START A RANT
SIGN UP / SIGN IN
GET PAID TO POST
FOLLOW ON TWITTER
START A RAVE
MY PROFILE
CONTACT US
ABOUT US
Culture & Lifestyle

Rant

Scientology.....Pyramid scheme?

Posted 39 months ago|41 comments|1,723 views
Written by
amishking
 Moderator
 Auburn, NY
I'm looking for some answers here. In the wake of the tragedy in the Travolta family, I've been hearing things about Scientology. I hope some of you can clear some things up for me.

-Is this based on a science fiction book? Not that it's bad, since some people think the bible is fiction.

-Is Scientology recognized as tax exempt?

-Do you have to give money to the church in order to advance? That doesn't seem kosher to me.

-Are you asked to raise money? That seems normal to me.

-Do they think they can talk to L. Ron Hubbard? Directly?

-Is it a secret organization like the masons?

Anyone got any answers or opinions? Let me know. Thanks.

EMAIL|FLAG THIS POST
COMMENTS
39 months ago: 1. No. The book Dianetics is a self-help book that was written in 1950 by a sci-fi writer.

2. It is tax-exempt in the US and some other countries. Not all countries recognize Scientology as a religion.

3. Yes, advancement costs money. Nothing is free in Scientology, and it gets more and more expensive as you progress. In this sense, it is not religion but a business. They list their fees as "donations" to skirt the issue.

4. I have never met a Scientologist who claims to talk to L. Ron, nor is this in any of the Church's leaked documents (that I know of).

5. The OT levels are supposedly secret, but since most (if not all) of the documents have been leaked this is no longer the case. Many Scientologists deny the existence of Xenu (a core tenet of Scientology), but this is either because they have not progressed to the level of OT III yet, or because they are simply lying to protect their church's doctrine from scrutiny.
39 months ago: Content Removed by RantRave Admin
Louanne
Louanne
Los Angeles, CA
39 months ago: Hi, here are some answers:

1. No, it is not based on a science fiction book. It's based on 18 books that have no "science fiction" in them. You find them listed here: bridgepub.com. Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard (1911-1986) had many qualities, one of them was that he wrote fiction books in the 1930s. There are no parallels between Scientology writings and the fiction books (galaxypress.com).

2. Yes, the Church of Scientology and all its charities are tax-exempt in the US, since 1993. The Church also recognized and tax exempt in many other countries. A rather incomplete list of those is here: www.thetruthaboutscientology.info

3. Each Church of Scientology is raising money to survive and has fund raisers for their social projects. Members do not have to pay a percentage of their income or any fixed amount to be a member. The Church is surviving from donations (more about that here: http://www.scientologytoday.org/Common/question/index.htm)

4. No, Scientologists do not think they can talk to L. Ron Hubbard "directly" or in any other way. L. Ron Hubbard personally stated that he was a man as others are men. He was a much-loved friend and teacher and continues to be respected and admired.

5. No, Scientology is open for anyone and welcomes interested people. There are no secret rites, no "smoke and mirrors". The basic tenets of Scientology are covered in books and lectures available for everyone (also in public libraries).

If you have any other questions, leave me a note at scientologymyths.wordpress.com

- Louanne
39 months ago: - Is this based on a science fiction book? Not that it's bad, since some people think the bible is fiction.

No.

-Is Scientology recognized as tax exempt?

Yes.

-Do you have to give money to the church in order to advance? That doesn't seem kosher to me.

Yes, donations.

-Are you asked to raise money? That seems normal to me.

Yes, donations.

-Do they think they can talk to L. Ron Hubbard? Directly?

No.

-Is it a secret organization like the masons?

No.

Anyone got any answers or opinions?

Sure. RTFM: scientology.org
39 months ago: Scientology is not a pyramid scheme in the traditional sense. In a pyramid scheme, even the middle pyramid people are making money. In Scientology, all of the money goes to the stop.

Scientology is closer to a "Gold brick scheme" - where you sell something to a customer of a set value when it actually has little or not value at all. The name is derived from people who sold fake gold bricks, obviously.

