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Scientology, Christianity, Whatever.

Posted 35 months ago|33 comments|576 views
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TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
Basically, i have decided to hop on the band wagon of complaining about Scientology, and for that matter religion in general. This whole mess is basically a huge joke.

First, religion is a business, they play on our hopes and fears, and they take your money. I'm no fancy pants Bible quoter, but i know that if Jesus were here today, you would all be damned in his book.

So, here's my criticism:

Scientology: There have been a few screaming matches about Scientology on RantRave recently, so I figured I'd address it first. Basically, these people are being scammed. You pay a ton of money to be taught a bunch of crap you could probably learn by sitting in a corner and thinking really hard. Again, these people are in the process of making money, think about it!

Christianity: Also a big business, nope, they didn't get a bailout, but have you ever seen the vatican? or a church for that matter? They are huge and lavish (well, many are), they send around a collection thing and they take your money, they sponsor programs (again, they do some good) but also take your money.

Religion has been a huge problem in our lives for thousands of years, I'm not saying remove religion, I am a Catholic! But Siempre Solo put it best:

"That is why I believe we must start with something more basic than the bible and that is human nature. Jesus himself practiced this when he fed the multitudes and healed the sick and told parables that spoke to the human condition. Everybody gets hungry and sick. Everybody understand the basic good that can come of helping a stranger in need. We Christians tend to look at God’s word as common knowledge because we live in a Christian country. But the fact is most people are severely lacking in basic biblical knowledge. And many churches sprout up with built in misconceptions and erroneous teachings based on errors long held sacred.

So before we can even pick up a bible to say to a neighbor in need. “Here let me help!” It is important to bring up our common values and needs so that we know which direction to take from there" (Cite 1)

What people need to understand is WE ARE ALL HUMAN, we were all born, we all have suffering in our lives. We should be coming together in harmony, not preaching which religion is better. We need to stick together, because no one will find inner peace, or salvation (insert what you want here) if you go around bashing other peoples' ideals and beliefs.

Or, if you religion tells you to bash other peoples' beliefs (most I'm sure have it somewhere) IGNORE IT. You shouldn't be wasting your time trying to convince anyone of anything, we all hold common moral standards somewhere in our being, let that be our connection.

Then we can worry about the man upstairs...

____________
(Cite 1) RantRave: http://rantrave.com/Rave/JEHOVAHS-WITNESS-MORMON-SCIENTOLOGY-2.aspx

WARNING: This post is not for people who cannot handle RATIONAL debate. Bible quoters and such are strongly encouraged to give up. This is not trying to bash your religion, it's bashing ALL religion as it sits now. Martin Luther, Christ, They would all be disgusted with they way you people do things.

I'll say it again, do not grandstand on this thread, be polite. If you really need guidance on how to do that: http://rantrave.com/Rave/RantRave-Code-of-Conduct-Proposed.aspx (Courtesy of Coloranter Raver).

Cheers!

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35 months ago: When it comes to money, I think small Christain Churches are not at fault. When people are asked to donate in small churches, you can see where the money goes pretty clearly. In bigger churches though, their are lots of costs to pay like morning coffee and doughnuts, or property fees etc, so the need for money is usually greater and becuase of the size, its harder to follow the money. So to me, in general, money is less of an issue in smaller churches than larger ones. Also, in christian churches (or at least protestant ones), more times than not you do not have to worry about church leaders dipping their hands into their parishioners donations.
In Scientology, i think a lot of critics are offendedof how they sell their religion and higher ups profit off of it. To go to heavan as a christian, its free, if you do not want to, you do not have to give donations. However in scientology, if you want to save yourself, you have to buy their classes. Salvation should not have a price tag attatched to it.

BTW, good Rant.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: Thanks,

I have to say, i agree with your point about Christianity. Although the Vatican always gets a piece of the pie in Catholicism. I Should've thought about how you don't have to give if you cannot (or don't want to).

