Economy

Rant

GOP & Democrats- Time to put something real on the table!!

Posted 10 months ago|5 comments|326 views
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Well, for weeks now, we've been hearing how the Democrats and Republicans can't come to some sort of agreement on raising the debt ceiling. The vice-president had a bipartisan group at the table and that fell apart. Now the president has a group at the table and that too seems to be going nowhere.

The first issue is the fact that the deficit has been attached to the debt ceiling. Although related, they are more like second cousins than husband and wife. Because of how governments can account for things and how things are added up, also due to the fact that income and cash flow are not always linked, having a balanced or even surplus budget does not mean you don't need to borrow money to pay bills. So even though there are legitimate, reasonable and responsible reasons for attacking the chronic budget shortfall, the 'do it or else' approach is somewhat fabricated.

What I want to see is this: a concrete, budgeted proposal from each side on how they plan to deal with the problem. Both the democrats and republicans have talked about the high level philosophies of their approaches but neither have put a detailed plan on the table.

I want both the parties to put their plans on the table. For the republicans, let's see the specific budget plan of how they will balance the budget with no tax increases. What are the economic assumptions? What spending gets cut and by how much?

For the democrats, how and what tax increases will be implemented. What are the economic assumptions? What spending gets cut and by how much?

It is time for both sides to clearly and specifically tell the world what they are planning. I say the world because their failure will have worldwide implications.

I suspect that if the republicans were to do this, they would find that a very narrow group of Americans would favor the outcome. The democrats would have broader support. At the end of the day, I think the pledge that the politicians should be considering is one that is more specific than 'No tax increases' or 'Don't touch medicare and social security'. Put a specific plan on the table and then pledge to pursue that. That would be much more honest with the electorate and instantly make the politicians more believable and accountable.
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Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
10 months ago: Good Rant Edward!

I think the details of each side is becoming pretty clear. The Republicans put forth their budget plan by adopting the Ryan plan. This would replace Medicare with a voucher plan that would shift the cost to the elderly and ailing. They would severely cut all social and environmental programs, and their austerity would cost 700,000 jobs. They would reduce the top tax rates of the super rich from the current 35% to 28% which would give the already obscenely rich another trillion dollars we can't afford.

Obama has been willing to cave in to the Republican holding America hostage by giving them 95% of what they want including $4 trillion in draconian budget cuts and including cuts in Social Security (although SS has nothing to do with the debt) and is also willing to cut Medicare. Obama isn't even asking for more taxes. All he asks in return is that a few of the subsidies to the oil companies and tax loopholes to the rich who are sitting on record profits, be taken away

Obama has infuriated the liberal wing of the Democrats who hold SS and Medicare sacrosanct because 77% of the public thinks they should be left alone while only 20% think they should be changed. http://www.care2.com/causes/polling-says...

The main sticking point for negotiations is taxes. The Republicans refuse to budge an inch because all but 13 Republicans signed a pledge never to raise taxes for any reason. This pledge is the cause of most of the National Debt because the Republicans doubled the Military spending and gave huge tax cuts to the rich while refusing to pay for them. They just put everything on the credit card.

To eliminate the problem we need to undo what caused the problem. Cut military spending, the corporate welfare, and take away the tax cuts to the rich so the rich and corporations pay their fair share.

The Republicans refuse to give at all on either point. But 80% of the public thinks that taxes should be increased on the rich.
http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2011/03/09/...

Taxes are lower than they have been in 60 years, and 2/3rds of corporations pay no taxes at all. In 2001 when we had $250 billion surpluses projected indefinitely into the future, revenue provided 20.6% of GDP now it is only 14.4%. It is obvious We have a revenue problem not a spending problem. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07...

The only budget plan that makes any sense and does what the majority of people want is the Peoples Budget. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sa...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
10 months ago: Do either one of you honestly think that the movers and shakers in Congress want what is best for you? Do you really believe Obama was swept into office to make the world a better place?

And in the midst of this brouhaha, where is Obama's budget?

Altruist says "taxes are lower than they have been in sixty years"... like that's a bad thing.

Altruist also said "we have a revenue (code for taxes) problem, not a spending problem".

Why would you use GDP as a marker for tax surpluses or budget deficits? That's very deceitful. In 2001, the GDP was around $11 trillion, and now the GDP is around $15 trillion. In the liberal mindset, every time you make more money, you should spend more money. And every time the country does better, the government should make more money from the labors of the people.

But in my opinion, we should have unilateral spending cuts. Everyone, and I mean everyone, should feel the pinch. This includes Congressmen, Presidents, CEO's, teachers, government employees, all the way down to the panhandlers on the street.

Do you realize that if we cut out military spending entirely, we would still be in a deficit spending situation?

2010 budget wound up costing taxpayers $4.5 trillion
2010 taxes collected was $2.2 trillion
2010 DEFICIT WAS $2.3 TRILLION

2010 military spending was $685 billion

You do the math.
10 months ago: Let's start by cutting aid to the U.N. and start charging them for office space. You think they will move to Uganda?
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
10 months ago: The US agreed to spend .7% of GDP to help the UN in their efforts to eradicate poverty, disease, pestilence and war. I think that would be a worthwhile investment which would mean that we would need much less military spending of our own. We can no longer afford to be the cops of the world. Let the other nations acting together protect themselves and each other.

In fact we are only giving .2% which is at or near the bottom of all developed nations (although the dollar amounts are still higher).

At least you are willing to talk about reducing the Defense budget. This is where most of the waste and unnecessary spending in the budget is. The Republicans took defense spending off the table and indeed increased defense spending 17%

You said that EVERYONE should feel the pinch, but the gap between the austerity of 95% of the country and the obscene opulence of the rich has never been greater. Where in the Republican budget are they asking the rich to share the pain. They voted to lower their tax rates from 35% to 28% giving them another trillion dollars! Ouch That Hurts!

Republicans want to take a wrecking ball to the economy slashing good and bad programs equally. That is just plain stupid.

We should retain all programs that provide jobs and which are investments in the future saving us much more money in the future for a modest investment now.

We should eliminate all programs that do harm and are not cost effective. Democrats are willing to make painful cuts, but they want the rich and the corporations to pay their fair share and they want Smart Cuts not Stupid cuts.

Your suggestion of eliminating UN funding is a stupid cut because it would result in widespread unrest that would force us to get into costly wars in the future.

The Republicans are always harping about Obama and the Democrats not having a budget , Here is Obama's budget: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget

But Obama can only give guidelines, Congress has to make the budgets, but the Republicans filibuster every attempt by the Dems. which makes it impossible.

Obama's plan and the Republican plans would take about 40 years before the budget is even balanced, let alone in any condition to pay off the debt.

The only budget plan which is fiscally responsible is the peoples budget which balances the budget in 10 years. It is the only plan that does what the majority of people want not the special interests.

The People's Budget ends the wars and creates jobs, and grows the economy which would reduce the deficit much quicker than anything the Republicans have proposed. http://www.npr.org/2011/04/15/135435883/...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
10 months ago: What I'm saying is that, for example during the 2010 fiscal year, even if we had COMPLETELY ELIMINATED the military and all associated spending, we would still have been 1.5 TRILLION DOLLARS short, just in one year.

So don't try to say that the military spending is the main cause of our money problems. The entire military budget amounts to only one third of the deficit portion of the budget, and only about one seventh of the total budget.

You are going to have to look a little deeper to find the true waste and mismanagement of our money.

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