Culture & Lifestyle

Rant

Swapping religion for The Bottle.

Posted 9 months ago|169 comments|2,456 views
Written by
Paper Tiger
England
I have been accused of mocking the Bible because, I am so evil, that I dare to ask questions that I don't understand. After giving this alot of thought I began to understand how easily led people can be lured into a religious sect. And if I was a member of that sect I would be justly shot for my impudence.

So who do these zealots think they are? They usually are the ones that swap the bottle for religion. Thay think they are on a higher plane then us mere mortals. They need constant recognition to inflate sagging ego's. When I read how someone used to be a drunk, a brawler a bad person, I see that as bragging and an element of pride involved too.

What I don't need is to be treated like a ****ing idiot because I do not believe everything I am told. These Waco wannabe's should round up a group of followers, take them into the wilderness and tell these zombies how bad they are because they need to worship without question.

I have had religion shoved down my throat for many years. As a child I was taught that if I did not go to church on Sunday I would be dipped in moulten lava for eternity. If I thought bad thoughts I would be dammed. I was brought up and taught by nuns and priests, and everything had a bad consequence. How dare you sum me up in one word, mockery.

Test my faith at your peril!

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COMMENTS
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: And another thing, what do you bible punchers do? Do you ever actually help anyone in need. Or if you see someone starving in the street, do you give them money or advice?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: These right wing preachers remind me of a story my mother used to tell me.

Amole, a creature blind from birth, once said to his mother, 'I am sure that I can see mother!' In the desire to prove to him his mistake, his mother placed before him a few grains of frankincense, and asked, 'What is it?' the young mole said it is a pebble.' His mother exclaimed, 'My son, I am afraid that you are not only blind, but you have lost your sense of smell.

What does that say to you? It says to me that ignorance is a dangerous thing, and you need to keep your mind open as your way is not the only way.
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8 months ago: Of course, help in every way possible that you can. That is second nature.
Life is the best teacher. The givers are not takers. Takers are not givers.
I've seen the so called bible punchers do a lot of harm in the name of their beliefs. Boils down to what we have learned through living and how much we are willing to give back. Again, it has to do with each individual and what they feel they can do to make a difference.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: The title should be swapping the bottle for religion
8 months ago: Yes some do? I've seen that over and over again. I've seen a lot of cruelty come out of being misguided.
Like I said before a person has to find themselves in any way that he can. If he can't learn, then he doesn't want to. A person has to believe in something, and it doesn't matter which religion they choose.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
9 months ago: If you want to correct the title, I can delete the post and you can repost it with the correct title. Let me know.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Thanks Mark but let it stay as it is.
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
9 months ago: PT,

You made a good point (one) earlier, about certain confidentiality, so I reworked my response after deleting the other one. I let someone get under my skin...
Here is the revised version...

"I take it you are referring to me... I would hapily be thrown in with the Bible believing lot, as to my late entry to this post...

SO sorry I didn't have time to respond to your feelings of self-pity, I was in court all yesterday fighting for the chance to adopt a child, and was delivered only to be threatened to a life of neglect and abuse in her "natural" setting... so where were we?

IF you have a problem with me, I admit you have your hands full... however IF your fight is with God, His Word, and His provision for your sin... then I suggest you take it up with Him. This is the classic can't get the desired response from someone, so you take it up in a public forum to "embarrass" your opponent... sorry, I am still recovering from the alcoholic-self-destruction-memories that your attempt at a guilt-trip has no effect. I would recommend that you take 2 minutes, on your knees, and humbly ask Jesus Christ to encourage you, and heal the hurt that idiots like me have caused in your life... that's what I do, and it helps."
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: So there are no comments then? Does that mean you all agree wholeheartedly with my post? The right wing bible punchers have seen the error of their ways? That's good I can now go back to hibernation.
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
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markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
9 months ago: I don't see where he mentioned your name and from my perspective, the problem isn't with one's invisible / imaginary deity. The problem is 'shoving religion down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies.

When that's one's modus operandi, they should expect nothing less than contempt and disrespect in return - such a person should be happy to swallow the medicine that they themselves dispense but they invariably cry tears of persecution instead, and invoke the wrath of their imaginary deity.

