News & Politics

Rant

Funny thing about America's view of Chinese superiority is:

Posted 20 months ago|20 comments|654 views
Is This Our Economy's Future or Present?
Written by
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
In my recent rant:
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Hey-Liberal...
Gregorie brought up a very valid fear and opinion that has been floating around ever since the decline of our economy in the G.W. Bush years. I would have responded there but it is way off topic and so I am posting it as it's own independent rant here. Feel free to join in as we discuss the role of China in the American economy. His quote goes as follows:
According to my friend Wan Hung Lo this is what the above says:
My dear American friends, you seem to think your future is to play a role in which you, please understand that it is not. We will not tolerate your laziness generally been among the contractors, guests indulge in some populations, but should not bear any guilt in the destruction. You know the members according to productivity, and implementation of our instructions. But know your stupid attitude, especially on gender equality than the mediocre, the intellectual among you will not be tolerated. We Arte, and has been a noble race, and you attempt to equality with our imagination, whether there will be a swift and certain correction to meet.
He tells me the OP probably meant that as Americans we vainly imagine we play a role in our own future.

He said that the speaker is saying the over indulged and indolent presently among us will be expunged without any guilt and that only productive members will be allowed to continue.
Also that silly notions of equality that have been promulgated will not be tolerated for they are the superior race, and as such, make no apologies and will give no reasons for the swift and certain judgment of those who vainly imagine equality to them.

Funny thing however about the American view of Chinese superiority is:

1) Their communist revolution "expunged" as you put it their nearly 12,000 year old culture.
Had it not been for stalwart, covert, rebels they would have exterminated their own identity, period.

2) Their Racial "purity" is the result of almost 12,000 years of inter continental mixing.
Their current shifting of native populations across the continent for economic improvement is resulting in the bastardization of native peoples and cultures as they shift and mingle.

3) Their Economic boon is not the result of modeling their old communist economic system but an adaptation of the American Capitalist one.

4) The speed of their economic growth is due in large part to the same favorable conditions that helped America become a super power.
They have access to a lot of inexpensive natural resources and access to a lot of inexpensive (slave like) labor.

So frankly I don't see where their superiority lies. Perhaps their prowess might lie in switching the course of their economic future full steam when they saw the defeat of communism and socialism in the eighties.
While not admitting defeat they sure adopted a, "if you can't beat them with your system, reverse engineer theirs and beat them with that.

I'll take a chance and play the role of the optimist here, perhaps they are not striving for world domination. Perhaps they are just playing catch up. Their purchase of American debt should not be viewed as a sign of a weakening American economy but of the faith the Chinese have in our economy. Sort of like when a little five year old longs to play football with the big boys but can't because he is to young but is still allowed to carry their equipment and bring the players refreshments.

I'm not suggesting the Chinese are that far behind, but I am suggesting that right now they are playing a supporting role in our economy, which they willingly partake in because of their faith and hope of our success. If it were the reverse than quite frankly I don't imagine the Chinese would have invested a penny in the US. They have investments in Africa and Brazil as well that seem promising. We are not the only game in town. They have confidence in the American Economic system.

That's my opinion. What do you think?
UPDATE - 20 months ago

This update addresses the issues brought up by Gregorie in his first comment to this post. It elaborates on the ideas I brought forth in the initial rant.

Prior to the acquisition of nuclear power the fight for cultural as well as industrial supremacy simply required a large enough supply of low or no cost labor and natural resources, the resolve was backed by big guns. Today the resources are scares and expensive and the weapons have the capability of annihilating all life as we know it. It is not that, "This country no longer has the belly for maintaining primacy" It is that diplomacy is the obvious and superior weapon for our generation. Only a fool runs screaming into enemy territory without first sending ambassadors to ascertain how complex is the situation. It is like comparing dodge ball to chess, the time for dodge ball is over. We've grown up and now we must play chess!

Furthermore, your description of a failed vision of the American dream due to whining, excess, immorality and conformity warrants more than a vague gloss over. What you describe are symptoms of unrestricted commercial trafficking. The success of capitalism is also its failure. Our economic system is not designed with ethical fail safes. The framers of the constitution put the economic power of success in the peoples hands because traditionally government has been the abuser of power and wealth instead of it's equitable administrator but this shift was not left without warnings to future generations. Ethics in commerce is the central component in Capitalism that cannot be bartered or sold for profit, which is why it is often discarded as trash.

