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From Russia, with Love?

Posted 33 months ago|34 comments|649 views
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How do so many Americans refuse to believe we are headed down the
Marxist road when even the Russians see it clear as day? In fact it appears
the Russians are quite amused at the shear stupidity with which we are
running headlong into slavery and oppression. This is the same socialist oppression
which took them so long to break away from. Take for example the recent
article in the Russian news paper Pravda, "American Capitalism Gone with a
Whimper". There is a link on the side of this post to the English edition
and I would strongly suggest reading the article. I must warn all the Obama
supporters however that it is not the sticky sweet wonderland words which
they have come accustom to hearing. This, my friends, is the cold hard
reality we face coming from people who have lived it and should know.

To give you an idea of what we are jumping into the first paragraph reads "
It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent
into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop
of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people".
From the article it is easy to see the Russians are very familiar with what
is happening here in the U.S and are even somewhat amused that the great
U.S.A which has defended "freedoms" and "liberty" for so long is now
handing over our freedom as if it was the wooden stick from a Popsicle
which we have gotten all the sweet stuff from. The Russians seem to cringe
at our freedom and liberty being thrown to a power hungry government like a
chew toy to be mangled and consumed and we are watching with glee in an
expectation that the end result will be a fabulous new prize for us after
the government has sliced and diced it to an unidentifiable mass of mulch.

Upon reading the article I was amazed at the clarity with which the
Russians see our predicament. This is not spin on news to impress their
opinion on us. This is not propaganda to indoctrinate Russians. The
Russians could care less. This article is Russians speaking to Russians.
Actually if America self destructs as it is doing now and becomes a third
world socialist Somalia, Russia will be a pretty good place. The Russians
are just watching us run down a road of self destruction which they have
been down and don't want any part of. In fact they even warned us yet we
are so full of ourselves it means little. Consider this clip from the
article, “Prime Minister Putin, less then two months ago, warned Obama and
UK's Blair, not to follow the path to Marxism, it only leads to disaster.
Apparently, even though we suffered 70 years of this Western sponsored
horror show, we know nothing, as foolish, drunken Russians, so let our
"wise" Anglo-Saxon fools find out the folly of their own pride".

Please take a few minutes and follow the link to the article. To view a
situation from different angles gives a clear interpretation of its whole.
The view of where we are heading from the Russians perspective should be
important to us because they have nothing at stake on our health care plan
or another stimulus plan etc. The Russians are something of spectators
viewing on the sidelines and this is often the best angle to catch the real
action. There are two pages in this article. I almost missed the second one so be sure to catch both pages.
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COMMENTS
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: Jakarta,
I forwarded a copy of this very article to my very liberal siblings and a few others a few months ago. You want to know what they said?
They said that it was propaganda spread by the Republicans!!

When I said I didn't know Republicans were writing OpEd pieces for Pravda, and they said I would be surprised.

Luke 21 verse26 / Men's minds will fail them for fear...
33 months ago: How little you must think of the American people. To believe that we as a society would use the Soviet Union as our model for our health care and economy, you must hold very little regard for them. It smacks of McCarthy-like "red scare" paranoia, where everyone except for the paranoid turned out to be secretly communists.

It disregards several fully functional and prosperous societies that have achieved universal coverage and yet somehow haven't descended into a collectivist nightmare.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: Umm, Noni?
Did you even read the article? I know you get stuck on an idea sometimes, but the article had nothing to do with healthcare.

The article is about the Russians disdain for the almighty America falling into the same trap they did, while we preach democracy to the rest of the world. It's about how we are so consumed with "getting", that we can't see the shackles that are being placed on our freedom.

I AM part of the American people. I am not part of the only 53% that voted for Obama, or espouses everything he says as the gospel. Don't continue to think that you liberals are the overwhelming majority. The vote for Obama was 53 to 47. That is not an overwhelming majority.

You are the one who must have issues with America.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: You are the one always wanting to model our system after the other countries.
33 months ago: OOTB, it's hardly an "article." It starts off calling Americans 'sheeple,' and it goes on to decry our descent into Marxism, which I can only assume is a reference to health care, because that's the major target of communism accusations in this country right now. If he's not talking about health care, then he's just talking about a sort of generalized economic decay.

On modeling our system after other countries... I think this gets at a fundamental difference between us, actually. As far as I'm concerned, one of the things that makes America great is our status as a melting-pot. We can see what works and what doesn't in other countries and take the good parts for ourselves. I don't regard seeing a system that is superior to one of our own and saying "we could do that" as any kind of admission that another country is itself superior to ours. We live in the greatest country this world has ever seen. We didn't get here by deciding that we were perfect in 1822 and setting the way we do things in stone.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: The article was published in April, 2009, several months before the healthcare bill was introduced.

