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Rant

"Gestures For Peace" In Israel Cost Lives

Posted 17 months ago|12 comments|760 views
Written by
Rudi Stettner
 Moderator
It has now come out that the four Jews killed near Hebron were killed because of "risks for peace" demanded by the Obama administration. WND reported as follows on the concessions that led up to the attacks.

"Today's deadly terror attack that killed four people took place on a road where the Israeli government removed staffed anti-terror checkpoints in line with requests from the Obama administration, WND has learned. As President Obama was preparing for a Washington summit with the Israeli and Palestinian leaders, Palestinian terrorists today carried out a shooting attack, killing two Jewish men and two women, one of whom was pregnant. "


The checkpoints never should have been dismantled. Additionally, it would be wise to build one more town for each person killed by the terrorists applauded by Hamas. That would be 4 new towns to commemorate the latest terror victims, plus one additional town in memory of the innocent unborn child.

There are conflicts where progress towards peace is glacially slow. For decades, China and Taiwan did not recognise each other's right to exist. The communists referred to Taiwan as "Taiwan Province" and the Taiwan government (dominated by mainlanders) referred to the "occupied mainland". Over the years, there were accommodations to practical necessity, even as the facade of non recognition was maintained by both sides. In the last decade, the 2 sides of the Taiwan Beijing have moved to open trading and agreements governing trade.

No one forced the Chinese and the Taiwanese to talk to each other. Mutual benefit and self interest pushed the 2 sides together.

Israel has taken the lion's share of the blame for the Palestinian refugees. About as many Jews fled Arab countries as Arabs who fled what is now Israel. Israel integrated the Arabs who remained behind in Israel, as well as the close to a million Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Israel's neighbours, however, kept the Arabs who fled what was once Palestine in refugee camps.

This stands in marked contrast to other nationalities that absorbed large numbers of refugees based on consanguinity. The following are some examples.

1. Greece and Turkey each had an exchange of populations which left Greece mostly Greek and Turkey with very few Greeks. It was brutal when it happened, but no one talks of returning Greeks or Turks to their old home towns. All those who fled their homes have been integrated into Greek or Turkish society.
2. Turkey absorbed thousands of ethnic Turks who were being persecuted in neighbouring Bulgaria by the communist government of Todor Zhivkov back in 1984.
3. Germany absorbed over 2 million ethnic Germans expelled by neighboring countries. All of these ethnic Germans, some of whom spoke little German, are now integrated into German life.

The principle under which each of these absorptions or exchanges were accomplished was "Jus Sanguinis, which is the idea that ancestral ties form a basis for citizenship of a nation. Indignation is reserved for Israel when it attempts to implement such citizenship laws that is never shown to other nations that invoke the same principles. In Egypt, Libya and other Arab countries, Jews were stripped of citizenship and property despite having ancestry in the countries from which they were expelled that went back centuries.

There are many claims and counterclaims that Jews and Muslims in the Middle East have against each other. A marathon talk in Washington will not even scratch the surface of such issues. There seems to be an almost insane egotism that seems to grip the world leaders as they try to sort out the problems of the Middle East. Far from pushing the warring parties to peace, this process pushes the Israelis and the Arabs to further bloodshed. What is worse, wars with far higher body counts, such as those in Sudan, The Congo and Sierra Leone are ignored as valuable time is wasted on the Middle East.

Most of the time, "peace" talks seem like a silly waste of time. "Gestures for peace" such as the removal of checkpoints that facilitated the murder of 4 Jews near Hebron, including a pregnant woman are not just foolhardy, but turn the "honest brokers" in Washington into accomplices to the murder of the 4 Jews killed in Hebron yesterday.

The "peace" talks in Washington are a sham. They are an egotistical exercise that is costing innocent lives. Arabs and Jews will make peace when they are left alone, as were the Chinese in Taiwan and on the mainland. Glacially slow progress can save and enhance lives. The deadly brew of egotism and impatience that has broken out in Washington will only cost more lives.

Reprinted with permission from Rudistettner.com


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguin...
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COMMENTS
17 months ago: "Additionally, it would be wise to build one more town for each person killed by the terrorists applauded by Hamas. That would be 4 new towns to commemorate the latest terror victims, plus one additional town in memory of the innocent unborn child."

If these new Israeli towns you propose to be built on the Palestian Territories are supposed to be a suitable collective reprisal against the Palestinians, generally, are the existing towns a standing punishment as well?
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: Rudi Stettner said:
"Arabs and Jews will make peace when they are left alone"

I totally agree.

But they where not left alone by the US and Europe in the beginning.

They were pushed to confront each other. The White alien Jews were pushed to take over the land of Arabs.

Now there will be no peace.

I agree that now if the two different races need to war upon each other, we should let them.

We should not let the Jews bring us into world war three.

Let us stay far back and survive, or else our children will pay the price.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
17 months ago: Yes the deaths were tragic, and Abbas has condemned them as he should. But this immediate condemnation was unprecedented. But doing as you suggest would be as stupid as blaming all Muslims for 9/11. It was a few radicals!

When the existing moratorium on building ends at the end of this month it should be extended. More building will kill any chance for peace.

