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Rant

Solutions Pt.1 Insurrection or Democracy?

Posted 18 months ago|60 comments|1,478 views
Armed Insurrection or the Ballot Box?
Written by
Altruist
Eugene, OR
Now that my Father is in his sunset years he likes to watch nothing but Westerns. Westerns are always pretty simplistic and easy to understand. Justice is often found when the guy in the white hat shoots the bad guy in the black hat. The Tea Party with its arm chair quarterback critiques and simplistic solutions sound attractive. Unfortunately as H. L. Mencken said, "For every complex problem there is a-solution-that is simple neat and wrong".

Sometimes like in High Noon, the entire town abandons Gary Cooper and he is left all alone to defend justice. We have a new sheriff in town and he has lots of problems to solve and it would be nice if all the townspeople would pull together to help him, but most of the time it seems like half the country is working for the bad guys.

There were often "Lynching Parties" when the loudmouths in town stirred up the town drunks and decided to take the law in their own hands. The good guy would always defend the rule of law. Sometimes the mob would catch an actual horse thief but more often than not they hung an innocent person. Whenever mob rule took over they were wrong because they broke the law. It is always better to leave the law to the courts, to find out who the real bad guys are.

When our founding fathers formed this nation they tried to eliminate the need for mob rule by putting in place the means to bring about meaningful change. The Law came to town if you will.

In 2008 the people used their constitutionally mandated rights and voted for change. The losers of that election never got behind the new sheriff. These poor losers are the ones that are still resisting any change, and now they are calling for his lynching.

Some members of the Tea Party are calling for "Second Amendment Remedies" if they
lose again at the ballot box. The leaders are the loudmouths that are inciting the excitable and impressionable to abandon law and return to mob rule.

Over time the leaders of this great nation could see the endless bloody coups and military takeovers that occurred all over the rest of the world. We had our own bloody civil war and it was so horrendous that our leaders vowed to never allow that to happen again. They insured that would not happen here by having civilian control of the military and by having the military take an oath to support the Commander in Chief. But the major way that our founders insured that the nation would not be torn apart is by allowing change to happen at the ballot box.

In almost every election the losers vow to work with the winners and cooperate for the good of the country. After this past election that did not happen. The Republicans acted like spoiled schoolboys who if they lost, would take their ball and go home. They decided that politics was war, and that if they lost on the battlefield that they would continue a guerilla war. Never before at least in my memory has the opposition been so adversarial.

Their very effective propaganda machine which took the country to an unnecessary and illegal war, shifted to attack our president and the Democratic party. Instead of compromising and helping solve the countries problems, the Republicans decided that they would do everything they could to make Obama and the nation fail. They abused little known procedural rules to force a supermajority vote to get anything done, and did everything they could to bring our country to a stop. If they couldn't have things their way they would make it impossible for anyone else to play the game.

When the right wing thinks of change they think of armed insurrection because they own all of the guns. When you own a hammer every problem looks like a nail. All of these wannabe weekend warriors have bought a dozen weapons and tons of ammunition and it is just sitting there doing nothing. They like to get dressed in Camo and play soldier on the weekend to show off their nifty weapons, and a 50 caliber isn't too good for rabbits. but wouldn't it be fun to go out and shoot some liberals or gays or minorities?

Of course most of the volunteer army and the rest of the military is conservative and they also think that force is the answer to many of the world's problems. But the difference is these soldiers have seen the real horror of a real shooting war and would never want that to happen at home. Besides they have all sworn allegiance to their Commander in Chief.

When the left thinks of change they think of collective bargaining and using the non violent protests of the majority of the people, to overcome the totalitarian authoritarianism of the minority.

The right has the American revolution as inspiration but unfortunately there are thousands of other examples where violent revolution resulted in more violence, genocide, and oppression. Few revolutions result in Democracies. The strong men who lead the revolution generally turn into dictators. What makes the United States different than hundreds of other nations that suffer one revolution after another, is the Constitution. The Constitution protects the rights of the minority and provides for a mechanism for change without violence.

When the left thinks of change they also have historical success stories they can look to for inspiration. They have Gandhi who brought about the end of British colonialism in India and Pakistan through non violence. They have the example of Mandela who ended Apartheid and the formation of Africa through non violence, they have the example of Lech Walesa and the freedom of Poland through non violence, they have the example of Mother Jones and the suffragettes that allowed women equality through non violence, there is the example of Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, and many others who won civil rights victories and ended segregation through non violence.

Why is it that the left relies on the majority: Democracy, Majority Rule, Non Violence, and Collective bargaining to make life better for all, but the Right relies on the use of force by the minority to make life worse for the majority so a few can live in luxury?

There is no possible way that a bunch of weekend warriors can take on the most powerful military in the world, no matter how many weapons they acquire. That is just plain crazy talk, and it should not be encouraged or tolerated. The most they can hope to do is blow some people up, as Timothy McVeigh and his co conspirators did in Oklahoma City.

Let me be clear. This is not just some western on TV where conflicts are settled with a gun fight at high noon. If Americans take up arms with the intent of overthrowing the government, they are not patriots, they are not modern revolutionaries. They are terrorists, and they will be treated as terrorists.

A recent Washington Post report indicated that there are 1,271 government entities and 1,931 private companies engaged in intelligence-gathering work. If you are hoarding weapons and advocating the overthrow of the government, how many of them do you think are reading your posts and listening to your phone right now?

Most of the members of the Tea Party are rational and good people but some on the extreme right are just plain crazy and only need a little encouragement to harm others. Those who encourage "Second Amendment Remedies" are legitimizing the real right wing Whackoes, and they are enabling unstable armed and dangerous elements to take the law in their own hands and blow up government buildings and harm innocent civilians. They are encouraging domestic terrorism and the return to mob rule.

I applaud the Tea party for energizing people who were unwilling to participate in the political process before. If they are successful and they do "Take their Country Back" , what happens then? Do they have any solutions to the nation's many problems?

This is the first in a series exploring solutions. The first step is to realize that in this country, the majority rules.
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COMMENTS
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
18 months ago: When will you stop your lies?

No one is calling for war, except you.

No one is calling for insurrection, except you.

You are making claims that the people want to get rid of Federal laws, that violate the constitution as being a bad thing.

The American people want State's sovereignty and you commie liberals are trying to make us out to be bad guys.

Because you oppose the constitution, does not mean every one has to.

No amount of lies, will keep true Americans from wanting to be Republics, as was granted as a right under the Constitution.

So, cry and scream all you want, the majority are against you.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

Find the clue of who I am in this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7K6P7hl...#!


Colorado
Colorado
Westcliffe, CO
18 months ago: Very nice and thought provoking post.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: Thanks Colorado.

And thank you Ron. I am always delighted when people resort to name calling and accusing me of lying because that indicates that my arguments are effective and they can't refute the arguments with actual facts.

Sharron Angle who just won the Republican Primary is the one calling for Second Amendment Remedies. Knowing that she is an extreme right wing nut job, the majority of the Republicans endorsed her rants with their votes.

Now that people are beginning to see just how extreme the Tea Party is, they are turning against them. In a recent poll the percentage of Americans holding an unfavorable view of the movement jumped by 11 points to 50%.

The Majority are against us?
18 months ago: "This is the first in a series exploring solutions. The first step is to realize that in this country, the majority rules."

Altruist, your "first step" was a misstep. While it may be true that the majority rules a democracy, we in the USA live in a republic. As such, it is the Constitution that rules--both the majority and the minority.

