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The UN Has Got To Go

Posted 29 months ago|59 comments|786 views
Written by
For your information, the United Nations is in the process of saving the world. On of it's organizations is called "UNESCO" for United Nations Education, Science and Cultural Organization.

UNESCO's hard work has paid off! They've published a report called "International Guidelines on Sexuality Education: An evidence informed approach to effective sex, relationships and HIV/STI education."

It is on the web at:

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0018/001832/183281e.pdf

It is wonderful. It has amazing ideas, including teaching 5 year olds the pleasures of masturbation.

It is quite a read; however, I do not believe (and I may be mistaken) I saw the word "abstinence" anywhere in it.

The U N has come to save the day..........
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COMMENTS
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: Actully to quote the document:

"Children are not ready for sexual contact with other people".

and

"Abstinence means choosing not to engage in sexual behaviors with others"

The document also defines abstinence and abstinence-only education and cautions against the latter because it doesn't include information about contraception or disease prevention methods.

Now I realize this might be upsetting, but those who live in the real world must face the fact that hormone raging teens may taste the forbidden fruit even if their parents are religious to a fault. Ask Sarah Palin if you don't believe me.
29 months ago: I stand corrected on "abstinence" being in the document. (Where is it?)

"Children are not ready for sexual contact with other people". For crying out loud.

When are children read for sexual contact with other people?

What about sexual contact with ONE other PERSON?


As far as "hormone raging teens", you're being redundant. The forbidden fruit is exactly what it is about. That's where a strong, moral upbringing is most important.

What's the fault? I'm not seeing it.

That's where the rubber meets the road.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: I think the UN's education is essential. A large percentage of Africans think that they can be cured of their AIDS by raping a virgin. They are trying to counter that insanity.

Funny thing though, some people refuse to believe scientific facts and prefer to believe their superstitions.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: "Nearly 60 children are raped every day in South Africa and while experts agree to disagree as to the causes, or whether the pervasive belief in the so-called "Virgin Cure" prevents/cures HIV/Aids is possibly responsible for this deeply disturbing phenomenon, university researcher, Mike Earl-Taylor suggests it could well be a contributing factor, and a major one at that. Moreover, infant rape appears to be unique to South Africa, however, the Virgin Cure is not." From the web site: http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/virgin.htm
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: RedStateGuy,

Let me put it to you in a different way. When you bring up a child with a strong, moral upbringing while prudishly hiding contraception education or disease prevention, the result is Sarah Palin's 17-year-old unmarried daughter getting pregnant.

Does not a supposedly strong and moral parent understand that a teenager may have a moral lapse, or do you believe that teenagers of such parents are infallible? Assuming you don't believe teenagers are infallible, would it not be prudent to advise them to use contraception if they succumb to temptation?

Altruist, yes it is strange that some people refuse to believe scientific facts and prefer to believe their superstitions.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: The difference is that the UN thinks it should be a public program, mandatory, and that the parents are to be taken out of control. My grown children grew up without being taught how to have sex safely, and guess what? They didn't do it until they were ready. They were told the procreational process, and the dangers of promiscuity.
The only safe sex is no sex.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: Out of the Box,
...My grown children grew up without being taught how to have sex safely, and guess what? They didn't do it until they were ready...

Ready doesn't mean married and let's look at Scientific survey data vice your personal anecdote.

http://tinyurl.com/nsl2lc

In the official journal of American Pediatrics, Janet Elise Rosenbaum, Ph.D., A.M., looked at a survey from teenagers regarding sexual activity. Some had taken a public pledge to remain virgins until married. Past studies have shown the pledge may have an positive effect, but after matching for over 100 traits, including attitudes toward sex, family and religious beliefs, Dr. Rosenbaum found that by five years, an equal percentage of pledgers and the matched nonpledgers had lost their virginity. In addition, the pledgers were less likely to use birth control and STD protection.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Markbyrn

That's all well and good for everyone else. If other parents aren't getting the message across effectively, fine. I'm just saying that no authority is going to legislate what I have to allow my children to be exposed to. If I was not clear on that, I apologize. I would rather set up a tent in the most remote part of the world than allow my children to be subverted by the lax standards prevalent today.
29 months ago: "My grown children grew up without being taught how to have sex safely, and guess what? They didn't do it until they were ready."

If this is true - and frankly, I find it more likely they simply lied to you - then your children are a statistical anomaly. They are the exception, not the norm.