Another aspect here is children and while you can raise YOUR child in whatever religion you want, but human beings including children have free will and when you cross the line to compel somebody into religion, the end result may in fact be quite the opposite of what the religious proselyters desired.
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
9 months ago: Mark,

I was the only one as far as I know, that said PT was a mocker...

"PT,
I think that if you truly don't understand, you should spend less time mocking the Bible and it's believers. IN other of your comments you slight and mock the contents and applications of the Bible... so why give a care if you don't understand it, or why care if you are unable to believe it, if it is all just a big joke? I think that God on purpose closes the eyes and minds of the mockers... at least until they show Him some respect and humble themselves, giving Him the honor Almighty God deserves.
Things haven't changed that much for me over the years... I still owe the Lord daily gratitude and service.... and on my knees in prayer is a good place to start."
http://www.rantrave.com/Rave/Was-Half-th...
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/How-many-an...

...and I don't mind the backlash, I am just simply saying "grow up" ...if you don't believe it simply that you won't believe.... God is not prejudiced against anyone... He loves all whom He created, friend or foe. The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence.

"...As the Scriptures say, "God opposes the proud but favors the humble." (James 4:6)
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
9 months ago: Mark,

I do agree with you on something though...

"The problem is 'shoving [evolution] down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies."
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
9 months ago: ..."The problem is 'shoving [evolution] down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies."...

If you had said, 'shoving Atheism down people's throat;, I'd be inclined to agree since it's an unprovable proposition. On the other, Scientific theory is not religion and it based on the Scientific method. Unlike the charlatanism of religion, Science has proven itself and without it, we wouldn't be having this discussion using some of the most advanced technologies that Science has devised.

Also, unlike religion, Science can and has acknowledged error or revised theory based on new data. So to compare the fantasy of religion with Science is patently absurd. If you're that irrational, you could just as well say, "shoving down Physics, Electrical Engineering, Meteorology, etc down people's throat."

Are you honestly comparing Science to a religious fantasy that is absolutely unprovable and has zero basis in Science or rationalism?
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
9 months ago: Mark,

You are delirious... Evolution is a theory, not science. It is merely a school of thought, belief, and faith... not science. I agree with science, one can't dispute facts... however, theories are just that... or didn't you get the memo. Maybe if you meme a bit longer "they" like CR will call it the "Law" ...then comes the post religious inquisition.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Truth
Why are you taking this rave to be all about you? As I know, so I wiil share it with you, there are others on this planet besides your very good self. I coomend you in the good you are doing with adoption, but you should keep that private. That little girl does not need any publicity.

As for feelings of self pity, I am very very proud of the person I turned out to be, but that proudness stays where it should, in my own mind, not broadcasted to the world.

As a shining beacon in the religious world, you should not take my posts personally. As for getting down on my knees, the only times I do that is if I drop something. Truth, I can understand your need for constant attention, but because your ego is so shallow, try to focus on other humans, rather than build your own shrine, and use Gods good name to promote your own wonderfullness.

I truely believe you need some councelling, as the many fighst you have told us about so often, and be so proud of is not normal. Instead of talk the talk my friend try walking the walk. If you need to talk, you know how to contact me.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hey Waco Man.
So you have now promoted yourself as Gods personal spokesperson. The bible you talk about shoud carry a health warning, like a pack of cigarettes. I think that your bullying brawling days has damaged you mentally. Get your religion in prospective, you are confusing yourself with god.

What I suggest is the you peep out of your curtains to see if there any strange cars in your street. Black cars with four men with black suits on. Some of your messages are wierd. I believe you spew out religion by proxy.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Mark
Re; I don't see where he mentioned your name?
A person with a self image problem thinks everthing is about him.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Re; I take it you are referring to me... I would hapily be thrown in with the Bible believing lot, as to my late entry to this post...

Re; SO sorry I didn't have time to respond to your feelings of self-pity,

Re; IF you have a problem with me, I admit you have your hands full...

Who the **** do you think you are? So if I dissagree with you I have my hands full? Back to the bragging again then, eh? Had I met you in your brawling, drunken days that you are so proud of, you would have stopped drinking sooner than you anticipated.