"A recent Washington Post report indicated that there are 1,271 government entities and 1,931 private companies engaged in intelligence-gathering work. If you are hoarding weapons and advocating the overthrow of the government, how many of them do you think are reading your posts and listening to your phone right now?"

Isn't this a tacit admission that we are rapidly degenerating into a police state? Wouldn't resistance to such a development be an act of patriotism?

"There is no possible way that a bunch of weekend warriors can take on the most powerful military in the world, no matter how many weapons they acquire."

This is a gratuitous assertion. It looks very much as if the Taliban will triumph in Afghanistan against the US-led coalition forces, just as they successfully drove out the Red Army earlier. Also, explain how the Viet Cong--a rag-tag outfit from a third-world country--beat both the French and the US? Who says it can't be done?

Will the "most powerful military in the world" attack US cities to quell a domestic insurgency? Will they nuke Nashville if "weekend warriors" there buy one too many .50 caliber rifles? Wouldn't that result in "blow[ing] up government buildings and harm[ing] innocent civilians?"

Your arguments are inane, ineffective and easily refuted.


18 months ago: Forget the fact that America is a Republic...

..."This is the first in a series exploring solutions. The first step is to realize that in this country, the majority rules."...

Meaning "Democracy" or "Mob Rule"?

For those that speak well of their hopes of the Constitution you all are so blind when it comes to the Constitution.
We Are Everywhe
We Are Everywhe
Antarctica
18 months ago: This clueless obamazombie ought to realize, that a lot of us "wannabes" are actually highly trained military veterans who take our oath to uphold and defend our Constitution against ALL enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC very, very, seriously.

Further, we as military personnel have NEVER sworn allegiance to ANY President. And we sure as hell aren't starting with this one now. I am an Oath Keeper and a III per. If the fecal matter does hit the fan in the future, there are many like me who WILL stand on the side of liberty. Woe unto those who think different. WE ARE EVERYWHERE!!

MM III
Bookkie
Bookkie
Shafter, CA
18 months ago: First of all Sharon Angle was not proposing that we use Second Amendment remedies. If you would really care to read her comments, she was merely pointing out how a good portion of the population now feels. Of the people I talk to I would estimate that between 20-30% of the people are thinking that Second Amendment remedies may be the only way out of this mess. To this end the nation is arming.

Second the Tea parties slogan says it all 'Two parties – Same results'. Does not matter who we elect, both parties are trashing the constitution. The Constitution is written in clear language that anyone can understand. We agree to live in peace under the Constitution. If it needs changing there are means to do so through the amendment process. We however do not agree to live under a 'Living Constitution' that changes from day to day based upon the agenda of some legislator or activist judge. It's the same as if the bank decided to increase your house payment by $200 per month because they needed extra money.

Third we do not live in a Democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic. Under this form of government we delegate certain powers to the government so that other freedoms may be preserved. What we do not delegate the government does not have the power to do. The real abuses by our government started with the new deal. They have miss-used their taxing, general welfare and commence clauses to the point that they now control most aspects of our lives. A prime example is the amount of water a toilet can use to flush it with. What in the world does that have to do with the regulation of interstate commerce? But the manufacturers are now required to law to not use over a certain amount of water for their products to flush. I am reminded of this every day when I have to use the plunger. The people calling for a living constitution are the ones forcing the second amendment issues. If they want change and you claim you are the majority, then have them propose a constitutional amendment and lets bring it out to the people for an honest debate. But don't lie and pervert the constitution to get what you want.

One of the things that is really highlighting to the general public of the abuses by activist judges has been the rulings in both Heller and McDonald. Especially the rant by Justice Stevens in his dissenting opinion in McDonald. Very little in the way of law and a whole bunch of touchy feely personal opinion.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
18 months ago: Referring to the Armed Forces, Altruist wrote "Besides they have all sworn allegiance to their Commander in Chief."

Actually, that statement is factually incorrect (thank God!). Armed forces members do NOT swear allegiance to the CinC. Their allegiance is to the CONSTITUTION, not a man. And that is a good thing. Should the CinC's orders conflict with the Constitution that oath all service members take would COMPEL those members to disobey the orders. All members of the Armed forces - officer and enlisted - are frequently reminded that they do NOT have to obey an unlawful order. Further they are taught that should they obey an unlawful order and in the course of that obedience commit a crime, they will be prosecuted for whatever offense they committed.

There are many, MANY times as many gun owners than there total troops in the Armed Forces. When you factor in the fact that only a small fraction of troops in the armed forces actually carry arms and conduct offensive operations, the number of armed "insurgents" the troops would face would be many times their own numbers.

You referred to the "weekend warriors" who might " take on the most powerful military in the world". Except you didn't think of all the veterans of both the sandbox (Iraq) and rockpile (Afghanistan) who have separated. These are former members of that "most powerful military in the world" and are just as well trained as the ones still serving. The numbers include Officers, NCOs and regular enlisteds. All of these would be well aware of the tactics and doctrine of the troops they would be facing.

To the above mix you must factor in an unknown number of "Oath Keepers" - active duty and retired Armed Forces members and active and retired Law Enforcement Officers who have taken the pledge NOT to obey 10 horrendous orders. If even a good fraction of those actually honor their oath it will be very bad for the regular troops who fail to honor their oath to the constitution.

Finally, any rebels will be operating under the Rules of Engagement set forth by President Clinton when he sent our troops into Kosovo. Local, state and national Government officials along with media leaders and others will be directly in the crosshairs. I would not give a wooden nickel for Keith Olberman's life after hostitilities commence.

Altruist prattled endlessly about the constitution and the rule of law and yet the party in power appears not to give a fig for either the constitution OR the rule of law. In the case of the former, I wold remind you of the very revealing response by Speaker Pelosi who when asked about where the constitution gave her the authority to pass the healthcare bill replied "Are you serious?". Regarding the administration's dedication to the rule of law, I would remind you of the way GM's creditors were paid off. Instead of being at the head of the line, secured creditors were sent to the rear behind UNsecured creditors such as the UAW.

I would conclude my remarks with the sage words of Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson wrote that Governments are instituted among Men to secure the inalienable rights with they are endowed by Creator God. Further that those governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.

On the justification for armed insurrection, Jefferson wrote:
[W]henever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are a
18 months ago: Correct.
18 months ago: "Besides they have all sworn allegiance to their Commander in Chief."

Sorry. Not so much.

First and foremost, I swore to "...support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

The part about obeying the President is contingint on his orders being lawful and constitutional. Hence the following at the end of the oath, "...according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
Content Removed by Huey Newton
18 months ago: seconds ago: Altruist,

I hear where you are coming from.

It's pretty obvious to me too even if I do have my trepidations.

Nice post. Very well done.