Why do I find it more likely they lied to you? Because I remember what being a teenager is like. And I remember all the teenagers of overbearing, overprotective parents who tried to prevent them from knowing anything about sex. Several of them had children of their own by the time they were out of high school.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
29 months ago: I do want a D.C. bureaucrat setting sex education policy, now we have international bureaucrats trying to do the same. It's just using our money to pay some no nothing bureaucrats with money they loot from the people of the world.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Noni
It is not easy being the exception, but if you work at it, you too can aspire.
Your cynicism is not surprising.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: Out of the Box,

...no authority is going to legislate what I have to allow my children to be exposed to...

Does that mean you recognize my right not to have my children exposed to religion in school, including prayer or Christian creationism? If so, I'm glad your consistent.

But perhaps your statement needs to re-worded. What if your religion said that cars were evil and the school was teaching drivers education? Would that mean the school has to stop drivers ed because a handful of people have some religious angst about cars?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: Out of the Box,

...My grown children grew up without being taught how to have sex safely, and guess what?...

That statement continues to bother me, perhaps because I'm reading too much into it.

What is your take on cases of parents withholding lifesaving medical care in the name of their religion. Just earlier this month, a woman in Wisconsin who let her daughter slowly die of untreated diabetes was convicted of homicide this spring and faces up to 25 years in prison.

Do you agree with the court or do you believe the woman's religious rights with respect to her children were violated?

My opinion is that this is all too common case of a parent putting their religious fantasy first and the health of their a children a distant or non-existent second.
29 months ago: OOTB: "It is not easy being the exception, but if you work at it, you too can aspire.
Your cynicism is not surprising."

You say cynicism, I say practicality and based in reality. And the reality is this: There is nothing you, I, or anyone can do to stop teenagers from having sex.

Believe me, this isn't a comfortable thought for me. I have a daughter. The idea of her going out and having sex with anyone is very disquieting. Yet somehow, when I was a teenager, the idea of finding someone else's daughter to have sex with was... well, let's be honest, it was pretty much the only idea going through my head. I'm just glad that when it happened - with a teenager who was equally hormonal - I'd had sense enough to bring a condom, and knew how they were used. No one got pregnant that way, or risked an infection. That's "exceptional" enough for me.
29 months ago: If you want me to pick teaching my children to do what Jesus taught or what MTV and the UN want, guess which way I lean.

Whether or not we are successful in raising our children, that remains to be seen.

All we can do is plant the seed and try to walk the walk.,
29 months ago: @redstateguy

You're welcome to lean that way. I hope it turns out better than it did for Sarah Palin. But don't expect UNESCO to push religion-based abstinence "education" on AIDS-ridden countries. Those countries need condoms and real sex education.
29 months ago: heynnn.

Abstinence however based is the only way to help "AIDS-ridden" countries. There is no such thing as safe sex...other than abstinence. It is disingenuous to suggest condoms and birth control somehow makes sex safe.


How did it turn out bad for Sarah Palin?
What's wrong with grandchildren?

It's Sarah Palin's daughter who is losing her young adulthood. How is that a problem for Sarah Palin?
29 months ago: "Abstinence however based is the only way to help "AIDS-ridden" countries. There is no such thing as safe sex...other than abstinence. It is disingenuous to suggest condoms and birth control somehow makes sex safe."

This is a sadly inaccurate statement, and is ruining lives. For no-doubt religious reasons, you believe that sex before marriage is wrong, and because it's wrong, it's somehow impossible to reduce the risks associated with it.

This flies in the face of science even worse than young Earth creationism, because it's downright easy to study the permeability of condoms.

To be blunt, redstateguy, you are just plain wrong here. This isn't even a point on which alternative opinions are valid. It's like holding the "opinion" that 2+2=5. At least with young Earth creationists, they can hold desperately to the fact that no one can go back in time to check, but that doesn't apply here. You can check. Condoms work. Yes, they're not 100%, because people misuse them. But if you use them properly, you cut the chances of an unwanted pregnancy or disease transmission down to practically nil.

You're not going to win this one. Science gives no wiggle room on this.

"How did it turn out bad for Sarah Palin?
What's wrong with grandchildren?"

So... uhhmm... you're now in the pro teenage-unwed-pregnancy camp? Color me surprised.

"It's Sarah Palin's daughter who is losing her young adulthood. How is that a problem for Sarah Palin?"

