Culture & Lifestyle

Rant

Swapping religion for The Bottle.

Posted 38 months ago|170 comments|5,154 views
Written by
Paper Tiger
England
I have been accused of mocking the Bible because, I am so evil, that I dare to ask questions that I don't understand. After giving this alot of thought I began to understand how easily led people can be lured into a religious sect. And if I was a member of that sect I would be justly shot for my impudence.

So who do these zealots think they are? They usually are the ones that swap the bottle for religion. Thay think they are on a higher plane then us mere mortals. They need constant recognition to inflate sagging ego's. When I read how someone used to be a drunk, a brawler a bad person, I see that as bragging and an element of pride involved too.

What I don't need is to be treated like a ****ing idiot because I do not believe everything I am told. These Waco wannabe's should round up a group of followers, take them into the wilderness and tell these zombies how bad they are because they need to worship without question.

I have had religion shoved down my throat for many years. As a child I was taught that if I did not go to church on Sunday I would be dipped in moulten lava for eternity. If I thought bad thoughts I would be dammed. I was brought up and taught by nuns and priests, and everything had a bad consequence. How dare you sum me up in one word, mockery.

Test my faith at your peril!

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COMMENTS
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: And another thing, what do you bible punchers do? Do you ever actually help anyone in need. Or if you see someone starving in the street, do you give them money or advice?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: These right wing preachers remind me of a story my mother used to tell me.

Amole, a creature blind from birth, once said to his mother, 'I am sure that I can see mother!' In the desire to prove to him his mistake, his mother placed before him a few grains of frankincense, and asked, 'What is it?' the young mole said it is a pebble.' His mother exclaimed, 'My son, I am afraid that you are not only blind, but you have lost your sense of smell.

What does that say to you? It says to me that ignorance is a dangerous thing, and you need to keep your mind open as your way is not the only way.
sunny2
sunny2
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sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Of course, help in every way possible that you can. That is second nature.
Life is the best teacher. The givers are not takers. Takers are not givers.
I've seen the so called bible punchers do a lot of harm in the name of their beliefs. Boils down to what we have learned through living and how much we are willing to give back. Again, it has to do with each individual and what they feel they can do to make a difference.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: The title should be swapping the bottle for religion
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Yes some do? I've seen that over and over again. I've seen a lot of cruelty come out of being misguided.
Like I said before a person has to find themselves in any way that he can. If he can't learn, then he doesn't want to. A person has to believe in something, and it doesn't matter which religion they choose.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
38 months ago: If you want to correct the title, I can delete the post and you can repost it with the correct title. Let me know.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Thanks Mark but let it stay as it is.
38 months ago: PT,

You made a good point (one) earlier, about certain confidentiality, so I reworked my response after deleting the other one. I let someone get under my skin...
Here is the revised version...

"I take it you are referring to me... I would hapily be thrown in with the Bible believing lot, as to my late entry to this post...

SO sorry I didn't have time to respond to your feelings of self-pity, I was in court all yesterday fighting for the chance to adopt a child, and was delivered only to be threatened to a life of neglect and abuse in her "natural" setting... so where were we?

IF you have a problem with me, I admit you have your hands full... however IF your fight is with God, His Word, and His provision for your sin... then I suggest you take it up with Him. This is the classic can't get the desired response from someone, so you take it up in a public forum to "embarrass" your opponent... sorry, I am still recovering from the alcoholic-self-destruction-memories that your attempt at a guilt-trip has no effect. I would recommend that you take 2 minutes, on your knees, and humbly ask Jesus Christ to encourage you, and heal the hurt that idiots like me have caused in your life... that's what I do, and it helps."
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: So there are no comments then? Does that mean you all agree wholeheartedly with my post? The right wing bible punchers have seen the error of their ways? That's good I can now go back to hibernation.
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markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
38 months ago: I don't see where he mentioned your name and from my perspective, the problem isn't with one's invisible / imaginary deity. The problem is 'shoving religion down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies.

When that's one's modus operandi, they should expect nothing less than contempt and disrespect in return - such a person should be happy to swallow the medicine that they themselves dispense but they invariably cry tears of persecution instead, and invoke the wrath of their imaginary deity.

Another aspect here is children and while you can raise YOUR child in whatever religion you want, but human beings including children have free will and when you cross the line to compel somebody into religion, the end result may in fact be quite the opposite of what the religious proselyters desired.
38 months ago: Mark,

I was the only one as far as I know, that said PT was a mocker...

"PT,
I think that if you truly don't understand, you should spend less time mocking the Bible and it's believers. IN other of your comments you slight and mock the contents and applications of the Bible... so why give a care if you don't understand it, or why care if you are unable to believe it, if it is all just a big joke? I think that God on purpose closes the eyes and minds of the mockers... at least until they show Him some respect and humble themselves, giving Him the honor Almighty God deserves.
Things haven't changed that much for me over the years... I still owe the Lord daily gratitude and service.... and on my knees in prayer is a good place to start."
http://www.rantrave.com/Rave/Was-Half-th...
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/How-many-an...

...and I don't mind the backlash, I am just simply saying "grow up" ...if you don't believe it simply that you won't believe.... God is not prejudiced against anyone... He loves all whom He created, friend or foe. The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence.

"...As the Scriptures say, "God opposes the proud but favors the humble." (James 4:6)
38 months ago: Mark,

I do agree with you on something though...

"The problem is 'shoving [evolution] down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies."
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
38 months ago: ..."The problem is 'shoving [evolution] down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies."...

If you had said, 'shoving Atheism down people's throat;, I'd be inclined to agree since it's an unprovable proposition. On the other, Scientific theory is not religion and it based on the Scientific method. Unlike the charlatanism of religion, Science has proven itself and without it, we wouldn't be having this discussion using some of the most advanced technologies that Science has devised.

Also, unlike religion, Science can and has acknowledged error or revised theory based on new data. So to compare the fantasy of religion with Science is patently absurd. If you're that irrational, you could just as well say, "shoving down Physics, Electrical Engineering, Meteorology, etc down people's throat."

Are you honestly comparing Science to a religious fantasy that is absolutely unprovable and has zero basis in Science or rationalism?
38 months ago: Mark,

You are delirious... Evolution is a theory, not science. It is merely a school of thought, belief, and faith... not science. I agree with science, one can't dispute facts... however, theories are just that... or didn't you get the memo. Maybe if you meme a bit longer "they" like CR will call it the "Law" ...then comes the post religious inquisition.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Truth
Why are you taking this rave to be all about you? As I know, so I wiil share it with you, there are others on this planet besides your very good self. I coomend you in the good you are doing with adoption, but you should keep that private. That little girl does not need any publicity.

As for feelings of self pity, I am very very proud of the person I turned out to be, but that proudness stays where it should, in my own mind, not broadcasted to the world.

As a shining beacon in the religious world, you should not take my posts personally. As for getting down on my knees, the only times I do that is if I drop something. Truth, I can understand your need for constant attention, but because your ego is so shallow, try to focus on other humans, rather than build your own shrine, and use Gods good name to promote your own wonderfullness.

I truely believe you need some councelling, as the many fighst you have told us about so often, and be so proud of is not normal. Instead of talk the talk my friend try walking the walk. If you need to talk, you know how to contact me.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hey Waco Man.
So you have now promoted yourself as Gods personal spokesperson. The bible you talk about shoud carry a health warning, like a pack of cigarettes. I think that your bullying brawling days has damaged you mentally. Get your religion in prospective, you are confusing yourself with god.

What I suggest is the you peep out of your curtains to see if there any strange cars in your street. Black cars with four men with black suits on. Some of your messages are wierd. I believe you spew out religion by proxy.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Mark
Re; I don't see where he mentioned your name?
A person with a self image problem thinks everthing is about him.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re; I take it you are referring to me... I would hapily be thrown in with the Bible believing lot, as to my late entry to this post...

Re; SO sorry I didn't have time to respond to your feelings of self-pity,

Re; IF you have a problem with me, I admit you have your hands full...

Who the **** do you think you are? So if I dissagree with you I have my hands full? Back to the bragging again then, eh? Had I met you in your brawling, drunken days that you are so proud of, you would have stopped drinking sooner than you anticipated.

In my life I have met many many people like yourself, who will do anything at all for attention. People like yourself need people like me, who are not in the least intimidated by your mindless wonderings, and thuggish threats, to drag you back into reality.

Take some advice go and see a specialist, be honest and fight your "ME" disease and it is going to be harder than you think. Keep on repeating to yourself, "I am not special, I am a ordinary person." In time it should jar your head into reality.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re; I take it you are referring to me... I would hapily be thrown in with the Bible believing lot, as to my late entry to this post...

Believe it or not Waco Man the universe isn't revolving around you, it's revolving around all of us. You seem to have taken the role of spokesman for your god, has this been made official?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: or why care if you are unable to believe it, if it is all just a big joke?

Let me try to understand your logic? If I cannot believe somthing, I think it's a big joke?

So I don't understand everything about cancer and disease, I see no joke in those circumstances. When you try to belittle somebody because they have a different perspective in life you, you are showing your ignorance or a lower level of inteligence than most. If history had been full of bogots and fools, we would still have slavery, women would not have a vote, and laws that allow people to believe in their chosen religion. Waco Man, stop and think before putting your brain in gear.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re; "The problem is 'shoving [evolution] down people's throats' and contempt /disrespect /intolerance for other religions or non-religious philosophies."

Waco Man I connot believe you wrote that, the most intolerent person I have ever been in contact with, whining about people being intolerent.

Waco, you have made my day!
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: you are delirious... Evolution is a theory, not science. It is merely a school of thought, belief, and faith.

Waco Man, and religion is not?
38 months ago: TP,

I think this little rant allowed the real you to surface... one no longer needs to tread lightly on your fragility. As to "having your hands full" ...I was referring to my tendency toward ignorance... and not a "threat" as you put it. I do think however that your name for this post is correct... by your wild ravings you must have had a few !:]

Oh, in case anyone is wondering...
...you can't "kill" a dead man... he can only be resurrected !
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Waco Man.
Never tread lighly with me fool. In the begining of my post there was a warning, you are too stupid to understand that warning.

