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Jewish and a Christian? That’s Not Possible. Or is it?

Posted 25 months ago|54 comments|1,213 views
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Jewish and a Christian? That's Not Possible. Or is it?

The hope of Jews everywhere is the coming of the Messiah. However, it's great to know that the Messiah is there for ALL people. He is for the Jew first but also for the Gentiles.

It would seem that a practicing Jewish person should recognize Jesus most readily. After all, Moses spoke of Him, and Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah and the Psalms all spoke of Him.

Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Mary and descendant of David, King of Israel is believed by hundreds of thousands (if you believe the polls, possibly millions), to be that promised Messiah. This belief is based on history and hundreds of prophesies that point to Him as Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah. There are many prophesies yet future. Do not make the mistake that stumble many of thinking that every prophesy that speaks of Messiah has had to have already been fulfilled. That is not the case.

So, how can there be a substantial number of God respecting Jews who at this time do not believe Jesus is the Promised one? How can this be?

The group of Jewish believers who became the first founders of Christianity was convinced that Jesus of Nazareth was their promised Messiah. The name "Christ" is the Greek equivalent of "Messiah," so that the name Jesus Christ really means "Jesus the Messiah," or "Jesus the anointed." Yeshua the Messiah.

Most folk (including Orthodox Jews) define a Jew as someone born to a Jewish mother. Under the Israeli Law of Return it is not your degree of faith in Judaism that defines your Jewishness but your Jewish parenthood. On the opposite side of the picture under the Nuremberg laws it was not how often you went to synagogue or whether you even believed in God that made you a Jew in the eyes of the Nazis. It was having Jewish parents or even grandparents. Being Jewish therefore is an accident of birth not necessarily a religious commitment.

If being committed to the synagogue and to Judaism is your definition of Judaism then a large proportion of the Hebrew speaking population of Israel is not Jewish. Not to mention the millions outside of Israel who could care less about God or the cultural traditions of their family or ancestors.

In a conversation with a Jewish religious leader, Nicodemus, Jesus said, 'Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven' (John 3.3).

This spiritual rebirth comes as a result of repentance from sin and faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah as a sacrifice for sin (in fulfillment of such biblical passages as Isaiah 53, which prophesies the future sufferings of the Messiah as a sacrifice for sin).

If you care to study the Tenach you will find that Jeremiah 31.31-34 describes the New Covenant and Ezekiel 36.26-28 speaks of the new heart and spirit which God promises to Israel. The New Covenant and the new spirit are available in the Messiah Jesus and are our experience when we put our trust in Him. Jew and Gentile alike.

Now if we accept the racial definition of being Jewish there is no problem with this. A born again Jew also remains Jewish, just as a born again Irishman remains Irish or a born again Latino, Asian, African, Indian or whatever.

If you insist on the definition of Jewishness meaning practicing Judaism then there is a problem. Like previously stated than there are millions who racially are Jews but by religious definition and practice they are not. Just as many who claim to be Christian yet, they have never truly repented or established Jesus as the Lord of their everyday life. They run the show and they want God to bless it, but is doesn't work that way.

A rational discussion of this question (which is the one we are really interested in) is the kind of emotional (and we would have to say often irrational) arguments 'I was born a Jew and will die a Jew' (and therefore cannot even consider the claim that Jesus is the Messiah, 'You have betrayed our people by accepting Jesus as Messiah'.

Hogwash!

http://www.zionshope.org/index.aspx

All of these arguments are good for clouding the issues and stirring up hostility to Jewish believers in Jesus as Messiah. They are totally counter productive to any kind of sensible discussion of a question which no Jewish person can really avoid - 'Is Jesus of the Nazareth the one prophesied in the Tenach as the Messiah?'

There are many who believe that He is and they remain Jewish in the truest sense of the word. The point of the Rant is not to "dump" on Jewish non-believers or to judge them, but to clear up the mis-conception that a person cannot be a Jew and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior and remain a Jew. That, quite simply, is a Satanic lie.

Please take the time to view at least the first YouTube video. Thank you.

HN
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COMMENTS
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Great link TCG.

