I think that it is appalling that free-thinkers like Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald condemn T.D. Jakes for being a prosperity heretic, and then embrace him as a Trinitarian! Seriously? They slam a preacher for distorting the gospel with greed...
"a ponzi scheme" Mark Driscoll puts it, only to welcome Jakes into the flock because he has recanted his "Oneness" position for the doctrine of the Trinity??
I guess I have a few things to say about that...
Here we go,
I haven't changed my position on the Trinity, however I have changed my position on Mark Driscoll. I used to like his arrogant UFC approach to his presentation of the Gospel, and I used to put up with his weak positions on a few teachings... but this is the last straw!
Dude! Mark... you need to read less books and more of your Bible... you need to love others more than yourself... man, you need to appreciate as a gentile your "grafted-in" position... and you need to respect that we are all on a journey and have a lot of growing to do. Knowledge puffs up... love edifies.
"Dude!" (Mark Driscoll's favorite address to others)... I am going to start with you, and if I have some time, I would like to get to some other elephants in your "room". I like that you had some questions for T.D. Jakes... I have a few of my own for you...
1) When are we going to start calling Jesus Christ "The Everlasting Father?""For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)
2) Who was talking in Zechariah 12:10?"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zechariah 12:10)
3) Who purchased what with "His own blood?""Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)
4) Does the context of 1 John 5:7-8 depict 3 Gods, or the composition of the Spirit, water, and blood to understand one person?"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:7-8)
5) Do you believe in 3 distinct Gods...
Father (not the Son); Son (not the Spirit); Spirit (not the Father)... who is Savior?"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:10)
6) "Who dwelt" in Jesus Christ?"Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves." (John 14:9-11)
7) Which God was manifested in the flesh?"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
(1 Timothy 3:16)
8) Who is speaking in the following verse?"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)
9) Is your 'word' a different person than you are?"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:1, 14)
10) Is your spirit a different spirit than you are?"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24)
11) If Jesus is the same 'yesterday' today and forever... how far back is that valid?"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
(Hebrews 13:8)
12) Finally do you teach that Jesus Christ pre-appeared as the "Angel of the Lord", and in doing so, differ little from Jehovah Witnesses over Jesus and Michael? "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
(Hebrews 1:5-7)
So let's start there Mark... I guess I am too "small potatoes" for you to respond... but I will be waiting, with just a Bible if you do. I don't think you have it as "all together" as you come off... but I like you, so I decided to correct you "to your face" as much as that is possible. You see either you have 3 distinct persons; 3 distinct individuals;
3 distinct entities;
3 distinct Gods... or you have ONE!You can semanticize all you want... and you can arrogantly 'bully' people with your amassed fan club... but if you don't humble yourself just a bit, and concede you don't know everything... you may just be the next one Jesus needs to
"Smack-Down"(your words). IF you think you have a 'corner' on GOD ...think again.
Now, Brother Jakes... I really love you! Recently a man new to our group (all tatty'd up) gave his life to Jesus and was baptized. I was present when this 30-something man prayed, for what probably was the 5th time in his life! Months ago we all encouraged the new guys to bring something about "God" ...something that spoke to them, and something that drew them to Jesus (this was before he knew Christ)...
he brought one of your DVDs... and brother, we all REPENTED!T.D. I think if you want to 'reform' anything it's not your position on Christ...
but it may be on wealth, as the Apostle Paul told Timothy... "Warn the rich!"
God has gifted you and called you with an anointing, and
"His gifts and callings are without repentance"
...continue to use them for His Glory!
I wrote this not to slam the "other side" ...rather for us to examine our own humble perception in light of Scripture to the glory of God the Father.
UPDATE - 3 months ago
I think that the idea of the "Elephant Room" is a good thing as long as it doesn't end up being an 'inquisition' and a tool to divide those of like faith.
"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part." (Mark 9:38-40)
Some from the Southern Baptist Convention are very heavy on the "3 distinct persons" view, yet their Statement of Faith is clearer...
"There is one and only one living and true God. He is an intelligent, spiritual, and personal Being, the Creator, Redeemer, Preserver, and Ruler of the universe. God is infinite in holiness and all other perfections. God is all powerful and all knowing; and His perfect knowledge extends to all things, past, present, and future, including the future decisions of His free creatures. To Him we owe the highest love, reverence, and obedience. The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being."
http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#ii "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." (Hebrews 10:24-25)