Science & Technology

Rant

Global Warming Skepticism Reviewed

Posted 36 months ago|21 comments|1,621 views
Written by
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
A fellow RantRaver and I have dueled, in the verbal sense, on the topic of global warming. The Cypress Gang has been decidedly in the skeptic camp, and I am decidedly in the "it's inevitable" camp. I appreciate the skepticism. I think it is healthy. I am a relatively unabashed skeptic most of the time. I tend to need proof of things. So, I thank Cypress Gang for the opportunity to evaluate and comment on sources he has found which he sees as supporting a case that humans are not the cause of global warming. I hope by evaluating each of these sources he has found, reading them thoroughly, and commenting, I can shed some light on this complex issue.

For those new to the thread, I am a BA in Bio/Chem, MA in Technology, and am a 20 year veteran of teaching bio and chem at the high school level and freshman college level.

US Government Sites:
_________________________________________________________
EPA (U.S. site) http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/
_________________________________________________________
Here's a reprint of a few paragraphs from the EPA site:

"For over the past 200 years, the burning of fossil fuels, such as coal and oil, and deforestation have caused the concentrations of heat-trapping 'greenhouse gases' to increase significantly in our atmosphere. These gases prevent heat from escaping to space, somewhat like the glass panels of a greenhouse. Greenhouse gases are necessary to life as we know it, because they keep the planet's surface warmer than it otherwise would be. But, as the concentrations of these gases continue to increase in the atmosphere, the Earth's temperature is climbing above past levels. According to NOAA and NASA data, the Earth's average surface temperature has increased by about 1.2 to 1.4ºF in the last 100 years. The eight warmest years on record (since 1850) have all occurred since 1998, with the warmest year being 2005. Most of the warming in recent decades is very likely the result of human activities. Other aspects of the climate are also changing such as rainfall patterns, snow and ice cover, and sea level. If greenhouse gases continue to increase, climate models predict that the average temperature at the Earth's surface could increase from 3.2 to 7.2ºF above 1990 levels by the end of this century. Scientists are certain that human activities are changing the composition of the atmosphere, and that increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases will change the planet's climate. But they are not sure by how much it will change, at what rate it will change, or what the exact effects will be."
source: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basicinfo.htm

The only thing the EPA leaves to speculation is the exact impact of the climate change. No one on earth has developed a model sophisticated enough to be sure what will happen. But all evidence leads to the conclusion that something will happen, and it is likely that it won't be good for most of the animal life on the planet.
_________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html
_________________________________________________________

This page states, "There is a high level of confidence that the global average temperature during the last few decades was warmer than any comparable period during the last 400 years. Present evidence suggests that temperatures at many, but not all, individual locations were higher during the past 25 years than any period of comparable length since A.D. 900. However, uncertainties associated with this statement increase substantially backward in time."

Again, that seems pretty clear. The rest of the page provides all sorts of data showing the rise in carbon dioxide levels and right states that as the temperature of the oceans rise, the solubility of carbon dioxide decreases adding insult to injury.
_________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/SORCE/sorce_04.php
_________________________________________________________

This is a fascinating page because it suggests that activity on the sun may be increasing the amount of solar energy arriving on earth from our own personal nuclear fusion reactor some 93,000,000 miles away. The irony of the source is that some might draw the conclusion that the sun, not humans, is therefore responsible for global warming – and literally, the sun is.

However, were it not for the earth's atmosphere the majority of the energy of the sun would be radiated back to space (one of those pesky laws of thermodynamics is that heat always flows from a hot to a colder body and space is infinitely colder than a hot planet). Fortunately, the atmosphere blanketing the earth prevents some of the energy from escaping the earth providing us with hospitable temperatures over vast regions. Yet as the article continues, "most scientists predict the release of greenhouse gases from the burning of fossil fuels will continue to block a larger and larger percentage of outgoing thermal radiation emanating from the Earth." Which of course is the problem. If the sun is releasing even more energy due to sun spot activity, and we are increasing the thickness of the blanket that is our atmosphere, well, you can see the problem could be even more catastrophic than it otherwise might have been. Maybe the earth would be fully capable of restoring balance despite having the volume of carbon dioxide that took 400 million years to fix in animal and plant matter now converted to oil, coal, and natural gas, suddenly being released in a flash of under 400 years – though it's terribly difficult to see how that would be possible; but with the added energy from the sun, this restoration of equilibrium would be all the more challenging for animal life on the planet.
_________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html
_________________________________________________________

