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The War On Christmas... Seriously?

Posted 17 months ago|176 comments|1,665 views
War on Christmas is a war on logic!
VIDEOS
Written by
"...about the "war on Christmas" supposedly being waged in the nation's malls and chain stores. Now comes the latest evidence that Christmas is indeed winning the war."
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...

Who is the ones really "waging the war" ...less than 5% of the population doesn't celebrate Christmas... and it is even less than that that have a problem with public celebration of it. Approximately 1% as far as I can tell have a problem... like in my other post "Students 'Occupy Christmas'" it is time for the silent mass-majority to tell those party-pooping grinches they should be more tolerant.

"'Modern Grinches' Step Up Anti-Christmas Efforts... Atheist groups have been vocal during this Christmas season, hoping to keep the birth of Jesus out of the lime light."
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/Decem...

"Majority OK With Public Nativity Scenes...
Almost all Americans celebrate Christmas (96 percent)"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1052...

"Retailers Re-Embrace Christmas...Big chains aren't as timid as they once were to market by wishing their customers a "Merry Christmas" instead of the bland "Happy Holidays."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/...

What is it with this hatred for Jesus? Most of the population celebrates Christmas, and enjoys the traditional family outings and parties... dang, Mr. Atheist... lighten up!! You sure put up quite the fight against a "fairytale" as you put it... why don't you boycott Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? OR maybe you could slam a little Petter Pan??? That's right, those are just fairytales... and Jesus Christ is really the Savior of the World. I guess the offspring of Herod is still with us today... merchants should beware, they may rid stores of any remaining dolls under two year-old appearance by national edict!

Constitutionalists make a point... the Constitution doesn't make reference to public Christmas displays or it's celebration, also it doesn't include "separation of church and state" any place in the document. So, in the absence of such verbiage, according to the Tenth Amendment, any ruling on the matter should be left to the individual states or to the majority of the people.... who are obviously in 96% agreement.

Try as Athiests may, they will never erase Jesus from the History books...
Jesus said... "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away"
...2011 years later it's still true... that's some mighty powerful words!

I think it's time for the Grinch to grow up... this war on Christmas is more a war on logic.
UPDATE - 13 months ago
"Don't Waste Your Life" by John Piper
http://dwynrhh6bluza.cloudfront.net/reso...
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COMMENTS
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: "Constitution doesn't make reference to public Christmas displays or it's celebration, also it doesn't include "separation of church and state" any place in the document. So, in the absence of such verbiage, according to the Tenth Amendment, any ruling on the matter should be left to the individual states or to the majority of the people.... who are obviously in 96% agreement."

I would like to address this point from a Constitutional standpoint. I would like to preface this by adding that as I said in other posts on this site, I personally have no issue with Christmas displays so long as the Federal or State government is not funding them.

Constitutionally you are wrong. The 1st Amendment of the Constitution clearly states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Combined with the following statements from Jefferson and Madison:

Jefferson in a letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association explaining the 1st Amendment:

"wall of separation between church and State"

Madison also wrote his interpretation of the 1st Amendment:

"Strongly guarded is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States."


Of further importance is the 14th Amendment: The Bill of Rights was incorporated against the states by this Amendment. Specifically noted in the legislation and in Supreme Court Precedence (See Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947)) is the 1st Amendment's Religion Clauses. The 14th Amendment makes it UnConstitutional for a state to endorse any one religion. States do not have the right to establish a religion, nor can the prevent the free exercise thereof. For example, many states allow for various groups to put up holiday displays in the Capitol buildings or area around them. So long as the state is not paying for any part of it then there is no issue.

As far as your article goes, saying merry christmas is not offensive to me...
17 months ago: PH,

How many historical figures that you know of, are celebrated with Federal or State monies? I am not saying that's the way it should be... just the way it is. So when the democratic majority puts up decorations, like in the case of historical national figures, what seems to be the problem?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I'm not sure that I understand but I will address it, if I am off base please let me know.

Historical Figures, such as Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington? I assume you are referring to. Celebrating these figures does not, to my knowledge, establish or endorse a particular religion but rather a figure who was key in our nation's development (Founding, Maintaining and Civilizing (in reverse order of my list)). I'm not sure where the argument lies between a MLK parade and the endorsement of Christianity (or any other religion) by a state or federal government?
17 months ago: Is not the Historical Jesus Christ... "a figure who was key in your nation's development" ...and still is today? As to the "establishment of religion, no teachings are upheld or enforced by the celebrations on a token 25th of December. This is why all faiths enjoy this date to the tune of 96% of the population. Damage to the American Constitution comes not with the decorations at any given holiday... rather the common practices of tyrannical forces within the establishment everyday.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Well, in my State the Town Hall had to take down the Navity Scene that was displayed. It hasn't had one for years.
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17 months ago: PH,

You also said... "Madison also wrote his interpretation of the 1st Amendment:
"Strongly guarded is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." ...really? IS this why you have government funded religious "origins of species" ...this pseudo science of macro-evolution is a belief that man came from apes who came from.... dirt.
Creationism is a belief that man came from dirt by God's design.

BOTH religious views, but only one (Darwinism) is funded by your Federal and State governments... so where is your outrage????
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: Evolution/Darwinism is accepted scientific fact

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolutio...

The fact that it is called the Theory of Evolution and the fact that people use that as an excuse for why its not fact show that they know very little about science.

A theory in science is a well tested and prove hypothesis. Evolution, no matter how much you want it to be "wrong" is accepted as scientific fact. You and I can politely agree to disagree on this issue as we will clearly never come to common ground on it. The thought that a chemical reaction started the chain of events makes as much sense to me as the idea of an invisible all powerful deity created it does to you...and they sound just as nuts to both of us in the opposite comparison. I respect your right to think how you want based on your religious choices...but you cannot argue that evolution is scientific fact (You can argue about what started it Big Bang type theory vs. Creationism).
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect ...Because our life spans are so short, it is difficult to really get a grip on anything. I think all things are possible, but we just don't know for sure and people are divided on evolution.
17 months ago: PH,

Are you saying that something that there is no empirical evidence for apes evolving to man... other than mythological reference in outdated "science" books. The reason that it is called a Theory is because it cannot be reproduced nor verified in a laboratory... nor do we have this mythological transition apparent today.

For more evidence for evolution see...
http://www.rantrave.com/Rave/Evidence-Fo...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: But we have very advanced carbon dating technology that tells us how old certain things are. From skeletal remains it is clear that creatures have evolved into different creatures. I am proposing that we as human beings know and understand that evolution happened. That is not the argument. The real argument stems from a disagreement based on 1 tiny moment in time: Creation. Some people believe that an all powerful deity created life and that it went from there. Others believe that it was simply chemical reactions that occurred out of luck based on proper conditions.
17 months ago: PH,

I get what you are saying, I am not talking about the "big bang" ...I am talking about "father Orangutan" ...no evidence only theory... faith not fact! And that religion is paid for by the State.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: Again you are wrong. Theory in science does not mean what you assert it does.