HN
18 months ago: Sorry, but your premise and conclusions are completely at odds with reality. You build up the straw man of the insane right-wing terrorist who will kill innocents at the merest suggestion of violence from his enablers, comparing anyone who will threaten 'insurrection' to McVeigh. You also make the mistake of claiming that the Civil War legitimized using force to keep these United States together. What the Civil War has taught us is that a sitting president (Lincoln) could trample the Constitution and wage war on his own countrymen who legally and constitutionally demanded to secede. The Constitution plainly spells out the process for secession, and when some Southern states followed The Law to secede, they were labeled rebels and put down by the federal government. Lincoln further suspended other civil rights in doing so, such as habeas corpus. This has nothing to do with slavery or racism - what Lincoln did was break the law. Jumping back to present day, you claim (again, from some mysterious evidence you've yet to show) that Tea Party 'members' are racists and bigots, while the reality is quite different. Mother Theresa and others you refer to would understand and agree with the Tea Party far more readily than you are willing to admit, because unlike the left, the conservative (true conservative) movement is true to its classical liberal roots - freedom of the individual. Tell that to the person who will soon be forced to purchase a health insurance policy, who will be forced to fill out 1099's for all small transaction with any other entity outside of W2 wages, who will be prosecuted for 'hate crimes' for uttering anything against the muslim radicals who are far more of a threat than the grandma holding a Tea Party sign at the rallies. Gandhi would see the wisdom in the Tea Party as well. You are simply deluded if you think that the left as it is today is trying to help these United States. The left is actively destroying this great country by bankrupting it with dubious results to show for wasting trillions. Finally, you are simply misguided as to your knowledge of the military: as many have already called you out for your ignorance, the US Military members do NOT pledge allegiance to the President. God help us all were that to become law! All totalitarian countries require first that the military suborn leadership to the man, not the law, that defines the land. Nazi Germany, Stalin's USSR, Mao's China, Mussolini's Italy, and all other despots ALL must have obedience of the armed men, and they all make sure that only the military is armed - that's really where it starts. That is why the Founding Fathers gave us the 2nd Amendment - to make sure this NEVER happened here! Their goal was to have an armed populace that will comprise a militia that would always outnumber the standing army. While our military has up to a half-million men at arms, the militia of this nation is made up of about 100 million men and women. Even if we discount the will to defend the Constitution in 99% (!) of this group, that still leaves a MILLION men and women who will oppose fascism here every bit as aggressively as men have fought for freedom anywhere, and who will be no less trained to do so than most of their opposition. THAT is what the Founding Fathers intended, and you cannot talk that away, as you can plainly see from the dismal ratings of the guy in the White House at this time. They will be joined by thousands from our military who will refuse to follow illegal orders issued from above to put down a popular uprising, and they will be doing so legally. The Nuremberg defense of 'I was just following orders' will not fly in the 21st Century. Freedom will prevail, and the 2nd Amendment is what will always frighten bullies and wannabe despots from achieving their fascist/socialist nirvana in this country. Having said that, I desperately hope that there is no violence and no innocents lose their lives or are inj
18 months ago: ...injured in the process. Just don't refer to anyone offering '2nd Amendment solutions' as 'terrorists', for you would be including in this group ALL of our Founding Fathers, who risked their life, limb, and fortune to wage war on their ruler, the King of England. They were not terrorists then, and the people you refer to are not terrorists now.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
18 months ago: Reading thru this -- makes me feel proud that there are many oath keepers reading these posts.

There will come a time when the Feds over-step their authority for the last time and make the American people rise up.

But for right now, we are changing this country peacefully one state, one county, one city, one living soul at a time.

A lot of corporate beings, don't know this Federal government is almost broke.

We, the sovereigns, oath keepers, and American nationals, are slowly and peacefully are -- producing a great effect against them.

They still think that nothing has changed and they are wrong.

A lot of people are finding this out.

The constitution is so strong in our hearts, that it has brought many kinds of people together as one.

WE WILL NOT ATTACK OR HARM OUR OWN PEOPLE, FOR THE PROFITS OF INTERNATIONAL BANKERS.

And let me remind all commie Liberals reading these posts.

We will remember you and leave you out, in the future republics.

I will not hire a commie liberal no matter what.

You are the enemy that has cooperated against us, in support of those that took away our rights and liberties.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

Find the clue of who I am in this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7K6P7hl...#!

18 months ago: Time when they step over? April 15, 1861 marks that date.
18 months ago: The extremists, like me, mostly don't go to rallys and certainly not to Tea Parties. Without bothering to address all of your childish dreams, Mr. Altuist, let me just ask you for one favor.

When you send someone to "get me", please be in the front of the stick of surrogates you no doubt expect to do your dirty work.

You can do that for me, can't you?
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: I am glad that so many Oath Keepers are reading this rant. Where were all of your objections when Bush actually DID shred the Constitution. Perhaps the false perception is more important than the reality. Obama has not threatened the Constitution and has in fact restored much transparency and eliminated many of the most grievous abuses of the Constitution.

It is interesting that many of you so blithely disregard the last two hundred years progress and change in the Constitution. Do you just as blithely disregard the New Testament from the Bible, picking and choosing only those violent portions that suit your temperaments?

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

In the past the oath included language that explicitly forbade the type of treasonous terrorism many are now contemplating. Perhaps this language should be brought back?

Under an act of 2 July 1862 the oath became: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I have never borne arms against the United States since I have been a citizen thereof; that I have voluntarily given no aid, countenance, counsel, or encouragement to persons engaged in armed hostility thereto; that I have neither sought nor accepted nor attempted to exercise the functions of any office whatsoever under any authority or pretended authority in hostility to the United States; that I have not yielded voluntary support to any pretended government, authority, power, or constitution within the United States, hostile or inimical thereto. And I do further swear (or affirm) that, to the best of my knowledge and ability, I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God."

http://www.history.army.mil/faq/oaths.ht...

18 months ago: ...I am glad that so many Oath Keepers are reading this rant...

You shouldn't be as in reality every law and every congress since April 15, 1861 has been illegal and un-constitutional. Yes, that means every law, judgment, court action, civil action, criminal action, state ruling and STATE ruling.
Don't think so?

Sign up for the pick up list.
18 months ago: How can they be held to account to...

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States

When they are not acting under Constitutional Law but acting under Executive Law?

Is there a difference?
18 months ago: The UCMJ and regulations referered to requires obedience to LAWFUL orders, not ANY order.

Who said "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God"? Pat yourself on the back if you answered "Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin." They proposed placing the motto on the Great Seal of the United States. Pat yourself even harder if you knew that the phrase was created by John Bradshaw (1602–1659), the lawyer who served as president of the parliamentary commission which sentenced British King Charles I to death. (http://www.libertyunbound.com/archive/2004_05/kopel-tyrants.html)

We are called oathKEEPERS for a reason. You are under the impression that we serve the STATE or politicians; we do NOT. We serve the US Constitution and the people it is designed to protect from tyrannts-and we serve the cause of individual freedom.

I am asking a direct question, so please answer likewise: "Do you have a problem with that?

Do you believe we SHOULD serve the STATE to preserve tratorious politicians positions and the POWER of the STATE? Answer me that?

This is what Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist # 28: "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government..."

What exactly do you think he means there?


Thibodeau Reg
Thibodeau Reg
18 months ago: Any conservative who lives in Oregon knows what a hotbed of old hippies, young rope-heads, and effete socialists comprise the population of Eugene. Logic and reason fled the room long ago in the cities of Oregon, leaving the countryside (populated mostly by decent folk) at the mercy of the crowded cities.

Altruist is a product of the socialist government school system, and probably had Marxist professors in college. And yes, he probably did attend at least some college - you don't have to be able to read, think clearly, or be capable of cleaning your own backside to attend most of the schools in Oregon these days. In fact, those attributes might preclude admission . . .

Those of us who have served in the military know what our oaths were sworn to protect and defend, and it wasn't the CIC, let alone this current individual who "crotch salutes" the flag that represents our Republic. Altruist indeed displays his deep ignorance of the facts, along with his incredible bias against those who would see us return to the principles this country was actually founded upon. Clueless doesn't begin to describe this pathetic creature.
18 months ago: Thibodeau Reg, you're right on the money with your collection of facts. Too bad for Oregon, but it has been Californicated, by the same sorts of people who've ruined the old Bear Flag Republic.

