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Rant

Forced Religious Ritual Participation at Public School

Posted 1 month ago|74 comments|432 views
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Have you ever attended a sporting event at a public schools and been forced to participate in a religious ritual? Not talking about a brief moment of silence or other non-verbal event, more of a "you have to be quiet and listen/participate or be shunned or have the crap beat out of you" type of event. Would you consider that a violation of your right NOT to participate in a religion?

You paid the entry fee to attend the sporting event as a spectator not a participant. There were no signs stating that the public school you were entering was affiliated with a particular brand of religion and no signs stating that religious rituals would be practiced sometime during the game or immediately after and no mass mailings that informed you that your tax dollars were being used to promote a particular brand of religion at the public schools. And much to your surprise, being the first sporting event you have attended at this particular school in a few years, the entire audience seemed to know it was going to happen, except you.

There is not a problem with a team of players having a group prayer before or after the game in the locker room, they have a choice to attend or participate in such things, but we, the tax and entry fee paying public do not get that choice. We are forced to participate in a religious ritual simply because we can't disappear from the premises at the moment the event is over, or worse, before it even begins. We paid to see a team play a sport, not practice their religion, and once they have finished playing, exit the playing field/court, not sit or kneel and recite scripture or other religious documents while we are captive until they complete it.

There are an abundance of religious fanatics on this site so I expect to be lambasted with more scripture quoting and multitudes of justification for allowing this type of forced religious participation to go on without complaint, but maybe there will be other voices that will be heard that can shed unbiased opinion on this topic.


When is a religious prayer or recitation allowed in a public school or school sponsored activity? Specifically recitation of "The Lords Prayer", at the conclusion of a basketball game by both teams in the center of the court. This was not a "special" event, just a game between two public schools.
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COMMENTS
1 month ago: Six. I thought you were pro-choice. Is it only selective choice. I actually agree that there should be total separation. A moment of silence is sufficient.

religious fanatics? please.
1 month ago: Different topic Truth, different topic.
1 month ago: My mistake, TCG. Forgive me. Truth was on my feeble mind and my fingers just went nuts on the keys.
1 month ago: Six. No need. Some of us are grown ups. The whiners that run away are the ones that need stroking.
1 month ago: BTW. You think it is a different topic but it is linked because you can't pick and choose a Pro-Choice topic based upon your personal preferences. You can't be Pro-Choice and support abortion and be Anti-Choice for religion...etc. Such a belief only makes one a hypocrite and unworthy of any standing.

You really don't see any linkage?

Can't have it both ways bro... it's not a ''your way street''.

I don't like my tax dollars being spent on public abortions...

I'm sure that in no way is linked to your complaint...
1 month ago: I can see your point but the terminology is usually tied to abortion only. Expanding it to living human beings and I am Pro-Choice, very much so. I'll fight anyone who tries to take my right to choose for myself (and before the offspring turned 18, them).

I don't like my tax dollars spent to raise other people children while they play video games and do drugs on even more of my tax dollars. I expect to see them (the parents) at least trying to better themselves so they can take over the job of raising their own kids, or at least contributing to the cost.
1 month ago: I have to say that I agree on separation and a right of choice in this case. Like TCG said, a moment of silence is sufficient for such an event.

On the gripping hand, there is such thing as tradition, and it was obvious that everybody knew what will happen and was willing to participate.

Still, the choice of not participating should be taken into consideration and the school obviously failed to do that.
1 month ago: A new tradition is not a tradition. I have attended many events at this public school, sports and otherwise, this is new, moment of silence and even a non-denominational prayer could have been expected as this is the South, but a re-citation of a religious ritual prayer? Not tradition.
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1 month ago: Six I agree with you. We shouldn't have to endure anything we don't believe in, in public tax-paid events. But when those of religious convictions bring this up, they are labeled as intolerant, bigoted and haters. Have you become one?
1 month ago: Since when would "those of religious convictions" bring up not wanting to be forced to participate in a religious ritual? Seems they are the ones who want to get those rituals in to the public schools as a way to "evangelacalize" the sinners.

