START A RANT
SIGN UP / SIGN IN
GET PAID TO POST
FOLLOW ON TWITTER
START A RAVE
MY PROFILE
CONTACT US
ABOUT US
News & Politics

Rant

Bogus complaint from the Christian Right

Posted 30 months ago|42 comments|612 views
Written by
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
I will keep this one short. This man was fired for breaking a rule. It happened to be a rule about not allowing religious expression at work. He broke the rules, was told several times to change the pin but did not and was subsequently fired. The problem is that he was reading the Bible and had an "In God we Trust" pin on...and heaven forbid we fire Christians for breaking the rule. The part that is upsetting to me is that if he had been fired for reading the Qur'an it would not have even been mentioned once (or if it was it would be a headline along these lines "Praise Home Depot because they fired that terrible Muslim terrorist").

Bottom Line--He broke a rule and was fired, it happens every day.
EMAIL|FLAG THIS POST
COMMENTS
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: The problem is PH if they wanted to enforce the rules then they should have told him to remove the pin once he put it on. Not wait a year and then decided becuase he brought a bible to work to all of sudden enforce the rules.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: We all know why rules like this get set. It is so employees don't wear vular t-shirts and pins..not to ban people from wearing flag pins on their clothing.
30 months ago: perfect.

You reckon if he'd been reading the Quran they would have said anything?
30 months ago: No they would have never said anything to a Muslim cause they would not want to offend him. But offending Christians is not a problem.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "The problem is that he was reading the Bible"

What really disturbs me about your distorted views is he was not reading his Bible on the clock, he was reading it on his breaks and lunch. So what are we now going to make it a law that reading the Bible is illegal? Your hatred is ripe..you certainly do not hide it either..but it takes many to make the world go round, no matter how much hate they spread.
Colorado
Colorado
Westcliffe, CO
30 months ago: I believe in freedom of religion, but if that is conflicting at the work place, it is the business's preference to fire that person.
TheLegendTomWing
TheLegendTomWing
 Administrator
 Philadelphia, PA
30 months ago: Actually, I'll bet there would have been WAY WAY WAY more news coverage if the worker had been muslim (before fort hood, obviously). Persecuting minorities seems to be a favorite topic in the more leftist news media. A company can't tell you what you can and can't do on a break, that's the whole point of a break!
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: They can tell you what you can and cannot do on break if you do it on THEIR property...which he was doing...he could have chosen to read in his car...but he instead chose to do it on Home Depots property, where other employees were exposed to it. He was warned several times and then fired. Its a problem because he is Christian.

The coverage would have been praise for Home Depot if they fired a Muslim who was reading because they are all terrorists right???

Please...this is simply ridiculous. He broke a rule and was fired.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: Also the article doesn't mention how many times he was offered a replacement button before the Bible thing happened. Further, perhaps someone complained for the first time (these big box stores constantly hire new people) and then they started taking action.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: He was fired for the pin not for reading his Bible or am I missing something here?
30 months ago: I concur with Tom. The ACLU would be all over it looking for money. This was at WalMart, right?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: He was fired after he started reading the bible and then was told that he would have to stop that and the button needed to be taken off. He was offered a different button with a similar message but refused to wear it. He was told several times he was breaking the rules and was then fired. It is completely normal business practice, an employee breaks a rule, is warned several times to change the behavior and then, if that doesn't happen, then the employee is fired. This guy and the people who are from the civil rights groups that are complaining are claiming it is because of the religious symbols, but in reality it had nothing to do with the exact message. If he had a button that said "Get F*!ked" he would have been fired all the same.
30 months ago: My Bad! Home Depot.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Home-Depot-Holy-War-65982167.html

Though Keezer, 20, wore the pin to work for over a year and a half, he said the button brouhaha didn't begin until he brought a bible to work to read during lunch breaks.

So you let them wear a pin for a year or so the decide it needs to come off when they start reading the Bible on personal time?
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "He was fired after he started reading the bible and then was told that he would have to stop"

My point is you are distorting this PH he was never told he could not read the bible.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: Maybe you wish that happened but the fact is it did not happen that way he was fired becuase of the pin and the pin only..
30 months ago: Let's check the timeline Scot.