Put yourself in her shoes for a moment. She has her own young toddler with disabilities to take care of. Now her daughter, who is woefully unprepared to be a parent, has added another mouth to feed to the mix. It's hard for me to imagine how stressed Ms. Palin is right now. No wonder she quit.
29 months ago: heynnn.
I respectfully, completely disagree.
Abstinence works 100% of the time, so I'm trying to teach it.

Sarah quit to prepare for her next job. Obama will be a 1 term, Jimmy Carter, president.....i hope.
29 months ago: @redstateguy

You do realize you just "disagreed" without disagreeing, right? You said "Abstinence works 100% of the time." This is true. But what does that have to do with the effectiveness of condoms? Nothing. It has absolutely zero relation. Regardless of whether abstinence is 100% effective or not, condoms are about 98% effective.

Do the math. Most - yes most, including yours, mine, and everyone else's - kids *will* have sex. They will. You can teach them it's evil, you can teach them they're going to hell for it, you can try to prevent them from having it or learning the basics of the act... and they *will* have sex anyway.

So which method will prevent more teenage pregnancies, more sexually transmitted infections, and more *ABORTIONS*? Just telling kids not to do it when you *know* they will, or telling them not to do it, but making sure they know how to protect themselves when they inevitably do?
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
29 months ago: I guess former Dem. presidential candidate and Senator, Jon Edwards wasn't taught safe sex. He wasn't even taught smart sex...If you are going to cheat on your wife, use a condom!!!

My previouse comment should have started "I do NOT want"
29 months ago: See, I operate in reality. I accept, however uncomfortable this knowledge is, that teenagers will have sex. You would like UNESCO to operate from a perspective of fantasy, that somehow they can just get AIDS-ridden countries to stop having sex. I would rather save lives, and give them condoms and instructions on how to use them.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
29 months ago: Aids is high in Africa, because infant mortality is high. They are just trying to procreate and have the child live. The more times you impregnate the better chance you will have a child that will survive. If these people are that stupid that they think raping a virgin will cure their aids, then they have to be stupid enough to think Obama Care will help them...I move we experiment with Obama Care in Africa...If it works then try it here.
29 months ago: What, give all South Africans health care? Regardless of how you feel about government provided insurance, *any* health care system would be better than what South Africa has now.

The virgin thing is, I'm afraid, due to religion trumping science and education in that country. People who believe a theocracy is the ideal form of government ought to look at what happens when superstition is allowed to triumph over knowledge.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: "Abstinence however based is the only way to help "AIDS-ridden" countries. There is no such thing as safe sex...other than abstinence. It is disingenuous to suggest condoms and birth control somehow makes sex safe."

This statement is completely accurate. It is, in indisputable fact, the only way to guarantee, 100% of the time, to absolutely prevent pregnancy and the spread of sexually transmitted disease. Condoms and birth control pills only offer "saf-er" sex, if used correctly.

While it is true that much of civilization is devolving back to an animalistic state, where desires of the flesh are "all I ever thought about", some of us will not regress, and will lead our families onto the more enlightened path.
Religion has nothing to do with it. I was not raised in a religious family, the first time I saw the inside of a church I was fourteen years old. However, at that time I had already started my first business, and was more interested in bettering myself. I guess it just runs in my family to think of higher, less base things than frivolous sex.
29 months ago: OOTB, that's a lovely personal choice. But for those of us who don't consider enjoying sex to mean "devolving back to an animalistic state," why should the rest of society try to make your rare, anomalous outlook on life the norm? Condoms will save far more lives than trying and failing to make our teenagers remain abstinent. Prevent more abortions, too.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
29 months ago: So in South Africa they give each other aids by raping virgins, In North Africa if you strap on a bomb and blow yourself up get virgins in heaven. Let's bring the strap on bombs to south Africa, the aids victims can blow themselves up thinking they can get 12 virgins. Hence no more guys with aids in south africa. All we have to do is convert them to Jihadists. Simple and I didn't even take a couple hundred million dollar from the UN fund to come up with that.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: You shouldn't try. I don't think you could do it if you did try. You should just be prepared to deal with the consequences of your teachings should they come a-knocking. You should also be willing to part with the huge amounts of constructive energy you will waste chasing physical gratification. I have all the sex I could ever want with a woman who loves me, (and is 21 years my junior, by the way, a former fashion model, we've been together ten years, and have two beautiful children together) because I didn't waste my youth.
29 months ago: heynnn.
You don't get what I get.

