Culture & Lifestyle

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Scientology and Mental Health.

Posted 35 months ago|47 comments|615 views
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Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL

Organized Scientology has a big problem with the mental health industry. We see the stars of Scientology lobbying our politician or making absurd statements on talk shows. “You don’t know the history of Psychiatry” burbles Tom Cruise on the Today Show, “I do.”

Cruise; a man who evidently knows very little about the mental health industry is simply spouting the “party line” of his chosen faith. This sentiment is echoed all over Scientology – in elaborate displays, in slick videos, pamphlets and in massed protests. All are condemning the mental health industry as an evil, world dominating cult. One stopped from its dastardly plots by the few brave “loyal officers” in Scientology. Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230 immediately comes to mind.

One of the stated goals of Scientology is to eradicate the mental health industry in every form. According to Scientology, most if not all problems in society, from drug abuse, to terrorism and wars can be traced to the evil manipulations of mental health professionals, “psyches“ as they call them. In fact, according to Scientology, Psychology and Psychiatry are the two biggest problems society faces today. They are, not simply to be reformed. They are (in Chairman David Miscavige’s words,) to be “globally obliterated.”

Why they take such a stand involves Founder L. Ron Hubbard’s original idea, Dianetics. Very briefly, Dianetics proposes that human behavior is a kind of programming learned over time in an individual’s life. For example if a person is afraid of heights it is probably due to an incident earlier in their lives. This, according to Hubbard locks in an engram , what he calls a memory into the “reactive bank” of the mind. This “engram” causes the person to react instinctively as opposed to intellectually. According to Hubbard, a person can only be cured if he or she gets Dianetics therapy.

Clearing these engrams according to Hubbard will make a person far more capable and more intelligent. Not simply more intelligent, most diseases and sickness is caused by engrams and when they are properly cleared (only by Dianetic therapy) a person will never get sick. Those that do get sick after Dianetics are simply examples of the “therapy” not being applied correctly.

It’s notable that Dianetics and by extension, Scientology is described in absolute terms of being perfect and unfailing. It is also notable that no branch of conventional medicine can be described as perfect and certainly not the field of mental health!

Naturally, since Hubbard’s Dianetics writings make many medical claims, there were complaints. When various government agencies heard the complaints they took a long hard look at what Hubbard was doing and began slapping restrictions on him. At first,Hubbard claimed that the Commies were after him (it was the 1950s after all.) Later it was the evil psychologists.

To this day, Scientology has demonized the mental health industry to absurd levels – to the point where they actually accuse the mental health industry with causing all mental illness. Whenever someone on medication does an antisocial act (such as commit suicide) a horde of Scientology believers say in effect “see SEE!? It was the evil “Psyches” that caused this person to take their own life!”

The causality of a mentally ill/depressed person committing an antisocial act because they were mentally ill/depressed is completely out of the question.

So; one stated goal of Scientology to eradicate the mental health industry in order to somehow further their goal of eliminating all mental illness. This is like wanting to eliminate heart disease by getting rid of all heart surgeons. The mental health industry did not create mental illness; it’s a response to mental illness.

Scientology belivers claim they are justified because of the horrible things (they claim) Psychology and Psychiatry have done to people. Psychiatric treatment become “sadistic forms of torture.” Methods that involve pharmacology become vast conspiracies to drug people into submission and line the pockets of drug manufacturers. It would be like our hypothetical heart surgeon haters claiming that surgeons are vile monsters because they hack into people’s chests using power tools.

According to Scientology; Psychiatrists all seem to have thick German accents and an innate desire to strap people to tables to conduct electro-shock treatments. Failing that they want to lobotomize people with ice picks. Evil Psyches want to drug small children and they desire nothing less than world domination. At least they don't hack into helpless people's chest cavities like surgeons do.

Additionally; did you know that Osama Bin Laden actually directed the events of 9/11 on the urgings of his Psychologist? Did you realize that the Jewish Holocaust of the early 1940s was orchestrated by evil psychologists? This is news to any historian but accepted cannon by many Scientology belivers.

