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Don't be Amateur Physics Guy

Posted 30 months ago|18 comments|1,041 views
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A little while ago, I heard a radio program about a guy who was convinced he'd discovered a major flaw in physics theory. A mind-blowing, change-the-world sort of flaw. He thought he'd discovered a miscalculation by Albert Einstein. Energy equals mass times the speed of light, he concluded. Not the square of the speed of light.

He had a devil of a time trying to get anyone in professional academia to review his work - most of them just dismissed him as a crackpot. After all, E=MC² is fundamental to the calculations used in things like atomic bombs. If it was wrong, nuclear explosions would be impossible.

He finally managed to get a physicist to sit down with him, go over his work, and talk about where he'd made mistakes. But there was a problem... This guy would not accept that he'd actually made any. He thought he had reached the right answer, and when the physicist explained that he hadn't, instead of trying to learn to correct his mistakes, he just accused the physicist of being afraid of the "truth" and afraid of what it would mean. In his mind, the academic rejection of his work had become a conspiracy.

He couldn't accept that he was, quite simply, wrong. He hadn't done his research, he had made miscalculations, and wouldn't listen to the one guy who knew enough and was willing to explain it.

Today, in regards to at least one section of the proposed health care bill, I feel like the physicist. I've read Section 1233 in its entirety, and I've read the part of the Social Security Act it would amend. Simply put, it does not establish mandatory end-of-life counseling. It doesn't establish mandatory anything. The section of the Social Security Act it amends is just a list of definitions for services that Medicare will pay for. That's it. All Section 1233 of the health care bill would do is add end-of-life counseling to the list.

Unless you're immortal, you will need end-of-life counseling from your doctor some day. Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to worry about paying your doctor at the same time? That's the coverage that Section 1233 adds. The fact-checkers at all the news services - even Fox News - agree on this. There is nothing mandatory whatsoever.

But because the bill is in legalese, because it requires familiarity with the existing law it's amending, and - to be blunt - because reading it is hard, misreading it is easy. Frankly, it's easier, because all you have to do to misread it is fail to read Section 1861 of the Social Security Act. Skip that, and you lose all context. The language inside 1233 becomes devoid of defining parameters such as why these end-of-life counseling sessions are being described at all, and in the absence of knowledge, ignorance is happy to provide a very paranoid answer. End result: Health care forums disrupted by people who are worried grandma will be pressured into committing suicide by her doctor.

Then there is the Health Benefits Advisory Panel, described in Section 123. This establishes a panel of experts to provide recommendations regarding benefits packages. That's it. That's the so-called "Death Panel." Current health insurance companies have similar panels to make the same determinations, the main difference being that health insurance companies also have to ensure that their insurance packages make them a profit. In other words, you have privately owned death panels right now. I don't know about you, but I haven't heard anything about shadowy secret cabals at Blue Cross Blue Shield demanding that babies with health problems be put to death.

When I hear about death panels and mandatory euthanasia counseling, I think of Amateur Physicist Guy (APG). He thinks he's onto something, and doesn't want to hear that he's wrong. He knows about the conspiracy, and he's going to Do Something about it. And if you point out to APG that if he's right, atomic bombs don't work? It doesn't matter. In APG's mind, he's still right.

In this case, APG believes Democrats literally want to kill old people and babies. He will not read the bill to see if it actually says that, because it's too complicated - but also because he's already certain of the truth. Point out that coverage for end-of-life counseling is already available for terminally ill patients under the 2003 Medicare expansion, it doesn't matter. Point out that all the current bill does is expand that availability to people who aren't terminally ill yet, it doesn't matter. Even point out that this wasn't "euthanasia" when the Republican-controlled Congress voted for it in 2003, it still doesn't matter. As far as APG is concerned, the conspiracy is the only real truth.

I guess in the end, I'm asking people not to be Amateur Physicist Guy. I know it's hard, but if you're concerned about a section of the legislation, read it. If it is hard to understand, read it slowly and carefully. If it amends another law, read the part of that law it amends.