Sex is given to us by G-d, and it is glorious. And it is meant to be.

And that gift is for when you are married.

The lesson is not "Don't have sex."
The lesson is, "Love yourself". "Thank G-d for what you have". "Wait to love your husband (or wife)". Sex is a lesson years down the line after you lay a Christian foundation.

For crying out loud, each one of us is made to have sex. That's why we're here.

We're are here to go forth and multiply.

Sex education comes in an organized fashion LATER. Sex education is a small part of the big picture. You don't just say "Don't have sex until you're married."

You say, "love yourself", "love your husband (or wife)", "Come to my house on Thanksgiving and Christmas"......

and pray.....
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: I think the argument has gone off the track. The UN is not trying to tell OOTB what his children have to learn nor should it be an argument about the merits of abstinance only education.
The point is should the UN pay for sex education in Africa?
There is a terrible need for education there. Muslims do not believe in education of girls and women because then women will have some modicum of control over their own lives. Rape is an epidemic in Africa and it is used as an instrument of terror.In South Africa "Rape of a woman or girl had been perpetrated by 27.6% of the men interviewed and 4.6% of men had raped in the past year." according to a recent poll. http://www.africafiles.org/article.asp?ID=21097
It goes beyond rape, it is terror. Many women are raped by sharp objects some are raped with guns and then the gun is fired.
Because they have no sex education and because girls and women have few rights, young girls are married off or raped and become pregnant while still young girls. Although fertile, because their small young bodies are not developed enough to have a baby yet,when the baby comes many die. Others have something called obstetric Fistula, when the baby comes out it literally tears the young girl apart, and because many of these girls do not have any medical care they heal very slowly and have no control over their bladder or bowels. Because they have no control and stink, they are ostracized by society. It is estimated that there is a million women suffering from fistula in Nigeria alone.
This is a terrible, catastrophe that is entirely preventable with education.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Altruist
I agree Africa is in dire need of some help, on nearly every front imaginable. The problem arises, for me at least, in the fact that the U.N. is attempting, through people's sympathy for the African plight, and other third world areas, to push the same legislation off on us.

Now somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but under Maritime and Admiralty Law, which Bush agreed to, any treaty we enter into, (ratify) with the U.N., binds us to the same standards and rules of any other nation entering that treaty.

That is why the Global Poverty Act was so important to stop. It was just a backdoor way to prohibit gun ownership by the citizenry, simply by stating that the U.S. would abide by the recommendations of the U.N.'s Millennium Project. Part of the Millennium Project's goal was to take all Light arms out of the hands of the citizenry, because warlords were using guns in Africa to stop humanitarian aid.

Obama wrote that one, and so far, it hasn't passed.

But, someone with more knowledge than me needs to verify these previous statements.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: I am all for the Millennium project. Eliminating poverty, bringing safe drinking water to societies, providing sanitation, power,schools, and jobs. They are denied all of the basic necessities of life that you and I take for granted. That is why people become pawns of the Wahabists and strap bombs to their bodies, because they are desperate and have no hope left. Many suicide bombers do it because they know the Madrassas will care for their families. Osama and many other top Arab terrorists had money, but they knew how to tap into the anger of the street. Bush fell into Osama's trap and did exactly what Osama wanted him to do to make Al Queda stronger, and America weaker.
The best way to win hearts and minds is to help people. It is much more cost effective too. The Millenium projects costs are a drop in the bucket of our military budget, and it would do far more for peace. In the Middle East there is a culture of vengeance and retribution and for every innocent civilian we kill with our bombs we produce two or three more terrorists. Helping people and giving them jobs rebuilding their countries, so they can support their families makes them less dependent on aid, less angry and less willing to blow themselves up because they have hope.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: It is pretty paranoid to think that the UN trying to save the world, is just some vast world wide plot to take away your two dozen AK-47's that you of course need to support your family on venison.
29 months ago: George Bush did more for Africa than any other President.

Altruist:
With Obama and all, you have no idea how right you are about my AK-47's and the venison.

29 months ago: "George bush did more for Africa than any other President."