Me? Intolerant? Bigoted? A hater? Not very nice of you to even question my convictions. Guess you haven't read much of what I write. That or I just don't know who or what I stand for.

Thanks for the support though, we all agree to disagree at times.
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1 month ago: Sorry Six,

A misunderstanding; I am saying that many force us to endure a "gay" agenda, religiously forced on us and in schools and government (even forcing clergy to make gay marriages)... or the belief in a certain unmorality also forced religiously (secular humanism, and hedonism) in those same schools... and we that object to paying homage to the "monkey gods" of Darwinism... are then labeled as such intolerant, bigoted, and haters. I was not saying you were... just saying your objection of anything in a public school, should equally be deemed as such.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
29 days ago: "A misunderstanding; I am saying that many force us to endure a "gay" agenda, religiously forced on us and in schools and government (even forcing clergy to make gay marriages)... or the belief in a certain unmorality also forced religiously (secular humanism, and hedonism) in those same schools... and we that object to paying homage to the "monkey gods" of Darwinism... are then labeled as such intolerant, bigoted, and haters. I was not saying you were... just saying your objection of anything in a public school, should equally be deemed as such."

Forced to endure a gay agenda? The fact that you have a particular religious view does not give you the right to govern based on it (read/comprehend the Constitution). Your hatred for gay's is not a reason that they (human beings) should have their rights taken away (they don't try to tell you that straight marriage is wrong). The problem is that the "gay" agenda is simply trying to uphold the Constitution, while the religious agenda is trying to destroy the Constitution and replace it with the bible.

Nobody has ever forced clergy to marry a gay couple. What about you and the religious nuts like you who try to force the clergy who are willing to marry gay couples to not do so????
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29 days ago: Perfect,

First you don't know me, I don't have a hatred for gays! I care for and love anyone whom I meet for counselling or by friendship... without any criteria as a prerequisite for my approval. You seriously don't have a clue! I have lasting relationships with homosexuals in our community, and treat them with a mutual friendship and kindness, as I do my other friends. And when they read this, they would agree. What you fail to understand, is that my friends and I can mutually agree on is forced sex education of any sort; forced religion indoctrination of any sort; forced political agendas of any sort! When a movement has to use manipulation ignorance abuse and militancy of any sort, it has lost it's respect and validity.

When a "movement" is based on sexual abuse (like pornography) it is wrong, no matter who gets their jollies or how much money it gives a community. IF an industry enslaves people by threats or abduction (like sex trafficking) it is wrong, no matter if it is legal or not. SO it is with any "education" or enlistment recruitment by means of brainwashing to get new adherents pundits or defendants, it is wrong, legal or not; religious or not!

Gay Columnist: "we want to "indoctrinate children"
http://rantrave.com/Rant/Gay-Columnist-w...

Clergy could be sued if they refuse to carry out 'gay marriages'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion...

Don't force clergy to marry gays
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/...
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
29 days ago: I know you and your kind very well. "I have gay friends so it's ok that I hate "gays" as a community".

Your willingness to strip away the rights of a group of people because of your RELIGIOUS views is a crystal clear display of your hatred of many things, including but not limited to: (your Canadian so its pretty irrelevant that you hate America), Liberty, Civil Rights, Human Beings, Gay People...I could continue but there is no point, I have no interest in interacting with hateful people such as yourself. There are hundreds if not thousands of clergy in the United States that would happily marry gay couples (they, unlike you are not filled with hate). I'm done with you and your hate-mongering agenda.
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29 days ago: Perfect,

Is that foam coming from your mouth? I disagree with other religious ministers; I even disagree with the political views of others; I disagree with polygamists; I disagree with pornographers; I disagree with warmongers; I disagree with you... none of which congers up hate. If you weren't so hateful of me, you might practice what you preach about being tolerant. I don't preach tolerance, rather dialogue, so everyone can discern what is logical and relevant... some would call that "freedom of speech" or claim that as a constitutional right!
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
29 days ago: Your right to say that you are anti-gay marriage or anti-abortion ENDS when you attempt to govern using a religious point of view. Freedom of Speech...indeed, you have the right to be heard, you have no RIGHT to be take seriously and I have every right to call it like it is from you and people like you...you are full of hatred. What gives you the RIGHT to stop a minister who is willing to marry a gay couple from doing so? The Constitution does not protect religious driven hatred that you prescribe to. I have no tolerance for any religious dogmatic hateful attempt at governance by a fake moral code (Christianity least of all).
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
29 days ago: This sum's it up perfectly:
http://i.imgur.com/mpQA0.jpg
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29 days ago: Perfect,

