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Rant

Goodbye, Cruel World

Posted 28 months ago|94 comments|831 views
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I've had it. I can bring facts and figures to the table until I'm blue in the face, it won't make a difference. To the majority of talkers here, I and everything I believe are the epitome of evil. You believe in scientific impossibilities, then conclude I'm in denial about your magical reality. You delude yourselves about everything from your numbers to how the world sees the current President.

I don't see a point to this conversation anymore. So this is it, I'm done. Goodbye, cruel world.

Feel free to comment below. This is the last thread in which I will reply to anything.
UPDATE - 22 months ago
I've had it. I can bring facts and figures to the table until I'm blue in the face, it won't make a difference. To the majority of talkers here, I and everything I believe are the epitome of evil. You believe in scientific impossibilities, then conclude I'm in denial about your magical reality. You delude yourselves about everything from your numbers to how the world sees the current President.

I don't see a point to this conversation anymore. So this is it, I'm done. Goodbye, cruel world.

Feel free to comment below. This is the last thread in which I will reply to anything.

Edit on 03/24/2010:
On probationary terms, I'm back. It's been half a year. How you guys doing?
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COMMENTS
28 months ago: Amazing.

Obamarama is downright evil.

You, heynn, are blinded.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
22 months ago: Have you ever tried to make a real argument or is the only thing your brain can muster when people have an opinion different than your own "Wake up" or "your blind"
28 months ago: Try turning red in the face too.
28 months ago: You can't handle the truth.
28 months ago: He is mad because I called over half of the worlds population lazy in another thread.
28 months ago: I agree Cypress. That's the problem with our country.
28 months ago: @TCG

You called populations made up mostly of dramatically impoverished people lazy. That was, indeed, the tipping point.

You're insane. I don't even feel the need to sugar-coat it anymore, since this is my last thread here and my last visit to this site. You and people like you genuinely believe the world's problems can be boiled down to laziness, liberalness, and a failure to believe in the right God. In your mind, diplomacy is a sign of weakness. Intelligence and book-learning are invalid, and science is wrong because it's too complicated for you to understand. It must drive you nuts that the millions and millions (actually about 50,000) of people who showed up at the teabagger party didn't convince everyone of your righteousness. Or maybe you believe it really did, and polls showing the Republican party less popular than open sewers are all lies. Whatever it is, you're living in a fantasy land, and there is no fact or data I could possibly present to you to convince you otherwise.

You know the truth already, in your gut, and that truth is set in stone for you. Once I realized that, I realized there was no reason in the world to come back here and argue with you. From now until forever, Saddam Hussein had something to do wth 9/11, all Muslims are terrorists, the only racists in America are black, and heck, let's say Barack Obama was born in Kenya for good measure. It's all lunatic.

I'm just glad about two things: 1) The rest of the country finally sees you guys as the nutballs you are, and 2) I figured out there's no point in arguing over any of it with you.

@Siempre

Oh, I don't feel discouraged. I feel relieved. For a little while, I asked myself in frustration, "don't they care at all about empirical reality?" To realize now that no, they don't, is a weight off my shoulders. There's no point to arguing with crazy people. It just frustrates me and annoys the crazy person.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: Oh well. It's been fun. We'll keep a light on for you. Just in case.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
28 months ago: HNN, your frustration is totally understandable and if your mission here is to convince hardcore partisans like RSG to change their mindset, you might well as be banging your head against the wall. I'd be gone in seconds if that was the mission here.

As I see it though, your posts and comments have provided some necessary balance and alternative perspectives for the people who don't post/comment and/or haven't made up their mind, as well for the people who will read or study these archives in the future. As I see it, that's the real mission here - perspective, balance, and facts.

By throwing in the towel, the hardcase ideologues here will count it as an epic win because they will continue to push their one sided ideology and have one less worry about being challenged with some inconvenient facts that topples the house of partisan cards.

Instead of saying goodbye, take regular breaks to dial down until you're ready to resume the Rant Rave information 'wars'.
28 months ago: Siempre:

Your posts lately are an often audible discharge of intestinal gas. Very, very smelly too.

Mark:

It is no win for me that heynnn is leaving. I will miss her.

She, like all other liberals, just cannot face the truth. Like Siempre, she creates her own world and cannot, under any circumstance, allow any information in that will upset her apple cart. We were starting to get through to her, and she could not let that happen. It is too uncomfortable for her.