Evidence? All those problems existed under his presidency. The Millenium project would offer real, tangible benefit to millions of people. What real, tangible benefits did Bush provide?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: I don't hunt deer with a Kalashnikov. I use a deer rifle, or in tight brush I use a shotgun. The heavier stuff is reserved for protecting myself from an overbearing government, and regaining freedom, should it come to that.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Have you read the Millennium Project? Included are the CNC guidelines and requirements, and other freedom busting Trojan horses. I'm not paranoid, I know how to read, and I'm not willing to give up one ounce of freedom for anybody. If they need help, then fine, let's help. But, we aren't going to subjugate ourselves to any power other than our own, no matter how lofty their goals may seem.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: CRC, not CNC
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: Actually Bush should get credit on Africa in terms of humanitarian aid. For example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941.html

and to quote the most relevant part:

"The president has tripled direct humanitarian and development aid to the world's most impoverished continent since taking office and recently vowed to double that increased amount by 2010 -- to nearly $9 billion.

The moves have surprised -- and pleased -- longtime supporters of assistance for Africa, who note that because Bush has received little support from African American voters, he has little obvious political incentive for his interest.

"I think the Bush administration deserves pretty high marks in terms of increasing aid to Africa," said Steve Radelet, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development.

Bush has increased direct development and humanitarian aid to Africa to more than $4 billion a year from $1.4 billion in 2001, according to the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. And four African nations -- Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt and Uganda -- rank among the world's top 10 recipients in aid from the United States."
29 months ago: Mark, I stand corrected. Thank you for reminding me about that. I suppose even a stopped clock is right twice a day... Good for Bush for getting that done.
29 months ago: @OOTB

"Have you read the Millennium Project?"

I've read the MDGs, if that's what you're referring to. Didn't find anything about depriving Americans of their guns, though. Could you please link the specific text that concerns you?
29 months ago: Yea, but some stopped clocks have the "PM" light lit.
29 months ago: thanks for the info markbryn
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: As a personal acedote, while in the military I was in invovlved in administrating humanitarian projects in a former Soviet Union republic as part of a US European Command initiative. Yes Altruist, the US Military performs a considerable amount of humanitarian aid for the purposes that you adroitly noted, "a way to win hearts and minds is to help people."

Unfortuantely the level of corruption in the former Soviet Union republics was so bad that we estimated at least 75% of the aid ended up as cash in some government officials pocket and that doesn't count the bureaucratic overhead on our side to administer the programs.

I won't name the specific country but their government not only charged us 'customs' on the aid materials that we were delivering but the government airport charged our US military cargo planes exorbitant commercial landing fees because "we weren't on government business"

In one case we funded the rebuilding of a rural government hospital and come to find out later that corrupt hosptial officials had sold most of the donated medical equipment.

From my perspective, the humanitarian business process is broken because the people at the end of the pipe who you're intending to help are only getting a few drops of water out of the spigot, and I don't think monolithic organizations like the UN or even USAID are the panacea.
29 months ago: What markbyrn said.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
29 months ago: Let's make this simple...I'm all for doing what we can to help the people on the African Continent...as long as my rights are not infringed upon. When the U.S. government helps out our own the government starts to call the shots, inevitablt grabbing a little bit of our liberty at a time (look at Gm when they got their bailout). that is a bad thing. I don't think we should surrender liberties to the U.N. in the name of helping the less fortunate in Africa. They want our help they should do it our way period. The U.N. is our Federal government on steroids when it comes to coruption, and fraud.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Noni,
Actually, it is getting harder to find the actual complete text of the Millennium Project in its complete form.



Here is the wording of the Global Poverty Act, sponsored by Obama.
http://www.govtrack.us/congre/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2433

under "definitions"

(4) MILLENNIUM DEVELOPMENT GOALS- The term `Millennium Development Goals' means the goals set out in the United Nations Millennium Declaration, General Assembly Resolution 55/2 (2000).


Here is an excerpt of an overview published by the U.N.
http://www.un.org/millennium/declaration/ares552e.htm
Under Section II, Article 9

"• To ensure the implementation, by States Parties, of treaties in areas such as arms control and disarmament and of international humanitarian law and human rights law, and call upon all States to consider signing and ratifying the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court."
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: There is a myth-buster page at
http://www.un.org/events/smallarms2006/pdf/SettingRecordStraight.pdf

It states the recent review conference had nothing to do with drafting laws concerning gun bans.
That may very well be true, but it doesn't address any future laws, or existing policies the U.N. holds.

MYTH: There is a UN Convention banning the possession of firearms.

FACTS: UN Member States, including the Permanent Members of the Security Council, adopted a legal
convention by consensus, in force since September 2003, to tackle transnational organized
crime. In it, they agreed to work together to counter drug trafficking; trafficking in human
beings; trafficking in firearms; smuggling of migrants and money laundering.
The Convention and its supplemental Protocol dealing with firearms only commit the States
which have ratified them.

