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Purpose or Accident?

Posted 22 months ago|360 comments|4,442 views
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Huey Newton
 Administrator
Folks find all kinds of reasons to stay in abusive relationships.

Co-dependency is hell.

Who are we? Why are we here? What's wrong with the word? What are we going to do about it?

There is a big difference between seeing oneself as the crowning achievement of God's creation and seeing oneself as an accidental evolution of pond scum. Right?

There are certain things we should tolerate, but there are MANY things we should not accept.

God don't make no junk. We are not worthless and hope is not an illusion.

Hope is a Human Delusion.

There is no such thing as hope. We are a cosmic accident. There is no purpose to the universe. You are your own god. There is no right or wrong. Sex is not special and neither are you. Everything is relative. Live by your own rules and you are free. God has not spoken. The holocaust never happened. Unborn babies are non-human parasites. When you are dead you will be dead. There is no afterlife. There are no miracles. If God did exist, certainly you would not be the object of his/her love. There is no love. There is no forgiveness. You have no purpose. Nothing you do ultimately matters. Life is not sacred. Everything is profane. There is no salvation. We are all ultimately doomed. There are no absolutes, but all of the above is absolutely true.

Really?

Babies in mother's wombs are not parasites and we are not mistakes or accidents.

Argue with me if you want, but YOU lose that one. Guarantee.

Want to try it?

How do you view you? Now there's a profound question.

Thanks for reading. Be blessed.

HN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvk7nLAa1...
I'll Stay -- Funkadelic
UPDATE - 22 months ago
This whole exercise has been very amusing. It's just stupefying to me that folks would try so hard to deny the obvious. Again not for rational reasons, but for purely personal and emotional ones.

Some folks simply refuse to admit that they may be accountable to anyone or anything outside of themselves or that there may be a purpose greater than themselves that can or even should drive existence. To me, that is not only short sighted, but quite ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as denying the existence of historical figures or events because we don't like what they have taught or what they stand for. "The holocaust never happened."

I've been very generic on this post on purpose. The folks here that are fighting against biblical authority (which I never even brought up on this post) are doing so because of the overall message not because they don't believe at least a good portion of it to be the truth. Many folks simply either refuse to acknowledge or refuse to validate a standard that is on a way, way higher level than where we currently find ourselves. No one likes to be called a sinner. That's word.

On another note, it is ridiculous for anyone to say they know for a fact that there is no God just as it is ridiculous for any human being to say they know everything there is to know about God. Both positions are untenable, and ludicrous, not to mention ridiculous.

Bottom line (again): What is self-evident is that we exist and this universe is no accident. We may beg to differ on the details on the intelligence behind this creation, however to deny that there is any intelligence behind it is to deny the obvious.

UPDATE - 22 months ago
Anyone who believes that this universe was created itself or that life spontaneously generated from non-life is as RELIGIOUS as anyone on the planet whether they want to admit it or not. That's an indisputable FACT.

That belief system has got to be one of the most fairytailish scenarios of all time. All time. Hands down.

What makes many (not all) of the proponents of that particular belief system such hypocrites is that they refuse to see their position of FAITH for what it really is and then attempt to insult and denigrate the faith of others. That demonstrates a HUGE problem with insecurity and doubt on that side. Huge.

Well, I'm here to tell you, that argument has been fully DESTROYED as being scientific in origin. Nope; that's these particular folk's FAITH WALK.

They just need to fess up, otherwise they come off looking either dishonest or profoundly ignorant. Unfortunately many have too much pride and self-arrogance to even go there.

Certain folks just don't want other religious people, especially Christians, to see their views as on the same level and deserving of the same respect as their irrational self-created, abiogenic fairytale. Too bad.

People can believe what they want. That is true especially here in the USA where we have freedom of religious worship. Thank God.

If the "abiogenic" and "exploding nothing creating everything" crowd would just chill out and stop acting like their positions are truly and purely scientific instead of being based 100% on FAITH, that would go a long way for religious tolerance. Again, they just need to be honest and stop playing games about it.

In the long run, that admission will go a long, long way in mutual understanding, respect, and peaceful co-existence.

That is what we all want anyway, isn't it?

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Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
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Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJx...

Henry Rollins

People, wake up.
22 months ago: "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."" (Revelation 21:8)

...no one "slips on a banana peal" and ends up separated from God; one needs to fight their way past a loving caring sharing and forgiving God, to get there.
22 months ago: BTW, good post Bro!
22 months ago: I checked it out.
All I see is someone foaming at the mouth.

Where did all sanity go?
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22 months ago: AMEN!
You are right on the mark. Sunny
22 months ago: Unquestionably, purpose.

No doubt about it whatsoever.

The more you see, the more obvious it becomes.
22 months ago: Nice
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Definitely purpose. The odds of it being an accident are what statisticians call impossible. There are better odds of two unrelated people having identical DNA than the universe forming itself and life springing from inanimate matter.

People have been put to death on odds of 133 trillion to 1, and odds of 1 in 10 to the 40,000th concerning biogenesis don't phase the self-creation crowd. Isn't that what humanism is all about? They created themselves, retroactively.
22 months ago: Box, I like your comment.
Everything is living and for us there to explore and think about. Maybe because our minds are so vast we need these challenges. I compare a person's mind as being infinite as the universe or free like a big ocean. If we have the ability to our thinking having no limitations, then why not other things having it. Why do people put the breaks on when it comes to visualizing more and learning more of what is out there? Sunny
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Thanks, Sunny!
22 months ago: To each his own. OTB said it in his last sentence above that explains all of Christian religion, the Bible and any other argument you wish to put forth in your challenge.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: And that, as with all philosophies, is a matter of opinion. You think we created God in our image, and we think God created us in His image.

We think that you want to be free of a Creator and be a product of a self-creation process, and you think that you don't need a Creator because a 1 in 100 quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion chance combined a few chemicals together and the resulting chemical compound started living and reproducing itself.
22 months ago: Now explain who created your God. Something from nothing.......
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
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Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: The only thing that can be the ultimate origin of any material thing in time has to be eternal to it.

If not, Six please help me.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: You got it, Huey, nailed it.

"They" admit they don't know where everything came from, even the Big Fizzle had to have an origin before it. But if they have to acknowledge a being greater than themselves, or to whom they owe for their existence, they want nothing to do with it. It's only human to feel that way.
22 months ago: That was a good explanation.
22 months ago: That was a good explanation.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
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22 months ago: Brilliant!

I will always say, why should we ever be satisfied for what we know up until now? We have to continuously seek and move forward.
Time moves forward and so should we. If we stop searchng and refuse to see that everything is done so perfectly and for a purpose in nature and in ourselves, then there is reason behind it all. Intelligent minds can grasp this easily.

Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Some things are true regardless of what we believe.

Objective truth is a reality. No matter what we believe to be true, some things will always be true and other things will always be false.

Some folks can't even stand the very idea of objective truth much less admit to the fact.

