Science & Technology

Rant

Save the Planet, Destroy the Economy

Posted 31 months ago|13 comments|786 views
Written by
Alex Layton
 Administrator
Puyallup, WA
The new environmental bill being shoved through congress is sure to destroy the economy of the United States. Over the weekend, it jumped from 950 pages to 1,200 pages, with major issues still being changed and edited. But, Pelosi still is planning a vote for Friday.

The supporters of the bill have said that the cap and trade bill will only cost the average household $175/year, by 2020, but it is a deceiving figure. Cap and trade, which limits the amount of CO2 emissions, is going to be rolled out in phases, meaning there will be lose restrictions right away, then become much stricter in the years to come. The figure of $175/year in 2020 is before the real restrictions kick in.

Additionally, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), which came up with the 175 figure, only examined the day-to-day costs of the program and failed to look at the broader implications that cap and trade would have on our economy. The CBO even acknowledged, in a footnote, that “the resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap.”

What does that mean? It means the $175 annual cost only figures in things such home energy costs, fuel costs, and electricity cost. You will pay $175 more to heat your house, fill up your gas tank and run your microwave. The basic idea is to get you to spend less and save more, but that will have a domino effect.

If you spend less, you buy less, meaning companies produce less, which causes prices on products to rise. Additionally, if a company produces less, it does not need as many employees, so people will lose their jobs. If a company cannot cut production, it will cost them more to run their companies, so they may find it financially benefitial to take their company out of the United States, which also results in the loss of American jobs.

This also puts the United States at a disadvantage with the rest of the world, especially countries like China and India. They’re not instituting cap and trade, which means they will be producing more for less. You can already see this in products, such as cars. You can go buy a new Kia for $10,000, or get a comparable American car for $25,000. No wonder the Big 3 failed.

Ramming this bill through congress is going to be one of the biggest mistakes of our new president’s short and horrifying career. It will cost tax payers dearly, it will handicap the US economy and it won’t have a single environmental impact. It’s only a democratic effort to make them feel good about themselves. This is the ultimate penance for the religion of environmentalism.

The Wall Street Journal summed things up nicely, I think (see the external link)…

“The reality is that cost estimates for climate legislation are as unreliable as the models predicting climate change. What comes out of the computer is a function of what politicians type in. A better indicator might be what other countries are already experiencing. Britain's Taxpayer Alliance estimates the average family there is paying nearly $1,300 a year in green taxes for carbon-cutting programs in effect only a few years.

Americans should know that those Members who vote for this climate bill are voting for what is likely to be the biggest tax in American history. Even Democrats can't repeal that reality.”

(Thank you WSJ, for all the neat stats.)
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COMMENTS
31 months ago: And... Republicans can't repeal the reality that this is the only planet we've got, and we can't screw it up. We need alternative sources of energy, and we need to stop burning dirty fuels. Case closed, end of story.

I have children. I'd like to leave them and any future grandchildren a livable planet.
31 months ago: Nuclear energy. You want to stop burning stuff, let nature heat it up for you. Alternatives will take too long to get into production and cap and trade will drive everything's price out of sight anyway.

