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Rant

Deer Hunting With Jesus.

Posted 17 months ago|59 comments|1,112 views
Written by
Paper Tiger
England
This is the most interesting book I've read in a while.

I suppose it would almost have to be that way, considering the subject. The subject is not really about deer hunting, I saw it as a cultural class war. The fact that men with big rifles do not understand why others dissagree with their behaviour.

It is about a class of Americans to whom deer hunting is an enjoyable passtime and cannot understand anyone who found it a strange concept, as an alien person, not "from around here". It's about the poor white working class their culture and values.

Is killing animals for fun only for the middle class? Or are people hunters because they want to appear middle class.

Is wandering around the woods and countryside killing for fun the right thing to do?

In some cultures, it could be the sign of a potential serial killer.

Could somebody in the US clear this up for me?

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COMMENTS
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...In some cultures, it could be the sign of a potential serial killer...
...Could somebody in the US clear this up for me?...

If you actually live in the UK and are semi-aware, you know there is hunting in the UK. As such, you don't need to ask somebody in the US - just call your local hunters, and here's just one UK hunting website with a phone number listed.

http://www.huntinguk.com/

Let us know what they tell you and whether or not it's contributed to the serial killing that's happened in the UK.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: I England we stopped the fox hunting as it was cruel. My joy was to see the frustration of the middle classes being told by the masses, that killing for fun, and rubbing the blood onto new comers stopped.

Many times I have seen American holiday snaps, of a moose dead on the floor with the gallant hunter with his foot on its neck.

Look closer at these holiday snaps, you will probably notice the rifle has sishts on it. That allows the gallant hunter to lay in the grass a mile away and shoot the moose while it eats its grass minding its own business.

You will see the killers uniform, a plaid jacket, a silly hat and a waistcoat to carry the gallant hunters ammo. The big boots so that he looks awsome in the holiday pics. So woman can admire what a great warrior he is. Single handedly brought down a moose, living the dream revelling in his own fantasticness. I can sum this up in one word.

Coward
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: You are woefully ignorant of your own laws - hunting foxes is not banned in your country. What's banned is the use of dogs in hunting and more precisely, the number of dogs used. I think the problem is your tired of your dour little Isle and you'rve become obsessed with the United States - you know more about it than you do your own country, and you're also focusing on our problems to forget about the nightmares at home.

You also avoided commenting on Gregoire's illuminating post.

...But I do know that unless one is a vegetarian who only wears hemp shoes and belts, one had better be very careful about finding anything suspect about it...

Comment to that please.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: But enough of that lets get back to the origional rant.

Deer Hunting with Jesus; the American Class Wars.

Having spent thirty years creating a middle class life out of a "dirt-poor" childhood, Joe Bageant moved back to his hometown of Winchester.

He realized that his family and neighbors were the very people who voted for George W. Bush and put him into office.

Two in five of the people in his old neighborhood do not have high school diplomas or any credible indentures for education.

Nearly everyone over fifty has serious health problems, and many have no health care as they find it hard to afford.

Their lifestyles do not allow change. If the "dirt poor" tried to change by having health insurance or other buffers to fall back on they would have to reduce the amount on booze, cigarettes and eating more s**t than the are now.

Credit ratings are low or nonexistent, and alcohol, overeating, and Jesus are the preferred avenues of escape.

He tells of his childhood friends who work at factory jobs that are constantly on the verge of being shut down. He sees the mortgage and credit card rackets that burden the working poor with debt.

His hometown of Winchester, Virginia, a town that looks a lot like a lot of other small towns dotted across this US.

The town, like so many others, has a permanent under class caught in the cycle of poverty, like hamsters trapped in a wheel, unable to get out.

Bageant explains this world in a way that makes sense. It shows how hardworking, underpaid people can walk into the voting booth and vote against their own best interests.

One of the more amazing things that Bageant manages to do is paint Lindy England in a sympathetic light.

No, she still isn't completely absolved for her role in the events at Abu Ghraib, but how she got there is far clearer.

Is America a classless society?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ..But enough of that lets get back to the origional rant...

Yes, of course - you want to get back to your sugar glass house and throw out the anecdotal stones. If you're wanting to ask about classless societies, why don't you ask about your own. Perhaps you should ask your Queen (while properly bowing to her royalist magnificence) or could you read this article from the Guardian, titled, "No such thing as a classless society; Class still has a pervasive influence over British people's sense of identity"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/o...
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Reply-woefully ignorant

Fox hunting to destroy the fox by dogs ripping them apart for fun is against the law. It would not be against your laws as hunting is your right, the constitusion says so.

But put yourself in mooses shoes, one morning you get up from a long sleep and feel abit hungry.

You pop down the road to buy a burger or two and a sharpshooter shoots you in the head from a high building a mile away. Thats not good.

But the sharpshooter does not leave it there he walk over puts his foot on your neck ask asks a passer by to take his picture.

He then takes the picture to show his woman, as he sees her as a chattle, and she will love him more because he does man things.