The overwhelming evidence is that this universe is no accident, therefore it follows that neither are we. That should have HUGE ramifications in anyone's life that is paying attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtli...
Ben Stein and Richard Dawkins: Interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEDYr_fgc...
Dr. David Berlinski: Math and Darwinian Evolution

Regardless of what makes us comfortable, regardless of our feelings, regardless of everything we have believed up to this point in our lives, if we are not living in the light that we have been made on purpose and for a purpose we are missing the boat.

There are certain things in nature that absolutely evidence a Creator. We see glimpses that should spur us toward the eternal, not drive us ignorantly and fearfully away.

That goes back to my original premise (excluding the typo):

Who are we?
Why are we here?
What's wrong with the world?
What are we going to do about it?

How we respond to those simple yet complex questions, makes all the difference in the world.

If we want to honestly answer those questions we have to get to the root of how we see ourselves, how we value ourselves, how we value the lives of others and how we value of our very existence. It spills on to everything we touch.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/christianity_judaism.htm

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Christi...

Who are we? Why are we here? What's wrong with the word? What are we going to do about it?

I am myself, in one hand I carry a ruler and book. In my other a sword and shield. I balance my abilities of destruction with my ability of creation and have attained a balance in myself. I am both a warrior and a artisan.

I am here to do as I choose to do, any purpose I have are those I set for myself. Only I can decide what is worth doing and what purpose I wish to follow. I am free to choose however I wish to choose. I am only bound by what I have choosen to be bound by.

The world is made of conflicting people with conflicting ideals. For every grain of sand in a desert their is a way of living and ideal. Many people are not satisfied with what they have and with living a good life. Some fear there neighbors, others compete with ideological views. Many look for answers and truths but in the end only find the truth that works for them.

We are hungry, we are cold, Many choose to live in fear, others have fear thrust on them. In our fear we destroy, in our fear we refuse to listen, in our fear is where some what us kept.

The world can be fixed by simply stopping the fear and doing what is right over what benefits us as individuals. Our world produces more food then we can consume, yet many go hungry. We have land enough for everyone to have a home, yet people go without shelter. We have enough technology to solve the energy crises, synthetics to replace non renewable resources and the ability to change our environments how we see fit. We can cure crippling diseases and fatal ones, we can clone entire animals yet can not use the same technology for organ replacements to waiting children. The wrong list goes on and on and on.

What are we going to do about it? that is up to you, I am already doing what is in my power to do. I use my skills to contemplate and design projects for the benefit of the people who need me to do so. Some times I get paid for this, other times I volunteer my work (Habitat for humanity charity projects). Other times I discount my work so those who could not normally afford my services can. I donate my time and when I have extra I give to those in need. I carry my torch and light the world around me with it. Some times people join me on that walk and part ways with a light of their own. What are you doing?

22 months ago: You are doing what you are suppose to be doing.

Everyone is themselves,or should be, What works for you is good..of course.
You can't say Nethel that we hold all the answers at this point. So, we can't stop questioning and looking because we are meant to do this. It is in our blood to never stop searching for answers.

You say......."For every grain a sand in a desert". I say to be able to see the world in a grain of sand and a heaven in a wildflower".

We live in a world that makes demands on us, and we have to meet them.
That's life. I accept it, but know there is more. Sunny
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Lucky for us Sunny, this discussion isn't about questions with no answers but problems of our own making. Sure you can blame god for all that is wrong in the world, that is easy. I have yet to hear about him walk into a room and point a finger saying: That wasn't me, that was all you, now get off your collective behinds and fix it yourself. It is harder to look at yourself and say: this is my hole, I have dug this hole. It is me shoveling the dirt into it and suffocating myself.
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22 months ago: Nethel, I've always been one to know that I am responsible. That's why I say I accept life and everything it brings good or bad. I'll deal with it. I felt this way my entire life.
If I feel that God gives me an opportunity, and I ruined it and threw it away, then I'm to blame. Sometimes others can ruin it for you too, and it has nothing to do with a mistake we made. People can be savage at times and don't want to see anyone get ahead or do better or have anything good. It would then be up to me to see that it was resolved or corrected. It was my opportunity, not theirs, so I haven't lost it myself, but I have to try and regain it.

I don't think I would ever blame God for anything that happened in my life that went wrong. If I didn't make the right decisions or make the right choices, it is my fault. Marrying the wrong person knowing well enough that you are marrying for the wrong reasons. That can ruin your life. Not God's fault. But sometimes here I believe children are suppose to be born no matter who you marry. Everything that might be wrong can lead to something good.
Our success and failures depend on our choices. That's the great thing about it because we are in charge, and there are a lot of challenges. It would be very boring without these challenges.

My children follow that philosophy. When they see it is time for themselves to change or grow in life, they make their opportunities. It is amazing what I have seen during those times whether it is a new job or being educated, etc.
Yes, I agree one can dig their own hole. By taking the easy path and not wanting to work for anything but want what others have, then you did it to yourself. Some people all they do is look at what someone else has and don't work for things.
You have a happier life when you don't look for excuses for failures.
I don't know anyone who is Christion that thinks like that.

If anyone did something totally ignorant and stupid and hurt themselves or caused pain to others, then what comes from it is problems. Here God is stepping up and telling us this is your choice and you did it to yourself. I did not do it to you.
(You see at that point he does walk into the room)

Your right this isn't about questions with no answers, because it would be useless to talk about. But we all have a sense of wonderment and do question what we don't know. Everything is a mystery, and we don't have answers. Nobody does. So, life goes on with all conflicts.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Nethel – I applaud your humanitarian efforts. However, your philosophy falls way short because it starts with you.

I don't have all the answers but I know my life does not start with myself. No one's life does, many folks either have not heard it, figured it out or just don't want to believe that.

See, I know and acknowledge that I come from a Being greater than myself. Our knowledge is certainly partial at best, but we cannot plead complete ignorance. That fact that we have been specifically crafted can be gleaned or understood from simply examining the universe around us. We have been created and there is a Creator. There is no question.

Those being the facts, I therefore I use my life to glorify and magnify that Creator to the best of my ability.

My life is a gift and I use that gift to bless those I come in contact with. Compassion, time, energy resources; I understand that I do not own any of it. I am a steward of what has been entrusted to me. It is my sincerest desire to connect people to Who I understand the God of this universe to be. To help them understand that there is hope outside of themselves, that there is an infinitely intelligent, powerful and loving God who watches over them.

Therefore, when abiogenic non-sense is peddled in my sphere as irrefutable truth and human life is devaluated to the level of parasitic scum, they are going to run into the Sword. Life is too short and too precious to allow that kind of crap to go unchallenged. Our life is a gift.

I share all of this with folks out of love. Love of God, love of life and love of people.