You dismiss this key to a prosperous invigorated America, that is ethics in commerce, and insist that the moral and intellectual pursuit of diplomacy is effeminate and that what we need instead is brute force. The argument that you make favors arguments made by Sun Tzu that to succeed in battle justifies all the costs of the war. American leaders have also studied the 6th century text penned by this very Chinese Mr. Tzu. But I should need not remind you that our problem is not a military conflict but the failure to regulate industries and corporations that set the standards internationally for what is or isn't ethical business practice.

You also seem to forget or ignore that Every major International Corporation was born from Western Industry and Western style capitalism. It is our failure as a nation to insist from our US government that they hold these corporations accountable that has lead to the unfortunate rise of Communist, Muslim, Imperialistic and Tyrannical lead corporate ventures from nonwestern countries who unlike us have enforced their set of ethics to drive the competition under.

Ultimately the war you envision is not one of weapons, because that would spell certain disaster for humanity, it is one of ideals. Fairness and equity seems to have become taboo words in the Republican Lexicon, words that the Tea party associates with Marxism or Socialism. Should the right wing dig back into their Sunday school lesson books they would find that they were Christian principles before they were Socialist. A wise conservative would thus divert some of his energies to ensure equity in business and law instead of focusing all his attention to the bottom dollar, which he has watched plummet due to unethical corporate practices and dealings.
EMAIL|FLAG THIS POST
COMMENTS
20 months ago: First, I don't subscribe to the notion that the Chinese are "superior".
I am not surprised to hear from friends that have been there on several occasions that there is a distinct air of it being "their time" now and that there is a sense of having been treated with disdain by the western world for which they are, if not eager, very willing to exact some payback.

I just discovered this article and it nicely sums up the sentiments I have understood for quite some time:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/07/16/comin...

"In recent years, it has become accepted as a given that China's rapid economic growth will allow it to eventually eclipse the United States as the world's pre-eminent financial power. But Jacques says this shift in influence will certainly go far beyond commercial heft. It will bring profound and, in many respects, unwelcome changes to Western culture. The ruling classes in China are not interested in adopting foreign values like racial equality, human rights and political openness. Rather, they are dismissive—and in some cases outright hostile—to many of the political and cultural touchstones that we take for granted. They view the world as a hierarchy, with China at the top and the rest of the world representing various degrees of inferiority.

Admittedly their designs and political instincts are all circumscribed by a power out of their control.
But I have stated here on other occasions...as they wax in strength there will be a testing of both western power...but more importantly, western resolve to confront them. There will be (as presently obvious) proxy confrontations...as they are loathe to provoke the west in a head to head engagement...yet.
Look at the response to NK's sinking of a SK ship. Our response has been tepid at best.
This country no longer has the belly for maintaining primacy...but what is remarkably naive and foolish is to imagine in our own lethargy that the fire exists in no one elses.
We have been to the top...you just end up with a lot of stuff and a whining populace that is outraged for feeling "dissed". There's nothing worth preserving. Surely our moral decline and mediocrity also quenches any impetus for spreading the "american dream" of liberty.
What we blissfully remain blind to as we play like girls in the sandbox and promise to be nice to one another is that the bully coming through the gate is not going to acquiesce to our wisdom nor our flaccid biceps.
Don't be misled or foolish enough to think the whole of this world runs on anything other than school yard politics. When someone wants a turn on the merry go round and they have the strength to throw you off...and also beat up the teacher you call for help...either move aside...or get thrown off.
Bad behavior never justifies other bad behavior. But if anyone is intent on making the "genocidal americans" argument, this country is a mere piker.
And you do not have to go back decades and decades to see the ruthlessness of certain to their own people.
As this nation has devolved into a people content to scrutinize their own belly buttons, there's a hungry dragon without a care for the well being of it its body (politic) who has already made far greater sacrifices in their accelerated pace to reach the tape than even the most deprived among us can fathom.
Again though, intent and execution are often miles apart...but it will not be the moral nor diplomatic or military power of this fading republic that will stop them.
20 months ago: That remark is a beautiful piece of work Gregoire and as far as I can see sums the situation up. I just wish I had written it!! No really I am impressed.
It is not so long ago that the terrible atrocities of the Mao Tse Tung era took place. We may never know how many victims there were (or still are in a prison somewhere). This is the same government in place in China. Yes it is playing nice right now but should it take a notion it has the power to crush anyone or thing it deems not in line with the governments best interests. We must keep in mind that unlike American principles (which are slipping away fast) it is not the individual's liberty and rights which are important, in a socialist or communist regime it is the whole that is important. Thus Mao Tse Tung had no problem eliminating thousands of people who he considered to individualistic. It was not individual "people" he was eliminating, I think in his mind as well as Stalin etc. it is "problems". The individual man, woman or child loses all identity and can be killed or "eliminated" on a whim if they seem to be in conflict with the socialized fabric of the state.
The only advantage rather than "superiority" I see is as Gregorie very eloquently put it into perspective. The Chinese government is not bound by our "humane" ideals of individual rights. Therefore when push comes to shove they can and most likely will manipulate their population any way they see fit. If the western world actually understood what we had to lose I am sure we would make a stand for freedom and liberty. But it seems for the most part we have become complacent and will take the soft road into slavery when and if a time to stand ever comes.
20 months ago: What Greg said in his first sentence.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: I don't think anyone thinks the Chinese are superior, except the Chinese themselves. This is probably also a result of a deep seated inferiority complex, the fact that a country that has been in existence for thousands of years had to mimic the upstart U.S. to get out of dark ages.