In my life I have met many many people like yourself, who will do anything at all for attention. People like yourself need people like me, who are not in the least intimidated by your mindless wonderings, and thuggish threats, to drag you back into reality.

Take some advice go and see a specialist, be honest and fight your "ME" disease and it is going to be harder than you think. Keep on repeating to yourself, "I am not special, I am a ordinary person." In time it should jar your head into reality.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Re; I take it you are referring to me... I would hapily be thrown in with the Bible believing lot, as to my late entry to this post...

Believe it or not Waco Man the universe isn't revolving around you, it's revolving around all of us. You seem to have taken the role of spokesman for your god, has this been made official?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Re: or why care if you are unable to believe it, if it is all just a big joke?

Let me try to understand your logic? If I cannot believe somthing, I think it's a big joke?

So I don't understand everything about cancer and disease, I see no joke in those circumstances. When you try to belittle somebody because they have a different perspective in life you, you are showing your ignorance or a lower level of inteligence than most. If history had been full of bogots and fools, we would still have slavery, women would not have a vote, and laws that allow people to believe in their chosen religion. Waco Man, stop and think before putting your brain in gear.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Re; "The problem is 'shoving [evolution] down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies."

Waco Man I connot believe you wrote that, the most intolerent person I have ever been in contact with, whining about people being intolerent.

Waco, you have made my day!
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Re: you are delirious... Evolution is a theory, not science. It is merely a school of thought, belief, and faith.

Waco Man, and religion is not?
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
9 months ago: TP,

I think this little rant allowed the real you to surface... one no longer needs to tread lightly on your fragility. As to "having your hands full" ...I was referring to my tendency toward ignorance... and not a "threat" as you put it. I do think however that your name for this post is correct... by your wild ravings you must have had a few !:]

Oh, in case anyone is wondering...
...you can't "kill" a dead man... he can only be resurrected !
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Waco Man.
Never tread lighly with me fool. In the begining of my post there was a warning, you are too stupid to understand that warning.

Now then Mr Manson, Waco Man. You throw out threats as challenges and when people bite, as you intended them to, you try to slither out of it by saying, you have got the wrong end of the stick. If you are going to try to put somebody down, have the courage of your convictions and admit it.

Was your nasty remark about me, "having a few" something else I have misunderstood? You Waco, Mason Man, insult people and their beliefs, then run and hide behind your god. I bet your god is happy to have you as a sociopath promoting his religion.

Waco, Manson Man. Tell me more about your drunken brawling days, the booze was the excuse then and religion is your excuse now. Now ****wit this is what this post is all about. And because you live with your head up your own arse, you are too stupid to understand that.

I would like to talk to somebody that is close to you, maybe your physiologia.
Thats Latin not one too many, fool.
8 months ago: Paper I read your comment again.
Religion should be a freedom for each person to reach their goals of understanding Christ whether they struggle with it, or not.
I had people try that on me didn't get them anywhere. They were so insulted, but I didn't care because I was beyond that.
I'll tell you I had nuns and priest when I was a kid, and the only thing I can remember is they forced me to drink all my milk. I hated that ritual at recess every single day. I had one nun when I was about 4 years old look at me with pure dislike. When you are a child, that is traumatic. They are only people. Anyway we came back home. The only thing I got from everything was learning an feeling close to God which was an has been a great gift.
Church every single Sunday doesn't enforce belief. Going out there in the World and living does. I tend to agree with your comment.
georgeberaobama
georgeberaobama
Blakely Island, WA
9 months ago: A wolf resolved to disguise his appearance so he could get more food, more easily. He dressed in the skin of a sheep, and pastured with the flock, decieving the shepherd by his costume. In the evening he was shut up by the shepherd in the fold, the gate was closed and locked. But the shepherd returned to his fold during the night to obtain meat for the next day. He mistakenly caught and killed the wolf.

Harm Seek Harm Find
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
9 months ago: I'm inlined to agree but I'd rather deal with a religious nut than a drunk. Either one is an escape from rationalism and reality but a benign religious fantasy won't be as debilitating as alcoholism or drug addiction, and it can have a positive placebo effect. The key though is benign and when religious fanaticism and associated forms of demogogery get entangled with political power, "political questions became matters of good and evil to be fought to the death."
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Mark.