As for Scientology, i have to say, i don't see the point (for the reasons above, and the one you pointed out).

The main idea was just to show that you don't need religion per se to go to heaven. You don't need a church in this age of literacy to read the teachings of what ever religion you are (or interpret), you can preach in your closet for all god cares (unless your a Scientologist, and then you need to fork over some cash first).
35 months ago: You are correct, you do not need to go to church to go to heaven. I myself am a christian. I like to go to church becuase I get to learn lessons from the Bible that i would not learn if I stayed home. Church keeps me more active in the religion and it is a good place too to socialize. So possibly, smaller, community based organizations are better than larger based organizations becuase they connect on a more personal level. However, that is my own personal persepective and it could be totally different for other people.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
35 months ago: I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Everyone, especially the religious should see Bill Maher's Religulous. He basically suggests if we abandoned all organized religion and just respected each other instead, we might actually have a chance at survival.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: Thanks Siempre, great words!

Coloranter, i have yet to watch it, but it's on my list!
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: Oh goodie, Eddie Izzard cracks me up!
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: Siempre:

1. Put it on my suggestions list:http://rantrave.com/Rant/RantRave-The-Change-We-Need.aspx

2. Hey i love when people pick apart other peoples' beliefs. It's great to watch them squirm (is that too mean?).
35 months ago: .One thing I feel you hit on Legend though in a round about way is that to many Christians tend to think it is all about them. I say this with full acknowledgement that I have little doubt I am guilty of it at times myself. This however I feel is where people see a side of Christianity that seems to go against the grain of what Christ teaches and therefore can taint its appearance for those looking at it from a distance.
35 months ago: Many people don't care about $cientology---but they should.
It's not a religion---read the history of Dianetics. Hubbard wanted to be accepted by the medical and scientific communities when he published Dianetics. Neither community embraced him. In fact, he was thoroughly discredited. He needed money. He wanted tax exemption. How do to that? Become a religion.
The Supreme Court of the United States declared $cientology is NOT a religion. (Hernandez v. The commissioner of the IRS.) Justice Marshall read the statement.
$cientology hired private investigators to delve into the lives of IRS employees.
After digging for a couple of years, this is what happened: the cult "enjoys" an 80% "religious" tax exemption that no other religion in America can use. The cult blackmailed their way into that exemption.
Are you saying to yourself, "That can't be true..."???
Would it surprise you to know that $cientology is guilty of the largest espionage infiltration of the government of the United State in the history of this country? So, an organization guilty of the largest espionage infiltration in the history of our country now has a "religious" tax exemption that no other religion in our country is allowed to use: 80% on everything they do. EIGHTY PERCENT.
It's not a religion: it's organized crime.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: KillaHarlot, although you make an interesting point, you aren't citing sources, so even if i want to believe your assertions a cannot.

Where did the information come from?
35 months ago: TheLegendTomWing

Google Operation Snow White to find out more about scientology infiltrating the US government and how Hubbard let his wife take the fall for him while he fled.

What kind of "church" or "religion" has:
-Its own Faux Navy called the Sea Org whose members have signed billion, yes billion, year contracts and are paid less than $50.00 a week after signing illigal employment contracts? And forces its female members to either have abortions or leave their friends and family behind(google for the Marc and Claire Headley lawsuits just recently filed in CA).
-Has its own secret police called OSA - The Office of Special Affairs - that does every thing in its power to harass and destroy critcs and those leaving scientology who won't go quietly. Google scientology's Fair Game Policy - they'll tell you that LRon Hubbard cancelled this but its very much in practice today. Google Paulette Cooper and Operation Freakout.
-Has its own re-education camp called the RPF at their Gold Base in Hemet, CA and their Big Blue building in LA, CA where scientologists who want to leave the cult or ask those pesky hard questions of scientology are forced to work in labor camps. Google Hawkins eye opening blog "Counterfeit Dreams" for a first hand account of abuses that occur within this "religion".
-What kind of "church" needs their own Celebrity Centers? LRon Hubbard knew that the public will follow celebrities and these celebrities are given a false idea of what really happens in scientology and become shills for this cult. See Tom Cruise - need I say more?