You are frothing at the mouth! IF you think that the constitution can be amended to redefine "normal" marriage and protect that... it can be amended to describe perversion and by democratic majority condemn it. By over protestation and force of the few, has caused a retaliation of the majority that were willing to allow serve and protect... but when they become forced and controlled they overcome and those controlling few loose the rights they had long ago had liberty to hold. Get the picture? By a forced Gay agenda, they may force the majority to draw lines as a democracy, removing those things that the homosexual community now enjoys... simply they by their over doing it, may be their undoing it.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
28 days ago: You are truly an idiot. This will be my last response to you...I have literally 0 time or interest in your hateful agenda.

p.s. The Constitution and our laws are designed to protect the minorities (gays) from the majority (hateful christians)
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28 days ago: Sorry PH,

Here is the link to my Rant "for the record"
Molotov Mitchell video blasts 'gay' sex activist
http://rantrave.com/Rant/Molotov-Mitchel...
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28 days ago: PH,

You can play the victim all you want, but who is going to protect us from hatemongers like your Dan Savage? I know, Molotov Mitchell, and his response to Dan Savage in...

"WHO HATES RICK SANTORUM?"
http://www.wnd.com/2011/12/377121/

...I guess, if there was only one side to a conversation...
it would have already been over.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
28 days ago: wnd.com? You must be joking...citing Extreme Right Wing publications is not an effective way to try and support and argument. Come back with some scholarly evidence and maybe you will have a point.

I am not playing a victim. I just feel that the Constitution in it's entirety should be upheld (i.e. not just the parts I like). Religion has ZERO rights when it comes to governance...ZERO. You have the right to freely worship whatever you want in your church, house, car and other private areas. Heck, you can even worship in public (as long as you let every other faith that wants to also worship in the same public space at the same time). The Constitution was designed to protect minorities from majorities (for example, its designed to protect non-Christians from Christians). You and people like you are so filled with hate and brainwashed by religious dogma that you feel the need to try and impose your thinking on others...it's unConstitutional, immoral, and wrong. Nobody wants to force a clergy to marry gay couples, but you sure as hell want to stop clergy who do want to marry gay people from doing so. Marriage is the joining of two people who love each other in a legal contract...that government contract should not recognize the sex of the 2 people but rather be based on the same requirements of other contracts...2 or more WILLING PARTIES...that's it. Now I realize that you are blinded by hate, but there are a lot of people, religious and non, that are not like you...that feel that marriage between two people who are adults and willing to enter into the contract should be allowed. You have ZERO right to tell them they are not allowed to. Make an argument that is not related to the bible or your hateful dogmatic beliefs (cite evidence from scholarly sources) and then you will at the very least have something to stand on.
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28 days ago: Secular humanism is religion, Atheism is a religion... one must believe they are right in order to have a debate... and yes it bears on everything we do or uphold, like the constitution of a nation. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman, it has never been homosexual... that is until now. By redefining a term defined by every nation in the world, the homosexual forces their agenda, instead of simply offering a new term to describe their choice. And I wouldn't have a problem with that. But to redefine marriage, and to try and rewrite history, is an attack on all cultural norms and practices.

You can cry foul, and say that it is "hateful" all you want, just because someone disagrees with you... but you fail to bring to the table any reference, that logically substantiates your position for taking away the rights of people that have enjoyed their culture for ever. Your side wants to use the "poor minority me" to redefine the constitutional rights of the majority... sorry if we don't take it.
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28 days ago: Perfect,

Here is website created by ex-gays and holds their own experiences and stories, you may disagree, however these are living real lives with real changes and hopes...