These progressives (scratch a progressive, find a fascist) really don't understand that their 100 year old experiment is OVER.

They now have three choices with what to do with what passes for their lives; leave America and go to some other progressive hell hole, re-educate themselves on how to live in America, or face sanction with extreme prejudice from real Americans.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
18 months ago: Pat H SAID:

"or face sanction with extreme prejudice from real Americans."

You are right. We sovereigns have not fought for decades to permit commie liberals to ruin this country again.

As far as I am concerned, I will have a post soon and I will NOT hire any commie in my office.

As I said before, the commie is our enemy and we have to spot them, report them, in order to keep them from destroying our dreams again.

"The socialists believe the best way to change a culture, a civilization, a way of thinking, is to infiltrate and begin to move as a member of the aristocracy, as a member of that group and infiltrate from within and use those principles. ... The concept of infiltrating and changing from within is the socialist mentality to get where you want to go."
-- Ted Flynn, author of 'Hope of the Wicked'

All patriots that love the Constitution need to unite and fight to remain free.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

Find the clue of who I am in this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7K6P7hl...#!

18 months ago: Altruist:

You wrote: "There is no possible way that a bunch of weekend warriors can take on the most powerful military in the world, no matter how many weapons they acquire."

You have NO idea how many of us are oathkeepers. We won't attack our own people--besides, we are deployed all over the world, if they (your so-called "terrorists") decide to do it tomorrow, who is there to stop it?

if it happens that 3% of the gun owners raise their arms up to stop the march toward despotism that we ARE in fact on--that would be 2.8 million armed citizens? Who exactly is going to stop them? ? all four branches total only 1.5 million and most are deployed around the world. And some of that 2.8 million will include some Active Duty, Reservists, and National Guard, as well as some police. Believe me on that score! As much as 40% of the military and police if my informal surveys are any indicator---and you'd be surprised how often this topic comes up in the military, privately, of course, and with the police, if conversations with my friends in Law Enforcement are anything to guage by.

Also, you may have noticed that we are having trouble with a few thousands of Taliban who are pitted against the best trained, best equipped fighting force--and you think 2.8 million will be easy pickings? I think your overly optimistic.

You also wrote: "The first step is to realize that in this country, the majority rules."

You are wrong. We are under the rule of LAW, not of the majority. If 99% of the people tell 1% you can't own guns, it doesn't fly. The US Constitution and the Law, protect the rights of the minority, as you noted yourself.

Also, be aware that it was a mere 3% of the Colonists that took up arms against the British. More than 1/3 of the colonists were were tories., the rest either didn't care of supported morally and with finances that little 3%. It was a violent minority that chose our course for independence.

You wrote: "When the left thinks of change they think of collective bargaining and using the non violent protests of the majority of the people, to overcome the totalitarian authoritarianism of the minority."

Collective bargaining is a socialist concept--socialism demands subordination to the state. You have a funny idea of what constitutes totalitarianism! A government telling me how much I am allowed to earn; that I owe my labor (portion of my life) to government; that I must buy health insurance; pay a fine or if I don't, then go to jail--is a totalitarian regime.

You wrote:
"In almost every election the losers vow to work with the winners and cooperate for the good of the country."

Really? When was that. I was there when Reagan was president; the left villified and opposed him at every turn. Same for Bush 1 and Bush 2. Cooperate? Not sure what planet you were on, but it wasn't the third one from the sun!

You wrote:

Of course most of the volunteer army and the rest of the military is conservative and they also think that force is the answer to many of the world's problems. But the difference is these soldiers have seen the real horror of a real shooting war and would never want that to happen at home. Besides they have all sworn allegiance to their Commander in Chief.

It is true, most of us are conservative--but I have met too many liberals, including fellow officers. But you are wrong about violence at home. While I would PREFER it be avoided(by better behavior/choices at the polls by the electorate), though I doubt it can be, and if it causes a catharsis that returns individual liberty, it will be worth the loss of life--but that outcomeis doubful too, as too many people are addicted to government. You're wrong about the oath too. My oath of office only requires that I protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC! Those who usurp powers under the color of law are such enemies. Now my commission states that
18 months ago: Altruist: (Continued)

Now my commission states that I will obey the LAWFUL orders of the President and those officers appointed over me. Any unlawful or Unconstitutional order I will be quick to disobey and in fact resist. I WILL UNQUESTIONABLY OBEY ALL LAWFUL ORDERS--BUT ONLY LAWFUL ORDERS.

As to the people and their Second Amandment rights, we should really hear from Thomas Jefferson:

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

This IS the singular purpose of the Second Amendment.

Here is one more useful quote:

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? ...Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.


I will tell you: many of us see a civil war coming. The last so-called civil war wan't. It was a failed attempt at independence. This one would be a true civil war. Failing to secure our borders and attempting to stop states from doing so and ignoring the invasion; together with destroying the best healthcare sysem and criminalizing failure to purchase government mandated insurance; and the attempt at disarming Americans (they are being subtle about it using the UN Arms Treaty to do what the legislature and courts wouldn't or couldn't do) are bound to incite a revolution.

Several things could stop that:

1. A change in heart by those who see themselves as our masters and not our servants--not likely
2. Better choices at the ballot box--also not likely
3. A parting of the ways--a breakup of the union into free sections and socialist sections. Would be peaceful and practical and wholly unacceptable to the left who want control over EVERYONES lives not some of them.--so also no likely
4. Secession by force. It would be bloody, but not as bad as widespread insurrection.
5. Economic Collapse. Very likely at this point. We have (in reality) a 100 Trillion dollar debt and a GNP of only $12 Trillion. We are in serious trouble. And if there IS an economic collapse, all law and order will break down. People will kill each other for the few things left on the shelves and then invade peoples homes, killing them for the available staples there.

In the end our nation of 300 million will be reduced to a population--after violence and starvation, to about 30 million--maybe. On top of that there will be an invasion to worry about from the south as they try to flee their own despots and starvation and violence--and some will be armies as well, no doubt.

I am NOT the only one seeing this as a quite likely future. Can it be stopped. Perhaps, but if so, time is running out. But even wothout the economic collapse, the revolution will occur if liberty does not gain a more easy foothold than it has.


One final thought--a quote from the 18th century philosopher, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe:

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

18 months ago: Hi Sam,

One year of Obama leads to Civil War? I'm not satisfied either but dang, I don't think it's time to storm the White House.

Or is it deeper than Obama or the Republicans losing the White House via electoral vote?

When did to coals of war begin to be fanned to the point where you see guerrillas and armed revolutionaries violently overthrowing the American Government? So you feel we are at or near the last resort already? Gosh.

I don't believe it's going to work out that way. The American people have more resolve and are smarter that that. In the meantime I think you've written one heck of a movie script. I'm serious.
18 months ago: Oh my. Did I mention the 2 years of Obama? No. I was addressing misconceptions about the military, their oaths and 2A rights and the purpose behind the 2A. Also pointing out that very little could be done to stop a sufficiently populary uprising. It won't be about Obama---it will be the final straw of more than 75 years of unconstitutional encroachment of powers--but also pointing out that that may be usurped itself by economic collapse which will cause the USA to cease to exist as it breaks apart from internal forces caused by no food and 300 million people.

Guess you went to a public school, eh?

18 months ago: Great. Thanks for clearing that up. 75 years. Got it.

http://www.sellascript.com/index.cfm?CFI...

