Science & Technology

Rant

Internet Science, More Harm Than Good

Posted 8 months ago|16 comments|250 views
Written by
jickay
Canada
Knowledge has become democratized in modern society. This site is a great example of that. We read information passed on between individual people from all walks of life rather than just the sources of authority that used to reign supreme. Ranting and raving provide open opinions for debate, but a great deal of harm also comes from the internet.

A growing number of people are using the web to diagnose themselves, find solutions to their problems, or make a quick buck (so much spam...). All of this has caused a wide spread of information as the truth from people who are not trained or educated to hold that type of authority. It's good for those of us who have always wanted a voice, yet at the same time we overlook the power of our words. People have good intentions. My personal philosophy is that people do not want to hurt others, though that doesn't necessarily mean we want to help others. The same applies to the other side. We want to help others, though we don't necessarily think about the harm we may be doing.

One of the best and most recent examples of this is the vaccine-autism link. It had become so widespread that celebrities jumped on board and pushed it into the mainstream. Despite all of the overwhelming evidence against it and the fact that the original article was revoked the public is still pushing the motion.

Specialists are specialists for a reason. They spend many years and decades learning, developing and keep up with the information in their field. In comparison, people on the internet most likely have a full-time job that isn't in their area of 'research' and as a result spend a fraction of the time learning from unofficial sources. If the amount of depth and complexity was actually revealed to them it would probably blow their mind (though they would probably stubbornly stick to their opinion).

Given all of this, I won't deny that there are some specialists that are better than others. Some have ulterior motives or don't have the best intentions. Not all science is the truth, but for those of us who understand the scientific process we know it isn't meant to find the truth. At best it highlights falsehoods. Science makes a lot of mistakes and from those mistakes we get closer to obtaining the truth.

Knowledge is a human specialty. We love information and we are very good at making connections. Sometimes too good. Pointing fingers at things is very naive. There is no one cause of any one thing. Everything is part of a system and it is the way that everything works together that creates the changes that we see everyday.

Do keep in mind the next time you're searching for that next miracle diet, the instant cure, or that instant fix that you should take it with a grain of salt. Things that work and things that are true tend to stick around. Everything else is just a fad.

If you are one of those people trying to help others, be careful of what you post. You may think it is the best solution, but keep in mind that you may be doing harm as well. With great power comes great responsibility. Even when the power isn't that great the responsibility part still holds true.
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Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
8 months ago: Good advice to have a healthy skepticism. Still the internet is a remarkable tool.

I would like to see the expansion of information with larger databases on line. For example if we had a nationwide database that included all of the drugs that are out there, all of the side effects, the interactions with other drugs and foods, what it is supposed to cure, accepted protocols for treatment, and symptoms and possible illnesses.

As you noted sometimes information can be dangerous. If the above information was available people would be tempted to self medicate without going to see a doctor. Hypochondriacs would over medicate and people would misdiagnose themselves and their kids and others.

Perhaps the database could be layered so only nurses and doctors could access the dangerous stuff? Perhaps there could be artificial intelligence programs to help with diagnosis and these programs would provide triage for illnesses and it would direct the patient to see a doctor if there was a need?
8 months ago: "Perhaps the database could be layered so only nurses and doctors could access the dangerous stuff?"

Nooooooooooo!!!!! Please no. No teasers. If you are going to provide a database with all the info a person needs or desires to do the research, limiting it to "professionals" will negate the usefulness of the whole project. As it stands, these professionals already have a lot of that data at their beck and call and they keep the rest of us out of it so they can maintain the upper hand in doling out their diagnosis at premium prices and they really get offended if someone comes in and knows more about their own case than the "pro", some even withhold treatment out of spite, problem being the poor smuck needs those "pros" credentials to get the treatment, be it drugs or other "prescribed" items.

Would really like to see true free flow of information though.

As for people who take everything they read or see on the net as fact, grow up and use your own reasoning abilities once in a while, you might learn a thing or two.
8 months ago: Without doubt, people tend to believe too much of what they read online. Unfortunately, it is difficult to discern true expert advice sites from ordinary riff-raff.

In time, since we do not have Rating Agencies for Web Sites, most people will take everything they read online with a grain of salt. Fortunately, on the net, it's never difficult to get second opinion.
8 months ago: Come one Truthbrary, Huey Newton. You both seem to be good enough scientists to dispute this article. ;)
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
8 months ago: So the specialists are ... special. Hmmm. Sounds rather Orwellian if you ask me.