A theory in science is a hypothesis that has been tested SIGNIFICANTLY and proven to be true. It has been reproduced. It has been verified.

Fossil record proves the evolution the Hominidae family of the Primate Order. It is very simple to understand. The fact that you believe that God created the initial life does not in anyway refute or make it impossible for evolution to have occurred. As I said the argument is that of the moment of creation, not of the evolution thereafter. UNLESS you are one of those people who truly believe that "God" snapped his fingers and made us as we are today...which is a totally different argument that can be disproved instantaneously based on the age of the earth argument (should you believe this then according to you the earth would be about 6000 years old correct?) Of course I think you are far too reasonable to believe the latter.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: "Father Orangutan" that would be a separate species, but fossil records prove this. I realize that there has been an ages old war between science and religion...but this is not part of that argument. This is proven beyond doubt.
17 months ago: PH,

I am impressed how you are holding down two debates simultaneously... you are still wrong... but I am impressed !:]

Other debate...
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Muslim-Brot...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: Do some research on the human genome sequence. Humans are incredibly closely related to chimpanzees. DNA and genome sequencing shows that we are more closely related to other humans than a chimpanzee, BUT we are FAR more closely related than a mouse is to a rat for example.
17 months ago:
"separate species" ...so are pigs! "The use of pig lungs in transplants into humans has moved a step closer with a medical breakthrough." ...so which is it?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Species have changed by evolution over millions of years. Science is also baffled by findings and does not have all the answers. That is why some scientist believe in God. They don't have all the answers.
I wouldn't bet on the cockroach though changing. It has been here millions of years. Why is a whale a mammal?
Sooner or later one species or another becomes extinct, and without the help of the human species they will be gone. Why has a shark been around for millions of years without change? We just don't have the answers.
So far it hasn't happened to man. Why?
I don't know. Sometimes I like apes better than people. LOL
17 months ago: And why are there NO successful ape/chimp-human transplants?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I never asserted that science has all the answers, that would be nearly impossible. I simply am saying that for me, their answers are far more compelling than those offered by religion (of course this may be related to the fact that I am an atheist).
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Isn't a pig's skin similar to a humans skin or very close to it?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: Which debate am I wrong about?

I have clearly demonstrated that outside of the "Lawgivers" sculpture that the numerals 1-10 were and are representative of the Bill of Rights.

In this argument there is no proof of wrong or right for the moment of creation. I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. I cannot prove the big bang happened and you cannot prove that God exists and even if he did you could not prove that he started the creation.

If you are asserting that I am wrong about the idea that Evolution is accepted as scientific fact then I am clearly right. There are extensive (although incomplete) data that prove that species have evolved. Your belief in God is not challenged by the fact that species have evolved.
17 months ago: PH,

micro evolution within animals of like kind, we agree on... where you are wrong (if in fact you believe the following) is on the religious notion that humans evolved from apes/chimps whatever. Whether that kind of macro-evolution is "accepted" by other religious nuts, doesn't prove a thing; rather it proves a point that can be drawn from this post... the State only pays for their own religion.

With your avoidance on the particular issue of man kind evolving from "monkeys" ...could it be that you doubt whether they did? I can agree that many species evolved within their kind (micro-evolution) just not from one kind to another (macro-evolution). It would be helpful to know specifically what you believe on this topic so we can continue on this thread of the discussion...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: "I simply am saying that for me, their answers are far more compelling than those offered by religion"

Right. Thanks. Because evolution is not in its entirety scientific fact. It is scientific hypothesis at best. We have witnessed some mutation, and have done some selective breeding, but that in no way proves the main tenets of evolutionary conjecture.

And carbon dating assumes that carbon has been constant in the way it behaves for all of time.
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17 months ago: PH,

The bottom-line is all you guys cry "FOUL" and say that's religion when we say intelligent design... because we cannot produce God in a lab....

Yet when you are asked to merely produce a human from a chimp in a lab (with all the raw materials) AND YOU CAN'T ...you call that SCIENCE??? and you wonder why Christians are antagonistic to that kind of pseudo science, that we are not supposed to in any way question??? Don't call mine faith and yours science!
17 months ago: PH,

You stated... "I simply am saying that for me, their answers are far more compelling than those offered by religion (of course this may be related to the fact that I am an atheist)." ... interesting, it seems you reject the science if it leans to a belief in God, because you "know" He doesn't exist? Does that sum it up??
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect. Because science is always questioning, exploring and relating to fact for answers, doesn't mean that there is something else. Many scientist don't believe in a spiritual existence, but many do, because they see the enormity of creation as it is.
If you don't believe in God, who am I to judge. Many people don't, and it is their business. My question is why there is so much anger toward people who do believe?
If Christians believe in His reality and truths, there is some reason they have come into that knowledge and perception. Pure science is fact, pure religion is fact to believers, but we are asked to have faith. Scientist have faith in the unknown and that is what drives them. So, we are similar. Both are meant to accomplish something by faith.
Faith can bring about change in lives. Science sticks to the very facts outside of the human heart. The thing is, humans do have hearts, and souls and spirits that are always searching for God aside from science. This spirit does exist in human nature, so it has to be explored just like people of science explore the unknown. That is the best I can come up with.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I hate to say this, but I have seen it written and heard many times over, for instance, George Washington, was depicted in the painting in the Rotunda of the Capitol building in Washington, DC as elevating to a god-like figure. GW was a free mason. The arcitecture of the building is symbolic of the Masons. We see the Capitol as I always thought of it as the seat of Democracy. Did you know that the building aligned with heavenly bodies. There is occult numerolgy connected with it and spiritual energy. Our Founding Fathers putut a lot of significance into this as Free Masons. Also, the cornerstone of the Building was placed with Masonic Honors. Not all strict politics played a part in this rise in power.
17 months ago: Sunny,

I wonder how much money was siphoned off to pay for that religion??
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Enough to keep it trickling down the generations and make the rich get richer.
17 months ago: Thanks Sunny for bringing this up...

Forget a few Christmas decorations... Washington DC is entirely laid out in Masonic religious fashion and design...