Their feeling towards mental health professionals can be summed up by an add they distribute from time to time, the words “Great Lie #38 EXPOSED “flash up on the screen as a professor in a lab coat holds up a scale model of a human brain and screams “Man is nothing more than a brain….A BRAIN!!!!!”

They cite that Psychology is not a physical science (Like say medical arts.) Psychology is the study of behavior. Statistical behavior modeling is as close as they get to hard science in Psychology. A trained Psychologist can make educated predictions of behavior based on observation. It’s more like an art form or a skill than a hard science. Psychiatry on the other hand is the study of the actual brain tissue. Psychiatrists have to be medical doctors first.

You can think of Psychiatrists as people who work with hardware (or wetware) and Psychologists as folks who deal with the software or behavior. Psychiatry is therefore a branch of the medical field where Psychology is about behavior counseling.

This seems to be lost to Scientology whose adherents do not seem to understand the difference between the two. To Scientology it doesn’t much matter, Psychology and Psychiatry are competitors with Scientology and therefore must be eliminated. It’s really that simple!

Scientology in contrast is allegedly a “perfect” substitute for all ills even though it is not peer reviewed and it is based solely on the writings of Science Fiction author L. Ron Hubbard. Since the practices of Scientology are taken as an article of faith by its adherence they are (so they believe) justified in using whatever methods are at their disposal to (my words) “run Psyches out of society.”

Lets conveniently forget that humans are malleable and almost any kind of treatment no matter how wacky will work with some people. Dunking folks in cold water was once thought to be an effective “medical” treatment for some kinds of mental illness. That’s because it worked with some people.

One may ask, why is it a problem for Scientology to believe whatever they like? Why get bothered by an organization that chooses to attack the mental health field?
I can think of one or two reasons. One is that the mental health industry is just a convenient enemy One is that by subtle manipulation of their believer's fears, Scientology is able to get money and influence. Another reason is that Scientology does not offer a viable alternative to the mental health field.

Additionally; Scientology has a major platform other than destroying the” psyches”. Their stated goal is to “clear the planet.” That is to apply Scientology to every man, woman and child on the Earth.

In other words, they want to force Scientology on everyone.

Psychology and Psychiatry are not perfect, not by a long shot. However they are peer reviewed and evolving fields where as Scientology and Dianetics are arbitrary, unscientific, untested and static faith based systems. Scientology and Dianetics are not fields of medicine, they are at best, belief based forms of faith healing. At worst they are large confidence games that are designed to extract money out of people.

Next; Dianetics in a Nutshell.
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COMMENTS
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
35 months ago: Yes, you put it well.
35 months ago: Psychiatrists go to school and become medical doctors. This is a whole lot of effort. And then, that not being enough, they go to school and get a degree in Psychology. Now, finally, the graduate can watch people for a while and declare they have a mental disorder. Woot! Yet the state of Arizona has declared by law: "a psychiatrist or psychologist is no more qualified than any other person to give an opinion about whether a particular defendant's mental condition satisfies the legal test for insanity." And psychiatry didn't like that and it went to the Supreme Court, which found the Arizona law to be Constitutional. http://www.psychcrime.org/articles/arizonadecision.htm

For example; Purchased psychiatric testimony-at a cost of millions of dollars a year-has resulted in bizarre claims by psychiatrists such as the defense of a rapist, claiming he had "Gone with the Wind Syndrome".

Psychiatry does not have a handle on mental illness. In fact psychiatry doesn't even have the courage to call their area of expertise, "mental illness" but instead put forth the namby-pamby, "mental disorder". And "Mental Disorders" are labeled by watching the guy's behavior and not by any chemical or physical test.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: So then Terryeo, this illustrates my point exactly, you focus only on the negative aspects of Psychology simply because your belief system tells you so. You don't have the courage to look at both sides of this issue because Hubbard told you there is no other side. How pathetic!

