Science & Technology

Rant

CERN Reactor to Prove Big Bang Hypothesis

Posted 22 months ago|27 comments|3,321 views
Written by
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
I've been following the progress of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN for years now. After many delays, and a few expensive accidents, they finally got it working. Today, for the first time, scientists have managed to collide protons at nearly the speed of light. The energy produced was astronomically high, considering the small amount of mass involved. Both streams combined issued a staggering 7 trillion electron volts of pure energy. Consider the fact that one molecule of uranium produces 1 million electron volts, and you can do the math. This process yields 7 million times more energy than our most potent energy source to date.

Energy, though, is not the primary focus of the project. The research is an attempt to study the smallest particles in the universe, the building blocks of protons, neutrons, and electrons, several forms existing only on paper so far. It is also hoped that the project will give us some insight into the origins of the universe, the mechanics that caused it to be, and processes now only vague shadows and science fiction. Time traveling, faster than light travel, wormholes, and dark matter are some of the mysteries hopeful scientists will try to bring to light.

Reading through scores of interviews with jubilant scientists and researchers, one commonality rang throughout. Comments like "Now we can see what it was like at the Big Bang!"

"These high energies mimic those which occurred at the Big Bang, the birth of the universe, so these experiments inform our understanding of the nature of the cosmos."

"The LHC aims to explore the nature of the universe just moments after the Big Bang and will increase our understanding of how it was created, and what it is made of and how it will evolve"

It seems to me that they just spent 10 billion dollars to support a hypothesis, rather than going about their research with an unprejudiced eye. They've already concluded how the universe was formed, and are now trying to get data to support their hypothesis. Haven't we been through all that already?
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markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: Good post until I got to the expected negative conclusion. As for a practical application, see:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...

In addition to potential spin offs in medicine, I read an article sometime ago about the potentials for improvements in nuclear power plants. Of course there's the potentials for future applications not yet known.

Also, your statement that they spent 10 billion dollars to support a hypothesis is an over-simplification to the extreme; download the official CERN FAQ guide and pay particular attention to the section titled, "What are the main goals of the LHC."

http://tinyurl.com/yejxsva
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: IN the article you provided, third paragraph:

"The collider, the world's largest particle accelerator, was designed to solve big mysteries in science, such as the nature of dark matter and what the universe was like just after the big bang."

My point is this: if there was no big bang, then they will mislead scientists for generations to come with flawed data sets, and misleading assumptions, tailored to fit their preconceived notions. This is also what is happening in the climate sciences arena.

CERN FAQ Guide, Page 6

"...Particle physics studies the tiniest particles in nature. Looking into the very small and fundamental, it also looks very far back into time, just a few moments after the big bang...."

then again, section 2 page 24

According to the current theories, the universe, born of the big bang, went through...yada yada yada."

They are persistent in keeping the big bang ideal, while trying to prove string theories, such as Higgs boson, which cannot coincide with the laws of relativity.

Anyway, I just thought they should keep an open mind when dealing with totally unexplored territory.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: ...Anyway, I just thought they should keep an open mind when dealing with totally unexplored territory...

ROFL - please OOTB, religionists telling Scientists to have an open mind is gut busting funny.

But for a moment, open your mind for a moment and consider the absolute double irony of the Big Bang model. Four centuries ago, the Catholic Church was infested with superstitious Bible literalists and they deemed Galileo a heretic for publishing Scientific observations that conflicted with the non-science of the Bible. Now in a most fitting irony and what may surprise superstitious bible literalists of today who don't bother to study secular history, it was a Catholic priest who developed the theory of the Big Bang:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lem...

But perhaps the greater irony is that Monsignor Lemaître's model of a created universe was initially panned by fellow Scientists as 'importing religious concepts into physics' and it conflicted with Albert Einstein's theory that the Universe had no beginning and was stable and unchanging.

But the support for Monsignor Lemaître's model is not a matter of religion, anti-religion, open mind or closed mind - it's additional Scientific discoveries such as cosmic background radiation in 1964 that lend credence to the model.

But unlike the putriyfing rigidity of religion, Science must continue to investigate and experimental to prove theories and they can be changed just as Einstein's theory of the Universe was eventually replaced by the model from the Catholic Priest. In fact, perhaps something that will be inadvertently discovered from the CERN experiments that will modify the big bang theory itself.

Finally, unlike religion which provides the same tangible benefit as a placebo, Science has proven itself and has delivered tangible goods - for example, that Computer that you're using to poo poo on Science was not a product of religious charlatans praying it up. Think about it and keep an open mind.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: I think you are looking at it from a very slanted perspective, and yes, I did know who is credited with the first proposal of the Big Bang hypothesis. The big bang fits more closely to Christian beliefs, by assuming that time is linear, and that matter and energy are infinite. The other religions, such as Buddhism, would fit more closely with the cyclical theories, which such genius/madmen as Steven Hawking subscribe to.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, science and religion are not at odds. Superstition? without a doubt. Science will inevitably prove the possibility of God's existence. Did you do do your homework on the close plate experiments yet? Have you read the article posted above?
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: " for example, that Computer that you're using to poo poo on Science was not a product of religious charlatans praying it up. Think about it and keep an open mind."