What we do have in China is an intelligent people that have been quietly observing the going's on in the world, and just as communism was collapsed in the former USSR, so is capitalism being collapsed here and in the rest of the free world. The methods are simple: Promote paranoia, causing the target nation to spend more than they can afford on defense. Manipulate world markets, by flooding it with cheaper goods than target nations can produce. Foment unrest, by inserting operatives in positions of influence.

People's Republic of China (mainland) 877.5 23.4%
Japan 768.5 20.5%
United Kingdom 233.5 6.2%
Oil exporters 218.8 5.8%
Brazil 170.8 4.6%
Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China (Hong Kong) 152.4 4.1%
Republic of China (Taiwan) 121.4 3.2%
Russia 120.2 3.2%


Notice a trend here?
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
20 months ago: I seem to agree 100% with you OOTB. Quite interesting!
20 months ago: Hmmm, that is interesting OOTB.
20 months ago: It is far easier to conquer a foe if you have bled him for a while.
Content Removed by Gregoire
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
20 months ago: The Chinese are using their brains in international trade.

They are thinking about making a profit, but are using their resources intelligently.

We are letting them have the means to beat us in commercial trades, we are letting them own our debt.

That means that they are the secured party creditor and we are the debtors.

As a debtor, you are on the losing side, as the secured party creditor, they own us.

We are letting the politicians do what is right for their own profits, while we get the Popsicle stick up our butts.

When we let traitors rule us, smarter people will take advantage of the unethical behavior.

They are not superior, they just have less attorneys to screw things up.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://freedom-school.com/keating/how-a-...

http://freedom-school.com/law/prison_tre...

20 months ago:
Siempre I have to remark on your update to Gregoire. I'm not trying to speak for him but simply noticed some issues with your remarks which I would like to point out.
I don't see that Gregoire was advocating brute force with the remark "This country no longer has the belly for maintaining primacy". This could also be considered a statement in America's responsibility to stay at the forefront of human rights issues. It appears you are running to the liberal's tactics of insinuating and accusing conservatives of wanting to solve everything at the point of a gun. American does no longer seem to have the belly to stand up for human rights. As long as we have our Oreos and cable T.V we are happy to complain little about others being abused.
20 months ago: Continued:

I agree that capitalisms success is also part of its failure but just as you stated the forefathers made explicit warnings to us about this. One of the strongest warnings is that no matter how bad the private sector gets it is the government which is the most dangerous. When the government enforces laws made by the people then we are able to eliminate much though not all power abuses by corporations or whatever. However when the government "is" the law then abuses will be covered and only what the government says is what we are able to know. So the government "restriction" as opposed to unrestricted commercial trafficking could be the worse of the two.
You also suggest that large American corporations moved into other countries and corrupted the poor helpless people of those countries. Do you suggest that American corporations simply moved in surpassing all of these countries laws and regulations? American corporations are held by American laws to first and foremost abide by a country's rules and regulations when setting up business there. It is not all American corporations fault that a country's government is corrupt or not. In most cases these businesses brought much needed jobs and created a higher living standard for the people in those countries.
20 months ago: Thanks Jak...I had commented, then seen the futility of it.
I do not, as you say, advocate brute force...that is Siempre's straw man.
I'm an observer. In this world you eat what you kill, hold what you conquer...unless of course, you are Israel.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
20 months ago: Jakarta,

I am well in my right to believe that he is insinuating brute force. Read all of his remarks in context and you will, if you are impartial, get the same impression. Below ar but a few of his remarks from the same comment.
"...as they wax in strength there will be a testing of both western power"

"proxy confrontations...as they are loathe to provoke the west in a head to head engagement...yet. Look at the response to NK's sinking of a SK ship"

"we blissfully remain blind to as we play like girls in the sandbox and promise to be nice to one another is that the bully coming through the gate is not going to acquiesce to our wisdom nor our flaccid biceps."

"Don't be misled or foolish enough to think the whole of this world runs on anything other than school yard politics. When someone wants a turn on the merry go round and they have the strength to throw you off...and also beat up the teacher you call for help...either move aside...or get thrown off."

All of this was in response to my suggestion that the situation is best solved diplomatically since it is about economic empowerment and not military force.

About the only thing that he said that negates he is referring to schoolyard politics is:

" ...but it will not be the moral nor diplomatic or military power of this fading republic that will stop them"

But that just indicates that he feels our situation is hopeless. Jakarta, I am in no way a pessimist. And I do see hope where the far conservative right sees fear and foreboding. It is that type of fear that breeds aggression and hate, which is why I would rather focus on diplomacy. If the far right also thinks that diplomacy is the solution then both the left and the right are on the same page and we should work collaboratively to formulate a solution to a perceived growing problem.
20 months ago: I don't consider myself a pessimist either Siempre and I will always try to keep an optimistic outlook. My motto is to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
I agree diplomacy is and should be the first and foremost used method in these types of matters. I don't see in Gregoire's comments that he was suggesting not to use diplomacy. Even in diplomacy however one must often take a strong stance and utilize all our tools to affect an outcome. With China holding most of our debt we have already become the analogical "school girls" on the play ground. We seem to have little to bargain with in the game of diplomacy and also little in the form of self determination to not lose what we do have.
Proxy confrontations are what we have had and continue to have with China. Yes these are certainly the preferred confrontations over actual military confrontations but again we must have a strong will to not forsake our fundamental standards in the name of compromise. Lets not forget Chamberlain handing over an entire country to Hitler in the name of "peace", was this a fair compromise?
I think Siempre the difference with the far right and the far left is that the far left feels that evolution is in some way bringing mankind into a perfect state of being. They believe that all man must do is think love and we can become perfect creatures of love. On the other hand the far right believes mankind is not capable of becoming prefect in the sense that we will achieve a "utopia" on this earth by our own efforts. They believe that man can become better but power and money will always corrupt a percentage of those in government and we must take this into account.
Personally I feel that mankind is being perfected by God in a step by step manner. Christ brought us to the most recent step and we have made great progress through the gift of the Holy Spirit which connects us like a spiritual thread to God. Yet we are still all corruptible and to not be aware of this is dangerous.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: Like Siempre I am surprised to be agreeing with (at least some ofO OOTB's analysis. The figures for the ownership of our debt is interesting because we find ourselves at the mercy of some countries that have in the past been our enemies.

He is also partially right about the cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union being that they were over extended militarily. With our debt we can no longer afford to spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined and wars are always tremendously expensive in blood and treasure.

We need to cut military spending and start raising revenue from the billionaires to pay off our debt.

China seems to be beating us at our own capitalistic game because most Americans have become fat and lazy, no longer value education, and are not aggressively pursuing the next generation of green technologies like they are.

The Chinese are hard working and value education and because China used their surplus to generate jobs when the world's economies collapsed they are now plowing ahead at 7.5% growth. That is better than our 3% but they need 10% so they are trying harder.