Neynn.

I can only speak for myself.

For what little it is worth, you have taught me to respect liberals and socialists that I actually interact with as Americans. You are sincere and honest. You're dead wrong, but your sincerety, honesty and passion are apparent.

Before you sign off, please realize and understand you get get both barrels. Big time. Exclusively. There is noone else for me to deliver on in my real life. Except for Mark, Al, Chris and very few others, you stand up and take it. You were the lead liberal dog. Up until now, you never backed down. (You were 98% dead wrong though.)

Also, please understand each day I watch what I perceive is complete idiocy, surrender and destruction of the country I love all the live long day, each day, and I come home and meet you on rantrave.com.

To me, you are obamarama, dingy harry reid, nancy communist pelosi, ted i'm dead kennedy, pervert clinton, suit pants clinton, cheating jesse jackson, michael moore, barbara streisand, algur, CNN, PMSNBC, Hugo Chavez, those damn war protestors that quit protesting the war when obamaram became president, etc., all rolled up into one.

You were also my liberal friends that I talk about the weather or Tennessee football with.

For what it is worth, I am sorry.

Can I have a second chance?
28 months ago: Mark, that's nice of you to say, but I highly doubt that whether I stay or go will make any difference in the end. I like RantRave, it's a nice little corner of the internet, but it's just becoming, to me at least, a place where people who out and out deny reality come to, well, rant and rave. Birtherism, the phantom millions of teabaggers, everyone hates the public option (polls to the contrary be damned), the absolute, unwavering certainty that they are right, without any justification whatsoever... Why come here to argue with ideas that are demonstrably nuts? Might as well start arguing with people who think the Earth's flat or hollow. Any rational person who looks at this stuff is going to instantly dismiss them as wackos... And anyone who already agrees with them isn't going to be convinced by your or my logic, statistics, and facts.

Take redstateguy... On a few occasions, when there has been utter, absolute, undeniable proof that he is wrong about something, to his credit he has grudgingly admitted it. I think one of those instances was concerning the very content of the Constitution. Anyway, being demonstrably wrong, and even admitting that he was demonstrably wrong, in no way detracted from his certainty that he is right about everything. As I said above, it's a "gut" thing. People who go with their gut feelings, rather than facts, cannot be reasoned with or argued with, so why take the time and effort to try?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: "I highly doubt that whether I stay or go will make any difference in the end."

You may get discouraged in this world of instant gratification which we live in. Everyone believes in flipping a switch, and seeing the light come on instantly. We here at rant/rave rarely flip switches.

More likely we plant seeds, that take time to sprout, grow, mature and bear fruit.

I love it when I have a discussion with an opposing viewpoint, and then, months later the same person comes to me and tries to convince me of the point I was making in the first place. They think they had an epiphany, but I know it was the seed I planted coming to fruition.

Remember the Butterfly Effect. Who knows? Your posts may just yield a tornado of "enlightenment" to countless others around you, even to those whom you have written off as hopeless. Maybe.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: P.S. If you delete this post soon, it won't be archived. ;)
28 months ago: heynn.

Your absolute, unwavering certainty that you are right, without any justification whatsoever (in my eyes) doesn't stop me responding to you.
28 months ago: Hiya, redstateguy. I try to make a point of including my justifications in every rant, rave, and comment. I cite my sources, use statistics I didn't just pull out of my hat, and so on. So perhaps I do have unwavering certainty that I am right, but I'm hardly lacking in justification. Your typical response here, when I've provided a given fact or figure, is to simply say that I'm wrong. You don't provide any facts or figures to counter mine, or point to flaws in my logic, or do anything to undermine my argument.

Seriously, go back over any of our conversations. They typically go like this:

ME: [Fact or figure, citation to a reputable poll or source, etc.]
YOU: You're wrong. [Optional: Misquote from the Constitution]
ME: [Further facts, additional statistics, and the actual text from the Constitution.]
YOU: Wrong, wrong, wrong. Oh, and socialism.
ME: [Logical argumentation, explanations, further facts and figures.]
YOU: Boy oh boy, wrong. Blue-colored glasses. Obamarama.