I don't have the answer. I just think the anti-nuclear people shot us in the foot 30 years ago and they got both of our feet with one shot.
31 months ago: Environmentalism is great until your forced to eat bark off a tree because the country is bankrupt, then the natural cycle will take affect and everyone becomes aggressive carnivores again in the anarchy.
Byron Watson
Byron Watson
Petal, MS
31 months ago: Hey none none, The case is never closed till we are all dead. Or perhaps weakened by hunger to the point that any other nation can walk right in and take ours. But I guess by the time that happens, we'll be living in your Jetsons world of plenty for everyone, flying cars, and robots to take care of our every need.
Why don't you lead the way, quit buying gas, get off the grid, and wait for these environmentally friendly energy sources to come on down the pike. You can bathe in the creek, use magnifying glasses to cook your food, and ride a bicycle to work.
Paying more for energy is just going to make everything go up in price. It won't make people quit burning stuff.
Look at the plans for wood burning cars on sites like motherearth.com .
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
31 months ago: Should we let all of the nations in the world take the leed and get all of the green jobs? China is now spending twice as much as us on renewable energy research and is vowing to take the lead in green industries. Germany is already leading with solar even though they are in the Northern latitudes. We no longer have a manufacturing base, and we use to lead in innovation, but we will soon be overtaken. We should have gone with a simple Carbon tax and the revenue could have lowered your income taxes to pay for additional fuel taxes. Nuclear is way too expensive to build,costs three times as much to decommission, the fuel will lead to terrorist bombs,we still have no idea what to do with waste that stays dangerous forever, and it takes ten years to build a plant. By then both nuclear and coal will be obsolete because of new renewable technologies. If we don't take the lead on green technology we will be left in the dust and our kids will be flipping burgers forever.If you think education is expensive wait till you see how expensive ignorance is. If you think reducing CO2 is expensive wait till all of Florida is under water.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
30 months ago: You forgot in your rant that the energy bill will create 3 million new green jobs, and while it will hurt a few coal companies and make a chink in Exon Mobile's $45 billion profits (more than any industry ever!)People would be buying solar panels, insulating their houses, buying new cars that get better gas millage, and energy companies would be investing in algae farms that can make 100000 gallons of oil per acre! See: http://www.oilgae.com/algae/oil/yield/yield.html
They will be buying windmills, Sterling low temp energy sources and cheap thin film photovoltaics. See : http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/solar_energy/
hundreds of other brand new technologies that are ready right now will make Nuclear and coal obsolete. Nuclear is way too expensive, takes ten years to build, and we still haven't figured out what to do with waste or how to keep it away from terrorists. The energy bill is what is needed to stimulate the economy and make us competitive with other countries again.
30 months ago: Altruist, sounds good, when do I get my 500K from the government to purchase all that "cheap" alternative energy equipment? I may not be a typical American, I'm disabled, drawing a military pension AND a social security disability check (retired THEN I was disabled). I have more income than most citizens that work. I can't afford to buy all that stuff, a new gas stingy car and still eat, and I don't have a mortgage to fund every month. Where are the rest of the citizens of this country going to get the money to buy all this "green" energy?

3 million green jobs? Right, and that is supposed to employ how many of the 6 to 10 million that are un or under employed?

The problem with alternative energy, green energy, is that it cost more than oil based energy and until money actually filters down into the pockets of Joe Smoe and Betty Brown, the green revolution will continue to be the providence of the rich and the eccentric or big corporations that are funding their entrance into alternative energy on the backs of their poorly paid workers.

The federal government gave billions to rich corporations that didn’t need it, they could have taken that same amount of money, given it to citizens who needed it who would have paid off their debts to those same corporations and then gone out and spent more money to further support their lifestyle and thereby further stimulated the economy again (first time by paying their bills). Instead, the rich socked 99% of the billions away in offshore accounts and gave themselves bonuses and pay raises with not one iota of accountability.

30 months ago: I’m all for green energy, even have a small PV system in operation and two 4 x 8 solar water panels, it is not enough capacity and I can’t afford to buy that much capacity, just too expensive on my income, which is fixed. Those PV panels, thin film panels and all the equipment that goes with them are not cheap and neither is the stuff it takes to hook it all together (copper wire). You can expect to spend $30,000 for a basic system and I don’t know of very many “normal” people who have that kind of money just lying around. Once you get the system, you better be able to maintain it yourself too. Techs like me who can troubleshoot it and repair it are not cheap (I don’t work any more but I do still have the skills) and a system requires constant maintenance.

I think you are expecting more than will be delivered. 30 years from now is one thing, we need this to happen NOW and the prices are not down there yet, too many rich people want to get richer, faster and they hold the keys to the store.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
30 months ago: You guys have to realize that only 12% of the stimulus has been spent and already the economy is showing signs of recovery. You are correct Six that the costs are too high right now but this is like computers the efficiency is getting better and the costs are going down very quickly. Also the last time I looked the energy bill that would be helping develop this technology and provide all of these jobs is still bogged down in the senate and opposed by the republicans. Still I think that things are quickly becoming feasible. Sterling has developed low temperature power generators that can be hooked up to existing plants for cogeneration or regular hot water collectors to power a house. Sodium sulfur batteries could go in in new solar housing developments to provide microcircuits and 24 hr power, a new type of concentrating PV cell that is water cooled provides power and hot water for a combined efficiency of 80%. 5 years and most of these will be affordable.
30 months ago: By the time the stimulus reaches the common man, he will have lost everything to the rich banks and credit companies. He will have nothing but the sweat of his brow to claim as his own. In case you don't realize it, without property, and that means a house, you can't go to the bank and ask for much of a loan. Sure with a good job and credit you can get a car loan, but that won't do much for your financial picture except prove you have a car.