Now then Mr Manson, Waco Man. You throw out threats as challenges and when people bite, as you intended them to, you try to slither out of it by saying, you have got the wrong end of the stick. If you are going to try to put somebody down, have the courage of your convictions and admit it.

Was your nasty remark about me, "having a few" something else I have misunderstood? You Waco, Mason Man, insult people and their beliefs, then run and hide behind your god. I bet your god is happy to have you as a sociopath promoting his religion.

Waco, Manson Man. Tell me more about your drunken brawling days, the booze was the excuse then and religion is your excuse now. Now ****wit this is what this post is all about. And because you live with your head up your own arse, you are too stupid to understand that.

I would like to talk to somebody that is close to you, maybe your physiologia.
Thats Latin not one too many, fool.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Paper I read your comment again.
Religion should be a freedom for each person to reach their goals of understanding Christ whether they struggle with it, or not.
I had people try that on me didn't get them anywhere. They were so insulted, but I didn't care because I was beyond that.
I'll tell you I had nuns and priest when I was a kid, and the only thing I can remember is they forced me to drink all my milk. I hated that ritual at recess every single day. I had one nun when I was about 4 years old look at me with pure dislike. When you are a child, that is traumatic. They are only people. Anyway we came back home. The only thing I got from everything was learning an feeling close to God which was an has been a great gift.
Church every single Sunday doesn't enforce belief. Going out there in the World and living does. I tend to agree with your comment.
georgeberaobama
georgeberaobama
Blakely Island, WA
38 months ago: A wolf resolved to disguise his appearance so he could get more food, more easily. He dressed in the skin of a sheep, and pastured with the flock, decieving the shepherd by his costume. In the evening he was shut up by the shepherd in the fold, the gate was closed and locked. But the shepherd returned to his fold during the night to obtain meat for the next day. He mistakenly caught and killed the wolf.

Harm Seek Harm Find
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
38 months ago: I'm inlined to agree but I'd rather deal with a religious nut than a drunk. Either one is an escape from rationalism and reality but a benign religious fantasy won't be as debilitating as alcoholism or drug addiction, and it can have a positive placebo effect. The key though is benign and when religious fanaticism and associated forms of demogogery get entangled with political power, "political questions became matters of good and evil to be fought to the death."
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Mark.

I must dissagree with you about preferring to deal with a religious nut than a drunk. A drunk sobers up.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
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Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: PT - nothing wrong with asking questions. You strike me as a sincere guy and I've always enjoyed your posts and conversing with you.

As far as the Bible goes, I personally I got to the point of where I got tired of everyone else telling me what the book(s) say and what I am supposed to believe, so I read it for myself.

Studied the history, archeology and the conundrums. In the end, Jesus' teachings suit me fine and personally I don't see any better philosophy of life and relationship with God out there.

I cannot rationalize the non-existence of a Creator based on the simple fact that all this stuff had to come from somewhere and that that Somewhere had to come be from eternity. That's my take on all this.

Some may see it different. Well it's their life and they are entitled to that.

Besides they have to deal with their consequences of decisions just like I have to deal with mine.

I believe the Jesus is alive. That's my faith, that's my life, that's my choice. Everyone has to make their own.

I would never compel anyone to believe anything I was not sure of and I will always bring what I believe to be the truth to any conversation religious or otherwise without flinching.

Some may believe I am a nut but that's okay. I'm a happy and fulfilled nut who knows where he stands with His maker. I have been blessed with a wonderful family and I am looking forward to the future.

It's not easy, but I don't believe God ever promised us easy.

To each his own. Live on.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Huey.

I agree with what you say and would happily have an open mind to any topic. But these violent thoughts of hate and revenge if you have an opinion, is anti God.

I am sure Jesus used to wander around enjoying questions on theology and calmly discussing religion.

I think Waco Man, and people like him, give religion a bad name. In my youth I listened to these religious blackmailers who promised you hell if you did not believe. All it did was make me agree at the time of the hell fire speech just so I would not get shouted at. Then my friends and I would laugh about the aggressive sermon afterwards. Does more harm than good.

If a person decides to take on the role as god's spokesman, howling verses out of the bible and telling people how useless they are, is not the way to do it.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: "The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence."

Wow.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
38 months ago: "The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence."

One has to have pride in spades to speak for an imaginary deity, claim religious exclusivity / supremacy, and condemn other religions as false. In fact, one must have the delusion of infallibility to believe in such. Wow is right.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Jesus claimed what He claimed and I believe it. No one else has to if they want. That's their issue not mine.

The "wow" was because, TB nailed me. My pride rears it head every time I realize I am trying to run my life in my own strength. Pride City.

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Pride-and-A...

I also find it amusing when folks mistake confidence for arrogance. There is a difference.

I've already stated here and elsewhere that anyone can believe what they want with regard to their spirituality as long as they keep their hands off me and mine.

If it makes someone feel better to live a life of ultimate meaninglessness of irrationality regarding this universe, that's their business. I don't have to answer for them. I have no axe to grind. Go for it. I just know there is a better way.

I would like to think others would be as tolerant as I but I guess that's asking too much of the world.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
38 months ago: Huey,

...If it makes someone feel better to live a life of ultimate meaninglessness of irrationality regarding this universe, that's their business..

As opposed to having a meaningless life of irrationality where one imagines barbaric deities that orders it's human minions to butcher people or shed blood to satiate it's petulant anger?

Ergo, when you disrespect or denigrate other people's religion or non-religious philosophies, than you are subjecting your own religion to the same harsh scrutiny and your claim that it's their business seems insincere.

If people are hawking their religion like a used car (as is done on this website), they should expect people are going to kick the tires and look under the hood to see what nuts and bolts fall out. That's not to say people shouldn't have the right sell their religion like a used car or sell any point of view for that matter (religious or otherwise), but don't expect the sacred cow treatment or that your religion shouldn't be subject to the same criticism that you dish out for others. BTW, when I say 'you', I'm not pointing at you specifically.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: MB - Dudage,

I understand where you are coming from. You and I actually agree more than we disagree.

It's never my intent to denigrate or dis-respect another's religion or lack of it. But when certain contributors here look down their nose at my faith and try to disrespect where I'm coming from; when folks generalize and try to put words in my mouth that I have never typed or even implied, they are going to run into a sword.

I don't expect to be molly coddled regarding my beliefs but I'm not going to be silent when they are outright attacked either. I sure you can understand that.

Both of my feet are planted firmly in reality. Some may beg to differ with regard to that. Oh, well.

To me it is illogical, irrational and quite delusional to NOT believe in a Creator or at least the possibility of being created, on purpose, by a power higher than ourselves. It's not my intent to put anyone down by saying that. It's just the way I see it.

We can disagree without being disagreeable here. Unfortunately some folks here won't allow that.

Thank you for giving me a pause to think and not just respond.
38 months ago: Mark,

...you said... "One has to have pride in spades to speak for an imaginary deity, claim religious exclusivity / supremacy, and condemn other religions as false."

...NO, one just needs his life changed by the ever living Almighty God !:]
...IF my life has been changed... and I am this kind of "idiot" ...can you imagine how I was before?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re;...NO, one just needs his life changed by the ever living Almighty God !:]
...IF my life has been changed... and I am this kind of "idiot" ...can you imagine how I was before?

Waco! do you really think out of the six billion plus on this earth your god selected you to change your life? Do you really believe you are that important?
In all your posts the emphasis is on you, 'I' this, 'Me' that. Go look into your mirror, you will then see your god.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Mark I don't condemn any religion. Why do you?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Huey
Re: The biggest thing separating anyone from God though, is pride... not evidence.

Huey the biggest thing seperating anyone from religion, is to be insulted by a man wearing blinkers.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Hi PT,

Thanks for reaching out direct. I think I know what you mean. See my link on "Pride and Arrogance"

If we are honest, we all know we have moment s of sinful pride. We can all be guilty of that. Repentance is a good thing.

Here's a better quote "The biggest thing separating anyone from God is religion or their intellectual argument."

Please, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Huey.
There is no evidence. Other than Ra11, where esle do the history books and the bible agree on anything? Now I may seem a little harsh on religion sometimes but that is because too many people use it as a weapon against others. As everybody knows if you dig deep enough into religion you will find a dangerous person willing to slaghter weaker people in the name of God.
Good manners and social skills do not rely on the bible, but the person. People everyday do fantastic and wonderfull things to help there fellow men. These people don't start spitting verses of vengance and retribution, they shut there front doors and carry on as normal. They certainly do not accuse everything that does not worship them. What was that passage in the bible,' Beware false Gods, turn the other cheek, an eye for an eye,' etc. Because the bible can be deliberatly interpretated into how every individual wishes it. There will always be evil in this world. Some just hide their evilness better than others.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: PT - We should do what is right because it is right. That's a pure motive. My life is not lived to escape hell but to exalt my Maker and bless others.

I hate religion. I only use that term in this forum because otherwise some would not know what I'm speaking to when I didn't.

Biblically speaking, heaven is not a reward for good behavior, its a gift received in Christ. We cannot earn brownie points. It's a matter of grace and mercy.

Those being the facts we should be humble in our standing, not proud or condescending even when provoked. I miss it sometimes, but then again there's mercy.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Huey.
I respect your comments, and I respect you.
Let me tell you a little, true, story I was part of as a child.