This is but the tip of the iceburg.

dianetics/scientology is a trap - stay free
35 months ago: KillaHarlot should have included his/her source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: I just finished Religulous Coloranter, and i have to say it supplements this post very well.

Everyone Else: I am not attacking religions specifically, just religion in general. Hence the warning on the post.
Frederick
Frederick
Canada
35 months ago: I really don't disagree with anything you have said. I think though, when discussing scientology, it is important to note the differences between it and other religions, as opposed to stressing the similarities.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: I do agree that Scientology in this day and age is worse than most, but all religions had bad raps at some point or another.

For example, the Spanish Inquisition had many more issues over it's lifetime than cadavers in Scientology.

The main point I really wanted to stress is that all religion is bad, and you really have to take it for what it is, not what people do in it. Because, inherently, all religion is flawed since it is run by man. You just have to look past that and see that salvation can probably be achieved in a less gruesome way (I mean, if you believe there is a salvation to be achieved in the first place).

Cheers
35 months ago: A religion is an organized structure to practice and propagate the teachings of a spiritual path. Religions, being composed of human beings, are as prone to corruption as any gathering of human beings is. Corruption in government does not mean that the rule of law is inherently unsound; corruption in religion does not mean that the spiritual path is inherently unsound.

At the heart of every spiritual path is the surrender of the ego to the infinite.

At the heart of Scientology is the surrender of the infinite to the ego.

This is why Scientology is not a religion.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
35 months ago: Well, other then you blatant attack on a specific religion, you have some great points Ultrapoet! I like that you make the distinction between corrupted religions doesn't necessarily mean corrupted individuals. Nice!
35 months ago: I didn't make a blatant attack on a specific religion. I made a blatant attack on Scientology. There's a difference.

Calling something a religion does not magically make it one any more than putting a paper crown on a five-year-old and calling her a princess makes her royalty.
35 months ago: I was raised Southern Baptist. The first time I went to Sunday School, the teacher gave me a New Testament Bible. If I had some change to give on Sunday morning or if I didn't have money, I still got to go to church. You can be saved and baptized and your salvation costs nothing.
I can't imagine being a $cientologist and never being able to afford the amount of money that they charge you for your "salvation". It can cost up to $375,000.00 to reach the highest levels in the cult. Can you imagine working your whole adult life in the Sea Organization and taking your courses and auditing as you can pay for it. Then if you are fortunate enough to stay healthy enough to live to be a senior citizen after a lifetime of no medical or dental care---you realize you are going to die and never achieve "salvation".
This cult cares nothing for it's members from the womb to the grave. You are nothing more than a meat body and when you can no longer fork over money or be a slave then you are out.
There is nothing good about $cientology. Nothing.
35 months ago: One of the keen observation that L Ron Hubbard makes is that the level of reason of a person is dependent on their emotional tone. For example if you try to reason with an angry man his level of reason will be low. Some one that is conservative will weigh things cautiously while someone who is high toned as in enthusiasm will think almost instantaneously and come up with solutions. You see this in sports and the arts. Those ranters who are in negative emotions will only reason to a point and to the limitations that their emotional tone allows.