"The final collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama. His speed in the past three months has been truly impressive. His spending and money printing has been a record setting, not just in America's short history but in the world. If this keeps up for more then another year, and there is no sign that it will not, America at best will resemble the Wiemar Republic and at worst Zimbabwe.

These past two weeks have been the most breath taking of all. First came the announcement of a planned redesign of the American Byzantine tax system, by the very thieves who used it to bankroll their thefts, loses and swindles of hundreds of billions of dollars. These make our Russian oligarchs look little more then ordinary street thugs, in comparison. Yes, the Americans have beat our own thieves in the shear volumes. Should we congratulate them?"
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: Slow down a second, quit racing to defend your party, and really read the article. Then read it again, to get the parts your mind would not accept the first time through.
My online friends in Russia, although a bit more polite, can only think of one nice thing to say of Barack. "He seems quite aggressive."
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: OJ Simpson trials
John and Kate + Eight
Survivor
American Idol
Life of Michael Jackson
Death of Michael Jackson
Brittney Spears, Paris Hilton and that other one, (Can't ever remember her name.)
Jon Benet Ramsey
Stacey Peterson
Celebrity
Youth
Beauty

Yes, a great many Americans are sheeple.
33 months ago: Sorry, I don't take kindly to having my entire country derided as "sheeple" at the start of a piece of commentary. I didn't get far into it because of that. You're right, he's attacking Obama's economic policies, not health care. I'm afraid that with health care being the topic on everyone's lips right now, I just assumed.

So let's take a serious look at the article, shall we?

1st paragraph: Hyperbole and insults against my countrymen. Nice start.

2nd: "...no matter how much money Wall Street poured into the fists of the Marxists." Gosh, I had no idea the movers and shakers of capitalism in this country hated capitalism and profits so much.

3rd & 4th: More generalized insults against the entire American populace! Not a good way to change anyone's mind.

5th: Oh, so that's it! Things have gone bad because we've lost our faith in God!

6th: More absurd hyperbole. The Wiemar Republic? In less than a year? I guess we'd better hurry up with the destruction of the country, then, because Obama's more than six months into his first term, and we're not Wiemar yet.

7th: Apparently, these Marxists in charge of capitalism are feeding off of... I dunno. I'm starting to lose track of who is who in this.

8th (oh God, there are two pages of this!): The Marxists in charge of Wall Street have been appointed to take over writing legislation for Congress or some such. I know Pravda is a Russian "news" paper, but that doesn't excuse the horrendous misuse of "then" in place of "than" throughout. Of course, asking for anything even resembling professionalism from Pravda is an exercise in futility.

(To be continued)
33 months ago: 9th: The writer demonstrates his failure to grasp what a majority shareholder in an enterprise can *always* do: Fire the CEO.

10th: I wonder if the writer is even aware of the global economic downturn?

11th: More insults! No wonder you guys like this guy... So respectful of America and her citizens.

12th: Some good old fashioned homophobia! I love this from a rag that regularly features lesbian celebrity rumors.

13th: America is worthless. Pull out, pull out!

14th: In conclusion, more insults.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
33 months ago: The Pravda piece was a classic piece of propaganda. Apparently the Republican propaganda machine has been taking from these guys. Unfortunately the Russian lesson we should have learned we have not. One of the main reasons the Soviet Union collapsed is because they spent too much on their military and got bogged down in Afghanistan. Now we spend more than the rest of the world combined on the military and are bogged down in Afghanistan. How long do we think we can sustain this with our national debt?
As to the original concept It was Bush and the Republicans that did the TARP program that gave $700 billion to bail out the banks. This was a tacit admission that the free market system had failed. If the free market was truly free those banks should have just folded and the bankers shouldn't have gotten a dime.
Of course now we are seeing that China is recovering from the recession much quicker than the rest of the world (8% growth)followed by Europe. The US is lagging in the recovery because we didn't invest enough in government controlled stimulus money. The main difference there between Bush and Obama, is that Obama demanded that if we were to bail out the banks they would need stiffer regulations and we would need to get as much of the money back as possible. In the TARP we have no idea where the money went or who got rich off from it. I am glad that Obama wanted to put a limit on how much the CEO's could profit from the government's largess. It turns out Republicans want socialistic welfare for the rich but not for the poor.
33 months ago: HNN and Altruist, you are both approaching this in a "defensive" manner that I feel is clouding you view of the actual importance of this piece. I am not recommending this person as "man of the year". I am not praising Russia as a great nation etc. The importance of this article is that it is written in a "matter of fact" manner. It is as if most of Russia already knows what is happening here and is saying "hey they want to run down that road then more power to them". They really don't care that much. You are treating it as if it is an attack. The thing the writer is attacking is our ignorance in not learning from their bitter mistake. It is of little concern to them what our politics are so to attack the writer means little to me because I am not presenting the writer I am presenting the article which has nothing to gain in respect to making something up or persuading people that socialism is happening in America when it is not. There is no political, monetary or any other gain this person will achieve by writing a fictional article.
33 months ago: Uhh, no. Jakarta99, this was written for Pravda, which is 100% pure tabloid propaganda. If an article appeared in it that said the sky is blue, I'd look out the window and double-check to be sure. "Most of Russia" isn't reflected by Pravda's English-language website.