I must have been about nine years old. A man down on his luck asked if I could help him by giving him some money. I did not have any money but my church was 100 yards away, and being an alter boy and a member of that church, I took the poor man to see the priest. The man told the priest his problems and then asked the priest for some money. The priest went off and came back and gave the man a big bag full of coins. The poor man down on his luck walked out of the vestery with tears of gratitude and went away. I said, "Father that was a good thing you did then." And the priest replied, "No it was not, they were all the dud coins that people put in the plate on a Sunday, washers mostly."

sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: I agree with most of what you said.
I don't think anyone promised us a Rose Garden so why should we expect one.
It is all about how we handle life and who we don't hurt getting around and through our own hurdles.
People who use religion as a weapon don't have any concept of what life is all about. They go to extremes and wreck the world for the rest of us because they are losers and shallow and weak.
Well, that's my take on it.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
38 months ago: I don't know much about the programs, but it seems that AA, Al Anon and many other anti addiction treatment programs rely on religion. Perhaps it is psychologically better to remove responsibility from the individual and place the responsibility in the hands of a deity. Once they turn over control of their fate to their god, they do often improve. Good on em. It is just when they zealously try to convince everyone they meet that their solution would work for everyone else that it becomes creepy.

PT I agree with you that being told that we are doomed to eternal damnation unless we accept Jesus as our personal savior, is pretty obnoxious.

I think that agnostics and atheists are morally superior to religious extremists because they do good works and refrain from doing bad things without coercion and the threat of punishment. They do the right thing because it is best for the community.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Within all the camps, be they atheist, agnostic or spiritual/religious there are those who have a higher standard of morality than others. To say atheists and agnostics are morally superior to anyone else on the basis of their non belief or questioning of the existence of a Maker is non-sense in the highest order.

There's your arrogance.

As a matter of fact, the bloodiest murders on this planet have been atheists and agnostics. That's not me condemning all atheists and agnostics either. That's just the facts.

It's amazing that the same folks who claim to teach tolerance, will tolerate anything other than Jesus. Unless of course you butcher, edit, and water down the message. No tolerance for Jesus unless he is created in their image. What a joke.

We all should so the right thing because it is the right thing.

Unfortunately too many people from all walks of life do not do that. Sad but true.

Tell U what though, I thank God for the criminal justice system. Sure makes me feel better to know that there is the threat of punishment out there for folks that are considering doing wrong. Anyone that has an iota of common sense would have to agree with that.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Huey.
I agree that agnostics and gnostics have always been a loggerheads. The reason for this is that agnostics think they are right. No compramise. The gnostics on the other hand have had to go through their lives listening to religeous bigots and being bullied into pretending they believe.

So in my book the gnostics have the hardest road. They do good things for goodness's sake. Not stand in an over expensive cathederal, with golden chalices, and fantastic works of art. Shouting at their brainwashed flock that they must give more to the church or you are off to hell for eternity.

Relgion is a business the same as any other. But they make shed loads of money, not by supplying a product, but by supplying fear. And these brutes that threaten people and give them false hope should be brought to account.

As I have mentioned in the past, a church near me interviews worshipers, find out how wealthy they are, and if they pass the strict economic levels they are allowed to attend church when the TV networks are filming. Also when the TV is there everyone sings a lot louder than they normally do.

I have seen this, and this says to me that it is not only Waco, that has a worship, money, status, me, obsession, they have all got it. So I say this from experience and reading, that these god botherers do not have any religious leanings. The only thing they worship is money and status.

Well you tell them that they fly off the handle.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: "I think that agnostics and atheists are morally superior to religious extremists because they do good works and refrain from doing bad things without coercion and the threat of punishment. They do the right thing because it is best for the community. "

So a world populated by only atheists and agnostics will usher in a crime free paradise? Yeah. In your twisted fantasy world.

Here's more like it...

"..the atheist stands with utter confidence on an intellectual foundation comprised of things of which he knows nothing."

"the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior. "

Vox Day

Kind of sums it up nicely.

If it were not for the overt prejudice, arrogance and just plain ignorance reflected in that first statement I quoted, I would just have left this alone.

However, rotting corpses need to be buried.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Al.
I would respect a man who did good things because he was a good person.

I do not respect people who do good things to get a reward in heaven.

These bible punchers, don't they know that God is not stupid and can see what peoples motives are for doing something.

A few years ago a man laid near a railway track with one leg over the rail. A train came along and his leg was cut off. When he was taken to hospital he told the world it happened because he tried to save a dog. He was a hero in everyone eyes, in reality he was a ****ing idiot.

The moral of that ****-bit? Don't shout too loud how wonderful you are people might probe a little deeper into your life than you expected, and see the real person.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Al
Re; I don't know much about the programs, but it seems that AA, Al Anon and many other anti addiction treatment programs rely on religion.

Like religion these are plaforms for some people to misuse. I have been to a few meetings myself. While I was at these meetings, feeling like ****, and gagging for a drink, a person would go to the head of the meeting and us all how wonderful they are for beating the booze, they now have a big house, big car, big belly etc.

There are people that have to ruin the hope somebody needs to recover. These are trolls in the real world.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Al

A good man to me would be somebody that knew somebody else had, say, fanacial problems that were ruining a life or lives. Went and paid off the debts and never tell a soul about it. Doing good things because you are a good person means more than some unstable time bomb of a person waving a copy of the bible telling the world how great he is.

Which brings me to another thing, if religious people do good things because they want to go to heaven? Is that not as shallow as doing good deeds for money?
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Matthew 6:1-4.

Good deeds are to be done before God, not as a show for others. Even when said deeds are recognized by others, that should not be our purpose or motivation in doing them.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: How come I don't see it that way?
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Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Test my faith at your peril!

See Waco Man, your are not the be and end all.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hey Waco.
Tell me, when you are praying what are you thinking of?
38 months ago: Paper.

You know the bottle doesn't make your life meaningful.

When Jesus said to knock the dust from your sandals, he was talking about Bible thumping hypocrits too.

When I pray, I think about the Holy Spirit. When one thinks about the Holy Spirit, you can feel his Holy Spirit touch your soul. Goosebumps.

Honestly Paper.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Red.
As another person I deeply respect, I welcome your comments.

When I was a child and had to say the Rosery or the Stations of the Cross, I never did, and do not now ,know what I am supposed to be thinking when I am praying?

Do I try to think of God as a man or do I think of the things I am praying for?
An example would be to pray to stop starvation and cruelty in this world. Do I think of the people starving or do I think about God making things better? I know this sounds silly but nobody has ever answered that question for me.

I would imagine that when some people think of their god they just think of themselves.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Paper Tiger - My two cents -

I can't say what's right for you. It's an individual thing. I'll share what works for me.

When I pray I know I am approaching the Creator of this Universe and all that is in it. That's an awesome privilege and one I don't take lightly.

I approach through Christ who has made the way for me. It's on His merit and His alone that I have the confidence to know that I am accepted and heard. I am in the family and in the kingdom, I am His child.

I let Him know first and foremost that I appreciate Him and that I appreciate the life He has given me. I think of the Lord. God is spirit. I speak and reflect on how He has impacted my life, I think of all the things that I am thankful for. All the blessings.

I speak everything that is on my heart or mind at the time. Joys and pains. Victories and disappointments. All of it.

I'll ask for wisdom, insight and for forgiveness if I know I've blown it in some area before I petition anything.

Asking is something we have the privilege to do. Motivation should be from a heart that is sincere and unselfish. Doesn't mean I don't ask for things for myself, but my prayer life is never all about me.

When I pray for folks, I think about them. What their needs may be and ask God to supply or meet those needs. He wants relationship, but in the end His will be done. Prayer often lines my will up better with His and teaches me things I otherwise would have never known had I not communicated and then either received or looked for the answer.

I know I have blind spots so I let God be God and let Him handle the situation as He sees fit and leave it there.

It's good to have a time of silence too. Gaining insight and wisdom are often found in silence and not speaking.

No worrying or fretting allowed afterward either. Takes away the peace you would otherwise have had regarding the situation and yet changes nothing.

Prayer is communication with your Maker. It's plain and simple, yet complex and dynamic at the same time.

PT - I know He's there and I know He responds. It's an exciting journey to say the least.

All that being said, the best way to learn how to pray is to just do it. Best wishes.

Huey
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Thany you Huey.
You are a kind and gentle man. I will take your advise and try to think these things when I am praying. Sometimes when I am praying I feel like I am always asking for something, and that makes me feel guilty. Thats the reason I asked.
38 months ago: Paper.

Pardon my dealy in responding.

2 things.

1. Every body, and I mean every body, is a sinner. Period.
2. Jesus gave instructions how to pray. Read Matthew, Chapter 6. That chapter may answer all your questions.

sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Beautiful Huey.
I wish all people could see that light.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hey Waco.
You removed your comment, why was that? Is my physicology working on you. Are you thinking before sticking your great big feet in your mouth? Listen to the Tiger and your poisoned mind will heal. Tell me your problems and we will get through them. Waco you can be healed!
38 months ago: Paper,

I do like jousting with you... and truly, I know if I did tell you my problems, I am sure you would be a sincere help and encouragement... God Bless!
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: The Gospel of Thomas.

Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds he will become troubled, he will be astonished and he will rule over all."

The Gospel of Philip.

Is a compilation of Valentinian concepts, not the way some Christians interpret the Bible as being over literal.
38 months ago: PT,

Is that all you got?
IF you continue, you're the only one looking like a wacko !:]
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hey Bi polar man.

In the last message you rattled on about, how good you are but you keep it a secret, then end the post with God Bless.

Then you dribble out another post, see below.

Is that all you got?

IF you continue, you're the only one looking like a wacko !:]

Now I was going to leave it at the God Bless, but you could not, you have to have the last comment. Well Waco Man (Waco is a place), round two.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: Is that all you got?
IF you continue, you're the only one looking like a wacko !:]

Waco, not wacko. I've siplified it for you read below

Waco siege

The Mount Carmel Center in flames during the assault on April 19, 1993
Date February 28 – April 19, 1993
Location Mount Carmel Center, Waco, Texas, USA
31°35′45″N 96°59′17″W / 31.59583°N 96.98806°W / 31.59583; -96.98806Coordinates: 31°35′45″N 96°59′17″W / 31.59583°N 96.98806°W / 31.59583; -96.98806
Result Feb 28 raid: Shootout & ATF retreat
Apr 19 assault: Buildings burned to the ground resulting in deaths.