Ultimately it is the individual's choice to check it out and find out for themselves. The only pressure anyone has is their own, because on the Last Day they will not be able to say "no one told me."
22 months ago: Well said....Sunny
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: That is fine if you want to believe that Huey, I do not share in that belief nor do I subscribe to its ideals. Everything in my life begins and ends with what is me. It is always my choice. My parents through procreation gave me life and through their teachings and examples I learned. I sought other learned individuals and learned more. My life experiences and that knowledge shapped the person I am today.

No god, no greater being involved. Your explanation is but one of many and isn't any more fact then any others because we simply do not know enough about the universe to decide one way or the other. What we do know is your religion is based on another and is a rewritten version of the base religion that itself went through a revision.

We know your religion started between 33-40 ce and became an official one of a civilization after 390ce ish. We know that your book has huge gaps and doesn't actually explain anything very well. Or can you find me a passage in the bible that explains dinosaurs? How about the time it takes light to travel a distance from another star? Or as I have had in other talks, where the ruins are of the civilizations talked about in your bible? These things are also fact much like your creator is fact to you. We can logic and faith dance until our sun burns out and neither of us will budge.

I use history and what is right in front of us, I accept that I do not know everything. As I accept myself for the person that I am. I make my own choice and set my own path in life with the guidance my elders gave me and with what I have learned. You on the other hand talk about faith and pull out a book that says so. I can recite all the history I want, the physical, real world history. Which tells me that is a book, nothing more, a collection of stories. It is also one of many books written. Because it is written in print doesn't make it true and more or any less then any other book that claims the same.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: That's a dodge.

Here's the bottom line.

If some intelligence outside of our selves created this universe that means: WE DO NOT OWN ANYTHING.

We don't own this planet, we don't own ourselves, we own NOTHING.

"Everything in my life begins and ends with what is me. It is always my choice. ….. My life experiences and that knowledge shapped the person I am today….No god, no greater being involved."

If it makes you feel better to believe there is no power greater than yourself or that you are not now nor ever will be accountable to your Maker that's your choice.

That does not change the FACT that this not our STUFF. It has been entrusted to us. We don't own anything. Many people just don't' like that idea so concoct all kinds of different ways to deny that reality or simply excuse themselves from it as if that ultimately changes anything at all.

My "religion" as you call it, starts and ends with Jesus Christ; Far from a re-write or a revision, it's a fulfillment of promise.

You don't believe Jesus rose from the dead. You do not believe He is the Savior of humankind. Ok.

There is enough evidence to prove that He is exactly who He claimed to be, that He did exactly what He set out to do. You don't believe it. Again, that is your choice and your problem not mine. I simply believe that it is a poor one.

Even if I took the time to explain or address your so-called "huge gaps", I doubt if that would change your position on Jesus Christ at this point. It doesn't matter. The information is there. I've found it. So why bother? You can find it.

Obviously you haven't either looked hard enough or honestly enough. I don't know which. Plenty of other folks in the exact same position where you are now have found it. So it's out there.

You have your own reasons for not really wanting to go there. So, you made your choice. For now.

Bottom line, as much as you scream to the contrary, you are not your own.

In time your position can change. I hope it does. You sound like a very well-meaning person and I respect the way you explain things.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Dodge? not at all you may have missed these
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianit...
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Christi...

There is no power greater then myself and no one to hold me to account but myself and the social laws in our society that I submit myself too. I take responsibility for myself and my actions. If you need a imaginary parent figure to keep you honest and a good person that is your business.

Sure it changes the fact, your implication of ownership is to that of a character written about in a book. A book copied from another religion called Judaism (Jewish religion). It actually is rewritten, go ahead and read the information in the two links. If you are so sure, a little reading about where your religion came from isn't going to hurt you is it?

I haven't looked hard enough? Ah lets see, bathatised(sp?) Anglican, my mother is very religious and so are many of my relatives. Went to Sunday school for several years but the nature of my fathers work had us move around a lot. Had many experiences and developments over my life... oh the good parts.

Meet my gay friends in high school, watched one get jumped by some Christians. I helped pull them off of him, being black and gay was a affront to god apparently. They came at me in groups later for defending my friend. It didn't end well for them, who knew that the wrath of god doesn't equal combative prowess in hand to hand. They sure learned quickly that being a force for god doesn't equal having the force of god behind you.

I was made the bad guy who instigated those fights. Good little Christians do not gang up on people in mass. Not my Johny and Suzie, the other 10-20 were just trying to save my child from a clear problematic student with a history of violence. Which was true, my public school record is filled with it. I even had a principle tell me if I touched a single student in her school I would be expelled with no questions asked.

You just have to ignore the 5 to 1, 10 to 1, 20 to 1 and student was seen by supervision staff and was surrounded by fellow students who were attempting to physically beat him. Supervision staff deemed it was better to not get involved as the student would have had to done something in order to have that many people turn on him. Do you want to know the reason that happened? It was because I refused to steal from a teacher.

I am sure god forgave them at church about the lies and gang violence. When they asked for forgiveness every Sunday, well after the broken bones I gave them healed.

Lets see what else, oh my other favorite, escorting a girlfriend to her church and being used by the pastor as the example of all that was wrong with the world at large. I did try to leave that one peacefully but the congregation wasn't keen on letting me leave in a peaceful manor until the pastor was done with me. I ended up having to remove a few that were barring the door. I embarrassed her and the fire and brimstone tag he was using was just a precursor to him welcoming me to his church. Was a very warm welcome and made me feel very welcomed indeed, as only being physically restrained can. When I told her I had no interest in her church our relationship ended.

The one that I hold dearest in my heart? my own mothers look of disgust at what a horrible person I am. I called the police after a relative broke into my home and stole several thousand of dollars worth of equipment from me for his drug addiction. It wasn't a Christian thing to do and she, my sister and my aunt (mother of the cousin that stole) turned on me.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: I could keep going, but their is no point too it. I'll leave it at that I have dealt with the fanatical side of religion so often that my christian friends are amazed that I can even have a civil conversation with them or a family member. I do not hold any hate for these things, I do not forget them. But I do not hate, I have seen what hate does up close and personal. I know what it is like to look into a persons eyes who hates everything about, every fiber and will do anything they can to hurt you and they do not even know why they are doing it.

So my personal experience with religion, the history of religion, the state of the world and people in it. Do I think god exists? nope
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: "Do I think god exists? nope"

That's because you insist on denying the obvious.

We are created beings that have a responsibility to our Creator and not just ourselves.

You are not your own.

Until the time you can create your planet with your own dirt you need to shut up about there not being a God.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-10-21/news/30326165_1_young-planets-planets-form-astronomers

http://www.universetoday.com/49446/plane...

Guess we are learning about, let me know if you see god in the photo.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: God's creative hand and genius is observable everywhere when the blinders are taken off.

Also, nothing in either article negates the ultimate points made in this post.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: No comment on your religion being 1,182 years old? No comment that it was copied from another? No comment that your cultural sites belong to another religion that sacrificed animals on a large stone alter at it's entrance prior to a revision that subbed it out for prayer 500 years later? Well live stalk isn't cheap and when traveling it isn't a good idea to kill the animals that carry your stuff.