Your suggestion that the Israelis compound the atrocities is straight from the Untouchables: "You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way!"

Yes the Israelis could do that. They have the power, but they would never achieve peace. The Israelis need to be generous and do what Christ counseled and turn the other cheek.

Yes Obama's Peace Talks are the best opportunity in generations to stop the killing and the hatred. It has gone on too long.
Rudi Stettner
Rudi Stettner
 Moderator
17 months ago: There is mass support in the Arab street for murdering Jews one by one. Those who are willing to talk peace in the Arab world work with those who overtly seek to drive Jews out. Why is every bit of territory given over to Arabs in a peace agreement rendered "Judenrein?" I fail to see building Jewish towns on land from which Jews were driven earlier is some kind of atrocity. Jews have far too much experience in "turning the other cheek" The time for that is over
machka
machka
Australia
17 months ago: Rudi, you are blatantly one sided which doesn't surprise me, that is how the vast majority of people are about their nation and race. But you can't convince non-Israelis to feel like you feel. I agree that the loss of life of those 4 Israelis is tragic, but your strategy would only inflame the situation even more and more Jews and Palestinians will die. I have heard of similar stories of Palestinians and Lebanese civilians killed by Israeli soldiers, many of whom are children. Did not Israelis kill the Chinese peace keepers in the watch tower deliberately so there would be no witnesses to their actions. This is why you want the US and the world to but out, so Israel can destroy Palestine and occupy more territory. Can you not see that Israeli expansion and continued building of Jewish settlements is the cause of escalation of conflict and terrorist activity. You can't oppress people as you do the Palestinians and expect them to take it lying down. You also know that this unites the whole of the Middle East which is predominantly Islamic and is now against Israel. I don't believe you can just bring the walls down without first making serious compromises and striking a deal with the Palestinians that would bring about peace. I know that majority of Palestinians also want peace and a safe place to live and prosper, but it can't just be on Israeli terms, it needs to be acceptable to both, with compromises made on both sides. When I watch interviews of Jews and Palestinians, I can see that there are those who seriously want peace on both sides and are willling to compromise, but there are also those like yourself who are totally one eyed and totally blame the other side for the existing conflict. I have seen Jewish activists interviewed who are fighting for the rights of Palestinians and highlighting the human rights abuses by Israelis. Author Antony Loewenstein who wrote "My Israel Question" is one such voice. He criticises Zionist wrongdoing in the past and Israeli policies in the present. Even though he is also unahamedly Jewish, he is a far sighted man who is willing to criticise the actions of his own people and government. As the occupier Israel and it's people has to take a fair share of responsibility for the conflict. If my rights were eroded and I was dehumanised and treated worse than a second rate citizen, waiting at checkpoints for hours and at times days. Seeing my people die in ambulances and women giving birth waiting at checkpints, perhaps I could be pushed over the edge to become a terrorist. I saw a documentary where an educated Palestinian girl from a good family who was an ambulance officer became a terrorist and martered herself after witnessing such inhumane treatment of her people at checkpoints. This is not the future her family envisaged for her. What was interesting is that the father of one of the Jewish children killed said in the interview that Israelis had to ask themselves what they were doing wrong to drive people to commit such drastic acts. He wasn't just blaming the Palestinians, he took a look at the root cause of the problem. It's not an easy decision to take ones life and to kill people, only very desperate people who have lost all hope for the future could be driven to do something so drastic and final. I'm amazed that any intelligent person cannot see that the future for that region is bleak and people on both sides will continue to die if Israel does not start being kinder to Palestinians. I believe that Hamas has support only because people are desperate. Improve their life and build good relations and support for Hamas will decline. I just hope it's not too late, the longer the conflict lasts, the greater the hatered and mistrust. You have taken an interest in the former Yugoslavia conflict and commented extensively on it. Well I'm from Croatia and I can tell you that it's possible for former enemies to live in peace and build relations again. Some ethnic Ser
17 months ago: Were you interested in my question about the wisdom of the collective punishment by establishing more retaliation occupation towns, Rudi?

I think that it is unwise, and for that reason, Israel will not do it.

Israel is the occupying power in this conflict. The settlements you call "Jewish towns" are, in fact, Israeli settlements established by force and adminstered under Israeli civil law, on territory that is not the state of Israel. If you think the Palestinian Territories should be Israel's, that's your view and you are entitled to it, but you should tell the Palestinians.

You have stated that the "Arabs" and "Jews", after taking your advice, should be left alone to work things out. I gather that you are more specifically talking about "Palestians" and "Israelis", not the Arab and the Jewish diasporas.

But, are you telling the US to butt out? If the US had butted out and not bankrolled the Israeli military, Israel would not have been able to exert the force that it has.

You "fail to see" building what you describe as "Jewish towns" on land from which "Jews were driven earlier" is some kind of atrocity. That's a weak, straw man, piece of rhetoric. I don't think you'll be suprised if that argument won't convince a non-partisan. What you "fail to see" might be helpful in stating a convincing case to non-partisans.