"Mystical Sites – U.S. Capitol... At the center of it all is George Washington, a 33rd degree Freemason being anointed as the "American Christ"."
http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites...
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: The entire alignment of significant memorials. Some Free Masons changed and followed Jesus.
The Heirloom Bible publishes a Master Reference Edition of the Holy Bible, King James Version, exclusively for Freemasonry. Freemasons are illustrated by symbols.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: There has been suggestions of inter breeding with apes.
It is very interesting how an ape will want to get very close to its zoo keeper that takes care of them.
That's a tough one for me.
Humans have one fewer pair of chromosomes than apes.
Not too long ago I went to the Bronx Zoo at night where we observed apes in a simulated habitat behind glass. They look like they are always thinking. I've seen them bash the observation glass when they feel someone is challenging them.
17 months ago: IF just minor changes in structure or deficiencies in chromosomes are fatal or irreparable, matching human to any animal would be absolutely incompatible...
that is why we don't see people breeding with any animals, nor the compatibility between human and animal organ transplants.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: It doesn't stop mad men from trying.
Humans and mice are both mammals and share most of their major organ systems. Mice have hearts, livers, stomachs, lungs, intestines and brains, and reproductive organs like people.
This is why they are used in scientific experiments.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Pretty close to humans in nature.
17 months ago: Let's not forget the fact that the Aliens are watching and have been genetically modifying the apes with their own dna for centuries. Why do you think your a tad bit on the gray shade as opposed to a freaking baboon? Although, some of you might still enjoy the rainbow butt features.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Yep, you say that in jest, but there are many people who can wrap that up into the same ball as the evolution hypothesis. I know of at least two in recent RantRave history that are open to abiogenesis, evolution AND alien influence. Can't prove it, it's just what they choose to believe.

But somehow they just can't admit to a possibility of God doing it.

17 months ago: For the "scientific" mind (lacking a god) "E.T." becomes attractive to answer the former unanswerable things posed by evolution... somehow the god of evolution emerges from the primordial soup in a spaceship! See, now that's something they can produce in a lab... well NASA's lab anyway !:]
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I'm going to bite a little bit on this one.

"Can't prove it, it's just what they choose to believe."
~~I challenge you with the same statement above in relation to your belief in God
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: My point exactly.
17 months ago: Goody! Can I get in on this one too?

In order to prove to someone that I had an encounter with a doctor in 1989 (after a ruptured bowel and massive internal bleeding... is show up alive. All I need to do to show I had an encounter with God in 1982 (after being suicidal, and saved through a lady's premonition)... is the same, show up alive and no longer suicidal or self-destructive! I don't have to produce God... just His handiwork !:]
17 months ago: All the evolutionists have to do is produce a man from a monkey... Oh, maybe they already have... or at least the other way in Dawkins !:]
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: If you honestly think for even 1 second that I'm going to buy that then I would strongly suggest that you also try to sell me some ocean front property in Arizona...
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: You said it. Live and learn every single day.
They say there is always an angel to comfort us.
Apparently you have met one.
In regards to aliens, people are kind of strange looking beings. LOL
Your experience your journey with God without having to see Him.
Some of us learn that and some of us it takes longer. I remember a man who was physically twisted from disability. He traveled to Lourdes on a pilgrimage to heal. He was healed when he bathed in the waters. He didn't need his wheelchair any longer. He still didn't believe he was cured by God.
To each his own.
.
17 months ago: Nice diversion PH!

There are millions of lives changed for the better as very tangible evidence to those with eyes... yes faith is part of that, and you have already admitted your faith lies in evolution... so you have seen monkeys turn to humans? Or is it the other way around... I used to resemble that remark!
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I have eyes. I can look at the fossil record and see that it is overwhelmingly apparent that evolution occurred. It doesn't happen over night, it happened over millions and millions of years.

I am still awaiting the day that anyone can prove the existence of any Deity (god or otherwise) existing without the use of the bible or cute little anecdotal stories about a life change (these are always easily explained by psychology).
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I think Jesus proved himself when he was here, and he was here.
Our religion as Christians is based solely on faith, we don't ask for proof of the extistence of God. We were already told. I don't think psychology can explain healing. This is the difference between the wonder of science. We don't need to wonder about who our creator is. That's why I say science, God, its all one because it had to be created somewhere at some time. Not necessarily someone snapping their fingers.
It is too big for us to comprehend. Too much knowledge, too soon, is not a good thing. We couldn't handle it. Science to me is here to satisfy the curiousity of people. People are meant to learn and expand because of the vastness of their minds. Nothing to do with whether God exist, or not. Doesn't matter if one believes, or not. I don't think that is significant what we think. It just is.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I realize that Christians don't ask for proof, but I do. The primary reason I don't believe is that there are just too many stories. Why should I believe the story a Christian tells me instead of one a Buddhist Monk tells me? What makes the Christian story more real than that of the Hindu faith? Judaism? What about the Mormons? Jehova's Witnesses? What says that the Pagans are wrong? Pantheists? There dozens of religions, each claiming the absolute truth, none with a shred of evidence that they are right and others are wrong...I have no reason to believe any, and when I got the point where I realized that there are so many different stories and each so different from the next that is when my eyes truly opened to the fact that they are just that...stories.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: That said...I respect the right of each and every person to believe what they want, for that is the very foundation of liberty.
17 months ago: PH,

You said... "I can look at the fossil record and see that it is overwhelmingly apparent that evolution occurred. It doesn't happen over night, it happened over millions and millions of years" ...what if it was RAPID deposition, and RAPID erosion like what happened at Mount St. Helens...

"As a result of the volcanic eruptions, thick deposits of fine laminate accumulated that were later eroded into large canyons. Uniformitarian geologists have long claimed that these features, which are common to earth's geology, were accomplished over great lengths of time. The rapid production of these formations at Mt. St. Helens provided evidence that catastrophic flood geology, such as those ongoing during the Biblical global flood, could instead be responsible."
http://creationwiki.org/Mount_St._Helens
17 months ago: Your eyes see "millions of years" when in fact recent events prove rapid formation... what do you do with that verifiable physical proof?
17 months ago: PH. If your hanging out with "Christians" that are trying to force Christ upon you. Your not hanging out with Christians. Accepting Christ is a personal choice that should not be influenced by man. It would be a contract between you, Christ and the Almighty.

