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Rant

A History of Violence.

Posted 26 months ago|23 comments|787 views
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House Majority leader Steny Hoyer is speaking out against alleged threats of violence being made against at least 10 house Democrats as they get ready to go back to their districts before Easter. He has demanded, of course, that the Republican leaders openly condemn this violence, as if the people committing such acts wouldn't see through the political chivalry.

Minority Leader John Boehner has condemned the acts and added that threats of violence are not the American way. He said instead we need to make our voices heard and register people to vote, call our congressmen or volunteer on a political campaign in order to get our voices heard.

With all due respect to Mr. Boehner; violence is the American way. Does he not remember the Boston Tea Party? Does he not remember the American Revolution? It was through violence that we won our independence against the tyrannical government of the King of England. It was through violence that the North and South sought to have their political views upheld over the others. It was America that invented the most destructive device in human history, and it was America that used it on Hiroshima and Nagasaki effectively committing one of the most violent acts in human history.

We are a nation of violence. Our technological and industrial dominance over the last century has not changed that, the opposite, it has simply given us bigger and better and more sophisticated ways of which to commit violence.

And again, with all due respect to Mr. Boehner the Americans have been trying to make their voices heard and the government refuses to listen. Tell the residents of New Jersey that their voices are being heard. Tell the residents of Massachusetts that their voices are being heard. Tell the protesters outside of the Capital that their voices are being heard. Tell the Town Hall attendees that their voices are being heard. Tell the Americans who called the capital last week to the tune of 100 thousand calls per hour that their voices are being heard.

The American people are screaming at the top of their lungs at their government and they are being ignored!

While I too do not promote violence against a fellow human being, let's not be so naive into thinking that this government may be pushing it's citizens a bit to hard, and let's not be fooled into thinking that given the right circumstances the government could be creating it's very own recipe for disaster.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
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26 months ago: Uh. Stay in D.C.
Billyberoo
Billyberoo
Cedar Park, TX
26 months ago: i agree 110%. Especially the last sentence.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

That train is about 100 years long.
but you didn't include:
1. He (Government) has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. (IRS, HealthCare reform, Dept of _____________)

2. For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent (the Fed's inflatrionary monetary policy)

3. He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures. (Dennis Kucinich)

4. For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments (17th Amend., Ignoring 9th and 10th Amend, using the Commerce, and General Welfare clauses to render state governments powerless)
26 months ago: Think about it.

First, some of us have a family to feed.

Second, the shoe may be on the other foot later.

Wait till Sarah Palin gives her state of the union speech in a couple of years. You reckon any of the socialists might see fit to yell something at her.

26 months ago: Red, you forgot the families we feed that are sitting back and laughing at us for working our butts off.
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: Sarah Palin? Really, that would be a dream come true for the Democrats. She runs they beat her 45 states to 5.
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
26 months ago: When Obama was elected he was elected with a mandate for change. Then when he does what he is elected for the right starts cleaning their guns.

67% of the public wanted health care with either single payer or a public option. After a huge propaganda effort by the right and a summer of angry tea parties that percentage dropped to 52%

Many of those hundreds of thousands of emails and people demanding that their voices be heard were demanding that the health care reform go farther to the left.

I am glad that despite the intimidation and the threats that the Congress was courageous enough to do what was right for the people, and the country, and refused to knuckle under to the bullying of the right.

There was similar outrageous behavior from the right when Medicare was created, but this time the rudeness and outrageous lack of the respect for the office of the Commander in Chief and members of Congress is truly juvenile.

Grow up and stop acting like a spoiled 3rd grader.
26 months ago: Al.

I hope you're keeping all these posts somewhere.

You aught to write a book, and call it "My History".

"Mandate for change" my butt!

I was waiting for you to say the right were the bullies.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/031...

Al, this is further proof that you rewrite history. What grade are you in?
Perfect Horizon
Perfect Horizon
Chicago, IL
26 months ago: "proof that you rewrite history"

Sort of like you when you and your Christian Conservative friends try to taint our history by claiming that this is a "Christian Country founded on Christian beliefs"
26 months ago: Al - Obama was also elected to bring transparency to Washington, to end partisanship, stop backroom deals...get rid of the lobbyists...and so on.