What is the difference between you and the moose? Is it because you percieve yourself as a higher being that you have the right to take the mooses life for fun?

And that is true, but you will deny that.

So now we have a situation, in your world anything that you think is not on your level is fair game.

You have the right to shoot the moose as its only a moose.

So the next logical step in your world would be to exercise your rights.

That man over there is bald, honey fetch my gun.

Hey the guy up the road has only got one leg, Honey, "pass your man his gun"

Honey did you notice the guy in the bakers today? What part of the world do you think he comes from? "Load my weapon honey and watch how I handle it.

Hey honey I saw a man older than me today.

Hey honey there was this short guy visiting next door.

Honey that man over there reckons his god is better than ours.

These little niggles about me not being English is worrying you. But fear not I am English and I will still be friends with you if you disagree with my point of view.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Again, you're just full of fallacies and misconceptions The red fox is protected in every state (excepting Hawaii), in contrast to its status as vermin in the UK. Maybe you just need to actually study up instead of watching the latest American docu-drama to get your info.

...I will still be friends with you if you disagree with my point of view...

That's the way it works in Rant Rave - we can passionately disagree and foam at the mouth, but at the end of the day, it's one happy band of fellow inmates in the asylum.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Hey I never wrote the book, I just read it.

But what I found ironic when reading it that your sub-class citizens voted for policies that did not include them in fact the policies wanted to destroy them.

It is like a candidate is saying vote for me and I will kick you in the b**ls and the nation saying where do I sign.

As for the Queen you could not afford such a drain on resources. Do you think we are happy struggling to pay bills while a large part of our taxes go towards the upkeep of her and her hangers on so they can parade fabulous riches while we work to keep them.

I may be English and not a good speller but I am not stupid.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: Also, you might want to understand that our individual states our actually more of a country than England, which you like to think of as a country but is really in fact a province of the UK, and of course the UK is well on the path to becoming a province of the EU.

Now those on the political right in the USA (now thought of as Teabaggers) will cry crocodile tears about the federal government overriding the rights of individual states but in fact, the states have considerable powers to make and enforce their own laws.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Reply-The Red Fox

You know what Mark, I am begining to like you.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Re-province of the UK

Hi Mark you need to add another book to your library, the one you have now is out of date, well thumbed and has pages missing.

The British Isles are divided between two countries which are independent states in international law, namely 1) the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (so called since 1927) and 2) the Republic of Ireland.

Unlike the states of the USA or Germany, or the provinces of Canada, the constituent parts of the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) do not have legislatures with their own areas of exclusive jurisdiction, and England has no legislature at all.

It is not possible to have a federation without a constitution prescribing the powers of the different levels of government, and the UK has no such instrument.

The primary principle of our constitutional law is that the UK Parliament can do anything.

The legislation which created the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies carefully reserved power to the UK Parliament to legislate in all matters.

The powers of the subordinate legislatures are devolved powers. So the UK is not a federation; it is a unitary state.

England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland have all been regarded for centuries as nations, and are still correctly referred to as such.

This has nothing to do with legal status. England, Scotland and Ireland all were once Kingdoms, but no longer are (since 1707 in the case of England and Scotland, 1800 in the case of Ireland).

Wales was not a Kingdom but a Principality, and is sometimes still referred to as such.

Would you like me to recommend a book for you?

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago:

Deer Hunting with Jesus; the American Class Wars.

Hi Huey

This rant has got a piece about education.

Any comments?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
Content Removed by Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago:
Re-Class still has a pervasive influence.

The gun control issue is but one of many points dividing the U.S. working class, making its members easier to rule.

The elephant standing in the room is the issue of work-time.

Too many hours sold to the bosses makes it difficult for small town wage-slaves to do much in the way of educating themselves.

Reading or expanding views of the world beyond the easily accessed which are instant:

Canned gratification available from conservative Republican corporate AM radio pundits.

The workers of Bageant's home town are literally being worked to death at jobs which market for low wages.

The same can be said for their socially conservative cultural traditions concerning:

Race relations, the possession of firearms, Big Gov'mint, namby-pamby intellectuals and warlike nationalism.

Across that great bellwether, the great crack in the working class remains unrepaired as left liberal workers sit and sit and sit.

Desdaining contact with their 'benighted' fellow citizens thus, leaving both sides ignorant of what the other is saying or doing.

According to Bageant, this is a recipe for continued impotent expressions of working class power, while serving to maintain a ruling class status-quo which is on track to continue cutting U.S. workers' living standards and furthering the commodification of human values and humane relations.

Hmmmmmm I am confused!
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...So the UK is not a federation; it is a unitary state...

Indeed, and England is but a subnational unit; any power it has is delegated or devolved from the Central Government, and of course those powers can be abrogated at the whim of Parliament. Contrast that to any US state which are unitary states and the federal government has powers as delegrated by the states. Again, any given US state has considerably more sovereign powers than one the UK's provinces, err subnational units, err countries.