Your choice in faith of God or your choice in science of man. No skin off my nose.
17 months ago: PH,

as to psychology having the answer... it does explain "cute little anecdotal stories" with cause and effect! I think you can believe any story from an honest person whether it be religious or not... experience cannot be debated, and most can tell you the source of that experience.... if they say it was due to meditation... it is. IF I honestly tell you that the direction of my life was changed and maintained by a force outside of my mind will and emotions... it has.... or I am a liar. This is why character witnesses in courts are so necessary and admissible.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: If I remember correctly the poor and pagans were given the day of Christmas from a king. This is how it originated. You have to research the details.
I understand your thinking. All religions, no matter what, look toward something or someone because inside they don't want life as we know it to be final. If we have so much now, and exist in life in the moment, then you have to realize more because we aren't finished with what we have to do. Life is very short as we know it. I think there is some truth in all religions. I think that some people have experienced enough to be closer to their God. If you think about it, we are here, but we came from somewhere. We just don't know, but we hope for more.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Very true. That's why you are smart. Smart people question. Nothing wrong with that. I like my liberty, but I love Christmas.
The song Aspen Glow is a beautiful song to listen to when the snow falls on Christmas Day. I was there in the middle of Aspen when the snow fell, and I had this special day. It's all beautiful. That is what it is about.
17 months ago: Dunno. You got an extra 2 million lying around for the purchace of a porta-pottie located on prime real estate in California? Might want to jump in on this offer. Only 2 left. Seems that California is going down the toilet and everyone wants in on this ground floor offer.
17 months ago: Fossil records? Really? Can you date them? You want to try this one and include the "Great Flood"?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I can see your point.

I think the thing that really bothers me is that people of all faiths (although in this country it is largely Christians) have a tendency to have an attitude that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This is generally because it is their personal faith and they want to defend it. I get that, but it is also the part that really bothers me. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can prove that a deity of any kind exists...there are so many different religions that all claim absolute knowledge...and none of them tell the same story...confidence is good, but arrogance in this respect is close to offensive
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: "...I am still awaiting the day that anyone can prove the existence of any Deity... "

That day is coming. From the looks of things...soon. The bad part is, once there is an empirical proving....according to scripture, He cannot show himself to mortal man without destroying him. Jesus had to come in mortal form to provide a direct link to God, and also to be a buffer/filter from the awesome power that is God.

I paraphrased the immediately preceding comment to read as follow:

I think the thing that really bothers me is that people of all Sciences (although in this country it is largely Evolutionists) have a tendency to have an attitude that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This is generally because it is their personal faith and they want to defend it. I get that, but it is also the part that really bothers me. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can prove that abiogenisis or macroevolution exists...there are so many different camps in the Sciences that claim to have absolute knowledge....and none of them tell the same story...confidence is good, but arrogance in this respect is close to offensive.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: So, in an attempt to differ the pressure of not being able to prove the existence of a deity (in this case the Christian version of the God of Abraham) you say that by doing so he would have to kill me???

As for the paraphrased section: The difference is that there is actual empirical proof of what scientists say...Christians choose to ignore it because it goes against their most deeply rooted beliefs that "God" did it.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I don't know how anyone could claim absolute knowledge. That's ridiculous.
The scripture that you refer to "He cannot show himself to mortal man without destroying him," I've heard before. I think God has come to man many times in many ways and has showed himself and no one has been destroyed. That is sort of defeating the purpose killing off his children. I wonder who wrote it. This planet and the people are so vulnerable every day, and yet it goes on for millions of years.
17 months ago: PH,

You said... "So, in an attempt to differ the pressure of not being able to prove the existence of a deity (in this case the Christian version of the God of Abraham) you say that by doing so he would have to kill me???" ...no that's not what's being said, it is just that the next time we see Him (Jesus) it will be in Judgement, and not as He came the first time in Grace....

"But he (Jesus) has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (Hebrews 9:26-28)

...when God showed Himself in all His Glory to Moses, He made it clear that He would let no one see His glorified face... this is why God came in the flesh, so we could identify with Him and He with us.

"And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The LORD.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live." And the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock, and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33:19-23)
17 months ago: PH,

You say... "there are so many different religions that all claim absolute knowledge" ...but in actuality as followers of Christ we don't claim anything but Jesus' absolute knowledge, and that differs from ALL other religions... they never claim an all-knowing savior or path to righteousness, but Jesus Christ on the other hand does...

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

Jesus also said... "All who have come before me are thieves and robbers" ...Wow! that is either really arrogant, deluded or the truth! Jesus as God claims total power truth and life, He cannot remain a "good teacher" if He is a bloody liar! He leaves us no options other than that, either truth or lie.

"Therefore Jesus said again, "Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (John 10:7-10)
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Making Christmas a Federal holiday (by Congress and President Ulysses S. Grant in 1870) and paying millions of State and Federal government employees full salary for staying home...sounds like ....what? Sounds like government endorsed religion to me. How many billions of taxpayer dollars do you think that costs every year?

But would it be fair to stop this practice? Tens of millions of private sector employees get paid for Christmas day.

17 months ago: OOTB,

Maybe this is where it is leading... more cut-backs! It could be that "they" have already figured this out, and the 1% (Atheists) are ready to put the screws to the 96% Christmas celebrating democratic public.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: I'd not like to see them try. There are far too many. It wouldn't be pretty.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: That's right, and it is only one day a year.
Federal employees not getting paid would be unfair. That would bring us to the Scrooge syndrome. There are other holidays that not everyone celebrates and everyone gets the day off and paid.
Even if it had nothing to do with religion, people need that break.
Also, people need to have some joy in life and look forward to that time to being with friends and family, and they have fun. It brings people together and happy at this time of year.
Plus, the economy gets a big boost.
Many corporations shut down that week until 1/2. It saves them money on electric and fuel to heat up these buildings. Everyone is getting something out of it.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: A few things. Ulysses S Grant is one of the top 5 worst presidents ever (just an aside)

The fact that Christmas is a federal holiday is an insult to the Constitution...but it is something that happens in a democratic society...majorities rule, no matter how much protection the minorities are given. Most people are Christian in this country...they want their holy day to be a holiday and guess what...it is.
sunny2
sunny2
Content Removed by sunny2
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect, not to be opposed to you.
In defense of Christmas being a Holy Day and a Federal Holiday, every day is a holy day for Christians, and also other religions get that paid day off too from their employment.
I'm interested in science just like the next person, but science does not fill up space with LOVE as belief in God does. Science is a big cold void out there to be explored. It's empty and who knows what lurks out there. Our Holy day is filled with love and warmth and the spreading of good will. What more would anyone want or trade it for. Sitting at home alone, with no family or hope or belief. I wouldn't trade that happiness and joy away we receive on Christmas. I look forward to a beautiful Christmas Dinner and family around a table celebrating the birth of their maker. But again, everyone has a right to their own beliefs
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: By all means, be opposed to me :D We can have a discussion, that is the point of this site.

If I may:

You say every day is a holy day for Christians...ok that seems fair, but why then do you need a national holiday to recognize it? I'm not arguing that it is right or wrong...just a question.