Wen did you stop thinking for yourself Terryeo, when was the moment?
35 months ago: Scientology has the actual tests that to identify insanity. It is the propaganda of the psychiatric industry and pharmaceutical companies that keeps Scientologist experts from providing judicial findings regarding insanity.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: Is that so? Where are those tests published? Who did the peer reviews? Where are the case studies and at what universities were they done. What kind of "insanity" can your test spot?

Otherwise it's just pseudoscience.

Oh and "judicial findings?" Like in courts of law? Is that all your test for? Can't it be used to find real problems in order to help people or is it just used to put people in prison (or get them off?)
YammeringBuoy
YammeringBuoy
35 months ago: Scientology has the definitive tests on insanity.....AHAHAHAHA!!

Scientology was created by a sci-fi writer, That's the only fact here, anyone need know.
35 months ago: Ahhh, Mecca Anon, if I am able to post, even as you post, I am able to think for myself, even as you are able to think for yourself. One follows the other.

Most people think psychiatry - brain. Because a psychiatrist is a medical doctor. And psychiatrists will tell you, to treat mental disorders and get everyone behaving themselves, you just treat the brain. You treat it like you would a broken bone or a physical scratch on the skin. You apply some chemical. And the chemical brings the human body back into normal operation. And then you have normal behavior.

It is a large step to think of any other approach. But Scientology is another approach.

On one hand you can easily see that psychiatry has not emptied prisons and its modern drugs don't work as well as advertised. We still have suicides and school shootings, these are not good mental health. Psychiatry puts itself into a condition where it must justify what it does. And this is quite reasonable, considering we have an internet, today.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: Terryeo;
"On one hand you can easily see that psychiatry has not emptied prisons and its modern drugs don't work as well as advertised. We still have suicides and school shootings, these are not good mental health. Psychiatry puts itself into a condition where it must justify what it does. And this is quite reasonable, considering we have an internet, today."

Excellent, you avoid answering my questions, attack - and change the subject, how typical.

Why would you expect Psychiatry to empty prisons or stop school shootings? If you really expect them to do that, how about creating flying cars or a reliable source of fusion power?

Psychology doesn't make a bunch of wild claims like "we are going to stop all crime." Why are you comparing it with some of the things Scientology promises and doesn't deliver? You people are talking more about yourselves than Psychology don't you think?

YammeringBuoy
YammeringBuoy
35 months ago: well, technically we have flying cars, just no laws to with which to govern their use...carry on.

The only thing scientology empties, is money from peoples pockets.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: I was just evoking one straw-man argument to another.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
35 months ago: Terryeo, would you like to tell people about Xenu and his Galactic Overlords? If you don't know about them, you will eventually find that L.Ron says that the souls of dead aliens, killed by Xenu, are clinging to our bodies and causing our mental health problems. Please Terryeo, come clean on the matter.

Certainly, psychiatry is far from a perfect science but it is the best we have. L.Ron Hubbard claims that Dianetics is a perfect science, but Dianetics is just something that he made up and is today being sold to misguided people.
35 months ago: YammeringBuoy, you should have posted the link!

Flying cars can be seen at...watch the video...

http://www.rantrave.com/Rave/Go-Dodge-Bring-out-your-Skycar-in-2009.aspx
This is some real funny (I'll do the **** so RR doesn't have to) SHEET.
35 months ago: "You treat [the brain] like you would a broken bone or a physical scratch on the skin"
-Terryeo

Shows what you know. You treat lacerations and broken or fractured bones with bandages, splints, casts, etc. If your bipolor, you don't stick a bandaid on your brain.

"But drugs are like a bandaid"

No, not really. You can take a bandaid off after several days and be fine. If you go off of your antidrepessants after several weeks you will become depressed again and possibly harm or kill yourself.

Im sure that somebody is going to try and make the arguement that "see, that's proof psychiatry doesn't work." The purpose of these medications sometimes is to help keep someone stable and let them live a functioning life. If this medication allows someone like a mother who has problems raise her kids normally, then the drugs are doing their job.
35 months ago: "But Scientology is another approach"
-Terryeo

Read books and listen to audio tapes made by a science fiction writer and take crude lie detector tests along with vitamins.

