept. Scientology measures its successes on a world scale of results.
37 months ago: So...i'm guessing you guys a pretty low on that scale then, right? I mean like Somalia pirates are probably a 9.5 on the scale while you guys are about a 0.9. This scale is like out of 10, or at least the one i'm using.
37 months ago: Let's see the Anonymous club how. Hmmm.... I suppose if you considered all major internet cabling to be our clubhouse, you could say the Anonymous clubhouse goes all around the Earth.

But hey, you could be right about the ideal orgs. I mean if you put them in a circle of any size, it will easily go around the moon if you center it on either of the poles.
37 months ago: "World Scale of Results"? What would those be, Jack? Define the terms. Scientology used to claim a certain number of members (quoted above). Now the "numbers aren't kept"? Do you expect us to believe that an organization so obsessed with numbers, with stats, with totals and (let's face it} money, doesn't keep careful track of its members? Seriously?

Not buyin' it, Jack. Too much info on the internet.

Your "church" is an organized crime cult, Jack. Deep down, you've probably realized this. I hope you've got family and/or friends you can reconnect with, because it's likely not going to last past 2010.

If you have access to an un-monitored phone, you can call 1-800-XSEAORG (1-800-973-2674). There are people on the other end of the line that will help you blow safely. No sec checks, no rout out, no freeloader debt. You can just walk away.

Also, if you can get a free non-Scn computer, check out www.exscn.net and www.exscientologykids.com. Good info there about how to safely reclaim your life, and people that have gone through what you're going through. There's hundreds of stories of people who finally got fed up with the abuses and constant, relentless regging, and just walked away.

Good luck, Jack.
bob dobbs
bob dobbs
Geneseo, NY
37 months ago: Scientology logic = Saddam Hussein > Albert Einstein because Saddam
had 200 million dollar palaces and Einstein lived in a simple house in New Jersey.

But does'nt that materialism just fill up that void in your soul?
37 months ago: Guys lets remeber that our problem is with the church, not Jack. Yes he can drive us insane sometimes but he dislikes personal attacks as much as we do. The facts that he relays to us are probably ones he picked up at an org. Get angry at the org for distributing these false statements. Jack might say them but it is the org who passes them along. Jack is just our portal to fighting with the org. We don't fight the portal, we fight what is beyond it.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: dangerranger,

Of course Jack is not the problem, however good people like Jack are the shell Scientology uses to encapsulate it's management from the public.

Jack is just trying to practice his religion, there is nothing at all wrong with that.

The management of his church however is just using people like Jack to legitimize it's money making enterprise.

Jack will remain in good standing with the management of Scientology as long as he does not stand between them and a dollar. Therefore he can only discuss topics which will not hurt Sceintology's revenue stream, if he chooses to discuss anything which may hurt the revenue stream coming to the management of Scientology there will be Hell to pay.

There is one thing everyone can agree on, Members of the Scientology, Critics, and those who do not have an opinion either way... Scientology is very focused on making money and manufacturing an image of success. I'm not sure how this ties in with spirituality, but that's another debate.
37 months ago: Suppressive persons have always attacked Scientology.
They did it in 1952, when there were only some scientology centers and you could find only books in English and they are attacking Scientology now where Scientology can be found in more than 150 countires and books are translated in more the 65 languages.

Also thanks to the internet a person can find what Scientology is all about by visiting the website http//www.scientology.org. He can read scientology books. If he wants to improve as a being he can find in Scintology the answer.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
37 months ago: "Frederick, the actual statistics of simple member numbers are not kept. Scientology measures its successes on a world scale of results."

Oh, well isn't that just SPECIAL!

An organization that is positively anal about keeping statistics doesn't keep track of its number of members?
Isn't that just conveeenient! So you can say any old thing that comes to mind (like 10 million members) and have absolutely NO data to back it up! That should tell you something right there, Jack.