Wears pin (same pin) for a year and a half without any Management warnings.

Brings Bible to work and reads it during Lunch break.

Hummmm.

Was told to remove the pin after reading the Bible on personal time. Or ar you still on company time when you clock-out? I wonder if he should sue for lost wages since the company feels the need to regulate his personal time.
30 months ago: Fine Perfect.

I agree (generally) anyone should be able to be fired for any reason or no reason at all. That's freedom. I agree.

But to say this circumstance had nothing to do with him being a Christian is utter and complete Hogwash. You know better.
30 months ago: What if he wore his company uniform to bed and dreamed. Is the "Dream Police" next on the Home Depot anti-freedom list? If he wore his uniform to bed would Home Depot consider him "on-duty" and pay him for that restricted time also? I'm wondering if they will say "he punched out" so we have no jurisdiction? Hey, I wonder if he "punched-out" while on lunch break?
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: No I agree with you guys TCG that him reading the Bible did play a role in it but I am clarifying that he was not told he could not read his bible. You can not get fired for reading your Bible on your break or lunch. Which PH is acting like you can. That is the lie I am trying to clear up.
30 months ago: Scot we are good buddy.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: You can be fired for reading the bible, if he was reading it on Home Depot property and asked not to (Which he admits he was reading it inside the break room...which is company property).

Moving on...perhaps nobody noticed the pin until that day. Perhaps another employee complained about it. Or perhaps he was told and the article didn't mention the previous warnings.

More importantly is that Home Depot is a private, non-governmental company, that is not subject to the First Amendment. They can fire people for whatever they want, in this case breaking a rule that was clearly articulated to him (it doesn't matter that it was a year after the button was worn, it matters that he made the choice to ignore the rule after it was made clear to him)

scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "They can fire people for whatever they want, in this case breaking a rule that was clearly articulated to him (it doesn't matter that it was a year after the button was worn, it matters that he made the choice to ignore the rule after it was made clear to him)"

Well that is where your wrong they have to make a rule about not bringing the bible into work to read on your break and lunch in order for the company to write you up legitimately for it. If they do fire you for just reading the bible you simply goto the labor board and report it. I never worked at a store that said you can only read certain things on break and lunches becuase that would be absolutely ridiculous.

But you know all this PH your just having a wishful thinking dream. Grow up man.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: It probably panned out something like this.. some busybody employee instead of doing their job had a gripe with him made a big stink of it and management was forced to make him take his pin off, he didn't abide by it and was wrote up. I seen all this crap at Walmart, I had to deal with all the **** stirrers because I was a manager their. Never fails you get some lazy worker that does anything to get out of working and runs around and stirs up crap like this.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: yes, there would have to be a rule...and many of my past employers had rules against bringing religious texts into the break room. And maybe it wasn't a busy body...maybe it was a customer, or an employee that wasn't Christian. He broke a rule, he has no chance in hell of getting anything out of it in terms of a job or settlement because he was legally fired.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
30 months ago: Now this is a cause that the Rebiblicans needs to take up! After all, jamming 'god' down your throat is part of the country's spiritual heritage and goes all the way back to 1776, ERRR the 1950's when the Christocrats and Rebibilicans put "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and made "In God We Trust" the official motto of the USA.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: Mark Mark how is this jamming God down your throat? I could see if he setup a podium and started preaching in the lunch room but that is just ridiculous and did not happen.

Maybe his pin was a talking pin? Maybe his pin was preaching God Bless America or maybe it recited John 3:16? Just as ridiculous as the podium analogy.

Are you forced to look at someones pin when you goto Walmart and do you just go their to shop? I don't care what someone wears they could be wearing a pair of undies on there head and I would not notice! But somehow in this Great Nation we have a group of busy bodies so worried about what others are doing and wearing instead of doing what they came there to do.

"bringing religious texts into the break room."

Well if that was a rule I could see that as a lawsuit waiting to happen. I would be more inclined to think the company is worried about avoiding these type of mainstream media issues. First I heard of it!
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "he has no chance in hell of getting anything out of it in terms of a job or settlement because he was legally fired."