In Scientology, you pay for everything. You pay for your own books, you pay for your courses, you pay for your auditing, , you pay to go aboard their cruise ship, which is the only way you can reach the "upper levels" of their learning (i.e. the stuff about aliens), and then on top of that you're asked to donate money or possibly re-buy books when new additions come out.

The value Scientologists claim their courses have is that you will become a better person. They claim their courses will enable you to achieve a state of "clear" where you do not get sick, you can fly, you have a perfect IQ, and you can move things with your mind, etc. In the 50 years since Dianetics was published, no one has ever become "clear." No Scientologist can fly. The claims are more than unscientific - they're downright lies. The excuse given is that you need to take more courses, which cost money. A high level auditing session with an e-meter, which they say has medical value but was proven to have none by actual scientists, can cost $1000 or more. The thing that makes it a cult is that the victim is unable to see the fraud; Scientology has a very sophisticated system of keeping people going until their money runs out, at which point you join the Sea Org, where your courses and auditing are free, but you have to live in their orgs, work for them full time, and you make about $50 a week.
For more on the experiences within the cult, go to:
www.exscientologykids.com
39 months ago: There are two elements. L. Ron Hubbard originated the ideas that comprise Dianetics and Scientology. The body of work is about 35,000,000 words. He donated his work to the Church he founded. So you have the philosophy, and you have the organization (it runs itself from a part of the 35,000,000 words). No, it is not based on science fiction, although he spontaneous made up some examples to illustrate points, as he wrote and lectured.
His philosophy talks about the spirit and is, therefore religious. Basically it is stuff you can know about your spirituality, although some people might argue you can't know anything about the spirit. Countries treat religious differently. In the USA, donations to Scientology are tax exempt.
He died in 1986. Can the dead be talked with? Well, good luck.
Secrets: There is almost nothing secret about any of it. 35,000,000 published words are available to anyone, anytime, for a reasonable purchase price. In addition, there is a tiny sliver of stuff that Hubbard wrote that the Church refuses to publish. The Church says you need to understand a lot of stuff before reading any of the unpublished stuff. This insures it is available to you as Hubbard meant it to be. Critics make large of this small amount of unpublished "secret" stuff.
I assure you that the full information of the OT levels are not available except through Churches of Scientology, no matter what any website, anywhere, tells you. Calculus won't make sense to a person who only understands arithmetic and the OT levels won't make sense to a person who isn't Clear, and doesn't have all of the level and doesn't get to assimilate the level as Hubbard presented it. There is a good deal of specialized jargon to it and that jargon must be understood for the OT levels to be of any value to you. It starts basically and there are an amazing number of new concepts and those require specialized jargon.
39 months ago: The questions was "Do you have to pay money to the church in order to advance?" and "Is it a secret organization like the masons?"

In spite of the Scientologists here who are skirting the real issues:

YES you have to pay. These "donations" are not donations in the traditional sense. If you don't pay the fee requested, you don't get auditing or coursework.

NO it's not a secret organization per se, but YES, the higher levels of Scientology are supposed to be secret. The OT materials that have leaked have been authenticated by several ex-Scientologists, so Nicholas' claim is doubtful. Also, the OT levels are far more expensive than working through the "outer" level of going clear - an OT will pay several hundred thousand dollars before he completes OT VIII (currently the highest OT level available, though OT IX and X have been promised for years). Considering the sheer expense of the program, the Church of Scientology also "makes large of this small aount of unpublished 'secret' stuff."
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Yes to all of the above. No doubt, no question; with the possible exception perhaps the talking to Hubbard part. Though if one considers that an Operating Thetan of the highest "calibre" (bull****) has control over matter, energy, space, and time (acronymically know in their secret language - THINK MASONS - MEST), I supposed even though "LRH has shed his "MEST Body" and transliterated to "Target 2 in order to continue his research," then it would seem perfectly conceivable that Tom Cruise makes his decisions by simply either moving time backward to a point where Hubbard was alive to chat with, or in the alternative he also could shuck his "MEST Body" and himself "exteriorize."