How about a comment on the slave trade? We are all supposed to be all decedents of Noah. Why would the church that supports the rulers let that happen? How about knowledge of the earth being a sphere? That it orbits a sun and isn't flat? Shouldn't there be a section of origins talking about everything god made beyond our little world? Wouldn't God want us to explore those wonders he made? Shouldn't we have a section on space travel to see those wonders before we are all horribly killed minus a pct that agree with the book? seems like kind of a waste to go to all that effort and not have it appreciated doesn't it?

No explanation on how many Adam's god must have gone through with the t-rex eating them? How about the survival of fresh water marine life during the flood? Did god protect them from the salt water? did he protect all the trees and other vegitation? but if he could do all that why did he need a ark?

He could have just use unfathomable power to protect the things he didn't want destroyed. Why a boat? Why didn't god just send Noah, his family and the animals to the garden of Eden for safe keeping while he did away with the things he didn't like in the world?

Shouldn't there be a record in the bible about Noah's children crossing the sea to North America? I would think that would be culturally significant. A massive Exodus of a people on a great adventure across the sea. It may have been a epic journey worth recording. All those trials going to a strange land that may or may not be their.

But I will shut up as asked, no one likes questions.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Dude,

I'm not Truthbrary and I'm not going to spend all day refuting stuff that is answerable by anyone who put's in the leg work.

It still boils down to the fact that you are not your own.
22 months ago: Yes I do.
22 months ago: Yes I do.
22 months ago: Nethel,

I am Truthbrary, and HN is right, you could easily find the answer to these basic questions... but I guess you know that already, seeing as we have to answer them for you every time you run from one post to another, asking the same thing without checking out the answers !;]

No problem... I will be here and at the next post to cut and paste answers for you and any other Atheist that claims ignorance...

1) Q: "No comment on your religion being 1,182 years old? No comment that it was copied from another?"

A; I get a kick out of statements that say Christianity started with the arrival of Jesus Christ in the flesh... He is the God of the Old Testament...
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6) ...Christianity wasn't borrowed or stolen from another religion... it was brought to us by God through the Jews... one Jew (Jew derived from the tribe of Judah) in particular... Jesus~

2) Q: "Why, how where... Noah?"

A; All you wanted to know about Noah, but were afraid to ask (the 3rd time):]
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answ...

3) Q: "How about knowledge of the earth being a sphere? That it orbits a sun and isn't flat?"

A; The Bible teaches that the Earth is a circle, and IF anyone taught that, they were obviously not reading their Bible !:]
"God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them." (Isaiah 40:22)

4) Q: "Salt water - and how did plants survive the flood?"

A; Salt water - and how plants did survive the flood...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles...

5) Q: "How did Noah's decedents cross over to North America?"

A; Noah's Ark survived a global flood ...to build seaworthy boats, with animals and cargo, no problem!
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: I have, my answer was god doesn't exist.
22 months ago: Well Nethel,

Evidence for His Creation, and interaction with mankind definitely does, whether you like it or not God is alive and well and recreating lives as we speak !:]
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: TB,

to 1. Thank you for agreeing with me and proving my point. Why are you called Christians? It is all in the previous links. Actually yes your religion is only 1,182 years old. Unless you are Jewish, in which case you are 3,182 years and not a disciple of Christ because he was just a man and they cover a few other things about his divinity in Judaism. So which are you? A follower of Judaism who call Jesus a false phrofit or a Christian who follows the rewrite of Judaism and wrote the second half of the story, combined it with the rewrite and called it the bible 1,182 years ago?

to 2. read the story several times.

to 3. History says differently about the belief in the world being flat. Why the Vatican got into ships and sailed to North America. They knew it was there and there christian brothers of Noah were waiting for them.

to 4. Designed to be hardy enough to take it? That is possible, on the same leaf not just the plants need to be resistant. Plants and soil would have needed to be unless salting the earth allows things to grow still. Next option, because we have plants today proves they survived! Of course, but that doesn't prove the flood happened, it more proves that it did not. Along with all the cultures we talked about that god missed in his flood.

The sea was not as salty as it is now and was like fresh water. It developed its salt content over time. Of course I wasn't their to measure the salt content, Nor the volcanic activity of the sea floor. It is entirely possible that not a single volcano was active in the sea beds as well or that the contents undergo creation and destruction at the tectonic plates. I can not prove the sea was salty but neither were you to prove otherwise. Salt water marine life is my answer.

Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: to 5. Never asked how, I asked why wasn't it recorded like the exodus was recorded. It would have been a very important part of the history yes? The bible would have then known about North America would it have not?

Skipped everything else I asked about, the slave trade of noah's children. The universe at large etc...
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: What's this fixation you have with slavery?
22 months ago: Nethel,

Seeing everything was destroyed in the flood, ancient stories of the flood from around the world will have to do...

"Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible's accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood..."
http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.ht...

I am here to answer your every question.... interestingly that's all you got. Wouldn't you like to have a few answers of your own ?:]

22 months ago: The Bible and Slavery
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles...

But Nethel, as to your questions about the Universe at large, you might want to check this out...

Astronomy Questions and an extensive library index...
http://christiananswers.net/creation/men...
http://christiananswers.net/creation/hom...
22 months ago: BTW Nethel,

Are you of the Nationality of your predecessors or your birthplace? All the promises to Abraham in the Bible... before Israel was even thought of (Abraham's grandson), are found and passed on through Jesus Christ. Ours is not a religion but a fulfillment of prophesy... and as such we predate the Law and prophets of the children of Israel... so you see, if any group is first it would be the children of Abraham, which we are by faith. You might want to read your Bible.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: No Huey, just using it as a example.

Box given that you are avoiding Judaisms view of Jesus being a false prophet, not the son of god, didn't raise after crusifiction and went with that is was passed through Jesus, which is the rewrite. I also hand you this very interesting paper on the meaning of Erets as it applies to the bible and the story of Noah.

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/no...

You may find it as interesting as I did when I read it putting together why the world wide flood didn't happen.

Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: will toss part two on as well
http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/no...
22 months ago: Nethel,

In response to your link asking where all the waters came from in the flood... well as it is now, it was then, we have massive amounts of water under the upper layers of the earth's crust, most of that broke up and escaped on to the land and into the atmosphere when the earth's crust fractured...

"Noah's Flood - Where did the water come from?"
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/ai...

"Where did the Flood waters go?"
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/ai...
22 months ago: WOW Nethel,

You go from ignorant to stupid in less that 6 seconds... in order for Jesus to be a false prophet, you would have to first prove Him a liar... Mmmm !;]

BUT, as to your link to some bogus paper on some bogus assertions on the global flood, here are some scientifically substantiated facts about the geological column and other observable tidbits on rock strata...

"Evolution Exposed Earth Science
Chapter 6: Geologic Column...."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles...