I never said it was a product of prayer. And I challenge you to quote me from any source where I said anything that could be remotely interpreted as anti-science. I am against junk science, meaning that true science doesn't try to fit its observations into a preconceived notion. You yourself have ranted no end about AGW scientists manipulating data to fit a convenient mold, and most of these physicists are apparently doing the same. They have no proof of a big bang, and are deadset on squeezing their new pegs into the appropriate holes.

Me? As a believer in an infinite God, I have no problem reconciling God with an infinite universe.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: ...The big bang fits more closely to Christian beliefs...

No, it fits more closely to Jewish beliefs that Christians adopted and only if read the Genesis story as purely symbolic. Any literal reading of Genesis fits the Bang Bang model like a square peg in a round hole.

I read your article and I don't accept your faulty notion that operating from a credible hypothesis is prejudiced or bad Science. As I said, "perhaps something that will be inadvertently discovered from the CERN experiments that will modify the big bang theory itself."

Superstition: any blindly accepted belief or notion. Notice the word "blindly" - that's the distinction between Scientific based belief and religious based belief.

Ergo, your superstitious statement...Science will inevitably prove the possibility of God's existence..

Science can't prove the supernatural - you might as well ask them to prove the existence of the tooth fairy. Even if they deduced an unexplained creative intelligence, they most certainly can't prove a particular religion's concept of god. That is of course unless this imaginary god of yours reveals itself supernaturally and that's never happened except in religious fables.

Of course they can and do debunk charlatan purveyors of supernatural trickery and of course religion itself can be Scientifically analyzed - it's scriptures, history, and claims.
Out Of The Box
Out Of The Box
 Moderator
22 months ago: "No, it fits more closely to Jewish beliefs that Christians adopted "

Can we say "splitting hairs"?

"Science can't prove the supernatural "

Science has already proved many things which were once considered supernatural. Just because you personally can't wrap your brain around certain concepts does not mean they are impossible.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
22 months ago: "what the universe was like just after the big bang."

In am going to give you guys a story of Scientology or the GOD RON's ideas of the BIG BANG.

One day I read a bulletin or page on this in class.

The Ronbots said their God RON"S soul was around for the big bang, as all scientology souls are more eternal than wogs are.

According to Ronbot history, they are of a race that has been around since time began.

That is why they make you sign a billion year contract.

The billion year contract, is no more that a year, in cosmic time.

So, you see that if you sign up, your Ronbot enslavement is only for one year.

This was thought of many trillions of years ago by their GOD.

Now you know the logic of their BILLION YEAR CONTRACT. It was made up by the GOD RON at the time of the big bang.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://freedom-school.com/law/prison_tre...

http://freedom-school.com/keating/how-a-...
22 months ago: TRBH, Have you flipped your lid? Just wondering, your ramblings are getting worse than mine.

OOTB, I don't think it will be a total loss, even if they don't prove or disprove the Big Bang, they will at least discover or verify a lot of sub-atomic particals and how they actually work. Might take years but at least they finally got the thing functioning. Maybe they will figure out fusion and we can do away with oil and coal as our main sources of energy.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
22 months ago: sixholdens

"TRBH, Have you flipped your lid? Just wondering, your ramblings are getting worse than mine."

If I were to follow your posts and comments around like you do with mine.

Don't you think I could find a lot to complain about your posts or comments?

What are you perfect? You never ramble or just use this website as a CHAT ROOM?!

I have seen many times where all you do is chat and chat away.

So, stop the chats and make logical, informative and educational posts and comments.

When I place a post or comment, I did not do so to get your approval, so just ignore me and I will do the same.

If I do comment on your posts, I won't be the one getting nasty first, but the one getting even.

We had a mini war for a while, are you inviting me to retaliate again.

I told you to put our little fight behind you and grow up.

So far I have not attacked you in this manner of yours.

If you want to get down and dirty with me, you will get upset and have another nervous breakdown again.

Is that what you want?

I suggest that we avoid each other, and make comments not designed to create a war from now on.

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://freedom-school.com/law/prison_tre...

http://freedom-school.com/keating/how-a-...

22 months ago: TRBH, Huh? Did you say something?
D J Wray
D J Wray
Australia
22 months ago: "Putrifying rigidity of religion"? Maybe one day science will discover something it is least expecting. People who believe science knows everything about the universe except for the first few moments after the big bang are likely to be the same people who believe that science knows everything about human evolution - which in fact changes almost daily.

D J Wray
Packaged Evolution: The Intelligent Universe
http://www.atotalawareness.com/documents...
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: I was reviewing your briefing D.J. and one slide piqued my interest:

"A planet reaches a significant milestone when a home-grown brain can host a space-traveler"

Can you elaborate on that?
22 months ago: Is there anybody out there who thinks that God is nuts? he would not do something like create a big bang to impress people when he only needs to do it quietly. What do you think he is some kind of braggert? He can take his pinky and wipe out the sun. you would be wize not to get him mad!!! If you think you have good argumints then bring it on!
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: Is there anybody out there who thinks that God is nuts?