Other, non-Jewish, people also "fail to see" that annexing some country they would like, like the Sudetenland is an atrocity, too. Especially if some co-religionists or co-ethnics live there or once lived there. Where's the border of this non-atrocity style forceful occupation of territory that Israel should carry out to punish the Palestinians for hating the Israelis for their forceful occupation? Vicious circle?

scotmanster
scotmanster
17 months ago: "Israel is the occupying power in this conflict. The settlements you call "Jewish towns" are, in fact, Israeli settlements established by force and adminstered under Israeli civil law, on territory that is not the state of Israel."

Yes I agree but then I agree that California was rightfully owned by Mexico at some point in time. Do you see Israel crying bloody murder because we are not the rightful owners of California due to your ideologies and the repercussions of them?

No you don't because we fought a war to win that land. Israel can do what it pleases I think we have enough problems of our own as a nation before we start meddling in other problems that do not concern us.
17 months ago: Surely this occupation must legitimately extend to Moscow and Berlin, where we'll be bulldozing places for our peace enclaves? Then they'd hate Israel more vigorously, too.

Then, after Israel has fully settled Palestine, the Palestinians can legitimately come back and reoccupy the land with their settlements, because they used to live there.

The Native Americans and the colonist occupiers were mostly left to work things out for equitably for themselves. Germany could have worked things out with Poland in World War II if other people didn't butt in.

But, people hate occupying powers, the world over. If the occupying power conflates the occupation with some sort of religious or ethnic manifest destiny argument, it encourages the unthinking to rope in all those of the same religion or ethnicity as the bad guys. That's unfair to Jews.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: A occupying force or in this case an alien race occupying force, is always the bad guy in history.

People have attacked other lands since time began. All claimed to have good justifications for their invasions.

The mental force for this is a communistic desire, to rule by ONE ruler (or a few selected International Bankers as in reality, what we have now), making all subjects property of the state.

Communism is the rule of a few over the many.

The commies/liberals/Progressives call this their NEW WORLD ORDER.

Ownership of a few, over the lives and property of the many, is against the American way of life.

Here right now we have a Corporate Communistic democracy, bought and paid for in 1933. It is imploding and dying out because, we refused their Corporate constitution, which is in treason to the American people.

Our problems are here now, because the Jews are protected by the 12 MAIN families that run the NEW WORLD ORDER.

The Rothschilds Exposed 1/3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F4IGwuKd...

The Cashless Society http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVUV_ohng...

The Rothschild Octopus http://www.dejanlucic.net/THE%20ROTHSCHI...

The secret to safety is tho know the true source of your problems.

Who is behind all wars pulling all the strings???

The mental and social behavior of: A communist, socialist, liberal, progressive, marxist, Leninist, etc., or any combination of the these, is only understood, by knowing what they have in common mentally and emotionally and in what they want and believe in:

They are a danger to us by their most common beliefs:

Anti-Self Defense, Anti-Second Amendment, Anti-Constitution, Anti-Real Constitutional History, Anti-Family Values, Anti-Business, Pro-Big Government, Pro-New World Order, Pro-Criminals, Anti-Natural Nutrients, Pro-Excessive Taxation, Pro-Excessive Federal Regulations, Pro-Abortion Or Anti-Life, Anti-Real Causes Of Illnesses And Pro-Symptom Cures, Anti-Natural Doctors And Pro-Symptom Doctors, Anti-God, Anti-Religion, Pro-Godless Cults, Anti-Patriotism, Pro-Corruption, and Pro-Immorality, Pro-Perversion, Pro-Bestiality, Etc., And Etc..

When We Have Commie Liberals In Control, We Don't Need Plagues, We Have The 666 To Rule Us.

By knowing how their sick minds work. Can you trust them? Do they ever tell the truth?

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

We are dynamic individuals, we are not mentally accustomed to identifying ourselves a one unit in the commie collective.

The Jews are people that were unwanted in Europe and were given a chance to have a place of their own, for once in history.


17 months ago: Doesn't it all boil down into the question of "you will be absorbed or you will be annihilated"?

The Arabs and the Jews are really just tribes of the same basic people; the major difference is that the Arabs predominately practice Islam and Jews, Judaism, two incompatible religions. There are groups within both tribes that practice other or no religion and these are the only ones who seem to be able to get along with each other.

The Islamic believers pretty much believe in the first sentence and relish the "annihilating" part when it comes to Jews, or anyone not of their religion. Judaism is a religion more into shunning those not of their faith and this is worse than absorbing them into the tribe because it effects all aspects of a persons life.

As for the land issue, if you can take it and hold it, it should be yours, that's the way it has been for eons, many countries have grown and shrunk under that natural flow of blood.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
17 months ago: There are only two possibilities in this area. A single state solution in which the Palestinians and Israelis share the land in peace ( 20% of Israelis are Palestinians now in Israel), or a two state solution.

If the countries are merged the Israelis would be a minority so I doubt they will go for that. If a two state solution is agreed on, the Israelis have to give the Palestinians autonomy.

The current state of apartheid is unstable, so why prolong the suffering?

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: I say let them handle their own affairs.

Don't volunteer our boys to die for them.

Let them die for their own mistakes.

Don't give any more money and stop with the lies.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

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