Knowledge is power.
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30 months ago: And for the record, Amateur Physicist Guy exists on the left, too. Just try explaining to a 9/11 truther that cellphones can in fact work fine on an airplane in flight. Yeesh...
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: I won't be needing end of life counseling. I am having all the plugs super-glued into the sockets.

I think this should be a "teaching experience" for the legislators in Washington who think they can just just ram any old piece of legislation down our throats. We don't need to tear the system apart to fix it.

Just as the left has their astroturf organizations and corporations trying to front as a grassroots campaign in favor of insurance reform, the conservatives have shown they can get out and get mobile, and if you have to get down and dirty to fight, well, we fight fire with fire.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: Don't get me wrong, there are somethings that need to be addressed in the current system. That does not mean we need to restructure the entire thing.
We will start a forum of all interested parties, figure out where the bottlenecks are, and fix them one at a time.
If this bill passes, I guarantee the left's short power trip will be even shorter, and the conservatives will take office even stronger than before, and hr3200 will be rescinded.
30 months ago: "I won't be needing end of life counseling. I am having all the plugs super-glued into the sockets."

And that, finally, tells me what I needed to know, and have been lacking.

Yes, you'll probably need end-of-life counseling. Most people do, unless they die in an accident or suffer a very quick and catastrophic loss of mental function. If you still have all your mental faculties when you know you'll be dying soon, you'll want to sort out things like a living will and power of attorney, just to make sure there's no possible misunderstanding of your wishes.

But even if you don't, what could you possibly have against ensuring that people who want to have that conversation are covered? Because that's what that section of the bill is about. If you don't like it, fine, but attack it for what it is, not for what it's not.

(To be continued...)
30 months ago:
On to your other comments...

This does appear to be a "teaching moment," but I doubt it's the lesson you want. Approval for Republicans is currently practically nil, and has been steadily dropping since the screamers started disrupting town halls: http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm.

For comparison's sake, the Dems aren't doing great, either, but they're not the ones with approvals hovering near the teens: http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm.

My reading - and I freely admit I could be wrong, this is just my opinion - is that the American public loathes the Republicans, and wants the Democrats to grow some freaking spines. They have a 60-ish seat majority (Lieberman and such notwithstanding), and ought to dispense with bipartisanship. I figure at this point, with a majority still in favor of single-payer, the American people have basically decided that compromise between the right way and the wrong way is just another wrong way. Like I said, just my opinion, and only time will tell whether or not my reading of the polls is accurate.

Just curious, which astroturfing are your referring to? Astroturfing is when you pretend to be an ordinary "concerned citizen" when you're actually being paid or sponsored. The Democrats showing up in force at these town halls aren't trying to disguise that they're from the SEIU and such. Heck, they've been announcing it proudly.

So... Why haven't conservatives been announcing proudly the names of the insurance companies they're showing up for?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: One thing at a time.

No, I won't be needing end of life counseling, as I would never entrust something as personal as my dieing to some one else. All my wishes and necessary arrangements have been made "official" and well known to all of my close friends and relatives.

next: Truth in advertising. The left has been lying about almost everything to do with this bill. 47 million uninsured, deficit neutral, keep your private insurance if you like it, and the statements that the only reason anyone is against is because they are pawns of big insurance. The 47 million number has been soundly debunked, the CBO, congress' own budget people, state the bill brings a 230 billion deficit, the bill has built in methods to force people into the system, and speaking only for myself, I was against it before it was written. When even a layman like myself can spot these obvious lies, how many more are hidden? If we have to stretch the truth a little bit to combat the left's outright lies, oh well.

next....
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: I don't have any problem ensuring others can get counseling on end of life issues, if they want it. I feel there should also be a safeguard in place to protect them from being pressured or tricked into making decisions based on advice from the very people whose job it is to pay for their very, very, very expensive final care.

next:...
I'm not a Republican, so I really don't care. I don't see things in Democrat and Republican vision. To me, it's right and wrong. Congress' , as a whole, approval rating has never been lower than it has been in the last year.