Even if Russia somehow believes, as a country, that the U.S. is headed towards Marxism, why the hell should we care, when their writers lack the most basic understanding of Wall Street? If they can't even figure that out, I doubt we need to worry.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: You are right, Altruist.

Obama is spending more money in Afghanistan than ever before.

Is Patrick Kennedy a Republican?

I was just wondering, because he is listed as the main sponsor for EESA of 2008. (That's the law that contains Tarp) And he is a Democrat.

Voting record
House of Representatives
First vote
Democrats Aye 140 Nay 95
Republicans Aye 65 Nay 133

Senate

Democrats Aye 39 Nay 9
Republicans Aye 34 Nay 14

Final House vote to concur on Senate amendments
Democratic Aye 172 Nay 63

Republican Aye 91 Nay 108

Obama was on the Aye side, along with McCain.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Obama_senate_10_01_08.ogg
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: I knew it! I knew he was going to say that!
33 months ago: Altruist, OOTB is right on that one. The TARP funding was a bipartisan cluster****. I'm of the opinion that something like TARP was necessary - we might regret having allowed any company to become integral to the proper functioning of our economy ("too big to fail"), but we did and have to deal with the painful repercussions. Nevertheless, TARP passed with too few strings attached in the form of regulatory oversight, and both Democrats and Republicans are to blame.
33 months ago: HNN not only are the Russians who have experienced Marxism first hand suggesting we are headed toward Socialism but a large percentage of Americans (including myself) feel we are headed towards Socialism. You should also take another look at Pravda. It is far from being 100% tabloid. It has 80 year roots and covers a wide variety of topics. Even though You may wish it to be the equivalent of the National Enquirer it is not.
I do not feel you are interpreting the "Wall Street" remarks correctly. As I read it the writer states "But we Russians would not just roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls, no matter how much money Wall Street poured into the fists of the Marxists". This is an indication that there were persons who sponsored Socialism and also conducted business on Wall Street which I have little doubt is true. As you seem to interpret it Wall Street had direct connections with the Kremlin. I don't feel that is the point the writer was making.
33 months ago: Also HNN if your computer is up to speed you can click the Russian language tab on the top right and see the article is also in Russian. It is the same with Indonesian papers and I assume many others. My wife reads the Indonesian paper in Indonesian and I chose the English edition when I read it, so no this is not just an "English edition" article
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: That is correct. He was also referring to the Wall Street affiliated appointees Obama made to the Staff and Cabinet positions.

His point about the firing of GM's CEO wasthat, in a free trade society, government should not (and legally does not) have anything to say about private who runs a private business. Our government staged a leveraged, hostile takeover of GM, and this guy knows enough about Wall Street to recognize it when he sees it.

He then goes on to stress the dangers of letting government do this, for if they can do it to one company, they can do it ti all.

He apparently knows more about our laws than we do generally, because what he says about the government being able to control any company that has EVER received government funding, including tax breaks, is in the EESA of 2008.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: You should go back and read about the protests against the TARP bill, which were also primarily conservative based. They didn't get nearly the coverage as this last round of protests, because the oligarchs did not want the publicity.
You should also read the bill itself, and see the road we are going down. This healthcare flap is nothing compared to the enormity of that blank check legislation. The 800 billion figure they reported for TARP was just a down payment. We ain't seen nothing yet. And Obama was right there, preaching for it with all the rest. So don't be fooled, my brothers. All is not well, all is not as it seems.
33 months ago: OK, this has gotten truly, truly silly.