My point? Scientology has a lot to offer and if you don't or can't get it sorry it may have something to do with your own attitude. Anonymousers check your head.
34 months ago: judyjudyjudy, $cientology is a scam. It is organized crime. Anonymous members contacted Amnesty International last year about the human trafficking abuses in $cientology. The London Offices are reviewing our information right now. The Southern Division in Atlanta, GA & the National Offices in New York City have already reviewed the information and deemed it credible enough to be passed on to the London Offices because London has more experience with HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
The cult slithers their way into poor 3rd world countries & dupes people into joining the "church" of Tom Cruise & John Travolta. They promise these poor people a better life in America: jobs, a place to live, better conditions for themselves and their children.
The reality is that after they get to America, their religious worker visas and passports are taken from them. They are separated from their children. They are subjected to a brainwashing technique that involves sleep-deprivation, starvation, & long hours of manual labor. The cult now has them. If they don't do what the cult says, they & their children are in trouble. If their children are teenagers, these kids are also put through the brainwashing technique & are used as slaves.
Most of them speak no English or broken English. They are in fear for themselves and their other family members. They are abused and watched constantly. There is no escape for these people. There is no hope for these people...UNTIL NOW.
I know that many people don't care about $cientology, but they should. This is a criminal organization that cares nothing about it's "members" from the womb to the grave.
If you don't know about the seedy underbelly of your "religion"? Perhaps it's time for you to learn about that... Go to the ex-scientology kids website and read the horror stories for yourself--if you have the guts. Then get out of the cult and help all the good people who are trying to stop this abusive organization.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
34 months ago: Okay you two, read the warning under the post....

If you're still feeling feisty, go play some "Spank the Monkey"


Cheers!
34 months ago: Why is there a divide? Because on one hand we have people who have licked the fruit and found it good. They say it cures their learning disability. They report increased income and a better enjoyment of life and many other, nice things. Where a person has, through their own efforts, improved their lives, you are hard pressed to tell them they are wrong.

But critics try, try to "save" Scientologists from improving their lives. Or use the excuse, "we are not against you, but against the organization". Such criticism is invalid on its face and founded on false, exaggerated, or misleading data.
34 months ago: Terryeo - if you are going to use biblical references then its "eat of the fruit" and not "licking" - there is no licking allowed in the bible. lol

There are many who are still in and those who have left scientology who will tell you that they suffer from just as many ailments as the general public (why do OT's continue to get sick and die?) and have not increased their income at all (in fact they are poorer for having to pay for scientology books/auditing).

I can't speak for other critics but I can tell you that I'm not trying to "save" anyone. I feel that its important for people to get all the information about scientology before they sign billion year contracts, work for under 50 cents an hour and agree to not visit with friends and family sometimes for years on end when they join the Sea Org, etc.

Why do you scientologists keep up with the "misleading data" line? There are so many court case out there involving scientology that prove beyond a doubt that there are indeed grave abuses in scientology. A critic doesn't have to spend a minute making anything up or exaggerating anything. Its all there - look it up! Even scientology lawyers have had admit to them in court or they do the deal and pay out money in damages.

If you care so much for your "religion" and feel that it truly is a wonderful thing then why don't you spend as much time trying to clean it up and work toward reforms rather than slam critics? Many religions have had to reform when followers demanded it - scientology can do the same.
34 months ago: I think it's notable that the only people who report physically measurable life improvements in Scientology, such as improved health or increased income, are current Scientologists. Former members report no such gains, although they frequently report having lied about it while inside. And no outside analysis indicates any tangible benefits whatsoever.

To be blunt, Scientology is not keeping you from getting sick, is not making you money, and is not improving your physical health. It may benefit you spiritually, and that's fine. But you absolutely positively have to stop laying claim to tangible benefits that aren't there. The world of the tangible is the world best described by scientific and logical inquiry. Claims that can't be backed up by either need to be dropped.
34 months ago: As a scientologist I believe that the key concept in the article
> What people need to understand is WE ARE ALL HUMAN, we > were all born, we all have suffering in our lives. We
> should be coming together in harmony, not preaching
> which religion is better.

is well covered in "What is Greatness" by Ron Hubbard.
http://www.freedominla.org/issue07/page18.htm
34 months ago: Yea, it does not matter what religion is better, just what religious leader is better. Thats why he linked us to an article made by a religious leader. Personally i'm pushing for Shiva.

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