Exodus International
http://exodusinternational.org/resources...#.TyBbYqVSTCW

...are these ex-gays merely all haters too?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
28 days ago: exodusinternational? Stop citing church based theological crap...scholarly sources...not brainwashers.

How about the hundreds of thousands of gays around the world...what about them?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
28 days ago: Christian Marriage...not all marriage...marriage is a contract that people enter into...why legal reasons are there for not allowing two consenting adults from entering into a contract?

It's not about the fact that you disagree with me...its the fact that you are filled with brainwashed hatred fed out of oppressive religious dogma. You have no real reason to hate the gays...you simply do because some man (probably a child rapist) told you to.

Homosexuality is found in thousands of species in nature...homophobia is found in exactly ONE...which is unnatural???
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
28 days ago: "why legal reason"

*what* legal reasons
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28 days ago: Perfect Lee Blind,

You don't accept anyone's story if they were gay and changed, because you are the one filled with hate. Many are leaving that lifestyle, for one that is wholesome and meaningful... you just can't except it, because you have had your head filled with an agenda that calls everyone haters, if the simply don't agree with you. Most gays coming out of that lifestyle are very much threatened and attacked for their honesty, by those who exploited them for their agenda. You appease your position by calling them religious, yet days before, as homosexuals, you defended them as the underprivileged minority... now they are another minority 'ex-gays' and they still need your help.
1 month ago: Truth. It is fair to question a persons brain but not his heart / soul. That would be Gods job. Sorry.
1 month ago: Anyone know how to get a question via email to the ACLU? Our local state branch only takes phone messages or snailmail.
1 month ago: Are you prepared to get eaten alive? You don't think you will?

Let's just ask a few questions that come to mind...

I'm sure the ACLU will need the honest answers...

1) Was this a public event
2) Did you pay to attend
3) Were you restricted
4) What did you find offensive
5) When did the offense take place
6) Who performed the offense
7) Where was the offense
8) Why were you offended
9) How were you impacted (physically/mentally/financally/etc.)
10) Did you complain
11) Did you ask for a refund
12) Did you leave
13) Have you contacted anyone or made a statement regarding this matter

Depending on those answers I'll have a few follow ups to each.

FYI

ACLU contact info...

http://www.aclu.org/contact-us
1 month ago: 1) Was this a public event Yes

2) Did you pay to attend Yes

3) Were you restricted
In what way?

4) What did you find offensive
Re-citation of a religious ritual/prayer that I was forced by common courtesy to not interrupt and was not given the opportunity to leave before or during as there was no warning a religious event was going to occur

5) When did the offense take place
Immediately following post game hand-shake ritual

6) Who performed the offense
Member from both teams

7) Where was the offense
Public School Gym after a scheduled sporting event

8) Why were you offended
Wasn't asked if I wanted to participate in religious rituals before or after paying to attend sporting event

9) How were you impacted (physically/mentally/financially/etc.)
Forced to be silent and remain in my seat, offended that a religious ritual was included in a sporting event financed by my taxes, required to pay taxes to support public school that uses religious rituals I don't agree with and forced to pay fee to attend the event even though I pay taxes to support public schools (double taxes)

10) Did you complain
Not to officials of the schools system, I expect to be ridiculed and possibly publically embarrassed for questioning the goings on at a public school as I am not attending one at this time so would be considered unknowledgeable about the goings-on there. It could also be financially or career damaging to my associates to complain without gathering information first. Getting public opinion first and attempted to ask ACLU if there is reason to file suit or request they restrict their religious rituals to the locker room.

11) Did you ask for a refund
No, I did attend the event

12) Did you leave
Yes, the game was over

13) Have you contacted anyone or made a statement regarding this matter
Only to Rant/Rave web site and my wife, the ACLU doesn't have email access in this state or I would have put the question to that body of legal information first
1 month ago: Sorry Six. You don't have a case. I could ask more questions but your answers above do not require additional follow ups.
1 month ago: Valid complaint but no case...... Not surprised. Of course the legal system is a fickle thing so won't just forget it without more data. Thanks.
1 month ago: Just giving you my opinion. Have been seated on many jury trials in my life. Including being sequestered for three weeks on a Federal Civil Rights Trial involving the death of Joe Campos Torres.

http://tinyurl.com/6q988l6
1 month ago: Ouch, must have been a real lesson in law. Haven't read much on that case but seems the punishments were a bit lacking.