I see my family all the time...I don't need a special day to have dinner with them. That is a product of my relative near proximity to them, I realize that most people don't have that luxury.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I get what you are saying. I must be tired I'm not explaining myself.
Every single day is a day to be treated as holy because it is a gift of life.
Christmas, as I said research it a bit, was a day set aside for people by a ruler who did it just for the reasons you question. This originated centuries ago. It is a day of celebration. Perfect don't you celebrate or look forward to any special day, even your birthday, and you get that special feeling and you are happy? It is the same thing. You are celebrating your birth with others. It is the same thing. We celebrate Jesus' birth. It is a culmination of all days to be happy and to spread joy for the birth of this little child. It is about love. Some people don't see their families as you do and don't have food on the table or a present under the tree. People have gotten away from many good things that we practiced before. It seems the world lost its innocence between wars, attacks, and poverty. Children don't have a chance to be children or even look at this world the same as I did for instance, but I am fortunate enough to know the difference. To me Christmas brings people together, they laugh and are happier and friendlier because we are sharing and have this one day a year connection with each other. Is it better not to have any connection? Whether you like Christmas or question it, it doesn't matter. It is there to bring joy to people and to remember what life is about.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Oh boy. Too early for me, but I started this.
I'm saying with everything that is wrong in this entire world isn't it better to have some joy and to find peace and celebrate it even for one day a year and .
We celebrate Christ's birth. Nothing wrong with it. Since so many do, it is a Holiday so they can be with their families. We don't spend enough time with our families. I remember this wonderful man I worked with who was Jewish. He left work before sun down for several days and got paid. No one complained that is his religion. He also got Christmas off which was paid. Work is drudgery people need a break to remember that happiness does exist and remember who we are.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: "Ulysses S. Grant is one of the 5 worst presidents ever"

Not so bad that he didn't get you an extra paid day off!! :-)

Tell me, do you celebrate Christmas or not? Do you buy gifts for family and friends? Or do you celebrate your atheism by going in to work on Christmas day just like it's any other day?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: "Tell me, do you celebrate Christmas or not? Do you buy gifts for family and friends? Or do you celebrate your atheism by going in to work on Christmas day just like it's any other day?"

No I do not. Further, I worked retail most of my life and did work on Christmas day most of the time. Christmas is on a Sunday this year...so I don't get a paid day off anyways.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Usually if it falls on a Sunday, you get Monday off and paid.
I think, Perfect, it is about fun too. It is about people being together.
It doesn't matter if you believe or not, but nothing is stopping you from joining in the fun of it. Many other religions or non religious people, have fun.
It is what you make of the day. I'm sorry you have to work that day. You should still go out and make an effort to join in the fun. I knew this young man once, and I wished him a Merry Christmas, he replied "Why, it is just another day."
It is all what you put into it. If I have friends of another religioin, I would have fun and be part of their celebration. There are many mixed marraiges that celebrate both.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect do something different.
There are so many children in need. Since you work in retail, pick up a small toy for a child that has nothing on that day. Give it to that child and tell me how you feel when they smile and their eyes light up. Children are the easiest to understand because they don't complicate it. They see things more clearly. One person can make such a difference in a life forever.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: You see the unexpected gift is part of the spirit of Christmas no matter where it comes from.
17 months ago: PH? Are you for real?

I worked retail most of my life and did work on Christmas day most of the time.

Please name the retail company that had you slaving on Christmas day.

Was it ChiTown Express Mart?

Christmas is on a Sunday this year...so I don't get a paid day off anyways

So your saying your working on Monday December 26th? What company do you work for again?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I worked for Walmart and Taco Bell for a very long time

Yeah, I work on Monday
17 months ago: Time out... Christmas is a U.S. government paid holiday for government employees? I'm sure the next Congress will pass a law/rule that will stipulate that the name should be changes to winter break day.

Nothing like a fact that the government is hypocritical when reading their own rules while applying them to us underlings (below federal government).

I say let's just ban Christmas for government employees and force them to work on that day. That would be the best way to separate "Church and State" in the U.S. / State Governments.

Who knows. Maybe we should ban all laws because the are based on the 10 commandments. How Hanukkah.

Quanza anyone?
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: God forbid if we were no more and the world needed to start over again from the beginning. Who would know us or where we came from? That would be a major problem. I think that is where we are now, but some how I would think that God would be their new beginning.
Even if the big bang theory is true, or not, something happened to wipe out what was present at the time. Look at us, we don't know anything for sure even with advancements. Maybe that is the way it is suppose to be.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Things happen to us for a reason by design. Why do some people have the luck of the draw? Why do we have difficulty? We have miracles, and we have growth. We live in a society always reaching for answers.
I don't know whether or not we evolved from apes. From what I see of apes, they have a long way to go to pitch that argument.
If everything that was created could think and had intelligence, we would be in big trouble and swarmed with conflict and war to know end. It would be the destruction of civilization. We are dealing with so many differences at this time among people. I really don't believe anything else is suppose to be superior to a human by nature, or equal, either by evolution or cloned.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/quoteidx.htm
Article on what the founders believed about separation of church and state.
17 months ago: You see... if Markbyrn was weighing in on this he would have already slammed me for my closing statement...

"this war on Christmas is more a war on logic"

...I was sooooo hoping someone would bite on that one !:]
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: I figured Altruist, being the 99%er, would be all over this gettin' your back. He's all about protecting the majority from the tyranny of a few.
I hope he's ok.
17 months ago: That's funny... we both know that it depends on which majority is getting bashed! Come on Al say it ain't so...
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I hope Al is okay, too. I'm waiting for his input on this subject.
Glad someone is out there fighting for the rights of the people.
Those few that you mentioned who tyrannize are bandits.
sunny2
sunny2
Content Removed by sunny2
17 months ago: Sunny I have been thinking about your comment... "Possibly science is God, and God is science" ...I think that to some science is god, as it is presented to give some an escape and license for their behavior. But I don't think that God is science, in the sense that He is limited to what we can know about Him... or that He is comprehensible. As Creator He would be far beyond our total understanding.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I apologize. I didn't express it thoroughly.
What I meant to say was that God is the creator of all things in the world.
Science couldn't exist without Him.

sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I am correcting my former comment to be more clear.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I was staring at it because it looked weird. I hope I explained it better.
17 months ago: and possibly... your a...

science is God and God is science?

You think the Almighty would send the key that unlocks his universe?

If you think that your probably following Satan.
17 months ago: I don't know TCG...
"love" is a key to unlock pretty much everything God has for us...
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: God is about love, and we share it with one another. It is the most powerful force on this earth, and it is a gift to us.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: The simpliest way to God is believing in him. I don't think he would make anything complicated for us to find him.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: For all these kids that are going without this year but were so brave to talk before Congress to help and support others that are homeless that is what Christmas is. It's a gift.
17 months ago: OK, Truth.

Let's cut it down to brass tacks.