A god example of peole trying to help people, but yet causing unintentional harm, could be this very article. It cites "overwhelming evidence" as a rebuttal to a vaccine/autism link. And true, the overwhelm bandwagon has been jumped on so much that I had to wade through hundreds of articles on the innertubenetweb thingy to find this article, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20...
It was dated March 2011.

The article in the Journal of Immunotoxicology is entitled "Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes--A review." The author is Helen Ratajczak, surprisingly herself a former senior scientist at a pharmaceutical firm. Ratajczak did what nobody else apparently has bothered to do: she reviewed the body of published science since autism was first described in 1943. Not just one theory suggested by research such as the role of MMR shots, or the mercury preservative thimerosal; but all of them.

Other leading immunologists recognise Ratajczak's findings on brain damage and vaccines:

University of Pennsylvania's Dr. Brian Strom, who has served on Institute of Medicine panels advising the government on vaccine safety says the prevailing medical opinion is that vaccines are scientifically linked to encephalopathy (brain damage)

but are unable to make the connection between the two:

but not scientifically linked to autism. As for Ratajczak's review, he told us he doesn't find it remarkable. "This is a review of theories. Science is based on facts. To draw conclusions on effects of an exposure on people, you need data on people. The data on people do not support that there is a relationship. As such, any speculation about an explanation for a (non-existing) relationship is irrelevant."


Here's a real kicker:

Ratajczak also looks at a factor that hasn't been widely discussed: human DNA contained in vaccines. That's right, human DNA. Ratajczak reports that about the same time vaccine makers took most thimerosal out of most vaccines (with the exception of flu shots which still widely contain thimerosal), they began making some vaccines using human tissue. Ratajczak says human tissue is currently used in 23 vaccines. She discusses the increase in autism incidences corresponding with the introduction of human DNA to MMR vaccine, and suggests the two could be linked. Ratajczak also says an additional increased spike in autism occurred in 1995 when chicken pox vaccine was grown in human fetal tissue.


So maybe the mercury wasn't the culprit, maybe the thimerosol didn't cause the brain defects. It doesn't mean the vaccine itself was harmless. But thank God for the CDC, which hasn't disputed Ratajczak's findings as of yet. According to the CDC, that great bunch of specialists, "comprehensive review by CDC...would take quite a bit of time."

8 months ago: Fact is the danger is most pronounced in an under educated society. when we decided to cut all of those education budgets we virtually insured that the average American would not be intelligent enough to research the truth.

The ignorant masses are those most easily swayed by dogma and propaganda. thus the "Tea Party", And Scientology.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
8 months ago: Which education budget cuts are you referring to? When the Federal government contributes, on average, less than 10% of the total K-12 budget nationwide, the budget cuts are fairly superfluous. If you are referring to the State level budget cuts, as required by depressed revenue from the lengthy recession we are currently experiencing, then yes, it will definitely reduce the number of new computers, require schools to keep school buses in service rather than replacing them and cut some of the frills they have become accustomed to.

Back in my day (wheeze, koff, smack smack smack) when I was in school, the public school budget was 1/3 of what it is now, adjusted for inflation, and I recieved an edumacation superior, in my opinion, to the 7th grade level high school seniors of today.

What has happened to the school? Look at part of this article, the part about looking for a majic bullet cure-all, and educators being duped into trying the latest fad in instructional technique, at costs running into the tens of millions $$ per school district. Add in all the other Emperor's New Accessories, and you have school districts laying off teachers,while buying 2000 new Macbook Airs.

Ridiculous.
8 months ago: Jickay,

You say... "the guy who published the original study that caused all this mess revoked his paper and the journal" ...WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? Do you actually think that this post hinges upon an anonymous "guy" publishing a "paper" ...WAKE UP! There is a tidal wave of first hand testimonies backed by doctors that are named and published. To feature a few that are forcing the issue are those compensated by your government proving the "link" you are sweeping under the proverbial carpet. These are just a few of those who were not "paid enough" to keep their mouths shut...

EXCLUSIVE: Government Paid Millions to Vaccine-Injured Kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXp4hM3eQ...

...if you care to open your eyes and mind long enough to consider the real evidence, you wouldn't be so quick to poo-poo the facts! The government double-talk is par for the course... on one hand they say there is no link between autism and vaccines, and on the other they say definitely there is evidence and are paying out millions!!!