"Worldwide Flood, Worldwide Evidence

-Evidence 1Fossils of sea creatures high above sea level due to the ocean waters having flooded over the continents
-Evidence 2 Rapid burial of plants and animals
-Evidence 3 Rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas
-Evidence 4 Sediment transported long distances
-Evidence 5 Rapid or no erosion between strata
-Evidence 6 Many strata laid down in rapid succession"
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answ...

"Polystrate Fossils

Tree trunk fossils are frequently found cutting across many geological layers—hence the name polystrate fossils (poly-= many; stratum = layer).

It is not possible that polystrate fossils were buried gradually over many thousands or hundreds of thousands of years because the top part of any tree would have rotted away before it could be protected by sediment. Polystrate fossils point to rapid burial and are evidence for the reality of the global Flood recorded in the Bible."
http://creation.com/polystrate-fossils-e...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Nethel, according to the New Testament and scholars from the Roman Empire and Jewish historians, the first Christians were Jewish.

"During the first six decades of the first century CE, Judaism was composed of about two dozen competing factions: Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, Zealots, followers of John the Baptist, followers of Yeshua of Nazareth (Iesous in Greek, Iesus in Latin, Jesus in English), followers of other charismatic leaders, etc. All followed common Jewish practices, such as observing dietary restrictions, worshiping at the Jerusalem temple, sacrificing animals, observing weekly sabbaths, etc.

Yeshua of Nazareth (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) conducted a short ministry (one year, in the Galillee according to the synoptic gospels; perhaps three years, mainly in Judea according to the Gospel of John). His teachings closely matched those of Beit Hillel (the House of Hillel). Hillel was a great Jewish rabbi who lived in the second half of the 1st century BCE one or two generations before Yeshua's birth."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ch...

Like it or not, Yeshua of Nazereth was a real person, who really lived exactly when the Bible said. The prophesies of the old Jewish religion came to pass through him. However, the Pharisees claimed the Messiah was supposed to be a king, as they were looking to expand their worldly wealth. Jesus told them who they really were, the offspring of the exiled Cain, and they had him put to death for smashing up their Temple banking business, fulfilling the lamb sacrifice of the prophecies.

If you choose to not believe history, and insist that Christianity did not exist until a Roman Emperor invented it, that's your prerogative. I know Yeshua's words don't mean anything to you, but he said "You have not chosen me, I have chosen you." All I can say is that if you have heard, and have not been chosen, it's beyond my pay grade.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Nethel -

Thoroughly check out the links. This guy talks out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. Lots of stuff I've heard before. Some of it is quite humorous in its tremendous ignorance.

Here are some gems -

"Creationists would have us believe that eight white people that existed after the Flood, somehow changed into different racial types almost instantaneously."

Or

"Evolution is evolution whether used by "creationists" or "evolutionists." Thus if an amphibian could not gradually evolve into a reptile, then a group of white people could not have evolved into Negroes, Indians, Chinese, Polynesians, Pygmies, etc., especially in just a few hundred years time or less."


Those are just moronic statement to make and expect to get taken seriously.

Who is this guy anyway? Charles A Weisman? Any credentials to back up his outlandish claims? He sure wasn't/isn't an anthropologist or anywhere close to a biblical scholar or historian. Who is he?

BTW - Have you read any Hugh Ross? You should check out his work. Maybe it will make more sense to you at this time.

Bottom line: You are still a created being whether you like it or not.

This universe is not a cosmic accident even though you choose to believe so. Only the lobotomized believe there absolutely is no God.

Nethel - You are accountable to your Creator and you simply cannot honestly rule out all possibility that you may be face to face with that Creator someday not to distant.

22 months ago: I like your style Huey,

Nowhere does it say in the Bible Noah was white... or Jesus for that matter. In fact Moses married a black woman from Midian... Noah's family just didn't have a drained gene pool !;] BUT evolving from a slug... or an asexual one at that...
purely Calvin and Hobes !:]
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: going to be a long talk again... I'll try to keep up, we have a new computer system coming into the office so most of my evenings are being spent creating a new database, filing system, block library and drafting standards for the new system. Bare with me as I try to reply between rest periods.

erets: earth, land
Original Word: אָ֫רֶץ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: erets
Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-rets)
Short Definition: land

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_r...

http://notoriousbce.blogspot.ca/2011/05/...

Simply put, to Judaism, Jesus is not the messiah and he was just a common person spreading his views on God. Your book is his views and is the rewrite of Judaism. How do we prove that false, since logic doesn't work, neither does history, neither do physical ruins that you can look at and touch. How about the ten commandments from Judaism?

http://biblescripture.net/Commandments.h...

Lets see Christians in Jesus name broke 2 and 3.... but Jesus is God right in the holy trinity. Which takes us right to three.

Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: To the water volume, calculate the volume of the earth and then calculate the volume of water above sea level to cover the tallest mountain range. Compare the two totals and what have you got? Do not forget to account the molten mantel + the solid rock + existing water in the volume equation.

For the location of aquatic species in higher altitudes, Ice age. As the glacial ice moved the animals trapped in ice were deposited into the rock. Also sediments, top soil and vegetation. You can not really have it all ways TB, either the force of the flood that uprooted stone foundations (see temple of Ur for construction of stone foundations in the flood time period) were blasted from the ground along with the structures above. With force enough to shatter stone so finally that nothing remain of any structure (minus every major/minor culture on earth).

Pull up all the top soil (but leave all the plants and trees intact) to reform the landscape. Excepts the plants are all ok still and that pesky top soil was redeposited exactly as it left. I can see how the link to the text report on the flood would be bogus, makes way too much sense.
22 months ago: Christians don't "break" any commandments... that covenant wasn't given to them, God prophesied through the Old Testament prophets that He would make a new covenant with man, not like the old one, and Jesus reiterated only two (the greatest) laws applicable to man... 1) Love God 2) Love neighbor...

"The entire book of Genesis deals with the first 2500 years without the "Law" ...and to confirm that the Law had not been given to these people, Moses states in Deuteronomy 5 this very fact...
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. It was not with our fathers that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today." (Deuteronomy 5:2-3)
...so in essence this Law was given only to those who left Egypt in the Exodus as the "children of Israel", and was not meant for anyone outside of their nation. Though these commandments are the best moral code found in ancient writings, they were solely given to Israel as a special people of God. The confusion comes with what is commonly know as "replacement theology" ...where Christians believe they replace the Jews; or "in-grafted theology" where Christians believe that they are grafted into Israel, upon receiving Christ. Both are faulty philosophies."
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Are-The-Ten...
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Outside of architectural manuals for school and my work I do not have much leisure time but I will keep the author in mind the next time I go to pick up another batch of architectural theory and history books. I'll see if my local book store carries or can order anything on him.