Belligerents
ATF & FBI
Texas National Guard
Texas Rangers Branch Davidians
Commanders and leaders
Jeff Jamar (ATF)
Richard Rogers (FBI) David Koresh †
Casualties and losses
Raid: 4 dead, 16 wounded
Assault: none Raid: 6 dead, 3+ wounded
Assault: 74 dead


Mount Carmel CenterLocation within Texas

The Waco siege began on February 28, 1993, and ended violently 50 days later on April 19.[1] The siege began when the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) attempted to execute a search warrant at the Branch Davidian ranch at Mount Carmel, a property located 9 miles (14 km) east-northeast of Waco, Texas. On February 28, shortly after the attempt to serve the warrant, an intense gun battle erupted, lasting nearly 2 hours. In the aftermath of this armed exchange, four agents and six Branch Davidians had been killed. Upon the ATF's failure to execute the search warrant, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The siege ended 50 days later when a second assault on the compound was made and a fire destroyed the compound. Seventy-six people (24 of them British nationals)[2] died in the fire, including more than 20 children, two pregnant women, and the sect leader David Koresh.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hey **** for brains this is for you!

Religious fanactics adopt dictatorial methods. Their brutal, aggressive and expansionist policies lead to war and bloodshed.

This train of thought resulted in the death of 20 million people, by another nut pursuing totally spurious and absurd theories. That was racism, yours is religionism. What's the difference butt head? None.

38 months ago: Good post PT made me smile while havin my corn flakes.
38 months ago: every religion comes down to making money.
they are just money making machines that put the fear of god into people.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi English, hows it hanging.

I've got some freak on my post hinting to me that he is the new Jesus Christ. A new Charles Mason more like.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
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Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: "every religion comes down to making money.
they are just money making machines that put the fear of god into people. "

Yep. Just ask Richard Dawkins. He's making a mint peddling his.

When you know who you are and why you are here there is no need to fear.

Religion, be it secular evolutionary pseudo-scientific back-wash or fire and brimstone emotional manipulation are all forms of bondage and hide the truth behind lies in order to control the individual.

BTW - Fear (reverence and respect) of God is not a bad thing when you know you are on the wrong side of Him. That can save your life.

"Free you mind and your a** will follow."
George Clinton
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Huey.

Sounds like a cure for constipation.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: The Ethiop Gods have Ethiop lips,
Bronze cheeks, and wooly hair,
The Grecian gods are like the Greeks,
As keen-eyed, cold and fair.

Anonymous.

As we all know, you are not the sharpest knife in the draw so I will help you with this one. The anonymous poet is saying that people make their gods to resemble them. What does your god resemble?

The devil can cite scripture for his purpose.
Shaks. Mer. of Venice, act 1 scene 3.

38 months ago: Faith based religion has an inherent difficulty. Those who believe have a piece of information that is accepted on faith ... this is the very definition of "Faith - based religion."

Did Jesus actually rise from the dead, was he actually the son of God? This bit of information that comes to us through historical documents and word of mouth can not be examined in person today. Alas.

We can not walk up to Jesus today and shake his hand and speak with him. And we can not meet people who knew him personally and talk with them, either. So, we depend on written words.

There is some leap of faith involved. And for some, the leap seems very small and quite obvious. But for others, it might seem quite a large leap. In either case, none of us like someones opinion shoved down our throats. Not about religion, not about politics, and probably, not about anything.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: Did Jesus actually rise from the dead, was he actually the son of God? This bit of information that comes to us through historical documents.

There is no evedence that Juses even lived. So what are these historical documents, the Bible?

Terryeo, I have my faith, and my faith is that there are some beautiful, kind people in this world. These people change lives for the better, and nobody ever knows.

Unlike others that give a begger a few cents, then rushes down their church to tell them and the world what wonderfull people they are. True goodness comes from wanting to help others, not to build a platform for their own ends.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: PT - Terryeo knows zip about Jesus and Whose Son He is.

Also, there specific facts that lend reason for faith. Some folks are just ignorant or unwilling to seriously look, that's all.
38 months ago: Hey Huey, it is widely accepted by Christians, Islam and others that Jesus was born of Mary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_%28mot...%29 There is some disagreement as to whether Mary's conception was immaculate (no male involved) or if Jacob (Mary's husband-to-be) was involved. And then Mary's parents, apparently, were named Joachim and Anne. Both Christianity and Islam agree on most of this. Me, what do I know but written records? If you know better, post it up. These are pretty well - agreed on data and anyone can know them. What we can't do is go ask Mary, "Hey girl, are you just making this up about being preggers without having the fun? Or did you get it on with big Jo when no one was around?"

If this grates on your nerves, Huey, I want to tell you how one of Huey Newton's quotes grates on my nerves http://brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/... says that Mr. Newton said:
The policemen or soldiers are only a gun in the establishments hand. They make the racist secure in his racism.

Martin Luther King would never agree with that. He thought big - he thought the constitution means just what it says - that all men are created equal, with equal rights. And these rights include BEING the establishment. I know that is true, myself.

I was not around when Jesus walked the Earth and changed mankind's thinking, but forever afterwards man's relationship with God is individual and created by an individual himself. Whereas before Jesus, the thinking was that man was not capable of this. But needed the guiding hand of a Priest, who acted as a sort of lawyer between self and God.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: In science many forms and species that reproduce are asexual so why is it so far fetched that a human can't be under certain circumstances that change the face of the World.
Mary never died according to the scriptures, so I guess you can ask her.
sunny2
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38 months ago: The Mother of God has proven herself over and over again through sightings and tears shed for the people that she loves. I don't know why it is so difficult to believe something. People have thrown down their crutches and have been healed physically blessed from the waters of Lourdes.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny.

Have you got Mary's phone number?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny.

Throwing down crutches is no miracle, growing new limbs is. So at Lourdes if their walls were covered with artificial limbs, I would agree with you. But they are not.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny.

Throwing down crutches is no miracle, growing new limbs is. So at Lourdes if their walls were covered with artificial limbs, I would agree with you. But they are not.
sunny2
sunny2
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38 months ago: Paper....No, but finding cures through stem cell research is and will grow new limbs and will make people walk again.
It is all the same thing because God's hand is in it.
I was very ill when I was a little child. My Mom prayed, and I was helpless and small and doctors told her I would die, but it turned out fine. Here I am annoying everyone with my faith and experiences. I guess I don't know anything according to some of you. I do understand where you are coming from PT. I'm sorry if I seemed critical. Everything comes in good time and when you are ready. By the way, we do help an entire Community to survive. Here in the States too. We don't want a thing back , only to make a difference which we have. It is a beautiful thing. So, I guess I do have a line right to Mary, especially when you are a small child reaching for life. Children can see much more clearly than others who have become somewhat clouded by life's mysteries and tend to lose hope in anything but what they see physically. Just like the story you related.
It is that "Show Me the Proof, but that is what it is all about.
38 months ago: TP,

I was going to bid you farewell, but you said... "Have you got Mary's phone number?"

...it would seem that you think someone is an "idiot" for not believing as you do, and your are questioning someones faith... my my... next thing we know, you have run off into the woods to catch Hale Bop ...with your glass of kool-aid !:]
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Good answer, Truth
sunny2
sunny2
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Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny.

Re: especially when you are a small child reaching for life. Children can see much more clearly than others who have become somewhat clouded by life's mysteries and tend to lose hope in anything but what they see physically. Just like the story you related.
It is that "Show Me the Proof, but that is what it is all about.

You have wonderful ideals and I deeply repect your perception on faith because you had a first hand experience. I think children see with more clarity because they are uncluttered by education, common sense, culture and the force feeding of religion has not started in earnest.

Take a child and put that child in an enviroment where the child learns about God's goodness, the love he has for mankind, the wonderful things that their god does in this world and have done. Reiforce that over the real formative years and it becomes part of you. The people you respect, trust and admire have told you wonderful things about their religion.

Then as you get older, phase two comes gently in. To keep this wonderful ideal alive it costs money, so when you want money where do you go? Do you ask the begger on the streets, or do you target middle class and rich people? The obvious answer is you are going to head towards the money. Then the people who have generated that wealth become important people in their social circles.

But what has happened to the begger, the one who really needs Gods help and love from his fellow 'man'? These infuencers in religion do not want these people in their back yard, so very cunningly, the church becomes a rotary club, a freemason society, a community that has profound roots that this needs to be treated as a business.

Then you enter phase three you become one of the people that tell children nice stories about God and His works, and there you have it, indoctrination.

What the leaders of all religions worry about is education, they want intelegent people but there are certain areas, like the apple tree in Eden, that are taboo. And as a model of indoctrination the cycle continues, like any sales pitch it is upgraded to keep up with the money but that is all it is, a business selling freedom from fear. The fear they instilled in you during your innocent youth.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: TP, it's PT.

I was going to bid you farewell, but you said... "Have you got Mary's phone number?"

...it would seem that you think someone is an "idiot" for not believing as you do, and your are questioning someones faith... my my... next thing we know, you have run off into the woods to catch Hale Bop ...with your glass of kool-aid !:]

Do you believe that after years and years as a practising Catholic, I woke up one morning and decided to insult everybody who believes? I see people perverting goodness and you are one of the worst. You know I have an addiction, and as the wonderful man you are, you attack that weakness every time you get the chance. You religion is to self serve your twisted ego. First you got your thrills by hurting smaller, weaker people, but that was not enough. Now you created your own cult. You use your religious cult to get thrills by hurting smaller, weaker people. You should have stayed a bully and a drunk. Or on this trip you are using religion for your bottle, and beating people up mentally.

Truthburry.

I am not attacking you because you have upset me. I really believe you are an evil person and use peoples beliefs to injure them if needs be. Having read through your posts, and I showed them to a physcologist, we truely believe you are dangerous, and your religion means nothing to you other than to get attention, what better way than to hit others with your bible, using a god that lives in the cancer of your brain.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: I was going to bid you farewell, but you said... "Have you got Mary's phone number?"