Some think they are equal to God. They call themselves scientists.
17 months ago: TCG,

Some are also called "Doctors"
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Truth, when I was carrying my child, I met a doctor who was a heart specialist at the time, and we got to talking. Anyway, he told me that as a doctor, the greatest miracle to him was the birth of a child. He was very honest in his emotions about it.
17 months ago: Funny Truth... Is there a science that Lawyers fit into?
17 months ago: I don't seem to be getting all my mail alerts from these posts, anyone else have the same problems??
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I'm not getting them either.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Appears to be a glitch in the system. Mine are coming through, but up to 12 hours delayed.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect, if you worked in any other job but retail, you would have Christmas Day paid when it fell during the week. Would you not accept it? I would if I were you. I would get a job that pays all Holidays. I would celebrate everyone's religion because I have respect for it.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Of course, not any that are extreme or violent.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I don't work in retail any longer. I am an executive at a manufacturing plant. We offered to have Monday off to our employees, none of them wanted it. We have off for most holidays.

Whether I like it or not (I get 6 paid holidays per year, only 1 of them is religious) is irrelevant. Christmas should not be a Federal Holiday, it is unConstitutional.

As far as your other suggestions, I donate regularly to Toys for Tots, Good Will, Salvation Army, and the local food pantry. I don't need a special day to do this. I just do what I can all year long.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: That's great. I assume they get paid double time.
I don't know anyone who wouldn't want Christmas off unless the company wants them to work.
Just give to one personally who needs it the most face to face. Maybe in your family. I wouldn't care actually if I got paid or not. I still would love Christmas anyway. We don't get paid for Easter. It is always on Sunday. It doesn't bother me. I just gave to Salvation Army, but I don't know who gets it. I think they put a price tag on things and sell it.
I just don't know why you would want people not to be paid. If it comes from private industry it has nothing to do with us. If you are talking about Federal, then are you worried about the tax money that is paid toward their salaries. We don't have anything now. They are starting to talk about ss running out again. We have worse problems in this economy that are depleting the budget.

Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Sunny
You are much kinder than I am. I immediately assumed they were offered Monday off without pay, which they would naturally decline.

PH
Which is it ? Do the employees work Monday at double time, since you offered them a paid day off anyway, or do they work Monday for regular wage to avoid losing a day's pay?
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Because we just got finished with manufacturing and got out of it in one piece, we were lucky. Between the chemicals and lack of consideration for employees, it was very hard to see this happening. Not everyone has that chance to get out.
I know that in manufacturing there are a lot of different cultures working and usually they are Christian and are close to their families.
17 months ago: So Ph. That religious holiday that you will not be taking on Monday December 26th? Are you going to claim it on a day of your choice or just get a bonus day on your paycheck? You think your Union Shop is working on monday without reason? Are they getting double time? Or are they floating that dang religious holiday to a personal date?

You say your not getting a Christmas Holiday? I call you.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I really don't care about you or anything you think or say or do...you are a usless waste of oxygen on this planet.

You calling me is irrelevant.

My company is non union.

My company is very small, we do not offer paid holidays regardless of which it is. There are 6 Federal Holidays over a year, we are generally closed for them but not paid. There are no bonus checks or anything like that...it is a small company. Several employees asked if they could work on Monday, we said they could. Several others are not coming in. Its a personal choice they made.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: PF At least you have people working in this struggling economy.
I do hope things get better for everyone.
I worked for small companies, too, so I know.
Not to worry about you know who, he made me a meter maid in our imaginery town, but I thought of the town first.
What does that tell you?
17 months ago: Perfect, Your are so full of crap your eyes are darker than brown.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: It is counting down to Christmas. I wish everyone a better year so that there won't be heartache, especially for the children and the parents who hurt for their children. Christmas is a miracle though because no matter how poor anyone is when they believe, the spirit of Christmas will always find them and bring joy. And that is why I believe in God and Christmas. I don't know anyone who is a believer who hasn't experienced that feeling at times when it is the hardest for them. It finds you one way or the other.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: I should also note that my distaste for Christmas is not because it is a Christian holiday. My parents are divorced, I hate literally every holiday, they are stressful and obnoxious. Constant struggle between them fighting over which side of the family I will see on which days and etc etc.

*not every holiday, Memorial and Labor day are nice
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: You know, I truly get it, but it only takes one parent to change that.
My first concern always would have been the child. People are all different, but you have the ability to get rid of those feelings. I found many people who don't make life special for their kids in any small way miss the boat. Turn it around. You don't have to believe, but you should change the way you feel. Most people look forward to holidays because it is a break from work to get things caught up. You shouldn't have to hold on to these feelings because of what someone else did or didn't do. You change it. Parent's and children don't always see eye to eye and there are a lot of scars from it. Start by seeing what others go through. There is a community that we give to far away every year. It makes them so happy at Christmas to see they are important and remembered. That's our thing personally. Just find a small way to help someone who may have gone through the same thing you did. Make the difference and show you care about what they go through. Bigger things will come to you. Its the way it goes.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I like Memorial and Labor day too. Those days are fun.
I carry a barbecue grill in my car and go to the prettiest place I can find. Usually, people I don't know share the grill. It's fun. Kids will ask for something. It's all good.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Put that in the past and enjoy the life you deserve. Don't let anyone deny you that because of their problems.
17 months ago: PH,

I know how sad Christmas can be... my older brother was killed in a head-on collision Christmas eve, he and his family were on their way to see us. It could be harder in your case because, like you say family stress continues to be there on the holidays. Dealing with our mortality can be hard, but dealing with family stress can be an ongoing struggle.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: Well, Christmas is not a holiday we celebrate...its other holidays I was referring to.

Besides, as far as I can tell Christmas isn't about Jesus, its about iPads...
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect, it isn't about iPads. That's on television commercials that brainwash people. Kids keep up with the technology. I think technology has gone too far, it takes away something. Talk about making money hand over fist for selfish reasons. Families need to stay on top of their kids and show them what life is really about. Sometimes parents are worse then children, and usually kids assume the place of parents when that happens.
It's about who we are and how much we give back in life.
You mean your company doesn't allow celebrating Christmas?
Christmas is about Jesus to almost the entire world. Most cultures want to be with family.
I feel like I am walking through the story of the Christmas Carol with you. You don't have to believe, but the world doesn't stop believing in you. I would go back and visit the past history and learn more.
Taking a pilgrimage to Jeruselum is a good way to start. My father went there with my Mom and he came back changed. He gained a world of knowledge just by going. I never saw such a change in anyone. It brought him close to God.
17 months ago: PH,