67% percent of the people wanted healthcare reform, but not what this bill offers. 67% of the people do not want their taxes raised, 3000 new IRS agents to do monthly audits of businesses books. 67% of the people did not want Union employees to get special deals that non union Americans will not qualify for and get taxed on. 67% of Americans did not want to be told by their government that they have to purchase something or get fined. 67% of Americans do not want to see their premiums sjy rocket because the insurance companies are going to pass the government tax increases on to us.

That's a primer.

Oh...and the lucky people that have pre-existing conditions...sure, they can't be denied insurance now, but there is nothing in this bill that states insurance companies can't charge huge amounts for those policies.

This law is nothing more than a sham to gain control of peoples lives. That is all...but the proof is in the pudding. We'll see where we are 10 years from now...
26 months ago: On the topic of violence...

In our war for independence, the country threw off shackles of control from another country, and stopped being a colony of that country. We stopped being British, and started being American.

If being American is so terrible now, so painful, that you must resort to violently overthrowing the democratically-elected government the way our forefathers overcame England's imperial government, then so be it. But the moment you raise arms, you stop being American, and you relinquish all claims to patriotism, in much the same way that American patriots stopped being British and relinquished all claims to British patriotism.

Be very clear on what you are advocating here: A violent overthrowing of a democratically-elected government. That makes you secessionists, rejecting the rule of this country's laws.
26 months ago: Heynnnnnnn.

As long as that goes both ways I absolutely agree.

Your wacko's are shooting at and threatening republicans too.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/...

I wish somebody would splain that to Al.
26 months ago: Oh, I condemn that absolutely. I'd like to see the police report on the incident, if there really was one, but if there is some leftist gun nut (heh) going around shooting up Republican offices, that lowlife scumbag needs to rot in prison.

Within the last year, insane Republicans have made death threats, cut propane gas lines, vandalized Democratic offices, and shot George Tiller to death. Will you reject the repeated, endless stream of violent rhetoric and violent acts from frustrated Republicans who cannot stand that the majority of the country disagrees with them, and reject the outcomes of democratic elections?
26 months ago: And... Boom. It's over. Cantor lied. Talking Points Memo got a hold of the Richmond police report and statement: http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...

Money quote: "A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds. There was no other damage to the room, which is used occasionally for meetings by the congressman."

Try aiming a bullet by firing it into the air and guessing where it will land some time. This was a random act of vandalism, if intentional at all. Maybe some gun nut just decided he'd enjoy firing a few rounds off, unaware that it's dangerous to do that because the bullet has to land somewhere.

Compare and contrast this to the obvious and directed violence and threats against Democrats. Eric Cantor ought to be ashamed of himself.
26 months ago: And what if that Democratically elected government is not obeying its own laws? What then? Who's the patriot? The ones that stands up and rejects it, or the one that bends over and takes it?

As there is no law that states it is illegal for a state to secede from the union, or talk about it for that matter I'm a little unclear how I am "rejecting the rule of law".
26 months ago: "And what if that Democratically elected government is not obeying its own laws? What then? Who's the patriot?"

Name a law that the democratically-elected government, one that has a mandate for change from the electorate, is not obeying? Be specific.

"The ones that stands up and rejects it, or the one that bends over and takes it?"

We have an American system for standing up and rejecting things. We engage in this system every two years. It's called democracy. If you strongly feel the current government needs to go, get people registered to vote, volunteer to drive people to the polls, and so on. Again, if this system isn't suitable for you, fine. Attempt a revolution. But know at that point that you have given up on America, and are no longer an American.

"As there is no law that states it is illegal for a state to secede from the union, or talk about it for that matter I'm a little unclear how I am 'rejecting the rule of law'."

I do believe we had a bit of a kerfuffle over just that question in the 1800s. In any event, of course secession is the rejection of the rule of law. You're rejecting the right of the United States of America to impose its laws on you, and establishing your own country and your own rules. That's not to say that secession is itself illegal -- I never said it was, and in fact, the Supreme Court ruled in 1869 that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession. But make no mistake, if you were to do that, you would no longer be an American.

Try thinking of it this way. History treats Benedict Arnold as a traitor, and George Washington as a patriot. But if American secession hadn't happened, today we would regard Benedict Arnold as a hero, and George Washington as a traitor to crown and country, because win or lose, Washington gave up his British citizenship when he decided to fight British rule.
26 months ago: In terms of Health Care reform I think that the states that are suing on the grounds that the Feds have no right at all to mandate that a private citizen purchase a service simply for being alive and fining them if they do not is are absolutely right. And that would be my First biggest gripe.