Sounds fullproof.
35 months ago: "On one hand you can easily see that psychiatry has not emptied prisons and its modern drugs don't work as well as advertised"
-Terryeo

Since when was psychiatry's main goal been to reform the American justice system? Are you sure that your talking about psychiatry right now.

Becuase if I wanted too, i could make the same exact argument against scientology.

"On one hand you can easily see that scientology has not stopped war and its modern tech don't work as well as advertised"

There Terryeo, an argument just as logical as your's. Sure, scientology never said it would stop war, but you can still conclude that it doesn't work since war still exists, am I right?
35 months ago: "We still have suicides and school shootings, these are not good mental health."

Scientology advertises two things. First, that it is filled with the most ethical people in the world. Second, that it is virtually everywhere (source: http://www.bignews.biz/?id=803434&keys=scientology-volunteer-hubbard-problems).

Well if the most ethical people are now virtually everywhere, then why is there still crime, school shootings, filled prisons, suicides war, etc? If you were truly the most ethical people and truly everywhere, wouldn't these problems have disappeared by now?

Why the hell are you douchebags holding out on us?
35 months ago: "It is the propaganda of the psychiatric industry and pharmaceutical companies that keeps Scientologist experts from providing judicial findings regarding insanity."

I'll believe you when you (or anybody else for that matter) show an example of proof.
35 months ago: Dangerranger, all you have to do is refer to the Scientology data for all the proof that anyone could possibly need - unless they are willfully unheeding.

You might not be able to even imagine just how bad the world would be without Scientology. If you weren't alive before Scientology was introduced and haven't accessed your past lives, you probably wouldn't know,

The world without Scientology was one of endless horror, and would still be, if not for L Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige. World leaders know this.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: Jack you have little understanding of history do you? The world is not a better place because of Scientology, it's a better place despite Scientology.

For example, your volunteer minister program,it helps "millions" at disaster areas right? I've met them, they are well meaning good people for the most part. They don't seem to know very much about counseling or disaster relief. They can distribute food, so long as the National Gard brings it. They are very good at trying to recrute people into Scientology.

This is the best you have to offer! Your crime programs don't work, your drug programs don't work, your education system puts out substandard students who almost never go on to collage. Your training produces people who are less able to cope with the real world and are not productive citizens.

Add to this wide spread reports of abuse, violence and criminal activity within Scientology let alone the way you treat critics and the people who find a way to escape Scientology. The people coming out all tell the same story, of a paranoid, abusive system that is only interested in extracting money.

The world is starting to understand Jack. What to you think will happen in the next year, the next ten years, the next fifty years?

35 months ago: Scientology uses a different approach to mental health. It considers, as Christianity and Islam consider, the individual is something more than merely a human body. Then, as religions do, addresses itself to the individual. Rather than psychiatry's path that concentrates on pumping chemicals into a human body to arriving at a chemically perfect ideal. Religion addresses the individual and his free will and this is quite a different than psychiatry.

Which works, religion or psychiatry? I point out, problems exist with psychiatry and the industry that drives it, Big Pharama. These people have poor ethics.
YammeringBuoy
YammeringBuoy
35 months ago: Wow scientology is NUTS, you guys have bought a boat-load of fake crab at King crab prices! yeah that's somethin' to believe in..>pfft<, it gets more ridiculous with every post.

First WHERE'S the proof of these aliens? attached or otherwise.
We'll move onto other questions once this evidence has been verified and established.
Now...the flying cars. :)
Nice viddy Cypress :D

http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/aviation_space/

The laws or glitches involved:3. These violate the laws of the FAA. It's against the law, for example, to take off or land from a public road. So much for the touted "quick hop" scenario. Anything that flies has to operate fully licensed and according to airspace rules, which include minimum altitudes unless you're taking off or landing at a real airport. There's weather, power lines, weight-and-balance issues that experienced pilots sweat over in light-weight, carefully designed aircraft. The flying scenarios people imagine are all against the law. The "flying car" concept loses its luster once you realize that you can only legally take off and land from airports or approved private runways; that you must be an experienced licensed pilots certificated and current to fly this kind of exotic aircraft; that before you fly, you've got to check the weather, file a flight plan, make contact with and get clearance from air traffic control and do all the things pilots in real airplanes have to do. There simply will be no hopping over traffic.
And finally for more info go here, to this Google search...http://www.google.com/search?q=laws+on+flying+cars&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago:
Terryeo sez;
Which works, religion or psychiatry? I point out, problems exist with psychiatry and the industry that drives it, Big Pharama. These people have poor ethics.