Unfortunately, you're too brainwashed to get the message.
It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: "Frederick, the actual statistics of simple member numbers are not kept. Scientology measures its successes on a world scale of results"

Thanks Jack. Even back then, forty years ago, I had to be suspicious of fifteen million, just as I am suspicious when numbers are thrown around today. Personally, I think you use the numbers to convey the notion that you are a smaller group, like the Jews or Mormons, but still large enough to be something other than a fringe cult. (Part Two on the way)

Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago:

Part Two--As for results, I do see some stats that have improved. You have two movie stars who are A-listers, a third if you want to count Will Smith, and a dozen others who are well known though not quite household words. They give you a lot of credibility (except when they are making fools of themselves when doing things like jumping on a couch or embracing and kissing another man at the Hamilton airport). When scientology comes up I remind people that the movie stars are not always reasonable people. I mention that Errol Flynn was a Nazi, Mel Gibson seems to hate Jews, Michael Jackson is in a class all his own, and that O.J. and now Phil Spector are convicted killers. That plan to target celebrities from the 1950's really did bare fruit. I suspect that if not for the celebrities Hubbard's creation would have failed long ago. (Part Three on the Way)

Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: Part Three: I would guess that you have more real estate. You have more in my town, that is for sure. However, there are less people in it. Back then we had about 120 people on staff. A thousand would show up at a public event. Today only about 250 will show up at a public event. I would love to know how much of your real estate was purchased subprime with little or no money down and is now caught up in the mortgage mess that has swamped the US. I guess time will tell.

Narcanon existed back then but almost nobody had heard of it. Today, you have convinced some public organizations that it does some good.

There seem to be less course completions.

Back then people were going OT8 and it was defined as "control knowingly and at will over matter, energy, space, time, life and thought". I've been told that the definition was changed. Now the power of OT8 is diminished, more ambiguous and harder to demonstrate.

Locally, there seems to be less people coming in. Most of the members SEEM to be a little younger than me. I don't see a lot of the young people around who used to make up the bulk of the membership. I suspect that entheta on the internet is keeping them away. That's just a guess though, based on casual observation in this one city.

You also don't have many course completions in this town.

(Part Four on the Way)

Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: Part Four: On the plus side you have Clearwater (but you used to have three yachts. I believe you have one now, the Freewinds, and it is in port for the removal of its asbestos).

Hubbard, of course, is less visible in death. We are told that he is now spreading scientology to other planets. Miscavige seems to be alienating his lieutenants (McShane, Rinder and Rathbun most recently).

In days gone by you seemed to be more effective in intimidating the suppressives (like Paulette Cooper). Today there are books out like L.Ron Hubbard Messiah or Madman, The Barefaced Messiah, Religion Inc., Hollywood Interupted, The Unauthorized Biography of Tom Cruise, TV and Radio spots all over the place, an internet full of entheta, newspaper articles, and the loosely organized group of Anonymous. You are definitely downstat on the suppressives. (Part Five on the Way)

Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: Part Five: The tax office, though not the Supreme Court of the US, has judged Scientology to be a religion. Scientology is on notice through most of Europe. In Canada it is called a para-religion and is listed right beside Satanism. In Australia their Supreme Court said (and I paraphrase) that it is a calculated scam AND a religion. I suppose the two are not mutually exclusive. Back then you didn't have nearly the recognition you do now but most of that recognition is centred arount the American Tax Office.

All, in all, I would guess that you are upstat on movie stars, real estate, Clearwater, religious recognition in the US and pushing the message that you can get people off drugs. You are downstat on course completions, actual numbers, and shutting down suppression. I can see the argument that you are getting meaningful results.

I can't help but think though, that the whole game is floating on the backs of two movie stars and if even one went renegade you would be in a lot of trouble. Obviously, I am not your accountant, but I question your fiscal stability. Your leadership doesn't seem solid either-- you have no depth because you keep firing your strongest leaders. And I don't see the new people coming in. I think there is too much negative information out there now to easily find what you might call a convert.
Robyn13
Robyn13
Beverly Hills, CA
37 months ago: With 50,000 $cientologists (tops) worldwide I think there are now more critics of this nefarious cult than there are cult members.

But no, we don't have a 'clubhouse'. Of course we aren't out there conning elderly widows out of their homes, among other insidious practices either.

The fact is $cientology reached it's peak in the 80's, pre-internet and pre-sociopathic leader Davey Miscavige, and has been in a steady decline since then. Your front groups are being tossed out of various cities around the country (Albuquerque's city manager said being rid of you was a "late Christmas present"), the bad press and investigations keep coming, people are leaving your ranks in droves and you're now being mocked openly by the media.
But you do have a lot of pretty, empty buildings.

So what country lacking an extradition treaty with the U.S. do you suppose tiny Davey will flee when it all comes crashing down?
Robyn13
Robyn13
Beverly Hills, CA
37 months ago: "xenuluvr"

Your list of Scientology results is priceless. Could I re-post that on an alternate forum?
37 months ago: "Suppressive persons have always attacked Scientology."

No. People alarmed by Scientology's abuses and Gestapo tactics have always attacked Scientology. We will continue to do so.