Still stands.
18 months ago: Careful Huey. You don't realize how close it is.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: Thanks for your eloquent arguments Sam. I disagree with almost everything ou said but at least you have some ideas which is more than I can say for most of the right wing comments. Instead of attempting a violent overthrow why don't you work to make the voting system more amenable to third parties so your ideas can be made into law? Why don't we see policies coming out of the Tea Party other than the identical policies that Bush almost destroyed the country and the world economy with?

You still haven't answered why you and the rest of the right were not up in arms when Bush was Really shredding the constitution. There is a false perception that Obama is harming the Constitution but he is in reality restoring the integrity of the Constitution.

Bush attempted to restore the country to a Monarchy thus eliminating the entire Constitution with his policy of the Unitary Executive. I am surprised that you did not object to his violation of the Geneva Convention with his torture and rendition policies, Guantanamo, Abu Greib, or a dozen other international treaties and laws. Where were you when he violated the Constitution by illegally wiretapping and searching and seizing?

You seem to disregard the concept that the majority should rule in this country preferring the concept of might makes right. If you and your jackbooted thugs were to take over, what would make your military dictatorship any better than the hundreds of similar military takeovers in South America?

The majority elected Obama with a clear mandate for change. Just because you and the rest of the sore losers disagree with that mandate is no reason to throw away two hundred years of progress. Obama is unpopular because he is a pragmatic Centrist, the right hates him because they want to return to the failed policies of Bush, the Left hates him because he is not bringing about change fast enough, he continuously tries to work within the system in bipartisan ways.

History will see through the hysteria and paranoia of the right and see the serious accomplishments of this administration and how Obama avoided total disaster in the most trying of times.
18 months ago: When exactly were we a monarchy that we could be restored to one?
Many of us did critisize Bush for certain elements of the Patriot Act and other laws, all passed nearly unanimously I might add. The problem with government is its tendency to grow and encroach on powers designed by the founders to be left to the states--or even to the people--that is what the 10th Amendment was about. The BOR generally was to limit government's reach into our natural, pre-existing rights, rights, thus from the Preamble to the Bill of Rights (BOR)

"THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added..."

We have our rights from God--the BOR does not grant rights--it assumes them, enumerates some and tells government they have no authority over them. All REAL natural rights are absolute..because exercising them to the nth degree does not infringe upon anothers. My right to keep and bear arms--ANY arms (yes nukes too, if I could afford them) does not infringe on your rights at all. Keeping and Bearing is not the same as USING. Sorry, there is no right to FEEL comfortable, safe, or anything, snce it is impossible to guarantee any FEELINGS except on s limited basis against real concrete rights--liketo defend my life and property against criminals or government --and sometimes the one is the other.

Have you READ the geneva convention? The following are protected classes: Civilians (non-combatants), military IN THE UNIFORM OF A RECOGNIZED STATE who has surrendered. COMBATANTS DRESSED AS CIVILIANS OR NOT IN THE UNIFORM OF A RECOGNIZED STATE ARE AFFORDED NO PROTECTION. PERIOD!!!!

Terrorists are NOT criminals; they are warfighters. And they are not in uniform.
I will go further though. We should and MUST repudiate that treaty. It is endlessly argued how we must not only follow it, but exceed it so that in any war, our soldiers will be likewise treated. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN IN ANY WAR IN WHICH THE US SOLDIER HAS FOUGHT, WHERE THE ENEMY FOLLOWED ANY PROVISION OF THE CONVENTION WHETHER SIGNATORY OR NOT: JAPAN, GERMANY, ITALY, RUSSIA, CHINA, KOREA, VIETNAM. NOT ONE!

IT HURTS US AND OFFERS US NO PROTECTION.

Wiretapping terrorists calling from OUTSIDE the US to their parties INSIDE the US does not violate US laws. And its the prudent thing to do? No one is tapping US phones. FISA DOES allow it once a KNOWN terrorist calls a US based number to track and tap THAT phone. But that is by a court-due process is served as there is now probable cause.

The majority you claim is 51-49 1% is not a mandate. And many of us warned he was a dyed-in-the-wool socialist--and for my money, probably an out and out communist. but he is also a realist and knows like most leftists they have to move the country in small increments. We warned the electorate who blaked and they threw a temper tantrum and not so much voted FOR Obama so much as AGAINST Bush. I mean look at the campaign her ran---He never really addressed McCain except to say that he was BUSH. It was alwys BUSH he was running against and Bush could not run again--so much for the monarchy theory!

The only jackbooted thugs of which I am aware are the BATFE and DEA.

I am not so keen on the FBI either, but they are no where near as abusive and out of control as the BATFE and DEA. Doen't matter..none of that alphabet soup is constitutional. Police powers are not addressed in the USC and under the 10th Amendment, if a power is notaddressed in the USC, then it is denied the Feds and allowed the people or states.

It would not be a military dictatorship if 3 or 4 million of the gun owners revolted, but a restoration to the founders principles.

Personally, I would prefer the electorate wakeup (more than a few have buyer's remorse as it is) but even if they reject Oba
18 months ago: Continued--

Obama, this does not mean the electorate will choose wisely. Lookslikethe rest was cut off and I am not going to do this again. It is 12:06 where I am

I will just say that I expect an economic collapse due to the 100 Trillion Dollar debt with a GNP of only 12 Trillion. Damn, I ha some cool stuff on Orwell's 1984, and the conditions of the nations and peoplewhen the Iron curtain fell and Milton Friedman's great speech in 1995 before the Senate, where he testified that socialism had never worked in 6,000 years of human history and that Capitalism works whenever tried! And reminiscent of Krushev, Kennedy stood up and pounded his fist (at least it wasn't his shoe) and withhis great hubris, stated, "That's because I am not in charge, " approximately.

Shame because it really was good stuff...oh well. I am going to bed.

Unless soemthing happens (like letting the private sector solve this), there will be an economic collapse and of the 300 million alive in the US, it will end with 20-30 million remaining after the killing and starvation ends.

Doubt freedom as the founders had it in mind will survive--it's ll but dead now!

G'Night!
18 months ago: Bad keyboard here and typing too fast --it's type-os not spelling errors.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: Good points sam but I still disagree with most. The most successful governments today are what you would call socialist or communist. The Scandinavian countries have better economies than the rest of europe, the people are happier, healthier and have more freedoms to enjoy life.

You are correct that the United States had it's run and will probably slowly sink into obscurity while China takes over as the most important government in the world. The United States is no longer investing in the future. We are about 37th in education. Our manufacturing base is gone, and we no longer have the edge in innovation. The next tech boom will be in solar and green technologies and while China is investing $700 billion in the next 10 years and is looking ahead 50 years America can't even get a decent energy bill passed because the right wing pisses and moans that it will be the biggest tax increase in history while the CBO says it will cost each family about what a postage stamp costs each day.

Today we give hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate welfare to the fossil fuel industries which are making record breaking profits while they pollute the planet. Yet the Republicans voted down paring down that giveaway a tiny bit, and are against allowing the tax breaks for the super rich to lapse, while filibustering giving aid to those out of work. That shows the priorities of the right. Screw the majority of people so the rich bastards can have their constitutional right to make more money than god, while paying half the taxes of the rest of us.
18 months ago: Al, you truley are a commie...

..."The most successful governments today are what you would call socialist or communist"...

Really? wait until you and all of you family gets a one way ticket to join them. I bet you change your tune real fast.
18 months ago: Inaddition to not understanding freedom, it's source and the Lockian philosophy behind it (either that or simpy rejecting it) you also do not understand economic.