I must dissagree with you about preferring to deal with a religious nut than a drunk. A drunk sobers up.
Content Removed by Huey Newton
9 months ago: PT - nothing wrong with asking questions. You strike me as a sincere guy and I've always enjoyed your posts and conversing with you.

As far as the Bible goes, I personally I got to the point of where I got tired of everyone else telling me what the book(s) say and what I am supposed to believe, so I read it for myself.

Studied the history, archeology and the conundrums. In the end, Jesus' teachings suit me fine and personally I don't see any better philosophy of life and relationship with God out there.

I cannot rationalize the non-existence of a Creator based on the simple fact that all this stuff had to come from somewhere and that that Somewhere had to come be from eternity. That's my take on all this.

Some may see it different. Well it's their life and they are entitled to that.

Besides they have to deal with their consequences of decisions just like I have to deal with mine.

I believe the Jesus is alive. That's my faith, that's my life, that's my choice. Everyone has to make their own.

I would never compel anyone to believe anything I was not sure of and I will always bring what I believe to be the truth to any conversation religious or otherwise without flinching.

Some may believe I am a nut but that's okay. I'm a happy and fulfilled nut who knows where he stands with His maker. I have been blessed with a wonderful family and I am looking forward to the future.

It's not easy, but I don't believe God ever promised us easy.

To each his own. Live on.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Huey.

I agree with what you say and would happily have an open mind to any topic. But these violent thoughts of hate and revenge if you have an opinion, is anti God.

I am sure Jesus used to wander around enjoying questions on theology and calmly discussing religion.

I think Waco Man, and people like him, give religion a bad name. In my youth I listened to these religious blackmailers who promised you hell if you did not believe. All it did was make me agree at the time of the hell fire speech just so I would not get shouted at. Then my friends and I would laugh about the aggressive sermon afterwards. Does more harm than good.

If a person decides to take on the role as god's spokesman, howling verses out of the bible and telling people how useless they are, is not the way to do it.
9 months ago: "The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence."

Wow.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
9 months ago: "The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence."

One has to have pride in spades to speak for an imaginary deity, claim religious exclusivity / supremacy, and condemn other religions as false. In fact, one must have the delusion of infallibility to believe in such. Wow is right.
9 months ago: Jesus claimed what He claimed and I believe it. No one else has to if they want. That's their issue not mine.

The "wow" was because, TB nailed me. My pride rears it head every time I realize I am trying to run my life in my own strength. Pride City.

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Pride-and-A...

I also find it amusing when folks mistake confidence for arrogance. There is a difference.

I've already stated here and elsewhere that anyone can believe what they want with regard to their spirituality as long as they keep their hands off me and mine.

If it makes someone feel better to live a life of ultimate meaninglessness of irrationality regarding this universe, that's their business. I don't have to answer for them. I have no axe to grind. Go for it. I just know there is a better way.

I would like to think others would be as tolerant as I but I guess that's asking too much of the world.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
9 months ago: Huey,

...If it makes someone feel better to live a life of ultimate meaninglessness of irrationality regarding this universe, that's their business..

As opposed to having a meaningless life of irrationality where one imagines barbaric deities that orders it's human minions to butcher people or shed blood to satiate it's petulant anger?

Ergo, when you disrespect or denigrate other people's religion or non-religious philosophies, than you are subjecting your own religion to the same harsh scrutiny and your claim that it's their business seems insincere.

If people are hawking their religion like a used car (as is done on this website), they should expect people are going to kick the tires and look under the hood to see what nuts and bolts fall out. That's not to say people shouldn't have the right sell their religion like a used car or sell any point of view for that matter (religious or otherwise), but don't expect the sacred cow treatment or that your religion shouldn't be subject to the same criticism that you dish out for others. BTW, when I say 'you', I'm not pointing at you specifically.
9 months ago: MB - Dudage,

I understand where you are coming from. You and I actually agree more than we disagree.

It's never my intent to denigrate or dis-respect another's religion or lack of it. But when certain contributors here look down their nose at my faith and try to disrespect where I'm coming from; when folks generalize and try to put words in my mouth that I have never typed or even implied, they are going to run into a sword.