In all practicality, England is about as real a country as Elizabeth Alexandra Mary is a real Queen - mere historical and symbolic anachronisms that allow you to field separate football teams and bring in the dewy-eyed tourists to breathlessly marvel at Buckingham Palace while the silver spooned royalists wax eloquently about philanthropic causes.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Reply to: So the UK is not a federation; it is a unitary state.

England is a Nation in its own right. You are desperaly trying to dispute this fact.
Are you a little in awe of our tiny Nation? You can tell me, I won't let the cat out of the bag, it will be our secret.

As for tourism we have lots of history besides the royal family. You should look it up sometime, as you have a special interest in your Mother Country.

I have got things in my freezer older than some of your historic icons
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...I have got things in my freezer older than some of your historic icons...

I'm almost afraid to ask what you got in your freezer - the cremated remains of King George III perhaps?
17 months ago: Hi PT,

I like your post and I'm glad you are sticking around.

I've never been much of a hunter. Did some when I was a youth.

Personally I don't have a major problem with it as long as folk are not creating and going after endangered species or messing up the food chain or echo system.

Thanks for asking.

Also, I really like the Avatar.
17 months ago: No one can answer for anyone but themselves.
Some men may indeed have a blood lust and enjoy extinguishing a life.
Some men may understand that there is something perhaps unwholesome about letting another man do "his dirty work" by smashing the mallet or slitting the chicken's throat. He may opt to participate in the dance of life as a reminder that the steaks he enjoys come at a cost.
He may see the crazy departure and distance from reality afforded by display cases filled with shiny plastic wrapped meat, as though it is a manufactured item, and not something born in blood and breath as himself.
I know that each of us always tries to support a position by ascribing some moral superiority to it. I don't know why all men hunt.
But I do know that unless one is a vegetarian who only wears hemp shoes and belts, one had better be very careful about finding anything suspect about it.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: Hunting for sport to me is cruel.

If the 3rd world war came and/or the US Corporations Vs the American nationals civil war came, hunting for food would be for survival.

An innocent animal has a right to live, just as much as an innocent person has.

But a wild animal behind my house out to kill my family or a communist out to destroy the recovery of our original constitutional rights has very little rights to keep on living, unless he goes away.

Life is sacred to us all. But some lives are not, and must be taken for the safety of all.

A Bleeding heart liberal is here to protect the rapist that had fun with your sister.

To me his life is forfeit, because of whaT HE LIVES FOR:


Anti-Self Defense, Anti-Second Amendment, Anti-Constitution, Anti-Real Constitutional History, Anti-Family Values, Anti-Business, Pro-Big Government,

Pro-New World Order, Pro-Criminals, Anti-Natural Nutrients, Pro-Excessive Taxation, Pro-Excessive Federal Regulations,

Pro-Abortion Or Anti-Life, Anti-Real Causes Of Illnesses And Pro-Symptom Cures, Anti-Natural Doctors And Pro-Symptom Doctors,

Anti-God, Anti-Religion, Pro-Godless Cults, Anti-Patriotism, Pro-Corruption, and Pro-Immorality, Pro-Perversion, Pro-Bestiality, Etc., And Etc..

QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR HUMAN BEINGS TO ANSWER.

The Commie Bleeding Heart Liberal is the child molesters and rapists best friend and protector.

The conservative American is the child molesters and rapists worst enemy.

To protect your women and children, who would you vote for?

Who would you believe, trust and support?

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...An innocent animal has a right to live, just as much as an innocent person has...

Ronbot, I didn't know you were a vegan. Either that or you're a hypocrite; which is is? And I guess you're now carrying the mantle for Siempere Solo as the resident anthropomorphist.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Hi Ronbotman here is your bill of rights

Magna Carta

Rega The Founding Fathers found the Magna Carta an inspiring source.

In 1215, a group of English nobles, demanded certain rights and forced the King to sign the Magna Carta or the Great Charter.

500 hundred years later the American colonists were to use this example to demand their rights from the British King.

These rights included: The right of jury trial, protection of private property, limits on taxation, and some religious freedoms.

Note that these rights were intended to be enjoyed by the rich; it didn't apply to the people. These rights above became a part of our Bill Of Rights and apply to all.


English Bill of Rights


It's long name was An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown.

In 1688, William and Mary became the new King and Queen of England through a peaceful revolution known as the Glorious Revolution.

To prevent further abuse by the monarchy, Parliament forced them to sign the English Bill of Rights.

The Bill then guaranteed certain basic rights to prevent abuses including the following:

Freedom from royal interference with the law.

Though the sovereign remains the fount of justice, he or she cannot unilaterally establish new courts or act as a judge.

Freedom from taxation by Royal Prerogative.

The agreement of parliament became necessary for the implementation of any new taxes. Freedom to petition the monarch.

Freedom from the standing army during a time of peace.

The agreement of parliament became necessary before the army could be moved against the populace when not at war.