So religion, psychiatry and "Big Pharma" are imperfect. Big news fellow! They know that! Some people in those fields are working to improve them. They all work, even Scientology "works " a little bit. But Scientology is not a cure all and does not work for very many people.

Scientology is also imperfect, the difference is, your leaders have proclaimed that nothing can be done to improve Scientology so you people keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: Terryeo: "Which works, religion or psychiatry?" This suggests they are mutually exclusive. I know 2 Christian Psychiatrists & 1 Islamic Psychiatrist, obviously they don't see any conflict of interest. The answer is, they both can but there are problems with both.

Although most main stream religions are fairly enlightened these days with respect to science I was somewhat dismayed only last weekend to have a friend tell me their 20 year old sister's personality disorder was attributed to the sins of her parents by the local baptist church she attended (her parents allowed her to go by the way).

A good religious group can provide comfort and structure to those who need it. It can also provide a positive role model too. Unfortunately even within adherents to the main stream religions there are many examples of bad religious groups who are at best misguided and at worst down right exploitative.

A psychiatrist or even a medical doctor can prescribe drugs designed to address "imbalances" in the brain; although it is intuitive to assume such apparently insubstantial traits as found with personality must be down to some kind of "spirit" more and more of these traits are being demonstrated to be down to "brain wiring" and chemical imbalances. Experiments have measured chemical changes in the brain related to moods. Studies of brain damage victims report surprising and strange changes in personality, prevalent mood and behaviour.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: The problem with Scientology (one of the problems) is they don't believe the brain has much to do with personality. They think individuality and cognition reside in the thetan which could loosely be defined as "immortal spirit." This is a hook to many people who would like to find some other explanation to their identity than "it's just chemical reactions." I can understand that however if my identity were just chemical reaction, isn't that a wonderful thing all by itself?

Scientology seem to provide comfort to it's believers in that it promises default immortality and control over future lives so long as one simply adheres to Scientology principles. I don't have a problem with any of that, people can believe what they want. It's not scientific but most folks don't understand science very well anyway.

What I object to is the way Scientology abuses it's members and tries to force itself into society. If they could throw off the negative aspects of their belief (neatly summed up in KSW) I think most people would leave them alone.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: *"chemical imbalances", last para above, should read "chemical balances".

Does the spirit exist? Who knows, but there is a fair amount of self determinism in there despite brain wiring and chemical balances.

Brain wiring and chemical balances (a simplistic term i know) only give us our tendencies to behave in certain ways to given stimuli and our basic abilities to interpret the world around us; "faulty" brain wiring really can result in people smelling sounds or seeing smells. Since our personality is the sum of how we respond to those around us then our brain wiring also provides the basis for this too.

We also learn, which affects the brains wiring, through experience so although a person may be predisposed to like sweet things, if a sweet thing makes them sick they learn to avoid it. We can also learn from others too and this allows us to change how we respond to the world around us without personal experience. This flexibility is also what makes the brain vulnerable to brain washing.

So, psychiatry is all about trying to address problems people have by changing the chemical balances in their brains and often this works very well; especially for those who suffer from illnesses like schizophrenia disorders (marked by a deterioration of up to 25% of brain cells as the illness progresses) as these people would otherwise be confined to asylums, in conditions not unlike those of an introspection run down.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: Of course there is no direct evidence that the spirit exists or that it persists outside the life of the host body. Some people have an unreasoning fear of these two facts and this drives them towards religion to get explanations.