Does that about answer your questions?
39 months ago: Content Removed by RantRave Admin
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Translation of above by Terryeo...

"Trust us and PAY us $400,000 and a lifetime of servitude and I promise you there is a REALLY BIG PAYOFF IN THE END that makes it all so very worthwhile."

Comments on this point welcome.
Kevin Gage
Kevin Gage
New York, NY
39 months ago: 1. Scientology was created by a "hack" sci-fi writer named L Ron Hubbard (along with the book Dianetics) which is possibly based on an early writing called 'Scientologie' written by Dr. A. Nordenholz in 1934. The idea was to create a religion (as Hubbard noted) because it would be the easiest way to "get rich".

Scientology's belief system ranges by how far advanced you are in Scientology's OT (Operating Thetan) Levels - Not every member knows about the "Xenu" space story nor are the upper levels allowed to acknowledge the existence of it.

2. The "Church of Scientology" has sued, infiltrated & stolen from the Internal Revenue Service to gain the tax exempt status of a "religion" - Only to see it revoked from them several more times over the years due to suspicion of criminal behavior. Their last attempt was in 1993 after (again) successfully suing the IRS.

3. Unlike "tithes" the one-tenth voluntary contribution to churches; Payment into any Scientology related levels or themes is mandatory & non-refundable.

You pay for everything - and if you are unable to afford certain payments, the Church of Scientology will deduct from your paychecks, drain your bank accounts, raise your credit card limit & drain it, take your home, car, property, (whatever) and suck away your life.

4. I don't know. Scientology treats Hubbard has if he was never killed by Davey Miscavige; they keep an office ready for him in most Scientology centers and I'm certain they expect Hubbard to come back.

5. There are several secrets that Scientology would not want the world to know.

It's not a secret that the Church of Scientology sued the Cult Awareness Network (C.A.N.) into bankruptcy and then took over the company just so they could hide the reality of Scientology as a cult.
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Content Removed by RantRave Admin
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
 Auburn, NY
39 months ago: Now, I have even more questions.
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Well then come sir, let us reason together. What moar would you like to know?
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
 Auburn, NY
39 months ago: Ok, more questions....

Is there a supreme being in scientology?
Is Hubbard their prophet?
Is there a scientology heaven, or do they reincarnate?
I've looked at some of the internet stuff, and even though I think of myself as intelligent, I find their message cryptic. Why aren't they more forthcoming?
Are they a militant organization? If so, why?

Start with these, I'll have more later.
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Translation of above by Terryeo...

"Trust us and PAY us $400,000 and a lifetime of servitude and I promise you there is a REALLY BIG PAYOFF IN THE END that makes it all so very worthwhile."

Comments on this point welcome.
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Oh I must say I rather like your style. I'm presuming you've been receiving a bit of spam from our Scientologically inclined mouthpiece "Terryeo?" Don't mind him / her / them, whoever they are. They only mean great harm and would gladly try desperately to figure out who you are or shut down this conversation, if only they still were capable of doing so anymore.

I'll probably not be able to answer those til tomorrow. My apologies, but I must return to the real world. If those posts quoting me and asking for discourse about Terryeo are a result of her spamming more of the same, then at least you can feel honored that you've attracted their attention.

I've been blog / comment stalked by Scientologists for more than a year now, and not once have I been offered a worthy conversation. This one makes a refreshing change.
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Oh I must say I rather like your style. I'm presuming you've been receiving a bit of spam from our Scientologically inclined mouthpiece "Terryeo?" Don't mind him / her / them, whoever they are. They only mean great harm and would gladly try desperately to figure out who you are or shut down this conversation, if only they still were capable of doing so anymore.

I'll probably not be able to answer those til tomorrow. My apologies, but I must return to the real world. If those posts quoting me and asking for discourse about Terryeo are a result of her spamming more of the same, then at least you can feel honored that you've attracted their attention.