HERE is your case in a nutshell... the gov payed out millions for "brain damage" not necessarily "autism" ...WHAAAAAAAAT? We see our vaccines have damaged your kids brain... but seeing as your kid doesn't have "autism" there is no link???????? WAKE UP.

"...according to a study by Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy (EBCALA), at least 83 families received federal compensation for money for vaccine-related injuries. And each of the children in those 83 cases suffered from autism."
http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/morning/v...
8 months ago: Washington, DC (PRWEB) July 01, 2011

"The U.S Federal Vaccine Court awarded a $61 million settlement for a child who suffered a severe adverse reaction after an immunization. Vaccine attorneys at the law firm of Maglio Christopher & Toale, P.A., believed that the case was clearly a result of a reaction to the DTaP immunization. Court documents show that only hours after the baby received a routine diphtheria, tetanus and acellular pertussis (DTaP) vaccination, she started to have seizures, abnormal breathing, irregular heartbeats, and at 6:05am the next morning, her heart stopped completely. It took 6 minutes of CPR to revive her. She has spent that last 6 years of her life suffering from cognitive delays, cerebral palsy, encephalopathy, and seizure disorder. The family's attorneys say the $61 million dollar award will pay for the child's around the clock medical care for the rest of her life."
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/7/prw...

...who cares if they call it "autism" or brain damage, this diagnostic mumbo-jumbo won't get the medical malpractitioners off the hook!

Vaccines Cause Autism Evidence...
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Vaccines-Ca...
jickay
jickay
Canada
8 months ago: The autism-vaccine link seems to be a very sensitive topic. I only put it in the post as an example of how widespread the influence of the media can be when backed by the public. Whether or not there are other doctors willing to push the connection or whether there are pay-outs doesn't change how people overly abuse the internet as a source of authority when it may not be very accurate.

This particular case is still up in the air. Science is science, and like I stated, it isn't perfect. Maybe there is a connection, maybe there isn't. It takes time to sort these things out, but in the meanwhile it seems overly heinous to jump to conclusions and accept it as the absolute truth before the battle is won.

Everything is a push and pull. Liberal versus conservative, religion versus atheism, etc. Forces from multiple sides are constantly at odds with one another. I only want people to exercise caution when taking a side especially because many tend to focus more on one side than the other. It is best to take both sides equally before drawing conclusions, yet this is not usually how the public utilizes information. The impact of bias is always strong.

I'm not an advocate of either side of the vaccine debate, though I don't discount the benefits of vaccinations nor the potential harms. Every choice has its pros and cons. Caution is all I advocate for.
8 months ago: Jickay,

If it is caution you are an advocate for...
that is something we have in common.
8 months ago: My apologies Jickay for being so adamant, it is just that as a parent of 5, having 2 children that suffered adverse reactions from vaccines... and on going auto-immune issues, while the other 3 haven't been to a doctor in 18 plus years... I think I have something to say. It seems the media is presenting a "slam-dunk" on the side of medicine... let's remember it is called "medical practice"
...and we are the ones being practiced on!
jickay
jickay
Canada
8 months ago: Yep, they have to practice on someone. If it was a perfect world everything would be solved before implemented, but that's just not the case. I don't think there are perfect treatments, and if there are we aren't very close yet.

I have an auto-immune disease too so I sympathize. Sometimes I wish I had something or someone to blame. In the end I just have to accept it.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
8 months ago: I just have to call this one. Here is the opening argument, written as if from a seat of certainty:
"One of the best and most recent examples of this is the vaccine-autism link. It had become so widespread that celebrities jumped on board and pushed it into the mainstream. Despite all of the overwhelming evidence against it and the fact that the original article was revoked the public is still pushing the motion."

I wish I could underline the "all of the overwhelming evidence against it" part.
Then changed without a hitch to :

"This particular case is still up in the air. Science is science, and like I stated, it isn't perfect."

The author could be reminded not to fall into the same trap he is warning others about.

jickay
jickay
Canada
8 months ago: Biases huh? Can't get away from them.

I meant more to illustrate a point, though I do believe that vaccines do more good than harm. Doesn't mean it doesn't cause harm. We just aren't really sure of the level of risk.

I do find it strange that people discount the paper being revoked though. If someone came out and said Stephen Hawking revoked his paper on so-and-so theory I'm sure a lot of people would 'go back to the drawing board'. Yet with the vaccine paper it was like it didn't matter.
8 months ago: The Internet is a wonderful source of information. Both good and bad. There is no excuse anymore for folks to be uninformed. The information is right at the fingertips.

To whom much is given however, much is required.

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