Freedom for Protestants to bear arms for their own defence, as suitable to their class and as allowed by law.

Freedom to elect members of parliament without interference from the sovereign.

Freedom of speech and debates; or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament.

Note that the Bill of Rights began by listing the grievances of the nobles against the King.

Similarly, the American colonists began the Declaration of Independence by listing their grievances against King George.

It was a predecessor of the United States Bill of Rights,.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights.

For example, as with the Bill of Rights, the US constitution requires jury trials and prohibits excessive bail and "cruel and unusual punishments."

Another point is the English Bill of Rights was Blackstone's Commentaries on the Law.

Blackstone's law book was the the main textbook for law schools in America.
until 1920 when Jefferson incorporated it's reasoning into the Declaration of Independence.

Which is the preamble to the Constitution.

Our rights are given by God and this religious view drove the American revolution.

Mayflower Compact


One of the early steps toward democracy in America was taken aboard the Mayflower by the Pilgrims in 1620.

Shortly before their arrival, the colonists agreed on a set of laws that would govern their Plymouth colony in Massachusetts.

These laws, which came to be known as the Mayflower Compact.

In essence, it stated that the government would make "just laws and equal" with the consent of the colonists.

The Mayflower Compact was the first governing document of Plymouth Colony.

It was written by the colonists, later together known to history as the Pilgrims, who crossed the Atlantic aboard the Mayflower.

Almost half of the colonists were part of a separatist group seeking the freedom to practice Christianity according to their own determination and not the will of the English Church.

It was sig
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: American Constitution continued.

I just began to wave the British flag and send the picture to you colonists but I ran out of space.

Continued from Hi ronbotman here is your Bill of Rights

Almost half of the colonists were part of a separatist group seeking the freedom to practice Christianity according to their own determination and not the will of the English Church. It was signed on November 11, 1620.

John Locke

No other individual influenced the author of the Declaration of Independence more than Unitarian John Locke (1632-1704).

He was a British philosopher who rejected the idea that Kings had a divine right to rule. Instead, Locke argued that people are the source of power, not kings.

Locke argued that people are born with certain "natural" or "inalienable" rights.

These include the right to "life, liberty and property."

Government did not give people these rights; rather they are born with them and as such, no government can take them away.

According to Locke, people formed governments to protect their rights, which he called a "social contract."

People agreed to obey the government and in return, government had the responsibility to protect peoples' natural rights.

Locke also argued that if the government failed to protect our natural rights, then the people had the right to replace the government.

Locke's ideas became very influential in developing democratic ideas.

Thomas Jefferson, in writing the Declaration of Independence, drew heavily from the writings of John Locke.

Mark that is how I know so much of your Bill of Rights. My history is your history.

Read it and weep.

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
Content Removed by Paper Tiger
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: I am mostly a 95% vegetarian and I am also practicing the PH diet to keep my PH above 12.

What's the matter? Are you worried that if a civil war comes, you will be targeted by some country boy?

Communists are going to be the meat of the day.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR HUMAN BEINGS TO ANSWER.

The Commie Bleeding Heart Liberal is the child molesters and rapists best friend and protector.

The conservative American is the child molesters and rapists worst enemy.

To protect your women and children, who would you vote for?

Who would you believe, trust and support?

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Hey ronbotman

How can you be 95% vegitarian, its like being a little bit pregnant.
17 months ago: keep your PH above 12? dude, you're a miracle.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: That's some seriously caustic blood. Don't get it on the paint job, please.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: Out Of The Box said;

That's some seriously caustic blood.

This shows your ignorance of health.

Over acidity is caustic.

A high PH to displace over acidity is used to recover from illnesses.

Learn about these things or your ignorance about health will do you harm.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR HUMAN BEINGS TO ANSWER.

The Commie Bleeding Heart Liberal is the child molesters and rapists best friend and protector.

The conservative American is the child molesters and rapists worst enemy.

To protect your women and children, who would you vote for?

Who would you believe, trust and support?

Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: The RBH,

No offense taken. There is still time for you to do some research, and remove the above comment before too many people see it. It only takes one misconceived statement like that for many people to discard everything you are trying to convey.

Consider the fact that the pH scale goes from around 0 to around 14, and a base with a pH of 12 is considered a strong base, able to destroy human tissue on contact. NaOH, the primary ingredient in Draino has a pH of around 12 to 13.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: pH Scale.........pH values of some common substances

14.0
13.5.........household lye
12.6.........bleach
12.0
11.5.........ammonia
11.0
10.2.........milk of magnesia
10.0
9.3...........borax
9.0
8.4...........baking soda
8.0...........sea water
7.4...........blood
7.0...........distilled water
6.7...........milk
6.2...........corn
6.0
5.0...........boric acid
4.2...........orange juice
4.0
3.0
2.8..........vinegar
2.2..........lemon juice
2.0
1.0
0.3..........battery acid
0.0

P.S. Don't be such a jerk all the time.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: That pH scale is highly informative and we can now diagnose a diet induced case of frontal lobe dementia as the brain is being bathed in bleach and household lye. It most likely accounts for the statement, "i am mostly a 95% vegetarian" and along with the hundreds of other bizarre, stupefying, and befuddling remarks I've read in the past year, I think you've nailed down another mystery.
17 months ago: Skipping over all the politics and types of government…….