You may have a point... "as far as I can tell Christmas isn't about Jesus, its about iPads" to some it is like that, our family doesn't have a tree or even decorations... we spend our money on meals together, and this year we are having an open-house at our drop-in center for those who don't have family to share Christmas with.
17 months ago: PH. If your parents are adults... You might tell them your setting them up on a even / odd year rotation and remember to work the wife's family into the mix. If they have a problem with your adult decision. They can always visit at the others location if they keep it civil.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Truth. I'm sorry for your loss.
I agree with you on family stress regarding Perfect. Families have no right to impose this on their children by controlling their every move. I don't think it ever ends until you make a stand and say no more. When you look back, its too late and too much time past that is wasted. I say do what you want and make sure you enjoy life. If others don't know how to do it, then you have to. If you have a happy family, it is all together different. No one should all your life keep telling you what to do and where to be. Parents have that habit. I went through it to, but I started to take these great vacations on Holidays.
17 months ago: OK, I can't wait for our honorary pit-bulls to take apart my statement... "this war on Christmas is more a war on logic" ...so here goes:

In time past there was such internal fighting among Christians and "christians" alike because of the commercialism of Christmas. There was such a division over whether it was pagan or if the symbolism reflected key points in the Biblical account of the birth of Christ. The worst thing Atheists ever did was put their hands on the "baby Jesus" to toss Him out of the Mall... it's like brothers and sisters can fight swear and gouge each other's eyes out, but if the dude down the street even so much as looks at our dysfunctional family wrong... LOOK OUT! All of a sudden all Christians weak and strong, rich and poor, good and bad are uniting over "saving our savior" ...looks like the Grinch's plan backfired! Christians have more resolve than ever!

I wouldn't doubt we get prayer back in schools over this thing !:]
Content Removed by Truthbrary
17 months ago: The most effective plan of destroying a nation or a religion, is not persecution but rather internal division! Our nations can be so separated on every side... except when we are attacked... so it is with our faith.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: That is what I see that is going on. You hate to think that could happen but I don't trust this Administration or any other for that matter. The people have to stand strong against it.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: yes, it is all about faith.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Oh yes, the mythology of religous zealots being persecuted for proselytizing their religion but of course the real conflict is the war by the American religious right against the secularization of Christmas, their disdain for inclusiveness of the other major religions or non-religious philosopies, their unconstitutional fight to make right wing Christianity the de facto state religion, and pushing the government to endorse their particular version of Christianity at every opportunity.

But hasn't this been discussed with all the other usual left v right topics ad infinitum? Rant Rave is like an episode of the original Star Trek series titled, "Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield" and we are protagonists locked in a endless struggle with no end in sight. It's great fun but sometimes you have to step away from the ring and smell the roses. Thanks Truth for thinking of me and sending the note and BTW,who you picking for Lesnar vs. Overeem?

Before I go, I want to wish of every single one of you a Happy Hanukkah. If you don't celebrate it, don't whine and don't get offended. You will not reply, "but I celebrate Christmas" - you will have the civility and good manners to say "thank you good sir, likewise" just as you would expect somebody to do when you wish everybody Merry Christmas. And have yourself a Happy New Year as well even though you will not be happy the entire year, and if you're a charlatan or otherwise superstitious, Dec 21st, 2012 will mark the end of the world. *TWEET* *TWEET*
17 months ago: "Brock Lesnar faces unbelievable striker Alistair Overeem" ...my choice is Alistair Overeem because Brock needs a lesson in humility! Other than that they both bring to the Octagon exceptional skills ...both of these guys epitomise the term "brutal!"

And as to Nate Diaz vs. Donald Cerrone... Cowboy Cerrone is sending the "cartoon" Nate Diaz back to Warner Bros were he belongs !:]

All in all I hope that no one in the Octagon (UFC 140) has to go through what "Big Nog" had to with Frank Mir getting a broken arm... Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira was truly spanking Frank Mir only to loose in a freak come-back. It shows the resilience in these heavy weight scrappers, and their endurance.

Thank you good sir Markbyrn for making an entrance, and Happy Hanukkah! It is great fun, and it is good to see you've taken time to step away from the ring and smell the roses... with a big-screen high-def and sit back and watch us duke it out !:]
Content Removed by Truthbrary
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Happy Ramahannuquansmas to you too. Or ..."Happy ....um...the days are getting longer now".

(",)
17 months ago: Chappy Chanukah Mark.
17 months ago: Markbyrn, it's problably better that you've taken up rose-smelling... this way if you end up a Christian, people can just say you wern't a true hard-core Atheist anyway or just that he must have "mellowed out in his old age" !:]
17 months ago: *TWEET*TWEET* to you MB.

My best to you and yours for the holidays. Peace.
16 months ago: Markbyrn,

BTW who called it?! Alistair Overeem totally spanked Brock Lesnar...
however bittersweet ...too bad Brock retired, but there is always someone bigger !:]
17 months ago: A group of five, six and seven-year old children will be able to sing 'Silent Night' in their Christmas program after Alabama school officials decided to ignore a complaint filed by a group that called the song "unconstitutional."

The news came as a relief to students and teachers at G.W. Trenholm Primary School in Tuscumbia, AL after they found themselves thrust into the war on Christmas. "We've always sung 'Silent Night' and we've never had a problem," Principal Janice Jackson told Fox News & Commentary. "We were just surprised, very surprised."
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top...%29
17 months ago: Can you imagine being in prison during Christmas just for hosting a prayer rally? How about being in prison for three Christmases?
This year will mark Yang Xuan's third Christmas in prison for organizing a prayer rally more than two years ago. Yang was arrested on Sept. 14, 2009 along with four other church leaders.
http://www.charismanews.com/world/32517-...

Is this where America will be in a few years?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Why do the Chinese think that organizing a rally praying to an "imaginary" God would warrant prison time? If the guy is seeing things that don't exist, wouldn't a psychiatric ward be more appropriate?
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Did I miss something? Imaginary God? Could you explain that more.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: China is officially atheist, although freedom of religious belief is guaranteed by the Chinese constitution.

In other words, they have total freedom to believe what they want, as long as they do it in the manner proscribed by the government.

That's exactly what the 1% of atheist activists here in America want for us, too.

I put "imaginary" in quotes to signify the Chinese government's interpretation of God.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Thanks, Box.
Very cool.
17 months ago: Good point BOX,

what's the big deal if God didn't exist... by their actions, it shows their mighty military backed Gov is very afraid.... and they have reason to be. Freedom is scary to control freaks, and love is even scarier... that can melt even the hardest heart.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Box aren't they also Buddhist Monks and practice Buddism?
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: They may want it, but I doubt if they will ever see it happen.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I don't know what any of you are saying, it sounds barbaric. I'm use to physically standing in between people trying to stop a fight. My husband was always in fights with everyone. You all have boxing gloves on again. Great entertainment.
I know that I feel like people are throwing Christians into the lion's den again in this century. It doesn't matter to me what people's beliefs are. By doing the right thing, making the right choices and decisions will make you have a good life. That's all that matters.
If you all lived in the same neighborhood, you would all get along fine.
17 months ago: Sunny,

We use our words so we don't have to fight.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Sunny

"Doing the right thing?"

