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Rant

Employment: Race & Discrimination

Posted 34 months ago|14 comments|639 views
VIDEOS
Written by
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
Recently I wrote a rant about affirmative action and discrimination. Most agreed with my assertion that discrimination is discrimination, regardless of who ends up on top.

Chief Justice John Roberts once said, "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race, is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”

Now the Supreme Court will be ruling again on whether or not race can be used as a determining factor in the hiring process. so called "benign discrimination," has been in practice for many years now, but employers who wish to avoid lawsuits will be watching this next case very closely

The case involves "20 firefighters from New Haven, Connecticut. In 2003, the city administered a test to determine eligibility for command positions in the force. No black firefighters passed the test, which consisted of a multiple-choice exam and an oral question-and-answer section.

The city opted to throw out the rest results and suspend firefighter promotions, citing US civil rights law that prohibits employment practices that harm minorities. That decision prompted 20 firefighters who passed the test to sue" (VOA).

I have been researching many of the cases on race that have been taken to the Supreme Court. Now the court is extremely hostile to Affirmative Action, and using race to determine policy. From what i've seen, I expect the Supreme Court will rule against the employer, citing that you cannot throw out a test which many demonstrated command-level ability just because no blacks passed.

It is clear that the race issue is still alive in America today, but looking at the history of these cases, the way to solve the issue is to award these positions based on merit.

Justice needs to be color-blind, it really bothered me that the article mentioned that this is the first race case to hit the Supreme Court after we have our first African-American president.


The Bottom Line: Supreme Court is hostile towards using race as a factor for employment, see P.I.C.S. v Seattle. The swing vote is Moderate-Conservative Anthony Kennedy, and he will probably side against the employer. The way to end discrimination is to stop discriminating.

Thanks For Reading, Cheers!
____________

Links In The Sidebar:

1. VOA NEWS SOURCE
2. Affirmative Action Rant
3. Coloranter Raver's Suggested Further Reading

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COMMENTS
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
34 months ago: ATTENTION: YOUTUBE HAS FOUL LANGUAGE.

so don't watch it if you don't want to hear it.

But it gives the bottom line on Affirmative Action pretty accurately.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: Let me walk you through this scenario if I may, and let you apply it to the situation you describe. And, I'm changing the names to protect the innocent.

I once worked at a 5th grade - 12th grade school in the USA. After a week of being there, it was brought to my attention there were no black students in the high school honors math classes. I was asked if there were black students in the middle school honors classes. I researched this by comparing the racial designations put on forms by parents and guardians that self-disclosed the racial information of their children upon applying to the school and found, indeed, that there were many black children in the middle school honors math classes. This caused a ruckus in the school because suddenly it was inexplicable that any of these black students in honors math in middle school weren't being placed in honors math in the high school division of the same school using the upper school honors math placement test. This had apparently been going on for as long as I could determine using the records available to me.

TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
34 months ago: Well, i have to say, the problem is asking race.

If students who take the test have a number, with only a name attached in a file, they get into the honors classes based on merit.

Also, i don't know if this is the case here, but at Haverford High School, where i went, you parent could over rule any recommendation and stick their child in any level, all they had to do was sign a piece of paper.

I have also seen a good black friend of mine purposely drop down levels to be in classes with her other friends. She was a very bright girl, but some of her friends weren't.

Either way, I would need more clarification on the situation, but the solution to me is black and white: Don't use race period, don't ask it, don't even have a place to supply it. We live in a meritocracy for Christ's sake! You get where you should go based on how you perform, period.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: Yes, you are on the right track. Number coding the tests would have been a good step in the right direction in this case. However, it is possible that the upper school teachers have designed a test that discriminates based on race – either intentionally or unintentionally – in which case number coding wouldn't help.

This is one of the dirty little secrets of test design. The most classic example we learned about in grad school was a test designed that unintentionally discriminated upon the intelligence of kids that lived in a certain region of New Jersey near Great Adventure. They discovered this only because someone in the test analysis division that was created to evaluate schools found it odd that so many kids from one school district got a particular question wrong. It turned out that there was a question on the test that asked kids to identify a farm animal. These kids has all selected the giraffe and not the cow. So, they were marked wrong on the test and their school was in trouble. It turned out they got this impression about giraffes from signage along the route to Great Adventure that seemed to indicate that giraffes were in the Animal Farm section if I'm remembering this correctly. In any case, the point of the story is that test design is complicated and can discriminate against anyone without realizing it.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: Meanwhile, it is also possible, in my school example, that there was something inherently deficient in the way that the middle school honors math kids were either guiding, teaching, coaching, directing, or mentoring the black vs the non-black kids. If they were doing things like not answering their questions completely or giving them a pass for not turning in homework figuring their home life was tough, who knows it could be anything that failed in the proper preparation of the kids for the honors math in high school. It could also be that the test was designed to explore the depth of knowledge of mathematics in general as the test was used on rising 8th graders as well as 8th graders coming from other schools. It could test on things that kids only learn well in a lower grade and that most kids in public schools don't cover. Who knows? The point is that something is wrong. It cannot be that in 15 years, no black kid who attended one of the most elite private schools in the nation was ever qualified for honors math.