Coloranter Raver: I'm guessing this page from NASA was appealing because it talks about how the climate of Mars is indeed changing, something, apparently some people thought impossible given the apparent lifelessness of the planet. You see, anti-global warming rhetoric hinges on the premise that humans couldn't possibly be responsible for the climate change and, therefore, don't need to change their lifestyles or habits of driving Hummers which get 12 miles to the gallon or burning up every brick of coal on the planet to air-condition the casinos in Las Vegas. The irony of this to people and scientists who believe global warming is inevitable if we don't change and soon, is that they know that the earth's climate has been changing since the planet was formed. They do not dispute that the earth's climate changes. The evidence of the past ice age some 40,000 years ago is pretty darn compelling. How else did all that fresh water get into the Great Lakes? So, no one is disputing that the earth's climate is changing – expect maybe those who still aren't quite sure the earth is older than 4,000 years of course. The questions rather are how much has our population explosion from a few million to seven billion and our petrochemical dependency begun to change the earth's climate and atmosphere, will the earth be able to rebound from these changes or will it warm up to a point where animal life on earth is extinguished, and is there anything we can do to prevent this from happening because not only will it be the end of the Polar Bears, it will be the end of Homo sapiens?

Therefore, the reasoning that the earth's climate or the Martian climate has always been changing is immaterial. There's no doubt that earth, which was once a hot, molten planet with no liquid water, and an atmosphere mostly consisting of hydrogen sulfide gas, water gas, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen gas, has changed quite a bit since then. The planet has cooled considerably causing the water gas to condense and rain for millions of years until it cooled enough to form the oceans. Photosynthetic life evolved producing free oxygen for the first time and causing one of the greatest mass extinctions in earth's 3-billion year history as nearly all anaerobic life was killed by this newly abundant gas. This photosynthetic life removed carbon dioxide from the atmosphere which reduced its presence and further cooled the planet to a point where animal life would become possible. So, the question remains, how eager are we now to gamble with the possibility that we are setting or already have set the earth on a new course that will wipe out all current animal life as we know it?
_________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
_________________________________________________________
This piece in National Geographic Magazine relates to the NASA report mentioned above. In this case, "Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun."

I believe I've addressed this. The bad news is that if the sun is releasing even more energy and warming the earth and Mars more than it was, the impact of our increasing of the carbon dioxide blanket in our atmosphere is all the more perilous, and not the other way around.

Ironically, if Mr. Abdussamatov is correct, his ideas are being used incorrectly. Let's suppose that in 1945, post WWII, all nations on earth agreed to go solar. And we never went Big Oil/ Coal / Gas. And we therefore, were contributing far less to the CO2 blanket. Bravo! Unfortunately, again, if Mr. Abdussamatov is correct, we could have a global warming problem on our hands that we'd still need to fix. Is it not apparent to human beings across the planet that if the earth gets too hot, the climate and life on the planet will be in trouble? We need food people! If vast regions of the planet that used to be the earth's bread baskets all dry up and die, if the oceans swell and cover low level land, and so on, it's going to be a problem that makes Hurricane Katrina look like a High School musical. So, again if Mr. Abdussamatov is correct, we have all the more reason to be alarmed and mobilize our ability to decrease the carbon dioxide levels immediately.
_________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Polish-Academy-of-Sciences-Questions-Gores-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory-43618922.html
_________________________________________________________

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this treatise by the Polish Academy of Sciences. There work and words are scientifically accurate and compelling.

They begin by stating the obvious, the earth's climate has always been changing. Again, that is not a fact in dispute. They point out the most recent ice age, in fact. Again, that is not in dispute. Their focus point is that the earth is simply in a warming period as it has experienced countless times in the past. And, they may well be correct. The earth may be in a normal warming period following the last ice age. Then they state that there is no evidence that man is responsible for this current temperature change. They come to this conclusion because they cannot seem to find any causality between this natural warming cycle and the activity of human beings. They, in fact, seem to conclude that the earth just chugs along doing its own thing regardless of human activity. They do, however make this small note, " There is no doubt that a certain part of the rise of the level of greenhouse gases, specifically CO2, is associated with human activity therefore, steps should be taken to reduce the amount on the basis of the principles of sustainable development, a cease of extensive deforestation, particularly in tropical regions. It is equally important to take up and pursuit appropriate adapting actions that will mitigate the effects of the current warming trend." If that's not one of the most ironic final paragraphs, I don't know what is. "There is no doubt," they say, "that a certain part of the rise...is associated with human activity." Anyone hoping that the Polish Academy of Sciences was going to force Al Gore to stand down need only read that last paragraph. I'm guessing most people who read the article, didn't get that far. I'm a big fan of reading entire articles. I'm also a fan of studying motivations for writing them in the first place for that can often be more revealing than the articles themselves.