If just once, just once, you had used logic and reason to sway me, we might not be having this conversation now.
JAK Gladney
JAK Gladney
Saint Albans, WV
28 months ago: I don't know what to say, HNN. Maybe you should look at these posts as a conversation. Sometimes a long, soul-wearying conversation. Sometimes a monologue.

I feel that this is where smug, self-satisfied liberalism can be fortifying. The more unreasonable conservatives here live in an echo chamber: a site like this is their bunker. When you leave, they retreat back into their safe little nest. Traditional media doesn't do it's job; debate is learned at the schools of Beck or O'Reilly; soundbites and chain emails pass for an informed public. Posters like you, me, Siempre, Altruist and mark are it (sorry, mark: we've drafted you): we're behind enemy lines, and the cavalry isn't coming. This is their primary point-of-contact for our worldview--not the straw-man they get daily from shock-jock punditry. It's a pretty large burden to bear, but you've known that since you joined this site. None of us can stop you from leaving, but you make our job that much more difficult--and dreary--if you do. Your contribution here is more important, in the larger exchange of ideas, than I think you know.
28 months ago: JAK, that's an interesting way to look at it, but I'm not sure that's why I came to this site, really. This is supposed to be a discussion forum for many topics, but lately it's been boiling down to just a few:

* Barack Obama
* Health care
* Race

Those are fascinating topics, but we're starting to get repetitious.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
28 months ago: HeyNoni. I am sad that you are leaving. As Mark said you are the best at well documented rational progressive responses. Without you this site will be woefully one sided and boring.
It is indeed frustrating responding to the often irrational rants of the conservatives, because facts and logical arguments are shed like water off a ducks back. I personally think that for many conservatives, their world views are more of a religion based upon faith than their actual religions. How else can you explain the contradictions between the sermon on the mount and free market capitalism, between the hawkishness and disdain for the poor and Jesus's words of love for the least of his children.
Facts and reason do not penetrate through faith.
I would encourage you to turn your talents to writing or something similar and try to affect a much greater audience. You are brilliant, a wonderful researcher, and your head is in the right space.
Good luck to you in whichever endeavor you turn your talents to, and remember to have fun!
28 months ago: heynnnnnn.

I volunteer to quit rantrave.com and go elsewhere if that will help you.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
22 months ago: Peace
28 months ago: HeyNoni,

I will do the same.

RSG, let me know where the rally point is located.
28 months ago: Cypress.

Ditto.
28 months ago: No, redstateguy and TCG, don't leave a site you both obviously love and enjoy on my account. My decision to leave has been percolating for a while, and I'm not changing my mind. As others have hinted at, perhaps I can be useful elsewhere.

Altruist, you're remarkably perceptive: While I do have a day job, my real profession is writing. I'm good at research because I need to be. While I haven't tried my hand at writing political essays outside RantRave, perhaps now is the time to try.

Well, folks... it's been fun, and informative. See you in the funny pages.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: RSG and Cypress,

I've known for a while that beneath the bluster you are both men of honor and courage. Also, it was obvious that you hold HNN in high regard, and enjoyed the challenge he presented. Your offers to symbolically fall on your swords proves that, and is an offer I have heretofore not seen when someone has gotten fed up and quit in the past. Usually it's "Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya."

Says a lot for the both of you, and for Noni's status as an adversary. Many opposing generals have developed an extreme affection and respect for their counterpart, and an admiration of a worthy opponent.

Noni, sorry to see you go.

Now let's get back to Rant'n and Rave'n.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
28 months ago: While I wish HNN the best in her future endeavors and a reconsideration to rejoin the fray in the future, I'll end my contribution to this topic by saluting all the Rant Ravers and to re-post a thought from a previous topic, this is one the few sites where there's a healthy balance of viewpoints with passionate but generally intelligent & civil dialogue.

Even the most ideologically minded people here set themselves them apart by their willingness to engage in debate with their opposites and express their opinion knowing that harsh criticism (fair or not) is sure to come.

No doubt HNN has the talent to be a featured writer on a site like Huffington Post but I think a partisan writing for a partisan friendly website is a step down because the writer is limiting their audience to sycophants and the ability to forge ideas & propositions though cross-examination is lost.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress”...Joseph Joubert (French Essayist and moralist)

“I love argument, I love debate. I don't expect anyone just to sit there and agree with me, that's not their job.”...Margaret Thatcher (British Politician and Former Prime Minister)

*TWEET* *TWEET*
28 months ago: heynnnn.