If he had no chance in hell his lawyer he retained would have told him that upfront but that is just not the case here. Lawyers review your case before they take it.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
30 months ago: Scot,

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and while we only know what the media is reporting on this particular case, I've seen countless cases of religious zealots using their job as a platform to proselytize and weaving in a Jesus sales pitch in at every inappropriate moment.

With public contempt, disrespect, and intolerance for other religions practiced by their co-workers (and the non-religious), their pasted on 'god loves you' smiles suddenly turn upside down when they appropriately get called on the carpet. Dollars to donuts, the pin is just the tip of the iceberg in this case.

Hiring a lawyer eh, is that what Jesus would do?
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: No he wouldn't becuase he is the ultimate Judge and Jury.

It would be like if a house is burning down and a man was kneeling praying for God to rescue him. The fireman comes in to rescue the man and says "lets go", the praying man says "no God will rescue me".

Moral of the story is, God gives us common sense just some people choose not to use it.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: Ok, first of all you can sue anyone but you won't win. If you find a judge that is willing to tell a private business that it is subject to the first amendment then good for you...but in the REAL world, private business are not subject to religious discrimination laws.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: Please tell me again how a private business is not subject to religious discrimination laws.

Maybe you should read your Constitution PH....

"Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers with at least 15 employees, as well as employment agencies and unions, from discriminating in employment based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin. It also prohibits retaliation against persons who complain of discrimination or participate in an EEO investigation. With respect to religion, Title VII prohibits:

treating applicants or employees differently based on their religious beliefs or practices – or lack thereof – in any aspect of employment, including recruitment, hiring, assignments, discipline, promotion, and benefits (disparate treatment);
subjecting employees to harassment because of their religious beliefs or practices – or lack thereof – or because of the religious practices or beliefs of people with whom they associate (e.g., relatives, friends, etc.);
denying a requested reasonable accommodation of an applicant’s or employee’s sincerely held religious beliefs or practices – or lack thereof – if an accommodation will not impose more than a de minimis cost or burden on business operations; 1 and,
retaliating against an applicant or employee who has engaged in protected activity, including participation (e.g., filing an EEO charge or testifying as a witness in someone else’s EEO matter), or opposition to religious discrimination (e.g., complaining to human resources department about alleged religious discrimination"
30 months ago: Nice rebuttal.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: You cannot discriminate on religion as a hiring practice...but since we are talking about somebody getting FIRED perhaps you should read up on your laws.

You can be fired for ANYTHING from a private company, so long as it was made clear to the employee that it was against the rules of the company before they were fired.

This man was told he was breaking the rules of the company, he did not change and was fired. 100% legal, 100% correct on the part of Home Depot.
markbyrn
markbyrn
 Moderator
30 months ago: Perfect,
...You cannot discriminate on religion as a hiring practice...but since we are talking about somebody getting FIRED perhaps you should read up on your laws...

Not sure where you're getting your information, but you're not correct:

With respect to discrimination (including religious), "The law forbids discrimination when it comes to any aspect of employment, including hiring, firing, pay, job assignments, promotions, layoff, training, fringe benefits, and any other term or condition of employment." See:


http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm


And the federal law applies to private employers not just government employment:

If a complaint against a business (or some other private employer) involves race, color, national origin, sex, religion, or disability, the business is covered by the laws we (the EEOC) enforce if it has 15 or more employees who worked for the employer for at least twenty calendar weeks (in this year or last)..It is also important to keep in mind that, if an employer is not covered by the laws we enforce, the employer still may be covered by a state or local anti-discrimination law. If it is, we can refer you to the state or local agency that enforces that law. See:


http://www.eeoc.gov/employers/coverage_private.cfm

That said, I don't think particular case falls under the religious discrimination law pertaining to Religious Accommodation/Dress & Grooming Policies as described in the first link above. In fact, it's quite possibly that the employee engaged in religious discrimination towards his co-workers.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: I did not articulate what I was trying to say well (4am was a bad choice of time). You are correct, you cannot be fired for being Christian, but you can be fired for wearing a Christian symbol on a button if it is against the rules of the company. Home Depot has a rule that does not allow for people to wear religious symbols on their vests, he did and was fired. This was perfectly legal because he was not fired for BEING Christian but breaking a rule about wearing religious items at work.
30 months ago: So now WORDS - "In God We Trust" is considered a religious symbol? Does Home Depot except U.S. currency? Pull out a dollar bill and look for the words - "In God We Trust".
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: Right, but they didn't tell him he was not allowed to have a dollar bill on his vest...they did however tell him he was not allowed to have pins that have a religious theme.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "they did however tell him he was not allowed to have pins that have a religious theme."