You asked about deer hunting and tied it to class. As if only middle-class men do all the hunting in this country.

First, not just the middle-class hunt. The rich do it more for sport and the poor do it to eat and for fun. But NOT the kind of fun you are talking about, that is just slaughtering the game for no point except to kill.

Many poor hunt to put meat on the table. The cost of an all vegan diet would be prohibitive for anyone that didn't own enough land to grow their own so they get extra protein from the meat, be it deer, fish, squirrel, rabbit or moose.

The middle-class may or may not need to hunt to put meat on the table, they can just afford to do it in better style.

The rich can just hire someone to help them point their guns in the right direction and then stand with their foot on the carcass of whatever they may or may not have shot.

No killing animals for fun is not just for the middle-class, all classes can have fun killing animals, just that the rich can afford to kill bigger and rarer ones than the poor.

No one, to my knowledge, would go to the expense of purchasing a weapon, clothing, and other supplies to go hunting with, just to "appear" to be middle-class. That's pretty stupid, right up there with buying expensive clothes to put on airs with when you can't put food on the table. Besides that, if someone went to the trouble to do that, who would see them? Other poor but well dressed hunters? Not like you can hunt deer in the middle of New York City.

Considering that citizens of the UK used to hunt just as citizens of the rest of the world, some even getting caught hunting on the kings land, you are pretty arrogant pointing a finger at the US. Guess maybe our grain and other food stuffs are keeping you pretty well fed…..

Actually "wandering" around the woods while trying to hunt deer would be the wrong thing to do. You really need to get to your deer stand as quickly as possible or they will run away faster than you can ever hope to. As for "killing for fun", do you mean just shoot it and watch it die and leave it there to rot or do you mean have fun hunting and killing for the meat and trophy? If you get caught wasting the meat in this state, you go to jail. It's not just for killing, it's to harvest the meat.

In most cultures, killing to eat is considered an honorable way to survive.

Now about your description of the attire and the weapon that you came later in your post.

The coat is to keep you warm and carry your supplies. The boots keep your feet dry and warm so you can walk in and out without having to call in a rescue unit. The gun has sights on it so you can hit what you shoot at without just wounding it and causing it more pain than necessary, or would you rather they bludgeoned it to death like they do rabbits in the UK?

Since you've obviously never hunted anything more than an Oreo in the supermarket, you have no idea the skill required to bag a trophy moose or white tail buck. Sure a hunter can get the sick and injured, the old and the young ones without too much work, but to bag a real trophy requires some work, or lots of cash.

Now you can go back to picking apart our respective governments.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Good morning six.

The "dirt poor" class in the USA are divided out guns laws and hunting. By having this divide the middle class can use their reasons for justifying killing, thus having fun blood on their hands at the and using under educated values to support blood lust.

As for killing for food, its an extension of excuses for killing for fun. Don't tell me that someone who has a very well paid job in the week needs to go hunting at weekends, to their shack in the woods, fire off a few rounds at helpless living things, drag the carcasses back to the shack freezer, cut off its head and mount it on his shack wall. Is essential for suvival?

As foor the, dirt poor, hunting to put food on the table, I am ranting about a "sport" that the dirt poor could not afford or have the means, or the time to revel in the joy of killing.

Lets look at your poor and their need to hunt to survive.

So the poor have a top make rifle, an expensive uniform, sensible boots, a shack in the woods, and the time to wander about in the wilderness to kill things.

Your remark about the deer running off, should they stand there, maybe they think that having their head as a trophy on the wall is the way foreward?

Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Reply: Since you've obviously never hunted anything more than an Oreo

Hi six

I am proud not to have hunted and killed a living thing. I am proud not to have the skill to "bag" a "trophy" moose or white tail buck.

Good Lord my fellow human being, a moose with a bullet in its head does not care what level of skill or cost it took to put it there. Killing for fun is wrong, in my spare time I would rather sit in my garden on a sunny day talking to my nieghbours, enjoying the wildlife that have the right to peck my apples, pears and delight my grand children.

There is nothing more pleasurable than to watch wild life, putting out bread for the birds, feeding ducks by hand.

There is a duck that visits me every day it only has one eye. I have feed this wild creature by hand for many years and it has become part of my family. In the winter many ducks come around for some food and I feed them all. The one eyed duck, which I and my wife and family call blindey. The other ducks peck Blindey as they see him as an invalid.

So we go and stand next to Blindey and feed him by hand so the other ducks cannot steal his food.

Sometimes in the winter I sit on my back porch and Old Blindey waddles up the path and quacks hallo. If it is really cold Blindey will stand on my foot for warmth.