To the education the fellow has, I do not think it matter much. You have already dismissed it and his opinion. Much like my Degree in Architectural History has been dismissed. As I explained to TB when he gave me the two dates of the world wide flood it simply is just not possible and wrong. Which the author of the research paper also explains the cultural centres at the time. But it doesn't matter that I can name every city, culture, major structural buildings and provide images of them. It is dismissed because the bible says other wise.

So on one side we have a written text and on the other 100's of ruined structures, with cultures, art, traditions, religions and artifacts in places we have complete history of from today all the way back. So which is the truth? did I jump into a time machine and quickly build all of those cities while you were not looking? Is this a massive world wide conspiracy to discredit the bible and all those places have been planted over time? Or maybe god placed them their to test for the faithful.

When I die will I meet god? nope, your scriptures are pretty clear on that one for people like me. When my life ends, it will end. Nothing after that, my legacy will live on past me in my work and memory of my decedents. I do not fear my end, I have already died 6 times this life time, I have even had people try to violently end that life, what is one more? Death holds no fear for me, it is part of our life cycle.
22 months ago: "Water volume" and how the earth (with only small hills before the flood) was deluged, and how the mountains were pushed up during the move of tectonic plates during and after the flood is explained well in Dr. Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory, endorsed by this list of scientists...

Dr. C. Stuart Patterson, former Academic Dean and Professor of Chemistry, Emeritus, Furman University

Dr. Kent Davey, Senior Research Scientist, The Center for Electromechanics, University of Texas at Austin

Dr. Douglas A. Block, Geology Professor, Emeritus, Rock Valley College

Dr. Stanley A. Mumma, Professor of Architectural Engineering, Pennsylvania State University

...the basic questions "Where did so much water come from, and where did it go?" are answered in section Part II Fountains Of The Great Deep of the online-book "Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, by Dr. Walt Brown"

"The Hydroplate Theory: An Overview
New evidence shows that the earth has experienced a devastating, worldwide flood, whose waters violently burst forth from under earth's crust. Standard "textbook" explanations for many of earth's major features are scientifically flawed. We can now explain, using well-understood phenomena, how this cataclysmic event rapidly formed so many features. These and other mysteries, listed below and briefly described in the next 11 pages, are best explained by an earthshaking event, far more catastrophic than almost anyone has imagined. Entire chapters are devoted to the italicized topics listed below.
The Grand Canyon
Mid-Oceanic Ridge
Earth's Major Components
Oceanic Trenches, Earthquakes, and the Ring of Fire
Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
Submarine Canyons
Coal and Oil
Methane Hydrates
Ice Age
Frozen Mammoths
Major Mountain Ranges
Overthrusts
Volcanoes and Lava
Geothermal Heat
Strata and Layered Fossils
Limestone
Metamorphic Rock
Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
http://www.creationscience.com/onlineboo...
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Tb so you have a theory on how it happened and it relies on their being only small hills correct?
http://www.profsurv.com/magazine/article...

Early History of Land Surveying
The oldest historical references to land surveying I've come across date from 3000 BC, when spring floods in the Nile Valley washed away all boundaries of individual farm tracts. Resulting conflicts prompted Egyptian rulers to establish a land register, possibly the oldest anywhere in the world. Egyptians established a system of survey baselines beyond the river's flood limits and developed a methodology for surveying and recording the location of the corners of each farm plot. Each spring the officials, what we would now call land surveyors, could re-trace the lost boundaries of each parcel.

References to this birth of land surveying have been found in ancient Egyptian documents as well as on the painted walls of buildings and tombs. By comparison, the oldest reference to the practice of medicine dates from 300 years later.

Some authors writing about land measurement and its origin mistakenly call this "engineering." However, engineering is not land surveying, although they both employ measurement techniques. Civil engineering, the branch closest to land surveying, is commonly defined as "that branch of engineering that specializes in the design and construction of structures such as bridges, roads, and dams." "Structures" is the key word here. (In 2550 BC, approximately 500 years after land surveying was first practiced, the famous Egyptian, Imhotep, created the first step pyramid using civil engineering techniques.)

http://www.pointtopointsurvey.com/Blog/L...

So, that is my profession of Architecture (which included engineering until our profession split and became separate entities) , The practice of Land surveying, 6 major civilizations and a whole bunch of minors with recorded history going all the way back.
22 months ago: So you are saying that since your God created everything and everything is perfect because your God created it, that lobotomized humans are a normal creation? How come all humans don't come out the same way, lobotomized? We all share the same genes, with a few alterations here and there, we should all be equally lobotomized.

Just finished watching a play put on by a local group, "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" and I've seen the movie with Jack Nickolson. Is that really how you view people who don't believe in your God? As how he or even Mr. Ruckly, were once they had been "fixed" by modern medicine.

Some very telling statements have been posted lately, here and other threads on this site, I must ponder the worth of what I am doing.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Forgot to add the history of art, Pottery, tools, agriculture and I know i am forgetting something else, all the ancient religions like Babylonian etc ...
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: knew I forgot one, Cartography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_...
22 months ago: Good information Truth.
22 months ago:
Huey, When we say over and over again tht we know thre is something more, it is because we have faith and the intelligence to figure it out. How can anyone accept less when there is so much more.
Because creation is a mystery, doesn't mean that it didn't happen or it isn't real or even existing;therefore, we accept.
Yet, it isn't our job to explain to anyone who made our God. People have to search and find their own answers. We don't have to question
All I know is I believe and have the vision to know there is way more than meets the eye.
22 months ago: "Something from nothing"

Maybe we are all running off the same batteries but just don't know it. Doesn't matter if someone believes or not.

We believe in the Holy Spirit creator of heaven and earth.
We know we have souls that transcend our physical state, but we don't need to see it to be aware of it. These things are tangible to us. Basically most people have morals and a conscience. Why? These human qualities and traits are built into us so that we can make choices. Think of the genius behind all this. It isn't by chance.

Who would want to float around a cold dark and empty place having no sense of purpose when you spent your entire life with purpose and loving others. One can say then WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF LIVING at all. We were already told what to expect but some aren't listening and some are. The crucifixion impacted our lives. It opened our eyes to know the difference and the importance of believing in Christ. You can ask yourself what is it inside of us that drives us to keep the continuity of the circle of life going, then I would think there is more reason to understand that there is a higher power because we do it instinctively. That is what I mean by running off the same batteries.

.A nonbeliever doesn't have to believe in God but knows at the same time they couldn't or shouldn't sin against mankind; therefore If we commit a crime against another person, we are punished by law. We are following rules of heaven and earth. There is something there that makes us protect each other, plus we have a conscience which is a built-in trait. Why? We are too complex not to have been created for a purpose. We are too complex not to know that there is something that put us here. I think dying is the same as living but only another stage we go through. Where did our God come from? All we know is that we reach for him because it is a natural thing to do. Not knowing where God comes from doesn't make him less, or me less. We are given the gift of faith, and we follow his law and rules. I think a nonbeliever follows the same rules to some extent. It doesn't matter if you believe in him or not, it is going to come down to it in the end because we aren't worthless we are here for a purpose and life continues on.