_________________________________________________________


Final Summation:

In any case, what the PAS and many, many other reputable scientists who would call into question human causation for any degree of global warming is a very simple and irrefutable construct. I've written it dozens of time on this site and others for the previous 5 years.

[in all caps for emphasis]

IT TOOK OVER 400 MILLION YEARS TO TRAP THE GIANT QUANTITY OF CARBON DIOXIDE GAS IN THE ORGANIC MOLECULES OF OUR EARTH'S TOTAL SUPPLY OFOIL, COAL, AND NATURAL GAS. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE RESULT WILL BE OF RELEASING EVEN 20% LET ALONE 100% OF THAT QUANTITY IN JUST 300 YEARS. NO ONE.

No one knows but any child who's ever ridden a see-saw with a kid a lot bigger than he knows that when you put an extreme pressure on something that was balanced, the result is compelling. You are now suddenly stuck up in the air with no way to get down.

No one wants to talk about this, not even Al Gore. I'm guessing the reason is that it's very fatalistic. We don't want to know that we may have already destroyed our planet. We don't want to know that if we haven't it's going to take serious change to prevent its destruction. We don't want to accept that through no original fault of our own, we are potentially destroying our Mother Earth. Whether created by 3 billion years of planetary evolution or a single act of a divine being, we know this planet provides our sustenance and without her we would die. Those who believe that dinosaurs roamed the planet and died out suddenly during the last ice age know that amazing creatures the enveloped the planet can become, quite suddenly, extinct. A species that's so in love with life, does not often choose to contemplate the end. Therefore, it is far easier to ignore the facts, our intuition, and the signs, marching onward in denial.

While no one knows what impact the release of all this carbon dioxide hundreds of millions of tons per day from all over the planet will have, in their bones, I believe everyone knows by now that something will happen. We will have to pay the piper for burning up all the earth's resources. I think most just hope it's later rather than sooner. Leave the problems of mass animal extinction on earth to future generations. Right now it's more important to ensure the solvency of our oil, coal, and gas industries.

As some of the information in these articles suggests, we may not be responsible for the huge changes ahead, the sun itself may have other plans in store for this planet. Surely, though, that information should not be met with glee that we aren't to blame, rather it should be met with the same solutions as we must implement if we are responsible for any degree of this problem.

Moreover, and equally ironic, for the USA, Europe, and Japan – all of which live in a death grip by nations that provide so much of the energy people consume – transitioning away from a petro-chemical power source to a solar and wind power source could kill both problems with one stone. Therefore, one has to ask the salient question. Who would not want to see the USA free from the control of our debtor nations who sell us our fuel? If that doesn't cause one certain alarm, then let the simple concept that, at our present course, it is inevitable that we will force the climate of our planet into a stress from which it may only recover by eliminating the problem – us.

EMAIL|FLAG THIS POST
COMMENTS
36 months ago: Thanks Ranter. I'm glad you looked into it.

Did you really look at the graphic on the epa site page?