As always, your opinion is valued and appreciated.
1 month ago: Federal punishments are set by the Judge. Not the Jury.
1 month ago: Let me tell you from first hand knowledge about the ACLU.

If they can't make a ton of money or headlines they won't fight your battle.

Case in point....

My wife was fire from a job while being 6 months along during a difficult and costly pregnancy. I mean very costly as she was placed into the hospital and then stricken to bed because of hemorrhaging. The ACLU reviewed the case and did not file for a single claim.

Female
Pregnant
Medical
Termination
Loss of earnings
Mental

The ACLU is not your friend. They are into self postulation.
1 month ago: A personal laywer should have been your first stop, not the ACLU. They might have been your second stop to help other's in that situation. Sorry, hope you got justice from another source.

No "lawyer" is my friend, I have friends who are lawyers, but the justice system is just a tool to be used and so far I'm too poor to use it.
1 month ago: Anyone know how to get a question via email to the ACLU? Our local state branch only takes phone messages or snailmail.
1 month ago: I have to say:

"Too bad you live in a country founded by Christians to spread Christianity in the first place."


How about praying like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQyXd33Y1...

anonymouse
anonymouse
Swaziland
1 month ago: Red,

Good ref to a prayer, for one of the biggest anti-Christ Presidents ever!
1 month ago: Coming from a person which won't post under their own identity?

Right Siempre....
26 days ago: Cypress:

You can spot him a mile away, can't you?
anonymouse
anonymouse
Swaziland
26 days ago: Mmmm
anonymouse
anonymouse
Swaziland
26 days ago: i actually like the compliment, but no not Siempre or DJ ...you guys forget I could be you... "laughter"
26 days ago: Without my glasses.
anonymouse
anonymouse
Swaziland
26 days ago: all anyone needs to do is sign into this profile and put: "anonymousespy@yahoo.com" as the mail and "anonymouse" as password and you too an be anonymousespy...
26 days ago: Good to know Owlyfake... uh, Siempreflake.
29 days ago: RSG, I believe they came here to avoid religious persecution, not to establish a new country based upon a particular religion. In fact, they had to fight a war to separate this country from another one, actually more than one as the French and Spanish had some claims on the place too.

As to their religious beliefs, they just wanted to practice their religion, their way, not someone else's, not specifically to force their religion upon others, even if they did at times. The Catholic Church was one of the worst for forcing their brand of religion upon the "natives" on this continent and the one to the south of us, but they didn't found countries to do it.

It doesn't matter what religion the founders of this country followed or did not follow, they made sure that when they got done, no one religion was allowed to be forced upon the citizens of this country. It is up to us citizens living today and in the future to ensure that it stays that way, no matter how many "religious right" voters try to remove our freedoms given to us by our country's founders.

Something for e very voter to think about. Is your vote being used to deny religious freedom for another citizen? Your preacher, pastor, priest, rabbi many be a good man or woman and he may believe he is trying to do good by crossing the line into politics and encouraging his/her "flock" to vote a certain way, but it is illegal, morally wrong and not their job to get laws passed that restrict religious freedoms of those not of their faith.
26 days ago: It was.

Lief Erickson had a Christian pastor on his first boat, and one of the first things he did was build a CHURCH.

The very first thing Christopher Columbus did was erect a CROSS where he first set foot in the New World.

Every Charter in the New World attributed the effort to spread the word.

Every Constitution........

What in the samhill do you think drives this goal of religious freedom? Roller Derby?
Etc. etc. etc.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
29 days ago: Considering the old saying: "Ignorance is bliss" you must be the happiest person alive red
26 days ago: No pfct.