Will you let us know where you are going?

I promise to behave there..... or promise not to post anything there.


outa box.

How do you know heynn is a he?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: RedStateGuy, two quotes from Dave Cobb's Rave entitled "What I've Learned". Dave has deleted his account, so the article is no longer there, and I tried to find an archive of it, but no luck. Luckily, I have a photographic memory, (and tons of hard drive).

The two quotes together indicate he is male.

The topic was homosexuality
"It's natural. It's not natural for *you*, because (presumably) you're straight. It wouldn't be natural for me, either, as I'm straight."

"Run that through a sniff check. You like women, right? I know I do. It's not something you have to consciously focus on, right? In fact, if you're anything like me, it's something you have to specifically ignore in order to get any work done."

There you go.
28 months ago: outta box.

Whoa.

I'm glad I'm not going away.

You are very perceptive, and I have much to learn from you.

I presumed he was a she, because her....his positions are based so much on emotion and do-gooder, feel good positions. More emotional than rational.

Women are more emotional in their decision making.

That is another example of how I am unable to understand liberals. But with your help.........
28 months ago: Oh yea.

If I had known she was a he, I would not have been so nice to her.....him I mean.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: Nah, you knew he was a he. You're just jankin' him.

Thanks for the compliment. I can feel my head getting bigger already. We all have a lot to learn to learn from each other, like Markbyrn said, if you talk only with people that agree with you all the time, you learn nothing.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
28 months ago: I had presumed female on the name but it does say male on his profile - obviously wasn't hiding it. No diff unless you were fawning over her, err him :)
28 months ago: We all can learn from each other, that is what is great about the internet in general.

Everybody thinks they are right, it is human nature. Sometimes we are right sometimes we are wrong.
The wonderful thing about the first admendment is no matter if you are right, wrong or a total lunatic you get to say what you believe.

That is something not everyone gets to do.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you should stop trying to explain your point of view.
I started off as a rather left leaning person in my youth during college. Life experiences made me more conservative. I believe I have evidence from history, other countries that prove my point of view. But I do like to know what others believe, cause I know I am not the font of all knowing wisdom.

If you feel you have something valuable to give others then do it, who cares what anyone else says. If you leave then who will provide a different viewpoint, if everyone on the conservative side are dead wrong then keep fighting the good fight.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
28 months ago: Noni,
Thanks for not taking your account down, as so many others have done in the past when they get discouraged and leave. You had quite a few good comments and at least one good post. ;-) So now it'll be here for all to see, and to reference when necessary.

You have been a worthy opponent. R.I.P.
Meredith
Meredith
Grand Rapids, MI
23 months ago: I'm new to Rant Rave and catching up on some old posts. I thought you might find this interesting.

Do you remember the show All In the Family? Two of the main characters were Archie Bunker, an older man harboring deep-seeded bigotry, and his son-in-law Mike, a liberal, equal rights proponent who was always at odds with Archie. It turns out there was a study done on regular viewers of this show, and the results are a bit surprising and relevant to your frustrations.

The writer of the show created Bunker to be an over-the-top racist to point out how ridiculous this point of view was - pure satire at its best. The study titled, Archie Bunker's Bigotry: A Study in Selective Perception and Exposure, looked at some of the shows most frequent viewers and fans and found that these individuals actually agreed with Archie's absurdities and believed his character to regularly 'win out' over the liberal, Mike.

The study asserts that we seek out the media that we are predisposed to agree with, and in turn, that media reinforces our belief systems. Two people with two different sets of ideals can watch the same thing, hear the same facts, and come away with two completely different perceptions. Take for example Steven Colbert's show. Conservatives see Steven as giving them a bit of a hard time now and then, but believe he's truly a conservative at heart. Liberals see Colbert's show as deeply entrenched satire and a slap in the face to the conservative community.

The study is lengthy, but it's an interesting read. It makes me wonder, as you seem to be, if debating, even with pure factual information is worth while. Either way, your opinion is valid, and there are those who see things as you do. Remember too that those who are willing to spend time to Rant are those who are displeased - those who are pleased rarely take the time to say so.