My Second, and I do not know if it is legal or not, would be the Presidents back room deal with the unions over health care. Giving one sector of Americans a break on a tax simply because they are an organized union and otherwise no different than their non-unionized counterparts is nothing more than a political bribe.

And speaking of bribes there are whispering all over about potential bribes of various people that have taken place in order to get them to vote the White House's way, or in the case of PA Rep Joe Sestak, offered a federal job in exchange for dropping out of the primary.
26 months ago: "In terms of Health Care reform I think that the states that are suing on the grounds that the Feds have no right at all to mandate that a private citizen purchase a service simply for being alive and fining them if they do not is are absolutely right. And that would be my First biggest gripe."

And they will lose that lawsuit. No one likes to talk about taxes, but I guarantee you this will be how it's defended in court: The DoJ will make the argument that this amounts to a tax rebate if you buy insurance. Case closed.

As for your second complaint, yes it's perfectly legal, and we give tax breaks for various purposes and reasons all the time. See above.

Your third complaint is a conspiracy theory, not a law you can name that Democrats have broken. Let me ask you this: If you are unable to name a law that you believe Democrats in the House and Senate are failing to obey, what is your rationale for overthrowing them? Is it just that you do not like what they're doing?
26 months ago: And they will lose that lawsuit. No one likes to talk about taxes, but I guarantee you this will be how it's defended in court: The DoJ will make the argument that this amounts to a tax rebate if you buy insurance. Case closed.

I doubt that the case will be that simple. The government might have been able to make a case had they deregulated the insurance companies and allowed them to operate in multiple states. Then they would have had a shot in stating that they were controlling interstate commerce. Saying you are getting a rebate by buying will not fly, because they aren't giving a rebate, they are extracting a fine above and beyond what the individual would have otherwise paid in taxes.

As for my second complaint...you are right, that was not bribery the White House, it was extortion by the SEIU and other big Unions, and Obama caved. How nice for them. A true leader would have said it's not right to benefit one group of citizens over another simply because of who they work for, so I will either give it to all of them, or remove that provision all together.

And it's only a conspiracy theory because the White House just refuses to address the accusations. If in fact special investigations are approved and we get to see for ourselves what has taken place, we can then make a decision.

26 months ago: Arrgghh! So many issues to work on all in one rant!

Violence is the American way.... Violence against governments or idealologies, yes, individuals or groups of citizens, no. Violence is a tool to be used carefully, not as a method to cause someone to submit to your views.

Sometimes those yelling the loudest are not the ones who should be listened to, they just may be the biggest bullies in the front row. Many time those in the biggest hurry to get something their way is so they can cover-up or protect something they aren't willing to part with, usually money or the hope of getting money or keeping it. As mentioned, behind closed door union meetings that favor those in the unions.......

There are a lot of wolves howling at the door and a lot are dressed up in sheep's clothing, so beware.
26 months ago: Very true SixHoldens. I like your points...
Altruist
Altruist
Eugene, OR
26 months ago: Harshaw you do have a lot of good points about Obama not meeting the expectations of We did want single payer and total transparency and the end of lobbying, and the back room deals are very troubling. However you need to realize that things have improved 1000% better than when Bush (or Cheney) ran things. We now know everyone that Obama meets with and they did find those millions of emails that Cheney "lost". Lobbyists do have more restrictions The democrats are trying to eliminate all earmarks and they're trying to make a lot of other changes. The House has a backlog of 291 bills that the Senate hasn't acted on because the Republicans are doing everything they can to obstruct any progress.

You have to admit that our government is designed to resist change, and yes Obama is a pragmatist and has knuckled under to a lot of special interests. Some would simply call that trying to be a centrist compromising and trying without success to get bipartisanship.

Yet even though Obama hasn't made as many changes as everyone wanted quickly enough the right still demonizes him for being a socialist. Total nonsense!
Nothing he has done is even remotely close to socialism!

And HeyNoninoni is absolutely right. Advocating violence totally wrong. It is a very big thing and also immensely stupid on a national forum like this. You will probably be hearing strange clicks on your phones from now on.
Siempre Solo
Siempre Solo
Auburn, NY
26 months ago: A government by the people and for the people and of the people will ALWAYS give the people what they want. If you haven't gotten what you want then perhaps you are not with the people but against it. Hmm? Something to think about right?

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