I learned a lot from these Jewish Christians on there, since they would naturally have better sources of information, and hey, it all happened in their part of the world.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: I've never heard a Jew dump on Christianity. I'm not saying they haven't, just that I haven't heard it. Well, maybe some comedians. But Ive often wondered what it is like for a super-minority, with fierce ties to their heritage, to have their religious system adopted by a good portion of the rest of world. That is, after it had been modified beyond their recognition.

And what must it be like for them to still be revered as God's chosen race, and yet told that their belief system is fundamentally wrong, and that they need to listen to gentiles to get the truth about their beliefs.

I wonder if they feel that Christianity is a Satanic lie at worst, designed to trick them into disobeying Judaic Law, or at best just a misunderstanding of the facts.
25 months ago: Watch the video.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: OK I will. I admit I didn't watch it at first, and after I get back from taking the girls to the park, I'll give it a look. That comment was just me wondering out loud.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: OK, after watching the video, my question is answered. Apparently some of the hardliners, what would be called religious extremists in any other religion, do feel that Christianity is a threat, but only as it affects their people.(?)


Another question pops into my head though. Many Christians, (myself included) say we need to support Israel at whatever cost. Yet many of those same Christians condemn Jews for not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. Israel is not a Christian nation, and they have as a nation rejected God's gift of salvation, and yet we support them as if our own salvation depends upon it. I'm not saying that we shouldn't support them, quite to the contrary, I will support Israel as God's favored nation.

We also have a double standard towards Israel and finance. We stand to support them because of our religious beliefs, but yet deride them for what we see as them controlling our financial situation.

Somebody straighten me out.
25 months ago: Sorry to bust your bubble OOTB.
Christians are just another outside tribe to rule economically.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 months ago: Well, there are some really rich Jews, and some really rich Jews own some really powerful banks, but there are also a multitude of poor ones too. Probably about the same ratio of Rich/poor as any other race.
Gregoire
Gregoire
25 months ago: Great post.
The hope of Israel is messiah...most of them just don't expect him to descend with holes in his hands and feet.
That's ok, everyone has to learn when they come to Messiah Yeshua...they were not "wrong about some things..." but wrong about everything.
25 months ago: I'll second Gregoire, great post Huey. Very informative.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: We tend to think of Christianity as a fixed institution but it is not. It has changed and morphed gradually till it became the gentile sects we know of today and even as we speak it continues to change. Jewish Christianity ceased to be a sect of Judaism after, 324 C.E. The counsel of Nicaea brought about by Constantine that stomped out nearly 500 different sects of Christianity and made official only one type and that is the one that was approved by Rome that we can read of in the Apostles Creed.

Jewish Christian sects were especially persecuted as enemies of the Roman state and forced to give up Jewish practices such as resting on the 7th day and forced to work on that day and made to rest instead on the first. Eventually as did Judaism in general at that time they were forced to either assimilate or so greatly morph that what is around today does not resemble in one bit what was around back then. Make no mistake about it, the religion of the Jews today is not the religion of the Jews 2,000 years ago and so it would make sense that Jews today would not believe in an atoning messiah as Christians today do (that is the basis of our religion), that instead they are looking for a leader that will restore Israel.

Jews have not had a blood atonement system in place to atone for sins in 2000 years, their religion changed at the destruction of the second temple, just as ours did as well. I don't know if that bridge that got burned so many centuries back could ever be restored. The Jesus of Christianity cannot heal the divided Jewish Community or restore their land and temple, not the way they want to anyway. For Jews to backtrack 2000 years and accept the Galilean Carpenter as their blood atonement they would need a radical miracle here today. Such as the purging of the holy land from non Jewish influence. They would need the restitution of the ark of the covenant and the ever burning lamps in the holy temple. There would literally have to be one miracle after another after another that would definitively show the Jewish people that G-d is still in their midst. Short of that Jesus is a Christian teaching and no Jew that still hopes for Zion would ever embrace such a foreign concept.