Hubbard made a bunch of declarations which sound fine and nice but don't have any more evidence that they are correct than John the Baptist's mother being an elderly woman when he was born. Hubbard was just talking off the top of his head and telling people what he thought they wanted to hear. He was a published fiction writer so he knew how to do this. It's really very simple when you examine it. His stance on mental health and Scientology's inane ranting on the industry are simply consequences of that.
35 months ago: That's right. Religion addresses itself to the spirit and to spiritual matters. Yep. Hence, we have the CHURCH of Scientology. What would you expect?

Why would a Church (addressing itself to the spirit) be of the least interest to people who are convinced there is no spirit, was never any spirit, can never be any spirit, etc. etc.?

Why Mecca Anon, why would you care at all? Why DeanFox, why does a group talking about "the spirit" call your attention? Why, why, why?

Christianity, Islam and other religions have addressed man's spirituality for centuries.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: Terryeo: what attracts our attention isn't the talk about "the spirit". If it were then there are thousands of different groups who deal with and talk about "the spirit" that would also have our attention and they don't. Only the organisation calling itself the church of scientology has our attention. All this talk of "the spirit" is irrelevant.

What you should be asking is why the organisation calling itself "the church of scientology" has our attention? It has our attention because the results of what it does are very bad; it has our attention because the organisation is harmful and destructive.

Here is just a small part of the truth as told by ex-members:

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/




Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: Terreyo; who is paraphrasing the character Agent Smith from "The Matrix Revolutions."

"Why Mecca Anon, why would you care at all? Why DeanFox, why does a group talking about "the spirit" call your attention? Why, why, why?"

Why? I'll tell you Terryeo. It's really quite simple. Scientology and I are out exchange. Your organization has evil intent and poses a clear and present danger to myself, my family and my community.

Is this not reason enough?
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: Thanks Mecca Anon, I missed the paraphrasing of Agent Smith - nice touch Terryeo, my comments still stand though. :-)
35 months ago: "Why would a Church (addressing itself to the spirit) be of the least interest to people who are convinced there is no spirit, was never any spirit, can never be any spirit, etc. etc.?"

Because those people have money and the whole church's purpose to scam people out of money.
35 months ago: Well, you see, Dangerranger, you have exactly defined a line. On one side are people who are CONVINCED there is no spirit. On the other side are people who thing there might be. And we find the freedom to worship as we wish, written in Constitutions and guaranteed by Courts of Law.

So, you do as you wish. But the whole population supports your right to do so. And, on the other side of the line you have defined, people may likewise, do as they wish. After all, the line defines a way of thinking. All it really is about, is thought. People are pretty likely going to think as they want, no matter what a Constitution says or what Courts of law say. We don't have any "thought police", some people are going to think there might be some spiritual aspect to man.

So, it would be nice if you would clean up your language a little, do you know what I mean, Dangerranger?
35 months ago: "And we find the freedom to worship as we wish, written in Constitutions and guaranteed by Courts of Law."

You also find that an individual's right to practice religion is not protected when those practices are harmful or deprive others of their rights. For example, you can not make ritualistic sacrifices of animals due to health concerns. Just because it's "part of your religion" doesn't mean the government has to allow you to do it.
35 months ago: I understand, you are protecting yourself and others from animal sacrifices.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: Terryeo: what Anonymous Voice is making reference to is the fact that the organisation calling itself the church of scientology tries to use religion as a cover for its harmful practices.

The accusations of protesters include: institutionalised child abuse; wide spread disregard for labour laws; extortion; illegal detention; criminal neglect of vulnerable people; fraud; repeated acts of perjury (by David Miscavige and other senior members acting on behalf of the organisation); organised crime; illegal practice of medicine.

To all these charges it repeatedly throws up the notion that it is a religion, presuming this should convey some protection from investigation.

In recent days we have seen your organisation admit to practicing of "overboarding", something previously strenuously denied, while trying to frame it as "ecclesiastical" justice with towels; warm water and a life guard being present.