I don't expect to be molly coddled regarding my beliefs but I'm not going to be silent when they are outright attacked either. I sure you can understand that.

Both of my feet are planted firmly in reality. Some may beg to differ with regard to that. Oh, well.

To me it is illogical, irrational and quite delusional to NOT believe in a Creator or at least the possibility of being created, on purpose, by a power higher than ourselves. It's not my intent to put anyone down by saying that. It's just the way I see it.

We can disagree without being disagreeable here. Unfortunately some folks here won't allow that.

Thank you for giving me a pause to think and not just respond.
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
9 months ago: Mark,

...you said... "One has to have pride in spades to speak for an imaginary deity, claim religious exclusivity / supremacy, and condemn other religions as false."

...NO, one just needs his life changed by the ever living Almighty God !:]
...IF my life has been changed... and I am this kind of "idiot" ...can you imagine how I was before?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Re;...NO, one just needs his life changed by the ever living Almighty God !:]
...IF my life has been changed... and I am this kind of "idiot" ...can you imagine how I was before?

Waco! do you really think out of the six billion plus on this earth your god selected you to change your life? Do you really believe you are that important?
In all your posts the emphasis is on you, 'I' this, 'Me' that. Go look into your mirror, you will then see your god.
8 months ago: Mark I don't condemn any religion. Why do you?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Huey
Re: The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence.

Huey the biggest thing seperating anyone from religion, is to be insulted by a man wearing blinkers.
9 months ago: Hi PT,

Thanks for reaching out direct. I think I know what you mean. See my link on "Pride and Arrogance"

If we are honest, we all know we have moment s of sinful pride. We can all be guilty of that. Repentance is a good thing.

Here's a better quote "The biggest thing separating anyone from God is religion or their intellectual argument."

Please, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Huey.
There is no evidence. Other than Ra11, where esle do the history books and the bible agree on anything? Now I may seem a little harsh on religion sometimes but that is because too many people use it as a weapon against others. As everybody knows if you dig deep enough into religion you will find a dangerous person willing to slaghter weaker people in the name of God.
Good manners and social skills do not rely on the bible, but the person. People everyday do fantastic and wonderfull things to help there fellow men. These people don't start spitting verses of vengance and retribution, they shut there front doors and carry on as normal. They certainly do not accuse everything that does not worship them. What was that passage in the bible,' Beware false Gods, turn the other cheek, an eye for an eye,' etc. Because the bible can be deliberatly interpretated into how every individual wishes it. There will always be evil in this world. Some just hide their evilness better than others.
9 months ago: PT - We should do what is right because it is right. That's a pure motive. My life is not lived to escape hell but to exalt my Maker and bless others.

I hate religion. I only use that term in this forum because otherwise some would not know what I'm speaking to when I didn't.

Biblically speaking, heaven is not a reward for good behavior, its a gift received in Christ. We cannot earn brownie points. It's a matter of grace and mercy.

Those being the facts we should be humble in our standing, not proud or condescending even when provoked. I miss it sometimes, but then again there's mercy.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Huey.
I respect your comments, and I respect you.
Let me tell you a little, true, story I was part of as a child.

I must have been about nine years old. A man down on his luck asked if I could help him by giving him some money. I did not have any money but my church was 100 yards away, and being an alter boy and a member of that church, I took the poor man to see the priest. The man told the priest his problems and then asked the priest for some money. The priest went off and came back and gave the man a big bag full of coins. The poor man down on his luck walked out of the vestery with tears of gratitude and went away. I said, "Father that was a good thing you did then." And the priest replied, "No it was not, they were all the dud coins that people put in the plate on a Sunday, washers mostly."

8 months ago: I agree with most of what you said.
I don't think anyone promised us a Rose Garden so why should we expect one.
It is all about how we handle life and who we don't hurt getting around and through our own hurdles.
People who use religion as a weapon don't have any concept of what life is all about. They go to extremes and wreck the world for the rest of us because they are losers and shallow and weak.
Well, that's my take on it.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
9 months ago: I don't know much about the programs, but it seems that AA, Al Anon and many other anti addiction treatment programs rely on religion. Perhaps it is psychologically better to remove responsibility from the individual and place the responsibility in the hands of a deity. Once they turn over control of their fate to their god, they do often improve. Good on em. It is just when they zealously try to convince everyone they meet that their solution would work for everyone else that it becomes creepy.