To do so radically changes the ideology of what is Zion and why hope for it.
25 months ago: "For Jews to backtrack 2000 years and accept the Galilean Carpenter as their blood atonement they would need a radical miracle here today. "

Right now that may be true for national Israel, but I am glad that it is not true for individual Jews. The time will come however.

Thanks for the input SS.
25 months ago: Rudi,

Any comment my brother?
25 months ago: What if Christ is the temple destroyed and upon the return of Christ the temple will be forever rebuilt?
25 months ago: That's a complex question.

Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Romans in a.d. 70. Many believe that it will be rebuilt in time yet future.

"For the days shall come upon you when your enemies will throw up a bank before you, and surround you, and hem you in on every side, and will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation."

God will fulfill His covenant promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God's "chosen people" will enjoy their "promised land" some day, after they have experienced national regeneration (Jer. 31:31-34; Rom. 11:25-26). Not just for the Church, but also for Israel, "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom. 11:29).

What I know for sure is this, God wants to dwell in us as a people corporately as His temple and not dwell in a temple made by hands. Hebrews 9:11-12

All of what has transpired before is a shadow or a type of the actual reality of what it is that He wants to accomplish.

I will be their God and they will be My people.

Ezekiel 37

24 " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and
David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' "

Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: My faith tells me Jesus is the atonement for my sins. That faith is based on 2000 year old temple atonement based teachings. The Jewish Nation, The Jewish Communities around the world and Jewish individuals have had no blood atonement for 2000 years. Their religion has morphed away from that. This is my point. Their religion is about Zion. Zion represents deliverance and redemption to a Jew not Jesus. Ask any Jew who Isaiah 53 is referring too and they will tell you it is the state of Israel. For a Jew to accept Jesus he has to reject Zion because Zion is redemption for the suffering Jew and a Jew can't reject his birthright which is Zion without rejecting his birthright of being a Jew. Face it guys, Jesus being the messiah is a concept that has not been Jewish in over 1500 years. Ask Rudi and I'm sure he will agree.
25 months ago: "For a Jew to accept Jesus he has to reject Zion because Zion is redemption for the suffering Jew and a Jew can't reject his birthright which is Zion without rejecting his birthright of being a Jew."

Hogwash, again.

The born-again Jew, the one who has received Yesuah as Messiah is still a Jew. It is that type of prejudicial attitude that ostracizes them from their own people.

How can you watch that video and tell me those folk are not Jews?

You did watch it didn't you?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: ...The born-again Jew, the one who has received Yesuah as Messiah is still a Jew...

A Christian Jew is no less an oxymoron than kosher pork or a Christian Satanist.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: I'm not saying who is or isn't a Jew. I'm telling you from the point of view of more than one Jew that I've met and known what they feel about Jesus and How it relates to Judaism. Judaism doesn't see the Christian Christos as their deliverer. Being redeemed to them has nothing to do with sin. Sin is forgiven by G-d when a Jew repents. According to their modern religion blood atonement has nothing to do with it. This is what I've been trying to tell you. The Jewish religion today is not the same one of 2000 years ago, that understood the need for a blood atonement. The Jewish religion today ties redemption with that of the physical state of the Jewish people not with sin or righteousness.
25 months ago: "Being redeemed to them has nothing to do with sin. "

That is a huge problem even as it relates to everything that is taught in the Hebrew scriptures.

I'm sure glad not all Jewish people see it that way.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: All I can say is "Jews for Judaism":

The Mission of Jews for Judaism is to strengthen and preserve Jewish identity through education and counseling that counteracts deceptive proselytizing targeting Jews for conversion.

Judge for yourself: Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/questions-...
25 months ago: The link itself is deceptive and incomplete. It displays a poor understanding of the eschatological facts of the past as well as the potentialities of the future.

That's the same snare that catches many, Jew and Gentile alike.


markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: ...It displays a poor understanding of the eschatological facts of the past as well as the potentialities of the future...

Huh, the eschatological facts and potentialities of the future? Sounds like you're employing the alternative to dazzling with brilliance.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: That link is a perfect example of the point I'm trying to make. The Jewish Religion today doesn't have need for a blood atonement. They are looking for a physical deliverer.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Is it true that Jesus never lied?