"They did it in 1952...and they are attacking Scientology now where Scientology can be found in more than 150 countires and books are translated in more the 65 languages."

Then, now...it's still the same cult. It lies, and it hurts people, and it drains them - you, Jack - of your money, your energy, and your humanity. There's a little voice in the back of your mind telling you something is gravely wrong with your situation. Listen to it.

"Also thanks to the internet a person can find what Scientology is all about by visiting the website www.scientology.org".

A person - you - can also go to www.exscn.net and www.exscientologykids.com to read REAL stories about the harm Scientology has done to its members over the years. These are Ex-members, some with harrowing stories of their lives when they were in.

"He can read scientology books".

The Bible is free online, and in most hotel rooms. The Koran is free online. The Torah, free online.

What are you paying for your Scientology books? Is there a reason they're so expensive?

"If he wants to improve as a being he can find in Scintology the answer".

Are you improving as a being? Are the people above you in the hierarchy improving as beings? Is David Miscavige, who has a long history of physically beating his underlings, improving as a being? Think hard. Is this the life you expected?

I challenge you: visit www.exscn.net or www.exscientologykids.com. Read some stories on those sites. You can believe these people are making these stories up, but ask: Why? And why are the stories so similar?

And if you can't visit those sites, ask: Why Not?

This is America, and you're free to question. Question your current existence. Are you doing now what you set out to do in Scientology?

Are you?


An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: Scientology uses the term suppressive, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban use the term infidel, either way they both have the same meaning and these groups all have the same goal, which is to clear the planet of everyone who does not fall 100% in line with their brand of totalitarian extremism.
37 months ago: "Also thanks to the internet a person can find what Scientology is all about"

They sure can: www.xenu.net, www.youfoundthecard.com, www.scientology-kills.org, etc. etc.
37 months ago: "Well you know how the moon is pretty big? The square footage of all the ideal orgs would go all the way around the moon."

Wow, you're citing COB's preoccupation with MEST games as evidence of Scientology's success? Don't any of you Scilons ever word clear "irony"? Here's an LRH quote to help you on your way:

"If you really want to enslave people, tell them that you're going to give them total freedom."

While you're at it, you might want to ask yourselves how your selfish ego-centric pursuit of personal immortality contributes in any way whatsoever to "the greatest good across the greatest number of dynamics".

Little Davey is exploiting your greed for power and you are selling him your souls. Wake the f**k up.
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: HailMarcabia,

I've never hear of www.youfoundthecard.com, thanks for the link, I like the way the site is laid out, it makes it easy to find information, I'll be sure to pass it along to anyone that is interested in Scientology so they can get both sides of the story
37 months ago: Any scientologists reading this, consider this.

Since the 1960's and the youth revolution, the youth of America have really set the tone that defines a time, a culture, and the future. The youth of the 1960s demanded alternative lifestyles, peace, organic foods, environmentalism, etc. There will ended up changing America and if you look around today, you can see how the will of the youth really effects America.

If you look now, the youth seems more liberal, they want hope and change and becuase of that, we have Barack Obama as president.

The youth likes more material things, the urban culture, and urge for glamour and fame. If you look, people like R. Kelly, Robert Downing Jr., expenisve clothes like Calvin Klein and coach purses are all very popular, reflecting this mentality.

The youth also laughs at scientology. Stephen Colbert mocks the church on his show, and the studio and viewers at home laugh, they don't become outraged. South Park releases an episode mocking scientology and and the youth laughs at that too.

The site 4chan recieves so much traffic that it is the 4th largest website on the web. A site like this represents a large demographic of people and strongly reflects the youth culture and counter-culture. Here, people laugh at you. You cannot argue that millions of people visiting this site must all be cyber terrorists.

From my own expierence among friends and in schools, whenever people mention scientology, they look at you becuase they are puzzled at what it is, and then laugh at it.

At one of the movie awards ceremonies, Tina Fey and Steve
37 months ago: (continued)

Martin made fun of a made up religion with an alien king (obvious reference to scientology) on national television television and not only was hollywood laughing, countless people at home were laughing as well.

Scientologists might believe that they are growing and becoming more legitamite, but the people of our nation are distancing themselves scientology and at the same time moving against it. The youth culture which controls the present and sets the tone for the future is moving against the church of scientology.
37 months ago: Dear Robyn13,

And suppressive are still suppressive... just they are hiding under masks.

If those people who are against Scientlogy in 2009 would have lived in Germany 1935, would have they fought for the right of Jewes to follow their religion or worked hard to spread lies on that religion?