I've been blog / comment stalked by Scientologists for more than a year now, and not once have I been offered a worthy conversation. This one makes a refreshing change.
39 months ago: 1. Scientology claims -- to the general public -- that it is compatible with all religions: i.e. we're not a religion, we're a philosopy (but to the IRS, they claim to be a religion, go figure). There is no official deity in Scientology, as it is supposedly embraces all religion. However, as a person progresses up the "Bridge", other religious practices are discouraged as "out tech". Hubbard has said "the man on the cross, there was no Christ", so compatibility with Christianity is out of the question. You can hear him say it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrMJUDkDWqc Hubbard was also know to be disparaging of other religions.

2. One could say that Hubbard is their prophet. In Scientology he is referred to as "Source".

3. Scientologists believe in reincarnation.
39 months ago: Continued:

4. They are not forthcoming about their beliefs because if you knew the whole story you'd never sign up for anything. One of the comments above (from a Scientologist) said that "The Church says you need to understand a lot of stuff before reading any of the unpublished stuff". What is really means is that your minds has to be re-trained to accept a lot of irrational precepts. Some would call this brainwashing. What Scientologists believe to be logical statements -- Psychiatrists caused 9/11 (and WWII for that matter), all prescription drugs are bad for you, etc -- most of us would dismiss as absurd.

5. They are militant about certain things: Psychiatry, prescription drugs, getting Hubbard's "study tech" into public schools, discrediting their critics. They are also very organized when it comes to getting into local political office -- it's common to have a Scientologist or two on many city councils. Also, they simply do not tolerate criticism. They consider all critics of Hubbard and his organization to be "criminals", and will use whatever information they can find to silence (and possibly destroy) anyone who opposes Scientology. They used to be very effective at this, but since the internet has spawned thousands of critics they have to choose among many whom they perceive to be the most dangerous. This is an official Church policy and it is called "Fair Game". Mark Headly just made a post about the Church's most recent attempts to fair game him, and it's pretty creepy: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/fair-gaming-marc-headley-39956/
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
 Auburn, NY
39 months ago: First of all, all religions are accepted in Amishkingland. They just have to be practiced in private. Any mingling between religion and politics, and you will face the wheel, and be turned out, sans toga. Besides, no celebrities in Amishkingland, so who will lead the services?

Now, how can scientologists get their "study tech" into public schools? If that was ok, wouldn't all religions have their doctrines in schools?

By the way, any one trying to blog-stalk me (whatever that is) better realize, I am not afraid to go to the tried and tested, "says you!" or "Oh yeah?" so be WARNED!

39 months ago: Scientology claims its "Study Tech" has made many inroads into public schools, though not in the US. Many people don't realize that Applied Scholastics is run by the Church of Scientology, and they supply schools (even public schools) with a considerable amount of educational aids and material.

Recently, another Scientology front group, Narconon, was prohibited from giving anti-drug presentations in California schools. I remember them coming to my elementary school and teaching us that drug residue is stored in our fat cells, which is why people who have used drugs have flashbacks -- of course this isn't true, and it's one of the reasons they were kick out.
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
 Auburn, NY
39 months ago: Narconon is a scientology group? I have actually heard of them. Does narconon try to get you to join scientology? I thought they treated addicts.
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
39 months ago: Well then come sir, let us reason together. What moar would you like to know?
Alex Layton
Alex Layton
 Administrator
 Puyallup, WA
39 months ago: I have two links for you. The first is a "Scientology Truth" site. It's pretty thorough and includes lots of testimonials from people who have left the cult.

http://www.xenu.net/

The second, is an episode of South Park, which pissed off Tom Cruise and caused Issac Hayes to quit the show. From what I understand, their explanation of Scientology is very accurate and they didn't even need to add jokes to make it funny.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/912
Kevin Gage
Kevin Gage
New York, NY
39 months ago: Scientology named it Narconon so people would mistake it for "Narc Anon" ... Narcotics Anonymous.
39 months ago: I tell you what i seen that episode, and like alex just said, it really doesnt need to try and poke fun at it, it does itself!
This religion (cough cough), what a frickin cult! i just can't believe it has got this far, As long as they dont start liking the music i listen too, ill be ok. Flippin idiots!!