PT I agree with you that being told that we are doomed to eternal damnation unless we accept Jesus as our personal savior, is pretty obnoxious.

I think that agnostics and atheists are morally superior to religious extremists because they do good works and refrain from doing bad things without coercion and the threat of punishment. They do the right thing because it is best for the community.
9 months ago: Within all the camps, be they atheist, agnostic or spiritual/religious there are those who have a higher standard of morality than others. To say atheists and agnostics are morally superior to anyone else on the basis of their non belief or questioning of the existence of a Maker is non-sense in the highest order.

There's your arrogance.

As a matter of fact, the bloodiest murders on this planet have been atheists and agnostics. That's not me condemning all atheists and agnostics either. That's just the facts.

It's amazing that the same folks who claim to teach tolerance, will tolerate anything other than Jesus. Unless of course you butcher, edit, and water down the message. No tolerance for Jesus unless he is created in their image. What a joke.

We all should so the right thing because it is the right thing.

Unfortunately too many people from all walks of life do not do that. Sad but true.

Tell U what though, I thank God for the criminal justice system. Sure makes me feel better to know that there is the threat of punishment out there for folks that are considering doing wrong. Anyone that has an iota of common sense would have to agree with that.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Huey.
I agree that agnostics and gnostics have always been a loggerheads. The reason for this is that agnostics think they are right. No compramise. The gnostics on the other hand have had to go through their lives listening to religeous bigots and being bullied into pretending they believe.

So in my book the gnostics have the hardest road. They do good things for goodness's sake. Not stand in an over expensive cathederal, with golden chalices, and fantastic works of art. Shouting at their brainwashed flock that they must give more to the church or you are off to hell for eternity.

Relgion is a business the same as any other. But they make shed loads of money, not by supplying a product, but by supplying fear. And these brutes that threaten people and give them false hope should be brought to account.

As I have mentioned in the past, a church near me interviews worshipers, find out how wealthy they are, and if they pass the strict economic levels they are allowed to attend church when the TV networks are filming. Also when the TV is there everyone sings a lot louder than they normally do.

I have seen this, and this says to me that it is not only Waco, that has a worship, money, status, me, obsession, they have all got it. So I say this from experience and reading, that these god botherers do not have any religious leanings. The only thing they worship is money and status.

Well you tell them that they fly off the handle.
9 months ago: "I think that agnostics and atheists are morally superior to religious extremists because they do good works and refrain from doing bad things without coercion and the threat of punishment. They do the right thing because it is best for the community. "

So a world populated by only atheists and agnostics will usher in a crime free paradise? Yeah. In your twisted fantasy world.

Here's more like it...

"..the atheist stands with utter confidence on an intellectual foundation comprised of things of which he knows nothing."

"the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior. "

Vox Day

Kind of sums it up nicely.

If it were not for the overt prejudice, arrogance and just plain ignorance reflected in that first statement I quoted, I would just have left this alone.

However, rotting corpses need to be buried.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Al.
I would respect a man who did good things because he was a good person.

I do not respect people who do good things to get a reward in heaven.

These bible punchers, don't they know that God is not stupid and can see what peoples motives are for doing something.

A few years ago a man laid near a railway track with one leg over the rail. A train came along and his leg was cut off. When he was taken to hospital he told the world it happened because he tried to save a dog. He was a hero in everyone eyes, in reality he was a ****ing idiot.

The moral of that ****-bit? Don't shout too loud how wonderful you are people might probe a little deeper into your life than you expected, and see the real person.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Al
Re; I don't know much about the programs, but it seems that AA, Al Anon and many other anti addiction treatment programs rely on religion.

Like religion these are plaforms for some people to misuse. I have been to a few meetings myself. While I was at these meetings, feeling like ****, and gagging for a drink, a person would go to the head of the meeting and us all how wonderful they are for beating the booze, they now have a big house, big car, big belly etc.