Truthberry you know I know don't you!
38 months ago: PT,

Wow, I don't know much about you let alone if you have an addiction! Other than that psycho analyze all you want... call me anything you want... if it makes you feel better.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: PT,

Re; Wow, I don't know much about you let alone if you have an addiction! Other than that psycho analyze all you want... call me anything you want... if it makes you feel better.

Are all North American, people patronising Hyporcrits?
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Hi T -

If you truly believe Jesus is the unique Son of God, I apologize for my quip earlier.

The account of Jesus conception and birth are accurately recorded in the Scriptures. Those who would deny Christ's message are the same that would say He was born of fornication.

As far as the cops, during the sixties they were in many cases an occupying force, colonizing Black communities. Ask Fred Hampton if you do not believe me. Oh, you can't. They murdered him.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Huey.....Just my thoughts on all of what is said. If anyone had the privilege taking a Pilgrimage and walking the Streets where Christ carried his cross, there might be a better understanding because of the special feeling that comes over you. It can open minds because my Dad went there with my Mom. She always wanted to go, and he promised her and finally fulfilled that promise. My Dad wasn't an overly religious person. He worked day in and day out to provide. My Mom was very humble and her beliefs were strong and made sure we went to church every Sunday. When they came back, he said to me that he heard the voice of God and that experience changed him forever. After that, he read up on the history of Jerusuleum and Christs' journey. It's for churches of all denominations. I would recommend visiting Jerusalem and experience first hand where Jesus lived and died for us. The more knowledge and experience one has whether good or bad adds to our lives if it brings us into a good place at the end with a better understanding of who we are and all we have learned we can be.
Knowing more about life, and not just saying you are right and I am wrong, sounds to me everyone needs some lessons. Including myself, there is so much more to know, and we don't have the answers. None of us.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Thanks Huey.

It's a pleasure to recieve post from you. Have a great day.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: You're welcome dude.

TO - has been adding his two cents to the post, so I wanted to keep him up to speed as well.

Remember when you were wondering what it was going to take to get more hits on your posts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHm_d1Jvw...

Amazing what a little controversy will do.

You have a great day too.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Oh Boy. What really is important here?
Happy Father's Day to all of you.
At the top of my wish list is "Peace."
Sunny
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny

What is peace? If there is a war on, and that war is to protect you, is that peace? Does peace mean being left alone, or does it means your have your friends and familly round? Does peace mean that a person on death row has been executed, making the world a safer place? Is peace a state where everyone agrees with you? Is peace believing in your god, or a different one?

So Sunny, what is peace for you?
sunny2
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38 months ago: PT If every individual wanted to live in peace, then there wouldn't be the crimes you mentioned. Unfortunately, that's called living and what we face each day caused by ignorance. There shouldn't be wars and there shouldn't be crime against society.
Seeing 5 brothers come back from different battles and wars, tells me someone was watching out for them. Don't get me wrong, there has been a lot of tragedy, too. My friends have died in war, and I have seen people that were close suffer. Peace is learning and accepting and seeing beyond what you know to exists.
Since we have no control over what life brings, peace is acquired through self- awareness. All we can do is find it within each one of us. Therefore, if you are mocking towards me, I hope you find it. You have to want it in the first place to find it.
If you keep criticizing what you don't know, then how can you learn.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Some things are too close to my heart, to answer others who clearly have no faith and have doubt and fear each day. Some people are blessed with experience and knowledge while others are like sinking ships. If you have to ask, then find out for yourself. No one can tell you anything. I would never criticize you for being so shallow and brainless.
sunny2
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38 months ago: PT That Pilgrimage that people follow to Lourdes is sacred to them.
You don't have to believe in miracles. Yes, people do throw down their crutches and many have been healed with prayer. I suggest you go there and see for yourself. For the one that is helped, others see there is hope. Not all are going to be cured in the same way and some never.
Discovery of new medicines is help or don't you see that. Even in sickness it is all about the learning experience for a higher purpose. I'm not thinking I am righteous, there is too much I have to learn. Yet, I try and some have stopped trying. Is that you? Anymore questions you think I can't answer? Try me.

sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: PT I don't want to mock you at all. Don't mock others.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Truth you are a different person just from the way you write. I hope you get over those feelings of guilt.
I love what you are doing for the child.
You are learning from the Bible in your way. Great.
I don't think anyone should ever criticize that.
Some of us don't need to lean on the Bible, Truth, but we know the basics that we follow in life and use it to guide us.
Maybe because we have envisioned other things and been lucky enough to get through without all the mayhem wearing us down, therefore, we weren't distracted. The daily problems we have to deal with and make decisions upon we can't refer back to the Bible every minute. We have to use our own judgment.
That is where each individual is counted when he stands up on his own two feet.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: Truth you are a different person just from the way you write. I hope you get over those feelings of guilt.

Sunny, his feelings of guilt are far deeper that drunken bullying (Isn't that right truthberry). Sunny, you also say he is a different person from the way he writes. Never a truer word written.

If I could get into that things head and shovel all the bull**** out of the way we would see the real beast. Sunny, take it from me, you do not want to see whats behind the mask. Read his posts, from another perspective, you will see in time.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Oh Well, time for a break and breakfast unless Cyprus tells me something annoying.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Truth They mock because they don't have the answers and will never have the glory unless they learn. They are suppose to gain wisdom, but they forget about that not thinking it is important. Wisdom carries far beyond this short life and on far more superior plain than who they are on right now.
They stopped learning. I've yet to hear one thing they do for the betterment of society. I can't look at them in any other way except how much precious time they are wasting.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Sunny
Re: Truth They mock because they don't have the answers.

Sunny I am not and never would mock you, I admire your faith and the fact that it gives you a lot of comfort, but mostly I admire you because you are a good person.

But as a good person who has faith makes you easy pickings for a sociopath. I am not insulting truthberry because I do not like him, I think he is ill. He is hiding his illness with rantings from the Bible.

Unfortunately I have met his sort many many times, don't be sucked into his hell, read his posts with an open mind and you will see what I am talking about. If he was a neighbour of mine I would alert the police to treat him as a person who needs to be monitored.

This fanatisism is not normal, the only god truthberry has is a real deep rooted belief he is it. That he has been sent down to earth to crush any sceptics. Treat him as you would a rabid dog, stay away you cannot help him.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Paper…. I wasn't speaking of you directly, as you have a right to your opinion, and he defends himself well enough. I'm speaking of the haters. Nobody fools me, but I don't think he is a bad person at all, and I don't believe it helps throwing something back in someone's face. One thing I'm not is easy pickings for any sort and that is from being around a family of Marines who taught me better than that. Don't confuse being good with being naive. When you go through any difficulty in the early stages of life, you can't communicate because a child hasn't learned to master that ability. It doesn't matter how old you are. It is almost as if you acquire a sense of being ageless. Any child coping with a life and death situation has no age. The schools or the churches I attended growing up were part of traditional family life. They didn't add anything but fortified what I already knew through experience. I found religious leaders not to always have good sense or able to communicate well with members of the congregation because they had their own questions to find answers to. If I were force fed anything in those years, it was for my own good. It was the ability to be in nature within a peaceful but powerful environment healing in the sun and fresh air.
There is a lot of truth in what you say about the different phases, but not all people are the same. It isn't that rigid. For those that need religious guidance because they have had a bad start, there has to be some kind of indoctrination, otherwise, all is lost to them.
I found the real Church to exist in living life and being accountable for ones actions. It is created for ourselves, not one that has to be physically built around us on a rock of wealth and the segregation that you talk about.
When you pray and are able to focus, it has nothing to do with anyone else but you and God. The images in my mind that affected me are profound from people like my Mother. No one else can put anything there that will match her. Unfortunately, there is a lot of hypocrisy in all faiths because they have to survive as a business.To answer your question about unfortunate people who have to beg because they are displaced, it is up to us to help. There are plenty of heroes out there doing just that.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Sunny I am confused?

When you pray and are able to focus, it has nothing to do with anyone else but you and God. The images in my mind that affected me are profound from people like my Mother.

This is a question I have asked people on this site so please do not take it the wrong way.

When you pray to your God what exactly do you focus on? Do you think of your mother when you pray?
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: I'm going to forget all this stuff. Better to talk about political people we have fun with opposing and bashing their opinions.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Truth...He doesn't get it.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: When I was a small boy, sometimes my mother would take me to church. On the wall outside the church was a whicker basket with envelopes in it. On these envelopes there was a dotted line where you had to put your family name. The people that had money used to hold the envelope high and make it seem that they where, or they could have been, having trouble putting huge amounts of money in the envelope. My mother put in sixpence, which at that time was about 25 cents.

While we were worshipping, we all sat down to listen to the sermon. The sermon that day was about how little money was being given to the church and how wicked it was not to go without food for a day to support your church.

As he was delivering the sermon he said, " Mr. Smith gave one pound, Mr. Jones gave ten shillings, and Mrs. Trainer's sixpence was by no means the least."

I do not think God is a bad person, it's the people that are bad. At this same church, I used to attend the eleven o'clock Sunday mass. Part of the church was a bar, and when the service ended, the priest used to serve behind the bar. Come 14.00 hours these men that had stood in church praying loudly, wearing expensive clothes and smelled strongly of after-shave. Would be fighting in the carpark.

So my day of worship was to go to church to be insulted, dragged to the bar where my father would buy everyone a drink when we had no money, and I mean no money, and watch my mentors beating **** out of each other at closing time. And finish the Sabbath with a ****ing good hiding, and my mother begging him to not hit her. She would not tell him to stop hitting me, because she was scared he would start on her.

That is what religion gave many families and me in my area. So do not tell me how god has changed your life, and what a wonderful person you are because you gave up the booze and stopped beating children and those weaker than you are. Hang your head in shame try to feel the 'torture' you meted out, there is no word to describe the damage you have done so I will call it torture.