There is a difference between profit MARGIN and total profit. If I have a profit margin of $.08 on a dollar sold and each unit costs 4 dollars then I have a profit of $.32 and sell 80 billion units that is total sales receipts of 320 billion dollars for a TOTAL PROFIT of 25.6 Billion. A lot of dough. But not "obscene" (can there really BE such a thing? Products are worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. Profits are maximized by a supply, cost, demand curve) as the profit margin is a mere 8 percent. And 8 cents on the dollar just happens to be the profit margin of the oil companies. That is why I chose that example. They sell a LOT of units. But at a mere 8% pm, it wouldn't take much for that profit to become a loss as BP is now learning.

I ran (owned) a computer and networking company and I made sure that when I sold goods that I had at LEAST a 25% pm. Otherwise I wouldn't sell it. Not worth it to me. And the Microsoft and HP small business channels did not make it easy. Eventually I stuck to services only. In 2000 I charged $120 dollars per network drop terminated--and I got it, too!

My wife is from Norway. They don't cover lots, and older people are not covered for expensive stuff. They weigh the wuality of life and also how long the receipient of the care is likely to live. UK and all countries with socialized medicine is like that. They don't call that death panels of course, but effectively that's what it is. Someone ELSE making the choices for you. Continued.


18 months ago: Here, the choices are your own. If you chose to drink or do drugs, not avail yourself as a young person of the public schools--such as they are, and did not compete well enough to earn a scholarship or work three jobs (I did) to pay for college --took out a loan which I paid back--or choose a major that can make you money (like engineering, physics, chemistry, mathematics, computer science) and if you have a sucky work ethic---and now you can't afford to buy a house, eat or pay a doctor, well, that is YOUR lookout not mine. It is not the role of government to even it up.

I certainly have no quarells with voluntary charitable organizations, churches, or family that wish to aid these people VOLUNTARILY, but government has no business putting a government gun to my head and giving the fruits of MY labor to someone else. That is THEFT no matter how you try and spin it.

Scandanavia IS having problems--but the other writer is correct, they are or at least until recently were homogenous. They are also not populace either and they have Oil revenue from the North Sea--and neither are they afraid to hunt wales.

Nevertheless their experiment in socialism is slowly failing. And the writer is correct about the Fabians as well.

Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: By the way Obama won with a 53% to 46% majority. That was a hell of a lot closer to a mandate than the elections that Bush stole yet he acted as though he had a mandate.

So you would just ignore any of the Constitution that had been revised (with State ratification) since 1791. Lets see that would only be about 3/4ths of the New Testament you would ignore. You could pare down the 10 commandments to an eye for an eye.

You still haven't explained how the Tea Party or your NRA revolution would pay off the $14 trillion debt that Republicans created 90% of. Would you eliminate half of the military and the 3,000 separate intelligence agencies, or would you just eliminate Social Security and Medicare, and throw the old and crippled out into the streets to die like dogs. Yeah that will gain you lots of support!

And it is good to know that your NRA domestic terrorists would be torturing everyone and expect the same, and that your revolutionary government would disdain almost all international law and treaties. That should get you lots of support.
18 months ago: Ignore the Constitution---the document that is the enemy of every leftist ever. So they make up the concept that it is a living, breathing document (it is changeable but only through article 5, not judicial fiat with the creation of rights not mentioned in the BOR. The 2A at least enumerates a right and tells government not to infringe upon it At ALL!

The rest of what you say does not deserve the dignity when you talk nonsense about stolen elections. Seen any "Black Helicopters"

Get some tinfoil and wrap it around your head and the waves will be stopped and you won't hear the voices anymore.
BadCyborg
BadCyborg
San Antonio, TX
18 months ago: Altruist blithely opined:
That was a hell of a lot closer to a mandate than the elections that Bush stole yet he acted as though he had a mandate.

Bush stole nothing. He didn't even get a present from SCOTUS. Unlike the misinformation that has been circulating for a decade now, SCOTUS did not give GW the White House in a 5-4 vote (which, if you were AT ALL knowedgable about the SCOTUS you would know is an excellent margin for that court). The 5-4 vote was only to grant a writ of certeriori - hear the case. The actual vote in Bush V Gore was 7-2! That means even 2 of the LIBERALS on the court agreed that Gore lost! No case decided by a 7-2 vote should even GET to SCOTUS.

Oh and as for the NRA, they are not even in the business of protecting the 2nd Amendment any more. They have totally abandoned their raison d'etre in favor of being power players. They did not oppose Sonja Sotomayor and only reluctantly opposed Elena Kagan. Hell! They are just about ready to endorse Harry Reid for goodness sake. As the grey imminence of the conservative movement put it
When the histories are written, "National Rifle Association" will be cross-referenced with "Judenrat."
The Judenrat were the liasons between the Nazis and the Jewish ghettos. They are infamous for their collaboration.

Actually the last thing that the insurrection members would be doing would be "torturing everyone". You see they've done their homework. They know that the way to win in such a situation is to out GOVERN your enemies, not out FIGHT them. We can out fight the Taliban but we and the government in Kabul are doing a urine poor job of governing. That is why we are losing in Afghanistan. You can bet your left nut that the insurrectionists will do a better jo of governing than the progressive sympathizers fighting for them

But you would not understand such things, Altruist. You are constitutionally incapable of it. Progressivism/liberalism/statism/socialism is a mental disorder. It is said that neurotics build castles in the sky and psychotics LIVE in those castles. The left lives in a fantasy world utterly disconnected from reality. The depth of that disconnect is amply demonstrated by the huge - and growing - gulf between the liberal elites an the rank and file Americans.

There is a storm brewing, young man and your world view precludes you from even perceiving the mortal danger you and your ilk are in.

That is a good thing.

You will likely never know what hit you.

I leave you with these sage words:
"Son, let me explain something to you. You don't poke a wolverine with a sharp stick unless you want your balls ripped off." -- Grandpa Vanderboegh's Rule of Life #32.

Bad Cyborg X%er
18 months ago: Altruist, your statements astonish. I don't know from where you received your information about various "successful" government, nor from where you've received your indoctrination into what appears to be Fabian Socialism; but what matters most is that virtually all socialist (read fascist, what the Fabians actually were) government fail eventually. The Scandinavian countries fascism has lasted the longest for two reasons; first they had a homogeneous population for the most part, and second, they had a very strong cultural work ethic. Those two things carried them very far. However, the decades of fascist programs, what you'd call socialist, has virtually destroyed their work ethic, couple that with the very destructive immigration policies they adopted 30 or 40 years ago, spells doom for them all. Because I'm a health care professional, I've discussed this extensively with colleagues from those countries, they're my source of information.

Last, you'll have to come to grips with the fact that we Americans are ending the progressive (i.e. fascist) experiment that began approximately 100 years ago. It has failed and brought us to this crossroad in our lives.

We're not going to tolerate any fascist policies any longer from people like you, Obama, and the rest. If we have to purge you from our country, so be it.

We're not going to engage in a military take over of Washington, we're going to ignore them as they collapse. Fornicate them.

Your ideas are anachronisms that have no place in America any longer.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
18 months ago: Pat H

"We're not going to engage in a military take over of Washington, we're going to ignore them as they collapse. Fornicate them."

That is all we can do right now. We took away the fed's and state's bonds and the states are not sending money to the feds any more.

The feds are losing the support of the states and are almost broke.

The link below exposes this facts and many more.

I am also a oath keeper and know that we have many other groups that are behind the sovereignty movement.

BUT in the future we sovereigns will get each and every commie Liberals, out of positions of authority from all depts in the new republics.

Commie liberals need to be exposed and fired.