.


Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: "It doesn't matter if you believe in him or not."

It absolutely matters.
22 months ago: Huey I didn't think anyone read anything I wrote.
Not said the way you took it.
OF course it matters to me and you and others who believe.
To those who will never believe, I am saying it doesn't matter to God because we are all his children. I don't think God condemns anyone. If a person lives a good life and does good by others, their beliefs are their own. I can't force a person to think the way I do, and I wouldn't want to. It isn't up to me. If they talk against my faith disrespectfully and challenge me, too bad for them. I won't take.

22 months ago: I have to elaborate a little more here:
"It doesn't matter if you believe in him or not, it is going to come down to it in the end because we aren't worthless we are here for a purpose and life continues on".

What I am saying is that it all will come to light at the end of our journey. So, if those who refuse to acknowledge a higher power or creator, if these unbelievers have lived a good life, God doesn't turn his back.
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Sunny, I read your comments regularly. I read ALL your comments specifically when they are on my posts. I hear you and I appreciate your input.

I need to ask you, how do you interpret Matthew 7:21–23 and 25:31-46?

If we could inherit God's Kingdom by simply living a good life there would have been no need for Jesus sacrifice, would there?
22 months ago: I appreciate that.
One thing I do know is that there was a time when a priest told me that we do not really know if we are good.
There is a lot of bad in this world and innocent people have to bear the repercussions of it. I know that each one has an obligation to do something to make a difference in this world to make it better. We can't just sit back and be selfish in our lives either.
Interesting. Okay I'll read it and tell you what I think. Sunny
22 months ago: Matthew: 21 "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?' 23 Then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers

I'm not a Master of the Bible but:
The way I see it those who came to him wanted reward for what they did, so they weren't recognized. They didn't deserve heavenly acknowledgement. It was all about their needs being fulfilled. They were exploiting Him and their motive was to gain the Kingdom of heaven.
When someone does something for the sake of good and asks for nothing in return, then you are doing the will of the Father. It should be pure unselfish acts. When someone does this, and I have seen it happen, all good comes their way.
Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice out of love and forgiveness for mankind. He wanted to give them a chance for eternal life. You really have to completely believe and have total faith in Him in order to reach Heaven.
Some people, and there are many, depicted in Dante's Novel would rather reign in Hell then serve in Heaven. That's their choice.
22 months ago: When we look at the cross, we know the purpose when we are true believers. I can't see any other way but that way.
22 months ago: When I think about this more, it can simply mean that some think they are good doers by going through the motions, but don't really believe and have true faith.
I think that people who sincerely try to do good are candidates for heaven.
22 months ago: So, Nethel, what philosophy do you have aside from leaning on yourself?
Is there any time that you don't look for a scientific explanation for things. Is there anytime that you can look at a sky and see how beautifully it is painted for us. Aside from the sun and water vapors, isn't there something more that would create the entire picutre to look this way to us.

Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Do you mean can I appreciate nature and the natural world around me? I work in a art focused industry.
Content Removed by Sunny1
22 months ago: Nethel, I respect all faiths. I would never question another person's beliefs.
One does not have to believe in God, but why persistently say it to people who are believers. I don't know what the purpose of that is. There is nothing to gain by it because we will keep believing in God.
We have all the proof we need.
I'm sure you have friends that believe in God, and it doesn't bother or matter to you.
I think it is kind of sad to tell people of a faith that God is only a fairytale and God doesn't exist. There are millions and millions of people who would never agree with you. I know that you say you get insulted, but so do I. Nothing that people tell you about their beliefs seems to make you understand anything about them. My brother doesn't believe either, so I get that. It doesn't mean I will like him less, or I will nag him to death about it. It is what it is to each one of us. I'll defend my faith to the end.

You should be thinking about fun things, and your new home. You got a lot going for you.

.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Huey Wrote "Argue with me if you want, but YOU lose that one. Guarantee.
Want to try it?"

Discussion accepted Sunny.

Oh I understand the belief just fine sunny. But what I choose to accept is another thing. To me religion only serves a few purposes: as a early education system, a moral system and as a control device for large groups of people over a wide area. Fundamentally religion is just a governing system much like a legal system that a group of people agree on and hold in regard.

When I said Fairytale like asope's fables and mother goose, I was attributing the value that religion has too me. These things are just stories, some with morals and education as their purpose. I do not believe in God, do not confuse us having a dialog about it as a attack. If I was attacking religion, I would be lobbying for its removal. Which I am not, we are just having a discussion here about it, heated or otherwise.

Sunny, when I go home I do not sit in a dark room and plot how I am going to thwart TB, box or anyone's next post. When I get home I do the dishes, play with the cats, start dinner if my gf is not off of work and ahead of me. I give her a hug and a kiss, sit on my couch for a moment, read my paper and then head up stairs after dinner to get to work on any number of projects I have in the works(if we are having a high volume of work). If not my gf and I spend time together and even if I am working she will come up to the office and sit at her computer station next to mine and we talk as I work.

22 months ago: That's why I say Nethel to each his own.
Nice life, Nethel! You can build me a house in Belize any day. I have that to do next. I have to go there for 3 months.

If I feel very stong about my beliefs, that's me.
Everyone is different. A big world out there with many differences in thinking.
When you say it once or twice about not believing, that's fine. It is hard to hear over and over again how much somebody is against religion and the Bible has no meaning, especially when so many of us have felt in our lives the interaction of our beliefs with a higher power and spirit. Many times this has saved so many from sickness, disease. and hardship through our faith and prayers. What we have is faith.

What I keep asking and nobody gets is how do you explain away things in life that you can't find an answer for.
Disregarding our personal beliefs or nonbeliefs, we are people living together in one world and have the same experiences. How do you explain when something happens that is unexplainable. I'm sure that happens to you as well as everyone else. How would you react?
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Now when you say unexplained do you mean something beyond our understanding right now that we are working towards, like the formation of planets in the universe (which we are now understanding), the origins of life which we have yet to fully explain and only have theory. That people spend countless hours trying to understand it? or are you talking a completely logic defying event like a tidal wave 50 stories high about to smash a city to pieces that just stops and is gone?

Unexplained events get explained over time. Logic defying, like my tidal wave example, only happen in books. As we learn and grow we find the explanations of things and it is added to our wisdom as a species. In BCE the gods were the cause of natural storms, now we know about the nature of storms, how they form and what causes them. We can predict our weather now, granted not with a 100pct accuracy, but the point is our understanding of it changed and improved.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: For your house sunny, to my knowledge of Mexico's property development only a Mexican can own property and structures. Unless you are going into a joint venture with one and they will legal own the home, I wouldn't recommend building out of country.