Moneen
Moneen
South Africa, Republic of
39 months ago: I was in Scientology for a long time.
I outgrew Scientology.
I am now my own source of reference for my own spirit & mind.
Scientology is exactly what it is.
In order to find out about this a person can look into it but are expected once in to stay forver as part of their purpose.
This is up to a person who can feel or can be made to feel that they are betraying the purpose if they choose to leave Scientology.
if a person can believe this then they are truly caught into the web of the knowledge of Hubbard.
Otherwise one can like me merely leave without feeling any betrayal or remorse.
Life is greater than Scientology despite how they can believe they have thru Hubbard all of the answers to life.
I was amazed & amused after having left Scientology how Hubbard had so bull****ted about his life.
He was a pathological liar about his background but otherwise he had many could points & a very sharp mind.
Louanne
Louanne
Los Angeles, CA
39 months ago: Applied Scholastics is a secular organization that does not use Scientology doctrine or any other religious materials but provides a learning system compiled by L. Ron Hubbard, who - as I said earlier - had many qualities. There are plenty of schools using this system and none of them is "run" by the Church of Scientology. It is a common propaganda tactic to throw this all in one pot to confuse readers.
38 months ago: Who is this Louanne that is usiny my username?!?

Stop impersonating me, you impostor!
Anonymous
Anonymous
New York, NY
38 months ago: lulz.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/3403419994_6e39dbdaee.jpg

Jessica Ann Chandler, MSW
38 months ago: A relgion goal is to improve man as a spiritual being. Scientology offers many courses and books that are aimed to achieve that spiritual improvement.
Scientologists don't make the body fly... if you read any scientology book that is not the goal.
The books bought in the church bookstore have a cost. You can also read them in the public library for free.
The courses have a cost. There are some free basic courses. Sunday service is free. In it you can receive group auditing. All the events are free. The magazines etc that you receive from the church are free. Assists are given for free in the org. Ethcis counseling is free.
Note that any church needs money for buildings, clergy, electricity etc etc. It just changes the way the money is donated to the church. For example in Italy 10,000 catholic teachers teach religion in the public schools and they are paid by the italian government.
37 months ago: OMG *facepalm.

"A relgion goal is to improve man as a spiritual being."

According to Terryeo, scientology doesn't have beliefs and by insinuating that one has a spiritual being that would require beliefs. You and terryeo have different views of what scientology is. You two contradict eachother. At least the critics of scientology are pretty consistant with what they say unlike the people defending it.
37 months ago: "Scientologists don't make the body fly... if you read any scientology book that is not the goal."

Lol, thats the goal of the superpower building in clearwater florida.

BTW, lame name FrankG.

Are you a G like Gangsta'

Get creative. I'm a ranger who likes danger.
37 months ago: "The books bought in the church bookstore have a cost."

Yep, get a book, lose the rational side of your brain.
37 months ago: "The courses have a cost. There are some free basic courses."

Cuz salvation has a price tag bi tches!!!!!
37 months ago: "Ethcis counseling is free"

That would be becuase it is non-existant. What church hires Private Investigators to snoop on their critics?

Yes I know, the critics who call bomb threats, shoot at the buildings, mail fake anthrax, sodomize their building, etc. But if you know who exactly sent you the bomb threats, why fool around with a PI and simply send the cops to arrest them right away?

Also the church has a history of sending itself threats.

Post a Comment
Sign in or sign up to post a comment.
All Categories | Arts & Entertainment  |  Culture & Lifestyle  |  Economy  |  Food  |  Health  |  News & Politics  |  Offbeat  |  People  |  Products  |  Science & Technology  |  Sports  |  Travel

Frequently Asked Questions  |  Community Guidelines  |  Editorial Reviews  |  Get Paid to Post  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Use  |  Contact Us  |  Sitemap  |  Report Spam/Abuse

©2012 RantRave