Suppressives are suppressives. The are suppressives in 2009, in 1952 and in 1935... some kind of beings... same reactive mind... same desire to destroy... same lack of cretive impulses...

Suppressives also attack groups that work for the betterment of the indiidual and society so that explains why they attack Scientology.

At least 2.5% of people on Earth are suppressives so that makes at least 150,000,000 persons. Some of them spread drugs, some of them kill, some work against the freedom of religion...
----------
Regarding Scientology books, a person can go in any public library and read them for free.
----------
To find more data on the characteristics of suppressives
this is the link....

http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH11_1.HTM
37 months ago: FrankG, go to your post in post in "Scientology's Violant Process R2-45. You admit yourself that scientology would like to see what they arbitrily determine are social inferiors die. You also imply scientologists are social elites. This is like the Nazis killing Jews in the Holocaust because they thought that they were inferior.

How does it feel to openly reveal your ideology is similar to that of the Nazi party in WWII Germany?
37 months ago: Also FrankG, read my above comment. I wonder how you feel that the youth culture of America is opposed to you?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: FrankG,

I can understand you following you relgion and I can certainly understand you defending your religion, so try not to take this personally, but you are a retard if you believe the random statistic L. Ron Hubbard made up of "2.5% of people on Earth are suppressives"
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
37 months ago: For Frank-- Is there anything that I can criticize about Scientology without being suppressive?
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
37 months ago: I'm beginning to suspect FrankG might be a troll. His badly spelled, poorly thought out posts are delightfully humorous.

His comparing certain masked protesters to those who oppressed the Jews (He godwinned, but somebody inevitably will eventually) is ridiculous, considering protest signs demand fair treatment and an end to the abuses in the Sea Org.

Frank, you don't need to troll to make Scientology look bad. The real scilons do a splendid job all by themselves!
Robyn13
Robyn13
Beverly Hills, CA
37 months ago: And speaking of Nazis Frank, a little side by side comparison that you may find interesting:

Nazis / Scientology
Had concentration camps Has concentration camps (RPF)
Militaristic structure Militaristic structure (especially in the Sea Org)
Espionage organisations (Gestapo) Espionage organisations (GO B1, OSA) ©
Charismatic ruler who inspired fervour (Hitler) Charismatic ruler who inspired fervour (Hubbard)
Military uniforms Military (naval) uniforms
Short, pompous leader (Hitler) Short, pompous leader (Miscavige)
Looked down on Jews Look down on Wogs
Hitler believed blacks to be subhuman Hubbard believed blacks to be subhuman
Aryans believed to be supermen Clears and OTs believed to have supernormal powers
German citizens encouraged to join Nazi party Scientologists encouraged to join staff and Sea Org
Disliked having their policies (death camps, etc.) become public knowledge Dislike having their policies (RPF, etc.) become public knowledge
Intended to conquer the entire planet Intend to conquer the entire planet
Absolute loyalty demanded of party members Absolute loyalty demanded of members
Party members forbidden to have relationships with Jews Members forced to disconnect from SPs
Founder wrote a book (Mein Kampf) viewed as a blueprint and foundation. Founder wrote a book (Dianetics) viewed as a blueprint and foundation.
Appropriated a religious symbol from another source (the fylfot, or swastika). Appropriated a religious symbol from another source (Aleister Crowley's "crossed-out cross").
Thought nothing of harming Jews Think nothing of harming SPs
Robyn13
Robyn13
Beverly Hills, CA
37 months ago: Thanks xenuluvr :)
37 months ago: It's Thurday here and almost Thursday in Jack-Land.
:)
37 months ago: I'll just add a few comments, this thread entertained me immensley.

Firstly re "The vanishing world of L. Ron Hubbard".
Its vanishing constantly. His words, claims-to-fame, his history, him being a "War Hero" are all slowly being edited out of the corporation's "sacred scripture which must never be altered". Why would that be I wonder.

Secondly: I have still yet to see a discussion offered by a cult member other than quoting Hubbard's dross and providing "eveidence" by linking to cult sites.

Thirdly: Your cult teaches you that anyone who is critical of scientology is a criminal, or an ex-member who wasn't able to apply the "tech". Do you not in any way find it odd that a "religion" has to attack critisism with such blatant falsehoods? Do you not find it weird to have to constanly repeat the same old stuff over and over.. "Religious Biggot" , "You're like the Nazis" etc.

I know it must feel happy and safe up there in Cloud Cuckoo Land but here are some real-world facts, not made-up "facts" such as those handed down to you but real, verifiable facts....