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html

It dates back 600 thousand years and shows a warming/co2 cycle? The EPA also has stated that they are not sure if the current warming trend is caused by humans or just a cycle. However to help your point I'll say that we need to adjust and control whatever we can to help. Even if this trend is just a phase/cycle. Look at the graphic on the EPA page. We might have peeked on temps even though the co2 is still high. The temperature trend in going down (EPA last date 2000). I wonder why the official EPA site stopped posting co2 data in 2006 and temperature last dated 2000. That is how current the information is on our official government EPA site? Are they afraid to post the last 2 years co2 and the last 9 years temperature statistics? Ask that question.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: CG, yep I looked at all the graphics and read in detail the descriptions and the evaluations. Ironically, there is no easy way to interpret the data of such immensely complicated systems. It's next to impossible to know exactly what will happen. Which is why I propose my construct. While we don't know what or when or if anything will happen, we can logically presume that something will happen. It could be that the extreme release of carbon dioxide will cause a period of Utopian Nirvana or it could cause rising temperatures, rising sea levels, and global climate change on a magnitude that will end all animal life on this planet as we know it. We just don't know. Scientific evidence and thousands of the greatest minds, however predicts something more like the latter rather than the former. And, my feeling is that even if they are only 10% right, it's 10% that could mean the end of our great farming industry in the Midwest and most of NYC and Florida under water.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: It still makes no sense to me to gamble with the possibility for global catastrophe when we have the opportunity to do something about it that will not only be positive for the earth by decreasing our impact no matter how small nay-sayers may perceive that to be while simultaneously restoring our national sovereignty? It is mysterious to me why conservatives would be against this in any way. I also wonder if conservatives come to their opinion based on the idea that this is coming from liberals, which is certainly not the case just because Al Gore became a champion for the cause, and their once great visionary leader, George W. Bush didn't believe in it, or if they are in bed with the oil, coal, and gas industry, or what is it? If Ronald Reagan returned as a ghostly vision on nightly news with a message straight from God saying, "Yes, my fellow Americans, Al Gore is right, global warming is inevitable at the current rate of fossil fuel consumption, and if you don't change, it will be the end of humanity," would conservatives believe it or would they just put Ronald Reagan in the same category as George W. Bush, "traitors to conservatism"?
AntonioSosa
AntonioSosa
Miami, FL
36 months ago: It's not global warming but the global warming hoax that threatens our future and the future of our children.

More and more scientists and thinking people all over the world are realizing that man-made global warming is a hoax that threatens our future and the future of our children. More than 700 international scientists dissent over man-made global warming claims. They are now more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers. http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/3562/218/

Additionally, more than 30,000 American scientists have signed onto a petition that states, "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." http://www.petitionproject.org

Obama and his fraudulent friends seem determined to force us to swallow the man-made global warming scam. We need to defend ourselves from the scammers, who threaten our future and the future of our children. Based on a lie, they have already wasted billions and plan to increase taxes and increase the cost of energy, which will limit development, destroy our economy and enslave us.

If not stopped, the global warming/cap and trade scam will empower and enrich the scammers (Obama, Gore, Soros, Goldman Sachs, Obama’s Chicago Climate Exchange friends, GE, etc.), while multiplying unemployment, poverty and servitude for the rest of us.
AntonioSosa
AntonioSosa
Miami, FL
36 months ago: We pray that honest Democrats and Republicans are able to save us from Obama's criminal cap and trade scam.

Cap and Trade “would be the equivalent of an atomic bomb directed at the U.S. economy—all without any scientific justification,” says famed climatologist Dr. S. Fred Singer. It would significantly increase taxes and the cost of energy, forcing many companies to close, thus increasing unemployment, poverty and dependence.

Cap and trade is a huge tax that will hurt mainly the poor and the middle class while further increasing Obama’s power and enriching Obama’s billionaire global warming promoting friends (Gore, Soros, Goldman Sachs, Obama’s Chicago Climate Exchange friends, GE, etc.).

GE, for example, has bombarded us with daily propaganda -- through its NBC networks, that includes MSNBC and CNBC -- to make us swallow the scam. Why? Because they stand to make BILLIONS from the scam. Not only GE is the largest wind turbine generator maker, but it may benefit as the sole “secondary market” trader of the cap and trade credits.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: Welcome Antonio, I'm glad to see you were inspired to join RantRave just to comment on this rant, and I hope you will participate further by writing your own rants and raves!

I've got to tell you though, that your information is sour – meaning been debunked time and time again. While you are certainly correct that there are going to be many new companies that rise to the top of the food chain as we move to reduce our reliance on FOREIGN oil which has been robbing the USA of its sovereignty for decades, taking us to wars where we don't belong, and contributing to global climate change.

Ironically, I equate "cap and trade" legislation to Kennedy's "to the moon" speech. It will force our nation to victory in the alternative energy arena. It's sad it couldn't be done with just an inspirational speech. Unfortunately, the powers that be are too strong against this monumental step in a new direction.