Do not wave your bible and tell the world what a fantastic person you are, because while you are reveling in your own self-riecheosness, another helpless person is being beaten to a pulp. There is no forgiveness so do not think you can make up for what you did.

These religious icons would then stagger home beat their wife and children and go out later in the evening for a real drink.

The families of these worshipers would sit indoors terrified of what mood the good Christian's would be in when they got home late at night.

If you were in bed you were dragged downstairs and a ****ing devil would shout and insult you, then work themselves up to such frenzy they would beat you as if you were a full-grown man.

I saw these monsters get old, and the older they got the more religious they got. They forgot, because they had been forgiven in confession about the lives they had ruined in the name of religion.

When my father died, I didn't bother going to the funeral, as I did not like him. So when I listen to a bible punching ex drunk and bully, who has reformed his ways. He may have done, in his own head.

Don't offer pity as it is patronizing, don't offer sorrow, as all you are is trying to escape responsibility, don't offer advice, because you have not suffered enough to be able to give advice. Just go away and be quiet, and thank your god that you were not on the receiving end.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: See, now you made me feel badly.
PT I get this. I know that you had to have a terrible experience when you were a kid and that is why I talk to you. I don't speak for myself. I try to reflect something good to share with you.
As a Mother, I would have made a decision and stopped taking you to church since it was not anything that was positive. I would have taken that little money and given it to you to have a little enjoyment. People in the clergy are just like everyone else, but they can brow beat people and scare them. I met many that should not have been in that position to lead others. Many have broken away from the church but find their way. When I talk about things to you, it is really about helping you find out who you are as a person and shaking all those bad memories off. Knowing myself, I would of thought about punching those nasty guys in the head. A child needs at least one parent to have trust in, and if not a parent, a relative or friend. Surely, there was one good person in your life that you were close to and felt safe with. I've been a rock for my child. If something in any way affected my kid, I would be on someone like a bomb hit them. You never forget your own experiences, but you can trade them in for new good ones that will make you happy. That's why I say Betrayal is the worse sin. A lot of people have been let down by those closest to them but take that knowledge and help others. You can gain growth from it in a good way. It doesn't matter what you believe in or if you believe in anything at all. It is about believing in yourself and picking up the pieces. Sharing is a good thing. I think most of us are trying to do that in our own way. It is shameful that people who are as ignorant as those you mentioned hurt others, but nowadays there is more help for those that are victims. Sometimes I think people who say they found religion is a cover up for their hate and wrong doing to everything that is living. They look for sympathy. These are hard people that die that way and have learned nothing. In early years, there wasn't any place to turn, especially for woman with children who wanted to get out of a relationship but couldn't do it without help. Life is more about jumping through those hurdles and where you wind up depends on how you think and how willing you are not to be left over victims of others stupidity and inability to love. Who wants to be like them? Some of the people that you go back and forth with, are looking to make a better life. You have to give others the benefit of the doubt, too. It is all up to you at this point. Sunny
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: See, now you made me feel badly.
PT I get this. I know that you had to have a terrible experience when you were a kid and that is why I talk to you. I don't speak for myself. I try to reflect something good to share with you.
As a Mother, I would have made a decision and stopped taking you to church since it was not anything that was positive. I would have taken that little money and given it to you to have a little enjoyment. People in the clergy are just like everyone else, but they can brow beat people and scare them. I met many that should not have been in that position to lead others. Many have broken away from the church but find their way. When I talk about things to you, it is really about helping you find out who you are as a person and shaking all those bad memories off. Knowing myself, I would of thought about punching those nasty guys in the head. A child needs at least one parent to have trust in, and if not a parent, a relative or friend. Surely, there was one good person in your life that you were close to and felt safe with. I've been a rock for my child. If something in any way affected my kid, I would be on someone like a bomb hit them. You never forget your own experiences, but you can trade them in for new good ones that will make you happy. That's why I say Betrayal is the worse sin. A lot of people have been let down by those closest to them but take that knowledge and help others. You can gain growth from it in a good way. It doesn't matter what you believe in or if you believe in anything at all. It is about believing in yourself and picking up the pieces. Sharing is a good thing. I think most of us are trying to do that in our own way. It is shameful that people who are as ignorant as those you mentioned hurt others, but nowadays there is more help for those that are victims. Sometimes I think people who say they found religion is a cover up for their hate and wrong doing to everything that is living. They look for sympathy. These are hard people that die that way and have learned nothing. In early years, there wasn't any place to turn, especially for woman with children who wanted to get out of a relationship but couldn't do it without help. Life is more about jumping through those hurdles and where you wind up depends on how you think and how willing you are not to be left over victims of others stupidity and inability to love. Who wants to be like them? Some of the people that you go back and forth with, are looking to make a better life. You have to give others the benefit of the doubt, too. It is all up to you at this point. Sunny
38 months ago: PT,

We have more in common than you realize... beaten by my father... hated and raised as a minority... and bullied. I do care what you think of me, and it may be selfish to defend my self... just so you have the record strait....

I have never hit a woman. After leaving home a 15, I fought men.... many times taking on more than one at a time... once 5. I NEVER put the boots to a guy when he was down, other than once a guy beat a girl and wouldn't stand up to fight, so I gave him a couple of slight kicks to the butt to get him going... he never laid a hand on her again. I have always fought guys bigger than myself... because I felt if a guy smaller than me kicked my but I would be a looser... and if I kicked his but I would be a looser... what I didn't know is I already was a looser!

I never beat a drunk or someone who was incapacitated by drugs or other.... however I have smashed bigger guys that may not have deserved it. I have always defended and hung out with the underdogs of society.... fighting for those who could not fight.... even in the military... I have always stood up for those who were discriminated against (even those who discriminated against me for being white). I have never fought anyone because of their sexual orientation... rather defended them if there were those who would. Most of the guys I smashed were looking for trouble and they found it.... I was just looking for someone who would put me out of my misery! I haven't backed down when a guy pulled a knife on me... but I have backed down when the guy said he was going to fight me to help his brother... he had honor.... and I didn't. I am not proud of my actions, just setting things strait.

As to God giving me a new life... He has! I haven't fought anyone since the MOMENT I gave my sorry life to Jesus! As to being a scrapper... I agree with you, I still am. AND I will go toe-to-toe with anyone who makes light of the God of Creation that has redeemed me from the pit. IF you get caught in the cross-fire as an innocent bystander... I am sorry... you need to move! There is precious little time left before this world is going to come unglued... and the good-fight is not for the fearful and unbelieving.

I am just human. I used to blame God for what people did to me... not anymore... I am right with God because of the blood of Christ, not because I am honorable or a good person. IF I was raised with you you and I would have been pals... we would have probably beat the tar out of each other (as fellow Catholics)... BUT if someone ever came against you I would have knocked his block off! I was very militant as a Catholic... defender of the faith... the hardest things for me were to see the hypocritical actions and false teachings... things haven't changed much elsewhere... that is why I point people to Jesus... because when I finally admitted my fight was with God who allowed it to happen... I was able to go to the source, for understanding and forgiveness myself.

I don't pity you, as you can tell... I challenge you... to get off your sorry butt and fight like a man, and stop blaming others for your problems, they may have been caused by others, but God is able to turn it all around. I lived a bitter victim for years. NOW all that damage is useful to those I counsel on a daily basis. Let the Creator take all that piss and vinegar and use it to heal instead of fester... you are never going to escape idiots like me! Who knows... you may be surprised... your worst pain in the neck could end up being your best friend !:]

sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Both of you: Well, I guess I was right. I don't think there are any losers here, and I think you are both good people.
I grew up very protected, but my family would have been proud to call the two of you their friends. We were all tough guys. Who hasn't made mistakes? From now on forward, it is all about making the right choices knowing you are very, very important and have value. Give it a shot.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
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Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Below are two verses from Milton, Paradise Lost, Book 2, shows there is pride in defeat.

In the darkness of my younger days, sunny days did not exsist because of the fear of the inevetable. It may not happen today but it will tomorrow. That was written in stone, nothing could change the predicted outcome, nothing could change my fear of being hated and hurt. When you have nothing, no money, no friends, no hope, no soul, no future the smallest thread of any sort of hope is something you ignore as you know it will be taken away or ruined.

So I set myself aside and tried to live my life where emotions did not exist. The lovely stories in the Bible were for others, and I envied, envy, people that have peace. I found a friend in drink, it was a good true friend, it took fear away, it took care away, it took the resposibility of having to love someone away. While I was drunk I was invinsible. Ex drunks that extol the evils of drink, in my case, have got it wrong, being drunk was the only way I could survive.

Being drunk was something I had longed for all my life, it got me through stages of life that I could not cope with, it gave me the strength to carry on, it made me laugh at my percieved misfortune. It could be from a middle of a field covered in snow or frost, if I was drunk I was happy.

Many people underestimate how helpful drink can be when there is nothing else. When drunk I could face my problems, it was like an anesthetic it made life bearable. Spending years in a haze was the best time I ever had. If you can understand the power of real fear you will understand how important drink can be. Even these days, every six months or so, there are no real time limits, I get ****faced. Why? I do not know. I stand in the queue, to buy as much drink as I can carry, go home, shut myself in a room, and emerge as sick as a pig a week later.

Now I do not suggest that anyone takes to the bottle because it is good. It helped me. It made my lonely years bearable. So back to Milton;

What though the field be lost? [ 105 ]
All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?

The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Truth.
Maybe I was a bit hard on you, and for that I am sorry. The warning at the start of the post, was real, I was going to go down a road that was going to make me angry. You ignored the warning.

As you said we are very much alike, I agree, and that we could have been good friends. I agree with that.

If the offer of friendship is still open I would gladly except.


sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Paper....I don't drink, and I don't curse. I am faithful and kind to good people.
Nothing changed who I am because of others stupidity.
I went through Hell and struggled at one point, and I did it alone. Nobody is excluded from this. We all go through some pretty bad things at one time or another, and we fight back. You have choices now, Paper.
No excuse for not turning it around. You have to make an effort.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re :I went through Hell and struggled at one point, and I did it alone.