We have stepped in on nature to look after this little duck because it makes me feel good. Blindey is still wild but he has a personalty that is very endearing.

Tell me six, if Blindey walked up your path, would you kill him for fun? Or for food or find another excuse to take his life. If I killed blindey no matter how hungry I was I could not eat him. My wife, my children, my grandchildren, my nieghbours, my friends and myself would be disgusted at my behaviour.

So six, because you don't know the animal you kill it, and thats OK. Would it not be better if you sat on the porch of your little old shack and watched Gods creations and enjoyed understanding the animals.
17 months ago: I do not kill for fun.

Varmints are killed because they are destroying or consuming something not intended for them. Game is killed for the meat. If a trophy is desired, the head or antlers are taken and mounted while the rest of the carcass is processed for what can be used by humans or as dog food.

How nice, you protect the weaker duck, the one that would have to work to survive in the wild. You're probably not doing that one any favors since the way of nature is survival of the fittest. Maybe that is where you are losing your grasp on reality, treating lunch like a pet.

Tell me. Do you treat all living things with the same regard or just the cute ones?

Be careful with your answer. You might show just how little regard you have for the lives of creatures we share this ball of rock with.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: RE-You're probably not doing that one any favors since the way of nature is survival of the fittest.

Are you telling me that suvival in nature is only the suvival of the fittest? You think you understand nature? Well you do not. Nature is not a black and white subect, I as well as you, are part of nature. Nature does not only allow survival of the fittest it allows intelegence and personality to play its part.

So if I could talk duck, I bet when my friend is standing on my foot eating bread, cake etc. do you think he would say to me, thanks for the food but because my species peck me and don't like me I really would be better off dead?

That little duck has a standard of living, and because it is disabled it has to work under harsher conditions then its fellow ducks. So because a creature has the ability to overcome some of its hardship by using its gift of personality instead of brute stregnth it should die.

If the human race agreed with you and every thing was measured in terms of physical power we would not still be living in caves we would be extinct.

Old Blindey may be just a crippled creature to you, but to me the simple duck has educated me in in a unique way. The moral for me is that the strongest do not survive, the nicest do.
17 months ago: "Fittest" is a general term that encompasses both the physical and the mental abilities of the creature in question. Humans are far from the physically fittest to be at the top of the heap, there are some insects that put us to shame, both physically and mentally (when considering they only figure out how to get their next meal).

Your compassion for the half blind duck is heart warming. But that duck now depends on you for it's meals, possibly it can't even figure out how to go eat what ducks are supposed to eat because you feed it bread and cake. You die or move away and it starves, what a nice thing you have done!!! Maybe you should read up on bears in American National Parks and how they don't know how to gather food and have to be taught where to look... That's what feeding the wildlife results in. Actually they know where to look, garbage cans, peoples kitchens, tourists picnics, hikers bellies.

Many species of wildlife are having problems surviving because bleeding hearts "protected" them or hunters wiped out their predators or their prey many decades ago. Humans are just now learning how stupid they were (humans not the critters) and it's going to cost billions to attempt to set things right. Might not be possible so say bye bye to some of those critters you are so quick to protect and hand feed.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago:
Out Of The Box --you are out of your mind!!!!

You are the biggest commie liar on this website.

You don't know how to use the PH to heal -- do you?

Do you know the PH of a cow or horse? It is as high as mine is!

It is in the purple range on the litmus papers -- which usually reads above 12

A very high PH is in all plant eating animals -- in the purple range above 10 to 14.

A lower PH is in all meat eating animals -- but it gets raised by the blood, marrow and bones of its prey which are alkaline.

You probably never even seen or have a 100% accurate PH FOOD CHART. All too many are inaccurate and useless for healing purposes.

You are challenging a healer and you do not qualify to kiss my shoe, when it comes to health and healing.

When litmus papers are used for healing they fail.

It is the body's green colored excrement that reads the state of health of the body.

Green excrement is a physiological reaction of eating 95 to 100 % alkaline foods.

I stand by my statements of having a very high PH of 14 -- based upon the equivalent color on the litmus papers.

But the sad fact is that commie Liberals always fail to survive well in life, since what they believe in is contra-survival.

Anti-Self Defense, Anti-Second Amendment, Anti-Constitution, Anti-Real Constitutional History, Anti-Family Values, Anti-Business, Pro-Big Government, Pro-New World Order,

PRO-CRIMINALS, ANTI-NATURAL NUTRIENTS,

Pro-Excessive Taxation, Pro-Excessive Federal Regulations, Pro-Abortion Or Anti-Life,

ANTI-REAL CAUSES OF ILLNESSES AND PRO-SYMPTOM CURES, ANTI-NATURAL DOCTORS AND PRO-SYMPTOM DOCTORS,

Anti-God, Anti-Religion, Pro-Godless Cults, Anti-Patriotism, Pro-Corruption, and Pro-Immorality, Pro-Perversion, Pro-Bestiality, Etc., And Etc..