China is determined to get all of those green jobs while the right resists any energy plan that doesn't push the same oil, coal and nuclear policies of the past. To retain our advantage in innovation we need to shift our priorities to renewables and stress education more.

China is following the same economic evolution that Japan did after WWII but faster. Now that they are becoming a developed nation and their people are moving into the middle class they will start demanding more freedom and more rights. The government will be forced to change also.

Already they have changed their justice system to be more humane. http://www.google.com/search?q=china+no+...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: China is beating us at our own capitalistic game because they are capitalist in name only. The only capitalists in China are the people running the corporations, which the government allowed to be set up strictly to get their economy off the ground. The rest of the population are considered merely cogs in the machine, working for slave wages, and subject to being executed for sub-par performance. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-... The indulgent excess stops at Beijing, which the Chinese use as their example of their newly bought morality. They have a distinct advantage: they don't have to ship their jobs overseas to get workers who will work for a few dollars a day. Average income for city dwellers in 2009 was 18,858 yuan ($2,700), while in the populous countryside it was just 5,153 yuan ($752). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/21...

When everyone is fat and lazy, they can afford to be magnanimous, but you can't compromise with a starving person.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: Everyone in China is a capitalist. If you go up any street you will see thousands of individuals selling stuff, food carts cooking food, barbers on the street corner, cobblers making shoes on a cart. Everyone in China was allocated land to farm but farmers sold their land and now have lovely western style houses only made from brick.

As in Japan once the middle class gets some power they start agitating for better wages, safer working conditions, less pollution. Wages have gone up considerably and working conditions have improved dramatically in the last 20 years.

They have seen more change in the last 20 years than most countries in 200. They come to expect constant improvement.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
20 months ago: Thanks Altruist, some interesting reading as a result of your post.

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/tibetanN...

After abandoning collective farming in the seventies, and shifting to household production farming, not only did wages increase, although still meager, but overall production rose for the first half of the reform cycle.
20 months ago: I see Chine in its starkest terms as the apotheosis of the corporate machine.
Its CEO's are totally uninterested in anything but the bottom line which, for them, is Chinese preeminence in the world.
I do not, nor do I imagine many others see them after this fashion:

Perhaps they are just playing catch up. Their purchase of American debt should not be viewed as a sign of a weakening American economy but of the faith the Chinese have in our economy. Sort of like when a little five year old longs to play football with the big boys but can't because he is to young but is still allowed to carry their equipment and bring the players refreshments.

It might be nice if they could wear a more Panda friendly description. Of which the above sentiments seem to fit.

They are ruthless in executing underlings who are either found diluting the baby formulae with melmac, exporting tainted dry wall, or shipping poisonous lead painted dainties as kids toys.
The bullet to the back of the head is not done out of some vaunted sense of business ethics...but because it could harm trade and the bottom line.
And they are sucking up those dollars not out of any sense of hope or faith in the american economy...but as I'd once mentioned, in the same manner in which a farmer hopes his draught horse stays healthy till a good harvest will allow him to buy a tractor. At which time he'll stew and eat the horse.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
20 months ago: In the past China was dependent on the US to purchase all of the stuff they made because their own citizens couldn't afford that stuff. Times have changed and now the domestic demand for TV's, Cars, and all of that stuff the middle class wants, will soon eclipse the foreign demand. We still consume 1/4th of all of the stuff in the world, but we may soon find that while we need China to purchase our debt, they no longer need us to buy their stuff.

I thought it was sad that the most beautiful and picturesque area of China in the South around the Li River is also the poorest. now that they are getting a middle class that can afford to travel they can develop a tourist industry for their own people.
20 months ago: buying debt is interesting to me. the one who owns your debt owns you! china has carefully planned out what they do and what they allow to happen. not on their own, your own governments and corporations sold you out. it was the corporations and governments that make the people spoiled and lazy,arrogant, the same ones will trod you down. this plan has been coming for a long time. do you think they,the government, could not see this coming and react if they had wanted to ? instead they have let it happen. do not be fooled, they are helping it to happen. and no one, will step in to stop it. you don't want to need china to buy your debt,or anyone else

Post a Comment
Sign in or sign up to post a comment.