Many, many people are having to spend more and more of their income just to get by. That income is not growing, nothing like what the banks and credit companies are raking in. You give a bank a billion dollars and their bottom line looks real good for a while, they give each other million dollar bonuses and pat each other on the back and say "what a good job we did" when in fact all they did was convince some politicians that giving them money would fix the problem, they didn’t earn that billion, but they sure know how to make it disappear.

You give a blue collar worker (BCW) a ten dollar a month raise and his taxes go up nine ninety-nine and that is how the system works. If you really want a BCW to prosper you give him a 20% pay raise each year for five years and you hold prices and taxes down. And when I say hold prices down I mean you have to keep corporate profits down, no more double digit profit increases, no more windfalls, no more billion dollar bonus packages to stockholders, you have to keep it down to steady growth and single digits.

30 months ago: The biggest problem we have right now is the mindset in the business community that they must have ever increasing profit, not steady profit, EVER INCREASEING. They aren’t satisfied with making two or three percent, they want eight, ten, fifteen, sixty-five, or more. Most of the businesses in the world can pay the help, do research, buy supplies and pay their bills with a profit margin of less than one percent but they have taken the “pay the help” part and made that into the “give the top brass huge bonuses to hid profit” level and that has ruined their reputations with the buying public.

Take the banking industry, they charge each person who is late on a loan (or credit card) payment from $25 to $55 or more in fees each time. Multiply that by several thousand accounts out of several million and you have a nice chunk of change. It doesn’t cost that company much more than a few cents to automatically generate a letter and mail it, or if it is an annoying one, a few dollars to pay an overseas operator to select an automatically dialed phone line and pester the debtor for a payment.

That late fee could be the difference between that debtor making another payment or not when the next bill comes due, now he has two accounts that are late, one he just made an extra large payment to to catch up and the one he can’t make because of the other one he did pay. Follow me? This cascades into huge amounts and it happens all the time.
30 months ago: Why can’t those late fees be reasonable? Because someone out there is getting a bonus on how many they can charge and collect. Side note. I’ve had creditors change my due date by one or two days for the express purpose of getting a late fee out of me. Tell me that ain’t devious.

I’m way off subject so I’ll head back that way.

Everything you mentioned is in the future. None of it will be helpful to the BCW, not now and not in five years, maybe 20. None of it will be affordable to someone who is already tapped out. There isn’t an extra five or ten grand in 95% of the BCW’s budgets for these innovations, they are too busy paying their mortgages, car payments and car insurance and keeping food on the table. Those who do have extra cash may purchase a few systems, but these will be few and far between and either as a novelty or as standalone systems for a recluse.

The huge systems that go to power plants and NEW developments are not going to be used to cut the BCW’s energy costs, they are going make it cheaper on the big power grid companies to produce electricity, thereby boosting profits and bonuses. I have yet to see a single instance where a power company introduced new technology and saved themselves millions a year and at the same time reduced their rate to the public. It always comes with a rate increase, lower maybe than it would have been with conventional improvements but always higher. You want to impress a BCW with new technology, lower his monthly electric bill by 25% because of it, not 0.0001% and do it NOW.
30 months ago: I’ve looked at the Stirling site, no where on it is a system for me. If I was a huge power company they could service my needs, but I’m a homeowner (not really, hasn’t been finished and deeded) who wants a system for my house to cut my utility bills and they don’t offer one. Sure their modular system is 25KW per unit but no where did I see a price tag nor a way to buy just one. Did I miss it? They are only interested in selling dozens of them to big companies for millions of dollars from all I could gather in a quick look. I did send an email inquiring about small installations, still waiting.

Alternative energy is great, someday someone will come out with a way to make it feasible for the common man to implement in a way that won’t send him to the poor house and will cut his energy costs at the same time. I even have a start on a system, five 100W PV panels and a battery bank for storage, about enough to run a camping trailer over night. Bought it before I was disabled, hooked it all up myself because to pay someone would have made it unaffordable and I know how anyway. Still have over $4000 invested and it is as I said a small system with not much capability. Take about 10 years to pay for it if the sun shines A LOT in reduced electric bills and that is a rough estimate. Installing a whole house system would be over $30K and take 30 + years to pay for, not to mention upkeep……

I will say this about big oil (Exxon), they are the only company that has offered to reduce my debt by making larger than normal payments, they will reduce the outstanding balance on my gas card by up to $550 if I make large enough payments for the next four months, lower payments mean less reduction. No other company is willing to reduce the outstanding balance on what I own them simply because I paid a little extra each month. I’ve talked bad about them before because of the huge profit they’ve been making so now I’ve said something good about them.

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