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/faq-primar...
25 months ago: This link is worse than the first. The statements are pretty ignorant. No one with any biblical knowledge and understanding at all would have a problem contextually picking this apart.

Beside, you and I both know, if at this time the Jews had named a Messiah other than Jesus, you would find fault with him too.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Huey, most any religion including Christianity and it's multitude of sects has a set of apologetics to keep it's faithful from straying and/or being proselytized into other religions and other sects. As a salesman for your religion, I wouldn't expect you to waive the white flag but the links I provided are for the benefit of your potentials marks.
25 months ago: That's fine. Everyone needs to think and come to their own conclusions.

Hopefully, the individuals here are discerning enough to see them for what they are. Not honest attempts at understanding, but out of context ramblings promulgated in order to steer people away from that which may have eternal benefit for them.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: Ancient Israel was taught through the covenantal atonement they performed regularly that humans are sinners that sin is what separates us from G-d. That he who sins must pay for his sin with his own blood. That G-d in his justice could accept no less. That G-d is also merciful. That in his mercy he has provided an exception and that is a substitutionary atonement. That the substitution must be perfect and flawless, no less than from G-d himself. Abraham told Isaac "G-d will provide for himself a sacrifice." He did! None of this is Christian in origin. It can be found all over The Law, The Prophets and the writings. But as I said, Jews don't, believe in this anymore. They're religion has changed. Just like in the video those Jews were ostracized for believing in Yeshua as the atoning Messiah, I have known Jewish people who upon accepting Jesus as their atonement have been literally disowned by their family and their community. It is not always the case but there are very few exceptions. As for Mark, don't pay him any mind he wants to argue because he is not convinced himself of the nonsense he writes.
25 months ago: Yep. You and I agree more often than we disagree.

I really like the video. My family and I watched it together while I was writing this piece. It is truly wonderful to know there are families like that in Israel. God bless them for their faith and courage.
25 months ago: Siempre, you had to open up the whole circumcision thing again?

Let's just use an animal sacrifice to atone for our human sins. Look into the eyes and heart of this little girl.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/7203309...
Rudi Stettner
Rudi Stettner
 Moderator
25 months ago: In the eyes of traditional Judaism, the conversion of a Jew to Christianity is seen as a tragedy The questions do not lend themselves well to a brief comment such as I could render. I thank Mark Byrn for providing the same link I would have.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

Also check out Faith Strengthened by Isaac Troki

http://faithstrengthened.org/FS_TOC.html

This entire book can be bought or downloaded free and legally from Google Books
25 months ago: Hi Rudi,

There are always two sides to every discussion.

Many of the objections raised by many Jews about Jesus may seem to be valid on the surface and at first glance. Many objections are not raised however not on purely biblical grounds but on more relativistic grounds. Often the objections have absolutely nothing to do with prophecy, but everything to due with simply not wanting to see it or looking at the ramifications of believing and saying, no way.

Everyone has to make their own choices based upon the available information. We all just have to make sure we don't miss the forest because of the trees.

Thanks for bringing some input.


25 months ago: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3377873742473033242#
25 months ago: For you prophecy buffs, the above link is worth listening to.
25 months ago: Please check the comments on link to the video (It's the direct link to the first vid).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sEBAldf4...


Very interesting.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Here's another interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf1QL_jrm...
Content Removed by Huey Newton
25 months ago: Seems sincere. Hoever, he has a flawed understanding in regard to traditional Judaism with regard to the atonement and how one achieves peace with the Almighty.

According to the scriptures, we cannot come to God on our own terms. He sets the terms. If our sin is unatoned for, we remain therein. An individual may try to dodge that, but you cannot and still say the Hebrew scriptures hold value.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: I agree with the hackneyed phrase you removed - 'sincere but sincerely wrong' and it applies to you as well. When it comes to theology, the chances of being right are about the same as picking the winning numbers in a lottery where the available numbers are infinite. As for being spiritual, I have to meet anybody (inc. online) that projects anything more than religious zealotry, and certainly nobody that represents the "Jesus" mythos as written in the Christian bible.
25 months ago: Your rebuttals are all the same. They have conviction, and strong opinion, but lack eternal substance.