Here's a link to the study:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journ...
22 months ago: Oh my, I never expected to see another comment on this thread. I was just taking a peek at it on a lark. I'm familiar with that study... Fascinating stuff, but I highly doubt any steadfast bigot of the Archie Bunker persuasion would ever accept it as true... Facts literally don't matter to them, unless they're in support of their preconceptions.

Take the health care bill that just passed, for example. I could list all the good things in it -- heck, I could recite passages from it verbatim -- but there are people here who will never believe it contains anything but communism and death panels -- hence my overall departure from this site.

On the other hand... here I am. At least, in this thread. And I was obviously curious enough to poke my head in and see what's going on. Perhaps I'm ready for another argument.
scotmanster
scotmanster
22 months ago: Considering Mike was a absolute idiot I do see how the everyday liberal can relate to him :D
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Yay!!! For real, dude.
22 months ago: Hey, OOTB, long time no see. Still wrong about everything, I presume? ;)
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Yeah, and on that thought I'll just say we always had a lot in common. Glad to see you back.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: Welcome back HNN!

*TWEET* *TWEET*
22 months ago: Hiya, Mark. Can't say for sure that I'm really back... This *is* the one thread I said I'd continue responding in, after all.

But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't considering it. Talking about the last six months of changes in the political landscape sounds fun.
22 months ago: How was the fishing trip? No. What will be fun is talking about the changes to the political landscape in the next 8 months.
22 months ago: Hiya, TCG. Yeah, that sounds fun, too, especially considering the boost in poll numbers Obama and the Democrats are currently enjoying. We'll see how much of a bloodbath it will be for Republicans when death panels and mandatory abortion fail to materialize between now and November.

Egads, you're sucking me back in.
22 months ago: Boost in poll numbers? A boost, a minor boost, a medium boost, a lukewarm boost or a major boost? Even if your pools are correct they are still in the tank. Speaking polls of course.
22 months ago: It's a modest one, but it does put Obama back above 50% approval: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup...

I'm having trouble finding the Congressional Dems/Congressional Reps polls at the moment, but I'll post 'em when I find 'em.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: Here's the poll on support for the health care bill passage: 49% for, 40% against, and 11% no opinion.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-M...
22 months ago: Thank you, I was looking for that. Also, I note from many news stories that a lot of the drop in support for the bill was from liberals who felt it didn't do enough (no public option, etc.), not from the frothing right, who were never gonna support it anyway.

Looking forward to quick passage of the House fixes for the bill, then watching my parents become insured for the first time in their lives.
22 months ago: Huh?

What boost?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: ..We'll see how much of a bloodbath it will be for Republicans..

In lieu of another humiliating election defeat, the home states of TCG and RSG are going to secede and declare victory. In fact, the Tennessee legislature is at this moment voting to ignore to ignore health-care mandates:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/mar/22...

I imagine they won't be the only Red State to do that.
22 months ago: Gloating aside, I don't think it's actually going to be a bloodbath for anyone, unless things get markedly better or markedly worse economically between now and November. Realistically speaking, I think in a few months the new insurance system will become the accepted norm, and certainly there aren't any Republicans who will be willing to run on repealing health insurance for kids, so the sound and fury of the last year will finally die down, and the economy will become the issue of the day.
22 months ago: Oh, hey, I just found something I can gloat over, or at least chuckle about: http://www.rantrave.com/Rave/Socialized-...

Good call, redstateguy. Good call.
22 months ago: HEYNONI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome Home.

I've honestly missed you. Have you noticed I've been talking about you?

Al's getting pretty good at ignoring me.


Hey Mark:

HOW BOUT THEM VOLS?
22 months ago: Heh, thanks! I should go back and look at some of your old posts. Where have you been talking about me?
22 months ago: It may be easier to tell you when I didn't talk about you.

Mr. Layton.

Is there anyway to search "heynoni" on past rants and raves?
Chris D
Chris D
Seattle, WA
22 months ago: Hey, did you know that the RantRave search has a box for "author"?

http://rantrave.com/search.aspx
22 months ago: Mark, ? Huh. Gallop...

The findings, from a March 22 USA Today/Gallup poll conducted one day after the bill received a majority of votes in the U.S. House of Representatives, represent immediate reactions to the vote

Would that poll have been taken while we were at work paying for Perfect Horizons education?
22 months ago: That's a novel conspiracy theory. "They're polling in the daytime, when we're at work!"
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
22 months ago: You don't pay for my education...I do.