There are people that have to ruin the hope somebody needs to recover. These are trolls in the real world.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Al

A good man to me would be somebody that knew somebody else had, say, fanacial problems that were ruining a life or lives. Went and paid off the debts and never tell a soul about it. Doing good things because you are a good person means more than some unstable time bomb of a person waving a copy of the bible telling the world how great he is.

Which brings me to another thing, if religious people do good things because they want to go to heaven? Is that not as shallow as doing good deeds for money?
9 months ago: Matthew 6:1-4.

Good deeds are to be done before God, not as a show for others. Even when said deeds are recognized by others, that should not be our purpose or motivation in doing them.
8 months ago: How come I don't see it that way?
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Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Test my faith at your peril!

See Waco Man, your are not the be and end all.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hey Waco.
Tell me, when you are praying what are you thinking of?
9 months ago: Paper.

You know the bottle doesn't make your life meaningful.

When Jesus said to knock the dust from your sandals, he was talking about Bible thumping hypocrits too.

When I pray, I think about the Holy Spirit. When one thinks about the Holy Spirit, you can feel his Holy Spirit touch your soul. Goosebumps.

Honestly Paper.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hi Red.
As another person I deeply respect, I welcome your comments.

When I was a child and had to say the Rosery or the Stations of the Cross, I never did, and do not now ,know what I am supposed to be thinking when I am praying?

Do I try to think of God as a man or do I think of the things I am praying for?
An example would be to pray to stop starvation and cruelty in this world. Do I think of the people starving or do I think about God making things better? I know this sounds silly but nobody has ever answered that question for me.

I would imagine that when some people think of their god they just think of themselves.
9 months ago: Paper Tiger - My two cents -

I can't say what's right for you. It's an individual thing. I'll share what works for me.

When I pray I know I am approaching the Creator of this Universe and all that is in it. That's an awesome privilege and one I don't take lightly.

I approach through Christ who has made the way for me. It's on His merit and His alone that I have the confidence to know that I am accepted and heard. I am in the family and in the kingdom, I am His child.

I let Him know first and foremost that I appreciate Him and that I appreciate the life He has given me. I think of the Lord. God is spirit. I speak and reflect on how He has impacted my life, I think of all the things that I am thankful for. All the blessings.

I speak everything that is on my heart or mind at the time. Joys and pains. Victories and disappointments. All of it.

I'll ask for wisdom, insight and for forgiveness if I know I've blown it in some area before I petition anything.

Asking is something we have the privilege to do. Motivation should be from a heart that is sincere and unselfish. Doesn't mean I don't ask for things for myself, but my prayer life is never all about me.

When I pray for folks, I think about them. What their needs may be and ask God to supply or meet those needs. He wants relationship, but in the end His will be done. Prayer often lines my will up better with His and teaches me things I otherwise would have never known had I not communicated and then either received or looked for the answer.

I know I have blind spots so I let God be God and let Him handle the situation as He sees fit and leave it there.

It's good to have a time of silence too. Gaining insight and wisdom are often found in silence and not speaking.

No worrying or fretting allowed afterward either. Takes away the peace you would otherwise have had regarding the situation and yet changes nothing.

Prayer is communication with your Maker. It's plain and simple, yet complex and dynamic at the same time.

PT - I know He's there and I know He responds. It's an exciting journey to say the least.

All that being said, the best way to learn how to pray is to just do it. Best wishes.

Huey
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Thany you Huey.
You are a kind and gentle man. I will take your advise and try to think these things when I am praying. Sometimes when I am praying I feel like I am always asking for something, and that makes me feel guilty. Thats the reason I asked.
8 months ago: Paper.

Pardon my dealy in responding.

2 things.

1. Every body, and I mean every body, is a sinner. Period.
2. Jesus gave instructions how to pray. Read Matthew, Chapter 6. That chapter may answer all your questions.

8 months ago: Beautiful Huey.
I wish all people could see that light.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
9 months ago: Hey Waco.
You removed your comment, why was that? Is my physicology working on you. Are you thinking before sticking your great big feet in your mouth? Listen to the Tiger and your poisoned mind will heal. Tell me your problems and we will get through them. Waco you can be healed!