You are a person with courage. My courage comes with anger.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Probably the anger, Paper, was your life boat which made you survive.
38 months ago: Paper Tiger,

I knew it! We could have a good fight and come out pals! Just let me wipe the blood from my split lip... and shake hands...
I appreciate you, it's good to know you better.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: knew it! We could have a good fight and come out pals! Just let me wipe the blood from my split lip... and shake hands...
I appreciate you, it's good to know you better.

Likewise Truth, in future I will try to control my feelings.
38 months ago: Paper Tiger,

...and I will try to control my ignorance !:]
sunny2
sunny2
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sunny2
38 months ago: : PT ...This is something a clergyman said that just was being introduced to the congregation, and it is actually funny.
He stood up in front of everyone for the first time and said the following:
All of you here look at you, you will never have a car phone because you don't have anything. That was so dumb and idiotic what was he thinking. He didn't make a very good impression. He used his own experiences which couldn't have been much and made everyone the same as himself. He didn't know any better and that goes for most. A few years later everyone and his brother and child had a cell phone.
Another priest said on his first introduction to the people, how bad we all were and we were all going to hell and preached fire and brimstone. He was rude, and I thought a jerk. So, you see. It boils down to people. I can take them or leave most of them. Most of them I choose to leave. The real story and history is made between yourself and God. Each of us in our own time receives that wisdom, but you have to take that opportunity. I rather choose him to get me through. There are also a lot of good people out there that are smart and really want to help. They are well versed on how people become innocent victims of others.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: So, you see. It boils down to people. I can take them or leave most of them.

Sunny, sometimes you do not have the choice.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Brilliant. I appreciate the excerpt from Paradise Lost It was nice to read this morning.– The fall of Satan and the rise of man and Adam and Eve's disobedience in Paradise. I have to think about the verses today. It was one of my favorite books.

I'll share this with you which is my favorite quote by Herman Melville

"All deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea, while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore"

I also know you don't have many choices when you are child living someone else's twisted nightmare only to become their punching bag. They want total control but sooner or later they fall flat on their faces, and you rise up.
Sometimes the wisest of people are put in shackles by others who are ignorant, fearful and will use everyone around them for their own selfish weaknesses.. Children suffer enormously from the people that are suppose to be protecting them, and they start living in their own safe place and that is where "thinking" comes in to help them endure this brutality because there is freedom in it... Damage is done, of course, but even though you have scars, you are given that opportunity to be all you can be. It was never taken from you as it is still there. I can see it, but the alcoholism is an obstruction to you getting to where you want to be and who you really are. . . That is your choice at this point to turn it around. Scars can be worn as a badge of courage. Take your mind off of yourself and take what you know and all that wealth of knowledge and experience you gained and help someone else. It will help you get back on track and regain everything you lost along the way. Just must find a way to find beauty again in life. I see it in the peace of nature when I travel. You deserve the best, and you will find yourself HOME in the place you truly belong . All is not lost to you. Others are lost because they are just plain bad, but I don't see that here . I'm writing this because I see worth here. Just try a little harder.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: "All deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea, while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore"

Thanks for sharing that sunny, and thank you for all the effort you put in to understand the ununderstandable. Your a good friend.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
38 months ago: Friends are better than enemies. One you can't have too many of, the other you don't want any of.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: You are a very wise man Huey.
It is a pleasure to have shared a post with you.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Paper....thank you so much for those kind words. Actually made me teary eyed.
Of course, and people will stand by you. You always were a friend to me right from the beginning no doubt about that. Sunny
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: PT Don't worry about it too much. We can either be taken over by anger or we can replace it with something positive.
Talking about it can make is subside quite a bit. I don't think you ever really get over it completely, but it can be replaced with living life to the fullest.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Paper what are you saying today?
Sunny
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Re: Paper what are you saying today?
Sunny

Sunny, today I am thinking it has been a delight to talk to you, Truth and the super intelligent people that write for rantrave.

So I would like to say thank you all for being so kind.
38 months ago: PT,

It's been great learning from you, yet through it all, this has me really looking forward to the next joust.... if you're game? !:]
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Paper It is my pleasure. Honestly.
People like yourself keep me on this because I enjoy talking to you. I would have been long gone from this. We have that right to question everything, Paper. Today I was thinking you made my day.
I saw the kindness in you right off. Truth is right. Looking forward to the next round.
sunny2
sunny2
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sunny2
38 months ago: Paper I will find time to read Paradise Lost again this summer.
If you have any other good suggestions, I'm open to it.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny.
Try The Inferno.
Dante passes through the gate of Hell, which bears an inscription, the ninth (and final) line of which is the famous phrase "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", or "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"[4]

Before entering Hell completely, Dante and his guide see the Uncommitted, souls of people who in life did nothing, neither for good nor evil (among these Dante recognizes either Pope Celestine V or Pontius Pilate; the text is ambiguous). Mixed with them are outcasts who took no side in the Rebellion of Angels. These souls are neither in Hell nor out of it, but reside on the shores of the Acheron, their punishment to eternally pursue a banner (i.e. self interest) while pursued by wasps and hornets that continually sting them while maggots and other such insects drink their blood and tears. This symbolizes the sting of their conscience and the repugnance of sin. As with the Purgatorio and Paradiso, the Inferno has a structure of 9+1=10, with this "vestibule" different in nature from the nine circles of Hell, and separated from them by the Acheron.

After passing through the "vestibule," Dante and Virgil reach the ferry that will take them across the river Acheron and to Hell proper. The ferry is piloted by Charon, who does not want to let Dante enter, for he is a living being. Virgil forces Charon to take him by means of another famous line Vuolsi così colà ove si puote, which translates to "So it is wanted there where the power lies," referring to the fact that Dante is on his journey on divine grounds. The wailing and blasphemy of the damned souls entering Charon's boat are a contrast to the joyful singing of the blessed souls arriving by ferry in the Purgatorio. However, the actual passage across the Acheron is undescribed since Dante faints and does not wake up until he is on the other side.

Virgil then guides Dante through the nine circles of Hell. The circles are concentric, representing a gradual increase in wickedness, and culminating at the centre of the earth, where Satan is held in bondage. Each circle's sinners are punished in a fashion fitting their crimes: each sinner is afflicted for all of eternity by the chief sin he committed. People who sinned but prayed for forgiveness before their deaths are found not in Hell but in Purgatory, where they labour to be free of their sins. Those in Hell are people who tried to justify their sins and are unrepentant.

Allegorically, the Inferno represents the Christian soul seeing sin for what it really is, and the three beasts represent three types of sin: the self-indulgent, the violent, and the malicious.[5] These three types of sin also provide the three main divisions of Dante's Hell: Upper Hell (the first 5 Circles) for the self-indulgent sins; Circles 6 and 7 for the violent sins; and Circles 8 and 9 for the malicious sins.
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Thank you Paper for taking the time. You are very generous. These were my Brother's favorite books. You reminded me that I miss talking to him about them. I love these books. I've been away from them with a busy with life. This is a good break for me to take the time to catch up.
"Before entering Hell completely, Dante and his guide see the Uncommitted, souls of people who in life did nothing, neither for good nor evil." That says quite a bit about life to me. I could never live my life that way.
My daughter had a wonderful mentor in NYC from England a few years back who was all involved in literature and the arts. He was an actor and a scholar who performed with some of the great English actors, such as Vivien Leigh and Sir Laurence Oliviere. He loved his students, and if they drifted away he was right there to inspire them. Believe me, you would get a phone call from him. He quoted beautifully and his speech was eloquent. This brings me back to remembering the finer things in life.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny here is a couple to read.

Lost Love.
Across the fields of golden corn there are no subtle waves,
I stand and look, it takes me back to clean bright golden days,
I remember standing here with you, smiling at my side,
This was many, many years ago, your smile was broad and wide,
Often I stand in our place, seeing what we once both saw,
My eyes well up with warm tears like they always have before,
And through my tears I see you, looking across our favorite place,
So young, so pretty, so full of life, your smile made my heart race,
I have got by with my sadness, but It's been so very long,
You visit my dreams most every night, in the morning you are gone,
And so starts another day of sadness and a heavy aching heart,
The words I need do not exist, it hurts to be apart,
So, I get on with my life, play the part of a very average man,
But deep inside,I hope we will be one again, I really hope we can.


Memory Lane
A lost love.
It seems its always spring time when I walk down memory lane,
I think of holding hands with you as we stroll down there again,
The sun is shining the flowers budding along the pathways of the past,
Your lovely mind, Your smiling face, your golden hair, are my memories that will last,
No clouds dare to mar the sun's watery glow, which melts into skies of blue,
No shadows dare to mask the sun when I'm walking there with you,
From those golden times I remember happiness and never any tears,
Those were the most beautiful days of my life, the sweetest of my years,
For a short while I forget my loneliness, the dreadful loss, the hurting and the pain,
It's always spring, and happiness, when I hold hands with you, down old memory lane.


Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Death of a king

A warm fire.
I am smashed, I am down, on this bloody battlefield, My horse is dead, I am gravely wounded, but I will never yield, Warriors step on me, and over me fighting, thrashing all around, My body, my armor, is heavy, cold pressing me to the ground. The armies regroup and line up facing each other in ragged rows, A horn blasts out, across the fields and off the body fetcher's go, A hand goes under my armpit and I jerk in suprise, I'm being dragged back to my men under leaden gray skies. The fetchers drag me past the front row to rest upon a tree, A few of my bravest knights, and friends, come to comfort me, My silver colored armor is dented and battered in the fight, I'm injured very seriously I will not last the night. And so to comfort me in my last and fading good-byes, A fire is lit, I feel its warmth, I'm happy, and I finally close my eyes.
Anon

A Knights Last Day
An old knight prepares to die.