Here again you are twisting the facts to fit your arguement..tired of pointing it out..you can get fired for weearing a non-company pin period...like I keep saying your hate for Christians has blinded your ability to even think straight when it comes to this issue. It does not matter what it says on it.

Here is my whole point the company is liable becuase they failed to enforce their rules. A company can not setup rules then decide when to enforce them or who to enforce them on. They have to enforce them all the time and to everyone. It took them a year and half before they said something about his pin. That means seeings how they did not enforce the rules from the get go they are fully liable. I could careless what was on his pin.

But then the judge will look at the fact that when he started bringing his bible into work then they decided to enforce the rules..he will rule whether or not it was or was not religious discrimination. Depending on what witnesses say it could be that they did discriminate against him.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: I dealt with most of this in High school and read many cases on religious discrimination. Religious discrimination is not cut and dry.

Case in point we had many after school clubs in our school. I consulted with a lawyer. I gathered every religious court case that was won in the supreme court printed them out and went before the school board. A month later we started the first Christian Youth Group in our High School. We had all the accommodations and rights of the other after school Groups. The fact is the laws are there for a reason. Simply put, people need to learn how to exercise their rights.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
30 months ago: I don't know why you think I hate anybody but that really isn't important.

I don't care what the button said, he broke the rules and that is all there is to it. Home Depot is not liable because it does not matter how long they took to tell him about the rules, what does matter is that he was told several times. Home Depot handled the case like any company is required to do. They warned him several times and then suspended him and then fired him. This is standard procedure for a company to fire people. The fact that they didn't enforce the rule until then doesn't matter. Perhaps somebody complained about the rule being broken, or maybe they just didn't notice, but it really doesn't matter.

As for your school, I am imagining that it was a public school. If this is the case it changes things drastically because public schools have different standards they must follow because they are government owned. I am not sure how you having a Christian Youth Group after school is at all related. I know of plenty of public schools with such groups. All that is necessary is that the school does not endorse nor require anybody to become a member. They cannot promote any religious group but that is totally different than what PRIVATE companies are required to do.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "I am not sure how you having a Christian Youth Group after school is at all related."

It means I am not ignorant when debating and have read the laws dealing with religion in schools and the workplace.
scotmanster
scotmanster
30 months ago: "In fact, it's quite possibly that the employee engaged in religious discrimination towards his co-workers."

I could see this happening but at the same time Christians can by law witness to people at work on their breaks and lunch as long as it does not cause the employer "undue hardship". So because they are witnessing on lunch and breaks it can not possibly cause "undue hardship" to the employer. Unless they are disturbing employees on the clock.

In order for the Christian to be covered under the law they would have to state to the employer in a form letter or by word of mouth that they currently exercise a certain faith that requires them to witness to others, read the Bible and Praying. The employer would then be required by law to allow them to practice their faith. As long as it does not cause "undue hardship" to the employer and employees. In order for it not to cause "undue hardship" the Christian in this case can practice their faith on company grounds during breaks and lunches. That means praying , witnessing or reading the Bible.

I am not going to go down the list and recite every state and federal court case that was won in favor of people practicing their religion at work. All of the above is fact and law.

Post a Comment
Sign in or sign up to post a comment.
All Categories | Arts & Entertainment  |  Culture & Lifestyle  |  Economy  |  Food  |  Health  |  News & Politics  |  Offbeat  |  People  |  Products  |  Science & Technology  |  Sports  |  Travel

Frequently Asked Questions  |  Community Guidelines  |  Editorial Reviews  |  Get Paid to Post  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Use  |  Contact Us  |  Sitemap  |  Report Spam/Abuse

©2012 RantRave