And we aren't fighting. This is a discussion. Nobody is angry at anyone. We are just standing up for our rights as the majority of people that are under threat of having something we hold dear taken away by a very small percentage of the country.

We learned our lesson from the "Arab Spring Revolutions" and the "Occupy Wall St. " movement, and we aren't gong to take it sitting down any more.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Ok, maybe we didn't get it from the OWS and Arab Spring.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Yes, doing the right thing and making good choices makes your life better.
No more taking it sitting down. I agree with that because they have taken the people for granted and think they can walk all over us.
17 months ago: I am still looking for a way to scrap with OOTB...
but I might get my *** kicked !:]
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Awwww, thanks man!!! I would consider it an honor, and you a worthy and formidable adversary.
17 months ago: Thanks back at you !:]
17 months ago: Can you imagine being in prison during Christmas just for hosting a prayer rally? How about being in prison for three Christmases?
This year will mark Yang Xuan's third Christmas in prison for organizing a prayer rally more than two years ago. Yang was arrested on Sept. 14, 2009 along with four other church leaders.
http://www.charismanews.com/world/32517-...

Is this where America will be in a few years?
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: I know I'm making a joke.
That is why I said you would all get along together. LOL
17 months ago: And like you said... "all get along" ...that is funny !:]
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Yup, an entire town of all of you.
17 months ago: Or an entire town of all ya'all !:]
(for those like TCG in the south)
17 months ago: You are all welcome as long as I can be Mayor and Police Chief. RED would be the one in charge of Tar and Feathers. Truth would be in charge of Christmas decorations. Huey would be in charge of Health and Human Services. Altruist can run the Library. Sunny can be the Meter Maid... uh, Traffic Enforcement Specialist.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Okay, not a bad job. Not to worry, somehow you will find your car towed every day until you are out of office Mr. Mayor.
17 months ago: HAAAAA! Watch who you tick off TCG.... impound fees can get nasty !:]
17 months ago: You can't impound a car for a single stinking parking ticket. You can't even boot them for that. Did I mention my wife is the court clerk? Soooo, sorry.

Sunny, remember I'm also the Chief of Police and your 911 calls will be directed the long way around....
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Did I mention, I out rank with my families political history and still actively going strong. I might own the Town.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: We seem to have lost Perfect.
17 months ago: How do you lose something you never had?
17 months ago: The problem is pissy people who can't get along with anybody as they are always trying to push their own agenda onto everybody else.

Growing up my sister and I would spend weekends at our grandmothers house and go to church on Sunday before going back home. We went to Sunday School, we participated in services, the whole 9 yards.

I never really bought into God the way he is presented as an omnipotent being that created every natural thing on this Earth as we know it. As I got older I wanted proof, I wanted facts, I wanted more scientific evidence and you just don't get that with God. God is about Faith and I just don't put my faith into something I can't see, hear or touch.

I used to call myself an Atheist. It was a nasty sounding term and people who were trying to push their beliefs on me would leave me alone, which is what I really wanted in the first place. I was never one of those idiot hardcore Atheists, I never hated Christmas or Christians or even God for that matter, I simply did not believe, but if others did that was fine by me. I do believe that there is some higher power that ties us all together, a sense about things. I hate to use the term force as that makes us sound like Jedi.

As far as Christmas goes, it's back to those pissy people, a vocal minority that think they can push what they want on people. When I was growing up back in the '60's everybody said "Merry Christmas" or if you knew the person was Jewish "Happy Hanukah", nobody ever said "Happy Holidays". It was those pissy people that forced the change as we might offend somebody if we said Merry Christmas.

I understand from a Retailers perspective you want and need customers to support your business and you don't want to do anything to upset or offend those customers so you go neutral and that's how we got to "Happy Holidays". However, I've noticed that a lot of store clerks don't even say that, at least not down here. They don't say anything.

Christmas, Hanukah, Ramadan and Kwanza are all spiritual based holidays. It is a time of year when we all should come together, celebrate and put aside our petty differences if only for a few weeks. I recall a story from World War II. It was Christmas Eve and the Americans and Germans were facing off against each other in foxholes and trenches in the snow. At one point both sides stopped fighting and they came together on the battlefield as fellow human beings passing along cigarettes and sharing stories.

To me, that's what this time of year is all about. Everybody is a little different and that's OK, just let it slide. The pissy people need to learn to live with it, when they do the world will be a better place.

Merry Christmas
17 months ago: Thanks Cully,

If I was in a place where a given term was used as a greeting during a holiday I would oblige, and if someone was offended by Merry Christmas... I would save it for someone who wasn't. Good form Cully.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: People have gotten very sensitive about almost everything.

I don't think anyone was offended by my wishing them a Merry Christmas, even Jewish people sometimes when I don't realize it and say it. They laugh and say that is okay.
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Thanks Cully.
It doesn't really bother me if people are different in their beliefs, I just don't want people being annoying about mine.
I say live and let live. Not everyone is like me.

You wrote a nice piece.

Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
17 months ago: "joyeux noel" is one of the best movies I have seen in a while.
17 months ago: Who likes the Dawkins pic?
Content Removed by Huey Newton
17 months ago: He looks like s deranged Christmas tree ornament or a refugee from the Nutcraker gone haywire.
17 months ago: I think he was photo-shopped or he evolved into an elf !:]
17 months ago: Sorry, I was too busy trying to figure out why he was wearing a cap and sweater when it is only 60 degrees outside.... Then I noticed he lives in a freaking log cabin....you know....the one like those other occupies want for Christmas....

on your dime....
sunny2
sunny2
17 months ago: Perfect The movie joyeux noel ..I suppose was business as usual after all the songs were sung and peace was briefly acknowledged.

I still say it isn't the physical aspect of Christmas, it is the spirit of Christmas that comes through. That is the greatest experience.
My favorites movies are for the Holidays:..It"s a Wonderful Life
and Elf. Elf makes me laugh. Then of course, White Christmas.
I can watch all the Christmas movies.
17 months ago: "Minister Told He Will Face Potential Arrest for Reading Christmas Story from the Bible at Capitol Christmas Tree..."
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/88...
17 months ago: The longer this planet spins, the dumber folks get.

It's actually laughable that the very sight of a Bible and baby Jesus at Christmastime strikes fear, animosity, hate, anger and anxiety into the hearts of some. Lost souls. Those people need to wake up before it's too late.

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