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR HUMAN BEINGS TO ANSWER.

The Commie Bleeding Heart Liberal is the child molesters and rapists best friend and protector.

The conservative American is the child molesters and rapists worst enemy.

To protect your women and children, who would you vote for?

Who would you believe, trust and support?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: All I can think of to say is....WOW!!!

And a hearty LOL.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Reply to-Guess maybe our grain and other food stuffs are keeping you pretty well fed…..

You are right six, the burgers and the buns are on our shelves, the hot dogs in the tins, the processed cheese is in the chiller.

The beer's in the fridge.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: The study of class behavior is really much to do over nothing. You have people from all backgrounds that hunt and then those that abhor hunting, for either food or pleasure. Then you have your vegetarian types that accept hunting as preferable to mass raised slaughterhouse techniques.

I personally do not fit into any "class" structure, money means nothing to me except the freedom it affords to do what I want when I want. I hunt game for both pleasure and food. I am grateful to the animal I kill for the meat it has given me, and I rarely have anything mounted, unless it is unusual. Many times I hunt and track deer, only to let the animal go after I have it in my sights. It's the thrill of knowing how, and knowing that I can if I need to that caused me to hone my skills. I spent the greater part of three years hunting without a gun, trailing herds through the woods, tracking, and studying wildlife. Now I can go out and bag a deer within two hours of parking my truck.

To hunt is natural. To go to the supermarket and buy a plastic coated slab of meat is not. For a gazillionaire to put his foot on the neck of a large animal he has just killed is the same as Ugg making a necklace of the sabre toothed tigers teeth. It shows that he is a success, only with the gazillionaire, it shows that he is a success in making the money that it took to hire the guide, buy the fancy gun, fly out to wilderness, and wait while his paid servant hunted up the animal for him to shoot.

Hunting knows no class, only the fact that men have hunted in order to eat since the dawn of humanity. Modern society, and people living packed together like rats is devolving the human race into something nature never intended, as they are too dependent on external forces beyond their control to be able to survive on their own.
17 months ago: Well said! I wish I had your tracking skills and could get them if I felt the need, laziness infects me, something to do with deer traipsing through my yard at all hours of the day and night. Of course having a "yard" that is many acres wooded and grass helps a bit! Squirrel and rabbit are around too, but the coyotes tend to get most of the rabbits. I actually do not hunt, but will if hunger becomes a problem. The game is there and it is free for the taking.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Re-Now I can go out and bag a deer within two hours of parking my truck.

I am going to be careful in what I say in case you come and hunt me down. It takes me more time than two hours to shop at the weekends. I bet when you park your vehicle near the woods everything, including the insects take to the hills.

Yes we all know how important hunting was at the dawn of time, but we have evolved since then. In prehistoric times a caveman could roll a great big boulder up a hill. Nowdays we deliver it by lorry. Just because zillions of years ago we ran naked through the woods with a stick and a sharp stone we need to be able to do that now because we don't.

So nowdays it is more natural to go to a supermarket than it is to hunt. The supermarket is the kill, the hunt is work we do to to allow us to buy supermarket food.

As for money meaning nothing tell that to the guy who lives in a cardboard box.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Two very important points.
1) If I felt the need the need to hunt you down, I would not use force, I would use the finer methods developed by the human race that would be considered "socially acceptable". Character assassination is one technique you seem to be particularly fond of. Civilized people would research your entire life history and that of your friends and family, in the hope that there is something in there that could be turned against you. Simply spreading false information about you, or in extreme circumstances framing you for alleged wrongdoing would be effective. Ain't civilized society grand?

2) When I am hunting, nothing takes to the hills in fright, because they don't even know I am there. I am at peace with nature, as I realize my part in nature, and I don't try to imagine that I am anything other than just another small part in God's creation.

Now, a not so earth-shattering question. You are saying it is better to keep an animal penned up for its entire life, injected with hormones and antibiotics, herded through narrow shutes, then shot, hammered, or electrocuted to death, and his carcass carved up by men with knives and machines for your consumption, because you feel it is only natural to let someone else do your dirty work?

Have you ever seen footage of an animal being taken down by a predator? There is fear on the prey's face during the chase, but once captured, there is no more fear. Only resignation, because on a basic level, the animal understands the price of life. That is one thing that humans are forgetting, because they are disconnected from reality and never really consider where their food comes from.

When you buy that hamburger, or that hotdog, or that mutton, I want you to really take a moment to imagine the living face of the animal you are about to eat.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: ...tell that to the guy who lives in a cardboard box.

Been there, done that. Have you?
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
Content Removed by Paper Tiger
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: ..I respect..

Do you? Just my two cents but I think your post intended to convey the opposite.

..A lot of what I say is tongue in cheek..

I've been to known to use some tongue in cheek as well but just remember that people can't see the tongue in the cheek - they only see the words and not how you intended to say them.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Re respect

Yes I do respect people and their values. Sometimes I act before I think. I have deleted the last comment.