I'm sure the poll is wrong since it doesn't align with your views right?
22 months ago: Stay away from the mushrooms and the looking glass, Alice.
scotmanster
scotmanster
22 months ago: Technically the tax payer does pay for your education upfront if you took out federal student loans and if you default on that loan the taxpayer is stuck holding the bag.
22 months ago: Novel or truth? Don't dig too long looking for people talking behind your back. We can do it to your face.
22 months ago: "They're calling while we're having dinner! Conspiracy!"

"They're calling on the weekend when we're out! Conspiracy!"

"They're calling at any freakin' hour of the day! Conspiracy!"

I'm sorry, I don't mean to make fun of you, but that's a darn silly conspiracy theory.
22 months ago: Heynnn.

Try to consider this. Hard.

When the phone rings during dinner, it is telemarketers trying to catch the family gathered together.

When the phone rings on the weekend, it is debt collectors trying to corner the breadwinner.

When someone wants to reach people who depend on the government to give them everything, when do you think they call?

You think pollsters are pure as the climate change driven snow?
22 months ago: OK, I've considered it. I still think it's plum silly. I've been called by pollsters before, and the calls were during dinner, just like with telemarketers. I even almost hung up on one because I thought it was a telemarketer.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
22 months ago: Didn't you look at poll data to determine that the vast majority of American's were against health care reform? Why were these polls ok? Because they highlighted a point you were trying to make? But when the same poll shows that 49% approve of the law now and only 40% disapprove then this poll is useless. Interesting.
22 months ago: That's a prime example why I left in the first place: Logical inconsistency. That the earlier polls indicated the loss of support was from liberals who wanted a public option didn't matter... All that mattered was that on the surface, the polls seemed to support the idea that America didn't want reform. Now that 1) it's obvious Americans want reform, and 2) they like what they see in the bill now that its actual content is getting through the noise... Well, now polls aren't to be trusted.

That sort of silly logical inconsistency makes it hard to see why I should engage in debate. On the other hand... Maybe, with enough effort, some actual logic will get through. Maybe it's worth the effort, if I can reach just one person. Maybe.
22 months ago: ...That sort of silly logical inconsistency makes it hard to see why I should engage in debate...

Maybe you couldn't debate that sill logic. If you could you would. Sorry Noni.

Glad you and Perfect met though. Peas in a Pod.
22 months ago: That's sort of like saying I shouldn't be hesitant to debate someone's contention that 2+2=5. When someone believes polls that agree with him are fine and polls that disagree are a conspiracy, what's the point of arguing?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Yeah, but that's also consistent with the libs saying that Brown got elected because the libs in Massachusetts were trying to send a message to the rest of the Democrats to "either get more liberal, or we're just going to elect Republicans."

And the one I liked best, where they said the polls that leaned against health care reform indicated that the people thought the reform just wasn't going far enough into our private business.
scotmanster
scotmanster
22 months ago: Anyone knows ANY POLL can be very biased right down to the questions they ask and how they ask them. The geographic region alone can make a poll biased. It is not a good measure of popular opinion and it is certainly not used as an end all means and that is that nothing more to discuss. What is silly is you putting your full trust in polling data usually coming from the media that wants to sway your opinion. It is amazing when you shutoff the TV and stop getting fed the propaganda.
scotmanster
scotmanster
22 months ago: The above comment was meant for Heynoni.

As to logical inconsistencies that is something you will have to deal with the rest of your life. If everyone had that frame of mind we would be all be a bunch of hermits talking to ourselves becuase of-course our view is the only correct view! It is what is called being anti-social becuase people are so prideful they believe their medicine is the best and only medicine. It is like when someone gives someone a verbal jab and they take it as a compliment becuase the listeners pride hears what they want to hear. Either way wish you well while your young in avoiding logical inconsistencies you have your rest of your life to deal with it.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: HNN, Just treat the inexorable theocons as mere foils to help educate the masses that will no doubt research these archives for years to come; you'll convince far more than one. As long as it's not a chore, contribute as you have the time and enjoy the 'wild and woolly ride'.
22 months ago: See, I never bought that with Brown. The Democrat ran a lousy race, and the Democratic base didn't show up at the polls. That's it.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: You may not have bought it, but I can't count the number of times I was told that by a Liberal, who just couldn't admit that their side actually lost the Liberal Lion's seat, without making up some mythical deeper meaning to it all.