I propose a bet. In six months, if we have descended into Marxism and totalitarian control over our every movement, if we all work for the state, and we're all living in a collectivist nightmare, deprived of all private property, I will use whatever remains of my wealth Obama's enforcement team hasn't extracted from me to finance tickets out of the decaying corpse of a country that was once the beacon of liberty, and you guys will be at the top of the list.

If, on the other hand, the country is fine, you guys owe me nothing. Nada. Zilch. Do we have a bet?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: Read the laws. Emergency Economic Stability Act of 2008

Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: And the guy said the economy would resemble Zimbabwe's in six months, not the government. I give it more like two years, maybe thirty months.
33 months ago: Good one Gregoire!

Yes I agree OOTB it will settle in I believe rather than be an overnight thing. I suspect however the writer had the potential of hyper-inflation in mind which is still a threat, particularly if Obama and co. continue to fabricate more stimulus money. If we did go into hyper-inflation mode six months could put us into a third world economical status. Hopefully that won't happen however.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: What everyone else does is their business. I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and wait to find out. My assets are liquid enough to get my hands on them quickly, if needed, except for the ones tied up in the government. Food and shelter and fuel for the generators are my top priorities. I hope things turn around for the better, but I'm not banking on it.
33 months ago: Hey Noni Noni, i'll take that bet. I would like my ticket to be to Tahiti please. I've heard the place is lovely I would like to see it for myself.
33 months ago: @dangerranger

You're on. So, when the country and economy are still in one piece in six months, I'm curious what the explanation from conservatives will be. I'm guessing something like "uhh, it's because we were able to dilute the socialism enough to prevent disaster."

I can't wait to hear what the excuse will be if the country is actually doing well.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: SS, Don't get me wrong, 'cause I do like you, but that has to be one of the most retarded things I have ever read.
How many millionaire Democrats are in the government fighting for your right for "free this" and "free that"? How many millionaire liberals backed Obama in his meteoric rise through the ranks?
How many millionaire liberal leaders want you to just sit back and relax, and let them take care of things for you? Just trot your vote out when they tell you to, and they can take it from there.
And now, how many billionaire corporations are coming out of the woodwork to back socialized health care?
Obama is nouveau-riche, and hasn't even helped his own impoverished family, that I know of.
I would think that a person in the lower levels of the party would be more likely to sell me out trying to curry favor with the bosses.

We just want to be our own bosses.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: Well, we are diluting it a little at a time. The author did say,

"If this keeps up for more then another year, and there is no sign that it will not, America at best will resemble the Wiemar Republic and at worst Zimbabwe."

The piece was posted on April 29, 2009, which gives a prediction date of April 30, 2009, even though he did not say it would be an immediate reaction, we'll play along. We will protest loud and long the TARP II bill before congress, the Frank amendments to the original EESA, and any more flagrant government borrowing.

Not to try to bring you down or anything, but:

Federal debt has been growing much faster than the economy according to Sheila Weinberg, Founder and CEO of The Institute for Truth in Accounting. The organization sponsors the www.truthinaccounting.org web site which estimates the nation's total obligations. "The nation's "official debt" is more than $11 trillion but the "real" national debt -- which includes promises of Social Security, Medicare and other social insurance promises -- has just crossed $61 trillion. That works out to a staggering $200,000 for every one of America's 305 million residents."
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: correction: prediction date of April 30, 2010
33 months ago: Those are some sobering numbers OOTB. It would stand to reason that without an explosive economy, some drastic cuts or some extensive "controls" in place it will be very difficult to get a handle on this run away train. I don't see the first two happening with this administration.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
33 months ago: Kind of hard for the rich to pick up that kind of tab. It would be kind of hard for the entire world to pick it up, considering the World GDP is around 60 trillion. The problem isn't in our internal borrowing, because all money is just paper now anyway. That's how the same money can be owned by many people at the same time, through depositing in banks, the bank loans your money out, the borrower spends it for goods, the recipient puts it in the bank in his name, and you still have your money, and the last guy in the chain has his money, which used to be your money, and still is your money.
The big problem is when we run out of ways to create new money here, (which we have) without creating runaway inflation,(which we are about to) and we start borrowing from other countries, our dollar devalues, so we end up paying back way more than we borrowed. The only way to catch up is to create weaker and weaker dollars, driving up inflation faster. Zimbabwe, as you remember, printed up currency trying to get out of the inflation hole, and their inflation reached 89.7 sextillion% annually. There is a tipping point that just can't be undone.

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