We've also heard the OT III texts (Xenu story) confirmed by Tommy Davis as being part of the upper teachings of the church, while at the same time attempting to frame even just asking about it as a "religious hate crime".

Your organisation is starting to admit the things it has been accused of, but it is floundering in attempting to justify them as religious practices and so protected by the Constitution, at least in the USA.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: The Constitution was not intended to protect organisations from investigation, yet your organisation claims to be a church and repeatedly uses the religious angel as a defence against charges of malpractice.

Your organisation attempted to brand the trials in France as "heresy trials", demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the word. This was dismissed immediately because the trials were to determine if crime had taken place, which has nothing to do with religion. Indeed this rather poor attempt to introduce confusion was neutralised quite effectively.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: Terryeo: "Ahhh, Mecca Anon, if I am able to post, even as you post, I am able to think for myself, even as you are able to think for yourself. One follows the other."

Interesting, one of the many entreaties of the organisation calling itself the church of scientology to protesters was that they should "think for themselves". Nice to see Terryeo acknowledge that Mecca Anon is thinking for himself.

I noticed you failed to address the point I made that the only organisation attracting the attention of the protesters called Anonymous is the one calling itself the church of scientology. A point made in answer to one of your previous statements trying to suggest the protests were about religion. "Why DeanFox, why does a group talking about "the spirit" call your attention?"

Logically in failing to come up with a reasoned response to this point you must see that religion has nothing to do with our protests. (Tip: there isn't a reasoned response and confusion technique doesn't work on me)

You may notice however that some protesters poke fun at the high level stuff (OT 3 and the Xenu story especially). This is mainly caused by your organisations attempts to hide this from members until they are suitably indoctrinated in to accepting it. Making fun of it is part of the inoculation process; by pre-exposing people we hope to immunize them, seems to work quite well.

Incidentally Hubbard use to like to "push" what he could get people to believe for his own amusement. Have to admire the old fox for some things.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: "Scientology uses a different approach to mental health". Correct, Scientology uses Dianetics to address mental health.

The problem is that the organisation indoctrinates members that Dianetics is the only solution, that the world would be a better place if only everyone used Dianetics (- the 2% who would be disposed of) and if Psychiatry was obliterated on a global scale.

Sure Psychiatry has failed to empty the prisons but then it was never expected to. It has certainly reduced the number of people institutionalised in asylums.

Another problem with the dogmatic beliefs indoctrinated in to members is their total rejection of psychiatry and much of the hard science it is based on.

Every time a member withdraws their child from the psychiatric medication they were on and that child kills or harms either the family or themselves or both the organisation immediately turns around and says we always said they should get proper medical care (just not a psychiatrist). We never told them to stop giving them the medication.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: When Kaja Ballo committed suicide in May 2008 holding the results of the personality test she'd been given by the organisation calling itself the church of scientology not 2 hours before they said "oh no it wasn't us, the test said she was disturbed". And yet when a child commits suicide after seeing a psychiatrist the organisation is most insistent it was the psychiatrist that made it happen.

When Steve Brackett, long time member of the organisation & OT V, leaped to his death from the Highway 1 Bixby Bridge on the Big Sur Coast on June 9th 2009, the organisation never acknowledged that their repeated reg'ing of him for money had resulted in him being unable to recover from a down turn in the economy. Nor did they admit to botching the handling of his case, by simply demanded more money from him for more auditing. All they did was release a shore story that he'd died from a head on impact - a sick joke under the circumstances.

Sadly these are just 2 examples involving the application of Dianetics by the organisation calling itself the church of scientology. Psychiatry isn't perfect but Dianetics shouldn't be throwing stones when it lives in glass house of its own making.
35 months ago: DeanFox says: "Scientology uses a different approach to mental health". Correct, Scientology uses Dianetics to address mental health.

But no. Dianetics addresses an individual's mind, and especially memories in recall, memories of a negative sort. When a person is able to review and re-evaluate the significance of a past trauma, his attention is freed.

Scientology, on the other hand, doesn't address the mind. It addresses the individual himself.