I didn't write the piece to try to prove anyone wrong, but to show how things can be misconstrued and how we should not write people off.
25 months ago: "When it comes to theology, the chances of being right are about the same as picking the winning numbers in a lottery where the available numbers are infinite. "

About as probable as everything we see being created by a cosmic accident.

markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: To quote another cliche, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" and since you've undertaken the effort to sell your religion as the one and true, the burden of proof is on you to prove it - not for others to disprove.

According to the Christian Bible, Jesus claimed divinity by the evidence of his miracles, and that his followers would do even greater miracles (John 14) - of course, Jesus performing miracles is a fabrication of the bible writers and the charlatans who perform miracles in the name of Jesus today are just that - charlatans.

In terms of physical, mental or spiritual (supernatural) health, I see no evidence to suggest that religion has anymore efficacy than a placebo or carrying around a rabbits foot. What in observable supernatural terms sets you apart from any other religious zealot?
25 months ago: You'd have to get to know me.

I like you Mark. Even if we disagree from time to time. But I don't know you and you don't really know me.

A person's life speaks for itself. I have no intention of trying to prove anything about myself to anyone. Life is something that is experienced first hand not proven via cyber chat.

If a person hangs out with an individual, eats with them, lives with them, and has long and meaningful conversations with them, they get to know them.

Life is a living letter. We should be concerned with what it is saying about each of us. That will be our legacy and all that is left after we are gone.

What will our life say about our character? That's whats most important, not our theology or philosophy. Did we give life or did we minister death?
25 months ago: Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, [so] that he will not hear" (Isaiah 59:1-2).

That is a problem to be solved in the spirit, not the flesh.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: Huey is right Mark! If you believe in G-d and you beleieve the Bible then you can't go making stuff up, if on the other hand you don't believe in G-d or the Bible then anything goes. It is very hard to look at over 3000 years of blood atonement in scripture and not believe that it is important.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: So the truth of religion is based on it's age?
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: So that's all you got out of what I wrote? Or is that all you could argue with?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: And to think that you can absolve your 'sins' by having somebody or some animal violently bleed for makes 'god' into an irrational and violent barbarian - it's no wonder that so many have killed in the name of this 'god'
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
25 months ago: Make that 'violently bleed for you' makes...
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
25 months ago: You're funny Mark! If G-d is the author of all life than everything is fair game as an object lesson including less favorable human taboo's such as blood and animal sacrifice. These especially have a way of getting peoples attention because we can't grow new animals and blood escaping from the body quickly leads to death, much the same way that a rebellious human defying the boundaries that G-d has for him also leads to death. From a purely humanistic point of view I don't blame someone for missing that point but you ole buddy are a baptized bored SDA looking for some intelectual challenge among us heathens.
25 months ago: Mark. Dudage.

You don't believe in any of this, yet you are trying to play one side against the other.

You are missing the point.

My whole reason for writing this was to clear up the fallacy that one cannot be a follower of Yeshua and remain Jewish. That is simply not true.

Also, the OT and NT plainly state that blood is needed for atonement.

You have a right to disagree with that, but that does not change what is written.

25 months ago: Al, no further replies needed. I have already written you off into the dung pile.

Have a good afterlife!
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
Content Removed by Siempre Solo
7 months ago: "And to think that you can absolve your 'sins' by having somebody or some animal violently bleed for makes 'god' into an irrational and violent barbarian - it's no wonder that so many have killed in the name of this 'god'

That's the thing, we cannot absolve our sins. When we die and stand before a holy and righteous God what then?

Lord I did good. Can't get to your standard but you MUST forgive me or YOU are unjust.

BS.
sunny2
sunny2
6 months ago: If they only knew, Huey. They don't have an understanding, but they want to be understood. So, when you try to be understanding to some of their thinking, they knock you down. It's Jesus' name and no other that has lasted down the centuries and is revered for his teachings, healings, love, and miracles. He is revered for dying for ALL humanity.

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