1/ scientology has at most 50 to 60 thousand members worldwide.
2/ scientology is not winning it's imaginary battle with "the evil psychs"
3/ the cults buldings, especially the hilarious IdealOrg-Scam, are mostly empty.
4/ it is not a religion. it is a money making corporate entity as provable by a multitude of Court Documents from countries worldwide where it is legally considered a fraud.

Finally. To the cult-PR-merchants: Have you actually read "Science of Survival" yet if your'e allowed to?
An Observer
An Observer
Garrettsville, OH
37 months ago: Xenuluvr and Danger,

I don't necessarily think it's the youth culture as much it is anyone with internet access.

Scientology has been exposed ... the irrelevance on their mission has been exposed, the irrelevance on their members has been exposed, irrelevance on their founder has been exposed, and the irrelevance on it's entire organization has been exposed.

The media is longer afraid of their inept attack machine, and is willing not only expose the dangers of their cult, but the lunacy of it's wholesale paranoia regarding anyone who questions it's exaggerations and flat out lies.

No amount of PR, or shiny new face lifts on buildings will change that. The contents of the religion and it's building still remain the same.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
37 months ago: Scientology still enjoys a measure of success where local and state politicians are concerned. This is due, in part, to the incredible work load placed upon these people, limiting time spent researching programs that come across their desk. Then too, one must not forget the insidious web of Scientologists who deliberately seek out opinion leaders as per Hubbard's directive.

Nobody wants to turn away a willing volunteer, and we see Scientologists getting involved in local communities; from working with the police departments and social betterment groups to human rights and interfaith organizations.

Scientologists involved with the National Foundation of Women Legislators have turned this august organization into a joke as gullible, ignorant legislators tout Scientology front groups to their home states. Utah and New Mexico are two good examples of this.

In Utah, a program involving Scientology's medically dangerous Purification Rundown has been accepted to "treat" police officers exposed to meth lab chemicals.

In New Mexico, another front group, Second Chance, was recently expelled; not because of the hazards of the program, but because there were violations of the agreement with the state. A month later, Second Chance appeared in Hawaii, trying again to get its program on the public money gravy train.

Despite abundant scientific and medical reviews of the Purification Rundown, officials choose to rely instead on unsubstantiated testimonials from clients who completed the program.

Until authorities can be convinced to look at the science rather than anecdotal "proof" that these programs work, citizens will have to continue playing 'Whack-A-Mole' to prevent their tax dollars being wasted on this junk science snake oil.
37 months ago: http://vimeo.com/1930770
37 months ago: Too funny, people. Really, too funny. It is to laugh. If you look at it, you'll find "Hubbard's world" becoming implemented as per his prediction: A world without insanity and war, where honest men (meaning mankind and including women) can prosper.
37 months ago: Yeah you're right Terryo we are on the road to a world without insanity. I mean once scientology is gone we'll have one less group of nut cases in the world.
37 months ago: Why don't you define "insanity" for us, Nikolai? And in some way besides "lack of sanity".

Russia, particularly, is known to use that excuse to hospitalize capable people who speak freely. A certain Chess Grand Master comes to mind. He is obviously a bright fellow, but didn't agree with Russian politics. Was forced to a psychiatric hospital where he was drugged to much to care. And today, certainly can not play chess as he once did.
37 months ago: "Russia, particularly, is known to use that excuse to hospitalize capable people who speak freely."

I want proof. Proof of this from current Russia, not Soviet Russia.

"A certain Chess Grand Master comes to mind. He is obviously a bright fellow, but didn't agree with Russian politics. Was forced to a psychiatric hospital where he was drugged to much to care"

Name and a souce please.
37 months ago: Dangeranger, you have hassled me and name called across a number of articles. I don't owe you any proof. Go look it up yourself or dismiss it. My statement is, psychiatry is used as a tool of the State in today's Russian, and for the past few years. As a tool of the state, influential free speakers are pumped into the psychiatry system, hospitalized and become unable to speak out as they once did, due to being "treated".
37 months ago: " I don't owe you any proof. Go look it up yourself or dismiss it."

I bet logic like that always holds up in intellectual debates and court cases.

" As a tool of the state, influential free speakers are pumped into the psychiatry system, hospitalized and become unable to speak out as they once did, due to being "treated"."

Sources please. Even one incident would be nice.
37 months ago: Are you still working on those sources Terryeo, or trying to find better logic?
37 months ago: I'm fine, dangerrranger. I don't intend to find you any proof. Psychiatry has been used for years by governments, as a method to get dissenters out of the way.
37 months ago: "I don't need proof" is the mantra of the Scientologist.