The issue here is not that the Democrat holdouts need to grow a spine, they are exhibiting muey moxy, in my opinion, bucking the powerful in their party the way they are. It would be a lot easier to just go with the democrat flow, but they are upholding the oath they swore to be true to their constituents. Some Democrats still think the peope can and should decide for themselves, not have an elite ruling class tell them how it's going to be.

next....
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: Call it what you want, but the group known as Americans for
Stable Quality Care, which includes the SEIU, American Medical Association (AMA), PhRMA, the Federation of American Hospitals and FamiliesUSA has come out of the closet, after realizing it impossible to fight a covert war any longer.
They launched their big "debunking campaign" today.

So big pharmaceutical, big medicine, and big labor are spending hundreds of millions to promote healthcare reform. Why do you suppose this is? Why do you suppose that all of the negotiations Obama promised would telecast live on C-SPAN are being held behind closed doors?


And lastly, I can't speak for everyone, but the only thing that myself and the other thousand or so people I have spoken face to face with about health care reform is the taking of our freedom of choice, and the continuous digging of our country into bankruptcy.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: Thanks, Seimpre, I think I will.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: SEIU's site directs you to the politico page


PhRMA’s participation is key, because the group has promised to kick in as much as $150 million for advertising and "grass-roots" activity to help pass the president’s plan.

(Here is where they tell on themselves):


The official provides a little more back story: “These groups were part of a looser coalition that started back in January that focused on the links between health reform and the economy. Now that the debate is turning on what health reform means for the individual, they felt the need to launch a new front that addresses some of those particulars while debunking some of the myths that are floating around. Plus, these groups recognize that their collective voice packs more punch than if they were to just speak out individually.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26076.html#ixzz0OEYr8ZcR

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26076.html#ixzz0OEXvvTVT

So who are you working for?
30 months ago: Your entire life is "end of life counseling".

And it's not the dang government's business.

For crying out loud.
30 months ago: @Siempre Solo

Exactly. Right now, the media loves to tout how his approval rating has dropped and spin the idea of a public insurance option as unpopular, even as his approvals have started creeping up again, and even though right now, his approvals line up with his election numbers.

Republicans have every right to criticize the idea and change the public's minds on what was indeed a campaign promise. But as long as they criticize straw men - death panels and euthanasia - instead of what's in the bill, they're fighting a losing battle. Right now, approval of Obama is down to a "lowly" 55%-60%. Republicans in Congr
30 months ago: Whoops... That's supposed to be "Republicans in Congress have approval ratings hovering near the teens."
30 months ago: Dude. You are comparing politics and law to Physics? That's like comparing to worlds greatest architect to Salvador Dali.

The law might "imply" voluntary right now just like you are convincingly arguing. But someone else could argue the other way in 20 years when the US population is just too big to manage.

China manages their population. Is it inconceivable to think that someday the United States may attempt it as well?

The State of Oregon already offers it's terminally ill patients doctor assisted suicide because it is cheaper than paying for the drugs to keep them alive a little longer. Why wouldn't the federal government adopt that policy down the road?

At any rate I believe there has been some back room agreement to strike section 1233 from the bill. So we are safe for now.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
30 months ago: SS, the naysayers WERE naysaying back then. Where were you?

Noni, I guess you were through with me.

Hershaw, thanks for a voice of reason. The ones who are so desperate for social reform refuse to admit that opening the door to government tyranny could result in changes that are not evident. They blindly accept what their government tells them, and would trust their children's future to an uncertainty. The only certainty that can be demonstrated is that the unthinkable has happened before.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
30 months ago: I think it is sad that this provision's Republican supporters have backed off and the bill has been scrapped because of the hysteria. In 2003 essentially the same bill was voted for with 204 Republican House and 42 Senate votes when they supported the Medicare Drug Bill. The only difference this time, is that it would have been extended to everyone, not just the terminally ill. That way you make logical choices before I am glad that OOTB has apparently already made a living will and made his wishes known. That is all this provision would have done is encourage people to make their wishes known, and let them know what the options are, so there won't be so many Terry Shiavo controversies. It would have been completely voluntary.
Knowledge is indeed power. The Taliban objects to the education of girls for the same reason that Republicans object to end of life counseling. People might make intelligent decisions if they are educated.

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