They are our worst enemy.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232

http://www.powercrossing.com/


18 months ago: The most successful governments today are what you would call socialist or communist.--Altruist

Agreed. Communists are *uncommonly successful* at impoverishing, oppressing and murdering their own people.

All you statists are of a common stamp. You take perverse delight in people being crushed beneath the wheels of an all-powerful state. Perhaps that is why you view heavily armed and restive Americans with such apprehension. You know we intend to resist our subjugation.
18 months ago: [N]eurotics build castles in the sky and psychotics LIVE in those castles. The left lives in a fantasy world utterly disconnected from reality. The depth of that disconnect is amply demonstrated by the huge - and growing - gulf between the liberal elites an the rank and file Americans.--Bad Cyborg X%er

The rising tide of opposition is sapping your sand-castle foundation, Altruist.:

People call
Say beware, doll
You're bound to fall
You thought they were all
Kiddin' you
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: Lots of hot air! Not one word about how you armed folk will pay off the $14 trillion debt or solve any of the other problems we are beset with.

How will you compete with China, when you are afraid of investing in the future, or paying your bills?

Anyone crazy enough to follow you should take a few basic math courses first. Out of the pot into the fire.
18 months ago: Concerns about freedom and individual liberty and government oppression hotair? Well, no doubt about it---a statist here! It's not 14 Trillion--it's 100 Trillion thanks to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid. And thanks to a ridiculous tax system (should be consumption-based) and confiscatory as it is, business is hamstringed.

I am curious what your earnings are. Bet your one of those unable to compete. I am not rich, but I did more than $90,000. Ans somehow you think what's mine is yours!

Your worried about competition with China! Good heavens, with a GNP of 12 Trillion, we can't pay that debt and without a fast dropping of social spending, unconstitutional in any event. To quote James Madison:

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

There were f&&**ng liberals even THEN!

And Madison wrote the Constitution!

When the US economy collapses the entire world will plunge in to a new darkage. The vast majority of the USA population will be killed or starve unless we pay attention to basic economic--ever read Milton Freidman?

Get a clue you communist. And what kind of governments have killed their own poulations? Communist/socialists, that's who!

You are what Lenin referred to as a useful idiot. Guess where they all end up?


18 months ago: altruist said:
Lots of hot air! Not one word about how you armed folk will pay off the $14 trillion debt or solve any of the other problems we are beset with.
Virtually 100% of current problems can be laid at the feet of the 100 year old failed progressive experiment. That's why we're ending it.

How will you compete with China, when you are afraid of investing in the future, or paying your bills?
What ARE you writing about? Oh, yes, you're off in another progressive fantasy again.

Anyone crazy enough to follow you should take a few basic math courses first. Out of the pot into the fire.
You're a statist in full support of failed progressive policies, and you're lecturing someone else? Get a grip.
18 months ago: Lots of hot air! Not one word about how you armed folk will pay off the $14 trillion debt...--Altruist

When each new Congressional budget adds $1 trillion to the deficit, it makes repayment of the national debt increasingly difficult. So, here is a suggested first step to repaying the (massively understated) $14 trillion debt: stop spending.

Simple, ain't it? Didn't you get any training in how to manage a personal budget when you were fervently poring through the pages of Das Kapital during your Eugene Community College days?

THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
18 months ago:
Altruist Eugene, OR said:

"Lots of hot air! Not one word about how you armed folk will pay off the $14 trillion debt or solve any of the other problems we are beset with."

The Federal debt is their debt. The Federal Reserve is NOT part of our Republics, but a foreign corporation of the International Bankers, who the feds owe this money to.

Every Sovereign knows about the treason you commie Liberals done in 1933.

When each State removes itself from the yoke of the feds, they will not send money to the feds anymore. The feds then will owe the Federal Reserve Notes worth 3 cents to the Elites who own you.

We will refuse to pay a foreign debt, created by treason.

Under the original constitution and common law, the only way to break ANY contract was to prove fraud in a trial by jury under the common law and not under admiralty law.

Treason is a form of fraud, so the contract with the Elite Bankers is null and void.

Let the commie Liberals pay back the debt that THEY caused by treason.

We won't because we the people did not consent to it by vote.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232

http://www.powercrossing.com/
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: So you don't think any revenue generation is legal, you don't want to cut the military or stop our wars. You probably think the Bush tax cuts for the rich which costs $700 billion a year and hasn't garnered us any jobs should continue, yet you also begrudge the unemployed enough to live on, and you probably agree with the Republicans that tax breaks for the small businesses to generate jobs is wrong.

No wonder you think the country will collapse so the armed and violent can pick up the scattered pieces.

If you don't generate revenue and you are unwilling to cut our major spending and you don't believe in stimulus except for the rich and the corporations that don't need it, then yes the country will collapse when the interest on the debt crowds out all other spending.

At least the Democrats are trying to stop the disaster, to cut spending and to become fiscally responsible again. The right is just interested in destroying the country so they can pick up the pieces.

I bet you were the same guys that were trying to bring about a major war in the middle east to bring about Armageddon because you figured you would be raptured up to heaven and wouldn't have to worry about the hell on earth you created.
18 months ago:
Original Comment:

So you don't think any revenue generation is legal,
The only revenue generation that's legal and legitimate is that acquired voluntarily. All that is acquired coercively is illegitimate, coercive taxation is theft.
you don't want to cut the military or stop our wars.
Coercive taxation was begun to fund unlimited warfare, the welfare state was thrown in as a sop to you progressive fascists in order to gain your support.
You probably think the Bush tax cuts for the rich
Tax cuts aren't targeted, they help all of us retain our private wealth.
which costs $700 billion a year
Tax cuts aren't a cost, taxes are a cost. I don't know where you learned economics, but you should ask for a refund.
and hasn't garnered us any jobs should continue,
The US government has never created a single job outside government, not once, not ever.
yet you also begrudge the unemployed enough to live on,
No man owes another one single second of his labor, your advocacy of stealing wealth from one man to give to another by force is advocacy of enslavement. What makes you support slavery?
and you probably agree with the Republicans that tax breaks for the small businesses to generate jobs is wrong.
Real tax elimination is always good. There are virtually no tax reductions being offered by the Mighty Kenyan.

No wonder you think the country will collapse so the armed and violent can pick up the scattered pieces.
The armed will be required to do that in order to defend themselves from the likes of you. You advocate theft from others in order for your own survival, we'll prevent that.

If you don't generate revenue
You mean steal wealth from others.
and you are unwilling to cut our major spending and you don't believe in stimulus except for the rich and the corporations that don't need it, then yes the country will collapse when the interest on the debt crowds out all other spending.
Corporations are created by and for government, usually fascists such as yourself. Most of us realize that corporations are a dangerous, obsolete adjunct to the leviathan state that need to be eliminated.

At least the Democrats are trying to stop the disaster, to cut spending and to become fiscally responsible again.
No they're not. There are no spending cuts being proposed of any kind, in fact the huge and untenable Obama Care law increases taxes everywhere.
The right is just interested in destroying the country so they can pick up the pieces.
America will survive, fascists and their government, that's you, are unlikely to survive. That's a plus for America.

I bet you were the same guys that were trying to bring about a major war in the middle east to bring about Armageddon because you figured you would be raptured up to heaven and wouldn't have to worry about the hell on earth you created.
That's Obama that wants a war to bail him out of his collapsing regime, his junta. He's got Hillary ginning up war with several countries.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
18 months ago: Pat there is only one minuscule part of your comment that I accept, and that is that the Corporations are bad, but the corporate state is what Bush and the radical right brought about. The right wing corporatists are the fascists which by the way, is the opposite of what we socialists believe in.