And the interpretation to the polls indicating Americans weren't happy with health reform because it wasn't intrusive enough? I heard about them, but I never saw them.
22 months ago: How could you not have seen them? Every polling outfit (except Rasmussen) had a breakdown of *why* the health care bill was losing ground, and it was entirely due to liberals who wanted the public option. How could you have missed that?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: OK, as a man of honor, I can see that you are keeping the word of the last line in your OP.

We, however, unanimously agree to let you off the hook, as it is not going to work with all of us having to come back to this thread to figh...er, discuss things. What are you trying to do, beat Rudi's record for most replies? Hee hee.

Even I broke silence with Siempre (after he reincarnated, anyway) and we went on to many more glorious discussions. So come on in, the water's still hot.

Hmmmm. An afterthought just struck. You wouldn't have just dropped in to say, "The health care bill passed! Told you it would! Told you, told you, tooooold you, noni noni naaaani!!", now would you? ;-)
22 months ago: Well, I *did* tell you (thpthpthpthp and all that), but that's not why I poked my head in. I was doing a bookmark purge, and found I still have RantRave bookmarked. I decided to take a look to see if my profile had been deleted, and noticed someone (Meredith) had replied to this post recently.

And what the hey(noninoni), I figured I'd reply to her. Then you all showed up, and boom, we're figh... having a civil political discussion all over again. :)
Meredith
Meredith
Grand Rapids, MI
22 months ago: Welcome back, Noni. We can use a few more lefties around here to shake things up a bit. Otherwise this whole thing would be a terribly boring one-sided conversation! I hope to hear more from you!
22 months ago: You might, you might. I'm still considering. Even if I do come back, I couldn't be as frequent a poster or commentator as I was, as I have other writing-related commitments now.
22 months ago: Thanks Meredith.

You get a bonus point.
22 months ago: Heynoni:

My offer remains.

I'll agree to leave for a long while too.
22 months ago: Nah, I never wanted that. Well, I did when I thought you were just an internet troll (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling), but that's a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: Red

Don't even think about it. You ain't going nowheres.
22 months ago: HeyNoni, I haven't had a chance to read all the comments yet (and may not). But speaking as a person who has unwillingly had to put RR lower on the priority list, temporarily anyway, I suspect you will feel better after a bit of rest and relaxation away from R&R (is that a twist or what).
I can certainly understand the burn out but hopefully you will take a couple of aspirin and be back in a few weeks or so. If not though I hope the blue bird of paradise smiles on all your endeavors. Jakarta.
22 months ago: Uhh, actually, I'm back *now*. I wrote this post six months ago.
22 months ago: Wow, I got farther behind on RR than I thought. Gotta stop taking my Ni-quil and energy drinks so close. Well anyway welcome back, we'll sure miss ya........er never mind.....where's my Red Bull....
Meredith
Meredith
Grand Rapids, MI
22 months ago: Sorry, Noni. I didn't intend to open Pandora's box for you!
22 months ago: Hee! No problem, I'm enjoying myself. Gotta say, I've kind of missed this lovable bunch of loons.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
 Philadelphia, PA
22 months ago: Glad to see you had a change of heart Noni, we've lost some good soldiers, namely Coloranter_Raver, for whom my fingers are still crossed, but it good to see some people still enjoy our company!

Welcome Back, don't take what RSG says personally/seriously this time around, it'll give you ulcers!
22 months ago: Oh, I'm definitely through taking him seriously. He's just a big ol' cuddly ball of silly, wrapped in partisanship with a dash of credulousness (what with all those bogus emails he's always posting).
22 months ago: prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
22 months ago: Hey red, curious about something... With all those bogus emails -- you know, the ones I keep showing you are hoaxes -- do you ever wonder if maybe you should stop paying attention to them? Maybe you should try this: Go through your old email, and read one of them from maybe two or three years ago. Just pick one at random. Did it turn out to be true? Or was it wrong and/or a hoax like the rest of them?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
15 months ago: HeyNoniNoni, we're still talking about you. You still in the ethernet?
6 months ago: Nothing worth responding to, eh?

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