"Study of Science" my foot.
37 months ago: So Terryeo, still using the logic that "If i don't like the person, I don't need to support my arguments with facts and proof."

Does this logic make you feel intelligent? Better yet, does this logic make your argumants correct?

Just becuase you don't like the person your debating with doesn't mean that you have to be childish and not show your proof.
35 months ago: I guess i win terryeo
35 months ago: Time after time I see critics spoof at proof with belittling posts. But Scientology's only "proof" is measured, as Ron Hubbard measured his first adherents. By improved, happier people, better families, more prosperous pre-clears. These are the measures he used. And are the reason the Church is growing. And, apparently, are the reason critics demand proof and disparage and belittle. Life goes on.
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
35 months ago: If there is any "proof" at all, it is that Scientology doesn't work, and it hurts people.
Like Stephen Brackett, who donated a million bucks to the organization last year. Formerly engaged to Scientologist Nancy Cartwright, he elronically ended his life by jumping off a bridge in Big Sur last week. He was plagued with financial problems.
Scientology sure helped that OT with that, didn't it.

If there is any "proof," one only need look at the recent lawsuits by Marc and Claire Headley and Laura Decrescenzo.
And France, where the little poulets are running scared because they might get a criminal dissolution order by the courts.

Bon Voyage, Scientologie! If it is so wonderful and good, why all the suicides and lawsuits?
35 months ago: Vanishingly small numbers of lawsuits, and you don't get a clue. HMMMM The Church buying up multimillion dollar properties and paying cash, and you don't get a clue. HMMM Statements about opening Celebrity Centers in Nashville and Las Vegas and you don't get a clue. HMMM Release of OTVIII and you don't get a clue. HMMM Thousands of books in many languages, donated to thousands of public libraries, and you don't get a clue. HMMM Thousands of Volunteer Ministers showing up at natural disaster sites across the planet and you don't get a clue. HMMM Recognition of the Church of Scientology by the governments of Spain and Portugal and you don't get a clue. HMMM The portion of the German Government that specializes, recommending the Church not be prosecuted, and you don't get a clue. Shall I go on?
xenubarb
xenubarb
San Diego, CA
35 months ago: Increasing lawsuits.
Empty properties.
Libraries tossing Hubbard's dreck in the bin, not the shelves.
France taking a huge step that might lead to a total ban.
Germany still collecting evidence.

Who doesn't have a clue? LOL!
35 months ago: I suppose you will continue to criticize no matter how large or recognized the subject of your criticism. As with movie stars, success attracts critics.
34 months ago: "I suppose you will continue to criticize no matter how large or recognized the subject of your criticism."

Just becuase it's big doesn't mean it shouldn't be critisized. Look at the USA, its huge. Yet it is still a free subject to critisize.

Even though socialism is a recognized subject doesn't mean that its free from critisism.

"As with movie stars, success attracts critics."

If you are using this as an analogy that the success of the church has attracted critics, then I am sorry that you are so misinformed.

We are not jealous of the church, we are angered by it. We are angered by it's fair game policy that adminsters vendetta-style justice to church detractors. We are angered by its religious camps (like Gold Base) that run like Russian Gulags. We are angered by the Churche's ability to take over city's (like Clearwater) and make it into a cold heartless city. We are angered by how the church sells its brand of truth for $300,000. We are angered that the Church has directly or indirectly killed people like Lisa McPherson, Jett Travolta, Heribert Pfaff, and many more.

THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
33 months ago: LRH's own words prove the world's claims against Scientology
"Scientology...is not a religion." - L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251.
Here is just .oo1 percent of the stuff you are not told.
LRH used God's Natural laws to make slaves of mankind!
"So long as a physiological phenomenon remains the knowledge of a few and is denied to the many it can be utilized to control the many." LRH (from Journal of Scientology Issue 4-G from Oct. 1952)
"This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we've got some new ways to make slaves here." LRH (from PDC tape lecture #20 "Formative State of Scientology, Definition of Logic", given on 6 Dec 52)
"All men shall be my slaves! LRH
All women shall submit to my charms! LRH
All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!" [L. Ron Hubbard, "Affirmations", late 1940s] Affirmations, exhibits 500-4D, E, F & G. See Church of Scientology v Armstrong, transcript volume 11, p.1886.
"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'.
By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not."
L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966
"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM". You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them." - L. Ron Hubbard,

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