If he needs a defender, yes.
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22 months ago: Oh, a wize guy, eh?
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: nyuk, nyuk, nyuk
22 months ago: I'd like to thump my bible over some heads. Bring it on...
22 months ago: Anybody want to argue with the truth? I'm hear to give it to you. Tell me about your little big bang theory and I'll decapitate it with logic. Come on...
22 months ago: Anybody want to argue with the truth? I'm hear to give it to you. Tell me about your little big bang theory and I'll decapitate it with logic. Come on...
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
22 months ago: Okay, come on - who is this? We ain't no April fools here? :)
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22 months ago: Looks like I scared that last guy away. Next...?
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22 months ago: Lest we begin to think we are hot stuff, consider for a moment the interactions that have gone on for billions of years, safely removed from this planet we call Earth. Rocks and stars have collided, smashed themselves to bits. Whole galaxies have done the same, here and there, a black hole, too. What happens when you smash one black hole into another?

This machine won't answer every question we can ask, but will help.
THE RONBOT HUNTER
THE RONBOT HUNTER
22 months ago: Terryeo

"Whole galaxies have done the same, here and there, a black hole, too. What happens when you smash one black hole into another?"

Knowing that a black hole acts negatively and in-flows or sucks in all matter, then when two connect, we have a reversal of polarity and they can explode by becoming positive or out-flow.

But what I really wanted to say, is that when two black hoes get together, we get a white hoe baby -- hahaha!!!

I tell it like it is, I pull no punches, tell no lies, and I am as I am

THE ONE AND ONLY RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

http://freedom-school.com/law/prison_tre...

http://freedom-school.com/keating/how-a-...
22 months ago: mark, anyone who believes in God and then thinks he needs a defender would really be "special". Just look at all the deleted posts from this guy! and he did the deleting!


I'd like to thump my bible over some heads. Bring it on...

Anybody want to argue with the truth? I'm hear to give it to you. Tell me about your little big bang theory and I'll decapitate it with logic. Come on...

(This one eight times)
Looks like I scared that last guy away. Next...?


No, GD, you haven't even frightened the meekest of us, not that there are any pantywaists around here that you could.

GD, since you joined on April Fools Day, I can only assume that you are joking about your mission to prove the existence of the great imaginary being who if you truly believe in, doesn't need nor ask for your assistance. And please, PLEASE learn to spell when you are talking about matters of great import to people of faith. PREY and SOLE are not the correct spelling unless you are attempting to capture a fish or the bottom of someone's shoe, pray and soul mean much more to some. And if you are going to be somewhere and not be listening to them, it's "here". My spelling is not always correct either, but I do try and if you catch me misspelling a word, feel free to mock me like others try to do.

GD, Welcome to the fray, please try to be more civil than others who make useless threats at the slightest provocation and claim superiority over the rest of us with nothing but their own words to back their claim up with.
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4 months ago: Box It was on AOL this morning that researchers have invented a device found a way to bend light creating an object to become invisible. They say it is similar to the mirage affect created on the desert.
This is done by use of nano tubes. Sheets of carbon nano tubes which conduct and transfer heat quickly are used.
Makes objects disappear from view created by a mirage affect. Optical phenomenon to bend light to create an image that isn't there. Next new thing in espionage.

4 months ago: It's hard to explain the experiment done at the University of Texas at Dallas without invoking Harry Potter and his invisibility cloak — but after you look at the video above, you'll probably agree it's 1) mesmerizing and 2) more realistic than the movie. It's not a special effect. It's an experiment in photothermal deflection ("the mirage effect" to physicists), and it was done with nanotechnology.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2...

By Ned Potter
Oct 5, 2011 12:07pmHarry Potter, Stand Back: Invisibility Effect Created in It's hard to explain the experiment done at the University of Texas at Dallas without invoking Harry Potter and his invisibility cloak — but after you look at the video above, you'll probably agree it's 1) mesmerizing and 2) more realistic than the movie. It's not a special effect. It's an experiment in photothermal deflection ("the mirage effect" to physicists), and it was done with nanotechnology.

You know how, if you're driving down a highway in Florida or Arizona on a sunny summer day, the road far ahead can look wet as it shimmers in the heat? That mirage is created by photothermal deflection — the heat is bending the light rays, creating the impression that there's a puddle up ahead.
Pretty weird, but it's a natural effect — and you can't exactly turn it on or off.

In the lab, Ali Aliev and his colleagues did nature one better. They took carbon nanotubes — cylindrical molecules with a remarkable ability to conduct heat — and warmed them electrically. In a container of water, they were able to bend the light around them, making the sheet of material "disappear." By turning the heat on and off, they could make the sheet reappear … and disappear … and reappear … and disappear again.

They say life imitates art, and in this case, science does too. Reporting in the journal Nanotechnology, Aliev and his co-authors say, "The remarkable performance of nanotube sheets suggests possible applications as photo-deflectors and for switchable invisibility cloaks

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