I'm sure you feel a bit frightened by all this because, after all, it is new territory and you are in the distinct minority. But remember that a new energy economy has always been a part of the Obama strategy to rebuild our national economy. He campaigned on this, and he won the hearts and minds of the majority of the electorate. It's always unnerving when the rug gets pulled out from under you; but, in this case, the rug need to be pulled long ago. For less than the cost of the GWB–Iraq war, the USA could have constructed the solar and wind farms to provide low cost if not free power to every single user in the nation. You think that wouldn't have been good for our economy? It's definitely bad for the oil, coal, and gas industries, but use of their product, unfortunately, has a deleterious effect on the longevity of animal life on the planet. No, Antonio, the steps being taken are the only hope we have for survival both economically and biologically.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
36 months ago: Again, great analysis Raver!

You had me convinced with your old rants.

As for you, Cypress, i think it's a combination, there is most certainly fluctuations in co2, temp, etc. But pumping out all this crud, while chopping down all the trees cannot be good.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
36 months ago: Guy's I will keep this simple, government agencies are out for one thing, that is keeping, and or increasing their funding. The reason for this is so that they can keep their job and also increase their pay. Any info placed on a government website is going to be biased in this manor. You cannot only site government websites. This is the same government that has plundered our Social Security fund, waged a War that I am now becoming convinced was unnecessary, and has spent our tax dollars in the name of inefficiency over the past century.
The government is to be trusted for one thing, that is to steal our liberty in the name of the good of the whole.
36 months ago: Billy, the government sites I referred to Ranter do not conclude that global warming is 'caused by human' events. They actually state that they don't know and only document the relationship to warming and effects that might or might not be a factor by humans. They also state that the effects might not be caused by human effects. It's really unknown. There is not a single line on or in any of those sites that state categorically with proof that increased emissions are the cause of global warming. Beleive me if there was a statement like that Ranter would have found it. He didn't. I'm sure he tried. Just as you would have.

My point to everyone is and always has been...

Pollution is bad. Let's call it what it is.
Let's fix the pollution problem.

Don't masquerade pollution as something else.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
36 months ago: Agreed, my apologies, I rushed to judgment without reading, and assuming. I assure all it won't happen again.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: Cypress: I disagree with your assessment of the very same sites you provided.

"Scientists are certain that human activities are changing the composition of the atmosphere, and that increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases will change the planet's climate. But they are not sure by how much it will change, at what rate it will change, or what the exact effects will be."

That seems pretty clear, so to say the sites don't agree, and don't suggest, etc., belies the careful analysis I performed, which took quite a great deal of time, by the way.

I don't buy the semantic argument, Cypress, one bit, but maybe you can convince me that's all it is for you.

Fine, I'm happy to call it carbon dioxide pollution if that makes you happy and finally able to jump on board with those who are working very hard to decrease our dependency on foreign oil, increase our usage of renewable energy from wind and solar, and decrease the carbon footprint of the human race on our beloved planet.
36 months ago: OK. If I didn't state a truth then I'll retract my statements. Did you find one single hard statement that does not have a caveat somewhere that they are in any way unsure. I didn't see anything posted that when reading the entire script does not have a caveat. You forgot to add those in the post. It is real simple to take a paragraph or two that suit the pourpose and post them without the full context. Do we really need to start this?
36 months ago: Coloranter Raver:
I'm not there.
Human made global warming is a hoax.
(Through my red colored glasses.)
Now, I suggest everyone shut up about global warming, and let's all work on reducing pollution.
Okay??????
(Compromise??????????)
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: RSG: I have never not been fighting pollution. My entire life I've been a champion of recycling and reducing waste and pollution. This is nothing new. By all means, let's all work on this. If everyone did the world would be a cleaner, healthier place.

However, I am not prepared, in the least to shut up on Global Warming or to agree that it is a hoax. Calling it a hoax, is rather like stating that the earth isn't a sphere. Sorry, but we don't get to vote whether global warming is or isn't real. It is either happening or it isn't.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: Cypress, I don't appreciate your assertions. I never said there isn't doubt, however the doubt in the sources you supplied isn't whether there is or isn't global warming, the doubt is to when, how, and in what way the impact of global warming will effect human and other life on the planet. There is some doubt that the current cause is more due to activity from the sun or human beings as raised by the Polish Science Academy: but there again, I explained that if the PSA is right, all the more reason we need to cap our contribution because if the sun is sending out more solar radiation, even if our contribution tot he blanket is small, the two together could spell disaster for life on earth.
36 months ago: Good for you Ranter! I won't either! Maybe we can eventually meet in the middle.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: organic fuel + oxygen ------> carbon dioxide + water


• We are burning organic fuel: coal, wood, natural gas, oil, gasoline, propane, and butane all over the world all the time.
• Every molecule of organic fuel pumped into the left side of this chemical reaction equation produces carbon dioxide.