Now, I understand perfectly. DeanFox and other critics will insist, if an individual is not his body. Then he must be his mind and there is no individualit that is neither body or mind. Nonetheless, Scientology doesn't address itself to the body, nor to the mind. It address the individual himself. It postulates and operates on the assumption that an individual is a spirit, not a body and not a mind. But the individual uses both his body and his mind.

As usual on these Rants, I find myself attempting to point out the untrue, false data. Here, DeanFox has stated a falsehood as an assumption, and built critical statements from it. And I've attempted to correct that falseness.
DeanFox
DeanFox
England
35 months ago: Terryeo: wow, you seem like a different person. I am oncee again impressed with an apparently well formed argument. Well done sir.

2nd paragraph: "But no" - is followed by a definition of what dianetics does which is in essence another approach to mental health. Sigmund Fraud's early theories on mental health (psychiatry) advocated the same solution - reveal, review and re-evaluate past trauma as a means to address current mental health issues.

Scientology is separate from dianetics, nothing wrong with that, Scientology has a wider scope than dianetics, as you say scientology employs dianetics (which is a different approach to mental health). No argument there.

4th paragraph: you seem to get a bit confused with yourself here, which is odd in an explanation of perfect understanding. Okay I really shouldn't criticise grammar since I am far from perfect in that area myself. No matter, as a critic I do NOT insist that an individual is either body or mind or both but not spirit; this is what you appear to suggest. I do NOT deny spirit.

Last paragraph. Given the above none of your statements lead to this conclusion. You have assumed I insist on things I do not. You have assumed I do not have a concept of spirit when I do.

You have assumed I have stated falsehoods when I have not. You have attempted to correct falseness that does not exist in your above statement. So assume my critical statements are based on falsehoods when they are not.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: What Terryeo happens to be doing is making a false assumption, then building upon it. Sound familiar? It should! They instruct people to do that in scientology.

You mocked it up.
35 months ago: I have indeed assumed that DeanFox doesn't consider an individual to be a spirit, motivating a human body. Yes. Of course, possible I'm mistaken about that. Oh hum.

Yep, I mocked it up, yep, yep. That's what I have assumed, yep.

Here is another assumption. Man (meaning individual people, individually) is basically good .. meaning he would rather help other people become better, improve their life, enjoy life a little more.

From this view, Cities are built because one fellow collects garbage (helping his fellows get rid of that smelly stuff) and farmers sell their produce (helping their fellows by freeing them up from a daily grind of gathering food). Man is basically good, do you see? Thus we can have cities.
35 months ago: "Here is another assumption."

When you assume, you make an **** of you and me.
35 months ago: You know, Dangerranger, or Gerad, it sound very much like you believe the author of this article when he says:

"In other words, they want to force Scientology on everyone. "

Nothing could be further from the truth. Scientology's useful product is awareness. This can not be forced, it is a self-achievement.
Mecca  Anon
Mecca Anon
Clearwater, FL
35 months ago: Teryyeo;
You know, Dangerranger, or Gerad, it sound very much like you believe the author of this article when he says:

"In other words, they want to force Scientology on everyone. "

Nothing could be further from the truth. Scientology's useful product is awareness. This can not be forced, it is a self-achievement.

So spake your leader and guru....

"We're not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn't cute or something to do for lack of something better.

The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology.

This is a deadly serious activity. And if we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.

Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past. Don't muff it now because it seems unpleasant or unsocial....

(His signature)

L. RON HUBBARD®
FOUNDER
Adopted as official
Church policy by
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
INTERNATIONAL

So tell me again how Scientology doesn't really want to force their beliefs down my throat? This is not only policy, you must read and sign this we each time you take a course. You read and sign a document stating that it is Scientology's policy to force Hubbard tech on the entire world, except for the 2% that refuse, those you simply "eliminate them without sorrow."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_Scientology_Working


"«The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered.»"

— L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival, p. 170
35 months ago: "You know, Dangerranger, or Gerad, it sound very much like you believe the author of this article when he says"

Again, when you assume you make an **** of you and me.

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