Likewise, in your scenario, it is too coincidental that no black firefighters with similar experience, training, and background would pass the exam. It tends to mean something in the process is flawed and biased toward one group or another.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: We have to accept two things in this world:
(a) People make mistakes, all the time.
(b) There are some people out there who are racist.

It's impossible to know if the firefighters exam was flawed, the training was flawed, or there was actual racial bias involved without a thorough investigation and still maybe not even then. But one thing is for certain, a process that yields only command positions of one race is racist. Isn't it?

Again, I'm recommending a little walk down the white privilege lane. The day you are discriminated against because of your race, gender, etc. is the day you will stop writing things like "...for Christ's sake! You get where you should go based on how you perform, period." I know you don't really believe that. I'm sure in your lifetime you've met at least one racist person. Now imagine that person in charge of the command training. In today's world it can be subtle things such as mentioning only to the white candidates that all answers are from chapter 7. Or it can be over such as holding review sessions Friday afternoon when you know certain people are all in their house of worship.

Me feeling is that the Supreme Court is not going to rule in favor of the city. The city has an obligation by its own laws to as you mentioned to prevent discrimination. There is a clear sign that something in the process was flawed.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: I do agree with you that justice should be blind. Unfortunately, there are way too many people out there who are racist, sexist, religicist, homophobic, and so on. We need to hold people accountable for what then can do, but when a process is unfair and/or discriminatory, we owe it to all people to fix it the process, not just march forward in the name of the appearance of blind justice. What if the city found out that an instructor was passing answers to the exam only to white candidates? Would taking the position you're taking be an example of "blind justice" or an example of "justice being blind"?
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
34 months ago: Justice being blind i would say.

You bring up some good points, all I can say to them is they are speculative and hypothetical at best until we can see the test. Then again, so are my arguments.

I would expect to see the court rule against them, I've read the arguments in other affirmative action cases, and this isn't much different. Then again, I'm a firm believer in precedence, but who knows, like you said, the test could be racist.

Personally, i still stand by my argument, it's hard for me to understand how a test for a bunch of people in the same fire fighter culture could be racist. Maybe the fact is the white guys were just better. I am hesitant to assume racism if a black man doesn't win, or if the flip side is true.

Also, i have been the victim of racism, more than once. It's sad, but the fact is you are right, there are too many shallow-minded people.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
34 months ago: There is also another side to it, maybe we are all slightly different. Which, usually when i bring it up, i get called a racist. But read this:

http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/entry/2178124/

Who knows, we probably never will, but i still think merit is merit, and it should be rewarded, regardless of upbringing, skin-color, sexual preference, etc.
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: I just tried to read the slate article with some modicum of respect, but it was lost by paragraph three.

The simple fact of the matter is that the dominant group will always figure out ways to suppress the minority group. That's the way it is with human beings.

Tests can be biased in subtle or overt ways.

Here's an example of a test I'm going to use to determine if I will hire someone to teach in my school:

1) What do you put groceries into at the store?
part a: (a) cart (b) buggy (c) grocery car (d) truck
part b: (a) bag (b) sack (c) box (d) tin foil

2) What of these was not a capital of Colorado?
(a) Colorado City (b) Leadville (c) Golden City (d) Denver

3) Who is statistically the best NFL quarterback of all time?
(a) Joe Montana (b) John Elway (c) Peyton Manning (d) Joe Namath

4) Which is taller?
(a) Pikes Peak (b) Mt. Elbert

5) What's the highest zoo in the USA?
(a) San Diego (b) Cheyenne Mtn Zoo (c) Denver (d) Milwaukee

6) Which city had, at its peak, had the largest cable car system in the USA?
(a) Chicago (b) Denver (c) New York City (d) San Francisco

_________________________________________________________
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago: Now score your results by adding up the number of (b) answers you selected.

_________________________________________________________
Coloranter Raver
Coloranter Raver
Denver, CO
34 months ago:
Results:
0-3 (b) answers: IQ is subnormal
4-5 (b) answers: IQ is decent but not great
6 (b) answers: IQ is pretty good
7 (b) answers: IQ is awesome, you are hired!

______________________________________________________
So, how did you do? It would be tough for anyone not died in the wool Coloradoan to get a perfect score here, or someone smart enough to figure out the test is biased to Coloradoans and pick those answers. This is the way in which all tests can be biased. Designers make assumptions about what people will pick as answers to a question. They cannot help but be biased in their test design by their own background and assumptions.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
34 months ago: hmm good point!
amishking
amishking
 Moderator
Auburn, NY
33 months ago: I was once kept in limbo waiting to find out if I got a job. It seems the company had to reach quotas before they could hire another white man. So I told them to shove their job and got a better one.

I'm pretty lucky to be able to go out and get another job.

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