Thanks for the signpost
17 months ago: OOTB, think I'll try and stay on your side of the fence, at least when I can.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Thanks Six. means a lot coming from you.

PT, opinions, or rather, informed opinions are born of experience and circumstance.
I wasn't guessing at your particular set of circumstances, although you did volunteer a good bit of information. I was simply asking if you had experienced the corrugated lifestyle, and if not how would you know what he was thinking?
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
17 months ago: altrist said:

"Have you ever seen footage of an animal being taken down by a predator? There is fear on the prey's face during the chase, but once captured, there is no more fear. Only resignation, because on a basic level, the animal understands the price of life."

You are presuming and assuming that there is no longer any fear, in the prey when captured.

Where did you get these liberal ideas from?

The prey does not lose its fear because it understands the price of life-- that is BS.

Helplessness and hopelessness is NOT resignation.

It is the physical inability to get away that causes it to not be able to escape. If it could it would.

You are showing your liberal mentally again.

I hate the fact that men still kill for sport, but I can not curse them for doing so.

But to talk BS and apply liberal ideas to hunting is just too much.

The mental and social behavior of: A communist, socialist, liberal, progressive, marxist, Leninist, etc., or any combination of the these, is only understood, by knowing what they have in common mentally and emotionally and in what they want and believe in:

They are a danger to us by their most common beliefs:

Anti-Self Defense, Anti-Second Amendment, Anti-Constitution, Anti-Real Constitutional History, Anti-Family Values, Anti-Business, Pro-Big Government, Pro-New World Order, Pro-Criminals, Anti-Natural Nutrients, Pro-Excessive Taxation, Pro-Excessive Federal Regulations, Pro-Abortion Or Anti-Life, Anti-Real Causes Of Illnesses And Pro-Symptom Cures, Anti-Natural Doctors And Pro-Symptom Doctors, Anti-God, Anti-Religion, Pro-Godless Cults, Anti-Patriotism, Pro-Corruption, and Pro-Immorality, Pro-Perversion, Pro-Bestiality, Etc., And Etc..

When We Have Commie Liberals In Control, We Don't Need Plagues, We Have The 666 To Rule Us.

By knowing how their sick minds work. Can you trust them? Do they ever tell the truth?

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://movielocker.com/5232 -- installs the viewer

http://www.powercrossing.com/ plays the video on "What happened to the constitution?"

http://www.zshare.net/video/770741931126...

QUESTION OF THE DAY FOR HUMAN BEINGS TO ANSWER.

The Commie Bleeding Heart Liberal is the child molesters and rapists best friend and protector.

The conservative American is the child molesters and rapists worst enemy.

To protect your women and children, who would you vote for?

Who would you believe, trust and support?

to
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
17 months ago: Well, now, I said it, not Altruist.

And TRBH, you are well on your way to becoming the Westboro Baptist Church extension of RantRave.
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: If I may put in my two cents, I used to love guns, loved to use birds and wild animals for target, spent 5 years in the Royal Air force, when I came to Canada in 1968 I bought a rifle with a scope, I never missed, the last time I killed a bird that was sitting on a telephone wire, I was disgusted with myself, I promised that I would never own another rifle.

Have you ever observer an animal close up, without a doubt they have feelings. they feel pain, ever looked at the face of a mistreated cat or dog. I can feel their pain and it's not a good feeling.
17 months ago: No one said they didn't Ed. Some just make out like animals are equal to humans and have the same rights, or even more rights. Too bad the animals don't feel the same toward humans. To them, those that seek prey, we are just another meal on the run, a bit harder to catch, but not impossible.

The difference being, we as humans, can better appreciate the sacrifice each individual makes becoming that meal. Animals just look for another one with no regard to how many other lives may have been disrupted by the death of one.

As for your disenchantment with guns, maybe it has more to do with the wanton way you slaughtered "birds" for fun than it has to do with the guns themselves. As you said, you just killed them, no mention of dressing and eating.
Paper Tiger
Paper Tiger
England
17 months ago: Hi Canada

A least someone on this planet sees the issue as simple. To kill without the need to kill for whatever reason is wrong.

It is a special person who thinks they the right and the justification, and believes in that justification, to snuff out a life.

I am not that important in the scheme of things to make these momentous descisions. Thank God
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: We did eat some, but guilty as charged.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: So Ed, when you say grace, do you thank your god for the people who killed your food for you?

'Thou shalt not say Grace without also thanking unbelieving farmers, truck-drivers and shopkeepers that actually did the work required to get your food to the table...New Commandment #10 by *TWEET* *TWEET*'
Edward Lee
Edward Lee
Canada
17 months ago: Who is Grace, when did she kill food for me, I would like to thank her.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
17 months ago: no Ed, saying grace as in a prayer of thanks before a meal.
17 months ago: Mark, Ed might be losing it.
11 months ago: Paper Tiger is a serial killer!!!

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