Sort of a sideways answer, if you ask me.
29 months ago: Dave, you're smarter than that. They already push all kinds of information about rape and why it's bad. It's not enough. They need:

1) Real information about how HIV is transmitted to combat superstitions and unscrupulous witch-doctors.
2) Real information about contraception and its use.
3) High availability of contraception. If we really want to save lives, any African should be able to walk into a clinic and get free condoms.

On that last one, please don't come back with the bogus argument that condoms lead to sex. Condoms lead to safer sex. Lack of condoms doesn't lead to abstinence.
29 months ago: OOTB, thanks for the links. After reading them, I don't think your concerns are warranted.

There are two part of the UN Millennium Declaration that deal with weapons. The text of each follows:

"We resolve therefore:
...
• To ensure the implementation, by States Parties, of treaties in areas such as arms control and disarmament and of international humanitarian law and human rights law, and call upon all States to consider signing and ratifying the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
...
• To take concerted action to end illicit traffic in small arms and light weapons, especially by making arms transfers more transparent and supporting regional disarmament measures, taking account of all the recommendations of the forthcoming United Nations Conference on Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons."

It's all about ending illegal weapons trade. You know, unlicensed Kalashnikov sales to terrorists, handguns to felons, and the like. We have similar arms control in this country now. Politics aside, we all agree that when you commit a violent crime with a weapon, you've given up your right to own such a weapon, right?

I think your reading of this is colored by an automatic dislike of the UN. Unless you're engaged in shady arms deals, there's nothing to fear in this. And if you are engaged in shady arms deals... well, that's already illegal behavior *now*. It doesn't need an additional UN treaty to make it illegal.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: To give credit where due, Bush committed a record funds for aids in Africa, he also gave more money for education here in the States, and he pleasantly surprised the environment community when he created the worlds largest marine reserves. Having admitted that Bush was not all bad I expect to hear from a few conservatives admitting that Obama is doing some good things.
29 months ago: Altruist, don't hold your breath. He's only been in office for seven months, but since he's a socialist, everything he has done, will do, or is doing is automatically evil, even if it's identical to what Republicans have wanted in the past (such as the end-of-life counseling in the health care bill).
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Well, I for have to say Obama isn't all bad. He hasn't come to my house with his Reptilian forked tongue dripping digestive acid and devoured any of my children.....YET!!!

;-)
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
29 months ago: Altruist,

...I expect to hear from a few conservatives admitting that Obama is doing some good things...

I'll put on the neo-con fundy hat and give you an answer:

"OBAMA, SHOW US THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE! JUST A 5 MINUTE CALL TO PROVE YOU'RE NOT THE ANTI-CHRIST!! HOW DARE YOU SAY WE'RE NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY!!!"
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 months ago: I agree with all of the goals of the Millennium Project, and it is hard to believe that any sane civilized person would actually be in favor of rape, genocide, trafficking in drugs, firearms, or human beings. It comes down to the basic definition of civilization. How do we stop rampant violence, corruption and chaos? The only possible way is through central government. How do we stop genocide, corruption, and other international crimes committed by other nations except through cooperation of all nation states?

It seems that the main objection to the UN is that conservatives do not want the US to be held to any international standards, treaties, or regulations. We are the big dogs, we have the mightiest military and might makes right. Can we afford to continue being the cops of the world? Will others respect us if we are not held to the same international standards we expect of everyone else?

The Gangs of New York were corrupt and violent in the 1800’s but eventually civil government won out. There is hope for worldwide peace and stability, in fact the world as a whole is more peaceful now than ever before, but peace is only possible through international cooperation.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Wow, you guessed it with so few clues. I think you make be the first one to get behind the curtain so quickly. So, YES! YES! I love rape, genocide, drug trafficking and slavery!!







Jeez, gimme a break.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
29 months ago: Again, if you actually listened to conservatives, and didn't just get your talking points from stereotypes and leftie playbooks, you would be hearing a lot of things you might not expect, including praising Obama when they feel he is doing a good job.
29 months ago: Altruist:
With all due respect, I consider you dead wrong on many things.
The latest of which is how you accomplish peace.
HUMAN HISTORY, if you'd look at it, answers that question for us.
Peace is only possible by one side defeating the other side.
I suggest we leave the Kumbaya and skipping around the trees for the girls scouts.

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