Therefore, the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would have to be rising. There is no other alternative.

• The only things that can take carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere are plants, algae, and cyanobacteria carrying out photosynthesis on land and the ocean.

• Every molecule of carbon dioxide the ocean absorbs makes it one molecule of carbonic acid more acidic to the point where eventually no more carbon dioxide can dissolve, and the pH of the water can become inhospitable to the very cells that were carrying out the oceans vast photosynthetic life chain.
• Moreover, as the earth warms, the solubility of gases decreases driving more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

The levels of carbon dioxide by simple logic have to be going up. The carbon dioxide produced cannot simply disappear in to nothingness. It's building up in our atmosphere. Everyone who understands atmospheric chemistry will tell you that there is no way to know when or if this will cause us any problems in our lifetime. It might take 20 million years before it's an issue for us. But, it could be 10 or 20 or 50 just as easily. The fact that we don't know exactly when or what will happen doesn't mean the process isn't happening or isn't real. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't start trying to do something about it now rather than when it might be too late (which we don't know that it isn't) or when there might be too little time to correct things.
36 months ago: Ranter. If my assertions offended you I appoligize. That was not my intent. I know your a smart guy. Probably smarter than me. It isn't about who is smarter. It is all about calling it the way you see it. We all can't be right. That applies to both sides. I have stated many times that I am against pollution. I can get behind a program that is called what it's purpose is. I have a problem with misleading topics that are set forth to scare the public into a hidden agenda. Why hide it? Call it what it is.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
36 months ago: I do have an honest question for you RSG, since you said you're still not there and believe that global warming is a hoax.

(a) Why would scientists all over the planet agree, if it's a hoax? What is there to gain? Especially if they are in effect taking on Big Fossil Fuel Energy which is very rich and powerful?
(b) While I know that for most people the concept didn't come into their consciousness until (i) GWB failed to sign the Kyoto treaty – which he did not because he doesn't necessarily agree with the global warming problem but because he felt that it placed unfair demands on the USA while letting China and India slide which actually he did have a very valid point – and (ii) when Al Gore came out with An Inconvenient Truth; however, the concept of global warming has been around for more than 50 years. It was, according to Al Gore, one of his college professors that got him interested in the idea. Human scientists have long known about the greenhouse effect of the earth's atmosphere. So, do you choose not to believe in a scientific fact because you feel it was brought to your attention by a liberal democrat? In other words, if Rush Limbaugh went on air talking about a threat bigger than immigration to our nation, that of Global Warming, then would you believe it? I'm just trying to figure out why you think this is some vast left wing conspiracy when, in fact, there are people of every religion and political background working on this issue. So, it would be helpful to me to know what I need to do to convince you.

36 months ago: Coloranter Raver:
(I appreciate the back and forth very much.)
Scientists all over the world DO NOT AGREE man has a hand in global warming.
Their gain is to defeat capitalism. PERIOD. That is all they are after.
There was a whole lot I did not like about W, including not fighting the hoax.
It was global cooling before it was global warming. What's next, global flatulence?
God set up a wonderful world for us, including greenhouse gases.
Global warming is NOT a scientific fact.
Yes, idiot algur's protestations confirm my beliefs.
Every single conservative I know likewise believes man made global warming is a hoax. Every single one of them.
And, Rush Limbaugh happens to say (most) everything I am already thinking. (not the other way around.)
35 months ago: Two comments:
"If the sun is releasing even more energy due to sun spot activity.." A problem here. There is no sun spot activity.
Solar cycle 24 which NASA et al predicted to start in 08 has yet to begin. In fact, we may be at the start of an era with minimum sun spots. If we are, this will probably give us global cooling, not warming.
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Year-of-Sun-Made-Global-Cooling&id=1019128

Articles like yours always mention 'greenhouse gases' but fail to mention that water vapor comprise 95% of green house gas but these same articles always mention CO2 which is only .03%.

Post a Comment
Sign in or sign up to post a comment.