Come close, and hand me my whetted broad sword,
Now step back, while I make peace with my Lord,
And as I am kneeling and praying in this field,
Take some leather rags, rub hard, and clean my silver shield.
Bring me my helmet and place it upon my head,
We have talked of what you must do when I am dead,
So shut down the visor and lock out the light,
This my good friend will be my last fight.
I have been on this earth for forty long years,
Fighting wrongs, fighting foes hearing foot soldiers cheers,
Although I am strong, I have skills for battles and war,
I am old, I am slow, and I've never been defeated before.
Make sure when I advance the sun is on my back,
So I can feel the suns heat just before the attack,
It will warm my armour so that when I fall,
I will not be shivering when I hear my Lord call.
So go, go now, and may your life be all-good,
I would ride at your side, protect you if I could,
But the whole of my life has been about this day,
And I will die with honor and pride, as this is my way.

Anon
sunny2
sunny2
38 months ago: Paper...."And I will die with honor and pride, as this is my way."
That's what it is all about. I don't know why so many waste their lives not knowing what is important.
The first poem was near to one of my favorites in The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám. Beautiful heartwarming piece.
I see the literary works that you sent as living things which give the Poet a gift of immortality.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny.
I wrote those poems.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Paper these are beautiful.
I just came in here to read the poems again, and I must have missed that you said you wrote them.
Thank you so much. Beautiful, Beautiful, Beautiful!
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
38 months ago: Hi Sunny, here is a poem with a different subject.

I do not tell too many people that I dabble with poetry. Below is a site that I write for.

Country Tales.

Beauty in Poverty.

Along a dark and dirty alley under anvil leaden skies,

Flowers on a window sill would come as a suprise,

And even if the grubby walls had not been blitzed and scarred,

Beauty does not last too long when life is grim and hard,

But in this misery, a splash of gold behind some grimy glass,

An oasis of loveliness, in squaller, if any chanced to pass,

To conjure up this strange scene beneath the darkened skies,

To bring daffodils into poverty cheers one walking by,

Someone in that ugly house that has caught the suns pale gleam,

Someone in that gloomy room had dared to dream a dream,

Someone wiser than they knew, had done a lovely thing,

And brought into that ruined street the magic of the Spring.

http://www.triond.com/users/Terry+Traino...

sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Paper... I love your poem.
I'm happy you dabble in poetry. .
From your poem the message is: No one can shut happiness away in darkness when they dream...It's colors will always shine through and glow with amazing light. That's the kind of happiness I was speaking about to Truth. That inner happiness that God gives. We don't have to acquire a lot of "stuff" or fame or power or fortune. All we have to be is ourselves to be the happiest.
Please write more. I don't know how I missed that you write. Sunny
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: It's funny I should read this today. A couple of days ago my daughter and I were admiring the daffodils growing along a highly trafficked highway in the mist of all this fast paced life, those little flowers never changed. They are so perfect in symmetry and brightness to remind us that happiness, beauty, and peace exists in spite that sometimes it isn't noticed among all the things that distract us. It reminds me of the sun flowers that bow their heads to the sun and that we have to humble ourselves to all of the simple things out there.
A perfect bit of sunshine. I loss my Dad a few years back and today is Father's Day, so I kind of miss him. Your poem made my day. I don't know if you celebrate Father's Day in England, but I will wish you one anyway from America to you. Thank you PT. Sunny
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
37 months ago: What a lovely person you are. Thanks for taking a look at my poems, and thanks for your feed back. Yes we do celibrate Fathers Day in England.

sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Thank you for the compliment, PT.
37 months ago: Hiya PT,
I hear there is a forum starting soon on www.inhealth.info
Apparantly there are a few companies looking to sponsor it so it sounds like it is going to be somewhere for freedom of speech.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
37 months ago: Sounds interesting.
37 months ago: I have looked into it abit and it looks like its going to be some kind of health forum where people can post things about all kinds of health related issues from patients about conditions to staff that do or have worked in the industry.
Its in the process of being made and should be there in a week.
It should be good fun and it is trying to figure out how to put adsense on it at the moment.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
37 months ago: I cannot wait. Thanks English
37 months ago: Its a registered business that owns a few domains so i can have any content i want on them as i own them.
I sold the stationery business last week to fund my plans,Just need to find someone that knows alot about Search Engine Optimization i think cypress knows alot but i havent seen him on here lately.
If you see him ask him if he will take a look at the keywords for it.
cheers i will speak to you later in the week
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: English....I hope you don't mind me replying but that it really sounds good.
37 months ago: Hi Sunny thanks for the comment.
I dont mind anyone leaving replies for me good or bad lol.
I personally think alot of what goes on in the healthcare industry gets swept under the carpet and if i can start a website that makes things a little more open and gets people talking about some of the issues then i sure as hell will.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Thanks English.
I've been stuyding since November of last year medical terms and pharmacology and it goes on and on. It is a unique language in itself. After a while I becomes second nature. I enjoy it and find it interesting. Things I never really paid attention to, I have to know. This site would be helpful for me, too. As long as I read on health issues, I can keep up with the current news.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
37 months ago: Hi Sunny Hi English.

Knowledge is power, and while the health industry uses its own "slang" that it deliberatly creates to make a barrier. By keeping their jobspeak as a barrier they will carry on believing they are god like. It's an industry that envolopes every thing bad and corrupt in the workplace.

When you give it a bit of thought, these blessed angels that work for health care are doing nothing special. As medico's now specialise there is so little to learn. Take for example a doctor that specialises in feet. There is only so much you need to know about a foot, anybody could learn all a bout a foot in a couple of weeks. These medics know this and so to protect their brittle ego's they create a culture of Me.

A car mmachanic needs to know more than a specialist as that job is not broken down into many small processes, making each process a no brainer. What these health care leeches should do is do what is expected of them and fall in with the rest of society. Because someone can boil an egg properly does not give them the right to think everybody is inferior to them.
sunny2
sunny2
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sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Hi Paper...It is funny that you should mention this because I was thinking about it yesterday when English brought this up.
To keep up with the economy, I had to learn a new career. I'm studying anatomy and how medicines work in the body. Medical language is complicated to learn with the chemical names and generic names, but it is not impossible. These sky rocketing prices in health care don't warrant the low standards of care doctors are giving on a whole. I find many doctors to be useless and unresponsive to patients with a care less attitude. For instance, your example was the anatomy of the foot. I studied the anatomy of the foot back a few months ago in one of my modules, and I learned about the different bones, muscles, and nerves.. I'm far from an expert at this point, but I understand it. I really don't get what the big deal is with these doctors. They are constantly referring to manuals and asking other doctors their opinions, and they can't fall behind. They have to keep their knowledge current. They make so many mistakes, and we are the ones suffering for it. We need them, and they know it. I had a doctor's appointment a few years back, and the doctor couldn't understand why I wasn't impressed by him. He related that to me. He said he didn't understand why I didn't have respect for him because "he was a doctor" because I questioned the care and treatment. I'm thinking what is he talking about, respect? They go to school just like everyone else, and they read from books and half of them don't understand or aren't serious while in school. They are or were college students. Who are they? They are like everyone else with a trade only they get away with their mistakes and don't even care if a patient dies or walks away in worse condition. I've seen more bad than good physicians. I can't remember a good one. They aren't far from being lawyers. You have to be super rich to get good care. Not fair.
37 months ago: Hi Sunny,
I am hoping the site will be ready in a week or two maximum.
There are some great stories to tell in the sector of health and as it effects everyone i think everyone can have an imput and improve things.
If someone say mrs smith has a bad experience at a hospital she should tell us about it and maybe we can approach that hospital and find out why.
It would help the hospital in the long run.
Now i know it will not be possible to approach every hospital but if people publish these things they will get noticed in the end.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: English that is a good idea. I have some whoppers that I could talk about.
The staff can be big problems in health care facilities.
37 months ago: Hi Sunny,
I think it should be quite good as i am sure there are horror stories everywhere about the health industry.
If i can highlight one or two problems to a hospital and then something happens about it hey that would be fantastic.
If i make 1 person feel better by getting everything off there chest then it will be great.
In England we have health trusts and i have approached 2 so far and they seem very interested as with all the reforms going on at the moment the health system needs to be a bit more transparent all over.
I am approaching various health care companies at the moment regarding advertising on it and a couple of people seem really positive about the plans but want to see the real thing.
I cant wait its all so exciting.
sunny2
sunny2
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sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: English....I think it is a great idea.
Hospitals, nursing homes, health care facilities, out patient care should be under scrutiny. These institutions tend to treat a person at a risk of being worse when they leave their facility and that information should be out there and made known.
One thing that gets me is when a survey is given to a patient to fill out regarding the treatment that was administered; the caregiver stands over you while it is being filled out. Usually, they take it from your hand and are annoyed, and it is about them. Most people don't want to make waves because they need the continued care so they won't be truthful.
Sunny
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: I believe most of it is intimidation because the ball is in their court.
37 months ago: they think the ball is in there court but there are some people that are not afraid to stand upto these people and will write about what they want to.
If people have nothing to hide then it does not matter what is written about them its only the ones who need to hide things that will be worried.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: Very well said.
I've seen so much intimidation from hospitals and their staff members, including the doctors who get away with it because people are at their mercy. Meanwhile at the end of considerable dilly dallying because they don't have answers people don't get the proper care and wind up with bearing the expense of delayed time and walking away with more problems.

37 months ago: Some of the things you read in the uk about the care people recieve in hospitals is sometimes heartbraking.
Thats why people need to get everything out in the open and improve things.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: English...I thought it was only over here that the medical industry was so bad.
My Mother was very ill and the nurse was heartless. I could of torn her hair out. I think you are opening up a can of worms but "good for you." It is about time.
Some of the others should comment on this. It is important.
sunny2
sunny2
37 months ago: I found the medical industry not very good to Seniors.
They don't care at all when they are sick.
The doctors string them along and never give them proper care and what they deserve to have.
37 months ago: I have seen untrained people dealing with seriously ill people + I am. Going to expose it.
Secrios
Secrios
England
20 months ago: It's certainly better than swapping the bottle for religion! XD
But seriously AA doesn't need a higher power, they need self control.

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