Mostly worried. Mostly.
1 month ago: Prayer according to Jesus Christ is to be done in private not in a public setting. So this type of bombastic self-promotion of pseudo Christian piety is not only a farce of the highest form but a breach of one of our most basic American values. A public institution has no place promoting the form of religion. If the team chose to pray of their own, accord, on their own time that would be a whole different story.
29 days ago: Thanks D, I agree. Let your light shine but don't stick it in my eye!
28 days ago: You're welcome. It's a pet peeve of mine too Six. Works of mercy and charity speak volumes of a person's character when he keeps his piety to himself. But the more he spouts of religious rhetoric the more phony he begins to appear, especially with prayer because that is like a conversation with whomever it is you are praying to. Imagine if someone was claiming to have a conversation with you while all the while he was broadcasting it with a speakerphone to everyone but you. Would that make any sense? Public events need to be accessible to all not become an opportunity for proselytizing.
28 days ago: Whoa just a second D. Let me make sure I understand your statement.

You say it is not OK for any pro-relegious stance in a public forum?

Did I get that correct?
28 days ago: Didn't think you would have the guts. Sorry folks. I'll check back tomorrow afternoon. My body clock goes off in about 7 hours to go to work.
27 days ago: So THE WRONG goes fishing again. DJ wrote "public event" (as in state sponsored) and THE WRONG retorts "public forum" as if THE WRONG does not know the difference but THE WRONG does love to play with buzzwords, so sad.
27 days ago: State sponsored D? Really. What State? The Federal State?
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
29 days ago: Good rant Six.

TB's comparison to having to endure gay marriages is totally off the wall and unrelated. Allowing other people to express their love to each other has nothing to do with religious beliefs and if TB is invited to such a wedding all he needs to do is decline to attend if he objects to it.

If TB went to any Muslim countries he would probably be upset by being woken up with the call to prayers as the sun came up and 4 other times during the day. http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas...

It seems pretty hypocritical of Christians to condemn Muslims when they foist their religion on others but then see nothing wrong with doing the same.

Most of the people who originally came to this country from Europe were fleeing religious oppression and the founders of the nation were careful to enshrine the freedom from religion in our constitution.

Thanks Red!

Pastor Joel Hunters Prayer was and still is very appropriate because Jesus did preach that we should care for the poor and downtrodden. closing benedictions at conventions are common and to be expected but at least he was careful to invite those who believed to join him.

I think you are right Red, those darn Democrats should stop all of that proselytizing.
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29 days ago: Altruist,

I said "force us to endure a "gay" agenda, religiously forced on us and in schools and government" like what is being taught in schools and every other facet of society, along with gay pride demonstrations...

Gay Agenda Being Forced on California Kids
http://281exposed.wordpress.com/2011/07/...

...what I am saying is one prayer, so what... what about an entire curriculum dedicated to the indoctrination of anyone attending, or visiting.

And look at you jump from a prayer in a school and compare it to Muslims converting someone with a sword in the name of Allah... that is religious oppression! Not a few words at a school game or meeting. If that is your argument, you obviously have no idea what oppression or persecution.

BTW, I don't boo gay pride demonstrations, I am just saying what's fair is fair.
29 days ago: All schools have a curriculum. If it is slanted to promote homosexuality then it is a poor curriculum, same if it is slanted to condemn it. The curriculum should promote equal treatment of all, straight, gay, bi, male, female, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Native born, legal immigrant. I feel you would support a biased curriculum as long as it supported goals you feel are important even thought they were against 99% of the citizens of this country's beliefs.

Was it not one of your heroes who said something about a mustard seed? Small things ideas are big damage they can cause. One uninvited prayer, forced upon all in attendance, may seem small but from the reaction of the audience, I'd say they have already changed the "curriculum" of this public school into one that promotes one religion over others. Might be an unintended consequence but someone dropped the ball and now there is a "Christian" school being paid for by taxes paid by free citizens who didn't know they were supporting a religious school….

The locker room would have been a much better locale for the teams to express their beliefs, not the center of the gym floor between games.
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29 days ago: Six,

If you are going to quote the God of The Universe (my hero), then do it accurately, He was talking about faith that could move anything, by simple obedience to His Word and teachings, and in this case Jesus was casting out a demon from the life of a man's son (not necessarily a child)...

Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once. Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?" And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." (Matthew 17:18-20)


28 days ago: You mean I'm not allowed to pick and chose like every religious nut I've ever been subjected to?

I was just using the idea that something so small could be so damaging.
29 days ago: Thanks Al. I've been to those countries. The call comes many times a day and if you are not a follower can be embarrassing. Not the worst thing, better than being left-handed and eating from the communal food tray!

I've found that hypocrites are very blind to their own sins.
26 days ago: "It seems pretty hypocritical of Christians to condemn Muslims when they foist their religion on others but then see nothing wrong with doing the same."

uh.....er.... Al.

We're condeming murdering, want to kill Americans, terrorist, scumbags. Period.

Whether or not they are Muslims, or whether or not they have freckles on their butts, I don't care.

29 days ago: As for Muslims and how they practice their religion in their countries, it is their country. They are not a free people, they are subject to the law they chose to be over them, Sharia Law. The founders of their countries were not of the same mindset as the founders of this one and for those that became subject to SL in the last few decades, the people chose it, even if they didn't get much say in it, they didn't fight to win their freedom or they tried and failed. Probably because they practice a religion that denies the individual the right to choose thereby removing the desire to be free.

If you have never been free, if someone has always told you what was right and wrong, if someone made all your moral decisions for you by writing down rules that resulted in death to break them, if the very idea of freedom from religion was punishable, would you want to be free? Especially free to choose?

Muslims converting victims at the tip of a sword, Christian Crusaders converting victims at the base of a cross, either method results in death for those who do not want to convert or surrender of freedom for those who do in order to live. At least the Christian's learned (after a few million needless deaths) that forced conversion is not in their best interest, or the religions best interest. Maybe sometime in the next thousand years the Muslims will get the message although I don't hold much hope since they haven't learned it in the last thousand plus, required a re-write of some of their sacred texts.

Hopefully I am not to far astray from the main idea that forced participation in other persons religion in this country is not something to be practiced in a public school activity. Using examples of past historic events/actions to give validation to my original rant's reason for being is easier for me than just lashing out at someone for trying to justify illegal activity.
27 days ago: It so tickles me. The word "undergod" in our flag pledge, reciting the Lord's Prayer at a basketball game. It so tickles me. These are indeed rituals. These take of very little of a person's life, Tolerate it, I say. If you don't wish to say the word, don't. Recognize that other people are saying words and listen to their uhhh, devotion, ritual, whatever you call it. Yawn to yourself and tolerate your fellow man's foolishness. Of, if it is not foolishness, then participate.
26 days ago: Poor terry, missed the point again.....
26 days ago: Six, the point everyone is talking about and the point I am replying about are different points. You just told me that you can not see my point as applying at all, anyway. That's fine. I did not intend to reply to the point made, nor to the points everyone is hammering at. Those are not very important points is what I am saying. For one word in a pledge to a flag, undergod, there were enormous sums in court cases and other, nonsense stuff that happened. And similar happens today. People get upset over such. I'm saying the whole point is moot, nearly moot. So small that a click of the tongue misses the word, life goes on.
26 days ago: Terryohhh. Have you ever sworn and oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution?

What is the last one named in the oath?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
25 days ago: I was forced to listen to Steven Tyler shred the National Anthem.

Nobody notified me in writing or otherwise.

I was forced to watch scantily clad cheerleaders which were in the viewing area of the game. Nobody asked me if it was ok. Most of the others in attendance seemed to think it was the norm.

I was forced to be exposed to the smell of animal flesh being seared slathered with mustard and ketchup on processed flour buns. Nobody thought to ask me if I would be offended. The majority of people seemed to accept it without question.

Don't even get me started on the open sale of alcohol, with beer vendors marching up and down the aisles in plain sight, and the drunken idiots yelling obscenities at the players and referees...

I'm sorry, did you have a problem with the thirty seconds long prayer?
Truthbrary
Truthbrary
Canada
25 days ago: You Rock!

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