Obama gave tax cuts to 95% of the public and one third of the stimulus was tax cuts, mostly to the middle class. A recent Senate bill that Obama fought for was to give tax breaks to small businesses, (which create 65% of the jobs) but the Republicans filibustered this bill, and the democrats were not able to muster the supermajority to pass the bill.

It was the neocons in the Bush cabinet that were actively working towards end of days theological foreign policies. The Obama policy of diplomatic pragmatism has regained much of the nation's reputation that Bush squandered.
18 months ago: to coninue: As for taxation, explain how Obama gave tax CUTS to 95% of the people. the lower 40% of wage earners pay 0 tax. The bottom 50% pay 3.7% of all taxes. The top 1% pay 34% of all tax revenues though they represent less than 20% of the wages earned. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes collected. What do you consider their "fair Share," 90% of their earning? All of it? Are they slaves to the state to satisfy the needs of the "poor"?

From each according to their ability TO ach according to his need, eh? Apparently your ability is quite small but your need from the way you write appears to be quite great!

Income taxes are taxes on wages which represnt labor. LAbor represents time I have negotiated with my emplyer for compensation of my time and labor--which is my LIFE. Saying that I owe a percentage of my LABOR--that is my TIME is tantamount to saying that I am the very LEAST a seff of the State and at worst, its slave.

This is why our founders dismissed the idea of the income tax and

1. set clear limits of government authority where the Commerce Clause simply gave congree the power to tax goods and services crossing borders---and this the extent of that power--at least by our founders' reckoning!
2. Set up consumption taxes to pay for the CONSTITUTIONAL expense of government.

We can save this country if we do three things:

1. Stop ALL government spending except for ACTUAL Cosntitutionally mandated functions--which is pretty limited, most agencies and department would dissapear.
2. Repeal the 16th Amendment, and therby scrap the Income tax and payrol deductions
3. Institute the FairTax which includes (a nice progressive touch) a prebate to cover all taxes on expenes up to the poverty line and sdjusted for family size.

And one other thing to improve liberty:

Repeal the 17th Amendment. There should not be 2 whores to the peole--just the house. The Senate should be representing the State legislatures in Washingon


the founders ruled out income tax because it implies
18 months ago: to finish:

Because sometimes the people want something done knee-jerk (like they did in the last election and there is some serious buyer's remorse NOW) and if the Senate is also the whore of the people, it will be hard to sop an unwise choice--but if the Senate were the whores of the State legislatures, and the State legislatures see the danger, they could easily stop it!

Our founders were wise and we need to repeal the 17th Amendment.

Now, answer me my question I asked some time ago? Why do you want to turn this country into a 3rd-wordl socialist country when you can move to one and I have even offered to pay your way, subject to only 2 conditions.

It's a genuine offer. I have money to buy the ticket--I'll even let you take whoever your own whore is with you. I am sure she (or are you REALLY progressive and its a guy?) wants to live in the same third-world socialist state with you and you can get her (if a she) pregnant and abort [kill] all your babies like a good progressive--that's the term you all like to use for socialist/communist these days, isn't it or have you a NEW euphamism?

18 months ago:
Original Comment:

Pat there is only one minuscule part of your comment that I accept, and that is that the Corporations are bad, but the corporate state is what Bush and the radical right brought about. The right wing corporatists are the fascists which by the way, is the opposite of what we socialists believe in.
First, the progressives, and their predecessors the 19th century Lincolnian merchantilists, brought you the current corporate, centralized state, not Jeffersonian/libertarian capitalists. That you know nothing of the history of YOUR socialism is telling. Fascists are socialists.

Obama gave tax cuts to 95% of the public and one third of the stimulus was tax cuts, mostly to the middle class.
No, there have been absolutely no tax cuts whatsoever. You're a know-nothing about this, apparently, either that or you're a shill for the progressive/fascists.
A recent Senate bill that Obama fought for was to give tax breaks to small businesses, (which create 65% of the jobs) but the Republicans filibustered this bill, and the democrats were not able to muster the supermajority to pass the bill.
Nonsense.

It was the neocons in the Bush cabinet that were actively working towards end of days theological foreign policies. The Obama policy of diplomatic pragmatism has regained much of the nation's reputation that Bush squandered.
Neocons ARE progressives, i.e. warmongering fascists. Woodrow Wilson was a fascist, Franklin Roosevelt was a super-fascist, as most presidents post Roosevelt have been. Neocons are Trotskyite socialists.

You're locked into the left-right dichotomy, which is a pile of dung. The Bush family has long been wedded to progressivism, both Bush presidents were progressives. Fascism is not a conservative philosophy or economy, it is pure socialism.

It is you.
18 months ago: I will address the other items later. Your use of the word fascist if incorrect: While Wikipedia tries to say that there are elements of both the political left and right while ascribing more of it to the right, it DOES say correctly about fascism that:

"Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity"

No right-thinking (literally or figuratively) person believes in anything collectivist--that is strictly a left wing view. The further right on the spectrum the closer to anarchy you are. We do not believe in subordinating the individual to the state, but the opposite. The state (meaning government, not as in Georgia, or Massachusetts) serves me, not the other way around.

Socialsm has NEVER worked (except for elites--don't any of you ever read 1984?). Human beings work on reward. Capitalism provides that reward. When the eastern block fell--as it had to, there had been no innovation, new technological development. And where are all the scientific and medicale technology and new medicines done--by private sector and mostly here in the US. But all you who hate "EVIL" corporations (you DO know a corporation is a fiction, right?) are likely flunkies unable to compete in a competitive environment. I have done well. I am not "lucky," I studied hard and work hard and still study for 4 hours every day after my work day and I am 51!

I also owned my own business for 5 years as well.

Corporations are businesses made up of people--ordinary people who have children and grand children who breathe the same air and drink the same water as everyone else on this planet. They take their kids or grandkids to the park and church and do all the other things. And I have found most people to be quite ethical. But anyone who makes a profit (if people pay willingly how can it be an obscene profit--just because YOU'RE not successful enough to be able to buy the product?) Continued---taxation

THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
18 months ago: All that has changed.

Now there are only political types in the new Republics.

1. Pro-constitution or Anti-Constitution.

2. Patriots or Commie Liberals.

3. Sovereigns or Non-Sovereigns.

4. Free men and women or corporate slaves.

5. Debt that is our own or foreign debt to International Commie bankers

Forget the past, all that has changed!!!

These are the only labels that mean anything.

Take your pick -- what are you?

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232

http://www.powercrossing.com/

18 months ago: "[T]he corporate state is what Bush and the radical right brought about. The right wing corporatists are the fascists which by the way, is the opposite of what we socialists believe in.

FDR's National Recovery Act was designed to force industry into cartels, a sine equanon of fascist economies. Roosevelt and Mussolini maintained a friendly and regular correspondence. Mussolini often made favorable reference to FDR's economic policies in his speeches and writings.

Roosevelt was a left-winger. Roosevelt was also a fascist. The German National Socialist Party (NAZI) was also, ahem...socialist. Altuist's socialist beliefs have their roots in Nazism, fascism and communism.

History shows that socialists (brown or red) will only respect the rights of free men if free men are armed and prepared to resist. This we intend to do.
Content Removed by Pat H
18 months ago: Another valuable resource for all Americans is America in Crisis - A Southern Solution: http://sncspan.tv/AIC_video_fp.php .

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