The bedrock is also very porous and the location sees a lot of storm activity, will cost a lot of money in materials and construction to make is weatherable to storms in the region. If you want to spend the money on geotech reports for site stability, materials and construction though, have a site in mind with the reports. I can come up with a concept design. You will want a local architect, engineer and construction firm to see the project to completion as they have a better understanding of their own building conditions over me researching it for construction drawings.
22 months ago: Nethel, all the history, science, whatever you got, the only thing that matters is our relationship with Christ. It's awesome.
22 months ago: Nethel, I understand where you are coming from. Don't think I don't for one second.
1. What would be your explanation for the phenomenon we experience.
2. What about the ever hunger for knowledge.
3. What about our thought process and the ability to have such a vast mind.
5. What do you feel our purpose is in our constant quest for peace and the protection of human life. Human life is the highest order.
6. How do you explain away our movement through TIME. Everything is measured by it.
22 months ago: I'm not relating this to the Bible. I'm asking for some explanation fromyou outside of yourself that would relate to us having purpose. Everything is way bigger than us. What is your explanation.
Nethel
Nethel
22 months ago: Sorry about the late reply sunny, work and time as earlier explained.

1. Which Phenomenon are you referring too?
2. In order to survive humanity learned the use of tools, our inquisitive nature is a self defense mechanism. In our "modern" age, we have leisure time to devote to intellectual pursuits since we are not spending our days fighting for survival.
3. That is a acquired trait over time.
4. Eco systems are the highest order of life as you can not exist without them. Our quest for peace is hampered by our greatest skill set, our universal capacity for war and violence. We need as a species to develop a better understanding of ourselves and get over petty differences that do not actually exist in the higher order. Religion, this idea of race, and political geography.
5. If I had that answer sunny I would be put to death for sorcery.
22 months ago: Nethel, it appears that in some of the RR posters opinions, you (and I) are too ignorant or too stupid to read a scientific or other article and comprehend what we have read. In their opinion, our minds are just too feeble to grasp what the writer has spent their lifetimes gathering and interpreting into a document and presenting for public review and contemplation, at least according to some on this site, and what they have presented is nothing but wishful thinking and pure fabrication out of thin air, unlike their own version of events.

There was a time when someone who wanted to sway another member to their side would refrain from such blatant accusations and direct insults, or at least would preface them so that any comment directed at another would at least be at the idea presented rather than at a members intellect.

I can not apologize for their lack of tact nor for their own ignorance, all I can do is encourage you to continue to place before them what evidence you can and if they choose to ridicule it because it does not come from their single book of reference, then that is their loss, you at least have tried.

Carry on, the battle is far from over.
22 months ago: Six,

I like how you got Nethel's back and all, but if you are referring to my comment...

"WOW Nethel, You go from ignorant to stupid in less that 6 seconds... in order for Jesus to be a false prophet, you would have to first prove Him a liar"

...I was simply calling Nethel out on his ridiculous claim that Jesus Christ was a false prophet, when he said previously that Jesus didn't even exist. Now if you share that sentiment, then I invite you also to share in my appraisal of his logic !:]
22 months ago: Please reference where Nethel "claimed" Jesus was a false prophet.

Could it be where he asked YOU a question on 17OCT at ~1556?

I like how you call all Jews and atheists ignorant and stupid, we must be of kindred spirits, not to mention the other few hundred if not thousands of religions that don't hold to Christian beliefs. You are really showing the true colors of Christianity, the ones I remember so vividly and Nethel has provided detailed examples of his own experiences. The same mentality that destroyed hundreds of cultures throughout the world like the Mayans who could fit blocks of stone together without mortar and the Christians came in and knocked it down and built a crappy looking "Church" on top of the Mayan temple's foundation and had to use "glue" to hold it together and then the benevolent Christians slaughtered the Mayans by the thousands.

Just a sample:
http://www.cleversley.com/religion-delus...

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Nethel doesn't need me to get his back, he's got a pretty strong one all on his own, I just let him know someone is still here besides the "Christian Squad".
Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
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Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Six - I believe Nethel is sincere guy and I hope you don't see anything I have written as bashing or berating him. Not my intention at all. I have respect but I disagree with and can easily refute the lion's share of his objections on this specific issue.

Also, I am not taking a "Christian Squad" or an "us versus them" approach here at all. I wish more would jump in.

The only way we as a people can come to mutual understanding and respect is through honest and meaningful dialogue. None of us has all the answers; however some things are simply self-evident.

Believing Jesus is Who He claimed to be and that He accomplished what He came to do really is not the point of what I have written here.

Folks just seem not to want to go there and dodge the real issue; The real issue being that this universe did not create itself.

If someone wants to believe that it did, they can. But that is not scientific stance and it certainly is not a rational one either.

Any thinking person should at least consider that they are here for a reason greater than themselves and may one day be accountable to their Creator. The problem is many folks are content being their own god, so they don't even want to consider it. To write that potentiality off is simply irrational and ludicrous.

See, that's where the rubber meets the road and the fireworks begin. It is when folks are forced to look at those issues square in the eye and deeply consider the ramifications that we sometimes get the walls going up, the emotional and not rational or logical objections, and the inevitable consternation and denial. I am thankful that that is not always the outcome. There are plenty that are open minded and secure enough to hear and consider if not accept.

It's still a shame however that still some people simply refuse to go. The main reason they refuse is emotional and usually has to do with fear. Well, they need to get over it.

I am making sure this post stays on track. So folks can take a deep look. Hundreds, if not thousands will eventually read this piece and I want to make sure I've made the case and stuck to it regardless of how many rabbit trails pop up.

Just too many folks refuse to honestly consider the fact that they are not their own because it tips over their secular apple cart. Now they have to look at the very real possibility of being accountable to a Creator and it simply makes some squirm and uncomfortable.

Well, we all have things to deal with in our lives. Deal with this. I believe that this is a very important and critical issue for EVERYONE to deal with and I will simply keep sounding the trumpet.

Bottom line: To write off even the possibility of a personal Creator. A Creator that we may one day give account to is not only irrational and ludicrous, but it is also quite stupid as well.

22 months ago: I agree 100% with Huey.
Nobody is out to punish anyone for debating. It is hard to take out and out remarks about Jesus being a false or a fairytale. For what reason is this done? You've said it over and over again. Why? I think we get it.
We all should have respect for each others opinions because we represent millions of others that may feel the same way.
I've asked questions because I'm curious and when I ask nobody gives me their view. You get the same old response which gets boring. You get a sound off either "not true or false statement".
I figure we have minds and they are to be used. Why can't we look beyond what we see with the naked eye. One fact or another can easily change with new discovery from one day to another. There will always be new changes.
I think that Six and Nethel are smart people too, but I believe everyone should open their eyes to see that there is so much more we don't know. You can't say that's it and that is all there is. That doesn't make sense. What is the use of learning any more if that is the case.
I accept the fact that there is a lot out there and that mankind does not know everything. I keep looking for answers. When you do that you see more and more that there is much we don't know.

Huey Newton
Huey Newton
 Administrator
22 months ago: Well said.
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